Social Anxiety and NPD
In this episode, Dr. Ettensohn discusses the relationship between social anxiety and pathological narcissism and NPD, focusing on underlying fears of shame and humiliation, loss of self, and the legacy of relational trauma.
The second half of the episode discusses general strategies for addressing social anxiety.
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References:
Sartre, J.P. (1964). Nausea. New Directions Publishing Corp.
#npd #narcissism #mentalhealth #mentalhealthawareness #dsm #psychology #healing #socialanxiety
I will remove comments that are abusive to any individual (including myself) or population. This includes comments that are abusive toward pwNPD.
As a psychologist i have to state this is the most professional, objective channel on youtube about NPD. Congratulation and thank you for this quality content.
Appreciated
Agreed. I wish I found it sooner!
“The pain of feeling like in some essential way they are outside the human experience - of the burden of always having to Watch themselves and always having to gauge how they’re doing” “of not having the feeling like they can relax or truly be in the moment” i relate to this so much
Spot on constant HELL
I am in treatment for NPD. You content is a great complement. Thank you so much for being a sensible, kind, professional voice.
Thanks for your feedback, and keep up the good work!
I just discovered your videos. You are fulfilling a niche not covered by doctors Ramani or Vaknin; you actually feel more like a therapy session, albeit one-way. Keep it up.
Will do.
It's not even one way, because I'm receiving Value from this right now, especially the Parent responding to the Child asking......Am I Good, Am I Loved, Am I Safe.......it is Priceless......I felt that myself....... Thank You, Doctor..... we have so much in Common w people w/NPD.......it's Amazing!!!!♡
I think that before the treatment starts, one has to identify the abusers, most of the time, are the own parents... care givers... I knew there was something wrong with my ones. Because i was away, with little contact, with them, for over 10 years, i got space and time to reflect on the past, and came to the conclusion, that they were not only negletfull towards me but also towards my siblings (my oldest sister got pregnant at 16 and my father threw her out of the house, he severly spanked another sister with a stick, my brother ended up living on the streets... my mother remaried, did not invite us, sold the house and mooved away, without consulting us). So after thinking about the spectrum of types of parenthood i realised that, all families have problems, they differ in the way they aproach those problems. Some, like my father and mother dismisse their children (worse then mine, some kill their children) others can solve it through words an love. After i realized who was to blame, for the disfunctional family, where atrocities were commited towards inocent children, caught in unconditional love towards their abusive parents, i felt rage but also relief, i finaly identified the root of the problem. Of course it is dificult for anyone, to realize, that their own care givers are their worst enemies... But so be it. It freed me from the confusion... I got lucky and threw up everything i had inside of me on my father, he died 1 year later. It was a relief, to know that he took all his crimes with him to the grave, he was 84... He really thought he was going to escape... Started trying to play the victim "my mother..." i interruped him "Now you want to play the victim?", i got furious and eveything came out, felt like an exorcism 😂... My mother i just ignore her, but wrote her 2 letters, expeling all the horrible thing she did. Sorted. I found my inner peace, no one can get to me, i understand enough to keep calm. Learned about mental health conditons and i'm happy. I used to be sad with happy moments, now i'm happy with sad moments. Big difference. My siblings are all severly damadged, prepetuated my parents behaviour on their own children... Sickning to watch... but you know what? I sorted my self out, can not save the world. Narcisist rage is directed to the wrong people, they want to do it towards, their mother of father or care giver, but don't know it, or have not found the courage. All their behaviour is the incapacity to accept that, their care givers are to blame... in my opinion! ❤
Seconded. Dear Dr. Ettensohn thank you indeed for your empathic and therapeutic support to all of us, irrespective of the nature of issues. Social anguish can be daunting at times. I am most grateful to you for your profoundly informative work, breathing kindness and understanding.
