Is NPD *Really* a Mental Illness?
In this episode, Dr. Ettensohn lays the misconception that NPD is not a mental illness to rest. Using criteria established by the American Psychiatric Association (APA), he demonstrates that NPD is a mental illness by definition, and also because NPD causes significant changes in thinking, feeling, and/or behavior; and creates distress and/or problems functioning in social, work or family activities.
The video also defines Pathological Narcissism as a broad term that describes narcissistic disturbance and that may be present in numerous mental disorders, including major depression, bipolar disorders, psychosis, and other personality disorders besides NPD.
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References:
American Psychiatric Association. (2022). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed., text rev.).
Pincus, A. L., & Lukowitsky, M. R. (2010). Pathological Narcissism and Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Annual Review of Clinical Psychology, 6(1), 421-446.
Yeah, I have been seeing people online twist language around NPD a lot in recent times. It needs cleared up quickly because it does more harm than good.
100%. Thanks for watching.
It seems as though channels are attempting to define NPD to fit their agendas.
NPD is a form of mental instability...
@@healnpdPlease record more often. Thank you ❤
“I hope this clears up any confusion” very classy 👏🏼
Boom.
I can't begin to express how grateful I am for this channel. As far as reliable, unbiased sources on NPD go, I think you're the best on this site. As an individual with NPD, I am so glad you decide to make these videos. Thank you.
Wow, thank you!
Oh my goodness thank you for this video. People double down that personality disorders aren’t mental illnesses, like we’re choosing these symptoms. I just recently educated people with bipolar disorder who minimized the experiences of those of us with personality disorders. I love you for your work 🥲
Thanks for your feedback. Glad to know this one feels helpful. :)
So my narcissitic grandma was right all this time... I'm possesed by a demon, not shredded into pieces by lack of love. Thanks for your vid and care.
❤
Are you saying that NPD is not caused by childhood trauma ?
I suspect that the channel owner might have NPD as well. 🤷
I am so very grateful for your videos. I was definitely on the "narcissists are just evil" bandwagon for a few years, after my personal experiences with two them. One was definitely malignant and I wonder if there would have been any getting clear there. However, the other person was just a very complicated, conflicted human being whose life and potential was torn apart by the condition, especially once it took the turn into substance abuse. Over the past couple of years, reflecting on my experiences, I kept thinking, 'No, there is more to this.' There is a humanity underneath it all that can sometimes be connected with for very brief periods of time, both subjectively and objectively. I have become very disappointed in the influencers' that seem to demand or imply that all narcissistic individuals just be written off as human beings. I now find that approach extremely harmful. I'm glad I found this channel.
So far I believe this is the best source of info I found after a month of learning about this topic online. A humanized scientific approach to NPD- by "scientific" I mean scientifically built with contrastive info, with synchronic and diachronic observations about other references. It's a pleasure to find a neat, professional, caring acount of NPD aimed at contributing to understanding this PD and healing- developing new coping mechanisms to improve people's life..
Thank you!
“uuh…it’s impossible that I’m wrong, so I still disagree because what do you even know about this!!” 🤦🏻♂️ Thank you doc!
@SLiCkJo - I don’t have an issue with people disagreeing with me, but it is sometimes interesting how sure people can be of the information they heard from a friend, read on Facebook, or got from another KZhead video.
@@healnpd if you're talking about pwNPD don't choose to be this way, you must really know, that absolutely nobody choose, not only pwNPD
So glad you cleared this up. I know a few people who suffer with this disorder & I always wondered how it wasn't a mental illness when it causes so many issues in their life. I have bipolar myself and see them struggle in similar ways and often MORE ways then I do with bipolar.
Narcissism is a voluntary choice. They choose when to exhibit certain symptoms based on their surroundings, unlike mental illnesses such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Not mentally healthy =/= mentally ill. This is why personality disorders are classified as conditions. They're maladaptive BEHAVIORS that people can choose when to exhibit. Their thought process is f*cked up, yes, but they optionally choose to approach the world like that.
