Jade has been used for various uses for thousands of years. From Jewelry to tools, but is is hard enough to machine metal?
#Machining #Machinist #Engineering
Jade has been used for various uses for thousands of years. From Jewelry to tools, but is is hard enough to machine metal?
#Machining #Machinist #Engineering
Anything crystalline that isn't a monocrystal will shake itself apart when attempting to cut anything hard using typical feed speeds for standard bits. You would likely be able to go much further with the jade endmill by running it 1/10th as fast.
this
Agreed! It feels like the Operator didn't do any post cut analysis of the plastic and wood then went into the aluminum at "full speed" almost as if the Opp was trying to break it.
@@Scott_C To be fair, breaking them was an implied goal and likely inevitable even if they slowed down to completely impractical speeds.
@@teardowndan5364impractical!? What if I’m trying to machine my way out of some sort of Jade prison? Now what’s impractical?
Hear me out. It's not how fast the job gets done. If the tool kept cutting. Steel razors are still inferior to obsidian glass knives in terms of edges and sharpness but obviously obsidian as a crystalline slush formed in a natural volcanic pyroclastic event would result in random cracks . I guess what I'm saying don't give up on this horse. A synthetic jade run at appropriate speed with the right cutting lubricant and monitoring the piezoelectric effect to detect if the crystal is near its fracture limit and possibly possibly. Mill out incredibly accurate stone and ceramic parts using a synthetic jade bit . But requires a system to monitor the temperature and electrical conductivity of the crystal as a signal for fatigue. Possibly even a custom chuck holder thats refrigerated because the nature of that crystal like quartzes is that it dosent make clean cleavage peices it shatters out into deathshards of chaos .. I bet a quartz bit would behave the same way also.
I love the way you all made a "boring" video about endmill geometry and functionality into something much more entertaining. Well done!
To be fair it was still pretty boring. We’ve all seen endmills and the relief on them.
nope it is a boring video...
I've learned more about endmills in this one video than I ever did in school
I like holes should be a good video
I skipped like 1 minute 3 times and I saw still the same video and heared the same words :D Six flutes, notchnes, K lines, becouse of 6 flutes we need K lines or wathever etc etc... this could be a reel.
I work with jade. I’ve machined it but never tried to cut with it. It’s pretty strong due to the crystal structure and is 7 on the Mohs hardness scale, so it’s hard. But the sample used here isn’t the best. You need to try with a piece that doesn’t have that multicolored structure. That’s not as solid as you would want. It would work a “little” better with a less pretty sample that’s just pure green. Rounded flute tips would also work much better. I would also recommend a shorter, much stubbier bit.
i understand that jade is hard but isnt it also very rigid with no flex in the material? i guess what i'm trying to say it that jade is hard but to brittle to do this type of work isnt it?
@@madmurdoch2000 jade has traditionally been used for hammers. It has what’s called a twinned crystal structure which makes it very tough. Sure, I wouldn’t try to use it to make a mill bit with, but it’s also used for knives and such. Milling metals is a very unusual use though. Last time he tried glass. That didn’t work at all.
I feel like a rounded tip would break easier unless no plunging or milling with the tip was done. Even HSS/carbide tools that are ball nose break/dull more easily due to the whole "essentially 0 RPM at the very center thats trying to cut". That being said, i would like to see your example though of good pure jade as opposed to the marbling like impurities. Ever since i learned i can make my own rubies in my garage, its been on my project list to build a hydraulic chamber to try and make a ruby lathe insert tool. I feel like that would have a greater chance at surviving just given what direction the forces would be in. Seeing that jade end mill break in half tells me it really just couldn't take the flexing from that cut. I think he could have gave it more of a fighting chance to actually cut. He basically stacked everything against it by taking what looks like at least a 15 to 20 thou depth of cut and doing climb milling. At least see if it would survive like a 5 thou DOC while convential milling
@@kylewellman402 rounded tips soften the initial jump in cutting force the edge sees. That’s different from a ball mill, which isn’t what I meant. I’m talking about maybe a 0.05” radius at the flute tip. I find that whether HSS or carbide, those last longer. But also, you’re right about the depth of cut. I was going to mention that before, but didn’t. I don’t know what rpm a jade cutter could withstand, but the higher, the better. I don’t see that he tried to determine what the cutter could do. He just took some moderate average setting and went with it.
