Why Narcissists Gaslight
In this brief video, Dr. Ettensohn discusses the phenomenon of gaslighting as an unintentional byproduct of borderline personality organization. People with personality disorders often have difficulty understanding that others have emotional experiences different than their own. They also have deficits when it comes to accepting the reality of the consequences of their actions.
These deficits make it difficult for people with personality disorders to understand harm they have caused to others, or to respond adaptively to attempts to hold them accountable for their actions. They may incorrectly perceive the person they have wronged as attempting to dominate or humiliate them, or they may engage in splitting or denial and "erase" their memory of having done the harm in the first place. These deficits are due to developmental delay in the personality organization.
Essentially, people with personality disorders, including NPD, are utilizing less mature psychological defenses that result in the distortion of reality and the blurring of boundaries between self and other. These delays are often due to an early history of relational trauma.
#npd #narcissism #mentalhealth #mentalhealthawareness #psychology #healing #gaslighting #gaslight #gaslighter #psychologist
I will remove comments that are abusive to any individual (including myself) or population. This includes comments that are abusive toward pwNPD.
Dr,. Mark,, Do. You. rememer the greek story. of the marsicict (över Ovid) and his önly frend Ecco,,?) Well .its mythologi, For twenty years as a. lisened clinical social worker, for twenty years İ have worked. with this clients, You ise the words "yet, do. you think They will change,,? Whay are. you sugarcoding narsicist,,?
Hello, I have recently come to the realization that it is ME. I have been the problem and on my own, without trying to repair broken relationships, I am working to change and monitor my constant fear, hurt, anger and distrust of everyone. This is so correct! I DID NOT KNOW! Now with the common explanation of what NPD is.... how are people like me ever going to get better when everyone is going to view your legitimate self-reflection and improvement as a "con-game" When I feel/felt hurt, I LEGITEMATELY felt hurt. When I cry/cried, I was legitimately crying. When I was/am angry, I am legitimately angry. NONE of it is contrived orchestrated maliciousness and I can understand why SO FEW people would ever intentionally self-reflect and seek help. THANK YOU
All points of view should be shown. We have had enough censorship in this country. If someone finds another point of view offensive it does not mean it's abusive. Yeah! I believe in free speech.
@@bryanfinkell5184 Don't you see how something viewed as offensive, can hurt those who don't know any better? Just because you're ok with it, doesn't mean others are.
Thank you. Your channel is very educational and I really appreciate you taking the time to monitor it. Too many toxic comments by people who claim to be empaths.
I bought a bag of socks, left it on my piano and went out for a walk. When I came home, the socks were gone. I looked around the room and couldn’t find them. The narcissist that I lived with asked me what I was looking for? I said I couldn’t find my socks! He goes into his room and takes out my bag of socks and says “I just bought these, you want a pair?” I remain silent to see what he’ll do afterwards, and he tells everyone how generous he is and how grateful I should be to have him in my life because he treats me VERY WELL.
🤨
Oh, wow.
Ironically, people tend to only hold you accountable for hurt you caused them if they care about the relationship they have with you. It’s fascinating how being held accountable as a person with NPD can feel the exact opposite of being cared about.
Very insightful
He's talking about you 😅
its so unnerving to me how they can act so offended. me to my sister, "that was really hurtful, why did you say that?" sister: visibly aghast "what are you even talking about...!" etc and gets frantic, goes into attack mode, interrupts, denies, raises voices, and storms off. And then says my feelings are the problem. its like a short circuit, I guess.
This is just what normal people expect. However people with antisocial traits are not connected to society's teachings and common sense. Thus they are similar to "people who do not have knowledge of good and evil."
@@drebugsita Hm it's because people with antisocial traits actually believe all humans have bad intentions and basically they assume that whatever people do it's either an exchange or there's bad stuff coming, all people are threatening and it's basically a war against the world.
Not only do they gaslight you but when you confront them with the truth they accuse you of gaslighting! They know exactly what they are doing. They are weak and it's a conscious defence mechanism of avoiding shame of being found out
Yep, these individuals are dangerous. They are wrecking balls to unsuspecting healthy people. Unfortunately videos such as these can lead people down the wrong path with a narcissist.
Ya mine looked up the term “gaslight” picked out generic terms and accused me of course
@@marianatequiero28 same.
@@jenniferschiel5453 exactly! Sometimes we are all unaware of certain deeper aspects. They are lying and seem to even believe their own lies at times My question is, are they not aware when they start the dangerous smear campaign based on blatant lies? Of course they are aware.
I think a game changer is learning that we can understand and even have compassion for people but it does not automatically mean that we must remain subscribed to their behaviours if their behaviours are negatively impacting us. Most toxic people in general may not always be intentional behind their toxicity but if they are completely unwilling to work on themselves or seek help nobody can do it for them.
True! Explaining NPD is all good, but the ones who suffer are the ones that NPD personalities target.. NPD may not be a crime, however one person in my family leaving a trail of destruction in causing mental health issues that now run across generations...one wonders what's the point of trying to understand NPD by the 'non NPD' group of people!
@@earthrooster1969 Personally, I think trying to understand people with NPD will eventually lead to society providing them the psychological, mental health care that they need without stigma and shame and hopefully with financial support as well. But we don't even do that for schizophrenics who are clearly having hallucinations, much less Borderline and NPD issues, depression, etc. As long as society dismisses NPD as a personality disorder instead of mental illness/developmental mental health issues that NEED professional assistance in order to change, society will continue to live with the plague of narcissism we have in our world. We say we don't like their evil behavior, but we don't do anything to help them change it. Most evil, arguably all evil, comes from internal suffering and pain. Not all can be "saved", but our society doesn't even try to reduce it and yet it hurts almost all of us whether NPD or non-NPD. My ex doesn't have a sane person in his family to help him. And the stigma of getting mental health, especially for men like my ex and the environment he grew up in, is extreme. It shames them for having emotions and needing professional help (or needing any help at all, much less a therapist God forbid!)
My ex did this. I even told him, if you tell the truth, I'm not going to be mad. I just need you to recognise what you are doing and understand that it hurts me. He accepted it and 5 minutes later once he saw I was relieved he denied that he did that 😂 I wish they were mature enough to see it's not always about them
Seriously. I had to start getting agreements in writing just so he wouldn't be able to deny them.
That's such an amazing analysis despite being quite brief. It really makes so many things clear, thank you.
