Reducing Social Anxiety for the Scapegoat Survivor of Narcissistic Abuse
Today, let's look at how the narcissistic parent can envy and attack the scapegoat child. Discover how the enabler parent's emotional unavailability makes this possible, and how the beliefs the scapegoat survivor adopts to survive can create social anxiety today.
Watch until the end because I will offer a tactic you can use today to reframe and challenge this social anxiety. This can help you establish new safe social connections a lot easier.
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Word of advice. If you need to heal from narcissistic abuse, don't see a therapist about it unless they are specifically a narcissistic abuse recovery therapist specialist. You will be re-traumatized if you see a general therapist. If you are suffering from a mental illness and see a specialist who specializes in treatment of Depression, Bipolar Disorder, OCD, or Borderline Personality Disorder, etc, they will make you feel like sh*t for talking about your family and blame you for all your mood dysregulated behaviors and try to medicate you and when you say you are suffering from a mental illness because of your narcissistic family your therapist will yell at you and tell you to leave them alone after they abused you for decades with no consequences. So just don't. Don't seek generic run of the mill basic treatment for depression, bipolar, or borderline when you are being subjected to abusive narcissistic family members or significant other. You will be further injured and your healing will be delayed until you can see a Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Therapist Specialist ONLY. PLEASE. Learn from my grave errors 😔 🙏.
30 yrs ago - most of the therapists were like you describe. Thank you for your words of caution - this is a very important point.
I have a few very good self help books about anxiety, and the M.D. family doctor who wrote them suffered from anxiety herself, and she had similar words of caution. Others have been known to be quacky and unhelpful, like how Freud seemed to make everything about sex. I hope that more therapists buy Jay’s books and courses for therapists, so that fewer patients have these horrible experiences.
Couldn’t agree more, generic therapists will always invalidate your experience
YUP!!! I remember during my freshman year of highschool I got placed in a mental hospital since i told a counselor I was feeling severely sew of side ull. My Nmom came in the office with me (this was BEFORE i discovered she was a Narc and had been mentally abusing me all my life) the counselor said something to me, I shook my head then she goes "Use your words" I remember feeling so low because TUH i have ANXIETY lady!!! And im scared to talk around my mom! Then when I got to the hospital a lady asked if I talked to my mom about my problems. I said 'No.' She then goes 'No one is gonna have your back like your mom. I wanted SO desperately to scream 'MY MOM IS THE PROBLEM!!!!!' but again, I didn't even realize I was being narc abused. Just that something about her wasn't right. 'Therapists' are NOT qualified at all. Not even the therapist I saw understood wtf was happening
@@Jess-yp9fo I know this problem from own experience. Especially when the narcissist is your mother. It's always expected the mother wants only the best for their children. Honour your mother. And it's also very hard to understand it yourself, that this person is not benevolent. I have a psychiatrist. He gets that my mother manipulates. I told him that I do therapy through KZhead videos. And asked him if this is maybe not a good idea. He said some people can do that. This doctor doesn't know the narcissist topic well. He is just a person who understands human behavior generell. He advised me to avoid contact. Being misunderstood by people you expect to help is very bad. I agree that only therapists who know what narcissists do and how they treat their supplies can possibly help.
Typical qualities of a scapegoated child: "...naturally independent, honest and fair." "... sense of decency, goodwill and honesty." Narcissists may also target a child with these qualities: "...articulate, earnest, kind-hearted, and self-possessed."
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Yes and they envy those qualities so they will attack the independent person, sooner or later.
Can't wait to uncover them
Or, in the narcissist parent's words: "Wilful, proud, and disrespectful. Won't do as they're told." "Talks back; lazy, expects handouts." And a favourite of my mother's: "Manipulative, knows how to push people's buttons and get what she wants." I suspect now this was her own repressed passion speaking. She wished she had the same kind of power over her husband as "Daddy's little princess" did, but her Christian beliefs took away her sexual confidence and her will to challenge her husband. So I became the miniature Jezebel in her eyes. This sort of sexualisation at an early age, with the mother perceiving her daughter as a competitor for male attention (even as a small child), set me up for covert incest by my father and abusive relationships later in life. All virtual, though, because I was far too socially anxious by that point to ever approach boys in meatspace. All according to the design of the parents, I suspect. To keep the offspring childlike and dependent forever, one must isolate them from all sexual experience. Too bad I had the Internet! Of course, my mother expected me to somehow square the circle and find a rich husband after 18, too ... By 21, she had given up on me. She told me she had persuaded my father to pay for an expensive 21st birthday party on the grounds that he would never have to pay for a wedding or a baby shower. (The idea of me making my own money and paying for such things myself was apparently never considered.) I suppose, in her mind, failing to find any boyfriends in high school meant I was doomed to spinsterhood ... or that's secretly what she wanted. I don't remember exactly when I flipped from golden child to scapegoat, but it was clearly established well before I came of age. Catholics are truly insane. I wish I could live forever solely to see the day (probably centuries in the future) when the church finally collapses under its own corruption. It will happen. Just not soon enough to save all the future victims of religious and priestly abuse. Godspeed to them. I'm now 31, and I still haven't reached the stage where I'm comfortable dating, or even trying to make friends, but I'm getting there. Uncovering the keys to self-knowledge one at a time and putting the pieces back together. Like a lot of victims of narcissistic abuse, I have therapy trauma from shitty shrinks who blamed me and made it worse, which makes me all the more grateful for practitioners like Jay sharing their knowledge on KZhead for free. They saved my life.
@@2012jordieI'm so sorry you went through all of that, you're so damned strong to have survived it and to still be here. I hope your recovery journey goes smoothly and that you find the happiness and love you always deserved, both from within yourself and out there in meatspace.