Ramani is terrible. I’m sorry but she’s a showgirl dr. And it’s sad. And she shouldn’t ever discuss NPD. She attacks the patient at a personal level saying things like “evil” and “purposely” I feel like she may be the personality type that creates this disorder. She isn’t very great on this topic. I believe my husband has NPD and my heart aches for him. I love him and wish he loved himself and saw himself the was I do. I go thru the abuse delvauings cheatings selfishness lack of empathy and or care in the actions that hurt. But it’s not like that all the time. Sometimes/ most of the time ( been married 20ys) hes the best and loves me. He always has some traits but he is good. So good. I love him and I watch these videos in hopes that maybe someday he will too. Also helps me combat certain things that happen. I am trying to get better at not reacting and remembering that he is feeling the way he is attacking me. Which truthfully neither of us are as bad as he is saying. I definitely have to carry the household in most situations because he just isn’t able to handle things but he is good at loving me when he is “my husband”. I hope to never have to leave him. This year 2023 has been very very rough. Been pushed to mins before filing more than a couple times. He has started to say I am the narcissist. Covert and I abuse him. Which had been the worst form of his abuse to date. Because not only do I endure it for days or weeks at a time sometimes now I’m supposed to take the blame for abusing him. It’s absolutely horrific to not hear sorry but rather I’m the abuser. I ask for specific examples of my abuse ( I have many examples to offer him) but he always dodges the question with “ I shouldn’t have to tell you” or “ I’ve told you for years I’m not telling you anymore “ while not ever telling me. Or I get “ I don’t owe you anything” it gets pretty exhausting. Well anyway my point to this was when I finally started to see what name I could put to it. Was listening to Dr Ramani and her ability to “ shame the patient “ was so gut wrenching to me. I had to stop and try and find someone else. I found many much better Drs. And this channel is by FAR AND WIDE the BEST! Most encouraging and positive I’ve seen. This is how a patient should be treated. So anyway. I love it here. Yall have come to the right spot!! After reading this novel. I’m sorry but I felt the need to explain my situation. Haha ok well happy new year! Here’s to a healing year in 2024. ❤🎉❤🎉
Another reason that your approach releases me from the confusion I feel when listening to or reading other NPD experts, is that while I’m predominately (I think) the victim of childhood narcissistic abuse, I feel I have narcissistic traits myself, too. In the approach on other channels, there are only victims and perpetrators, the good and the bad. Not only don’t I see “just bad people” in my abusive relatives, but I also don’t see a perfectly virtuous individual in myself. (In fact the thought is wonderfully absurd.) Now - I want to acknowledge my own narcissistic traits, but in the black and white worldview, this leads me to constantly ruminate whether, possibly, I am “the” narcissist, or also a narcissist. Especially since I’m very aware that many narcissists see themselves as victims and the world outside as mean and disappointing. That’s unproductive. With your clear and coherent explanations, I think I see reality more for what it is. I’m not a narcissist, but I do have traits, I have a lot of vulnerabilities such as you address, and that doesn’t suddenly put me in the dark camp - instead, it’s something I can learn to understand and allow, instead of just hoping I’m mistaken and that’s not really a part of me. I just don’t gain anything from the antagonistic approach. (Although it had its value in getting out of the phase of being too understanding and forgiving, to my detriment.) Now I feel I am in learning mode, instead of “condemn and vilify” mode. Finally, your insights have more internal logic than the theories, if they’re really full blown theories, that I usually find online and in books. This is a model of human behaviour and dynamics. The others are often more of a get-together of like minded individuals - with which there is nothing wrong, but does it support our growth? I once read an interview with a man who spent his whole life doing research into - well, I forget the exact description, but what it came down to is that he researched wars, holocausts and other forms of catastrophic human behaviour. He said there was one main thing he had learned from his lifetime of doing that. And it was simply this: that the root of all such catastrophe is, and now I go verbatim, people believing they are better than other people. Condemning narcissism, especially as a societal trend, is very very important. But creating an artificial division between good and bad people is not. Just look at the many comments in which people say, literally, “I don’t regard them as human.” That disturbs me. Dutch writer Abel Herzberg who survived the concentration camps said about Hitler, in an interview: “I feel sorry for him as a human being.” He did not mean that we should in any way forgive or justify what Hitler did. He did not mean that he underestimated the evil of Hitler. He probably did not mean that he wouldn’t have killed Hitler if he had had the opportunity to. But he saw the entirety of the human drama. As we see in the massive support Hitler had, evil doesn’t come from inhuman demons. It comes from us. So yes. This nuanced and internally logical approach is needed if we want to be full human beings instead of caricatures fighting the evil in others. I could not say this in the very many narcissism posts on Quora, because it would lead to strong hostility, as I’ve noticed. Not that one should be swayed by that.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
This is helping me understand my mother and how to interact with her. Please don’t stop.
me too!
Thank you for this video! I was aware of having social anxiety for many years before I realized the other feelings I struggled with were NPD symptoms, so it's interesting to know these two can be so closely connected. Would you consider making a video on grief upon realizing one has NPD? Like, I feel like I've never really lived my life as "me" - I lived it as an avatar of myself, one full of jealousy, hate, spite and feelings of superiority. There were so many relationships I could've saved, so much autoagresssion I could've avoided and so many years I could've spent just living in peace instead of - as you phrase it in your book - a house with a floor that could collapse under me at any moment. I don't know how to cope with these feelings.
Wow! How honest of you.. I hope I am able to be as honest.
I can relate to your comment word for word! It’s quite an intense mix of feelings learning the NPD traits I have
@aidensmith7141 My husband watched these videos and is identifying with NPD or cluster B disorder. It’s only been about two weeks but he’s been revealing so much to me. I feel like I’m meeting him for the first time in ways, but I’m just more solving a puzzle, he doesn’t know who he is (He said, “It’s hard to nail down who or what I am.”) I wonder if he’s feeling similarly. I see it’s been 4 months. How are you doing now?
@@drebugsitaHow are you doing now?
How Courageous n Brave of you to Face this, I applaud your Desire to be willing to do the Work
You're really doing exceptional work, but it's good to stay human and have doubts and worries, too. I've been through a lot of online abuse & dogpiling silliness and it's really nothing compared to silencing yourself and not speaking from your own conscience. Most of our best thinkers & healers through history were "canceled" in some way, so please just continue to speak your mind and don't worry about internet trolls, even hoardes of them. Your audience is listening and understands you.
Noticing a change in a person with NPD in social settings, makes me want to sooth them. I’ll focus in on them like they’re my world. All I see is them. They are important and ok.
