Saving a 4" Thick Plate with a Bad Torch Cut Hole - Horizontal Boring Mill - Manual Machinist
I get a lot of repair jobs, so this one was nothing new. The plate is for the base of a structural support column in a large building The plate is cut on a plate machine and the holes are burned through. This particular hole had some kind of failure and did not cut good.
Having not seen the torch cut side until it was on the Lucas horizontal boring mill, I was unsure what I was getting into. Luckily this wasn't too bad of a job, and the customer was happy to not have to scrap this expensive plate.
Topper Machine LLC is an entirely manual machine shop located in Spooner, WI. Our videos will highlight some of our shop work as well as the sawmill we built in the shop and our A.D. Baker steam engine, and others we work on.
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Kudos to the other shop for knowing when to stop and call for backup.
Josh Topper to the rescue again. Your local community is very lucky to have such a talented man. One of the best channels on KZhead, no useless chat. Take care stay safe.
Thank you for the kind words. I'm just a guy doing what I like to do. I'm the one who is lucky to be able to do these jobs.
I agree 100% about the useless chat. It's one thing to spend a few mins. explaining what you are doing but there are some channels where the creator just talks for 15 or 20 mins. explaining an operation that takes 2 mins. to preform. I think Josh has nailed the magic formula of talk vs machining.
@@dennythomas8887 thank you. It really is a struggle to find that balance.
@@TopperMachineLLC I would bet that you would just love to find another person who could do what you do and just let him or her go to work on the manual machine. Wish you luck finding that person. They say good people are hard to find, which is an understatement these days. Good luck with you jobs fella.
@@victoryfirst2878 tune in Saturday for the live stream. I have an announcement on the helper front.
Seeing the already cut holes in this 4" plate, it's obvious the oxy-fuel operator didn't know the proper procedure for piercing and cutting this thickness. Oh well, more business for Topper Machine.
Mag drill and an annular cutter would be another solution for this. easier than going through shipping this to a shop to put a loose tolerance hole.
No flim flam, no filler, no stories about stupid pets and no bullshit. Subbed.☘️👍
I throw a little in occasionally, but I am here to work and get the job done. Thanks for the sub!
I think I know what you mean. Well, but I am an adult. I can use the play controls if some "stupid pets" ... wait, you are right: The pets are put in for the only reason to annoy me!!! Oh and all videos are exclusively made for me. To make me happy! To entertain me. Me alone! Also I have learned media competence. I am able to decide what I watch, without thinking the satire I made in the last paragraph. And I can skip over parts I am not interested in, because I am not to stoooooopid to miss video chapters in the description or to be that arrogant to think a royalty free video made with love has to be that thing that fuels my embarrassing entitlement. Also I do not need vague hints like "bullshit", which is actually BS and may mean anything ... which I may decide tomorrow, that some style is and somehow fall into your back. Yeah, because of my unstable effing mood (or simply because interests change over time ... **FACEPALM** ). Our best wishes and homage... the greatest admiration these days seems to be expressed by belittling others? How disgusting! Hey, I am sorry. Maybe you have good intentions, but at the core you are just calling out others. Are you not grown up enough to figure out what you like? Or are you only able to define yourself (and your strange impression of "praise") by negative traits and calling those of others out? Just asking, because that looks like a really sad worldview and understanding of "entertainment".
@@dieSpinnt I honestly don’t know what you are on about? Do I need to be on what you are on to be able to understand it?
Great video Josh, I used a Devlieg horizontal boring mill for years and it is a great machine for big and small jobs. Your Lucas really expands your capabilities. You saved the day again!
Another great job. I’m pleased at your dedication to serving your customers in a timely manner. All the best!
What a great save, very cool! thanks for taking us along
The Lucas machine is awesomely impressive. I like the rolling gantry too. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing that Josh - That lucas is a mighty machine.
I WATCH YOUR METHOD OF APPLICATION REAL CLOSE, ALL THOSE YEARS OF STUFF... AND WE ARE EYE TO EYE ON THAT, ONE MORE PERFECT JOB DONE !!! ~
Great job on fixing that previous "Hole".
simple operation, but satisfying to watch!
I was impressed by the size of that plate and the size of the tooling you had to use
Thanks Josh
What a beautiful machine
Hi Josh. Loved running DeVliegs and Lucas HBM's back in the day. Spent almost ten years running them. If I had the space there would be a Lucas HBM in my garage. Have to make do with a Bridgeport. Did a lot of machine elements and weldments. The job in this video is something I have done hundreds of times. Fabricator making the weldment "helps" by taking meat out and now I have to put the hole back on location. Love watching the old stuff still saving the day!
Hello Josh. I worked at a small locally owned machine shop before I retired. We had 6 lathes and 2 milling machines. One lathe was a large vertical one and we had a decent sized horizontal lathe we used to sub-arc weld large blocks(rollers) for fishing vessels. I appreciate your skills. Thank you.