@@melgross oh gotcha. Like similar to the nose radius on an insert bit as opposed to a sharp nose. Hopefully I'm thinking if that right now. Maybe they should try it again and go to brass first instead of aluminum too. Aluminum is so gummy to cut if you dont have a proper coating meant for aluminum. I seen where when they were inspecting the end mill after it broke there was aluminum imbedded along basically every cutting surface. Im sure these guys at Titan are aware of that. Maybe that is why they chose aluminum for the torture of it 🤔
Use an old Nokia as the end mill
Careful now, dont want to mill hole through reality
LOL
That could never work. How would you grind any flutes in it to begin with?
@@akaHarvesteRIt is the flute lmao
Don't even care if it works, that thing looks sick! Like a poisonous endmill.
+10 poison damage
it technically is poisonous. jade is a type of asbestos.
Please try making one out of carbide. I’ve got a feeling it will work great.
Make one out of Boron Nitride :)
🤣🤣🤣
Silicon carbide would be interesting
Titanium nitrided high speed steel? may be some promise there
Now make one out of a single large quartz crystal.
Then sapphire, then diamond.
With crystalline Al2O3
All of which are very brittle. That's why we don't use quartz in so many places
@@stasi0238Sapphire is Al2 O3. Corundum.
Jade is the most durable of all minerals , its not the hardest but it's the least brittle of all gemstones , quartz is hard but incredibly brittle and will shatter just as easily as glass while jade can be hit with a hammer as hard as you can many times before it will finally split
very low quality jade, and why cutting from the side and so deep like that? Could at least have given it a fighting chance ..
Your right. Now let’s see you do it properly…
@@viggo_wiberg would love to have the equipment to do it
The amount of joy Barry gets from destroying things; warms the cockles of my heart.. even tickles the sub cockles.
The what?
@@marcusrauch4223 hes talking about his nuts
While handicapped people make handicapped faces.
I await the pre cockles
I beg your pardon?
It's all about vibration and tool's resonance frequency , and giving the tool enough time to dampen the vibration, For example glass has very low natural frequency for small stuff between 200-500 Hz Steel has much higher frequency in the KHz range for the same size . Increasing number of flutes decreases overall fluctuation in vibration , but since the flutes are thinner the natural frequency decreases making it more brittle, . For example a glass sheets crack easily a glass cube will not crack easily because it has more girth and more volume to dissipate energy To increase the probability of success using glass or jade feed speed must be ultra slow and maybe make the flute channels narrower to allow for more girth to withstand vibrations also increasing fluting angles will help make forces and vibrations more axially aligned (radial vibrations break tools ) . Tips High helix angles High number of flutes Slow feed rate Narrow channels Maybe bulkier or conical tools
Hardness of the material is important, but not the only important measure. Tensile strength and notch sensitivity are also important. I love your videos and learn a lot.
A future where Kennametal just sells you a CNC program for their endmills
That's more like a trip to the past. In the old days when people set type for printing by hand, type was made out of lead. Since lead is soft it wears out pretty quickly, so a lot of printers just bought molds - they were called matrices - and cast the type they needed for every job.
@@jmowreader9555 Then along came LinoType...
seems like a pretty aggressive cut into that aluminum. looks like it could have made it with less load on the end mill.
wasnt super aggressive, look at the size of those chips, basically powder! though the tool was getting dull too so its hard to tell. But looks like the depth of cut is not even an 1/8th of the diameter deep. Might perform better with different speeds/feeds, but that cut into aluminum was pretty mild.
Looked like it was dulling too fast. I think they could have made it 3-4x farther with the correct speeds and feeds, but that's still not much
@@toshinakae6397 I think he meant by aggressive meaning it really needed to be slow The feed was too high in my opinion as well.
At the end of the day tho... it's just not a viable or effective alternative.
Hardness doest = durable. Otherwise we'd use diamonds and quartz for a lot more. And before you comment, no diamonds really aren't that rare.
Materials I'd like to see turned into tools. Obsidian, rock, petrified wood (you can petrify by soaking in water for several months) and gems such as Sapphire, Emerald, Topaz, Ruby and Amethyst.
theres also a lot of natural petrified wood you can get online thats fully harded into rock
Petrified wood isn’t just soaked. You just get soaked wood. It’s when the wood is replaced by minerals over long time. You can force that process, but it’s not the same thing.
@@melgross Months, millions of years, what's the difference? 😀I'm currently cutting a 42" diameter 60" long petrified wood log into slabs... have all the slabs cut, doing the polishing now. The petrified wood is pretty much pure quartz. It's the hardest stuff I've cut and is brutal on my diamond tools.
@@GregsStoneYard because it takes a long time for mineralization to take place. We worked on trying to make a petrified wood using some modern techniques, but it doesn’t produce a compactified deposit. It needs to happen very slowly. Even though we used dissolved minerals, and heat and pressure, it just doesn’t produce actual rock but a more crumbly substance. The real thing is a very nice material, but it’s true, it’s brutal on tooling. It’s very tough and breaks the diamond right off the blades.