@Hollyucinogen - Did you watch the video? Personality disorders are not classified as "conditions." They are classified as diagnosable mental disorders in the DSM and therefore fall under the umbrella of mental illness. Saying that personality disorders are, exclusively, maladaptive behaviors is not correct. They are based on patters of thinking, feeling, and behaving that deviate from cultural expectations and cause distress over time. The patterns of thought and feelings affect judgement, producing maladaptive behaviors. Even if the behaviors are choices, the thoughts and feelings behind them are part of the disorder as well. I made a video about this here: kzhead.info/sun/lbuxZJixg4uBjI0/bejne.htmlsi=Nuwl2RpNcmWPraZK
@@healnpd I did, in fact, watch the video. The issue is that you put incorrect information in the video to begin with, not that I didn't pay close enough attention to it. Look this up yourself, if you don't believe me. Personality disorders are not mental illnesses; they're mental conditions. They can control their own behavior, they just choose not to. Schizophrenia is a mental illness. Bipolar disorder is a mental illness. It's pretty convenient for narcissists to keep hurting other people over and over again on purpose, but then get to say, "IT'S A MENTAL ILLNESS! IT'S NOT MY FAULT!!!", don't you think? No, I'm not watching your other video. It's very, very obvious that you don't know what you're talking about. Literally the entire medical community disagrees with you. Mental illness =/= mental condition. If you don't believe me, then Google this yourself.
@Hollyucinogen - - “Literally the entire medical community disagrees with you.” The definition of mental illness I used in this video came directly from the American Psychiatric Association’s published material. That’s the primary professional organization of medical doctors specializing in the treatment of mental illness. I’m also a licensed psychologist and quite familiar with the how mental disorders are defined and diagnosed. I assure you, NPD is a mental disorder. You don’t have to believe me, of course. But please be aware that there is no valid, recognized designation of “mental condition” that differentiates personality disorders from other disorders like schizophrenia or bipolar disorders. All of those disorders are listed in the DSM, and are therefore ALL forms of mental illness…including NPD.
@@healnpd Wow, you're a psychologist? It's pathetic that I have to explain to you what the difference between a mental illness and a mental condition is, then. Narcissists can control their behavior; they just choose not to. It's not involuntary like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder are. Firstly, go back to school; and secondly, 5 seconds on Google will explain this to you. Goodbye. 👋
Excellent. I am 60. My father had vulnerable narcissism, my spouse had vulnerable narcissism as well and my brother also has it. All 3 have never had any treatment. I have over 100 years experience dealing with narcissism in close relationships. It is a mental illness and if they can become aware of it in a non threatening way, they can seek help. I hope in the future there is treatment for this mental illness. It has such tragic results in families.
Makes sense. Thank you for the informative video.
Glad it was helpful!
I love how adamant you sound ❤️
Can you please make a video on BPD and NPD comorbidity?
The thing is, both these disorders and personality disorders in general are on a spectrum. Meaning that you can just meet minimal criteria or maximum criteria to fit a diagnosis, and both of these disorders are with the same cluster of PD so at the end of the day having both doesn't necessarily make a huge difference. In general, people with BPD have more abandonment trauma, may show more visible signs of emotional destregulation, may show more empathy, and are likely to suffer preoccupied/disorganized attachment opposed avoidant syles of NPD but there are very similar in many ways. Women tend to get diagnosed more with BPD, and men tend to get diagnosed more with NPD. I would say this gender distinction probably has more to do with clinicians gender biases than actual biological differences, but who knows.
@@samanthas8340yup. Those guys get labeled as 'sex addicts' or just accepted as 'players'.
When a person upsets the life of others and cannot see the devastation and misery their conduct causes others associated with them - their mind ain't working properly
Your editing has gotten a lot better
Thanks! It’s a steep learning curve. 🤓
That is a terrific presentation, thank you. Knowing that it can be caused or contributed to by trauma, is it also a form of brain damage?
❤ thank you
Welcome!
