Decoding NPD: The Critical Role of Attachment
In this video, Dr. Ettensohn draws heavily on his own research concerning pathological narcissism and attachment patterns, using attachment theory as a lens to focus explanatory power onto the often confusing dynamics of NPD.
Beginning with a general overview of Bartholomew's four-prototype model of adult attachment, Dr. Ettensohn identifies the most common attachment patterns of individuals with NPD. He describes the relevant research on the development of these patterns and draws parallels with descriptions of early care deficits thought to cause pathological narcissism.
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Cited References:
Bartholomew, K. (1990). Avoidance of intimacy: An attachment perspective. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 7(2), 147-178.
Bartholomew. K., & Horowitz, L. M. (1991). Attachment styles among young adults: A test of a four-category model. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 61(2), 226-244.
Bennett, C. S. (2006). Attachment theory and research applied to the conceptualization and treatment of pathological narcissism. Clinical Social Work Journal, 34(1), 45-60.
Blatt, S. J., & Levy, K. N. (2003). Attachment theory, psychoanalysis, personality development, and psychopathology. Psychoanalytic Inquiry, 23, 104-152.
Bowlby, J. (1973). Attachment and loss: Volume 2: Separation. New York: Basic Books.
Connors, M. E. (1997). The renunciation of love: Dismissive attachment and its treatment. Psychoanalytic Psychology, 14, 475-493.
Dickinson, K. A., & Pincus, A. L. (2003). Interpersonal analysis of grandiose and vulnerable narcissism. Journal of Personality Disorders, 17(3), 188-207.
Ettensohn, M.D. (2011). The relational roots of narcissism: Exploring relationships between attachment style, acceptance by parents and peers, and measures of grandiose and vulnerable narcissism. (Doctoral dissertation). Retrieved from Dissertations and Theses: Full Text. (Publicaiton No. AAT 3515488).
Gabbard, G.O. (1989). Two subtypes of narcissistic personality disorder. Bulletin of the Menninger Clinic, 53, 527-532.
Holdren, M. (2004). Causal attributions among overt and covert narcissism subtypes for hypothetical, retrospective, and prospective events. (Doctoral dissertation). Retrieved from Dissertations & Theses: Full Text. (Publication No. AAT 3146467).
Kernberg, O. F. (1970). Factors in the psychoanalytic treatment of narcissistic personalities. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association, 18, 51-85.
Kobak, R. R., & Sceery, A. (1988). Attachment in late adolescence: Working models, affect regulation, and representations of self and others. Child Development, 59, 135-146.
Main, M., & Stadtman, J. (1981). Infant response to rejection of physical contact by the mother. Journal of the American Academy of child Psychiatry, 20, 292-307.
Otway, L.J., Vignoles, V.L. (2006). Narcissism and childhood recollections: A quantitative test of psychoanalytic predictions. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 32(1), 104-1116.
Pistole, C. M. (1995). Adult attachment style and narcissistic vulnerability. Psychoanalytic Psychology, 12(1), 115-126.
Scroufe, L. A., Waters, E. (1977). Heart rate as a convergent measure in clinical and developmental research. Merrill Palmer Quarterly, 23, 3-25.
Smolewska, K., & Dion, K. L. (2005). Narcissism and adult attachment: A multivariate approach. Self and Identity, 4, 59-68.
You are one of if not the best leading voice about narcissism online. Thank you so much for continuing to educate about what narcissism really is, and to help people realize that there is hope for people with npd to get better. You have helped so many people, including myself. Thank you again, Dr. Ettensohn.
Thanks for watching and for letting me know that you find this stuff helpful. 🙂
I'm 5 minutes in and had to pause because I realised this is actually really good stuff. Came here to say that. Good work!! Keep it up
@@healnpd Dr. Ettensohn, how does this and your insights help others communicate with a narcissist, especially those hurt by them? The only advice online is typically "Run" and "block". I tried empathy and altruistic levels of compassion. ultimately, I was blame shifted and blamed for his own issues. he blocked me instead because he refuses to connect with that truth, a truth he shared with me. I was able to see his humanity through all of the deeply negative behaviors, lack of empathy/compassion. the lies, the not following through etc. It seems like it was all pointless.
