Hydraulic Cylinder Rod Eye Removal and Reinstall - Machining and Welding
I have teamed up with a very reputable hydraulics shop in the last few months. This is one of the jobs we got in. After they tried to remove the pistons, they decided to take a different approach. Not something you would usually do, but if you force the piston off you run the risk of damaging the threads. If that happened, the rod or piston or both would need to be replaced.
Instead of risking this costly repair, the decision was made to have me cut them off. Once removed, the seals were replaced and reinstalled on the shaft. Then I went about welding them back on.
A totally unconventional repair, and probably something that Kurtis @CuttingEdgeEngineering will criticize heavily. But it was an option that wouldn't bankrupt the customer, and gets him back to work quickly.
Topper Machine LLC is an entirely manual machine shop located in Spooner, WI. Our videos will highlight some of our shop work as well as the sawmill we built in the shop and our A.D. Baker steam engine, and others we work on.
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I love where we get to see the whole job, not just a short shot or two in a 8 to 10 minute video. Thank a lot.
I have struggled with this one for a few reasons. First was my terrible Internet service, uploads for 15 minute videos was 12-16 hours. That one got fixed recently. The second struggle was that most people don't have the attention span for more than about 8 minutes anymore. I've read lots of studies on this. Apparently the studies were wrong then it comes to manual machining. Thanks for watching.
This reminds me of my apprenticeship days. The shop I worked for would get all kinds of crazy stuff in for us to repair or fabricate. I’ve always been a manual machinist. Any shop I worked for since my apprenticeship always seemed excited that I could run their manual equipment so I never had much of a chance to learn CNC. I’m a terrible welder though. Great video!!!
Nice working content. Thanks for taking the time out to show us.
The size and magnitude of these repairs are really impressive. You must be exhausted at the end of the day hauling all these heavy things around. Although many viewers will never work on such large projects the basic procedures can be applied to smaller items in need of repair. Very instructive video and thank you for the time and effort that goes into making them.
I'm beat most days. But I love what I do.
Great procedural repair Josh, new lathe working well 👏. Great photography as well. Thanks for sharing.
It is very relaxing to watch the work you do.
Another great video. Instructive, well done and fun to watch. Thank you for sharing.
This was the first video I watched that you produced. I liked what I saw. I also liked the little shout out to Curtis at cutting edge engineering. I have subscribed, rang the bell and look forward to other videos. Thank you for sharing.
I really appreciate how you explain what you are doing and how you do it, cheers
Cool video Josh. Finding a work around to preserve older parts to give them a longer life without risking destroying them - nothing wrong with that.
Thanks for the video. I appreciate how much effort it takes to produce such cinematic quality videos. Those button inserts sure do remove the metal. Good solution to the problem.
Nice camera work Josh, I like the cuts especially, they make it very enjoyable. Thanks for all the effort you put into filming and editing.
Hi Josh. Keith-MI ..... I might have mentioned this. Dake in Grand Haven. Manufactured this bandsaw, I was contacted, invited for an interview for a new position, and managed this product came from Italy. When we meet. Hopefully, in 2023, I'll discuss this in better detail. Nice job on this rod project!!
Very nice work mr topper
Excellent job! Love the CEE mention!
Nice of you to take the time to make a video. When finding the center of a circle with a DRO. Use your edge finder on the first side and zero your axis then go to the other side then touch your 1/2 button then touch your axis again when you return to center your DRO will read zero. Do the same for your other axis and you will have a perfect center. Jack, Heavenly Machining.
You caught that too. I had no idea whet he was up to with the dial calipers.
It seems to be easier to just use a dial indicator in the spindle.
I enjoyed the spliced in "action" shots of the wire feeder and wire spool. Good editing work. I bet you wish it didn't take so much time.
Between setting up my shots and editing, these 1 hour jobs take 10 hours. But I enjoy it.
Good stuff Josh as always interesting greetings from sunny NZ
Glad to see your subscribers rising up👌
Me too. Was thinking I was going nowhere.