Julie Reason I totally agree with you and hope Dr Ettensohn will be able to do more videos in the future to get this vitally important information to more people, even though many won't accept it. I realise that he's an extremely busy person though, so I've been doing my bit by recommending his videos to people who've been diagnosed with NPD and have no hope, along with others. 😊
Please write more books. 🙏Your perspective is refreshing amongst a sea of voices that demonize and criticize NPD without looking at the emotional wounding that is behind it. Of course there is no excusing the behavior but understanding it is also very liberating and helpful.
I plan to! Unfortunately, it is difficult to find the time. Thanks for watching. 🙂
@@healnpd a benefit of communicating your theories online is that you can reach a lot of people easily and quickly.
Even if it's not intentional and nefarious, the fact that they don't recognize it is the problem. If someone isn't willing to look at their behavior and the impact it has on somebody else, then my suggestion is to run away.
One of the best descriptions of my experience with my ex husband… the denial of reality, consequences, magical thinking… 👍🏻
Thanks Doc, part of this is very relatable. When during childhood, you lived in constant fear as it seemed that no matter what you did, you'd get punished for the most banal actions, gaslighting can be a tool to get out of potential--and sometimes perhaps perceived?--trouble and avoid potential punishment. So in that regard, you could call it "intentional," although I think it's often an automatic, deeply ingrained reaction to a perceived threat.
Depends on the personality type. Not everyone with turn out a narc, given similar upbringing
Thank you so much for saving my relationship, for saving me from looking at people who suffer from npd in a weird twisted way.
Since NPD is not curable I have came to value understanding as this makes interactions so much easier. We all have someone who acts this way who many of us have love for . Instead of running away I have chosen to embrace them with understanding of what they are actually going through as opposed to the way I felt in the past is completely day and night and I am finally at a point where I can manage the friendship without being upset and I see them applying things I've taken time to explain in a detailed non threatening and always accepting them regardless of them showing capacity to do it. I feel like the lower level NPD have hope to get better once they start to see unconditional love and start to see themselves as someone who doesn't have to fit in some box that they think we want them in to be accepted. I just don't know how to condemn anyone especially knowing that they likely were made to feel like they only deserved love for being who others wanted thus making their true self wrong and bad. I feel like they have already condemn themselves and loving them with strict and safe boundaries is the most I can give them to possibly inspire them to see what they can learn. I still can't help but believe they can heal However unlikely anything is possible if you want it enough. Stop enabling them and love them safely and watch the miracles unfold.
Best of luck w/ your friend. This would be possible w/ a friendship. Extremely difficult in a love relationship where you live and can't get away from them for sanity breaks.
Thank YOU 🙏
@@saintejeannedarc9460and it's unbelievably difficult or not impossible in a mother - daughter relationship where the mother caused great harm . Some things are just unforgivable
Well said, except NPD actually IS curable, with therapeutic techniques that do precisely this, offer unconditional acceptance and positive regard without complying with their world view.
@@nemishasharma5737 how many people with NPD were successfully cured and what is the percentage of success of the therapy in general?
This is my 5th video I have watched on your channel today. Thank you for these compassionate views on one of the most stigmatized mental health conditions that there are. As for myself, I have not been diagnosed-but a lot of things are coming to a head where I may have npd after all along with ADHD (diagnosed) and possibly autism spectrum condition (not yet diagnosed). Since I have been looking up a lot on this subject and reflecting on it with my life experiences, I just hope more people would know about this. The stigmatization is insane. I genuinely struggle to understand what my best choices in life are. I have regular self-doubts and relational struggles. Not because I am trying to be difficult. Life is just getting more and more complex for people like me.
I really appreciate your sharing. It has given me a lot of insight into my parents behavior. It took me years to turn my thinking around. This type of behavior is usually passed down through generations. There is so much help out there now. Keep going, you got this!! Anyway, thanks again.
Here we go again, someone with NPD claiming to be a victim
You are definitely a narcissist because it’s clearly more important to you to be a victim here and complain about how you’ve been stigmatized than own your behavior and it’s destructive impact on others. You’re not the victim.
@@happycamper3561 Be. Nice.!
the stigma? They destroy people's lives. They almost never seek help or even accept they have a problem.. There's no Stigma here. That's a millennial internet term adapted by egomaniacs who take advantage of people then play the victim card. People like you? Who exactly are you that makes you assume your life is more complex? Than others? Maybe when you've been abused for decades or seen people kill themselves after the poor treatment they receive from a person with NPD who lacks empathy, then you'll understand the meaning of insanity Right now you have been diagnosed with ADHD like an extremely large amount of people are nowadays and have watched five youtube videos. Go see a thereapist and grow a spine. Don't assume in real life anyone will be around to say "Be nice" or I will delete comments when etc when a sociopath is beating you to death or the police are arresting you and don't care about your perceived stigma they only care about what you DID. This channel is from the perspective of a sheltered man who has read books and encountered a very small population of self-aware narcs. I doubt he's ever had a gun stuck in his mouth. Or his wife or husband carry on three different affairs. This channel is a fluffy little take on some apparent population of self ware narcissists who are quietly trying to change but are having such a hard time because of the stigma. Utter nonsense. They know what they are doing just as much as Jeffrey Dahmer knows he is eating brains. You sound like a child who had never stepped outside your bedroom.
Helpful from a developmental deficit point of view if someone has traits of Narcissism. I could never understand when I tried to explain things to my Dad how upset I was about something and he would blatantly say No your wrong that never happened when it did.
I have known a couple of people that I think are narcissists who I am convinced remember some things incorrectly. They really believe their own accounts of events, even when those accounts don't make sense. So maybe at least sometimes what looks like deception or gaslighting really is not intentional.
@dave smith yes I had one who would do that, but it was standard projection, I think. This same person would also gaslight me, such as tell me a lie and then when the truth would come to light he would just stare at me like, "What are you so upset about?" and not acknowledge the warranted outrage at all. That kind of thing does make one crazy.
I think you should explain these things that people in the narcissistic abuse community see in narcissists in a scientific way. Keep going! :)
I just got your book. I resonate with vulnerable narcissism but still not sure if have a false self? I have depression, anxiety, fear of rejection, emotional dysregulation and splitting. Narcissism is a lot more complex than I thought. Thank you for all the information and making the journey easier to navigate.