Your work is pioneering. I have NPD. This video - like so much of the content you put out - helps me to understand myself. I relate to it very much, and it has helped me support myself through my current collapse. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
You're very welcome. Thanks for letting me know, and I wish you well.
My mother likes to say that I was such a good child because I would simply sit quietly entertaining myself, I can tell you that I was not calm inside. I’m in the process of peeling off what’s left of my “armour” and it is terrifying! Your approach to this subject is perfect! Hopefull, factual, calming. Thank you!
My mom said she was lucky with us because we didn't cause her any trouble. She fed, clothed, got us off to school but never was interested in us.
I was served the same narrative. "you never made any trouble/were such a pleaseant child". I remember she also had taught me the "game of silence"… in retrospect, she groomed me into being non-problematic, non-expressive, always happy and fake so she would be okay, and also supportive and the 'genius' child. And she forgot about me, and overparented us to keep us safe from everything while i experienced traumatic events at school and in other situations. I had no chance to grow my own skills, nor to be self-interested. And now people tell me I should “quit being such a victim”.. life is cruel and ironic sometimes.
@@MrNoopNoop Fight to find out who you are and what you want. I didn't find out until it was too late for me. I do know if I had found this out in even my fifties, I would have fought for me. Nobody else will. If you still have years ahead of you, you can change your trajectory. I selfishly hope you do this so I can live vicariously.
@MrNoopNoop Ive been learning.to quit being such a victim for over ten years now. Its not a bad idea .
@@satsumamoon wow I never thought about that. I must be quite dumb
i think having researchers leave their ivory towers and educating the public is therapeutic on its own. it shows that people care. a big part of the trauma was the indifference of the world to the suffering of a helpless child. it’s sad that you need decades of research to basically find that being indifferent to the suffering of others creates ripples of sickness across society at large.
heal npd dropped, im geeking
This video on attachment theory makes so much sense to me. As a newborn, my mother's sister and husband, who were very loving people took me home from the hospital, with consent of my bio parents, hoping after almost eight moths, that they could raise me. My bio father insisted at 8 months I be returned. They consulted an attorney who said they could be charged with kidnapping if I was not returned on the day and at the time he wanted me home. I also had an exceptionally loving caregiver who kept me out of the house and took me places and spent loving time with me with books, etc. Although many awful situations occurred in my life, I was able to understand that I was lovable and my parents were not. However, other people were lovable, including relatives, friends and parents of friends. My siblings were much less fortunate. I witnessed terrible beatings and neglect from which I attempted to rescue them. The reason I have a hard time letting go of narcissists is because of what you are saying. I see who they are and know that if I understand them and help them they will be able to be in much less pain. A narcissist that I know realizes I understand him in ways that surprises them. After watching my lovable siblings go through their childhoods, and before I learned about narcissism, I thought that they might never be able to be happy and like themselves. The messages they received, other than through me, were very negative. I do not think like others, how could people be like this, I think why would they be any other way? I worked as a counselor at age 21 at a place called Connection in Ohio, located near my home. My sister kept telling me to work there. I was successful in relating to different types of teens with lots of issues. The person running this counseling program said he was going to be in school for his last semester of his graduate work and asked me to run the place until he returned and he would hire me when he returned. I did not feel competent to do this and told him so. I also supported myself and worked full-time days. I was working there evenings. I said there are other people with degrees here, why are you asking me. He said teens came back to talk to me or whomever was working, but the others had less success. He suggested wholeheartedly that I become a psychologist. I did go to college and was 5 hours from degree, but did not want to spend my life in helping people in desperate situations. I ended up going to PT school and worked in physical therapy for years. It is so difficult for me to reject anyone because I cannot judge anyone. My friend is going through a program to help him with some narcissistic traits and we have had some revealing conversations. I pray that he continues with this program. I experienced terrible abuse, but had people who immediately saved my life over and over and gave me lots of genuine love, time, care and concern. Interventions by neighbors, relatives, police and firefighters can make a difference. Thank you for this video. I love what you are doing. These people need compassion and someone who can help them reflect on their past pain and other therapy, I am sure. God bless you.
