Sean Anthony: The Historical Muhammad, Crucifixion, and the Arab Conquests
In this interview I speak with friend and fellow scholar of Islamic Studies, Dr. Sean Anthony. Dr. Anthony is Professor of Near Eastern Languages and Cultures at The Ohio State University. Prior to this he was an Andrew Mellon Fellow at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton NJ and an Assistant Professor in the Department of History at the University of Oregon. Dr. Anthony got his A.M. and Ph.D. from the University of Chicago in Near Eastern Languages and Cultures, specializing in Islamic Thought and Early Islamic History. He is the author of many academic articles and books, his most recent book "Muhammad and the Empires of Faith" has already become quite popular within Islamic Studies.
In this talk we discuss Sean's new book as well as the materials for the study of early Islamic history, and Muhammad himself. We talk about how Roman crucifixion remained as a practice into late antiquity and with the medieval Arab empires and how all of this sheds light on the Qur'an and Early Islam.
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Great guest and excellent topic!
You need to get the Ghost 👻 of Mythvision to prepare an interview with Gabriel Said Reynolds on your channel Derek.
@@inquisitivemind007 that's a great idea, he's a scholar of great calibre. Did you see on academia the Paul Ellis Jerusalem theory get trashed?
@@thepennydreadful95 May I ask you to clarify that comment? Who do you think 'trashed' my thesis and how do you reach that conclusion?
@@paulellis5101 A crude yet apt description. The paper presents its own evidence in its own paradigm. It does not account for evidence that is in direct opposition. It's therefore insufficient as broader historical understanding.
@@thepennydreadful95 But in what sense did it 'get trashed'?
This channel is just such a rich treat. I've been teaching myself the history of Islam for years now and these conversations are incredibly value as I struggle to orient myself in the field. My graduate work was in early medieval history, in particular, Christianity (dissertation was on the role of ritual in conversion and christianization). And I'm currently teaching a religion in history course at a prep school and have been trying to develop a command of the material to do Islam justice. It's not easy to replicate the graduate school experience necessary to do that but this channel certainly helps in terms of basic orientation to the field. And the conversations are just so cool! I'd love to just hang out with you guys! All of which is to say thank you; I'm deeply grateful (and inspired!)!
The best to listen to is dr Timothy winter/sheik Abdal Hakim Murad.
I relate with what Gabriel Said Reynolds said about the Egyptian dialect. I studied classical Arabic in Egypt but still have less trouble with Levantine dialects.
It was nice hearing about the state of the academia as well
Great video
Kindly invite Dr Ali Attie to your prodcast: He is a staunch scholar in the historical aspect of Judaism,Chrisainty and Islam: well versed in Arabic, Hebrew, and Greek. He will enrich your activity in the history of the Abrahamic faith.
Why would he invite an apologist? Come on now.
Reynolds arse will get kicked by Atei.