Often, the enabling parent can overly criticize the scapegoat child to try to make them more acceptable to the narcissistic parent. This only serves to make the child feel even more 'wrong'.
Ooh, good one.
This video gives me insight and helps me stop being hard on myself for not having more friends. It gives me hope that maybe it's not too late for me, (scapegoat of my family for several decades right up till now) to create healthy relationships beyond my relationship with my kind, helpful therapist. Thank you, Jay! May everyone reading this find mutually respectful, enjoyable friendships.
It's never too late to be happy, I am always inspired by people who found a new hobby or whatever later in life and didn't allow societal labels and expectations control them. I love the nickname btw ❤
Let’s keep in mind that with friends, like much else, quality is more important than quantity.
I wish you the best I'm realizing my mother made everyone the scape goat around her but the family as a whole made me the scapegoat. It's so wild how hostile she was. But always covered it up to be just below the surface. I am now focusing on the feelings of 'unbelief' in myself and the patient needing me to be devalued.
One parent was a an extremely emotionally abusive narc the other was violent, both were sadistic . I was very shy as a child and I used art and dance to get out of that . They both came down on me like a ton of bricks when I got good at my design work and dance . They each took one of my talents and suppressed them
They are jealous of our happiness and will try to rob us of it or destroy it. They are dead inside and want the same for us.
A kindergarten-level scapegoat's default setting is to put other's needs ahead of their own despite the consequences. An elementary school scapegoat knows their narcissistic parent's assessment of them is off. The scapegoat cannot turn this around despite their best efforts. The enabler parent and siblings back away from the scapegoat. The narcissistic parent's devaluation of the scapegoat is relentless. By middle and high school, the scapegoat begins to self-sabotage. The self-sabotage is effectively the scapegoat's compliance with the narcissistic parent's narrative that the scapegoat is "bad." The scapegoat inevitably finds a narcissistic partner who will devalue and reject them just as their narcissistic family of origin did. By the time the scapegoat has moved on from their narcissistic family of origin and narcissistic partner, they have experienced a lifetime of devaluation and rejection. The scapegoat will feel social anxiety even when they rationally know that safe people exist. The scapegoat has most likely been isolated as a result of having a narcissistic partner and will have to "put themselves out there." Over time, the social anxiety will lessen when the scapegoat is in the company of a safe person. Anxiety that does not dissipate over time may be a red flag that a scapegoat is in the company of another narcissist.
@wendyapfeldorf2120 👏🏻👏🏻 that’s it.. But we know ‘safe people exist’ but very often they back away just like the siblings. I am always pursued by narcissistic friends and partners.. it’s so hard to keep saying no when you’re so lonely and keep hearing the advice that safe people are out there. However it’s absolutely not safe until the scapegoat heals. The love bombing, the discard is terrible for the scapegoats recovery.
Yeah, If I feel strong anxiety around someone I know it's red flag. Even having social anxiety, I calm down when I know I am safe. The anxiety is there before conversation, but disappears later. A few times I felt bad around someone and told myself: it's just anxiety, but it was my body telling me to run.
@kobra4422 Your last line.. exactly!!
I think that the social anxiety can persist in some of us even when we are around relatively safe others, because some of us were isolated so much that we didn’t get enough practice being around them, and so it feels awkward.
I hear you. It’s unfair that many of us can become like a magnet for the toxic types. I had such a so called friend back in middle school, and the adults like my parents and the vice principal and some teachers kept telling me what a bad influence she was on me. Schoolmates kept rubbing it in my face that she was just using me, and they were right, and I didn’t see that until they did…but did any of them offer me their friendship or at least set me up with anyone who was a true friend? No way! They were also telling me this repeatedly to devalue anything I had or liked, for example if I wore a t shirt of a popular band, then suddenly, so many, who used to wear them, shouted at me that that band sucked. The kids who weren’t a bad influence wanted nothing to do with me. I figured the goody goody kids were boring anyway, and that my frenemy was fun and pretty and I looked up to her . I also felt like having a fair weather friend was a much welcome break from the constant loneliness of having no human friends whatsoever. As an adult, I’ve tried to notice those who have their act together, but they are already so surrounded by a posse of friends that they don’t need my friendship. So, they’re too busy enjoying their lives and very full social lives to feel like reaching out to me.
Violet’s mother knew exactly what her husband was doing to their daughter. As someone pointed out to me recently, I was “bait” for my enabling father. He used me so my mother would leave him alone. I typically don’t cry when I watch Jay’s videos, but I became overwhelmed as he masterfully recounted the therapy session with Violet. The moment she learned her father emotionally abused her because he was envious of her must have been profound and unreal. I remember my own moment when I learned this same devastating truth.
Yes, it is so devastating when both side against the scapegoat
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I cried too. Sorry you had to go through this nightmare too.
@@denisedevoto5703 😥 Likewise, Denise. The beautiful part is some of us learn the truth and escape the closed system. I went no contact three years ago. It took a couple years but I’m back to being myself. The I was before I allowed my family to have complete control of me after university. I want the same for you, no contact. It’s the best cure for healing
@@taniabluebell3099 I have been no contact for 5 years. It took me until my second divorce and huge family betrayals to do it. I am now writing a book about narcissistic abuse and the links to chronic illness.
I am always confused when in these videos it is suggested that only one parent is hostile. For some people, both parents are hostile.
Yes - my experience.
How uncanny! I literally called in sick to work today because I was so full of dread and my social anxiety was so unbearable.