Thank you, very helpful and a welcome antidote to the ocean of misinformation out there.
Glad it was helpful!
Superb video - gets to the heart of the matter by explaining that the narcissist gaslights subconsciously and not deliberately and that he/she is almost "wired" to do this (i.e. deeply ingrained defence mechanism). The GL in our family is exactly like this and often "rewrites" the reality of what he/she did to explain away certain things. I have never come across such a concise yet precisely accurate explanation of an narcissistic gas lighter's psychological flaws in over 25 years of seeking an understanding of why she behaved the way she does.
Gaslighting is always intentional. If it's not intentional then it's not gaslighting; it's something else. As for 'the subconscious', we all do things from a mix of the subconscious and conscious all the time. The subconscious being involved in a decision does not mean it's not intentional. If a person cares enough (about the situation or the other person) then they can override the subconscious desire or whatever it is that 'takes over' and makes them go to the extreme of lying about reality and wanting to 'bring other people in' to that alternate reality - without consulting the other person or caring about they think.
Idiot eye for eye. Steal from me well lawyer up partner karma is gunna sucker punch you in the face Man just give up already😅
Wow, I have seen all of this happen within myself at various times of my life but at pretty low and controllable levels and I've been able, I *think*, to mature or at the very least function more healthily as I get older. I have been very close to several people throughout my life who fit this exact description at extreme levels though. I feel a lot compassion for this experience. It has caused such hardship in my personal life and inner turmoil, as the one experiencing shades of this and as the one seeing others experience it to extremes and it's just the most frustrating thing. The lack of control over these processes...the void of insight into them ...It's so unrealy painful to see and realize. NPD breaks my heart! I'm glad that it is slowly going to be understood properly finally 🙏 I hope.
It is a very complicated illness. When I said you where not honest, he said I was honest. So I understand what you saying now. Thanks Doctor.❤
I so appreciate the work you are doing, I'm an empath, I've been on the recieving end of npd, many times, and fully take responsibility for the part i played. I have since healed. I don't believe the npd's can't heal, I believe some can, they have been through abuse as children, be it, over or under parenting, so it's not their fault. As I have healed, I can feel compassion for how they are. I do feel our traits determine how the abuse affects us. thank you for helping people understand. 😀🧡
If I understand correctly this video is saying that people who believe they have been gaslit by a narcissist probably haven't. I say that because gaslighting is a term that implies, to me anyway, consciousness of what the person is attempting to do. At least in the film Gaslight that's what was going on. This is parallel to the situation where features of autism are mistaken for features seen in non-autistic people. Often, benign autistic features are mistaken for malignant neurotypical features.
I think my dad has some form of autism but it was never diagnosed. He displays many of the symptoms of a malignant narcissistic personality though (at best). He has no idea ever of the harms he causes others. It’s quite clear. He would always think that it is because they provoked him even if that just happened because he was jealous or envious of them or because he disliked their display of weakness because he was never allowed to be weak when he was young. It’s quite clear though that he is trapped in the emotional state of someone that’s roughly three years old along with the fact that he can’t recognize emotions in others, ever. I am certain he is clueless as to the hurt he’s caused others in his life. Absolutely clueless on it. He is not intentionally trying to hurt people but it’s a consequence of whatever makes him up.
I don't think he was saying that gaslighting in NPD has to be unconscious or that people who think they've been gaslight likely haven't been. He seemed to be saying that gaslighting isn't always intentional w/ NPD. I can be intentional, but it's a defense mechanism they might not be aware of. Like a reflex for coping, rather than a cold and calculating thing.
I've been watching your videos and I've never felt so understood and called out at the same time haha. Anyways, thank you for posting these videos, they dive into these issues in such a clear and deep way; they're very free of the stigma, judgement, and vindictiveness you see a lot of people showing when they discuss this topic.
Thanks for watching. I’m glad to know you feel seen and also challenged.
That seems to be the sweet spot for treating NPD, if the person feels called out in an understanding way. Then they can feel comfortable and understood enough to want to cope in healthier ways and to want to really open up to change.
Right at the discard and before I went NC -the narc messaged me and said ‘I never meant to make you feel a certain kind of way or harm you in any way😳😳😳😳
I feel like that's a typical claim they make. I've heard so many variations of it. Mostly recently, "I didn't mean to offend you" which is very different from actually admitting that in reality she said something objectively cutting and cruel to me.
One texted me "I didn't mean for you to be hurt by (my behavior)." I thought the phrasing was odd. ...they couldn't even say "I didn't mean to hurt you.." as if even taking that much ownership was too much. Instead, I was " hurt by" implies it is really my sensitivity that's at fault. Also, I had requested many many times, over years, that they try to refrain from (the behavior) because it was hurtful to me. Yet it wasn't until I "took a break" from the friendship, explaining in writing that I was doing so and why, that they even acknowledged (the behavior) at all, despite all the times I had said it was a real problem. A sanity undermining, trauma causing problem. Six months later a voice message making light of the whole situation. Literally attempting to make a witticism, a stupid snarky, yet somewhat covert (dogwhistle type) joke about it, while at the same time apparently wanting to resume the relationship. No thanks.
I am grateful to have stumbled into your videos of NPD. My SO needs a new therapist like you ASAP. He detests therapy and doesn't really participate because they are not doing it right. I can't wait to show him this later!
They also cannot account for what they do wrong unless it’s a minor infraction. Saying I’m sorry and never being remorseful speaks to their permanent grandiosity.
Grandiosity in pathological narcissism and NPD is typically not permanent. Narcissism is a disorder in which self-esteem tends to be unstable and fluctuate between grandiosity and fragility/low self-esteem.
Thank you for your work👍
Excellent explanation thank you so much for this
Totally clears things up. So grateful I came across your KZhead channel.😊
Glad it was helpful!
Very interesting and logical what you explain. I was very cruelly discarted by a vulnerable narcissist and this almost destroyed me completely. This happened 1 year ago (jan 5,2023 - the discard). During this entire year I have read about NPD and watched hundreds of videos explaining NPD, gaslighting, word salad, silent tx, cognitive dissonance etc; not fully getting the explanation of why it happened. I have found this explanation in your videos and it has helped me a lot to understand the dinamics of what happened and why it happened. Thank you.