Thank you very much for the video, Dr. Reynolds. And thank you to Dr. Anthony. As a believer & an avid learner of Qur’anic studies & religion in general, its a fantastic blessing to be able to access these scholarly discussions and resources from the comfort of our own home, and be connected to such erudite thinkers like yourself for free. Definitely not to be taken for granted. It’s also a nice coincidence that I was just introduced to Dr. Sean Anthony & his work very recently, and then this video was released :) I also just happened to be thinking about the idea of crucifixion as well, and specifically the claim made by some critics that the Qur’an is mistaken in referring to “crucifixion” at the time of Pharaoh, Joseph & the ancient Egyptian dynasties-but, as Dr. Anthony himself confirmed, the term “sallab/yusallab” in Arabic can simply refer to any impalement-like state of being (that is centered around the torso or abdomen); and hence the word itself derives from “sulb”-which literally means ‘abdomen’. And so despite frequent inaccurate translations of the Qur’an (due to an innocent lack of historical knowledge & awareness on the part of imperfect translators), the word is often flatly translated “crucifixion” when in fact it can also validly be rendered as “impaled”. And in fact, this actually fits in more nicely and makes more sense in the context of the Qur’anic image of the Pharoah, which explicitly declares him to be the “possessor of _stakes”_ (أوتاد) which we now know was among the primary tools of choice for many for traitors & other criminals in those ancient Egyptian dynasties. Moreover the Qur’an quotes the Mosaic Pharaoh as saying things like _”I shall cut off your hands and feet from opposite ends, and THEN I shall impale you” (la’usallibannakum)_ which only makes sense if we think of traditional ‘impalement’ on a stake, as opposed to Roman-like crucifixion, where the hands & feet were necessary to lock in with nails or ropes. But, I digress. Dr. Sean Anthony seems to have a lot of other great works and ideas, and I’ll definitely be checking out his others works soon. Thanks again for the upload, and I hope to see the next one soon! *P.S.* Could I humbly recommend that you consider inviting Dr. A’isha Y. Musa of the United States to your show? She wrote a fascinating book some years ago titled _”Hadith As Scripture: Discussions on the Authority of Prophetic Traditions in Islam”_ which I think is a fascinating topic, especially in light of the large wave of Qur’an-only (Hadith-rejecting/skeptical) movements currently sweeping the Islamic world. I know it’s not directly tied to the Qur’an, per say, but the implications it has to the Qur’an and its history & exegesis (and the history of Islamic thought as a whole) is nonetheless momentous and profound. Peace/Salam.
@memories2019ss the point here is that the word "could" be translated by impalement. However., the translation vy crucifixion is equally possible and would fit to the parallel usage of Jesus crufixion as mentioned in the Quran. Generally speaking the Pharao stories in the Quran sound very cartoonist to me and of course have a lot of historical problems (as could be expected in view if the author)
Nice and an educated comment
@@hans471 the christian bible has been debunked by bart ehrman and other critical scholars as a hot pile of forgeries, misquoting the hebrew bible, fabrications, internal massive contradictions and outright plagiarism.
@memories2019ss I left piece-lam after reading this evil deed of muha-mad: Some people from the tribe of `Ukl came to muha-mad to embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so muha-mad ordered them to drink camel urine as a medicine. They did so but they became very sick. They reverted from Islam & ran away from muha-mad. Muha-mad sent some men to catch them and they were caught and brought before muha-mad. Muha-mad ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron for leaving islam. Sahih Bukhari 6802
@@hans471 I left piece-lam after reading this evil deed of muha-mad: Some people from the tribe of `Ukl came to muha-mad to embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so muha-mad ordered them to drink camel urine as a medicine. They did so but they became very sick. They reverted from Islam & ran away from muha-mad. Muha-mad sent some men to catch them and they were caught and brought before muha-mad. Muha-mad ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron for leaving islam. Sahih Bukhari 6802
Host is amazing very knowledgeable , fair and balanced.
And don't forget quite sexy too...!!! 😉
Reynolds is a silent Orientalist 😊
Great discussion. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing .
I am a sckeptic of Islam Traditions. That is, complete codexes of Hadiths, Tafsir, Sirat are very late 11th to 12th century CE and attributed to scholar of the 9th and 10th century....Professor Anthony, seems to think and have references to sustain the tradition stories. Please explain.
Like some other commenters I will say Dr. Anthony’s book Muhammad and the Empires of Faith is well-researched. And for me the book answers the very valid questions you have.
I agree, I just can't accept the Sirat and Hadiths as historical books. Some academics treat them like historical books.
Cira.international has much better study subjects.
I often hear phrases such as “the extremes of revisionism or a naive approach to the sources…” I’d be very interested in a topic that defines some of these approaches. Who are some academics whom are labeled as such but still garner some respect for their vigor in research? Perhaps a panel conversation would help define the spectrum of academic study in your field?
Perhaps it lies somewhere between art and science
Patricia Crone is often labeled as a "Revisionist" academic regarding Islam.
@@eriKhaledI suppose she would have been considered a revisionist. But what made her a revisionist and was she extreme or mainstream? This is the dialogue that I desire. Surely some revisionist views are reasonable and based on solid evidence?