I want to thank you for all of your hard work and your input, despite your anxiety about such a topic. I really like your channel and I appreciate the message, tone, etc.
Thanks, and thanks for watching!
Being educated doesn’t make us less anxious! I have the same feelings I may say something that doesn’t reflect well w many! Being authentic rather than social is a goal I’m striving for! Gabor Mate talked about our need to be liked vs living our authentically meaningful lives.
You have pointed out a very good topic. There is a relation between NPD and social anxiety and this was the first video on youtube that explains this subject. I'll be following you, take care!
Thanks for watching and following!
Thank you for this video! This is a real issue that I struggle with, even in my personal relationships. Also, I WILL go to war for you. FRONT LINES!
Haha. Thanks for your support.
If they come after Mark we'll just rally the borderlines. I'm even scared of the pwBPD on my channel LOL
@@Thenamelessnarcissist 😂 Agreed!
I’m in lol
@@Thenamelessnarcissist😅♥️
I have been watching or reading or listening to information about NPD for close on four years now. I always had the feeling that something was missing but I didn't know what until I found your channel. Your humanistic viewpoint is giving me the missing part. I have found compassion for those suffering from this disorder. Coming from a npd run home and observing the ravages on all of us siblings who were in different roles of scapegoat etc I feel that you have captured the true essence. Thank you for your honesty. Love and light to you.
Thanks.
Excellent video thank you. I am in a very tricky situation, have a lot of BPD, NPD, PTSD and psychosis symptoms combined and the social anxiety has been building the exact way you decribe : it started with the fear of panic attack at the supermarket and now any movement from my bed or chair triggers anxiety. I force myself to go biking but I have to stay close to walls or cars for I have a strange fear of falling and am constantly watching for objects that I could use to catch myself if I was to fall. As for fear of rejection, I grew up in a very dysfunctional household where hostility and insult were an everyday thing, and only directed at myself, by my mother. I am guarding the cat of my girlfriend and when it refuses caresses it triggers my fear of annihilation because I think "see even a simple cat can smell that you are a bad person". I just wanted to end this comment by a request / question. I have read about mental illness for the last seven years and being in the aforementioned condition I came to the seeming conclusion that NPD is the first line of defense against deep self fragmentation, that if narcissism doesn't succeed (for example the parents are too cold and do not give any positive feedback) then BPD takes it place, which is kind of a reversed NPD (replace grandiosity by deep self loathing, NPD being "I am the best" and BPD being "I am the worst") but aims at the same securing of attention / affection, through pity instead of through admiration, because a BPD person is too fragmented to believe they can be successful. The last part of my theory is that when BPD doesn't succeed at maintaining the psyche either, notably when the parents are not only cold and invalidating but actually hostile (when actual threats of murder take place) combined with isolation from external feedback then the psyche breaks down further into DID, psychosis, or schizophrenia. I hope I make sense, but I was wondering if you could make a video on the topic, and if not, just answer me what you think of my theory, if it makes sense to you and what is your own theory on the matter.
I study all these social models too_ I had 2 pathological caregivers_ I knew before 5 that they were monsters and my friends mom's were more like parents to me than my own parents. I think your connections that npd morphs into bpd morphs into psychosis is a natural progression of being left in a garbage can to die_and now the zombies lived to tell their stories of baby murder.
The ending of this video is especially helpful. If you have social anxiety I recommend leaning into what Mark says at the end. It may feel uncomfortable but you can overcome it ♥️
Thank u so much Marc for ur insightful videos. And keep on making these videos. Most of the people have negativity towards narcassists. When we start something which is against majority, it needs power, courage and persistence and fruit of this is compassion, understanding and better world. By doing so , u r helping in building better world. It's through ur work and my deep introspection that I am able to understand my ex narcassist partner. And through this, I am understanding myself better and be coming freer. Thank u so much and keep doing what u r doing. People who need this will find u
Thanks for your support and for watching. I’m glad to know that you have found this channel helpful! 😊
I respect and admire your honesty and courage, Dr. Ettensohn. I am not narcissistic but I do experience a great deal of anxiety. Coping with it and trying to get out of my comfort zone is an exhausting enterprise. Sometimes I just don’t want to learn anything new and just live in a comfortable little bubble.
Welp. That part during #3 when you showed the picture of the inner child may or may not have brought tears to my eyes. Great video - thanks, Mark. Also I may need to watch more of these.
😢 Thanks for watching!
Excellent and very helpful content as usual. Thank you. It was worth the wait, both from your last video, but also in my life. At 40, I'm finally coming to terms with my narcissism, and your videos are working in tandem with therapy to recognise, accept and attend to this aspect of my psychology with real understanding and compassion. An alternative title for this channel would be 'RealNPD'. I appreciate so much what you're doing. No pressure! 🙂 And PS. if the hounding mobs do come after you, you've got an army of narcissists like me who'll defend and protect you! 😁
The social anxiety manifests itself in different ways. In more 'overt' narcs, it can come across as 'mania' and/or nervous energy. Love your videos by the way. They are very objective, which is refreshing.