I hope you’ll be able to recover as soon as possible, especially when it affects your livelihood. As a young adult, I worked as a cocktail waitress and drink hostess. I don’t know how I managed to fake being a social butterfly at work, but as soon as my shift ended, I just wanted to eat, shower and vedge out, then eventually do some weightlifting and go to bed. What an act for an introvert.
wow i didnt know anyone else did that.... thats why i drop every job after only a few days i obviously need a lot of healing... or i get myself fired by creating drama lol...only did that one time now... usually im the quiet type...but occasionally i explode apparently lol
@@missfeliss3628 yep i explode from all the ttimes i had to smile and say yes when really i wanted to assert myself and say no. So i occasionally explode, i also always used to drop jobs from social anxiety too and would only work a few weeks as a temp for the Christmas period. Push yourself to work longer, especially if its somewhere where the environment feels safe or friendly. It helps my development because i finding myself in new situations that i have to deal with and i treat it like a simulation. lol
Young children are not "thinking" about anything that happens to them. They are not analyzing what it means. They are just living it and accepting it as how relationships are. There isn't a relationship in fact. They are an object, not a person. It is like being a feral child, raised in the forest, away from people. The outcome for someone raised like this is confusion, lack of a skill stack with which to process the world and to find a place in it. They simply walk through life alone and in a fog, a void as they did as a child. They are the perfect targets for continued indifference and abuse. They have no expectations of mattering. They don't know what that looks like, feels like. They are intimately familiar with indifference.
You perfectly describe how I felt as a young adult. I knew something was wrong, but I didn't know what. It just felt like a something heavy but undefined sat on my chest. I like in this wweight to a "nuclear fog". I didn't know what it was but it was definitely there. I did not know how to make decisions, and I had no real goals. I'm naturally funny and personable so I did have friends, but I needed to be the life of the party to feel like I belonged. I was involved with one narcissist after another. It was only after the breakup of my marriage did I started to put the pieces of any of this together.
@@G2thesecondpower It takes a lot of work. You will start remembering things that happened to you that should not have happened. You will begin to realize important things that should have happened but didn't. In some ways it is the things that didn't happen that were most damaging. We lacked templates and scaffolding for very basic life skills.
@@nancybartley4610 "We lack the templates for basic life skills". Yes. I dropped out of high school at 16 and ran away from home. I had no life skills. I like to joke that I graduated from the school of hard knocks where I majored in Punk Rock with a minor in Poor Life Decisions. I was marginally housed and marginally employed for most of my adult life. I with legitimately homeless in my twenties twice. I was gullible and trusting to people that did not deserve it. It's amazing that I was never trafficked. I did have enough sense of self-preservation that I never got into got into serious drugs - so that probably saved me from a far worse fate. I could just never understand why I didn't know how to "do life" like other people. The irony is that both my parents come from upper middle class highly educated families - though both of them we're highly irresponsible with money.
It’s always assumed we need to trust more rather than less. I was always trying to change my ‘distrust’ But the belief I really needed to change was - ‘despite all evidence to the contrary these people wish me well’ I kept clinging to the hope that the ill-will I felt wasn’t real.
In my experience, I came into the world trusting, and it took me a long time to realize that there are those that abuse someone’s trust. I guess toxic people can see that as a weakness. This betrayal of trust is heartbreaking, until it happens over and over again, and one can come to expect it, but the sting still doesn’t go away. These injustices are a very bitter pill to swallow. I wonder if your distrust that you felt the need to change was just your instincts trying to tell you that something was wrong, but you may have felt the need to go along to get along, and distrust, or any healthy skepticism had no place in that dynamic. I apologize if I’m off base in that. I also kept clinging to the same hope that the I’ll- will wasn’t real, because it was just too unbearable.
I was the same. I could feel the ill will and very strong bad energy but I kept denying it. I was trained to not trust myself and my gut instinct. So I hung out with people who despised me until I was almost 60. Now I know for sure that there are people who you can’t trust. Today I saw some red flags in someone. I’m going to be more wary of him now. That means I’m making progress anyway.
Congratulations on your progress. I’ve been learning these things kinda later in life too, but better late than never. We’re not too old to learn and get insights into our past and how it’s affected our current lives. Who wants to be in their deathbeds still ruminating on “WHY???” about our pasts and take that bewilderment to the grave? We’re getting answers, learning to make sense of what happened, and how to try to move past it in the hopes of living the rest of our lives better.
@christar9527 @diatribe5 I’ve just started reading “ in sheep’s clothing” by George Simon. He’s excellent and one of the very very very few voices that will validate the positive side of distrust. I’ve been arguing with my therapist for three months on the idea of people who behave badly being ‘wounded’ I don’t believe it! .. she takes the stand point ‘all people are good underneath it all’ but I take a totally different stand point, people become good or bad, goodness is not a personality, it’s a way of living life. Finally I’m getting validation of what I suspected to be true via this book. The world we live in, entitlement rather than ‘defense mechanisms covering up insecurity’ are far far far more common.
@diatribe5 To answer.. The point I was making is that this video and 99% of others I see, portrays victims of trauma as being overly distrustful. My point is that people who have been traumatised, should be encouraged to trust their feelings and not over-ride them. The only people I meet with exaggerated misplaced distrust are narcissists. Everyone else tends to have well founded distrust that if worked with, rather than set aside, can lead them to safe connection.
I find it difficult to find other safe people. Vindictive envy seems common.
Thank you so much for covering the topic. I've just hoped you'll talk about it. For years I've thought I am introvert, shy etc. But looking back, I didn't have basic social skills. I didn't exercise them, bc I felt I don't have what it takes to be accepted and liked. I was emotionally neglected, isolated and bullied. Only at 25 yo, I've realized I was left out bc I avoided talking to ppl first, waiting for them to "show me approval". One thought that you have as a naive, innocent child, trusting that "other know you better than you" can run your life.