Great video, thank you so much for the in-depth explanation. Any chance you could improve the volume on your recordings? I have my volume turned completely up and can barely hear you.
yes, louder volume would help
This explains so much! Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
I feel quite at home with your understanding of NPD. It is indeed a mental illness, but one that produces a lot of byproducts that are harmful to the people in the patient’s environment. The popular merger of psychology and Lutheran demonology in so many abuse victims’ minds sure doesn’t help them. It often makes their own trauma worse. Both my parents were on the Cluster B spectrum. So was my first partner, and as a consequence, is my son. I believe I must have avoided contracting the same illness by being a crybaby. I was so totally prone to breaking out in tears, that I must have somehow forgot about getting angry, and therefore failed to build up any solid, lasting grudges. I must have ‘hosed down’ a lot of hurt immediately after it hit, thanks to my hair trigger emotional sprinkler system.
I think anger is a complex emotion, or it doesn't always 'show itself'. There's a saying from somewhere that depression is anger directed inward. I think anxiety as well, is a type of anger, but it was stunted in development. There is a healthy form of anger/energy that doesn't hurt anyone but is simply a pure expression of discontent/disagreement with something that is wrong or to motivate change. I relate to some of what you shared regarding parents and former partners. I also do not 'get angry', but I feel hurt, yet I don't hold grudges as such. I want to move on, but when I can't I just feel 'hurt' (but not wishing the other person harm because that won't help). Anger was not allowed growing up in our house (except of course for the perpetrators).
I commented on your malignant narcissist video about my identical twin and was guided by some in your community to think of her as a malignant narcissist, which seems to mesh much better with how she behaves. But I'm still curious about the gaslighting aspect. My sister doesn't simply perceive an incident differently; she REVERSES the ROLES. When she began dating her wife, I received from her partner a letter detailing how I had physically abused my sister. In fact, my sister is a bully and our history involved her beating ME. YES, I fought back briefly but it always ended in my submission (she outweighed me by at least 100 pounds; that, and I was always so STUNNED by the sudden violence which was usually about me verbally resisting her ordering me around or gaslighting me). When I've tried to broach the subject of her lies with her, she simply repeats 'No physical fight ever started but by your own hand', which is of course untrue. The only time I ever hit her was in self-defence, such as trying to get her OFF me or trying to keep her from taking the phone from me as I tried to call the police. She also beat our roommate at the time and claimed to her partner that he had beat her, so it's not just me. So IS my twin a malignant narcissist based on this? Is it even POSSIBLE that she is truly perceiving things in this twisted way? Thanks in advance for answers from Dr Ettensohn or the community.
This is so helpful. Way to many arguments with my ex because I couldn’t get her to even validate what I and others experienced as fact. I kept telling her I don’t need you to feel bad or even apologize. Just please admit it happened. Now I know why she pushed back so hard and made the focus me hurting her for wanting some validation. Wish I knew this then, I would have walked away from those arguments
Thank you, I like the compassionate format of this info. Have you got any narcissistic patients to health? This way of perceiving is heartbreaking and nearly impossible to work with as a partner - e.g., reasonable objections cause unreasonable reactions, and partner's triggered reactions causes total meltdowns. Partner has to be an actual saint to create any semblance of stability.
It is very dangerous to believe that a person with actual NPD can have a stable relationship. This notion caused me a boatload of pain for 9 years trying to make my relationship with a narcissist work. The non NPD partner has to actually accept being insulted (looks, intelligence, triangulated with exes or the waitress, etc...), lied to, walk on eggshells, confused, feel unsafe and generally unloved on the regular. When you finally come to your senses and end the relationship and abuse, you are then faced with many months or years of a very painful emotional and psychological recovery. I listened to "positive" videos such as these when I was in the narcissistic relationship with naïve hope that the relationship could get better. I twisted myself into a pretzel, became a robot and basically lost who I am to please this individual. Yet, the abuse cycle continued to the end getting worse and more traumatizing with each round. I feel these videos are dangerous information for people being abused in these types of relationships. Be careful.
@@jenniferschiel5453 I totally understand where you are coming from. No amount of understanding or contortion makes things better, but rather worse. I get it. Believe me, I've been there. But I don't think he's advocating closeness. I think he is making room for NPD people and for the rest of us to understand. Understanding doesn't mean, go right in and be close to them and allow them to walk all over you. No. You still have to make your own decisions that work for you. And if you really want to know who the culprit is, look at their mothers!!! Mothers create this impossible heartache for everyone. Lack of natural affection right from birth. It's mind-blowing. Too many women/girls have babies when they are not ready, mature, interested or capable of really loving affectionately their offspring. God help us.
@@matilda4406 I agree completely that the mother creates this dysfunction. Thanks.
Anna Fedorova I've heard Dr Ettensohn and others mention that they have assisted narcissistic individuals to heal, or integrate, as he prefers to call it, which validated my thoughts upon hearing some counsellors state that it's not possible! It doesn't mean that "partners" etc can make it happen though, because it takes willingness and a lot of work to change ingrained behaviour. I believe that people don't have any right to force others to change anyway, hence why it's best to leave, IF possible. I've done it many times in my life and not just with exes. I want to add that he said that he's got a waiting list a mile long as well, which is promising, but the world needs a lot more people who understand that talking therapy isn't enough to keep up with the rising number coming forward. ❤
@@jenniferschiel5453 I've listened to most of Dr Ettensohn's extremely insightful, not to mention compassionate, videos and he certainly doesn't encourage people to stay with narcissistic individuals who are harming others with no sign of wanting to work on themselves. It seems to me that he's simply giving reasons and has empathy for the origins of the behaviour, instead of outright condemnation, like many others are doing, even though the latter is totally understandable! I've mentioned on other videos that it seems cruel to blame small children, who are being physically and/or sexually abused, or enduring other trauma, to do whatever is necessary in order to survive the nightmare. I'm also aware that many children who experienced immense trauma, including me, didn't turn out to be highly narcissistic, yet there are reasons for this as well and being at the other end of the spectrum isn't healthy either. ❤
This explains my insufferable landlord. I have him on audio engaging in these behaviours.
Another good video ❤ please make more, more often.
I'll try!
Thank you for this important information.
Wow! So helpful. Sorry for anyone who is hear because you experienced this.