Wow, what a process. I am not a machinist but it was interesting to watch you. My shop..............I only have a small CNC plasma cutter, small welder and a powder coat oven. I used to make metal art.
Nice repair, plenty strong
Great video and thanks for talking through each step, I learn a lot from your videos
You want to know a secret? Talking through the video was my wife's idea. 🤭
@@TopperMachineLLC You will now have to tell her that she is very wise and it was a great idea 😀
@@TopperMachineLLC Giver her a bonus! It makes the video more interesting.
Great work Josh, nice camera work on the Mig wire running out. Bits like that take you up a notch or two from the others. Oh... and... May the Force be with You !
Thanks. I was wondering who would be the first to comment on that. Lol
@@TopperMachineLLC On a serious note, it made a lot of sense to do those cylinders like that especially if you've got all those skills in house to do it.
@@TopperMachineLLC I also knew you'd run out of wire. You commented on the wast of the wire. With your large roll, it's only a small percentage of the roll. I use flux core wire, as I only do a bit of welding occasionally at home and I use 1lb or 2lb rolls, so the amount of wire I have to waste is a lot higher percentage of the roll. Pity there isn't a way to join the wire when it runs out.
This was a very interesting video showing an unconventional way of undertaking a difficult repair. I have a tip for you. I was recently watching a video where the guy was doing plasma cutting, MIG welding, arc gouging and arc welding. He had his camera behind an auto-darkening welding lens and the video really showed up the various processes very well. It showed a first-hand look at the processes, just like the operator would see. It could be something you might want to look into. All the best from Queensland Australia.
I've also heard that a welding arc can damage the CCD in a camera. No idea if true, but I think a helmet (or just the module from a helmet!) could certainly be a good thing to do. Could also protect camera from accumulation of vaporized metal and such from the welding process.
@@Resonantfate guess it's a good thing consumer grade cameras haven't used CCDs in a decade...
Josh, Great camera resolution. That big spindle bore is NICE......Dave
Nice work man. I would like to see a slightly deeper back cut into that weld area just to get more thickness into that weld and a couple of tack welds all the way around before starting the full weld. Almost certainly its pulled to the side a little.
Much appreciated. For some additional skills watch Cutting Edge Engineering from Australia. No nagging or promoting here but it's Curtis specialty and I learned a lot from his approach, tooling and knowledge. And fun to watch without association from my side. Just a big fan. Best, Job
I do watch him. He does a good job, but his way is also only one of many ways of getting to the same end result. I have learned a few things from him and have several mentors with 40+ years to ask for advise also.
@@TopperMachineLLC It's great to have mentors that are willing to pass on what they have learned. All of us that have learned from others have an obligation to pass it on. In the hopes that what we do will not become a lost art. I will be 80 in a couple of months and love to see the younger crowd taking a interest in what we do. Not a lot of us old timers left that are still working. I just gave away an old lathe to a nephew. . He is having a ball learning how to run it. Of course he calls for advice at least once or twice a week. Now he has his eye on one of my mills? He's a good kid, so we will see when it's time.
Morning, Nice work around think I would have clocked the turned dia in the mill with a DTI in holder. as it was turned off the shaft. Just how as a miler I was taught. Enjoy the weekend.
I considered that but wanted to show a different method. More than one way to skin a cat. Thanks for watching.
you're gonna have to get a welding helmet for the camera, too. When I welded eyes on the rod I put a wet shop towel on the rod.
I love to hearing the mig fizziz sound.
Kurtis tack welds it while its still in the lathe. With that brand new lathe of yours, I'm not sure I would do that. Fun to see the comparison.
Yeah, I've seen that done. No chance I would ever do that. The risk of damage is too great.
@@TopperMachineLLC I'm a controls engineer and I have a background in automated welding. Many assembly lines have welding cells and don't have any issues with the electronics. Kurtis addressed this in one of his videos and he has no issues. I can't say if it's good or not. Kurtis is a stud tho. That cat is a worker.
@@ValiRossi the electronics don't concern me at all. It's the spatter, and fumes filled with particles getting on the machines. That's why my weld shop is separate from the machine shop. I made the mistake when I started out and added the weld shop soon after.