Hi Dr Ettensohn, I just discovered your videos and I have found them incredibly insightful and helpful. I suspect that someone I love has NPD (although they have not been diagnosed), and I was wondering if you could possibly make a video in the future about how to support loved ones with NPD… there is so much stigmatization about this disorder which is why I love your channel because you frame in it such a compassionate light. All I want to do is help and support my loved one, but most resources online talk about how narcissists are abusive and why you should cut them out of your life as soon as possible. I don’t want to do this. I want to support my loved one through treatment, but I’m not really sure how to do this if they haven’t even been diagnosed. Some insight on this would be incredibly valuable. Thank you again for the work that you do- this channel is beautiful!
Good luck. Don’t forget yourself.
Then - if they have other things going on with them (comorbid); such as borderline personality disorder - it appears to create at least double doses of mental illnesses.
You have offered an excellent explanation of NPD. I've studied psychology enough to know you are correct. With NPD I'm aware that a person did not develop the paths in their brain that give them empathy during their developmental years around 3 to 4 years.
Hi Dr Ettensohn, great video as always! I love your content and I was wondering if you could do a video on how spoiled children can develop NPD? I've heard clinicians speak about this as being one of the ways that can create a narcissist but only got quite a surface level description i.e. The child is never told no, and gets their own way all the time, therefore; they grow up expecting to get only their own needs met as adults and lack empathy etc. Would be great to hear your take on it. Thanks in advance! M
When you get what you want, you usually adapt to get what you want by various means. It can be called narcissism definitely, but it is not the people who usually get diagnosed with NPD... What people usually react to are covert contracts, they change and differ, and some times we leave them to the side for a greater cause, or for how we feel. Master manipulators will always adjust to this, or even play it to their advantage. A child that is told no too much, will eventually turn dark and manipulate how they see others manipulate without any conscience to it because they were not shown any conscience. Jacob was favored, while Essau was despised, even though you could argue that Jacob was more sinister in his initial will, Essau still had the will to destroy his brother like Cain after what happened. The problem is as much spiritual as anything, both on an individual and a collective level...
So true
Do you think that you'll ever write a book or workbook for people with narcissistic personality styles/traits?
He has a book, unmasking narcissism
@TheHouseElf - I do have a book, but it’s for people in relationship with individuals who have pathological narcissism or NPD. I do have plans to write a follow-up for people who suffer from these issues.
@healnpd That's awesome to hear, excited to see it! 😊
Thank you for your compassionate approach. Do you have any recommendations for other channels or resources for friends and family of people who have this? I share a daughter with a man who I believe has NPD and I want some suggestions for how I can support her as she navigates having him as a father and also ways to help him be the best father he can be.
I'm grateful for your down to earth, humanizing approach. If you watch enough videos on KZhead you get a very black and white interpretation. I was with someone with these symptoms whom I can assure you, I would not have been with if he were just pure evil. I could, and still can see the vulnerability hiding behind the grandiose self image. The standard information found online however would lead me to believe that I would have to be the mentally ill one for falling for his idealized projections. anyway, Thank you, this information actually makes me feel much better and clears up a lot of self doubt I was experiencing.
From what I know of the narcissist, they've all had a terrible childhood.
There’s a theme where people think anyone with a personality disorder isn’t mentally ill and just bad people when it’s really a mental illness . That’s why the personality label in the dorser doesn’t do any help to disorders of mental ilneaa
who cares how would you call it? If you mean that people with npd or anything that is considered a disorder in a current society don't choose it, then I will surprise you: nobody choose to be anything brain-wise and behaviour-wise. Nobody has a free will.
it's pretty convinient to say: "I'm not bad, just mentally ill, I don't choose it" and proceeds to do same things, just without responsibility for your actions. Nobody choose. Surprise
Narcissism isn't a mental illness - it's a condition. Personality disorders like Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder are choices that a person can make. Mental illnesses like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia aren't choices.
@@Hollyucinogen- You should watch the video.