Thank you to you and the nameless narcissist for both your videos. My narcissist isn't a intentionally nasty character. I see he struggles with all these things you mentioned. I hate him being demonised when I can see he is a person who is in a lot of pain. He can be an ass sometimes but I can understand why he does what he does. I have just learnt not to play into it and allow him to abuse my good will.
❤
You do still have your boundaries right? Because he shouldn't hurt you too much.
@@qa5038 Actually I have moved on from him now. He didn't try to manipulate me much anymore because I think he could see I didn't fall for that. But like most people with NPD is that they are players, I wasn't up to that. Just gave up.
@@SusanGoslin That's good news. You oughta take care of yourself.
@@SusanGoslin Did he know that he was a narcissist btw?
Important question: It's known for narcissists to have low or lack of empathy, but do all narcissists have empathy that's low and lacking? The criteria for NPD is 5 or more symptoms that impact daily living, meaning that a narcissist may not relate to all of the symptoms, just five in order to receive a diagnosis. That means narcissists can have average empathy or even high empathy, right? Narcissists are so villainized that even professionals often see their narcissistic clients as low in empathy, but the clients who fit the criteria are overlooked for the diagnosis simply because they have empathy. I have very high emotional empathy and genuinely care about other most people. Some I don't at all and I think they are too dense to understand me. My therapist says that I am highly intuitive, intelligent, and self aware, yet her assessment for me is currently "borderline personality disorder with mixed personality traits and grandiose delusions". She specializes mostly in psychosis and delusions. She describes me how I describe myself and that also includes past therapists. They commonly tell me that I'm indeed very self aware and smart, but it feels wrong, like they're egging my ego on. I grew up only being loved and seen if I was "very smart" or "highly intelligent" so that's where my ego lies. I was the smart kid and I have difficulty letting go of that. The thing is, grandiose delusions must be untrue beliefs in order to be, well, delusions. If I describe myself how literal professionals describe me too, then am I delusional? In 2020, I became self aware about my BPD before seeing a professional and now I'm diagnosed with it. I look at the NPD criteria and I fit more than 5 of the symptoms. The only one I don't fit into is low empathy. Some of my relationships are for my own benefit, but I still have enough understanding of ethics that I am able to care for the other person and display a sense of friendship even if I am just with them to fulfill boredom and feel better. I don't exactly think I'm delusional since I'm self aware about both my skills and flaws, I think I'm narcissistic, but I don't feel like it's appropriate to say downright that I have NPD until I'm properly evaluated. I feel like it's more complex to diagnose than BPD since it's far more misunderstood. I've just been so confused about the whole thing. My last therapist couldn't even accept that I was borderline so she tried saying that I'm autistic instead. She specializes mostly in autism and was obsessed with me supposedly being autistic. She hated people with BPD and saw them as vindictive and bad. This is what I've noticed a lot is that you will commonly get diagnosed based on what your current therapist specializes the most in, therefore, if you're an enigma like me, you will get misdiagnosed easily.
Hey Doc, you're awesome. We all face snipers out there, sometimes within our own house. Sometimes from people who actually love us. But you're doing great work, and helping people. I urge you to get BIG and help more people. Thank you for what you do.
Thanks. 🙂
I've had social anxiety for as long as I can remember. I have no problem dealing with people one on one but throw in that extra person and my comfortability level suddenly changes. I'll never forget the fear of having to make a speech in front of the English class in Junior High School or quitting History class because it required public speaking in a Mock Parliament type situation. I faced this very fear head on and got up in later life to speak in front of a large group @ a Human Rights Conference and found that my mind actually went into an almost blank state followed by a feeling of emotional panic. I went completely off script and just spoke from the heart as I could not keep focused on the subject. I got quite emotional and on the brink of tears. A form of emotional dysregulation I'd say. I was actually pleasantly surprised after I was done that one of the listeners, a middle aged woman from Portugal, came up and told me that she was deeply moved by what I had to say and that I should consider becoming a Pastor, which amused me because I am an Atheist. The instructor of the class told me he was also very surprised at how well I did and was surprised that I even got up to speak at all and thought I was going to back out. I've made a few attempts since but will never do it again. The point is that most of people didn't know how I was feeling at the time but knowing this doesn't help with my social anxiety anyway. I have no idea why this fear is so deeply inbedded into my Psyche. I've watched several of your videos over the past few days and must tell you that I am fully impressed with your knowledge on this subject. So thank you for making the effort.
How interesting that you also suffer from social anxiety. For decades I thought was only me. Thank you for letting your vulnerability hang out. It certainly humanizes you and makes me feel less freakish.
Glad to know you feel less alone. I try to be open about my psychology when and where it feels appropriate. I don’t think we should stigmatize mental illness or fetishize visions of mental health. I’ve never met a person who didn’t struggle with some physical issue, and I’ve likewise never met someone who didn’t struggle with a mental one. 🤷🏻♂️
Appreciate your content so much. This topic hits home for me as I'm not able to "work a room" or even make small talk in the way that some grandiose narcissists can at times and I would say that this has even cost me some professional opportunities. Definitely appreciate content that helps me understand these patterns and work to change them
Some of us care deeply for people suffering with this and appreciate this view point. I can also see long suffering people who are being abused, continue to try to help their abuser after hearing them. You are in a tight spot. Your content is really for therapists and narcissistic people. I wonder if it might help if you also advised intimate partners of people with np. Some of us are not able to help them and are not safe.