Please remember that genuine empathy and compassion for a narcissist, still should not enable their horrible behavior and continued abuse of others. Narcissists deserve to live in a world where seeking treatment does not get them shunned. However, you seem to be forgetting that an untreated narcissist is INHERENTLY abusive to at least one other person - that’s what makes them a narcissist in the first place. They have a target or multiple targets, with whom normal love and attachment is weaponized and becomes supply. Narcissists need to understand that they are not owed compliance or supply. The people around them are people with dreams and aspirations, which can be crushed by being treated as supply. They need to understand how most people function, so that they have a chance of feeling actual love and fulfillment instead of just supply. And they need to understand that if someone they treated as supply left them, that is deserved a thousand times over. Narcissists are human and deserve empathy - but their targets are also human and deserve empathy. They didn’t do anything to deserve the horrible fate of being treated as supply. And they don’t deserve to have the narcissists in their lives enabled and strengthened by someone whose job it is to cut the narcissist OFF of their supply.
Well said. Sadly, those suffering with NPD do not usually have the ability to introspect. They deserve empathy and at the same time, protecting ourselves from the consequences of their illness.
I’m pausing this over and over to take notes. Wow.
Sam vaknin explains better👍
@@paratrooper73I don’t think that’s so. He’s to intense, and a narcissist himself. He’s getting supply from his videos. I find him to be repulsive.
@@Lemoncare you find him repulsive because he is telling you the truth how that disorder really is and works and most do not want to see that. It's the same as hd Tudor. You will probably not like his voice, his tone, the way he thinks and live his life. Because it is sickening. But it's still the truth. We really have to open our eyes and accept how the disorder works. And not listening to that bunch of channels with false weakened information which won't bring you any further.
@@paratrooper73 Sam is not a truth teller, he’s a vicious narcissist looking for supply. He’s word salad, and drunkoften in his videos. I’m no fan.
It's really hard to try to introduce this stuff to those who need it most because of that armor and it breaks my heart
Thank you for your video. It helps. When your life has been confusing and depressing, you don't know who you are and you are told something is wrong with you, it helps to understand what happened so you can start to grieve and heal.
Grieving is the key to healing, I think. Thanks for watching. ❤️
I knew it! But nobody would believe me because I don't have letters after my name
I was empathetic for years... i gave lots of love and i received a destroyed life in return. It will only work when narcissists acknowledge they have a problem and really want to become better person... i shared your channel with my ex hoping ge would find some sense and i found out that he only uses this new knowledge to play more the victim and try to keep fooling me to do as he wants so that he can have whatever he wants... i would like to see a video on how to help people that need to live with narcisists making the narcissism aware of their destructive mechanisms and truly try to change... empathy is what they need to build... our empathy towarda them results in shattered lives and heartbreak
Brought tears to my eyes. All the assholes that I know and love. Everyone is a struggling child. This was beautiful thank you.
Without idealization, Doc. I was looking for copper but found gold. Your content is the best about narcissism. And it helped me a lot. Thank you.
You are very welcome
No he is not. Sam vaknin is.
@@paratrooper73 you cannot be serious. that guy is an absolute clown
@@crit_dmg this channel is a clown. Npd can not be healed.
@@paratrooper73Sam has brilliant insight into the internal landscape of NPD because he is one. He definitely helped me come to terms with the fact that I, in all likelihood, have NPD. His description of Shared Fantasy and the role of fantasy in general, blew my mind. I could not believe I was hearing someone describe such fine details on such an abstract concept. Especially when discussing the relationship with the snapshot, or the Eidolon is what I call it. It’s this phantasm of a person, like a mirage or transparent, ghost you can see and interact with, it follows you everywhere. This is the object that is idealized through fantasy. It’s only once the gap between the two versions of the partner becomes too wide and the disparity, too obvious, that the devaluation(of the partner) begins. That’s my own description but it aligns with Sam’s. I was in a relationship when I first heard Sam and it fucked me up. 😂 I’m sure it contributed to the deterioration of it, or sped up the process because I became aware so fast through Sam’s work, his book especially. I remember hating that book because every fucking sentence, every page made me stand up and walk away from it lol Sam used to irk me because he didn’t seem to pay a lot of attention to the literature but now he’s on point for the most part. He says some grandiose, wild things like coming up with a new diagnosis like Covert Borderline, when his description matches patients with NPD/BPD co-morbid, every detail he attributed to his new diagnosis I could read in a case study lol He’s not perfect. He’s not a scholar or anything; but he’s brilliant for someone who is self taught, like myself.