@@healnpd You should go back to medical school or do a basic high school level of research before publishing videos like this. Mental illnesses are things like bipolar disorder or schizophrenia - not voluntary. Personality disorders are voluntary. The symptoms of a mental illness don't change depending on their surroundings. A narcissists' do. Personality disorders are CONDITIONS, not illnesses. It's quite obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about. Not mentally healthy =/= mentally ill, my dude.
Hi Dr Ettenson, do you believe it would be unethical/immoral for someone diagnosed with NPD to have children?
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted in a profoundly sick society!" Krishnamurti
Dr. Ettensohn, I’d love to see a video on the topic of love for pwNPD. I have heard many times that pwNPD cannot love fully in the traditional sense, and that if can often feel empty. Could you address the treatment of that and if learning to love is possible? Also, would appreciate if you could include why pwNPD are prone to infidelity
They don’t know what love is. They will tell you that. Many causes for infidelity, but it gives them supply is a big one. Another is they’re looking for someone to ‘meet their needs’
And why they feel no remorse for their wrongdoing
I have a friend who’s daughter needs therapy and every time he takes her to the doctor in the hospital in town he tells him her issues are behavioral, not mental illness. I think that doctor needs to see your channel.
Why are those labeled Narcissistic & Borderline drawn to one another? I lve been told this and curious if this is true and if so why @healnpd
I'd find it really interesting to hear how much of an overlap there is between NPD and things like Conduct Disorder and Oppositional Defiant Disorder. My elder sister has said she's been diagnosed with ADHD, and I can certainly see how over the years, she's had so many of the traits of ADHD's ugly cousins, ODD and CD. She really also shows all of the classic signs of NPD and has used them to help her manipulate people in the world of MLMs. Is there an overlap between ODD / CD and NPD?
Then, if it's an illness,should we be forgiving? Would their illness help them get a reduced sentence if they were tried at court?
@TT-vv8xg - These questions are somewhat beyond the scope of this video and my expertise as a mental health professional. Whether or not you decide to forgive someone for some harm they have caused you is a matter of your personal ethics. Whether or not a person is given leniency during the sentencing phase of a criminal trial is a highly individual decision made by a judge based on the facts and circumstances of that specific case. Thanks for watching.
In the UK, I believe not. A large % of prison population have Antisocial PD, some NPD. I think you can empathise and understand why someone behaves a certain way, preferably from a distance. They can be very manipulative and damaging to other's mental health!
Do we hold them accountable for thier behavior or not?
Of course.
How can a family have more than 1 narcissist? For example a mother and son etc..
The mother can groom the child against other siblings and even her husband, using the child as a weapon to express her resentment and anger. Eventually, the child likely grows up as another narcissist repeating the cycle. NPD appears to be multi-generational
I don’t know the line between being self critical and accountability like where is the line? Don’t you have to call yourself out to be responsible for thing like harming others?
NPD is in the DSM, so yeah by definition it is a mental illness, a diagnosable mental disorder. Maybe it should be removed from the DSM since in reality it is more like a personality style. That's how it's been handled historically. In all seriousness, regular life sometimes leads to suicide too. Maybe social pressure and holding people accountable for their actions is a good treatment for NDP.
Id love to hear a really clear definition of what psychological 'order' is one of these days... It seems to be a very vague concept that hints at a person just being very moderate and cautious, not thinking too far out of the box, exploring profound ideologies and emotions or taking any risks when constructing their identitiy or perception of the world. I always wondered if the fear and compulsion associated with this moderate approach to life was itself a real 'disorder'.. i guess it all comes down to what a human being is 'supposed to be', which im sure nobody knows. But its fascinating how many people in this world will sit there and look you in the eyes pretending they do! If you ask me, the belief that you know what a person is supposed to be and how they are supposed to act is a very deep phychological affliction. Especially when these people are very selective in how they apply these judgements intellectually. For example being a christian, and basing your identity and world views around these bizarre concepts is absolutely diagnosable as a severe delusion which could easily be seen as harmful in countless examples, and even psychological child abuse on a colossal scale.. but these are not recognised as disorders in public 🤔 I think that these semi-scientific fields are unfortunately still serving their primary purpose in the world, which has always been to identify and pacify threats to acceptable ways of thinking and behaving in their cultures of origin. You'll know when psychiatrists start getting serious about exploring the human condition because they'll stop caring so much about being diagnosed themselves and start to display the full range of human emotion and an interest in risky ideas.