My 72 year old narc mom still says that she knows me better than everyone. Yes, her PROJECTION of me. I went NC on January 1st 2023. Best decisoon ever. Wish you the best in your personal journey.
I’ve had similar experiences due to upbringing, but I know that I am an introvert, and shy too. The difference is that I don’t view these as shortcomings or character defects. In my early working years, my potential customers would come up and ask, “Why are you so shy?”, like they had a problem with that, but I replied, “Well, I just *am*. My shyness is a part of me, and if I accept it, why don’t you?” That being said, yes, shyness can hold me back. I use traditional gender roles as a way around that one, believing that if the man is interested, he will make the first move/overtures, and if that doesn’t happen, then I’m not his type. It happened that way with a man who seemed just as shy, awkward and quiet as me. He wanted me badly enough that he found a way to get me to notice him and then we had an affair. He ended up breaking my heart, but that happens to the most successful well-adjusted people. I know I’m introverted, not just from some psychological tests, but although I often feel lonely, I seem to thrive in my solitude. I can’t socialize too much for too long, especially close to bedtime, because my thoughts race and I’m too wired to sleep without a lot of pharmaceutical help to unwind.
@@diatribe5 "I can’t socialize too much for too long, especially close to bedtime, because my thoughts race and I’m too wired to sleep without a lot of pharmaceutical help to unwind." You put my situation in words - thank you! Keep thriving!
"other know you better than you" can run your life." So painful way to survive for a scapegoat. Thank you for putting the feelings in words.
Same...and im 35.
Videos which connect social anxiety and narcissistic abuse are very rare, yet social anxiety does stem from exposure to narcissistic abuse. Instead of this fact, society blames all targets of abuse for being weird, abnormal, lazy or deformed, something to be cured.
u mean something to be fixed .... cuz they are obviously inherently bad... cuz no parent would ever emotionally abuse their child... u only get a pass if ur physically abused
@@missfeliss3628 Yeah - and problem is we cannot force someone into clinic - unless they break the law. So narcissists keep infecting others while nobody is holding them accountable for the abuse. Narcissist Personality Disorder One of the few conditions where the patient is left alone and everyone else is treated. (PierceTheDarkness)
@@ranc1977so true.
@@ALT-vz3jn Yep. I am having a long discussion in you tube commentary about social anxiety and narcissistic abuse. There are people out there who believe that narcissistic abuse can be cured with entering into endless arguments with toxic people and that we can cure our anxiety by thinking happy thoughts. Anyone interested here is discussion: kzhead.info/sun/jZmvid6NoHqtgXk/bejne.htmlsi=7j1dKbPkhJBsGLQL
This channel has been instrumental in my healing process. Highly recommended!
Just what the world needed! A therapist that has been through narcissistic abuse that can pick it apart and expose it and most importantly help those that are suffering from what you call a “bad childhood.” Thank you so much for providing the remedies, too many people talk about the effects of narcissistic abuse without offering solutions. This is what we need. Expose it, then next step: HEAL
The Enabler parent can become EXTREMELY jealous of the Scapegoat child who embraces self love and walks away.
I never thought of this but I think this is what is happening now. I am moving away to a more affordable area and my enabler dad is acting like it's a crime. As if I'm leaving him with my verbally abusive narc mother with Alzheimers. Except he's a damn adult who happily left me alone with her crushing verbal abuse for years. And I was actually trapped and he could easily put her in a home because he's rolling in money.
@@amberinthemist7912 Stick to your decision to move. Moving changed my life for the better. However be prepared to emotionally detox.
Wow. I have never heard another person describes the dynamics between me and my parents so precisely. The only difference was that my mother was the narc. Just a few minutes into the video, I went to Amazon to buy your book. Thank you so much.
Jay, I really appreciate that you addressed social anxiety, especially for survivors of bad childhoods. This was so filled with insight and answers as to why many of us try to deal with it. I used to be an alcoholic, mainly for pain management, and when that health problem very eventually went away, I didn’t need to imbibe for that. The other trigger for my drinking problem was when I worked in corporate offices. It took me so long to realize that I felt like a square peg in a round hole, Office Space reference aside, but I felt the need to prove that I could be like the majority and have a “real “ job. But I was only kidding myself all those years and drank away the emotional stress of being out of my element in a stifling environment where I couldn’t feel free to express myself. My coworkers seemed like phonies too. Once I got fired from the last office job, I was able to cut my drinking way down to where I didn’t feel disgusted with myself for needing to get pickled too often for my own good. A serious illness happened much later that altered my brain chemistry so that I couldn’t drink even if I tried. I never even felt tempted anymore because I know how bad I felt soon after, even a few tiny sips. But drinking used to help me take the edge off of the social anxiety. Now, it’s either sedative medicine, or best yet, being in one on one situations with safe enough others. Or at least avoiding crowds. Crowds have always made me cranky, and I much prefer being a big fish in a small pond. So many of your points hit home, that I had to rewind and give them another listen. Like when you said something about how social anxiety being caused by expecting rejection and not deserving to matter to others, as a result of our upbringings. The part where you mentioned, “ If I seek love and acceptance, I will be rejected “ Feeling inconsequential to others And when things go well, I also wait for the other shoe to drop, because it feels too good to last, and successes aren’t very familiar to me. This stuff really helps get to the root of the pesky social anxiety thing, in the context of those of us who weren’t raised very well. I wanted to try to prove that I had something to offer, and because I love to laugh and to make others laugh - but not at my expense - I was the class clown in 5th grade and in an adult education job skills training class. In my teens, I was promiscuous because not only was the testosterone high and the urge was natural in youth, but also because that’s all I felt I had to earn boys’ acceptance. As an adult, I’ve been known to dress flashy and flamboyant because it’s how I gain positive attention, and I’m hooked on those compliments about my attire. I feel bummed when I go out turned out nicely and get no compliments. Some people say attention-seeking like it’s a bad thing, but they’re jealous and don’t get what it’s like to have started out with only negative attention.