I would for surely agree that they don’t know they’re gaslighting… in fact they highly most likely deny it
they think for betraying someone... they can just make a funny joke or give them a gift. And angry at an attempt to hold them accountable... Wow! it is shocking. I have seen it many times
Gaslighting caused me to have a nervous breakdown. I was brainwashed into thinking I was crazy. 10 years with a malignant narcissist destroyed my life & health in so many ways. Towards the end of our marriage he told me he would make my life a living hell so I could kill myself. Unbelievable. What I don’t understand is that he didn’t have a traumatic childhood. Instead he was given everything & never told NO. His Mother is just like him.
I’m sorry you had to go through that.
@@healnpd - Thank you! The worst part was he did the same thing to our son who was 10 at the time. The state took away his parental rights after the forensic psychologist evaluation came in.
Regarding childhood trauma, I think it is difficult to know what really happened in someone’s past. Personality is the result of a combination between genetic temperament and environmental factors that are varied and complex. Also, trauma doesn’t always look like “trauma.” That is to say, it isn’t always what we imagine it to be. You say that your ex is a malignant narcissist who treats people sadistically, and that his mother is “just like him.” How good could his childhood have been with a mother like that?
They love to make people want to off themselves
@@healnpd - I see what you’re saying & it make sense. It was trauma but not the same as mine. I get that. Thank you for all that you do!
Loved this..makes so much sense But yes the sound is very poor
I really wish I had discovered your channel before getting caught up in the vast sea of inflammatory content on this subject. Thank you.
Thank you for your explanation!!! That behaviour of my husband Drives me crazy...He Just cant understand emotions of Others people...
divorce him
Iam living with this kind of treatment from past so many years. When u explained I was thinking of different incidents in my life... Devaluation of a person every day... There is not a single day in my 21 years married life that did not want to end the marriage.
I feel like I have found the voice of reason here.
Carole Dolman I'm feeling like that as well and you've put it into the words I've been attempting to find to express my gratitude to Dr Ettensohn for the videos, not to mention all the work he's doing! I'll think of something else when I'm not as tired, which is often the case with me. I realise that he's an extremely busy person though, so might not get to see it anyway. 😊
This nailed it. I know I do this all the time and still do. My wife continues to try and hold me accountable and voice her hurt and grievances but I get angry and deny and deflect. I feel like I'm trying to listen understand but I continue to wish she'd just let it go and forgive me.
Relatable, but also very glad I try to hold myself accountable regardless of how much distress it causes me to do so. Been learning how to apologize and hold myself accountable in a healthy way, despite the intense and debilitating shame. I don't want to hurt others. My only condition is that people give me a few days or hours to process the issue so that I can figure out what to do, how to go about it, fix and repair my self-image, and hold myself accountable. I think giving pwNPD with the space to let themselves understand they did something wrong and let them have the time to process it first, before they own up to their mistakes and work on their behaviour. Btw, not every pwNPD does this sort of behaviour. I tend to not as it makes me feel even more ashamed or makes my symptoms worse, so I try to just avoid the situation first or share that I need time to process before I do the right thing. Some of us pwNPD find superiority in being morally righteous/correct, so for me I feel intense shame if I don't do the right thing. So yeah. Just be patient with us, show your lack of judgment, set up strong boundaries, be assertive, don't be rude, be compassionate, etc. Things will most likely work out.
Thank you, your videos help me to understand my mother. Other chanels were just convincing me that she is a monster from hell and I should cut any contact with her. What is happening nowadays with NPD is a modern day witch hunt.
Also they did this to their own children which had devastating effects on their lives. I didn't see them show any affection to their own kids they just treated the rest worse.
💯 percent true
uumm, doc, i started laughing at your huge microphone BECAUSE I STILL CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!! lmao!!! i got a cheap laptop, cheap speakers ... it's not you! lol!!!!! thank you, again, for this encouraging, very educational content!
The inability for a narcissist to repent for their sins is the one thing that blocks them from healing.
I agree.
Can you recommend me a text about boundaries in people with a PD? It's difficult to understand how someone doesn't know or confuse his emotions with the emotions of others. I guess, this difficulty for me is as difficult to them understanding healthy people (people without a PD). Thanks.
its a learned behavior. My parents have NO boundaries, but neither did my grandparents. Very self-UNaware. You can't change their behavior b/c they don't see it as being an issue. Hope this helps.
Another cause of gaslighting that I have observed is "Euphoric Thinking" which results from having addictions, they believe that everything they do is right and good, and everything bad is someone else's fault.
They understand, like you said IT IS INTENDED...Psyche, Soul, the Doer, The Spirit, the Nature, is all of that...I just learned that wishing, wanting, along with all desires, are bred of FEAR OF ONLY KNOWING HELL..
Nice content. Is it possible to increase your mic levels when recording so we can increase volume levels that don't cap out at a low level?
my right ear loved this video
Yes, the audio is one-channel only. 😣
@@healnpd it's alright, the video itself was good :)
They go way beyond words as well, when you have mastered identifying and ignoring their tactics, they then go on to actions. The sad thing about them is they never leave which to me is weird because if they want you to change for them that means they don't accept who you are, but they won't leave smh
When I point out that they're gaslighting me ..they back down a bit and sometimes even shut up. Well maybe this person doesn't know what it means. Telling them seems to lessen and slow it and de-escalate..ugh.
If you are dealing with someone who has no concept of accountability, then you have to either go no contact or extreme distance. The other option is to 'take on the challenge' of dealing with them, but if, say, you're the child of that person, then they didn't parent you enough to be strong enough to deal with it. I have reached my limit anyway, after a decade of no contact, then 5 years of 'reconciling' and trying to get along with this person. It is not worth sacrificing my mental health to be dragged down to their level of 'delayed development' or whatever it is. It's time to take my self back and move on.
Impetious nature is the sad issue often. There was a deal made on a day of anger because it made them feel empowered to teach a lesson, which is a favorite activity. Then soon realized what the person really wanted and it had nothing to do with business it was about control. Maybe the person was manipulated by drugs that were provided or some other darker form of persuasion but the deal they made controlled their future life and that was not considered as usual. It is so important to pray to God and never act impetiously and plan your future life when making important decisions.