The idea that psychiatry/psychology is somehow against people being creative, artistic, eccentric, or interesting is and always has been a straw man argument based on fundamental misunderstandings of how mental illness is conceptualized by mental health professionals. Broadly, mental health is the ability to love, work, and play. This definition dates back to Freud, himself. When a person’s unable to focus on work, unable to engage in mutually fulfilling and meaningful interpersonal relationships, and unable to enjoy their life due to internal conflicts that dominate their psychology or behavioral issues that get in the way of them achieving their goals; and/or when a person’s thought, feelings, or behaviors differ markedly from their culture’s expectations - that’s when we start to call it a mental illness. And even then, there is considerable space for thinking about whether or not the person is actually engaged in maladaptive or dysfunctional behaviors or whether those behaviors are simply unusual or eccentric. You are free to be unusual, weird, or whatever…if you are happy and able to live your life in a way that’s meaningful to you, and you aren’t hurting anyone else, then no one in the mental health field cares. Psychology is not an organized attempt to control anyone’s behavior or enforce some kind of conformist fantasy. It never was. It actually has a history of being hugely subversive and disruptive in terms of how we collectively think about human experience and how we see ourselves. In his day, Freud’s models were some of the kinkiest shit you could find, flat out asserting that we are controlled by internal drives toward aggression and sex that are far outside the boundaries of conscious awareness. Psychoanalysis played a huge role in much of the artistic, philosophical, and literary developments of the 20th century. The systems of psychology that have been developed since the days of Freud are increasingly self-aware, not less so. They are also less positivistic. Third wave CBT approaches like ACT are grounded in the patient’s own value system, and concern themselves only with helping the person to achieve their own progress in the direction of those values. Modern analytic approaches focus on the co-construction of meaning, understanding that human psychology is fundamentally relational and that all shared meaning is intersubjective. The point I’m trying to make here is that modern psychology foregrounds the absence of moral absolutes or any notion of “normal.”
@healnpd There, you see we all present an idealised version of ourselves, our profession etc.. when we feel threatened.. just like 'the' narcissist. And we all make the same mistakes we accuse others of - 1st sentence, your own straw man. No big deal, no disorder. I really like the model of psychiatry / psychology you present here, but we both know this is what they would like to be far more than they are.. I mean, helping people who want to be helped with problems that are legitimately causing damage and distress to their own lives is of course admirable, but its like saying the US military is only a defensive and humanitarian force. Its a functional illusion. For one we'll first have to acknowledge that the study and practice of psychiatry / psychology extends deeply into corporate marketing, media, warfare and politics among other things, and in a very nefarious and manipulative way! And even focussing on mental health alone i think we all know the real sordid history, as well as the present story of colossaly medicated populations (especially in your country) and obscene ties to the pharmaceutical industry not to mention to the state. So my question remains, is this reality in fact a fantasy as you say, if we admit it.. or is it far more a fantasy to deny it? And i have to admit i feel far less pressure here because im not part of this profession responsible for the mental health of a society, but im saying if i was.. i would think that moderate ideas havent been working so well. I would be thinking maybe its time to adopt a more extremist even 'fundamentalist' approach and admit, first to myself, that the cause of most of these problems is likely a very sick or even ideologically psychotic society, fundamentally.. Rather than staying safe and protecting my own interests with moderate, safe thinking and patching up peoples 'disorders', maybe i would start thinking of the real purpose of my profession and how important to peoples health it is to be honest about whats really happening. Diagnosis and treatment of peoples psychological realities has to come from an honest understanding of our reality, and honestly theres absolutely nothing normal or moderate about the world around us these days. I never understood the 'your truth, their truth' concept in modern americanism honestly, it might seem like a tailored approach to treatment, but i think it just ends up being no truth. So id love to see the professionals in these fields start to take on a greater role in public when it comes to the root causes of mental illness, those taboos we all know and dare not speak. And instead of focussing all too much attention on treating the 'burn victims' - youre the professionals guys... help us put out the fire!!