thank u for speaking about npd in a way that doesn’t demonize us ❤️ i feel like there’s absolutely 0 safe places for us in the mental health community but this channel makes me feel seen and understood & that means so much
Narcissism is truly so sad… it sounds like they just want to be loved and to love but don’t know how
That’s my current state of mind and I even want to give it…. And what’s crazy I don’t know how or I feel like I don’t ever have the potential to feel it let alone give it… You see there is good girls in my life, friends….. I don’t know where to run to find the gift of love and I try to give it but not feel
@@josho_reacts2.0 Matthew 11:28-29 🤍
@@melaniejane3116 thank you my brother/ sister 🙏✝️ I pray this verse does me well, and you may be blessed
Thank you for your research. I found your channel a couple weeks ago and I've watched every video. I'm a teenager/almost adult from a dysfunctional family and I easily fit the definition of a malignant narcissist. I want to be a better person. I'm glad that you're empathetic toward narcissists. Please keep making informative videos like this.
Will do. Thanks for watching.
Malignant narcissists don't have the self-awareness that they are narcissists that you display just by saying it. Narcissistic traits are naturally higher in all teenagers... I highly doubt you're in the disordered range. Is someone in your life calling you a narcissist? If so, it's much more likely they are projecting their own issues on to you because you are breaking away from dependence.
Thank you for the video. It always touches me how you manage to display such warmth and empathy towards narcissists who really are possibly the most deeply hurt and terrified people, except for psychopaths.
You bring REAL clarity to NPD. Thank you so much for your empathetic compassionate viewpoint.
You are so welcome
No he is not. Watch sam vaknin .
@@paratrooper73 hes trash
@@paratrooper73 I thought he gave some interesting insight but Dr. Ettensohn is a literal expert in psychology with a PHD (hence Dr.) and professional in this area. Sam Vaknin is a professor and his Ph.D. is in Physics. He puts a lot of his own opinion as fact. No thanks. much of his rants contradict each other and its not entirely scientifically based. Dr. Ettensohn's videos are some of the most comprehensive and clarifying content I've seen on the topic and I've been reading about it for a bit over 2 years.
@@perpetuaL524 two years? Two whole years?! Oh boy, that's just the start, no wonder you give this comment. Good luck!!!
I dont (think I) have npd, but after reading the ten millionth comment talking about how narcs should go to hell, i was annoyed enough by the constant ableism to look up some information. This was a good find.
amazing video thanks, i want to cry for everyone with npd that will never see it
I keep my tears for all.those they destroy.
What a great analysis, thank you Dr Ettensohn. Narcissistic collapse is the same as the dark night of the soul. Empathy is the same as compassion. Psychological and spiritual healing are one.
Am i forgivable I know im not real but i cant let go of the hurt I've caused
Am i forgivable I know im not real but i can't let go of the hurt ive caused
Im so sorry
so glad you're back i missed your videos!!!
:)
Thank you for the content and information you provide. It wasn't until I got into substance abuse recovery and intensive therapy that I've begun to unravel my childhood and narcissistic traits. I'm currently discussing the possibility of NPD with my therapist and psychiatrist while taking steps to analyze my behavioral patterns. Your videos have been a great resource in going through that process.
Finally.....empathy for those with NPD. Thank you for the insight and information shared here!
Easily some of the best explanation or mental health theory I have ever heard. A gifted communicator.
haven't watched the whole thing yet but man i love your content -pwNPD
❤️ Thanks for letting me know, and thanks for watching.