I'm learning so much, about people, generally, from you. You're gifted. I hope you become world famous and that you write a lot of books and that you make the much needed impact on our culture. Thank you.
Wow, thank you!
Great video! You explain narcissism in a really concise way. It’s refreshing to hear more about what the condition actually is rather than YT sensationalism of ‘top 5 narcissistic abuse strategies’.
Thanks, and thanks for watching. 🙂
Dr. Ettensohn, you are for a novel prize and some big statues. Nobody until you described my condition so precisely. I thought narcissists are the cliche vain malicious etc... would have never thought that I am one, and how to heal etc. Thank you so much! If every fragile ego person discovers you this would change so many destinies...
"as a toddler and through childhood my foster mother would use others to make me feel ashamed. they had a large family with many foster children and when i had done something wrong, she would tell the others about it and they would all look at me angrily or with contempt". this is how i remember her, but im not sure it is correct. The foster parents habitually acted in one way when interacting with others outside of the family, and would trash talk when they left. This hurt my trust and for many years i thought all peopple were like that. I suspect i have npd but i have learned not to act on it. i am totally numbed down in social settings instead, just trying to survive. i sometimes get grandiose feelings about myself, but i dont act on them. i would like to feel at peace and be a better mother. your videos are very helpful. You do not discard persons with npd, as untreatable. Thank you!
Thankyou for being honest, it helps me to be honest with myself too. I understand your fear. But I just hope that it helps you to know that your videos are helping a lot of people who need it ,hwne you worry about people won't agree with your content. I am really really struggling with understanding myself and as I'm also autistic I have a hard time explaining my feelings and thoughts, mix that with my symptoms actually making me keep the thoughts and feelings to myself even if I do manage to understand them, the memory loss and the denial and not wanting to look bad in people's eyes. It's a mess. I am planning to show some of your videos to my mental health assessor to help explain how I have always felt. You're helping so many people to compassionately understand themselves with such complicated and vilified symptoms.
Thanks for letting me know you find my channel helpful. My best to you on your journey. 🙂
Thank you doc! ❤
You're AMAZING!!! Thanks
Thank you so much for sharing your excellent understanding with us! Incredible work! You've filled in SO many blanks.
It helped me a lot what you said. I have 35 years male dark skin and from the Dominican Republic. I have social anxiety and NPD, I have perfeccionism and now isolated without communication with my family, friends or anyone and do not have friends at work and do not talk very often, but your video gave me hope once again and it allowed me to forget the feelings of rejections for when people around me want me to change because of what they would like themselves to hear from someone loving and these come to me as critisism and proof that everything I do is wrong and that I'm destrying everyone around me without a way to avoid it. I thank you for your kind and wise words which have been extremely informative in this moment of extreme emotional pain and confusion. Thank you you have given me clarity.
Great content .
Thank you.
This was excellent. Very relatable.
You woke me up. Thank you.
It is very good advice to parent yourself. I appreciate this video.
thank you, this helps me a lot
Wow it's scary how accurate your descriptions are to me anyways, it's very close to my current state of mind. Thanks for the video and advices 🤗🥰
You're so welcome!
❤❤❤ your videos .
🤗
Thank you =)
You're welcome!
I like how your channel doesnt stigmatize people with this, or other, disorders. I would encourage people, myself included, not to rationalize abuse though. Leave if thats happening, even if there's a good reason your person is not well. Having said that, this was a very informative Video and made me think about my social anxiety in a new way. TY
I like your choices of the images you put throughout the video. They really capture what you're saying.
Thanks! 😊
I really really appreciate this video, Mark!
Glad it was helpful!
This channel is absolutely amazing, not to mention important and necessary! Please keep making videos, I cannot thank you enough!
Thanks, will do!
Thank you Mark for being who you are. Your understanding and compassionate approach to the subject of therapy shows that there's another way, a better way to help people heal. You're my rolemodel for something I didn't even know I should have a rolemodel for.
He`s really good
This video helped me so much. Thank you
I'm so glad!
I have Autism. The high pitch hum in this video gives me anxiety. ;) Good video doc. I was misdiagnosed with Bi-Polar1. This is one of the first videos I’ve watched that referenced the misdiagnosis.
@SuttonART - Thanks for watching. Sorry about the noise in this video. I have upgraded my mic since producing this one. 👍🏻
Thanks so much for
Most welcome
Thank you so so much for your contents ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡
You're very welcome. Thanks for watching!
You have added a lot of clarity and profound information regarding narcissism. Thank you. It has been extremely helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
Your presentations are very concise, and to the point. You also have great clarity of expression. I love.
Thank you! 🙂
Great video.
Great video Mark
Thanks!
Hi. Thank you for all your videos. Soooo insightful. Also, your perspective is matter of fact, unbiased. My ex -partner was a malignant narcissist. Your videos are so helpful to understand the dynamics that unfolded.
Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your own feelings on the subject.
Thank-you for this. This is me to a capital T, and your honest explanation of the causes gives me permission to forgive myself.