@healnpd well said
It obviously IS!
MY COMMON SENSE told me that this is a MENTAL ILLNESS. THE PROBLEM with some is...well...i can't write what i'm thinking...so...uummm... folks need to STOP acting like they don't live in glass houses!!!!! we ALL have mental issues of some kind. I REFUSE to EVER believe these individuals can't change or don't even want to change!!! that's...NONSENSE!!!!! THANK YOU! i will happily place this video on my God Is My Refuge playlist that i hope these individuals find encouraging!! I AM ENCOURAGED FOR THEM!!!!!
I think it's hard for people to wrap their heads around, because at least in my experience the Narcissist seems so capable and confident and the love bombing felt sublime. It's much more subtle than someone walking down the street yelling at themself
Sublime indeed. For nearly 2 decades I treated my estranged husband as "normal" person with a disorder. Big mistake, in having normal expectations of him.
I think the confusion comes from the a belief that people with these disorders may or may not be lacking something gentically in the brain at birth as opposed to something caused due to their upbringing & trauma's that may have taken place to affect one's emotional & mental stability. The term illness itself includes all sorts of different ailments, whereas disorders are restricted to the functioning of the brain. For instance, someone with brain cancer has an illness and it's not considered a disorder so it's not really proper to conflate the 2 terms as one and the same. I think people, in general, are much more comfortable thinking they may have a disorder as opposed to an illness but I could be mistaken. It's the term 'illness' that should be replaced and not the other way around which seems to be the case for the most part now when discussing these disorders. I am interested in your response to whether or not you think people are actually born with NPD or BPD or is it something that develops, over time, after birth? My belief is the latter but I'm no psychiatrist or doctor. It is quite possible that those that suffer from these disorders could be genetically lacking something at birth that make them more susceptible to being affected more easily than others. Yes/No??? At least this should be considered & researched and not discounted as a possibility. Cheers
People have preconceptions about the word ‘illness’ - essentially arbitrary ideas that it needs to be biological, genetic, involve loss of reality testing, require medication, etc. Mental illness is very broadly defined by the APA. Mental disorders are diagnosable instances of mental illness. Essentially, all mental disorders are mental illness, but mental illness also includes conditions that aren’t yet officially diagnosable (for example, cPTSD or pathological narcissism).
@@healnpd So that's assuming they exist then? If not diagnosable, it's possible that they do not, but you didn't answer my question. So perhaps you could do that as well please? I'm not concerned with people's pre-conceptions or whether or not it is 'officially' diagnosable. I don't require an official opinion about a condition I'm sure a loved one or I suffer from as it doesn't make it any less true but it's interesting all the same. Thanks
Research suggests a 25% genetic component for NPD. I think there is always a combination of temperament, early care environment, and experiences with peers during childhood and adolescence. Someone can be born with a high genetic predisposition, but have a very supportive and nurturing early care environment and positive peer experiences. This would leave them without the complex trauma component and/or injured self. Conversely, someone without a high genetic predisposition can be raised in the right sort of abusive environment and experience bullying and rejection by peers, leaving them with a grandiose compensatory false self that fragments into states of depression, emptiness, and primitive aggression.
And are you in agreement with that research??? Of course there will always be a combination of those factors throughout our whole lives. I'm interested in your opinion and not the research. Thanks for responding.
Yes.
...a lotta those example comments feel like not knowing what a synonym or a subcategory is. Gettin' linguist issues tackled wasn't what I expected out of this channel!
ASPD+NPD diagnosed - scapegoat child of my own narcissistic parents and we are estranged. This is what I try to tell people myself and how I felt from years of frustration; it's more appropriate to treat someone NPD as mentally ill... to cut them from your life and distance yourself, that it's more like a higher functioning psychotic than a personality disorder. Commend your intellectual and fair approach to NPD and thank you for teaching understanding in contrast to the current witch hunt atmosphere.
at what point does the evil things they do to other people make them a evil person. i think there's a crossing line
This is a philosophical question and beyond the scope of this channel.
