Setting Up A Massive Face Mill For The Horizontal Boring Mill - Manual Machine Shop
After years of searching, I have finally found all of the pieces to make a big face mill for the Lucas Horizontal Boring Mill. No more big fly cutters for me, maybe.
The setup of this cutter didn't go as planned. Many hickups along the way, but it is finally together and ready to start using.
A very special thank you to Kyle @VanoverCustoms for offering this amazing 10" face mill to me.
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Thermal shock of carbide inserts used to be a problem 40years ago ,but things have changed
Wow this is some old school stuff, it's like going back in time
YES! We have ALL had one of those days! You powered through it admirably!
that cutter head looks like it was hard as 'Chinese Algebra'
I feel better now - I am not the only one. I had a 20 minute job changing bushes and ball joints on the front suspension of a locally made 2006 Australian Ford car 4 days ago. 3 1/2 hrs later it was done, even though I have a well equipped home workshop of mechanical and machining eqpt. Took quite some creativity to R&R the parts. Also have had some machining jobs which have similar predicted to actual time ratio. Frustrating but sometimes you have to do just what you have to do. Take care. Retired mechanic/machinist in Land Down Under.
I quit working on vehicles several years ago. I still do the commercial trucks and heavy equipment, but small vehicles are an absolute nightmare. Around here the road salt makes it almost impossible to work on anything without huge piles of rust. Several of the shops have set rates they can charge, so if a 20 minute job takes 8 hours, it still only costs the 20 minute price.
@@TopperMachineLLC Those shops with set rates either choose to refuse those jobs or go out of business - you just can't keep doing that. In their own employment the owners of those vehicles get paid regardless if a job takes longer than expected. Why should they think that working on something that is that bad, that those doing the work should only be paid "non salt road affected job" rate. I also underquote at times but if something like that occurs then either the customer understands or they go elsewhere. Luckily that 3 1/2 job was for a friend who returns the favour when I need work on the house. No money changes hands. Also he was hands-on here all the way through the job and understands all it took to do the job.
@TopperMachineLLC That's called flat rate when a shop charges that way. In my younger years, I worked as a mechanic at a John Deere dealership and also a New Holland dealership. The New Holland dealership charged a flat rate for repairs. The manufacturer determines how long a repair should take. It isn't even the shop that determines how long it should take. Even when a shop doesn't charge by the flat rate, it still tries to stay very close to the suggested time estimates. As a mechanic, you better be able to get your work done pretty close to that time. Those shops that charge flat rate aren't really in danger of going broke. You have to remember that if they're charging $100 an hour for labor, they are probably paying the mechanic less than $20 an hour. Some of the recommended times were almost impossible to achieve even after I had done the same job 3 or 4 times. There were others that we could find shortcuts for, and make the company a lot of money. For every job you took a beating on, you would have three or four that you came out extremely well on.
Days when nothing works ain't that bad. I mean there ain't going to be any surprises.
Absolutely. Always expect the worst, never be disappointed.
4:41...that's exactly what I was thinking: use the tailstock...(!)
Clamp a lathe tool to your table and machine the face true with spindle rotation.
Yes that will make every cutter take the same depth of cut . Some times one just has to make it good enough to get the job done now and move on and then make make it better later some day in the future . I always learn something watching you. Keep up the great work .
Non paying jobs get pushed back until there is time. This one took way longer than expected, so had to be finished up to move on. It will get some rework, but at least it's mostly there.
Nicely sized facemill for your horizontal boring machine. Can't wait to see it make some chips
Thanks for sharing
Nice work. Thank you for going the apprenticeship way..
Your choice of beer is top notch! My favorite as well. Well deserved after this job.
That’s how it goes some days, good job. Envious of the horizontal
Yeah you have to check that stuff
You are a master of your trade.
Nice work
I like all the technical terms in the description of removal - some time when it starts out hard - it usually goes to the wire in similar vein. I enjoyed the video even if you were unsure of it. Good onya
Man if only I had a HBM like that! I desperately need one for some of the work we see, just don't have room for one..... I've got a 10" Kennametal facemill similar to that for the big Cincy. It was also a bit of a project to set up. The #4 had the spindle nose tapped to bolt the facemil directly on, but had no means of aligning it. I ended up turning an old Weldon shank holder into a centering arbor. Cut off the flange, shortened the holder portion, and turned it to match the ID of the facemill. Hold that in the spindle with the drawbar, slip the facemill on, and then bolt it to the spindle. Was a bit of a pain in the ass, but it works well enough. Sure saves time squaring up big parts.