Great post, Dr. Ettensohn. You touched on fantasy. And is fantasy a main component of NPD? To the extent that they are not in touch with reality at all?
Thank you for being respectful and kind. The algorithm just placed your video so that I could see it. I began listening to others on KZhead as soon as there language became offensive. I stopped listening. You legitimately care about others and you get the facts across for others to be knowledgeable in those types of mental illness. I would like to thank you. ❤️
I d like know you point about the last part of treatment,when you must face live whithout defenses, thank you, you so helpfull ¡!!!!!!
Good video
Thanks ☺️
The way you describe this is very sympathetic and genuinely makes me feel for these people (and all of us for that matter who have damaged boundaries, narcissist or not). The problem with NPD is that these people look to project their pain or desire etc onto someone else. That is the problem. It's the only problem! The feeling anxious or the being pre-occupied with social standing, or looks/appearance, or living in fantasy world etc - none of these things are problems by themselves. It is only when they seek to use other people and expect(not want, but EXPECT) them to 'participate' (and can turn nasty if they don't) that the behaviour becomes toxic.
Could you talk about the trouble that comes with hypomanic grandiosity highs?
I love these videos, they help me cope with the treatment someone who is very dear to me inadvertently perpetrates on me.He has severe NPD but his cycles of pushing me away and pulling me close are very painful and its hard not to devalue myself. I have decided to stay by his side as a friend as his infidelity makes a romantic relationship too difficult for me to stay in. I hope at some point to see him in therapy because he is in so much pain ,its difficult to watch. Ty for all the info a.d your compassion for tbese struggling ,broken ppl
12:49 thanks so much for explaining the anxiety loop into a negative negative state and how do you work through and get to a positive positive state. Excellent work thanks so much :-)
I don't think your channel will stay small for much longer. The knowledge you share in your gentle patient manner thoroughly explaining the different processes at work wouldn't be easily criticized. I figure their are people who have an agenda for the false portrayed of narcissism or there was a bunch of ignorant ppl teaching each other what they thought narcissism was. I can't see one thing that could be taken out of context so I have a feeling you'll end up with a large following of ppl thirsty for knowledge that allows us to heal and learn to live. That's above priceless. Thank you!
You’re helping me a lot. I can already feel my stagnancy shifting. I have been stuck where I got horrified by what my family has done. It was hitting the realization that my family is a bunch of demon reptiles plagued with the Jezebel spirit. And NOW I figured out their secret I didnt want since they gonna come get me for knowing it! And because not allowed to leave them, I guess to them the abuse wasn’t enough, my departure meant declaration of War. Weeee Creepy creepy. My mom be posted up more charming than Ted Bundy. Then Grandma stacked malignantly vengeful on some evil spree as if she has secret secrets as the female John Wayne Gacy. Years ago she made me believe that my son died by accident and that it was my fault. I felt so awful and hated myself that I actually deleted my perception. You can imagine that making life a lil difficult. More difficult than difficulties should be allowed to squeeze into one dilemma!
Ok so we can get over the anxiety it didn't kill us but it sure as hell killed our new friendship because at that moment you were unable to connect with their greif.
Thank you Dr., I am at the moment dealing with a narcissistic ex, he has become obsessive and I’m even considering going to the police. However, I do not see him as necessarily evil or “demonic” as I found narcissists described in some videos here on KZhead. Your videos are such a breath of fresh air, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
Feeling that anybody can turn his/her back on you or worse at any time for any reason is quite rational with probability of something like that happening to you at some point approaching 100%.
Could you please do a video on your suggestions of how a friend/partner can best communicate and support someone with npd? Thank you for the great content you post.
That's a great suggestion. You can also check out my book, which is written for folks who want to improve their relationship.
@@healnpd I sure will! Thank you so much!
i like the jacket 😊
Me too! 😊
Do you have any videos explaining the “ supply “ meaning on what it really means ?
I thought they are shamelessly causing drama to suck energy from others. love this video btw
Hi Dr Ettensohn. I am enjoying your teaching but have only heard 4-5 of your lectures. I am waiting to see if it is your intension to educate me on how to deal with/live among those who have been diagnosed with NPD. I believe I am a codependent suffering with self love deficit. Much of what you are teaching re diagnosis is way over my head. I just want to know how to get along, overcome and dodge the pain caused by those suffering from NPD. Your teaching is very interesting, but do you suggest that I look elsewhere to learn what I am after?
You might check out my book. It is written for laypersons with a narcissistic lived one, boss, friend, etc. it’s called Unmasking Narcissism. You can find it on Amazon or at major book retailers. Also, here: www.drettensohn.com/unmasking-narcissism
Dr. I know you help me see the other side of my son. Hes been called a narc. And hes angry all the time. Ive noticed more men acting this way than i used to.
What’s the difference between vulnerable narcissism and avoidant personality disorder
Are you aware of any specific traits that are unique to narcissists? Could you share about that?
I don’t know if it’s unique to narcissism, but I would say that social anxiety for narcissists typically includes pronounced sensitivity to feeling shamed, humiliated, or ‘less than’ those around them.