The Inarah school is the revisionist school when it comes to the early history of the Quran. They Appy the method of historical and textual criticism to the early history of the Quran. Their reasearch is based on the works of academic giants like Theodor Nölldecke, Alfons Mingana, Victor Luling and Christoph Luxenberg. You can check up a summary of their works on Thomas Alexanders KZhead channel. Their research is legitimate and ground breaking. Sunny dogmats and arab nationalists fear the Inara School because it debunks the myth of the Sunnah dogma as a historical truth. For Quranists their research is less problematic since most Quranist apply the method of historical criticism to the Hadiths and the Siraah. See Sheikh Hassan Farhan al Malikis application of historical criticism when it comes to non quranic islamic sources. The Berlin School led by Angelica Neuwirth is the non-revisionist school. This school is favored by sunny dogmats because it reaffirms the historicity of the sunnah dogma even though the Berlin School does not believe that the Quran is a divine book but tries instead to study it as a historical scripture. Gabriel Said is somewhere between the Inarah School and the Berlin school, trying to balance between those two positions.
Fred Donner lays out the landscape of the various approaches in his Narratives of Islamic Origins
Came here from MythVision...
Kindly invite Dr Ali Attie to your mythvision prodcast: He is a staunch scholar in the historical aspect of Judaism,Chrisainty and Islam: well versed in Arabic, Hebrew, and Greek. He will enrich your activity in the history of the Abrahamic faith.
I have been a great fan of Dr. Anthony ever since I read his work the Caliph and the heretic His dissection of the sources an early shiaism has them was great especially the section on the followers or alleged followers of Ibn Saba But with extreme sadness I have to say that his views have seem to lot closer now To that of Jonathan Brown ( apologetic of early Arab sources and accepting them without question ) than healthy skepticism of Fred Donner Maybe Dr Anthony now has changed his faith That is reflecting on his scholarship Anyway fascinating to hear anybody talking about this time. And again deeply appreciate the host for giving us that opportunity
I wonder what Dr. Anthony would think about Muhammad's 'Read!' revelation relating to St. Augustine's account of an apparently angelic voice telling him to 'take and read' the scriptures, having been inspired by the example of the desert hermit St. Anthony the Great: "I flung myself down beneath a fig tree and gave way to tears... all at once I heard the singsong voice of a child, 'Take it and read it, take it and read it...' I opened the book of the Scriptures and read the first passage my eye fell on, for I had heard the story of Anthony, and I remembered how he happened to go into a church while the Gospel was being read and taken it as a counsel addressed to himself when he heard the words, 'Go and sell all that you have and give to the poor and come and follow me.'" -- Ward, B., The Desert Fathers, Penguin, 2003, p. xix
Wow that's amazing can you tell me any further information about what to read regarding this source and anything about it id be very grateful thanks Jamie
Adel Imam is great! Morgan Ahmed Morgan is hilarious!
This is not about the historical Muhammad. False click bait title.
Yeah right there, the historic mhmd is Isa, nothing new. All is found in the Indjil.read the writings inside the dome.
well...thanks for this discussion but honestly i wanna ask him : where is the beef...where is the beeef?
What’s going on?!?! Kept waiting for some serious discussion and it just did not happen! Very misleading title. Why?!
I am reading Muhammad and the Empires of Faith now. I am really enjoying it--very well-researched.
Salam Alaikum & good evening, Dr. Musa. What a pleasant coincidence-I had actually just left a comment here earlier in request of yourself as a future guest of Dr. Reynold’s show. Particularly in regards to your fantastic book _”Hadith as Scripture”_ and the notion of Qur’an-only or Qur’an-centric Islam as a historical & contemporary movement. Though not directly related to the Qur’an, it is undoubtedly an important topic with many significant implications on Qur’anic exegesis & Islamic thought; and I think I speak for many when I say I would be very pleased to see you on the professor’s platform. Looking forward to a possible future interaction between you both on this channel. Regards.
Thanks to celestial knight's plug :) I will be reading hadiths as scripture over the summer holidays. Does the book into the nature and orientation of hadiths, specifically how the tone or topic change in parallel alongside this process of becoming scripture? Or is this very difficult to ascertain due to the nature of hadith criticism?