Good job, enjoy your videos
Hi Josh.....Appreciating your vids here. So everything is not going to plan....taking up extra time for a peanut job...but be honest: You love getting it done right the first time :)
Great content,and perseverance!
I feel ya brother
Thank you for going the apprenticeship way.
I ran the same mill when I worked in a shop in Indiana best boring mill iv ever used
Man, those are some tiny machines and cutter. How do you get any real work done?! LOL Great content. Always enjoy your videos and always learn something.... mostly I learn I have no idea what I am doing!
Good Stuff
Josh, just a thought, adapting the arbor to fit the industry standard cutter might have been a better idea. Turning the bolt pattern enough. This way it will fit all industry standard cutters. ;-)
I considered that, but would also have to mill a new slot for the drive bar. Being hard, that may not have gone well. This was a simple solution for a one time build.
@@TopperMachineLLC Indeed, that would have increased the complexity a lot.
Imagine a guy comes into your work and tells you how to do your job, never considering there might be a rhyme to your reason. Better to drill 4 holes than to hard mill a new slot and hard drill 4 holes for a cutter specific arbor. He would have spent more time re-grinding drills and buying end mills doing it that way...
@@Airtight215 You are right. I'm trying to learn from Josh. Why he makes a choice is part of me learning. I can formulate is more as a question.
Tough job for sure! Anytime I suppose that the task at hand is going to take x amount of time I can tack on at least another hour or two. Thanks for sharing.
Need you some Kem tool carbide insert Milling
Mount a lathe bit on the table and true it to the machine spinde .
I will actually be doing that. Just ran out of time and energy on this one. Needed to be done to move on to other jobs.
nice work there like your videos so have added my subscription to the list am weighting on the saw mill extension to be finished as i wont to see the 20 footer go through just love the work you do good honest stuff and the how to is explained so we can all understand how and why you do it like you do Cheers Mate
We just sawed the log, so editing will be soon. Hopefully next Tuesday!
Nice cutter , it would fit my milling machine well ! I would probably true up the face of the arbor one day , you will probably get jack of changing the same three inserts all the time !!! Cheers 👍👍👍
Hi Max, we think along the same lines. Cheers Ian
It is liable to be a stepped insert mill anyway. Most of the big ones I find like that are.
I’m laughing, not at you, but with you, because nearly every one of my projects goes the same way . . . I’m on the verge of using my HBM for the first time. Got a project in that requires resizing a bunch of pin bores . . . Fun Fun.
GREAT VIDEO 🏆🏆🏆🏆
Wow Josh, That is definitely a BEAST, ughhhhhhhhh....hate to say it but I was 1/2 expecting the carbide mill to destruct, the 6 flute saved the day finally but breathed its last breath in doing so....LUCKILY...how you were able to baby it and complete the job is due to your astute experience and talent as a MASTER machinist......GREAT GREAT JOB......hats off to you on this one..... Don
hello josh it's is randy and i like yours video is cool thanks josh friends randy
This was a cool project and it looked like it had some challenges
ending was the best part..lol looking good.
Hi thanks for doing more content i like watching what you do im from Australia
I just needed a good break to get caught up a bit. More videos are coming. Lots of cool stuff in the works.
That was a job well done I'm retired now but that's the kinda jobs I did most of my career had a machine shop done lots of work modifying old tooling to work with newer stuff on coneamatic multi spindle screw machines and yes it seems like most days you have a 30 min. Job take half a day especially when it is retrofitting like the machinist that trained me said boy if it was easy everybody would be doing it how right he was I watched another one of your videos that lasted about 30 min. And tried real hard to find something legitimate to catch you on I think it was a stub shaft you turned down out of 1045 instead of boring a hole and welding a shaft in it great job on that one too going to be watching more in the future great job
I would have modified the homemade taper . Something happens to that the cutter won't fit a new one .
That's a masive Cutter almost as big as your head! I thought it was a cool project and i don't care that it took that much time. Yea I know you care but I enjoyed watching. Thanks for sharing hope to see it in action
Can't you face the holder in the hbm and make it perfect? Watch and like your channel
Josh, yes, those days come too often for me where every thing turns to poo..... but you managed to make a silk purse from a sows ear.......Bravo......Paul
Yep, got a Sandvig 80 tooth 10” face mill and a 50 taper holder, but no machine to run it 😂 no way in hell am I converting down, the machines we have can’t handle that much torque requirement, though it would be somewhat entertaining to try and run one on a r8 or a Haas TM1 from the 90’s. Our horizontal would flip out with overload on y alarms with a cutter that heavy! You’ve got some precious equipment Mr. Topper.