Mark can I ask a question? I was wondering, Marsha Linehan describes pwBPD being like burn victims where everything hurts their skin. Is it the same for pwNPD? Do they feel everything so intensely like their borderline friends do? Just curious. Thank you
That’s a great question. Individuals with NPD are not so different from those wjth BPD. The underlying personality organization is similar. One of the main differences is that individuals with NPD have developed a false self experience to defend against the “skinless” feeling Linehan describes. They often have a feeling of being impervious or invincible when their grandiose defenses are functioning well. In this state, pwNPD will react angrily, incredulously, or disdainfully toward anything that doesn’t explicitly support their grandiose self image. However, in a vulnerable phase of the disorder, pwNPD are often very sensitive to feeling criticized, shamed, unworthy, or humiliated.
@@healnpd thank you so much. When you put it like that it makes a lot of sense. I think this will help me understand my friend more.
@@healnpd So, similarly, is the “discard and devalue” thing just a pop psychology term used for pwNPD? Is it the same as splitting which both pwBPD and pwNPD do? Or is it something different? I think there’s a lot of people with BPD that deeply care about people with NPD and explaining it in ways we can relate to helps to understand what they’re experiencing when they’re reacting extremely.
Sometimes it is based on splitting. It is also based on a related defense called idealization/devaluation. People with NPD tend to idealize others at first, and then have difficulty dealing with that person’s flaws or imperfections as the relationship develops. The idealization eventually flips over to become devaluation. It isn’t a calculated thing like it’s often portrayed. It is based in the individual’s difficulty having a nuanced, balanced, and realistic image of themselves and other people.
@@healnpd and people with BPD do that too and they don’t do it on purpose either. Ok, one last one for the night. Narcissist collapse is a term used in understanding narcissism. Do borderlines have a borderline collapse? I’ve googled it and I can’t find anything about it. I feel like that should be a term too. Speaking from personal experience to be honest.
I was osticized when pregnant at 15 and still today sometimes when I tell my children's ages and they know my age. Is cease to exist the same as feeling that pain and sadness may be so deep that suicide might happen? Can a person have anxiety and paranoia but never be hurtful towards others? And be living with a covert or malignant narcissist who is hurtful? This is a hurtful world and crime is soaring, how does this play into it?
@amyteurlife9408 - Many people struggle with depression and anxiety and are not hurtful to those around them. Your comment mentions suicide. Please know that there are resources available to help. If you are in the US, anyone can call or text 988 to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. It is free of charge.
I’ve heard it said that shyness is in fact conceit, so what you say may have some merit. I’m reluctant to label my social anxiety as narcissism, however, because it seems to imply that it’s not a legitimate problem, but a mere character defect.
@racheln8563 - The video isn’t making the claim that social anxiety is narcissism. Rather, social anxiety is a common issue for those with pathological narcissism and NPD. It’s sort of like saying that those with a cold often have the sniffles but the sniffles do not, by themselves, equal a cold.
Everybody fears criticism!! Social anxiety in NPD is obviously coming from a different place. I am a recovering codependent so similar traits but not a personality disorder.
I wonder if you watched the whole video? My fear of criticism is just the intro to the topic of social anxiety. If you watch past the first minute or so, you’ll find a psychodynamic explanation for social anxiety that is specific to pathological narcissism and NPD.
I have intellectual disability with pragmatic social communication disorder and extroverted. People truly hate me. I live being victimized. So it is me, not them that is the issue. People can't stand goofy, odd creepy intellectual impaired people. I was dx autism but now ASD b/c not all symptoms. Narcissists want to be perfect socially and no one can be perfect socially. I just want the abuse to stop and i want a few mentally impaired friends like myself. I want to go unnoticed in life and have peace and be good person. Sorry so long and wordy. BTW I am elderly old lady lonely, all alone.
I’m sorry that you feel alone. I hope you are able to find some feelings of peace and belonging. It’s something to which we are all entitled.
If it's a magic belief, it's not plausible! or, as the One and Only *Judge Judy* says: "If it doesn't make sense, it's probably a lie (or self delusion)!
I love Judge Judy 🥲♥️
Yeah, I really get tired of the “they’re evil, they’re demons…run, girl, run!” tone of the other narcissism-themed channels. For the rare self-aware narc genuinely trying to improve, victim-focused channels like Dr. Ramani’s are discouraging. The open derision of channels like this from the likes of H.G. Tudor strikes me as terribly unfair.
The topic of narcissism is likely so often charged, because most narcissists not only deny that they have a problem, they adamantly refuse to be assessed or to go for treatment. Instead, they continue to gaslight, manipulate, cheat, deceive, criticize…to the point where their target is so mentally stressed…that THEY are in therapy…while the narcissist just keeps insisting that it is him/her self…who is the victim. If we saw narcissists more willingly going to therapy and actually working on their mental dysregulation …we would be much more sympathetic to whatever their childhood trauma was, which caused their impossible to tolerate behaviour. Therapists will actually tell you leave the narcissist, rather than stay and be ‘tolerant’…because the targets of the emotionally dysregulated person, are ALSO much more prone to committing suicide, due to the ongoing emotional abuse and often entrapment, when the narcissist actually threatens you…should you decide to leave. That’s dangerous, and sympathy is not the answer.