I used to use my art and dance to get attention . .you need some positive attention . So I know what you mean . My parents used to abuse me over having these harmless hobbies (that they didn’t pay for ) .
This is so spot on about the enabler parent: that they might ask questions about school but don't have much to say once you've answered... that they seem to not quite get you, never seem to want to spend time with you. So you don't go to them for help. You think you don't deserve their attention.
I feel like that, I think my crime according to them is the fact I was born and am alive.
💜 the more we learn about all this, the less we take it personally… and realize these tragedies happen because of major psychological frailties that humans have… and especially in cultures that are hierarchical … so many people see things as one up/one down, games of win/lose not the games (patterns and experiences) of love which is win/win. Understanding psychologically *and* accepting (after healthy grieving) all this in spirit/body frees us from the thorny thickets 🌼🐐🌙 humans are very tribal and understanding our tribe of origin was really an anti-tribe… it at least frees us from further abuse/vulnerabilities, ability to process what has happened and move, build forward 🌊⛵️🌊💙
@@juneelle370 Thank you for your reply my love, very well put and thought out. I have researched quite intensely for about 10 years now since discovering about it all. I had ASPD and NPD to deal with for 'parents.' My feelings are also to do with society and people I have to be around even though I am in seclusion. Some people I don't grieve as much over anymore. After a barrage of crap for all my life from many that were close to me, partners, 'friends' etc as my programming drew me to these types and I went no contact with all. Losing my daughter to that condition and also my grandchildren is the hardest. Even in seclusion there are neighbours I cannot get away from who delight in torture and abuse. I've never been without it around me although I think I'm slowly getting away and at least have walls dividing now insetad of being inside the same place. It's the only positive I have out of being 'near' them. I am getting old now, I have not slept properly in over 20 years, it gets a bit much! I can't help but take it personally at times due to the extreme amount I've had to deal with and still do yet I know that if it was not me, they'd do it to other's and do. My crime according to them is that I exist and that is a fact as far as I'm concerned. I wish you many blessings, it's good to know there are mature and caring people like yourself that take the time 🤍 I don't need a response, you did great the first time, just unburdening my soul a bit. All the best and God bless +
@@Jeweli. God Bless ~ Big Hug 💙
@@juneelle370 Thank you ((Hugs back))
Rule 1: never outshine the master. :-/
!!!Yes!!! When I read that book, a major lifting of veils! It’s all about hierarchy 🔺 vs healthy tribal ⭕️ whether “family” or “culture” or “government”
What is the book title, please?
@@diatribe5 48 laws of power. David Greene
@@diatribe5 48 Laws of Power~they have great synopses for free here on yt too! Very 👀 opening. Robert Greene says he wrote it to help the naive and when it’s used in this way, it’s good… some of his readers use it as a guidebook though :( the book is banned in a lot of prisons bc of this… it really shows how hierarchical human systems work, large and small… the many manipulative ways that some people pick up, games of ego and power
whoops didn’t see Kiwi had responded:)
I really like when you articulated, and I quote, "The survivor learns I don't matter to the people that matter to me". Thanks Dr Jay. From scapegoat to black stallion. #scapegoatnomore
Sir this channel is severely goated. Where was this when I first started healing 😭 everything feels as though you lived my life with me… sometimes I wonder if I’m over exaggerating but nope, the abuse really was that severe
Omg this is just another blow! So shame and fear of rejection were a strategy to keep me isolated and stuck! This makes so much sense, but oh I wish I knew this 40 years ago! 😢
It's taken me a long time to get to this point of feeling safe enough to connect with people authentically but I'm in the process of dipping my toes in the water - so to speak - and this advice was very timely as I have some group social things coming up that I am anxious about but also looking forward to overall. :)
You look pretty and you speak well. If that is any indication, you have little to be anxious about outside of the programming you received by those who have everything to be self conscience and anxious about. Remove that load that they put upon your shoulders and go make the most of your upcoming social events, because F them.
I have lost track how many times I have shouted “Yes!” toward this video. Sorry I am such a noisy subscriber. I reduced my anxiety a few weeks ago with wonderful results. Living alone in the country in my mid- seventies presents many stressors for one with ptsd and cptsd. So I went to the nearest police station, my heart pounding, so afraid they would humiliate me somehow, that I would be dismissed as wasting their time. Instead, when I explained my situation, they revealed that many of their officers had ptsd and they understood that constant feeling of fear. They assured me that they were only a phone call away, that their department never sleeps, and I left feeling not only reassured, but also rather proud of myself that I had taken responsible care of my needs.
I would say that the parent who doesn't like emotional interaction and wants solitude IS at fault, because they never should have had children to begin with. Of course, neither should the narcissist.
Thank you so much for this video and your channel entirely. I'm from Nigeria and your videos have been instrumental to my healing journey. I also think that something else a scapegoat could have a hard time with alongside social anxiety is accepting that even though the scapegoat may not have many friends and may try to develop healthy relationships, scapegoat can't be everyone's cup of tea (they won't be liked by everyone). Sometimes, it's hard to accept.