@@melgross vac chamber cycling then high temp baking and another few vac cycles perhaps would speed it up?
It's crazy how much you know about endmills 😂 Great video, love listening to people who know what they are talking about.
Appreciate you running through the CAD at the beginning. A lot of pop engineering channels skip over that stuff, but that's what I'm interested in seeing. Also, Barry is such a card. Love the energy he brings😂
If you haven't done it yet you need to make a endmill out of sapphire crystal. Lab produced sapphire is already the perfect shape and being just under diamond in hardness should make it interesting.
I love how you guys are asking the serious questions 😂 👍
i would buy this as a dekor for my desk! love it
In case you missed it... They created a 6 flute jade endmil and put a kayland on it with a notch...
That was pretty wild. It's also good that this is now a known tech, there might be some material in the future that requires a jade cutting edge.
I have been making natural sharpening stones and I think it is pretty amazing what can be done with stone tools once you learn the properties and geometry to mitigate the weaknesses of stone. I keep getting surprised with how difficult it can be to work with hard stone, even with modern tools.
One of the best video ideas I have ever seen, awesome!
these grinding videos are sick
would love to see more optimizations for crystal endmills. I imagine wider, shorter, more flutes, less sharp angles, etc
i didnt expect to meet you here! well, i did! but still in shock!
Y’all crazy over there! Nice video. Everyone loves Chris 💪🔥
That was cool seeing the operations needed. Thanks
Try ruby or sapphire next. The man made ones with no flaws. I think they call them a boule. At least they have a hardness close to carbide and a uniform crystal should give it more toughness
Chris always getting creative with his grinds!
What an interestingly cool video!! Nice one Chris and Nate!
Third time is a charm!! You’re getting closer, Chris!!! I can’t wait to see what you come up with next. 😁
I wonder what “part materials” could cut. For instance, maybe inconel could cut aluminum
Guys, you have to use coolant when you milling alluminium material 🥲Thus, you can extend the life of the cutting edges by preventing sticking chips from being deposited edges of the endmill.
I have an idea! 1) Make a hybrid endmill from tungsten carbide or something like inconel 2) cut flute sections from a hard crystal like Mossanite. Or synthetic sapphire. 3) braze flute sections into the metal core, then finish cut the whole mill on the grinder. Tough, shock resilient core with super hard edges…use it any non-ferrous. Material with coolant…it will last!!!
I bet it lasts longer than your Kore 5 in aluminum if the brazing is strong enough!
A super fine grit mill driven finishing stone would be interesting for the leftover piece. If a h13 steel core was added for support could actually be a fine tool.
You should grind the od's from shank to end of tool, your wheel will stay sharper longer. Lower your plunge percentage so it doesn't jam into the tool.
I carve pounamu, its a type of jade only found here in new zealand. I was actually surprised how well this held up! Great video!
That shop is gorgeous!
NGL these would be neat gifts for machinists!
I really was rooting for that little endmill! Keep on going trying materials! Thumbs up!
Just got to do a jade tool and add some diamond dust on the cutting edges. You got this.
Does Machinery's Handbook have suggested feeds and speeds for jade endmills?
this is nice for some labs I imagine, in the case of needing different bits that won't shed particulates that would be reactive in nature of whatever goal they are attempting to achieve. ie. metal shedding from a bit and bonding with processing materials before intended reaction can take place.
Nice video .. how did you determine the cutting conditions for a tool not in the market without the research behind it? What was the rpm or fz used in this experiment? for machinist it would have been interesting seen this values on screen .. thank you, it was entertaining seen how you took the time to make the endmill
"Because it is a natural mineral, it will have a mohs hardness of 6 to 7" Diamond and ruby are natural minerals that are mohs 10 and 9 respectively. A "natural mineral" doesnt have a hard and fast rule like that...
This is just a random thought, but if you tried to do conventional milling instead of climb milling. I think it might have survived the aluminum since the force on the tool while climb cutting are a lot higher.
I should send you my wife's roast beef. lol
Would make a good end mill?
@@MF175mp Toughest substance known to man 🙂
Thanks for showing Walter Grinder programming, I am just starting programming ours for our regrind shop on the same Grinders. We have trouble getting the K land adjusted in correctly. How are you doing the K land? Our process was programmed to K Land with a differ wheel than the gashing wheel, so it makes it hard to adjust them both. I’m am thinking about changing it to rough and finish the path, dedicating a rough gashing wheel and a finish gashing wheel. I think that if the same wheel does the gash and the L land on the point angle edge it will be easier for the team to control. It will just be a matter of wheel wear then. Let me know your thoughts on this.