@@thepennydreadful95 In Hadith as Scripture, I focus on the parallels between the discussions that took place from the late second/early third to the fifth hijri centuries and those that have occurred in the modern period. The modern challenges to Hadith are frequently dismissed by Muslims as modern orientalist inspired heresies. By directly comparing the discussions of the past with those of the modern period, I show that is not the case.
@@AishaYMusa very interesting topic, I remember mufti Abu layth speaking about this topic previously, I got the idea he was often frustrated with how conversation is frequently shutdown. I look forward to reading this 👍
@@thepennydreadful95 I hope you enjoy it! Let me know if you have any questions.
As a Muslim, I believe in every word in Quran. But, I think we should keep searching for the knowledge since it is required even by Allah to do so. The point is that most of Tafsir books relied heavily on the narrations of Jews and Christians from early times although Tafsir books are not compulsory for Muslims. One of the myths the Muslim scholars took from non-muslims was the story of Abraham and his journey from souther Iraq to Palestine. These scholars or some of them ignored the fact that according to Quran, Abraham and his son Ismaeel rebuilt Kasba. According to Fadel Al Rubie, an Iraqi scholar, he explained that Abraham was A Yeminite person who immigrated north until he reached Makkah.
Where is in quran kaaba called as bait or albait? But it may be about quran and quranic motif albait Or bait
Comparison of Caedmon and Muhammad: 1. Caedmon withdraws from society, in order to find solitude. 2. Caedmon falls asleep. 3. Caedmon receives a vision of an angel. 4. The angel commands Caedmon to recite. 5. Caedmon protests that he cannot. 6. The angel again commands Caedmon to recite. 7. Caedmon asks what he is to recite. 8. The angel tells him to sing of Creation. 9. Caedmon recites the hymn. 10. Learned Christian scholars validate the experience. 1. Muhammad withdraws from society, in order to find solitude. 2. Muhammad falls asleep. 3. Muhammad receives a vision of an angel. 4. The angel commands Muhammad to recite. 5. Muhammad protests that he cannot. 6. The angel again commands Muhammad to recite. 7. Muhammad asks what he is to recite. 8. The angel tells him to sing of the Creator. 9. Muhammad recites the Quran. 10. A learned Christian scholar validates the experience.
born after Muhammad AS died ROFL. You are so desperate
It is interesting, the similarity in the story's, ultimately its derived independent from biblical passages imo. The clue is the name of ceadmon, it's from a Hebrew word meaning an old story or beginning. Famously it appears in the first book of genesis. " In the beginning"
@The Penny dreadful check out St Augustines Confessions..."so was I speaking and weeping in the most bitter contrition of my heart, when, lo! I heard from a neighbouring house a voice, as of boy or girl, I know not, chanting, and oft repeating, “Take up and read; Take up and read. “ Instantly, my countenance altered, I began to think most intently whether children were wont in any kind of play to sing such words: nor could I remember ever to have heard the like. So checking the torrent of my tears, I arose; interpreting it to be no other than a command from God to open the book, and read the first chapter..."
@@inquisitivemind007 that is interesting 🤔 .. 👍
Is this the story narrated by Bede (died 735 CE)?
I wish he was asked about the Arab-Sasanian coins, and why the Muslims accepted Zoroastrian pagan symbols on their coins for 60-70 years, and why Muhammad’s name didn’t appear on coins for a long time? What coins did Muhammad himself use? According to the sirah he was using the Dirham ie sasanian coins in the Hejaz. Why he didn’t care about saying a word against the pagan symbols and Xosrow’s bust on the coins his hands everyday?! Coins have been more than medium of exchange for 1000s of years, they have been propaganda and prestige tools/symbols. The fact the Islamic tradition is so silent on them is very telling. The first thing a new government should do is to mint new coins even in limited circulation to proclaim its ideology.