That hole you started with the end mill acted like a drill guide to keep it straight. Brilliant. Nicely done, Josh.
Wonderful as always Josh, educational and entertaining too, great job buddy, thanks for sharing
Excellent job, Josh.👍
Awesome job sir. I never worked on big machine tools like you have here. The Bridgeport was my main machine so I am humbled in what I see here. Plunging in with that endmill was a smart move. A drill would have most likely began wobbling and walking if use to start the hole.
We have a 6” Lucas in our shop. 32” facing head, 46” x 84” table. Great machines.
Great video as always Josh! 👍👍
Good job
I started out machining in 1994 on a Gilbert a little bigger than this machine. My Dad even ran it from the late 60's when he started out. The Machine was with the company since the 40's We used it weekly up until last year and sadly it was decommissioned. Everything is about safety now in Big corps and we were under their umbrella. Open machines freak the higher up's out. The machine probably made a Billion dollars during it's life :). Glad to see another like it still making swarf..
What happened to it? Was she scrapped, if not is there a way to save here from scrapping, or worse... sent overseas? Frankly, I think a good non practical use for her, is a decorative peice in front of corporate HQ or some other company property. In my state we had several companies that are involved in geological resource extraction and refinement. While corporate HQ is elsewhere, sites have old equipment as a decorative peice near the gate or elsewhere where the public can see it without trespassing.
The one machine that people got hurt with more here was the big radial drills. Usually something to do people trusting them or something
@@jed-henrywitkowski6470 It was eventually sent to a small job shop from what I can gather. The parent company unfortunately got rid of most of our manual machines.
@@bryco32 Outsourcing health and safety liabilities to subcontractors is the standard corporate way.
Pretty decent camera work. Good clear and close pictures. Good explanations. Good channel.
Awesome job!
Great job Josh, I was shocked and amazed at the total cob job that original shop made of torching those holes.....really looked like an apprentices 1st try.....Y YI YI...... I was quite surprised that you didnt experience any flame hardened hard spots from the torch job, or bubbled porosity voids......and pleased that you didnt.....definitely a great save, many here have NO idea how much of a save this actually was.....10 thumbs up !!!!!! Don
Thanks. I did experience some hardening, but experience has taught me not to push it, just nice and slow and lots of oil. I charged handsomely, but they had no problem with it. Not sure how much the plate would cost to replace, but guessing I saved them a ton.
That was a very unusual job, but you had the machine to get it done. That oil can looks like it's as old as the horizontal boring machine. This old gear was really made to last! All the best from Queensland Australia, where we are just starting summer. Hope your winter won't be too severe this year and your bees survive the winter.
Thanks for sharing.
That is one hellishly loud machine.
I Enjoyed this very much
Great job!!!
Good job. You can do things if you have the right tools, and it seems you have. Enjoyed.
Nice job!!
I love the older Style machinery. I used to work on Mackson laths and a Lucas Shafering machine. Always wanted to get another Mackson lathe later on down the track.
Just found your channel. Nice to see knob twirlers still in business. We closed our shop as a business and just do hobby work now. Not anywhere near as equipped as yours. Just a Leblond Regal, big Lodge & Shipley lathes, Hendy #3 horz mill and Kent vert mill for machines. Decent weld shop and 4 X 8 CNC plasma system. (Our original product) We used to joke about building CNC systems on manual machines.
Thumbs up! Keep the HBM projects coming! My luck I would have hit a hard spot in that torch goober and toasted a bit.
Excellent rescue! They should have come to you first!
Such wonderful toys.. I could do this kind of work all day long..
Good stuff
Nice job! 👍👍👍
Thanks for the video. That Lucas boring mill is a real keeper. I'm always pleased when you use it. I remember you doing line boring with it. Cheers.
It's been a great machine. I need to replace some bearings in the feed box as they have gotten really noisy, but that will have to wait for free time.
@@TopperMachineLLC Free time, eh? 😂
Powerful smooth machine alright. Never figured to really see a man make an income boring thick steel plate. Pretty cool!
Thanks for the cool video.
Nice job sir. Always a little nerve-wracking fixing messes like that. Also i do a lot of boring mill work with flame cut material like that and they never leave me enough material when i'm squaring up these pieces so that i dont eat up my milling inserts. They think they're doing me a favor by only leaving a sixteenth per side but its not enough to get under that hard scaley crap. And we machinists know, theres nothing harder on inserts than rubbing on hard flame cut. But...oh well....i'm not paying for inserts. I guess i shouldn't care. But jeez...they dont listen ! Anyway.. thanks for another cool vid. Cheers from Canada.