So much kindness love and empathy here it’s so refreshing … please continue to be a positive voice for those who need it the most …
Doctor Ettensohn, I am so grateful that you make this content. I was recently diagnosed npd and started digging the information. Firstly, I could barely find much in my native language (Russian), secondly, most info I get from English speaking resources is dehumanising people with NPD. Sometimes I have a feeling, experts talk about narcissistic as if we are vampires, not humans. I watched many of doc. R videos to understand the scale of the problem, but those videos left me desperate. As if I am broken and should go straight to the trash bin. You give so much hope and support! Thank you so much! I wish your channel has a million followers one day🤍 Sending you rays of gratefulness from Tbilisi
I apologise for my English
You probably should not try to heal from your condition if you live in Russia - you won't survive a minute without thick false self in that society. You can't allow to trust other people, they WILL take and advantage of you otherwise. You can change the shape of your false-self armour from narcissist to sociopath or schizoid (if you have money to isolate from others and take on hobbies...). You are already better than most in that society of sociopaths though. Remember than narcissist is more than sociopath, so as a master vampire you might get to control other zombies (sociopaths) to attack the world and bring "Mir" to it ;)
This brought tears to my eyes, especially your words at the end. thank you so much for being a loving voice in the sea of shame, so many of my fellow NPDers find ourselves in. I was tumbling down the rabbit hole in the likes of Sam Vaknin getting utterly bereft of hope again about my situation, with suicidal ideation returning. but after watching a few videos I feel Okay in feeling not okay, so to speak. I was able to bring some semblance of compassion to that feeling of bereavement and loss, and actually able to honor that feeling. thank you so much. On another note, do you think the therapeutic modality of ''Internal Family Systems'' is useful for not only managing but healing the underlying root trauma of Narcissism?
The most insightful and compassionate discussion/presentation of this topic I have seen thus far, it strikes at the heart of the common misconceptions of these personalities, and the complexities of love and fear. Thank you!❤😊
Looking forward for future videos
It's a common saying to reserve empathy from narcissist as it could be abused by them. But this is the first I've heard of extending empathy to the narcissist from the narcissist themselves. A really interesting statement; a method of introspection and a chance at renewal.
I work with a narcissistic client. The trick is to have strong empathy to be able to tolerate being around her, and strong boundaries to keep from being sucked in to her worldview.
@@cherylmockotr Mad respect for anyone with the patience to work with this population.
As this was my style of family, in some ways to the nth degree with 2 brothers who went more down narc style road, perhaps one flirting with clinically so, the question still remains: For SoME, the cement of the false self seems to cure like concrete to replace the true self, while for others, they seem to shoulder the suffering, often while being attacked by the very family members who turned to the darker side and lost themselves. Myths and legends are FILLED with characters faced with cold, life sucking conditions. Yes some, usually LONG before the age where we would hold any responsible for such a subtle decision, perhaps in some moment of crisis: SOME SEEM TO CHOOSE GOOD, and SOME SEEM TO CHOOSE EVIL -> under the same conditions. I do understand the viewpoint that Cluster B personalities are in part 'caused by' both genetic predisposition and environment. Yet wasn't an almost, not to call religion into it purposefully, I'm not particularly religious ... but DIDN'T the human, at some point, come to a fork in the road, and choose "it would be easier to just adopt the mask, turn off my true self, turn to the dark side" or at least 'turn away from the light'? IF there is any place for free will in the models of psychology - and if there isn't, then we should ALL choose pure psychopathy -> was NOT a choice made? Is Darth Vader to be considered a will-less outcome of a mechanical meeting of genetics and experiences? Or did HE, HIMSELF, not just nature, not just nurture, and not just a crisis, did he NOT choose, freely, to go 'away from the light'? At the deepest level, I believe there was a choice made by an aware sentient being. I KNOW I experienced that choice at age 3 and 5 and over and over and over, and I refused to go dark. I don't know why I did, I know at times it wasn't easy. I don't feel virtuous nor humble about it, I just remember it. And I was under the SAME conditions as my brothers, who are not extremely evil, or maybe not even evil, but were nightmare brothers to me. How do I explain their way, their character, their behaviors? I don't NEED to anymore, I cut ties with the family, but it is a