You are so projecting the modern sense of government onto the antiquity?! This was a tributary type of conquest where you don’t want to disrupt the economy of the conquered but you want them to be able to pay tribute to you. This is what nomads do…
I fully agree but this interpretation doesn’t conform with the traditional Islamic narrative, where the conquest was by Muslims motivated by Muhammad’s message/ideology and the Quran. But don’t assume that the conquerors were nomads from isolated distant lands. They were quite familiar governance and military operations. BTW the relationship bw issuing coins and establishing a government is not a modern concept it, rather it is very ancient.
@@traveleurope5756 You say that understood governance. Yes, of small cities. There is a massive difference between militias or standing up a citizen army, ruling a city and ruling an empire. Scaling up from running a municipality is not as simple as youre making it seem. So yes, for all intents and purposes these folks were backwards bedouins from isolated region. They existed in a specific part of the Hijaz that neither Rome nor Persia bothered to venture into to subject, we are talking in hundreds of years, 1200 years of the Persian Empire and they only ever made cursory expedition into the region. So when conquering an Empire that has existed for 1200 years one of the the most strategic bits of empire building you could possibly do is allow the former empire to run almost entirely as it was run by previous rulers. Minting coins in an Empire as vast as the Sassanid was also not as simple as youre making it out to be. The most cost effective way of minting coins is to collect previous coinage, smelt and mint. A regime could print a limited supply of new coins, which in fact was done in this case in the case of Byzantium coinage, but to widespread replace the coins while still having coins in rotation A. creates inflation B. requires large coffers. How long do you, in your opinion, think it should take to A. ease an empire into entirely new rulers with a new unheard of religion with new religion specific laws in place? B. collect 1-200 years of coin?
@@SwiggityPeanut Do you know that they kept minting non-Islamic pagan coins for 60 years? It is not that they just used Sassanian coins, Arab Muslims kept minting (and hence using) coins with Zoroastrian fire alters. They also kept minting/using coins with crosses on them while the Quran is explicitly criticizing the cross. My question for you is this couldn’t Umar mint Islamic coins in Mecca and Medina at least? Why there is not a single Hadith someone complaining why are we using coins with crosses while the Quran denies Jesus dies on the cross? BTW the Islamic sources don’t mention that the Roman dinar had crosses just say it had the bust of the emperor only.
@@SwiggityPeanut And BTW all gradual changes you are suggesting happened suddenly (almost over night) at the time of Abdl Malik.
55:49
How can someone on his right mind for certainty dismiss story of Abu Sufian meeting with Hercules, unless presentor himself were present at that meeting or you have a written letter from Hercules stating that meeting never happened. Abu Sufian was known merchant who regularly travelled to that region, so there's more plausible evidence that incident happened. Even if that evidence didn't happened I am not going to blow my head off because I don't have conclusive evidence to dismiss it, the honest one will stay silent
Great claims require great evidence.
Because the Romans were bureaucratic to a fault. They documented everything. Meetings with emissaries from far and wide, from small towns to massive empires. They documented the yearly harvest of grain down to the last gram, so to have a story involving the emperor of Byzantium where there is no Byzantine documents bearing empirical evidence is bizarre and when the story involved sounds incredibly like modern day propoganda, then it loses credibility. Abu Sufyan wouldnt be meeting in secret with Heraclius, because this would be conducted exactly like any other meeting between a state leader and a foreign emissary, especially in Byzantium, where this literally happened all the time. Which we know, because its documented. Thats how someone in their right mind can dismiss that story.
Do you mean heraclius ?
@@pheeel17 not at all, this is a fallacy - they might require more evidence of the same quality, at most, depending on who is being convinced and their standard of evidence. 'Great' evidence is a nonsensical term.
Caedmon make believe dreams and nonsensical poetry is no comparison to Quranic revelation. Caedmon was born a100 years after and dreams being an inspiration is definitely a Christian cultural concept. I think Dr Anthony should stick to facts instead of making assumptions. Was Moses meeting God through burning bush also just a story?
بالنسبة للاية 33 في المائدة عن حد الصلب لا اعتقد ان علماء المسلمين قد وصلوا الى فهم لهذا الامر ولكني وصلت الى فهم هذه النقطة منذ عقدين من الزمان وبالدليل القراني . وصلت الى ان الصلب هو عقاب الاغتصاب ولى في ذلك شرح.