I’ve never once advised people to have sympathy for someone who is hurting them, or actually for anyone else for that matter. I advise that people set and maintain adaptive boundaries, work on effective communication, seek the help and support of licensed therapists, and consume information that is accurate and moderate. I also encourage people to extend empathy and respect toward others. I also think that we as a society need to have compassion toward those with mental illness. Also, this channel is called “Heal NPD.” My subscribers are mostly people who identify as having pathological narcissism, NPD, or associated traits; or people who have loved ones with this disorder. A large number of people find my perspective helpful and healing. I take it that you don’t, and that’s fine. Thanks for watching and for sharing your perspective.
Do you consider comments that simply express a different opinion "abusive"? By looking at the comment section it looks that way because every single comment is praising your channel and there is not a single disagreement on any aspect of your perspective whatsoever. It's impossible to have a unanimous agreement on any controversial topic unless every single comment that expresses a different opinion is removed. I also find it hard to believe that everyone who disagrees with you expressed their opinion in an abusive way, so if the only type of comments that are left here are praising your channel, this tells me that you are not confident in your ability to present good arguments and, therefore, you want to shut down any potentially constructive and interesting discussion. Wonder how long my comment will remain in the comment section and when it will be removed as "abusive".
@marinaton - All you needed to do was look at any of my other videos to see many comments that disagree with my perspectives. If you want to see me getting piled on for unpopular opinions, by all means check out either of my two most viewed videos. Unsurprisingly, some of the people who disagree with the humanizing perspectives I provide on my channel also struggle to express those disagreements in a civil and non-abusive manner (which is ironic, given that many of them watch content on narcissism because they consider themselves to have been abused). As my channel has grown, it has attracted the attention of a number of such individuals. I am perfectly comfortable with civil debate and disagreement, but this is a mental health channel, and I can’t in good conscience allow people to abuse others. I wonder what you thought about the actual video?
@@healnpd I am quite familiar with being piled on for unpopular opinions, which I expressed all the time in professional circles (I am also a therapist) and in other settings. I stopped expressing myself publicly because the opinions I hold and have expressed are unpopular to the extent that putting them out there would literally cost me a job. They go far beyond just having a different take on a certain disorder. I have a different take on the entire profession that you and I belong to, and it's not charitable to put it mildly. By the way, your take on npd is only unpopular within the lay public discourse. In classic psychoanalysis no particular diagnosis is demonized because that school of thought is rooted in emotional detachment. As far as the video goes, it's funny that your thoughts about social anxiety as one of the underlying dynamics of NPD doesn't fit what I know about NPD, which means that you and I are probably defining NPD differently. In my experience a genuine NPD is not anxious at all about how others perceive them, and if they are anxious about it they are not NPD. They get enraged when challenged in any way, so criticism of any kind, even the slightest, brings them unbearable pain, but they don't get anxious. Anxiety implies that one is imperfect and fallable and may screw up sometimes, but a genuine narcissist never believes for a second that they are imperfect, fallable and may screw up once. At the same time, there are plenty of people who experience high levels of social anxiety who aren't narcissistic at all, quite the opposite. I also think that narcissistic traits are not the same as genuine NPD but those are confused all the time. In our day and age I'd argue most people carry some narcissistic traits because narcissistic behavior gets rewarded in our culture, unfortunately. But those traits and a classic NPD profile are two completely different animals. So, back to the video, I don't believe social anxiety is present as a big dynamic in NPD at all. It contradicts my clinical and personal experience, as well as my research.
Carrie is such a bad example
You may be right. I used it because in that scene Carrie is way out on a limb. Her desperation to be well-received blinds her and sets her up for the fall that’s to come. She wants to be liked so badly that she can’t sense how ungrounded she actually is. PwNPD are often unaware of how others perceive them. Like Carrie in this scene, they are blinded by their own strivings, wrapped up in an idealized moment.
I don’t think comments that disagrees with your logic should be deleted that would be sheltering abusers such as the narcissist its not helping them by shielding them from the world ….All i see is positive comments though it seems nice it isn’t practical
I don’t delete comments that disagree, only ones that violate the channel’s community standards. Comments that abuse me or others are removed - sometimes by KZhead itself before I even see them. I am happy to engage with commenters who disagree in good faith. Check out some of my more popular videos and you’ll see a ton of disagreement.
can you relate to all this but be too self aware to be a narcissist? what do you call that and how do you get help for it?
I don’t think self-awareness excludes someone from pathological narcissism. It certainly can help mitigate the more destructive behaviors and interpersonal patterns, but the internal issues will still be present until the self is healed. The best approach is to seek therapy from a licensed provider. I made a video about that: kzhead.info/sun/jbuEnpqmaWWOaas/bejne.html
YES TRUE EXPOSURE IS KEY BUT I MUST SAY DIAZAPAM HELPS AND EVEN THEN I'M SUPER ANXIOUS GOING INTO AA MEETINGS, SOME ARE FRIENDLY BUT I FOUND SOME IN MY AREA ARE NOT FRIENDLY ESPECIALLY NOW I'M NOT A SEX OBJECT ANYMORE!
Stop screaming 😂