FASCINATING question. Out of abusive families seem to come cluster B's, cured like concrete, or perhaps more like soil-cement, and also, from the same genes and conditions, come either the various versions of the not-dead empathic spectrum. Some too weak to make it, maybe some never question their experience, but many become the identified patient who think he is the screwed up on, the crazy one, only to learn from a keen eyed therapist that it is the family system that's a psychological toxic waste dump. So I ask Heal NPD - not so much as a challenge or search for an answer myself, but from fascination with the question: what do you say: Where is the role of choice and will and freedom in the outcome of the one's who survive the toxin, even if barely intact, versus those who give into it and become it? My brothers embraced my family style long before they could represent it abstractly. I hated it and rejected it also long before I had words for what it was, never let it in entirely, and I paid a big price for that, but saving my-SELF was worth whatever the price was. Why do some choose one direction, others choose the other, even at ages ... 2 (in their own way), 3, 5, 6, 9, 12, 15 17 etc. ? I remember those choices even though I didn't have language or intellectual concepts to express them back to myself in symbols. I remember specifically not being willing to do to them what they had done to me, but not REALLY knowing why, other than a non-intellectual "knowing" of right vs wrong which was NOT taught by my fakely ethical high facade but hypocritical parents. That knowing was there, but I am not particularly, if at all, virtuous, I'm not good, not bad. I didn't experience it as virtue either. It was more like ... if you have a rotted fetid carcass on one plate in front of you, and a healthy ripe apple on the other plate, you just KNOW which one to eat from ... it's not about right and wrong or good vs bad -> it's a knowing that has no attributes ... and similarly, you just KNOW which way to act. And you KNOW when you've acted wrong and as a consequence don't act wrong so often that it's a part of your character. So kids come to a fork in the road, and I don't hold them unaccountable. Of course whom I hold accountable or not doesn't really matter. It seems the universe does, thankfully, though not necessarily in the material realm. I don't hold them unaccountable for what they become and what they do. Somewhere in there ... there was a choosing.
Wow ♥️♥️♥️
Excellent comment . The love of the truth may be all that is missing in this sorrowful generation.
Hi Dr. Ettensohn, I want to first say thank you so much for your channel. I have been experiencing a collapse for the last year or so, and recently when it fully hit me that I was a narcissist it was one of the worst days of my life due to all the misinformation out there. Due to your channel I have gone from complete despair and wanting to end my life, to having hope for myself and my future. I can’t overstate how grateful I am for what you are doing. I wanted to make a suggestion for a possible future video. During the height of my collapse I experienced extremely intense projections/introjections in therapy as well as outside of therapy too in my actual life, and had seemingly regressed back to when I was a child experiencing abuse. I had no idea what was happening until I finally came across these concepts from psychoanalysis. I wanted to suggest making a video on defense mechanisms common in narcissism and how they might show up in someone with pathological narcissism/NPD vs how they might appear in a healthy (or non personality disordered person atleast). Thanks again for the compassionate, fair information you provide about this disorder, I genuinely don’t know where I would be without it!
Thanks for this. It means a lot to me to know that you found my channel helpful. 😊 Your defense mechanisms idea is good and similar to what I was planning for my next video. 👍🏻
@@healnpd Awesome, looking forward to it!
Absolutely excellent. Thank you so much for being so kind and fair in your explanations . Please make more of these uploads 🎉😊
Thank you! Will do!
People with Borderline Personality Disorder are drawn to Narcissists like moths to a flame. My mother was quite severely abused by her mother (the transgenerational transmission of trauma) and became a people pleaser who didn't stand up for herself. Insecure attachment style but always seeking reassurance. My malignant NPD dad exploited that by continuously making her work harder and harder until her health failed, all while physically beating and emotionally abusing his children. Me, the most, being the scapegoat. He also bankrupted the family business, never paid his employees' Social Security so everyone lost their retirement (good folks who had worked there 20+ years under the previous owner/showed my little brother how to turn back the odometer on a car he was selling on one post-divorce Saturday visitation and should rightfully be in prison but is living the high life like Trump in West Palm Beach) No mercy for NPDs, except those few self-aware ones who are watching this channel.