It would be interesting to learn more about the "Mount Hira Story" from Northumberland. Does it explain some of the strange details, e.g. why does the Angel ask an illiterate man to read? Should we translate "Iqra" by "Read!" or by "Recite". On the other hand, following the youtube Video by Abduallah Sameer and Abdullah Gondal the Hikra Story fits quite well to an epileptic episode. This would be an indication for the authenticity of the story... Even while keeping Academic standards it would be interesting if you could be a bit more assertive about the (possible) explanations on the life of M. etc. Surely, there are some interesting theories to be checked... One theory which I appreciate (and which SA hates I believe) is the northern arabian origin thesis. It would be interesting to discuss the pros and claims of this story. I have e.g. read that the article "Al" was more common for northern Arabia, not for the Hijaz region. Is that correct?
Ironic that Hira was the name of the Lhakmid capital in Iraq.
@@RedWolf75they’re not related and you made an erroneous mistake because of your ignorance of Arabic language. al-Hira is الحيرة in Arabic and Cave of Hira’a is غار حراء.
@@LWeil-wr6pq Bullshit and you know it
Great storytelling guys and then labelling it history 😅
You were there? Wow ..a first hand witness. Please share your own account.
You have done nothing to make me want to buy the book. Id love to read some balanced historical analysis, but this is all waffle. Where are his arguments? Where is general case? This is just the methodology of the minutiae stripped out of the superstructure making it pointless and boring. The only good bit was description of his personal circumstance - hes at a Publicly funded uni (and I don’t understand tht as in Europe all of our unis outside of niche science projects w biz donations are too). he seems to suggest a bit ruefully this means he can’t upset the Muslim students 🕌🕌. Whts the point of a degree where u dont rigorously look at both sides. C if u can get a swap out to Germany mate. U dont hv to come bk agreeing, just come bk w ur own perspective tht u can sell.
I believe that relying on the myths of the Old Testament led the world into terrible history choas. Because of the continuous translation of it. Due to linguistic difference between ancient Arabian dialect called Hebrew and Greek languages hundreds of proper names had gone away, as an example Ha Kassidim, can't be translated into Chaldeans.
Keep talking no matter what in the end it is a matter of belief. If there is no evidence of Muhammad there is even less of Jesus or the old testament prophets.
There are many Descendants of Muhammad in many countries now. Muslim call them Ahlul Bayt, or family of the prophet
just orientalism "how can we trust the brown guys sources?" The Arab sources are more robust then many. They have biographies of the people who were actually there and wrote it down and what people thought about them and how fought who and who disliked who etc. Nothing compares in western sources regarding historical figures in western society and it is just taken at face value.
This guy is an expert on those "brown guy" sources. In fact, he has translated some of their works for the first time ever in English. He has a great respect for them. Like any good historian, he uses the works of historians before him.
@@pheeel17has he got a phd in arabic as arabic has over 10 million words and english less then 300,000 if not its just nonsense
@@boredalchemist Are you trying to say that the Arabic language has 10 million vocabulary words? 🤔 Are you sure about that? According to the Oxford English Dictionary, English has around 650,000 words, which is more than any other European language.
@@paulheydarian1281 how many of the english words are technical words as 171,476 words are currently used to describe individuals in particular professions
@@boredalchemist English is the the world's premiere technical language. There's a reason why English is the language of modern science and technology. Additionally, English has no qualms about acquiring new vocabulary words from foreign languages, unlike French or Italian. For example, the Arabic words 'jihad and jihadi'' have become part of the English language recently. This shows that English is flexible and can grow larger without any bounds.