How do you start the conversation with a person suffering with NPD that you know have NPD. When you think that they are now aware that they have it? I hope u see this I really need some well rounded educated fact based answers! Thanks, KD
While this is all undeniably true - that the personality disordered narcissist is completely unable to control their ingrained desire to deny the truth, by gaslighting…it does not matter whether the gaslighting is intentional or uncontrollable - it can still have the same dire effect on the person/people they are gaslighting. The only way the person being gaslit can work on a fair playing field with a personality disordered gaslighter, is if they are aware that the person has a personality disorder - in the first place. Then, they would know to take anything the personality disordered person tells them - with a grain of salt. Otherwise, depending on the situation…the damage done to an unaware person being gaslit…can be catastrophic. Especially if it goes on for an extended amount of time. So, although it may be innocently delivered, deception is always destructive, because it is always deceptive. Forewarned is forearmed.
I think the only way a person cannot fall for gaslighting is by having good judgement. That involves self trust, grounded sense of self, good self esteem. By remaining vigilant and responsible for our own mental health. When we don't do that, we're subject to toxic dynamics. And then goes the he/ she made me feel, he/ she made me do, he/ she made me believe tirades. When we decide that it's perfectly fine to blame someone else for our own disregulated sense of being.
That jives with my experience. Thanks for such a well explained video. Please do one on why narcissists interrogate you when you haven't done anything, and won't let their false accusations go, after they've decided that you're theirs to hound or abuse.
Or maybe we can listen to video when the person with NPD loses control of the target and tries to gain back control by threatening to falsely accuse them of criminal activity to local law enforcement. Yeah, good times. False hope is very dangerous when dealing with NPD. You're asking for trouble if you believe that a person with NPD will ever be trustworthy.
6:43 a developmental delay means they will eventually catch up?
Please can you activate the substitles? Sorry for my english
@healnpd When you said they have "difficulty accepting that consequences can't sort of be magically undone", I laughed out loud. I never realized that I actually believe that. Its so illogical, but it still exists.
I want to know how they tend to hold grudges when others offend them but can’t relate that someone else might be hurt for longer periods of time until theres an apology etc
Can you do a video explaining the psychology behind the idealization-devaluation-discard cycle of narcissism? After finishing your book, I picked up a copy of Dr. Stephen Johnson’s “Humanizing the Narcissistic Style,” which you mentioned there and here in your videos. I am working through it now (and loving it), but I do not have a background in psychology and am struggling to understand the merger idealization he talks about in Chapter 2, “The Used Child.” In this chapter, he says the individual will seek out and then misperceive the other as the perfect object with whom to merge… that he “needs someone to look up to, believe in, and emulate,” and that in each of these idealizations, the individual is “looking for the self in the other” (52). And then he says that, unless this idealization is neutralized, the narcissist will “endlessly circle from idealization to disillusionment, like the proverbial dog chasing its tail” (53). I guess my question is: how does this contrast to a “normal” upbringing? Or, why do narcissists search for the ideal? As children we all want to feel lovable and accepted as we are, but we quickly learn we and others are not perfect. What happens with a narcissist that makes them seek perfection? Is it simply tied to their defensive grandiosity, or is it something else?
Along those same lines, why is nothing you do for a narcissist ever enough?
@@JC-bu8yi yeah! Are they capable of appreciation? Maybe too overwhelmed to think in "thankful" terms. I asked myself this so many times: why can't I make them happy, there are so many good things, and it seems to make no difference to them.
Maybe these are manifestations of the compulsion to repeat--trying to get something to work out right which didn't early in their lives.
@@JC-bu8yi Their mothers were not warm and happy and kind to them so they never learned that from day one and during the first year or two. Good mothers develop healthy psychological people. You know what I mean? Mothers who do not dearly love and welcome their child create narcissists. Sad. Incredibly sad.
I can only speak from experience since I likewise have not much education around psychology. I believe my identical twin may have NPD. In our case, our mother was too high to notice her dealer was abusing her children. Our father was absent much of the time and alcoholic, so he was out of touch as well. Our mother's death when we were 8 brought us to live with our paternal grandparents. Grandfather began his abuse immediately and grandmother's response to my pleas for help was 'Don't be silly; don't be ridiculous; you're crazy!' and so on it went for 5 more years. Sister and I shared the same experiences, yet she readily tells strangers that she 'saved her sister from the abuse'. She couldn't face the truth of our shared abuse so she lives in a fantasy world where she is a hero... and I am an ungrateful bully who brutalised her growing up. In reality, she beat ME and bullied ME. To your question: in our case, the people we idealised were on television! My sister is to this day driven to APPEAR perfect to anyone but myself. She absolutely hates me just because I'm not HER. Being a twin must complicate this matter. But I believe deep down she knows her life is a LIE, that she is a FRAUD -- and I am so sad that this is her lot. I asked myself every day before I cut her from my life: WHY can't she just be HUMAN like everyone else??? Now I just accept that she CAN'T. I hope that helps?
Can you explain how NPDs experience shame and how it’s different to normal shame . And if they tend to feel painful shame then why do they do shameful things that they know are wrong . If I find something shameful I don’t do it .
Please @HealNPD can you elaborate on what do you mean by: "they haven't learned to let go of magical thinking" and "accept the immutability of reality" YET? I have difficulty comprehending this perspective on it. I mean babies learn already the immutability of reality and of consequences: you walk beyond the edge of the sofa, you fall and it hurts; you put your hand in fire, it burns and hurts; your baby brother cries cause they fell and are in pain, you are sad and/or cry with them. It does not seem to me like something that one learns (we all come with mirroring neurons) but rather something that had to be unlearned or hampered, isn't it? And if, let's say, this is something one learns, saying that people in their middle or old age even have not learned it "yet" is very confusing. So I'd be very grateful for additional info on your views on this. Thank you!