So glad you still keep making those videos, and this one again is super helpful! Please continue the great work!
Thank you SO MUCH for doing a video and sharing the connection between attachment and narcissism.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you, as always. Your articulation and the information you’re spreading is extremely valuable and appreciated.
I appreciate that!
It is so nice to hear someone talk with consideration and empathy about npd.
When you have been the victim of one after another of these monsters you have no sympathy for them at all. My family were terrible narcissists and psychopaths but as the scapegoat of them all I have no sympathy for them. I would never treat anyone the way they treated me. You know how bad it feels, you don't do it to others. If you do you are evil.
@@robinantonio8870 I am now in no contact for my wellness. I know what, and who, I am dealing with. Completing 3 years of therapy and study that will continue. I am not a victim though I was victimized. I’m not his therapist, mother, doormat or nasty confident. BUT, I also know he hurts deeply, and the more I’ve learned about npd the more sympathy I have. Does he need help? Absolutely. Can I be there for him? Absolutely not. For me that was the toughest lesson. I wish you well as your healing continues. I understand your perspective. I was there once.
Your channel is so valuable for those wanting to learn about NPD. Thank you for everything you do Mark, you’re awesome. I’ve wondered where feelings like contempt come from in pathological narcissism and NPD. Something I think I’ve experienced a lot
Connecting attachment with npd really helps. Thank you!
16:40 what youve been researching rings true for me. very superior self-identity withered away by chronic rejection from friends, family, and peers. generally speaking, happened over the course of 1-2 years in adolescence (male age ~14-16) that left me in a chronic state of collapse
Thanks for letting me know, and I'm sorry you experienced that.
Can you please do a video on narcissism and retroactive jealousy OCD? And how to deal with jealousy if you are a vulnerable NPD case.
The attachment theory is crucial in understanding how an invidual functions.It s stunning the way you digged inside the narcissistic behaviour! It s very well put! Excellent presentation and work!
Clear delivery of information without too much self interest.
Thank you!!! As a 30 yr veteran teacher, a child of narc trait parents who were from the same, and parent to a son who endured my watered down version learned self centered ness… just thank you!!! ❤ the compassion for Humans!!! 👏💞 bless!
Excellent video as always
I love the end of the video which is great for anyone healing the inner child! I still do!❤😊
Thank you for sharing all this information and so calmly. You are a wonderful gentleman.
You have explained this so well. So many videos condemn the NPD person, they have done so much damage. I was a victim myself. I am recovering from years of abuse. You are so wonderful to listen to I started listening to you for all the things that has happened in my life and I listen to analyze my own self. Again thank you for caring enough to share all you know to give hope to people.
Your video and audio quality has come a long way since you started! Looks super good 👍
Thanks! That actually means a lot to me. It has been a journey.
The more videos of yours I watch, the more do I get ready to dump my Asperger's diagnosis and just call myself a narcissist. It just feels more right than the autism spectrum ever did, especially considering the anamnesis. But then again, I've said it before and stand by it, every autistic person is also narcissistic to a degree, but not every narcissist is autistic, obviously.
What a crap. Don't say bs, please
You need professional help
Thank you for another great video
Thank you. I was trying to find a comprehensive guide that would explain what causes it, and Dr. Yeomans lectures weren't covering attachment theory.
I'm learning so much from many videos that have led me to this. One of the better. I hope to go over this again . If it doesn't get lost in the ozone.
This is great, I was wondering when I would see a new video, I really hope you can do an interview with Ruth at some point .
She and I are working on setting something up. 🙂
@@cjames1915 I'm looking forward to it to! Thank you for nudging us 🙌
@@drruthannharpur I know that our uk day time is probably Marks evening or late night but it would be a great interview 😀
@@drruthannharpur I hope this gets you both emailing each other as I’ll keep nipping your heels! lol!
i have an idea what can cause grandiose narcissism. Good looks, or having a talent. The person builds on it and it colours all aspects of their inner life.
Thank you very much for your work!
You're welcome!