Seems like maybe in the very beginning that a simple mag drill would have been the easiest tool for this job. Great job on the repair!
That’s a monster hole, a monster annular cuter, and a LONG time to cut those. Torch is the money.
@@irondiver292 We have annular cutters up to 3 inches. Cuts a hole in 1inch plate in about 1.5 minutes
No shortage of stupidity in America !!
Do you know what those bits cost?
It was 4" thick. A 4" depth 2" annular cutter is going to run you a minimum of $500.
Great video Josh, love that Lucas gotta find me one. 👍👍👍👍
Wow that worked out awesome. I would have lost money on that bet, I would have bet hard as glass. Thanks for sharing.
A machine like that is a money drain in most modert big industries and workshops, but in a small shop where there is a lot of one off´s it´s a lifesaver and moneymaker! Funny how something can be so outdated for one type of business and a goldmine for others! 😉
Cool video. Love watching these when theyre nicely presented like this, and especially since there's no stupid music edited over the actual sounds of the machinery, processes, etc. Thanks :)
Love that Lucas and those b ig Morse Taper drills.....Bravo....cheers from Florida, Paul
Awesome video Josh. I really like that Lucus HBM. It is a very versatile machine and a workhorse. Nice job. You have takin a disaster and turned it into a usable part. At the price of steel, a company could not afford to have a big piece of scrap. They should have had you put all of the holes in that plate. Thanks for sharing. Take care, Ed.
Torque + Pressure = Awesome I'd have been nervous nelly with a temp gun the whole time. Cool calm collected makes you the pro and me the not pro.
Takes a lot of experience to get comfortable with this stuff. You will get there, practice makes perfect.
Another great video! I really need to get a horizontal mill.
I use to run a Horizontal boring mill. The one I ran had a high speed spindle like yours and an outer boring head where the tool would cut like a boring head. That job would have been ideal for a core drill.
Many other shops I watch have fixed cranes. Your portable crane is a great alternative.
Another nice save :)
Center drills are for what they are called, for lathe centers. There are spotting cutters for use with drills.
Marking out a square for a round hole, gives perfect indication of accuracy 👌. There's also the double concentric circle method. Great work Josh, proper size stuff. Thanks for sharing.
I am glad that you were able to save the part. Four inches is thick plate. I am so used to working with sheet meatal and it is hard for me to imagine cutting something thick. It is a good thing that you had the talent and equipment to do the job. That steel had to be very expensive and I am sure that you saved them time and money. Thanks for the video. 😃😃😃😃
I am morbidly curious to know what the raw material costs. Thought suspect that it might be in the category of "You don't want to know"
@@gorillaau Just the plate itself with no work done to it would be around $2000. That is for a 2x2' 4" plate, and his appears larger than that. Lots of money in steel these days.
@@Bobbywolf64 Thanks for the reply. So perhaps this could have been a $5000 plate and is now a $10,000? I read your reply earlier but forgot to reply.
Great vid! Btw, it’s called a Davis key👍
Sometime over the years I picked up an ancient mag drill and a huge bucket of annular cutters. While I don’t use the mag drill much, it’s great for stuff like this. I use the annular cutters in the mill quite a bit. I love seeing these big old mills in use still.
Annular cutters that can cut more than 2" deep are pretty rare though.
@@bcbloc02 True, I think I have some longer ones but most are pretty stubby. Given the loose tolerance, I think you could drill a pilot hole all the way thru and drill from both sides. I just wanted to point out that annular cutters exist really. It’s one of those things like trepanning in the lathe that I often wonder why more people don’t use.
I enjoyed that. Lucas is a hoss. You got my sub.
The reason I like small pilot drill bits. Several times I have used a chunk ?? 3/8" flat bar against some hole I have needed to put into place it worked with what I had at the time. Sure is nice to have the equipment!
If you watch when you started drilling with the 2 inch drill bit the cutting flutes are not at the same lvl so it will cause the drill to wander , you can tell by the fact they started cutting a different times by the cuttings being different lengths .
I understand sub scribed! When my kids were in error or needed guidance they got it immediately not at the end of the day! You know so much, you do it your way!!! You're like the old Maine farmer who said he would 'nt like it if it was better!!!
Thank you. I only know a lot because I've seen a lot of screwed up stuff and had to fix it. Lol. We do the best we can in life and hopefully can pass on our knowledge before we go.
I worked at a steel shop that did processing. A general rule is 2" plate, less than 2" hole could cause trouble. Oxy-propylene is an easy way to get through, 90psi cut pressure. A good ramp up on your piercing valve will get it through. The other holes looked out of round and rough. Like the machine needs some work.
Nice work on the fix.
I did a job like this a while back. Used my radial arm drill. I found it good to fill the rough in with mig weld as best I could, then drill it out. Keep up the great work. Here from the uk 🇬🇧
Those are my kind of tolerances. Nice lol
Nice save on that one JT. You sure do work on some gigantic projects. Your local community would be lost without Topper Machine. Thanks for another interesting video.