I'd give that a go on something of mine. Did you see the video I did with the 5" face mill on the 1HP Bridgeport? It handled it, but not huge cuts. It would be fun to try it.
Horses for courses. No way id put bigger than 2 inches into R8 Bridgeport it will knock the shit out of it. Only use these in bed type mills with 40 International spindle or bigger.
I took a six in long slug and made it fit the spindle (not the bar) I the made the end to fit the cutter. This was much more ridged than working off the bar. I can make some heavy cuts and I get great finishes. This is on a Lucas like yours
It's really annoying when something that looks straightforward ends up having all sorts of issues and needs a lot of modifications. I've had this sort of thing happen to me also. But it's just a matter of persisting with it and getting it right in the end. It will be interesting seeing you make that tool holder from that massive block of steel.
Good job and with every problem we encounter lies an opportunity to be creative. "Damn, that material was harder than Chinese Algebra!"
Go big or go home, but it looks great.
Great video! That is a big facemill. With the 5/8” carbide end mill, I would generally recommend not using oil on it. The thermal shock usually will lead to chipping.
Well I wouldn't recommend dry. So we'll call it a draw.
@@TheMetalButcher gents would flood coolant be good for it just asking is all i think it need some thing
We used to use dry.
Holy _hit!! 💩 Thanks for the video. Can hardly wait to see it in use.
😂😂😂 just stumbled on this one brilliant
If I'm bored, I might clean every part of these machines, because the process of cleaning things will be very healing, especially because I like big machines, hahaha, and I like your explaining videos very much, so let me become your subscriber
strewth, you would need to talk to the bank manager about a loan to replace all the cutters on that monster!
Lol, it's really not that bad. 12 inserts, about $15.00 each.
I ran a 8-inch boring mill and once in a while we used a 30 inch diameter milling head.
Theres a name for this. I call it "the third logical extension to Murphy's law when applied to a supposedly simple job" . The law itself states "what can go wrong will and those that shouldn't go wrong will find the most fiendish way to do the same." Anyone who's worked around a shop of almost any description has a "Murphy" sitting on his shoulder. You can't see the little bugger but he's there just waiting. Good rescue Josh even if it did take two cutter to do it. Now lets see that sucker work. Regards from Canada's banana belt.🤞🇨🇦🍌🥋🇺🇦🕊️🇺🇲💩👍
To expand our tool selection in our Lucas we have a #6 taper to cat50 made. Is a game changer.
I have a 6MT to 50 flash change, but finding those is difficult. I have a few now, but I also just picked up a 6MT to 2" Weldon. With all sizes of folders and TG100 & 150 holders.
I had to check a bit more close what brand of beer that was. To watch or not to watch depended on it. I did watch 👍🏻
Lol. I was given this case of Grain Belt. I'm a Miller High Life, Hamm's, and Michelob Amber Bock kind of guy. But, I have to admitt, this is pretty good.
I was hoping to see that new face tool do some cutting. That would be nice to see.
Soon, I plan to use it soon.
Don't you love those 15 minute jobs that end up taking all day! To true arbors, I've clamped down on a carbide turning tool in the vise and faced and trued to my machine while arbor was in the spindle. Like you said, it was close enough!
Close enough for the first job. It will get tried up eventually, when needed. It's a little hard to put a tool in the video, when I've never had a vise on this machine. Seriously, not once in 8 years of owning it. I could clamp it to an angle plate or something else. Someday
Looks great but i still have one question, why didn’t you surface the arbor before installing the milling head? The fact that it will wobble will negate the cutting ability of some of the inserts and throw off the speed/feed settings. In effect you will only have a glorified fly cutter.
I really hope that face mill didn’t have “SIP” stamped on it! Good work making it fit your application though 👍
Sumitomo
That cutter head is left handed. In other words spins counter clockwise. Prob originally bought for a straddle mill with two opposing spindles. Should be a good head. looked like adjustable pockets. Should rough and take finish cut very well. Very Nice
was in antigo WI, recently. That's near you.
Around 3-4 hours away yet. I'm much further north and west.
I screwed up years ago when "polishing" a piece in a lathe and really messed up my thumb when the emory grabbed and in went my thumb. An old machinins told me that running the lathe in reverse will help you avoid getting your thumbs buggered up. buggered up fingers are easier to work with than the thumb. He also said any job done well deserves th be painted purple, well I did once and purple didn't bring a rise from my nephew, damn.