Might be worth looking at getting an R8 shank ER 32 or 25 collet chuck and a handful of tap collets for the sizes you use most often. R8 to MT adapter with MT tap holders would also work. You would lose some Z travel, but you would get reliable torque transmission through the square drive.
I have never had to cut the eyes off a piston to replace the seals and I've always used a 4 to 1 with a torque wrench to take the nuts off and put them back on to the Pacific Torx now I have had to weld new eyes on because of waddled out bushings and being broke off
16:22 lots of smoke and little coolant. Yes, that was a good bit of GTAW filler wire. 0.045" is right size for 16 gauge sheet/tube. S6 is a bit more fluid than S2 with extra deoxidizers, perfect for blind tube welds where you can't clean the inside.
Great Content , I am a new subcriber ,
New Holland and kobelco pistons are very often hard Lock glued and need heat up to get open and force to open is quite high. Hydraulic opener is needed.
Gettin it done, great video Josh, keep'um coming.
Josh, you have your audio level recorded (at some point in the video, maybe all of it) a good bit loud. The "Stats for Nerds" on this video reports: Volume / Normalized: 100% / 37% (content loudness 8.7dB) What this means is because you recorded 8.7dB too hot, KZhead has cut the volume down to a maximum of 37% of the recorded volume. This actually makes the output volume a bit low. Ideally you want Content Loudness to be 0dB or a little bit below that. Don't go way low, since KZhead won't increase the volume if it is too low.
Sorry for the stupid question in advance. Have I missed something? You cut the eye off the shaft, to then weld it back on? What did that achieve? Loving the work though and that lathe is a beast!!
good
You guy's work on Harleys? You could call it Topper's Harley service. Get it? Topper Harley? C'mon that's funny. Great shout out to Kurtis.
I don't work on harleys, but would be a great business name. Lol
Look up Cutting Edge Engineering's video on the rotary welding ground clamp. Great stuff.
I already seen it. Mine has been in the works for a while. Just too many paying jobs in the way.
Very interesting video I have made custom length hydraulic cylinders in my farm shop I don't have any nice tools other than a century stick welder and a abrasive cut off saw it took about a hour to saw the 2 1/2" chrome rod the barrel cut easy it was -20 degrees Fahrenheit out doors and my shop had no heat I welded the cross tube on and when it cooled it fell off it was the first pass so I beveled it some more and turned the heat I used gun grease on the chrome rod in the winter time and the next pass it held so I reground the weld and put 2 more passes and it has never failed it's on a log loader 5 inch barrel it has a lot of lift capacity I had to be back in operations the next day so I didn't have time to wait. I enjoy the video very much 👍👍👍👍
I think I missed something. You cut the eye off of the rod and then welded it back on. What was the point of that? Did you do something with the rod in between that was not shown?
I see you backing up a lot with your fork lift. I suggest you put add some side or rear view mirrors for safety. Who knows if someone comes in and surprises you one day. Does it make a sound when you are backing up? Good videos. Thank you.
Don't have to worry about anyone coming in. Open by appointment only, and doors are locked otherwise.
Glad to see a chain hoist in the weld shop we need one by the Lathe we are getting older every day thanks
I'm working on one for the machine shop as we speak. Jobs are getting way to heavy.
@@TopperMachineLLC Join the club!
I follow Curtis and Adam among others, and they are always scrupulous about blowing off debris as well as wiping. Topper needs air as well as a hoist at the lathe. I cringe sometimes when new cuts are started with debris laying around on the piece.
Alternate method works well for the situation, no problem there! What size and manufacturer of ' button insert' Rxxx insert. Thanks, I did subscribe and thumbs up!
He didn't show when he repacked the cylinder. Is that just changing the seals on the inside?
You forgot to mention that between the step of cutting the eye off and then welding it back on the gland nut was repacked.