هولاء المستشرقون لا يبحثون عن الحقيقة و لكن هم لهم اعتقادات مسبقة معادية للاسلام و يستخدمون لغة البحث العلمي و التزييف و التحريف لاثبات تلك المعتقدات, و هم لا يختلفون في شئ عن الاسلوب الذي اتبعته الفرق الباطنية عبر التاريخ الاسلامي بتفسيراتها المنحرفة للنصوص لتأكيد معتقداتهم, ولذا تجد هولاء المستشرقون يستشهدون باقوال الفرق المنحرفة الباطنية او غلاء الشيعة و لا يهتمون كثيراً من مصادر الاسلام الاصلية, فالمسلمون يتبعون الدليل و هولاء المستشرقون يتبعون الهوي, و لا يعملون بالقاعدة التي بني عليها علماء الاسلام العلم الاسلامي و هي "اذا كنت مدعياً فالدليل, و ان كنت ناقلاً فالصحة" اي اذا كنت تدعي شيئاً فعليك اثباته بالدليل المناسب له سواء كان دليل عقلي او تجريبي او احصائي مرصود, و ان كنت تنقل خبر عن النبي عليه الصلاة و السلام او شئ عن اخبار الغيب او الاسلام فعليك اثبات صحة النقل بتقديم سلسلة الاسانيد و عرض الكلام علي اصول المسلمين العقدية والفقهية و استخدم علوم الحديث في بحثها اما لقبولها او دحضها, هولاء المستشرقون يستخدمون الاساليب الادبية و تحليل النصوص غيرها التي استخدموها في دراسة الاناجيل ثم يجمعونها مع شذرات من مخطوطات مشكوك فيها و يفترضون قصة او رواية ثم ينسجون احداث خيالية و بناء حبكة قصصية و تغليفها بلغة البحث العلمي للتلبيس علي عقول الناس, و من اراد فهم نصوص الاسلام فعليه دراسة و استخدام علوم اصول الفقه و الدين و من اراد دراسة صحة مصادر الاسلام فعليه دراسة علوم الحديث, وغير ذلك من الاساليب فهي علوم زائفة لا طائل منها
The truth is seen as subjective in the academic western tradition. To believe the Quran one must have faith. Modern Western civilization (post-enlightenment) no longer operates on faith & belief, but on empirical evidence. It's important that Islamic scholars be familiar with both traditions to operate properly in the contemporary world .
biggest mistake every1 understanding according to false translation of quran dat made it a religion as oders ... actual thing is 2 understand quran by ur own transcription its not a religion but ppl made it by false translation
مع كامل احترامي للاساتذة الا انني اجد انهما لا يتطرقان للقران كحقيقة مطلقة في رسالتها للنبي محمد عليه الصلاة والسلام . ولم بأتي حديثهما على القران في مختواه كأعجاز اللاهي قائم حتى يرث الله الارض وما عليها . ما يؤسفني انهما ينظران الى الرسالة السماوية المتمثلة في خاتمتها ( الاسلام ) وكأنها رسالة بشرية يمكن مطابقة تناولها من منظور بشري بنظريات وبتنظيرات مشابهة لها خارج نطاق الدين وهنا يقع الاساتذة الغربيين الدارسين للاسلام في نفس الجحر الذي سبقهم اليه المستشرقون الاوائل . فيما يتعلق بصلب الحجاج وهشام بن عبدالملك لابن الزبير فقد أوجزته أسماء بنت الصديق ذات النطاقين رضى الله عنها عندما دخل عليها الحجاج وقالت له : انه افسد على ابنها عبدالله بن الزبير دنياه وان ابنها افسد على الحجاج اخرته . وهنا عظمة الاسلام كرسالة سماوية الخطاب الاللهي للانسان فيه قائم على اعمل ماشئت يابن ادم فأنك ملاقيه يوم البعث ومحاسب عليه , عكس تعاليم المسيحية التي تدخل هتلر الجنة لانه مات مؤمنا بالمخلص الذي دفع الثمن مسبقا عنه . وعكس اليهودية التي ضمنت الجنة لبني اسرائيل دون غيرهم . : أفمن يمشي مكبا على وجهه اهدى أمن يمشي سويا على صراط مستقيم . صدق الله العظيم . اسجل هنا كامل احترامي لهما .