I had one close call, then learned how to safely hold the emery cloth. Usually the danger is in having your fingers too close to the part.
seen a mist cooler on abom seventy nine years ago before the new shop
I never liked using the mist, because you breathe that in. But it is definitely a necessary evil at times. It improved the slotting jobs immensely
At 14:00 you talk about how it's a ton of little things. The technical term for that is called "Yak-shaving". And when they stack, it becomes "Recursive Yakshaving". I think my ancestors have angered God(s), a witch.. something. Because every aspect of my life is Yakshaving, nothing can ever just 'happen'. So I feel ya bud
4:10...AW, KNOCK IT OFF-(?)
No chips at the end, thats disappointing. I would have changed the hole pattern on the home made adapter, how are the odds you never buy or get another big cutter?
Been there, done that. Some days it feels like your wheels are stuck in reverse. Simplest jobs can turn into hours.
It is my general observation that the threshhold of being driven to drink is often quite low.
Especially more so in our current world.
And work is the curse of the drinking class.
lucas. Known as the left handed horizontal boring mill because it faces the opposite way of a G&L boring mill.
The Lucas makes more sense to me than the others. It's like a lathe. The spinny part is on your left and the work is on the right. Lol
@@TopperMachineLLC That was the thoughts about it back in the 70's. The G&L is built sturdier. We had one sitting on 6 foot depth of reinforced concrete. Also saw one at Westingbouse that the operator rode in a cage attached to the head. Used for maching ship props.
Nice job, that stuff looked really tough to cut through. What I also noticed: is this a left hand tool? What's the purpose of that? Definitely have to keep that in mind or you'll get into lots of trouble :D
Not a good start to Arbour- Cutter marriage, hope they dont have kids 😕. Nice addition to the shop. Thanks for sharing
Weld it on, probably going to be the last time you're going to use that unit anyhow
"LIKE" button has been torqued to the manufacturer's recommended specification. "CLICK". God forbid you should be running around with a loose "LIKE" button !
MR TOPPLER THANK YOU AGAIN FOR FIXING AUDIOS. SO NICE TO LISTEN TOYOUR STATION WITH OUT GETTING BLASTED OUT BY THE COMMERCIANS BEING SO LOUD. BUT THE FOUL LANGUAGE IN THIS EPISODE. WAS THAT REALLY NECESSARY? OTHER THAN THAT KEEP UP GOOD WORK KEEP THE GOOD VIDEOS COMING. GOD BLESS BORTHER.
What some view as foul, most view as normal daily language. What do viewers want? Fake people doing work or the real person's personality coming through.
I'm using Firefox and Adblock Plus. No commercials! I've not found his audio to be too problematic, I listen on my hearing aids through the Bluetooth connection, and there is a volume limiter which helps flatten out the peaks. Alas, in some settings, a few salty epithets helps things fit, and even a hearty "My Stars and Garters!" just doesn't work. While Mr. Topper may be guilty of the occasional opprobrious epithet, he doesn't use them as punctuation as a certain other KZhead machinist. (His wife ought to rinse out his mouth with PineOPine). So I'll grant Mr. Topper a little Christian forgiveness, his other good works way over balances the verbal persuasions.
@@TopperMachineLLC I WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE THE REAL PERSON. I'M NOT GOING TO STOP WATCHING JUST BECAUSE YOU SWEAR. STILL A LOT BETTER THAN ALL THE RAPS THESE KIDS ARE LISTENING TO. NOW THAT'S EXTREMELY FOUL AND OFFENSE AND JUST CAN'T LISTEN TO THAT. THANK YOU FOR BEING REAL MR TOPPLER GOD BLESS
@@jackjohnson6074 Rap is just a shortened word for Crap. It is far from music, and you're 100% correct on it being foul and offensive. It should be outlawed.
I had a # 5 taper large drill 2.25" I had to machine down the taper to 1" round. It was HARD drill stock. Carbide inserts barley wanted to work on the lathe, I was taking like .005" cuts at a time, took forever. It was chuched up in a 3 jaw chuck on the drill flutes, dangerous but the only way I had. No fun!
I had a job one time turning 5" induction hardened shaft down to 4". It had a Keyway, so interupted cut wasn't going to be good on the proper grade of inserts. I used TPG 432, 22rpm, 0.010 feed, 0.010DOC. I had to grind the inserts to a large radius to hold up. Every pass was a regrind. That job was a emergency job for a new customer, landed me everything out of their facility ever since. But, that was a rough job.