I can't believe I forgot that. Crap! Yes, they were definitely repacked. All are back on the machine and back to work. Thanks for watching
He said it within the first two minutes
What nozzle dip do you use? And what brand welding gun are you using?
did you reseal the Gland didn"t see that part
I must miss something. I did not understand cutting off the eye only to weld it back. Why was it cut?
Hi Josh, nice work on removing and re-attaching the eye, but forgive me for asking: What for? In one shot you're done removing the eye, in the next you're putting it back on?!? My guess would be that you replaced the seals / wipers / o-rings on the head gland / gland nut off-camera?
yes, the guy doing the seals did not want to be filmed. I had to respect his privacy.
You mentioned Cutting Edge Engineering which is one of my favorite KZhead channels. Good work and thanks for sharing.
Why do you not like putting oil on the steady rollers?
Hello to you
Does your welder have argon gas also
Would be nice to have a jib crane .
What type of wire and size and gas are you using?
Great work. Is preheat required for welding eyes to rods?
I think you are right. this guy needs to watch a few more episodes of Kurtis at CEE, I guess he does it this way to cut down on the welding.
Sometimes. You do have to be careful not to get the chrome too hot. I've seen repairs where they preheated something that shouldn't be and then cooked the chrome off 3 inches down. Basically scrapping the rod. These rods weren't big enough to require preheat. A little bigger and I definitely would have.
Rance here Josh, first time viewer. Will the facing off (flattening & drilling) end of eye cause a weak area that will crack & fail under the extreme pressure the eye experiences with use?
Not likely as most all of the real force is on the rod end on these. I also took such a minimal amount of material off that it should never be an issue.
@@TopperMachineLLC Thanks Josh, I am not a machinist (maybe a wanna be) in my self study and listening to videos …the zert greasing area which penetrates into the eye area has been a weak point in some high stress places. Just wondering if this might be a similar circumstance. Appreciate your prompt answer and knowledge. Really enjoyed video.. I have subscribed to your channel.
I work in the plant where that cylinder was manufactured. You won't hurt that chrome. (Today atleast) they machine the threads for the piston nut after the rod is chromed and polished. They also weld the eyes on to the rods by rotary friction welding, that occurs after chrome, polish and machining.
It seemed like a good quality rod. After the first one I knew it was good chrome.
What did you actually repair?
Get some spiral flute taps, all problems solved!
Hi Josh, I was thinking as to why you were cutting the eye off at the beginning. with possibility of damaging to rod it makes sense. and just because its different doesn't make it wrong. Thanks
2:32 now what about the seals in between the piston and you're still going to have to replace I don't think you're doing I don't think 😞🤔🤔
I always just pin them and tack it in the lathe before heading to the rotator to weld. It's also rare I have to cut an eye off to repack but it has to be done sometimes. Some "non serviceable" cylinders can be rebuilt, you just have to cut the butt end off amd re weld it.
We discussed pinning, but decided on the threaded rod for fine adjustment of final length. I've worked in shops that welded in the lathe, not in mine. Saw a couple lathes scrapped because of improper grounding, weld spatter, dust, etc.
@@TopperMachineLLC for sure, and yes you really have to take the precautions or welding in the lathe can be a disaster. I can see why you wouldn't that's a nice lathe you have and threading was a better way to do it out of the lathe. I love hydraulic cylinder work, do lots of it so it's always cool to watch how others do things. Always learning in this trade lol
@@kamper4140 thanks. I really like my new lathe and want it to last. I just started doing hydraulic work, so still learning. The shop I'm working with has been at it almost 50 years and recently lost their machinist due to major health problems. Before I do anything, I consult them. Having never done it before, I was cautious on the first few and they told me that it was as good as what their guy did. I was the 4th shop they tried and the first one to put out the quality they are known for. It's been working out great for both of us, they get quality products and I get to learn new skills.
@@TopperMachineLLC that seems to be a trend right now in the manual machining world unfortunately. I'm 39 and not many my age or younger are into what we do, gonna be a problem the more the old timers bow out. I find that if you can tackle cylinder work it can definitely keep you busy!! I see some stuff that comes in from other shops and sometimes it's a head scratcher lol.
do you actually watch Cutting Edge Engineering?