God job
May want to try a hougen cutter, they are available in long lengths, and do well with these issues, and they size on the money and done in 1 pass.
I really need to make one of those Davis style draw keys for my spindle. Good video. ----Doozer
Doozer, I was just watching this after getting the piston grinder & was going to tell you about that block for your HBM.
@@stephensarkany3577 Block ?
@@kooldoozer For holding the Morse taper into the Lucas spindle
Good work. I always say to people, "what would you do without a forklift" ?
Hey Top! 9:36 mark: PLEASE pop for a Tri-Pod! Dude , you're makin me seasick. Great Videos.
"The standard 2 inch twist drill". Love it!
Boy you saved them a bunch of money and time. Hope they understand what you did for them. While in college we took a field trip to Shilen barrels. They where using machines made before the 1950s. And while drilling it moved all over. 😉🤔🤔
I would have tried a mag drill on it. Given the generous clearance hole accuracy wold be ok. I don't have a mill to play with though and you did a great job.
I agree. Can't imagine why the shop that cut the plate wouldn't use a mag drill for the holes, especially if they frequently make such plates.
My thoughts exactly. I’m surprised mag drills and annular cutters aren’t used more. I’ve worked in plenty of shops that didn’t have either. I use annular cutters in the mill and lathe quite frequently. I got a huge tub of them probably at an auction somewhere so I don’t need to buy them, which might make a difference.
@@einfelder8262 Time...... a burn table can put that 2" hole thru 4" of plate way faster than a mag drill even with a special annular cutter that could handle plate that thick.
@@bcbloc02 Yes, I can appreciate the time factor, and the expense of suitable mag drill and cutter. But how much time (and money) did the original shop save on this job? Perhaps it was just a screwup from a new employee? Also the stock 4" sheet that this piece was cut from may have another blank available on it, and they just cut another one while having this one fixed, to keep their customer happy.
@@bcbloc02 Also, is a 4" deep annular cutter readily available? That might not exactly be a standard cutter.
1/8 inch clearance that’s crazy
14:56 Reminds me of the scene from the classic movie "Forbidden Planet" where the monster is about to break through the barrier.
Subbed❤
I am amazed no lubricant is used, I know it’s messy but surely would help the cut and prolong tool life ?
+/- an eighth of an inch. That made me lol.
Nice……!!!!!!
Fabulous video Josh ,thank you for sharing. What is the four inch steel plate being used for 🤔. I’m always amazed at how well your drills cut, must be quality steel I guess.
It's a base plate for a structural column.
I feel this video under utilises my left ear.
Nice work and what an amazing massive machine! This is the first video of yours I've seen, so forgive my ignorance... but why not just use a magnetic base drill and 'hole saw' (I'm assuming the hole saw does not need a pilot bit in the center, like a hand-held drill hole saw would). Maybe they don't make the bits to go 4"? I'll be checking out your other videos now!
3 things : 1.Flood cool that endmill 2. get a noga arm or a body camera holder so you can have 2 hands free... too many tools in the sump .. 3. keep it up :D you have nice content :D
That looked ridiculously easy...I would say the biggest job was loading up the plate lol ....nice save
Setup on the hbm is always the hardest part of any job.
Udrills were made for jobs like this!
Whew, good way to snap off the drill tang. But cool heads prevailed.
I've never snapped one off. Slow steady pressure, never forced.
@@TopperMachineLLC I did 55 years ago, never forgot it. We did a weld build up and machined the tang,
Clean the bad side, fill it up with your choice of welding material/process, and drill it like brand new steel
Tell em next time just send you the plate and you can knock the holes in it for em and they won't look terrible, need rework, and will be within tolerance. Your radial arm drill should make pretty quick work of that with flood coolant.
Love the video, hate the change between right channel and stereo audio :(
I would have used my Jancy Slugger with a 2 inch annular cutter. I'm surprised you don't have annular cutters to use in that machine. They work well to alter incorrectly drilled holes too.
I rarely do this kind of stuff. I think the last one was 3 years ago, so having expensive tooling for a rare job just isn't something I want to spend money on. Thanks for watching.
The loud gear noise reminds me of my days learning machining on manual equipment. It is always cool seeing jobs like that where you can salvage an otherwise scrap part.
I have a 1918 Lucas No. 43 HMB I’m fixing up to use. I’m having trouble finding tooling. Mine also has an MT6 spindle taper. Is there any way you could make a video showing how you made that draw key? That would be super helpful. Thanks. Keep up the great videos.
I've had to make and modify so much tooling to get where I am. MT6 is getting harder to find.
how about using a misting lubrication system.....cheap and works well