Things taking way longer than expected? I have that all the time.
Drinking the premium because we ping on low octane.
I think I would have leaned towards making a new arbor to fit the new cutter head. But I tend to be a glutton for punishment.
Do you work with much inconel ?
Does this make since Maki g a tool with a cutting Dia this big when the stem to rotate this is a fraction of the size,
It drove you to drink? Did it drive you home, too?
All my simple should-be-quick jobs run over.
Tip runout?
Forgive my ignorance. Was it worth the effort to make the larger face mill to work than making multiple passes with the smaller mill?
After removing the rust and crud, wound have lightly hand stoned the tapered shaft to improve its geometry / flatness.
Some things get edited out. I actually did some indicating and trying of the taper.
@@TopperMachineLLC That's good. Sorry if came across as a bit nitty picky ! I've only recently started using precision ground stones, and blueing. The taper did sound right slapping into the holder. That surface mill looks like it's capable of some heavy work.
Josh, are you still able to get inserts for this facemill? When I got my HBM the previous owner gave me the three face mills that he had got when he bought it. I ended up scrapping them as you couldn't get inserts for them (they were probably all over 40 years old). It was too bad as one was about 12" in diameter. Ken
That was the first thing I checked. Everything is still available. I have had tooling over the years that I bought like you're talking. All went into the scrap bin. I probably could have sold them, but why put someone else through that.
Would that same mist coolant system work for a bandsaw? It seems like a much better solution than flooding coolant. Did you make that mist system? Btw, great video, I have subscribed now.
I'm sure it would work on the bandsaw. I bought it from KBC Tiool
I don't know why you didn't redrill and tap the arbor to suit the cutter. I worked for Seco Tools Sweden for 28 years and our cutters are all heat treated so I thought this was going to be tough for you. Not sure what brand it is but it looks similar to a high rake cutter we used to offer. I notice yours is also LH? I would strongly suggest you face the front of the arbor as any run out will lead to unbalanced insert wear both radially and axially and the surface finish will be poor. Hope this helps. Cheers Ian New Zealand
I considered redrilling the arbor, but then I'd have to cut a new slot for the drive bar. As the arbor was hardened, it made more sense to modify the cutter. Future rework is in order, but may be a ways out with other things taking priority. It is a Sumitomo.
Your show but.?...... I would put those washers on before using!! Not much contact area under those cap screws!! Better safe than sorry!!!😊
I did, had to order some in. SAE washers are not available at my local hardware store.
I NEED one of those old Johnson band saws. Looks like the front of an old chevy or something. EDIT; hearing how smooth and quiet your bridgeport is really makes me realize how terrible mine sounds. My BP is NOT enjoyable to use, I hate working on that machine, it shakes, rattles, thumps, vibrates, and just makes a hellish cacophony that's exhausting to even be next to. I really need to either get rid of that machine, or tear it down and fix it I guess.
Bearings. Lots of bearings. I replace mine every couple years.
At the average machine shop rate of $150 an hour, was it really worth it to make those work together?
Yes it was. I now have a $3000 tool that cost me 5 hours and $200 for the arbor.
Like my dad always told me…. When you make shit outa shit your gunna get shit 😂 Fun project tho! If it was easy everyone would be doing it . Keep the cool videos coming!
Unfortunately, finding any 6MT tooling is hard and you take what you can get. But, it will work for my intended purpose and any future jobs.
@@TopperMachineLLC haha I’m just giving you shit. Making tooling is fun. Not many people even try anymore. I think what your doing is great and I enjoyed watching. To me its more fun to do and to watch people making things fit together that aren’t supposed to rather than just plug and play stuff.
@@redmorphius I enjoy making tools. Spent many years making punch press tooling. Some complex stuff. So much fun.
But Grain Belt?? I was forced to drink that when I was young till I finally turned 21 and could choose for myself. To each there own but ??? 🤔
Is that reclaimed oil you are using as cutting oil/coolant there?/
No, something with the lighting in here makes it look like it is.
Whatever can go wrong- it will.😵💫
Murphys law.
josh..i am having to make. a dove tail cutter there are plenty on the market .. but none. with inserts .. so theres a market out there. my lathe and mill are both morse taper 2 do you in yankee land have such items ?if you could only purchase one i would willing pay for it and postage ! best regards.from robin hood country laurence