My mother totally hated my honesty and other qualities, especially about some situations that she chose to see differently. That's when the demeaning occurred like I was defective for being so honest or different than her. Thank you for sharing this information. I never understood why she was this way until discovering education about narcarcistic persons and the poison they spread in their family and friend circle. Truly destructive personality disorder while often appearing as an angel to the outside world 😢
Thank you Jay, utterly articulate. Part of the recovery process, i know, but at this moment i am keenly reminded how heartbreaking & humiliating childhood was. I'm glad i'm old. I can't say the social anxiety was removed, i learned to override it. Borrowed the esteem for me of loving friends. I perpetually feel like i'm walking to my execution
Thank you so much for your videos Jay, they have been so helpful :D Thank you for helping me to understand my Narcissistic Parents and sisters and learn how to heal from the abuse I had suffered at their hands as a child. Now I am on the road to recovery and have cut out all the narcissistic family members as I was the scapegoat and I know that I cannot have any contact with them. :D
My goodness! Yet another A+++ video from Jay. I actually wanted to applaud after listening to it. I look forward to listening to this several times, taking notes, and applying this to my life. Thank you, Jay-as always.
Well said that defying the rules of the narcissistic family is like doing away with this long ago needed connection. This is what we need to do to finally be free.
💜 and also the book is so incredibly good and wonderful and like your videos, deep and well communicated ~ thank you 🌿 it’s so nice how the contents are laid out too and even the little extra spacing adds to it feeling relaxing to read
Your interpretations are always useful. I am excited to see what’s in your book! ❤
Thank you, Jay!! This one is especially helpful for me. I so appreciate the excellent online help you provide. Your content is always well written and very insightful.
I have a 'friend' who crossed my boundary. Recently I called him out for labeling me over a minor thing (I changed my mind by ordering cappuccino instead of mint tea). He laughed saying "you're fickle, first you went from wanting to order baked eggs to panini Now from mint tea to cappuccino." I felt a stab in my heart and my first emotion was to walk out of that restaurant. Then I said: I don't like how you talk to me, you're labeling me and it's pretty common to reason from the menu what to order. I knew what I wanted, I just decided to choose panini because it would be easier to eat on a windy terrace ( defending myself to him I was judt being normal). I wanted to tell him but kept to myself: 'Now you're judging me, maybe it's your trait of not being flexible and paying to much attention to me." He was a bit shocked from my reaction and said "you're right, I was judging and I felt uncomfortable when you confronted me but I was wrong". My feelings said that I wanted to go home and i felt down and empty. I am not a psychologist to say who is a narcissist. I told him maybe it was also my trigger because I was surrounded by controlling people so it' hurts extra. I felt uncomfortable for confronting him that I felt hurt. I even said sorry for maybe reacting to much. I always start to downplay my own boundary. It wasn't the first time he said something like this and I don't know what to think of it but I'm not going to be someone's tooll for projection anymore. I gave this friendship benefit of doubt because 'he is not an evil person' but if I'm honest I have had enough of this. He has a loud agressive voice when talking, as if he's worried nobody will listen (or maybe his ears are bad, not sure) and he compares everything I share with an ex or his mother. In the car I felt uncomfortable because he didn't keep anough distance from the cars ahead of us. I don't know when someone is a narcissist he accepted my reaction setting boundary but it didn't help because apparently he judged me for being my spontaneous self. I never told him "you are loud" because I let him be. I deserve the same room to be me in return. I know in every connection there can be things to learn from but I guess, if it keeps happening and I don't feel myself it's time to keep my distance. I have met more dangerous types before so therefore it feels decent because he doesn't have an agenda but I feel dominant, controlling impatient behavior. He doesn't seem like a narcissist because he is honest about insecurities. The question is perhaps is it taking more energy than it adds. Just because I have traumatic experiences, doesn't mean that every time I feel hurt or disrespected is my own trigger. I always seem to take at least 50 % of the blame just to show that I'm mature and not getting hurt more. I do talk to a coach now and then and I will tell her about this occurance. She told me 'it may sound weird but just try to look at the connection as a practise for setting boundaries and it's ok to take care of yourself instead of going along just to protect his comfort.
This is such a perfect example of the way we give others the benefit of the doubt and look to blame ourselves when someone does something we don't like. Thank you for sharing.
This happened to me and it immediately felt like a betrayal. It doesn't matter it was a criticism given in a throw -away manner. It hurt, it was cruel and stupid and no matter how much I smoothed it over it never went away. The dynamic was ruined so everything after that was essentially just pretending.
@@deborah1295 Yes and honestly, I believe that mostly we intuitively feel someone's vibes dominance and their unpleasant remarks and that's why we start to say sorry in their place. Especially when there is a silence right after we speak up. When I returned home I felt a clear, healthy anger and healing pain in me. Maybe because I felt my final comformation that this person is another form of the same bs. Emotions like anger are there to protect us. Sending a message that it's not good for our wellbeing. There are just so many of these types of people. I love life so much, the general norm seems to be that we have to work for any relations because we all have our flaws but that's creating more selfdoubt since we should enjoy eachother's company. Controlling people can't enjoy or relax sonit seems so they are constantly watching and observing on micro level. It's a simple word: respect. He was unfriendly and he also joked that I have an old people's phone ( bc of bigger lettertype apparently) but he is older than me so I replied that he made an old man's joke ( but I felt bad for saying that bc it's interaction on a stupid strife level that I don't like). I told the coach:I don't want this behavior in my life anymore. There is a difference between positively teasing and insulting/belittling people. Just because someone has seemingly sincere sides (or doesn't kill me lol) it doesn't make up for the bad sides and keep them in my life. Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it 🤗
@Peace of mind of peace I think it was the gleam in their eye while they did it, that was the kicker. Like I was an easy hit, a quick laugh guaranteed. I mean, come on, everybody's doing it. I'm still hurt now!!