One of the greatest machines ever made a CNC machine too bad you can find a diamond that big to do that to . My dad was a machinist & he knew all the secrets on how to run a CNC machine beyond its full potential , even the people who made the CNC machine he ran at that time couldn’t believe how he did it & they asked him to show them how he did it , seriously , my dad was a mathematical genius when it came down to CNC machines I watched him first hand do his magic with one . All the things he created out of different metals was nuts . My dad ran CNC machines for well over 40 years with G.E. , Meyer Tool , Fan Egan , & other company’s in Cincinnati , Ohio .
I’m curious what the flute rake is vs the k land rake. I work in cutting tool manufacturing and just found your channel, cool stuff!
I resin printed a 2 flute em out of htmv 140 v2 (ceramic like) Envisiontec material but no sharp edges but curious if it could be sharpened
How much is the raw material for the jade and the price for end if it would be manufactured? It cut delrin they did should how well but if it's cheaper to manufacture then carbide and HSS might ne with it
i would expect the jade to be cheap, but the time and energy gone into it the same as carbide-that would last decades longer than jade, means its not a good material for a cutter :)
Jade prices are insanely wild, and based on quality/shape. Can range anywere from $3 per carat to millions per carat
You make great videos, it would be very interesting if you showed the method used to achieve a very tight tolerance on the first try such as a G6 on an internal diameter of 20mm for example, with a tool which has just been gauged and which It doesn't have any proofreaders yet.
Would like to see hard minerals optimized. Lab ruby, sapphire. Machine speed, feed rate, depth of cut, twist on the cutting edge. Do a core bit of mineral, fed with grit too.
Would love to see you guys do one out of sapphire, and one out of aluminum oxynitride 👍
Looks like a work of art!
Do an endmill of hardened polyester next! I work with polyester in my restoration projects and I'd really love to see how it'd hold up as an endmill. Although I imagine it will behave like quite a brittle material in a high-torque high-speed operation.
If you slow down the piece going into the drill bit but keep the bit speed up, I bet it will cut n not break also a shorter jade piece n it will work.
Try with a large ruby. Conundrum is even harder. If your lucky u can still find large dirty 1 piece crystals around natural or make one with a induction setup and aluminum oxide
This just made my day👍
I think you should have mentioned the Startec tools twice as often... I have no idea what they currently cost but you could get a sapphire alloy phone screen blank that hasn't been sliced up yet and have a go with it. They come in about 3"9"10" but might be veeeery pricey.
what chair is this at 7:51?^^
The probe shot at around 1:15 looks like it collided with the workpiece pretty quickly. What happened?
How did you determine feeds and speeds?
Looks like the aluminum started to gall before it broke (sticking to the cutter). The galling would have loaded down the bit. Would cutting with fluid or a different bit geometry prevent the galling?
Excellent Voice, demonstrations, visualization and explanations - You do repeat facts/things over multiple times which makes this video a bit long - I am intrigued by the subject/ thumbnail with this is trimmed a bit it would be perfect - Great video and if you need to do it to make it longer for monetization reasons then no biggy -> u do what you gotta do - Cheers
Im not an expert of cuting tool materials, but my guess about the faliure of this one is related to the sise of the Jade grains. Smaler the grain, biger te bond betwin them. Does it make any sense?
i would love to have this piece, it looks so cool and i love the basic pieces of jade that i have. if you see this and are ever thinking of parting with it i would like a shot at it. You atleast have a subscriber from me lol, keep up the content
You should sell some of them it looks awesome as decorations
I missed it what wheel did he use for steps 1-2
The amount of knowledge behind this for essentially brand new technology is impressive, there's 3d modelling, obviously some proprietary gcode, feed speeds, material knowledge, simulations (and the tool knowledge about endmills). I hope there's a better title than "machinist" for this job.
How often do you guys actually grind custom end mills?
Could you make one out of moissanite (silicon carbide)?
Hi guys I saw this video and I think I might be able to make this endmill run in my new line of tool holders it would be interesting to try this endmill because the thing that caused the failure is the standard concentricity that you get in an ER collet holder. I think that the failure was due to being off in runout and the harmonics are off because of this. even if this endmill is off by .0002" or more it would probably fail.
The most beautiful endmill
I’ll see you guys at the Kennametal roadshow! I’m a Kennametal applications engineer, and I’m working the event
What do you plan on cutting with this?
You should have done an old school star trek enterprise glamour camera pass of that bit once it was finished 😳 That thing was a work of art 😔 RIP .