@aycha_1449 - PwNPD typically understand things like “fire will burn your hand,” etc. But even that basic sense of reality can become distorted in highly grandiose states (where someone might believe themselves impervious to pain). Such states would properly be described as psychotic because they involve loss of reality testing. Generally speaking, people with personality disorders exhibit something called borderline personality organization (which is different than BPD). This is a range of functioning characterized by reliance on primary defenses that distort reality, blur the lines between self and other, and disrupt the continuity of internal experience. In borderline states, reality can become distorted to fit what the person wants or needs to perceive. For example, someone in a borderline state may project their feelings of envy and rage onto someone else (blurring the boundary between self and others). They may then react with indignant outrage at the fantasized attacks coming from the person onto whom they projected. They may feel 100% justified in calling that person names, mistreating them, etc., because they are simply defending themselves (this is a distortion of reality). Later, after things have calmed down, the pwNPD may experience an internal unconscious shift to another part of their self. This is called splitting (disruption in the continuity of internal experience) and it is characteristic of personality disorders. From the alternate state of mind, they perceive things differently. They may not recall the abuse to which they subjected the other person. If they do recall it, they may see it through a distorted lens that provides justification or rationalizations for why what they said and did was appropriate and necessary. OR, they may downplay the extent of the harm done due to their need to preserve their own positive self image. These psychological maneuvers involve distorting reality. Actions can be done and undone. Abuse can be given and then magically erased after-the-fact. Blame can be shifted. All of these things tend to occur unconsciously and are aspects of borderline personality organization. They can be found in multiple personality disorders, not just NPD. That being said, Cluster B disorders like NPD, BPD, and HPD are known for heavy utilization of primary defenses that externalize bad feelings. From some theoretical perspectives, people who fall into these categories are developmentally delayed due to complex trauma. They were not able to “graduate” into a more stable relationship with reality. They are stuck relying on costly, reality disorting defenses that are commonly encountered in early childhood. Hope this helps!
I was wondering if it should be diagnozed as personnality trouble or reality trouble . Because they might look different within all of their behaviors but if the entire reality shifted they adapt the new reality with totally different behaviors .
They do not have the intenct to understand nuances or turns of phrase. Dead give away. Robotic like understanding. Cheers...good you have hope. The problem is also structural...so they confuse easily.
If someone has a different reality to you then they'll treat you like you're the one who's lying.
To make the case that it can be unintentional, I feel like a legit, real world example was needed in this video. If I am Borderline, I may be experiencing high emotions without much effort on my part. But when I respond by trying to de stabilize someone, that is intentional, like physically hitting someone. And note it may also be a mute point. Suppose a man is known to be high strung, and police try to restrain him. He starts punching and kicking the police. If a psychologist took the stand in his defense and said he had a history of being high strung, the courts and society would shrug and assign the same sentence.
What I got from this video is that a lack of empathy may also accompany BPD, so the person might be examined for possibly being a sociopath.
I was adopted and those who gaslighted me were of very low intelligence. Also they believed I was out to get them.
Dr, what is your take on the harm of psychiatric drugs? It seems that they are so script happy. That pills 'fix" suffering. My experience has been that these drugs cause even more suffering. They cause the very thing they are prescribed to 'treat'. Would appreciate a reponse. Thank you.
6:42 I wouldn't call it a developmental delay or arrest, but a separate developmental trajectory caused by trauma so dysregulating it required an awareness-distorting defense
The developmental delay vs pathological developmental trajectory debate goes back to the 1960s. It is the essence of the debate between Kohut and Kernberg.
@@healnpd Fascinating, thanks for the info. Who is which perspective? I always confuse the two. Like Freud I definitely understand 'narcissism' to be a developmental phase (or rather two distinct, primary and secondary phases) that are present in all 'normal' development. But when I think of a 'narcissist' I think of someone not just developmentally arrested, but actively DEFENDED against shame, and therefore see the shame and the defense against it as the organizing principle, something like "narcissistic injury protection" disorder. I think its relevant to distinguish too what I see as another distinguishable, less acute, pathway from deficits in experience (e.g others who 1) are connected with their own subjectivity and 2) reflect or at least honor the subject's subjectivity [ sounds like narcissistic others...] - general the absence of intersubjective experiences, which also includes privilege/spoiling and neglect), not just the presence of certain "traumatic" experiences. I'm sure your own thoughts include perspectives from both sides, curious to hear more about how you view these potentially discrete or overlapping etiological frames. I think NPD is FASCINATING and am so grateful to find your channel yesterday. I'm also in the mental health profession and agree with a lot of your perspectives around the gradients of the disorder and need to humanize it to understand, and especially the aim of healing. I've reflected on this deep question for a long time as its such an invaluable public health topic for breaking intergenerational and societal cycles of abuse and dehumanization. Thank you!
Glad to find a fellow mental health professional interested in this topic. Kohut is associated with dev arrest, Kernberg with pathological development. Check out this video I made on treatment of NPD. It provides a brief overview of each perspective: kzhead.info/sun/nbyxgsOkr56ooas/bejne.html
SO DO THEY UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU LEAVE NEVER TO RETURN? Do They get the message?😊
How to get through to someone who thinks thryve apologised by being nice or that holding them accountable is trying to get one over them?
You can’t. don’t waste your precious life force trying.
Narcissists never admit the bad they've done,they have to gaslight you to avoid accountability at all costs.Gaslighting and then you are the bad one for wanting them to admit what they've done,YOU are bullying them and then they can abuse you some more!It causes alot of repressed anger in the victim aswell as the effects of the original abuse!
@@Bella-fz9fy repressed anger burns into a growing ember inside until eventually there are only ashes left. your mind splits into insanity/higher perspective. from the split, a motherfucking phoenix rises from the ashes within. the dark ignites into light.
You can't. They just operate on their own subjective terms that make no sense to people with emotional empathy and maturity, and they will keep doing it as long as they can get away with it. They're emotionally immature, it's like trying to get through to an elementary schoolyard bully. How much do you know children to readily accept accountability when they have wronged someone? All you can do is aim for as little contact as possible, for your sanity. If you want accountability, you can try escalating to the proper authorities, but watch out for retaliation.
You Don't. They Don't Process Through The Lens Of Logic/Rationale Nor Empathy/Consideration. They Aren't The Type To Respond To What Is Being Said But Rather Nitpick How You Say It Or Will Use The Fact You're Talking To Them As An Opportunity To Derail The Conversation To Focus/Center Around Whatever They Want To Talk About. When Attempting To Have Them Acknowledge A Concern Or Be Responsible/Accountable For Their Actions; They Won't Focus On The Hyper-Specific/Circumstancial/Situational Thing That You're Talking About & Instead, They'll Deflect All Blame By Using Generalizing Statements Like "I Can't Ever Do Anything Right" "Everything I Do Is Wrong" "Sorry I Can't Be Perfect/Can't Be As Perfect As You" "You're Right & I'm Wrong" "Alright/Okay Fine, You Win" "I'm Only Human" Etc. So They Can Avoid Addressing The Actual Issue Stated At Hand So They Don't Actually Have To Admit/Acknowledgement Any Wrongdoing In The Current Situation & Therefore, Aren't Required To Self-Reflect & Come Correct AKA See The Error In Their Method(s) Of Manuevering & Change/Modify Their Behavior Accordingly. It's Like Talking To A Wall But A Thousand Times More Emotionally/Mentally/Energetically & Invetiably, Physically Draining/Taxing. Take A Detour.