I was married to a narcissist. I divorced him in 2020 after 30 years of marriage. I don't really care if it is technically a mental illness...he was an awful person and caused me and our two sons immense pain and frustration by his selfish actions. He died a couple of months ago and we are very relieved he's gone from our lives. On Thanksgiving day I asked one of my son's what he was thankful for and he said, "Not sure if I should say this, but I'm glad my dad died". We are all glad he gone and we no longer have to deal with his lies, manipulation, gaslighting and his grandiose bu!!$hit. So that being said. I do find your videos interesting and informative.
I think it's twisted when people who claim to be victims of NPD are dancing and celebrating the death of the NPD. I have to say that to me, it seems like psycho's attract psycho's, if that makes sense. My other was an NPD and did some pretty bad stuff, but I never wished that she was suffering or dead. I only wished that she had got the help she needed. You and your sons seem to have something wrong with you. Not sure what it is, but lack of empathy is common among people who claim years of NPD abuse. The fact that you also stayed in an ABUSIVE household, shows me that something is very seriously wrong with all of you.
@dinahn6955 A lot of judgment from a snapshot of what I wrote. 30 years... I have a disabled son that required intense therapies for many years. Also, we co-owned a business together. But, that's enough...continue to judge a situation you have really NO clue about. Narcissists are beyond selfish and cunning.
@@funkmonsterIf by lack of empathy you mean the lack of ability to love oneself enough to set boundaries and self heal, I'd say yes. I was there for 25 yrs, and I too wished him dead when the sh*t hit the ceiling. Now that I understand more about mental illness, I wish I knew more decades ago so that I could love myself first and love him enough to seek help for both of us regardless of the lies, gaslighting, manipulation
Hey! I cant help but feel, that calling a mental illness an illness, because its defined as an illness, is kind of circular. Maybe the NPD is like diarrhea - only the Symptom of an underlying cause. That cause would be the illness. If we classify illnesses along their symptoms, we might end up like homöopathy, mixing up symptoms with causes and then trying to immunize against Symptoms instead of cureing the real inllness. Cluster-B disorders might have a common cause, like a complex PTSD from early childhood and might just be adaptations like walking with a limp after an ankle sprain. And as far as I know, CPTSD is not yet a Diagnosis in the dsm or icd
@PhilippMehr - I agree that we need a better model for classifying mental disorders - one that looks beyond symptoms toward underlying cause. That being said, this video presented two arguments. The first was ‘by definition’ because NPD is a diagnosable mental disorder. The second used the APA’s broader description of mental illness: Any condition that causes changes in thinking, feeling, or behavior; and distress and/or problems in work, social, or family settings. Whatever the underlying cause of the illness, I think this broad definition is solid. We don’t need a coherent taxonomy of specific mental disorders to say that mental illness is any condition that causes these mental and/or behavioral problems. NPD, whether caused by cPTSD, or even as as-yet undiscovered mechanism, meets that criteria.
@@healnpd thank you so much for your answer! I titaly agree with you here. And also if NPD would be a Symptom like Diarrhea is a symptom, loperamid still is a effective treatment. On the flipside, we dont have a reliable treatment for NPD. Maybe because we do not know, what the underlying cause might be? What do you think?
@@healnpd ps greetings from germany! :-)
Greetings and thanks for watching. 🙂
I think treatment is difficult for any personality disorder. Those organized in Cluster B present specific challenges because they are characterized by interpersonal antagonism and impulsivity. It becomes difficult to get sustained patient buy-in to the process, and there tends to be a high level of reactivity to the therapist’s presence and interventions. It is by no means anywhere close to 100% effective at this point. That being said, there is nothing inherent to NPD that makes in “untreatable,” as many would claim.
It's a disability?
Like all forms of mental illness, it involves disabilities. These aren’t disabilities in the legal sense, but rather areas of lessened ability/impairments that cause issues in the person’s life and relationships.