Yes I do, and he does it one way of the many ways of doing the same job.
Would be nice if customers would at least try and clean the parts that they bring you.
Everyone thinks that machine shops are also parts washers. Ugh! At least I can bill for cleaning, but not overly happy about it. Thanks for watching!
If only.😕
Cool video . You should check out Cutting Edge Engineering Australia it very good. Thanks for the videos
Love this work and channel. No women in yoga pants here...lol
Why threaded holes? A pin would make for much better alignment. Why did you not use an indicator, regular or coax to center up on the eye.
The thread acted as a micro adjustable connector/aligner. A pin could surly be used?. But it would be more difficult/variable/unhelpful.
@@captcarlos Breaking a tap would be more unhelpful than using a pin.
Does the hydraulic shop you are doing those rods for have a hydraulic nutbuster? How you renew the o-ring seal between the piston and the rod with this method?
Or just get a CNC and won’t have to worry about vast shank differences , you’ll have a taper to go by I do think it was genius to incorporate that thread and then weld the eye back on, every day is a school day
Cold day before I ever go CNC.
I see why you went modern on the lathe now you needed that large spindle bore more than anything else
Spindle bore, metric threading, spindle reverse, and tolerance. It has definitely been a huge upgrade.
@@TopperMachineLLC yeah I don’t think I would get rid of my koping lathe this 2-5/8ths spindle bore is great metric threading is an option on it as well for awhile was my only option but I’m finally setup to make the change gears for it
@@jeremycable51 I wouldn't get rid of it either if I were you. But my work warrants 4" bore. Sometimes I wish I had 6" or larger, but it's not frequent.
@@TopperMachineLLCI got this lathe insanely cheap 175$ koping s8sa 16x10’ between centers all in under 600$ and it’s a great machine
I thought you had to repack it?
They got repacked. I didn't do it, the hydraulic shop did. I just did the machining and welding. I know I forgot to mention. It got repacked before reattaching.
Your volume is too low Josh---regards E
Same here. I had to turn my volume up full, but then it came louder nearer the end. I find different videos have different volume levels.
maybe invest in a rotator if you do lots of rod repairs
kzhead.info/sun/grqyZquSroiLo6M/bejne.html
Lol good darth vader attempt
Sounds like a situation of letting sleeping dogs lie. 😎
I thought the saying was always "fix it until you break it"
U know what they say spare the rod
You don't need to cut it with the bandsaw you can cut it a little more heat it up a little bit and I'll fall it off
This is friction welded, meaning that it is welded all the way through. It had to be cut off.
Can’t even see
Curtis would never use threads to attach an eye
In all CEE vids he hasn't re-attached the eye he cut off to its original rod.. 😲
Just measure with the banana ruler😉
Is Kurtis the good of repairing rams. No he’s just one of thousands round the world that does it. He seems a bit of a smug know all if you ask me.
@@an04ker well ya got the Aussie way, and ya got the Yank way...Being Smug, ya we know what that means, as we have Yanks coming here all the time 🇨🇦
Good for him, I bet this works just fine.
Just a question. Would it not be better for that under cut to be closer to the treaded insert to get the weld to start just shy of the the threaded insert. That way tje weld be be a significantly higher % of the diameter of the shaft.
If you turn the coolant off as you're cutting you'll see it smoke as soon as you break through to the hydraulic fluid that's in there
I'm curious. Why not use a coaxial indicator to center the head in the mill?
The videos could be 100% better with a little judicious editing
those welds look like shit mate
Sounds like you used a potato for a microphone .
Safety first. Please, please stop the machine while changing the tools. It is nothing but fun if (and when) that tool isn't far enough from the rotating object and catches in there. Worse yet, one might drop it somewhere but not in the QCTP.
You never showed the "famous" piston removed , repacked etc... where is that piston ,,, this is a bad Video,, DISLIKED .
Why are you using hardwire . Not the best properties I would think for this application
Does your welder have argon gas also
Can’t even see