@@lennie1703 oof. I feel this. The gleam in their eye like you're an easy hit - I know that one...
Unfortunately it’s not just a ‘belief’ - it’s very often a reality and true now, as it was then. . We aren’t just left with beliefs, we’re actually left with ‘similar people’ that continue to inflict the same pain on us, it’s not just the ‘past talking’ it’s the past ‘fully repeating’. Believe me I’ve tested out the theory. Again and again I’ve ‘challenged my beliefs’ and acted as if they were not appropriate to my present-time situation - but I should have realised - I was actually in relationship once again with dangerous narcissistic people.
Yes… trouble when we don’t know when to rightly run
Yes, yes, yes. I’ve experienced that too!
I have had a life time of Narc relationships, thanks mum!
We need to learn to set boundaries to protect ourselves. We are trained to obey and put ourselves last, and we are easy prey due to that. No is a powerful word that keeps predators away.
Thank You Jay for putting out this video ... You basically described why I have Social Anxiety in 26:42.
Whenever I achieved or succeeded at anything made my parents feel uncomfortable and they felt that I was not in my proper place.
Always look forward to your uploads.
Thank you for this video. Would you be able to talk on being the scapegoat to 2 malignant narcissistic parents?
I’d like that too 🌼 I’m sorry for going on too much in my reply yesterday. These videos open up a lot and I need to better control/direct expressions
I do it too, but we’re here to get much needed validation from Jay’s videos and hopefully from each other and eventually to ourselves. Ideally, we can try to be supportive to one another, and I think your posts are just fine as they are…even though you were apologizing to someone else, but I felt like I just had to jump in there and give my opinion.
@@diatribe5 💖 ty
Fantastic video Jay, thank you!
This is SO enlightening...💡 I have severe social anxiety, and the way you explained these cases, and how it happens made so much sense! I didn't ever know where to start with healing. I've tried joining support groups before, but didn't know why I felt so awkward and quit. Now I will try again. Knowing WHY I felt that way will help me conquer it in the future. Thank you! 🙏🌷
Where were you 40 years ago? Thanks for your videos.
Thanks for the video. I was just reflecting on how after I participate in social events I can get an almost hysterical self attack episode as if my whole family unit is criticising, judging and condemning me because I participated in a social event in betrayal of my family unit where the only thing allowed was a sense of collective and personal emotional imprisonment… interesting to reflect on.
So amazingly explained!
Thank you for this extremely helpful and supportive message. I do appreciate it very much.
Thanks Jay. I force myself to watch your videos, as I know it's helping me heal. I say force, as it sucks to relate to being the scapegoat. But God is good and has protected me along my journey.
I only had one parent most of the time. I had a step-dad for a few years. They were both hostile most of the time and indifferent the rest of the time. Can one person play both roles?
Yes, yes, and yes.
Thank you.Thank you!!!Somebody told that aloud, what I thought.Finally!!!!Just it is so heavy to discover that confirmation when you are over 40.Broke up with someone that seemed to really love you, but moved one.I am financially fucked up, also emotionally , focused on my dog, trying t recover from cancer....going through insomnia time...looking forward for....holiday in Greece...?Cheers.
Thanks Jay, the audio in this video is wonderfully clear.
Jay, Can You Please Do A Video About How Scapegoats Also Become Workplace Scapegoats? It hurts so much (I just started a new job where once again, this is the case)…I dont know how to “fix” it. I guess I cant really fix their jealousy…but it’s super frustrating bc I feel I can never catch a break 😩🥴😮💨😵💫
I can’t believe how spot on these videos are. A big thank you!
Thank you for a very supportive message Jay 😊
Thank you for these videos Dr. Reid!!!!! They’re helping me a lot!!
Thank you for this! In particular, I appreciated the inclusion of the role and impact of the enabler parent. The example you present is very similar to my experience. I am still wrestling with how to process my mother's role as an enabler to my father and her emotional unavailability to me.
2:30 in and Oh God Damnit. Well there it is. Thank You Mr. Reid
This is so helpful 👍
Glad you think so!
thank you Jay I so needed a video on this topic (feeling so alone & unable to built connections)
Your channel is gold, super relevant information articulated well, bought your e-book, cheers!
It's all true. I was brainwashed to think I had no value. My role was mother's little helper and that's all I was good for. My breakthrough came at a self help group where they had a number of sayings. One of these was 'God doesn't make junk'. It made sense cutting through the mess in my brain. I wasn't junk. It was the first step.
Jay - thank you 🙏 I hope you can feel from there just how genuine and meaningful of a thanks that is.
I had a narcissist father with a passive mother. I had social anxiety all through school. I suffered from low self-esteem. A shaman helped me to come out if my shell and speak up for myself.
Life saving insight. Bless you Jay. This is the first time I have seen this concept anywhere and it’s just as you say. Thank you so much for your work ❤
Oh my gosh this man is a god send. I cant believe how concise and clear he is able to present this material. Wow.
Thank you for being on my side.
The indifference, the individuals who think they are more important than they actually are. Its evident to me.
absolutely haunted and distraught that my gramma is gone... she was so full of life, so youthful ..... she never ran out of energy... was so fun,.... and my mom poisoned me against her...slowly and subtly... and eventually i resented my gramma... she was weird and critical....but for some reason i felt so attached to her in my soul... the smell of her coffee ..... i was heartbroken when she left when i was 5... and nobody cared or took me seriously ... nobody comforted me.... everyone just ignored me and i felt i was even a little bad for saying i missed her and where did she go.... i remember i only said it like once before i got the message that nobody was going to recieve this from me... it was the terribly lonely sad feeling of giving up on something so precious, the only reason any of us continue to live; Love....