Why is it that people with NPD often refuse to get help even when their actions harm others.
Most personality disorders present with something called ego-syntonic symptoms. That means that the person believes their worldview and way of negotiating interpersonal relationships is correct. They see nothing wrong with their behavior and experience others telling them that something is wrong as an attack. This isn’t true for all individuals with NPD. I have worked with many who are aware that they have an issue and are eager to accept help.
Imagine someone demanding you get help because you hurt them. You see nothing wrong with what you do and can actually justify it all. It makes perfect sense for you why you do what you do. Would you go change yourself solely based on the fact that someone else wants you to be different?
Take a look at your recording settings - your mic channels your voice into one speaker/headphone, the other gets white noise.
Thanks for the tip. I was able to correct the issue. I'm using an older mic and preamp setup, and didn't realize that I need to run the audio through Audacity to combine channels, condense, and amplify.
What's interesting is if you do something to them they don't minimize and magically erase that...even when it's made up or grossly exaggerated
Of course not, to them it is all about "me, me me!" That's what narcissism is. They only think about themselves 100% of the time. Even when they do think about other people it is in relation to them.
Could you comment on comparing and contrasting NPD and psychopathy? Is it accurate to say that narcissists believe their gaslighting delusion and psychopaths know consciously they are being deceitful? Along those same lines, psychopathy and NPD seem to have a lot of similaries and im having trouble teasing them apart.
It can be confusing because the DSM categories for cluster b personality styles have relatively poor construct validity and there is often significant bleed over. People with NPD will often have some psychopathic traits, borderline traits, and histrionic traits, and vice versa. I find it helpful to think about the core conflicts that are often characteristic of each style. For NPD, the core conflict is usually about self worth. For psychopathy, it is often a desire for omnipotent control of other people. For the borderline personality style, it is a conflict around closeness versus abandonment. For histrionic personalities, it is conflict around fear of interpersonal domination that often results in a counter-phobic ‘seductive’ quality. These are rough and extremely simplified. It is totally possible for someone to have a combination of these central conflicts.
@@healnpd that makes a lot of sense thank you! One more question? Do you think that NPD is more nature or nurture?
I think all psychology is a combination of both. I don’t believe that any personality disorder occurs in the absence of significant and chronic environmental deficits.
@@healnpd what about the abundant cases in twin studies of fraternal twins where one is well-adjusted and conscientious and the other is clearly psychopathic, borderline, or NPD. Would you suspect that one of those children must have been severely abused or neglected and the other spared?
I think it’s like an old timey scale. The more genetic vulnerability, the less environmental trauma/deficit is required. Fraternal twins don’t have identical genes. Identical twins don’t have identical gene expression. They also often play different roles in the family and have different personalities based on those roles.
You say near the end of the video "gaslit maybe intentionally". Gaslighting is by definition INTENTIONAL. If it's not intentional, then it's not gaslighting - it could be dementia, or some other cognitive issue.
Gaslighting by npd sister has caused me a lot of pain…now very very low contact and it’s much better
I know someone with NPD that also works as a psychotherapist. Do you think she can harm her patients or even take advantage of them????
Are they diagnosed with NPD? It is not likely that someone with an active, diagnosable personality disorder as interpersonally provocative and antagonistic as NPD would make it through the schooling, training, and supervised clinical experiences required to get licensed as a therapist. It’s not impossible, but it is unlikely.
@@healnpd Her behaviour when dealing with others in public is completely different. She is a covert narcissist, I am talking about my ex spouse. I am yet to recover from the trauma she inflicted on me even after separating from her 2 yrs ago.She has all the symptoms of a covert narcissist that includes zero remorse and not caring about other people's feelings. She has also managed to isolate me from my family through smear campaigns. Furthermore, she uses sex a lot as means of getting what she wants
But how do I get her to leave me alone. Go away!" didn't work, I don't have time for you, didn't work, I have been doing my best to avoid you, didn't work, ignoring her when she says, "Hi Mark" doesn't work. Why won't she leave me alone, I refuse to be one of her drones, she has many boyfriends.
Can’t speak to your specific situation, but I once dated someone who wouldn’t leave me alone after we broke up. I tried to set subtle boundaries at first, then more explicit ones. Finally, I had to tell them flat out: “I don’t want to see you ever again. I don’t want to be your friend. I don’t want you to call me, ever. I never want to talk to you for any reason ever again.” That did the trick. Some people need to have it spelled out very explicitly. Then block their number. If they show up where you live, don’t let theme in. If they won’t go away, call the police. Hope this helps.
@@healnpd Thanks! I'll do what I can to get her away from me. Did you know they spread lies about you. Just kidding.
@@markh4926 they spread many lies
That is what narcisists are famous for...they spread lies about you after a Split Up
FINALLY A COMPELLING ANALYSYS ON GASLIGHTING THANK YOU
They remember very well what YOU did to them though
No sound on this upload.
It is only in one channel. Move your balance to the left or right speaker and you’ll hear it. Sorry for the trouble. 😥
Hi doctor, you look like The actor Michael Keaton ( the Batman)
FYI Referring to a narcissist with no sadism? We have NO IDEA what narcissist that is!!! Please examine what you call a Malignant Narcissudt
I'm sorry, but my ex gaslighted me for fun. weeks later he'd admit to it, laughing, saying "of course I remember".
a few times my ex miraculously apologized and admitted to intentionally provoking me to get upset. I also think he pretended not to remember things, etc
@Leticia I can’t speak to your individual experience, or whether or not your ex legitimately could have been diagnosed with pathological narcissism or NPD. But speaking generally, individuals with these issues often exhibit extreme polarities in their presentation. I imagine that at other times your ex was the polar opposite of the cruel person who “gaslighted you for fun.” These disparities in presentation are evidence of deep instability in the personality. They are not usually evidence that the person has a high level of self control or insight into their own behavior. To be perfectly clear, I am NOT saying that this absolves someone of responsibility for their behaviors or the effect it has on other people.
yes indeed, if the had decent level of consciousness certainly they would not have performed such behavior
Sound is coming from one side only
😣