Little shaman channel
For me, an illness implies there is a path to healing NPD. I simply don't think that's possible. And I believe it's healthier for narc targets to know it that way. If the Dr. is set on mitigating narcissism in others, bless his soul.
@consciousmob - To my mind, diagnosis implies a path toward healing. It’s saying, “We’ve identified the cause of the illness,” whereas saying someone is ill simply recognizes they are ‘not well.’
@@healnpd It's just a tough spot for narc targets to think of their narc abusers as fixable. As true as it may be for therapists to feel they can help NPD'ers, it becomes a serious conundrum for victims to handle. They just can't, and should not, if that's the case. That said, i seriously appreciate your spotlight. NPD people need you for sure. But, I consider your post not for beginning victims with their wobbly awareness at least. It's just the nature of posting nuance about narcs and it's spectrums. There can be no consensus. My response to you is mostly for victims of narcs. You are brave and a blessing.
The DSM never seems to address this inconvenient little nugget: they can turn it on and off at will. They engage in abusive tactics in private, but intentionally switch to "likable" personas in public. Translation: they know perfectly well what they are doing and recognize that it is completely unacceptable social behavior. They can (an often do) act better, but will actively choose not to when being observed by others. Therefore I would argue that it is not a true mental illness for them in which they are helpless to control, but rather, for the ones in their lives who are irreparably damaged by narcissistic abuse.
@ceebee2447 - In the case of NPD, such disparities are mainly caused by 1) False self presentation and 2) the tendency to project in close relationships. The key to understanding pathological narcissism and NPD is that fragile self-esteem and core feelings of shame/worthlessness are masked by a false self. The false self is built to be shiny, impressive, and likable. But it is inherently unstable. Its structural integrity relies on constant external feedback in the form of admiration and idealization. So there is motivation to behave in an 'impressive' manner when around people who might provide an idealizing or admiring response. However convincing the false self might be - even to the pwNPD - it is not the whole story. The underlying instabilities in self-image and self-esteem exert a constant pressure on the personality. In emotionally stressful situations and relationships (like those with a romantic partner or family member), the false self presentation is more likely to show cracks, and the parts of the person that have been pushed underground are more likely to surface in the form of anger, depression, devaluing, hypercriticality, perfectionism, shame, or entitlement rage. We all have looser boundaries with loved ones. We tend to argue with a spouse in a way we would never dream of arguing with a boss or coworker. This is true for pwNPD as well. The looser boundaries facilitate projection of unwanted feelings about the self, and distortions in perception that are inherent in personality disorders like NPD lead to the narcissistic individual holding others accountable for the narcissist's own perceived shortcomings. So you see, the two-faced dynamic in NPD is actually *evidence* of mental illness, not an argument against it.
Depends. If the urge to hurt is compulsive, it's a mental illness. If it's pleasurable, it's a dopaminergic brain disorder.
@joltjolt5060 - Mental illnesses are not limited to compulsive behaviors.
i find it funny how people think they know more than a licensed clinical psychologist
There’s a lot of narcs on these forums, playing the victim of course
I think it's sad.
@@birdlover6842it is
There are unfortunately many incomplete psychologists and questioning the things they say is not necessarily a bad thing
Maybe we had the life threatening experience of being with these demons anyone who intentionally hurts people sick or not is an abusive person some hide it very well by that they know when to turn it off and on... So to some degree do you think they know what they're doing lying on people behind their back stealing, cheating the list goes on and on people get punished for the things they do he talking text book not real life they're so bad people call them demonic no for play for real...
They're forms of possession.
Tree.... possession as in the devil? That's a silly and archaic notion.
Mental illness yes
When I paid her a genuine, uncomplicated compliment and she perceived an insult and reacted as if I had punched her in her solar plexus - doubling up and groaning, that is an indication of mental illness 🤔
Haunted by evil spirits
But isn't it not an illness but a disorder?
Did you not watch the video?
@debileczek2 - The video explains that mental illness is the broad category that includes all diagnosable mental disorders. You should watch it! 🤗