Thank You ! my mom was hyper negative critical towards me and slandered me (with her completely wrong and imagined views of who I was to her) to her friends strangers and siblings , ... my dad was opposite . He was low key and loved you and you felt that. He was not witness to her covert abuse . I feel he really did not get what she was doing . She was an expert at twisting your words to make you look like the bad one . Putting words into your mouth that you never said . Completely misunderstanding you and preferring her own falsehoods , and projections on to you , especially when it turned her into the victim of your attacks . Of course I defended my self from her misunderstanding me , and of course I got angry that she thought I was being bad when I was not .
I understand and relate to these similiar feelings. Not just parents, but other poeple too
brilliant--your way of describing these things appeals to me more than a lot of others i've watched. thank you 🙏🏻
Connection section sounds good to me.. 😊💫
Thank you!
Seeing and communicating the truth made me the 🎯😳
😊 Thanks Jay
Thanks
wow, very helpful...thanks so much....similar parental and my own experiences .
I can relate this video to certain people that I can feel really hate me
Thank you Dr. Jay for taking the time to discuss and explain these complex family dynamics and roles. I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind explaining what tribe gaslighting is. Thank you.
Thank you❤❤❤❤
Really good topic Jay
Thanks!
yes.... dad i could relate to easily... mom was hard to relate to...found her not totally present as a whole person u could connect with on any level... she barely talked and never held any normal conversation with me...never remember cuddling with her or even hugging her.... she felt more like a detached nanny ... only person i cuddled with was my gramma and my mom alsways out her down in my presence...
It took me so long to realize that people hated me because I existed.
my issue is...there is NO safe place. I have moved so many times over the past 6 years after what occurred, that my original group of friends has lost interest in me. I also see them as they are..selfish. I have no idea how to get all this back. My life. My career.
Is it common, after narcisistic abuse you get kinda with a wrong perception of reality, thinking everyone is there to get you?
Wow 😯 Thanks🌹
You're welcome 😊
I have yet to encounter a description of my Mom and Dad's dynamic so I'll share it here in case it can help others. My Dad is a narcissist and my Mom would not have fallen under the enabler descriptor but instead seemed to work at pacifying my dad and essentially protecting my sister (golden child) and me (scapegoat). Or would that have been a type of enabling? Anyway... she died suddenly when I was 8.5 and of course then there was no one to protect me bc even other family members saw my Dad a certain way and would very likely not have believed me. I remember realizing as a kid that it was pointless to talk to my maternal grandma about my struggles bc she would always remind me of how much he had to deal with by having to play both mom and dad roles after my mom's death. I had a pretty safe person in my Mom's best friend but unfortunately she sees my Dad the way he always presented himself in their social circle years ago and so I can't confide this in her either. But I'm so grateful for my therapist and great people like Jay and others and the online community those people create for us.
Could you talk about when the scapegoat emulates the narcissist or learns narcissistic behaviors from their narc parent?
I seem to be in survival as a small child and now and I'm 62 yrs young.and this man I've been with 23 years he just said about I just say month ago called me a scagoot and a few weeks in Feb said ur my FU KING ENEMY
I can't conclusively say my stepdad has this but I strongly relate to how he has been hostile to me from day zero, completely jealous of a 7 year old child. I was a very shy child too who never caused trouble. My attempts to try and win him over by being extra lovely and friendly were met with hysteria, nonsense arguments and verbal abuse. What an existence, to be so emotionally broken that a seven year old girl triggers you
And before even getting to the end of the video, Dr Reid just said that being nicer to that parent makes them more hostile!! I feel so heard!
I think it's VERY common for step parents to dislike their step children. They have no true emotional connection there. There should be a replacement families. It could be a movement.
Oofff - I had a vicious narc mother and a distant alcoholic father who said he never wanted kids. I was the scapegoat, and left home the month I turned 18 to escape the hostile environment. It took me decades to start scratching at all the repressed trauma. I just thought I was a chronically depressed and unhappy person , who suffered from really bad anxiety.
I thought I needed Prozac when I was a teenager and there were no therapists who knew any better. I saw at least three therapists I feel like there were probably more but I forget. None of them said anything about narcissism... I just eventually pieced it together. Understanding it or sticking a name to it hasn't helped though really.
I was routinely passed up for serious relationships and friendships. I was never a person for someone more than something I can do for them or inflate their ego somehow. It made me move away from people in a lot of ways. Im becoming dangerously emotionally unavailable for people and developing wants for meanspritited behaviors towards people who've harmed me and even people who have not. Which is why Im trying to find communities where I can be actually accepted so I don't fall deeper into this. Being at a toxic school wheeere the torture and the harm of me was commonplace and encouraged among students and faculty made me very angry
'Connection section'. 🤣🤣🤣👍👍👍
19:00 😮 breakthru
BOTH of my parents were narcs and the whole family is a narc cult 💔😔
Violets mom sounds like my mom. Both might be autistic. Common in software analysts. Autistic people care but don't always know how to show it. That might not explain the whole story but could be a factor.
Autism doesn't innoculate someone from narcissistic behaviors, though. Autism doesn't cause people to be cruel. Autistic people can apologize. My kids and I are autistic. My parents and ex-husband probably are--but they chose internalized ableism and cruelty instead of honesty, compassion, and empathy. Shame and self-hatred are a big part of narcissism, and people who were shamed for being different, can internalize that and pass it on.
Very well..cant see me working toward a goal in this fashion, not much going for me.