Man when he said j made me feel like I was watching how to make a joint tutorial 😂
I would love to buy a couple of those Endmills as a conversation piece. They are Beautiful.
Obviously when making a tool it's not just hardness that counts. There are many other material properties that need to be considered like tensile strength, compressive strength, elastic modulus, etc. These tests on various minerals are pointless, but I guess it's good content for social media.
The outer harmonic forces are a tricky dilemma you have to consider when making bits, that's the majority of why these break. Higher density and less space between the molecules are going to be the money when it comes to any type of drill bit. The jade could be a decant bit, just not by itself as a material, though I've never worked with jade. I'd guess if you could combine it somehow with another material it could be viable on certain aluminum's. Neat venture into jade tooling guys thanks!
If you want to make a habit of cutting jade, just make sure to take all respiratory precautions. The dust from jade is as bad as asbestos, apparently. Great glimpses into your world though! I've just started work delivering alloys to fabrication workshops, so I'm getting curious about this sort of thing.
Interesting to see how you machine that end mill, the tooling I use is similar to that only a much sharper twist, press tools for forging helical gears. I was told they machine them on an EDM machine though. I don’t know what grade of steel it is though tbh. We can’t use carbide because of the heat, 1800F + or -
You tried to cut solid piece of metal with a Jade stone endmill it was gonna break but maybe concrete or bricks may just cut fine instead since they are just right in-between the line of solid as steel but softish like wood & plastic. You basically gave a strong enough material like Block of aluminum or any similar metal for the Jade endmill to cut-rub and vibrate like crazy on letting all the vibration from metal cutting to go right through the Jade endmill and crack it through inside out. Maybe if you make another Jade endmill drill a hole in the center of the cylinder through it's length drill it's center out and add a metal pin or long screw through the middle of the Jade endmill to dampen all the vibration going through it and increase it's sheer strength of the overall jade endmill. This method of putting a metal pin or screw through the center of a soft material dealing with high torque or high sheer strength loads also works for 3d Printed FDM & Resin printed parts especially for 3D printed tyre wheels that deal with high torque output of electric motors right into tyres which without a metal pin/screw will just sheer the center of the printed wheel making the whole wheel useless.
Would gem-quality or lab-created stones work better since they have fewer flaws? Something like lab created sapphire rods?
Try Ruby ranks 9 on the Mohs hardness scale
I'd like to see if it is possible to grid/machine Alon..
Would be cool if you made a CNC-version of an ancient Egyptian tube drill. They used those for hours and days to cut holes into hard rocks like granite. I bet you could cut down the work time a lot, and maybe use your expertise to add some bells and whistles to it too.
you should try making one out of a synthetic ruby laser rod
I second this
This is incredible. Gashing is my new favorite word
Can I ask what your quoting process is like? How fast do you turn an inquiry into a quote ?
Do a Sapphire endmill its pretty hard, then try depleated uranium, tungsten would be cool also but I dont know if you could do it.
An interesting material to try would be basalt, it is from my understanding basically a manufactured rock like material that they actually make rebar out of, it's flexible like steel rebar but will not take a permanent bend like steel and has good tensile strength. With it's relative hardness and flexibility it might work on aluminum at least longer than jade and glass.
basalt is a volcanic rock, not man-made.
@@BeetleBuns They manufacture products made using basalt, not sure how they do it though but yes it is a naturally occurring rock so I did misspeak.
@@phillhuddleston9445 ohhhhh got it, thought you were saying the rock itself was man made lol
I'd like to see you make some inserts.
Sweet! Another video to answer a question I never asked. All hail the algorithm.
*BRUH* the noise the glass drill bit made when it died as it touched the metal made it *1000X FUCKING FUNNIER XD*
The structural integrity of the core is just not there; if it was a composite of something to make the overall blank less frangible, it seems the hardness is there. How about a steel rod with the end bored or splined out with a Jade cylinder inserted/bonded into it then ground; steel structural rigidity, capturing the hardness and geometry of the jade.
I wonder- if you could somehow produce synthetic jade without all the inconsistencies, how might that work? Although, I've never heard of synthetic Jade (maybe it exists?). Neat video! How about Sapphire?
I have been making natural sharpening stones and experimenting with different hard stones. I think stone works best for cutting with wide angles for the cutting edge and a lot of mass behind that edge to prevent shearing of the stone. So maybe a single edge end mill with 90 degree cutting edge and very shallow flute might work alright. Maybe in Texas Chert, it is very hard and very tough, it is the hardest stone I’ve worked with and even diamond grinding is not easy for me with it.
Im surprised the six flute got as far as it did. A stone endmill might also need to be a lot shorter with so much torque generation.