هولاء المستشرقون لا يبحثون عن الحقيقة و لكن هم لهم اعتقادات مسبقة معادية للاسلام و يستخدمون لغة البحث العلمي و التزييف و التحريف لاثبات تلك المعتقدات, و هم لا يختلفون في شئ عن الاسلوب الذي اتبعته الفرق الباطنية عبر التاريخ الاسلامي بتفسيراتها المنحرفة للنصوص لتأكيد معتقداتهم, ولذا تجد هولاء المستشرقون يستشهدون باقوال الفرق المنحرفة الباطنية او غلاء الشيعة و لا يهتمون كثيراً من مصادر الاسلام الاصلية, فالمسلمون يتبعون الدليل و هولاء المستشرقون يتبعون الهوي, و لا يعلمون بالقاعدة التي بني عليها علماء الاسلام العلم الاسلامي و هي "اذا كنت مدعياً فالدليل, و ان كنت ناقلاً فالصحة" اي اذا كنت تدعي شيئاً فعليك اثباته بالدليل المناسب له سواء كان دليل عقلي او تجريبي او احصائي مرصود, و ان كنت تنقل خبر عن النبي عليه الصلاة و السلام او شئ عن اخبار الغيب او الاسلام فعليك اثبات صحة النقل بتقديم سلسلة الاسانيد و عرض الكلام علي اصول المسلمين العقدية والفقهية و استخدم علوم الحديث في بحثها اما لقبولها او دحضها, هولاء المستشرقون يستخدمون الاساليب الادبية و تحليل النصوص غيرها التي استخدموها في دراسة الاناجيل ثم يجمعونها مع شذرات من مخطوطات مشكوك فيها و يفترضون قصة او رواية ثم ينسجون احداث خيالية و بناء حبكة قصصية و تغليفها بلغة البحث العلمي للتلبيس علي عقول الناس, و من اراد فهم نصوص الاسلام فعليه دراسة و استخدام علوم اصول الفقه و الدين و غير ذلك من الاساليب فهي علوم زائفة
0:51:07 He has forgotten what he wrote himself? By the way, why do you have to laugh so often all the time? Is there perhaps an advertisement for a toothpaste? Derek Lambert at MythVision would summarize what you learn here in a few sentences and save over 70 minutes of blah-blah!???? 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Are you Research that's Muhammad existing there time. The name of muhammad arabians theological and grammars is right!! Traditional islam idon't like because the historical, theological, archological, methodology and the other matters.
with a great respect to both of you gentlemen ., if you really want to explore the holly Quran and the Bible then you need to watch Shaikh Ahmed Deedat debating christian schoolars .
If you really want to test your religion; if you really want to know if it's the truth then bring it to Derek Lambert at Mythvision Podcast.
@@inquisitivemind007 Why not sir , its my pleasure to have such reply . Would you please invite Dr. Zaker Nike or Mohamed Hijab or Shaikh Shabeer to debate him . I am really interested to see you taking the step forward . Having said that i do invite you to show me the original picture of Islam that exist which is missing . Would love to see it . Why ? because i am so selfesh and i dont want to end up in Hilfire in the life after . You might be right , why not . Excuse my poor english , i just did a six month course and i am trying my best . Thanx 4 ur reply
These two are academics, a religious debate wouldn’t be useful to them.
@@LordStentheStrong Acadamics , well fine to me but how could we accept what you are saying about them , where both of them hardly could pronounce ( salaba ) it is not salaba my friend in arabic . Its ( الصلب ) كمصدر للجذر I am afraid here sir , they both can not be a reliable source of the holly Quran . A notheer 20 years of arabic studies might help both of them to understand سورة المسد والتي تتكشف لنا نحن العرب والمسلمين يوما بعد يوم الاعجاز الاللهي البلاغي
@@mahmoodnoor5250 Mispronouncing a word that isn't their native language isn't a big deal.
Don't be afraid just say the truth islam is invented by the hadits
I born Hebrew Like Moses Continent of Africa Muhammad zyrmen Tribe Ethiopian Mother Whites haved him hard time
What you wrote makes no sense. Redo, revise, rewrite...
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