I tend to think that what is referred to as NPD can not solely and not always be explained biographically. I'm not totally dismissing the attachment theory approach, it might very well align with some cases of NPD. I'm just saying that one must also look into neurology / neurobiology to explain the symptoms. Introversion, Neuroticism, Cautiousness etc. are all heavily biologically determined. Basically they signify neural functioning that differs from an ideal condition due to various neurobiological causes. This can manifest as NPD, BPD, avoidant personality, depression, social anxiety etcetera, depending on which cognitive domains and mental functions are primarily affected. Someone with a dopaminergic dysfunction or a hypofrontal condition will not gain much from discussing his / her childhood attachment styles, when the cause is really neurological. That's why I suggest that mire research needs to be done regarding the neurological ailments responsible for psychiatric manifestations. Improving cognitive functioning is crucial!
I think the nature/nurture debate is a false dichotomy. All mental phenomena are based in neurology. But that doesn’t mean they are equivalent to neurology. Experiences shape neurological predispositions just as neurology shapes psychological experience. The two develop in tandem, each influencing the other. That being said, I agree with your basic premise that more neurological models need to be developed…and I am sure they will as out ability to study the neurological basis/correlates of psychology advance.Thanks for watching.
@@healnpdThanks for the feedback! I agree almost (approx.) 80% except that I think that biology / neurology takes the primacy and the mental (if we separate it for arguments sake) is merely (or better: astoundingly) the result and product of the sheer complexity of the underlying neurology. So the neurology determines the mental to a much higher degree than vice versa, without wanting to argue in favour of full-fledged Biological Determinism. I view the Mental as an advancement of our basic senses, that integrates them into a consistent perception and experience of consciousness and existence. Maybe that's my agnostic bias or my observations and experiences of the literally "mind-altering" effects of neurological conditions leading me to those conclusions? Keep up the great work Doc! I haven't seen anything better on NPD in the public / KZhead domain. I will not dismiss ps,chological models of explanation, while keeping my curiosity for the neural correlates
WOW! So insightful and helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
THANK YOU ,that's all i can say. The longest video in our channel.worth the wait..
Glad you enjoyed it!
Question: Are people who are attachment avoidant and have a lot of attachment anxiety and need to feel loved and comforted in a "safe" way more inclined than others to be animal hoarders? Animals are easier to cope with than people. The "relationships" with pets/animals tends to be highly transactional and uncomplicated, and if it doesn't go "well" for the human in the equation, there is no legal consequence if they simply have the animal euthanized or abandon it somewhere..
Almost certainly. Humans mostly feel like a threat just by existing to me, but I love virtually all animals, from cats and dogs to horses, birds, insects, fish... with the exception of headlice maybe. I don't hoard though, don't even have any pets.
That is so accurate!
Thank you for your kindness and understanding. I may not get better soon, but I know there are at least some people that understand how I feel and that want to help. Thank you.
❤️
Thank you
You're welcome, and thank you for watching.
Secure attachment includes intimacy, hence honesty. How could an otherwise-secure person want intimacy with someone confiding to be a narcissist? In other words, why would someone who is not a therapist want to attach to a narcissist, and how can a narcissist form secure attachment with anyone other than likewise narcissists (who are insecure too)? To me it sound like narcissism can be cured either by managing to establish a secure attachment to self, or by finding a therapist who is secure enough to attach therapeutically - hence not wholistically - to narcissist.
thank you so much!
You're welcome!
I am trying to keep my emotions under control as I listen to you explain what appears to be going on in the persons mind who is suffering from this disorder, and for the life of me I could not see how you would leave out the fact that we know that the last thing that a person who is living with this disorder want to hear think ,or believe is that there is something wrong with them, I believe that this is dangerous territory for the untrained,let alone the unsuspecting ‘victim’ to venture into, please explain these points to your audience .I also believe that the sufferer should recognize the fact that they need help,before they would be able to except any help. I think I might have an idea of how this could be accomplished ❤. My Opinion. Thank you.
33y old male FA here. "high dependency on others from whom validation is needed to maintain self-esteem". What made me decide that attractive young women are the most potent source of validation? There were times in my life where I felt like a stray animal with an empty cup, almost begging for some unfortunate girl to fill it at least a little bit. To provide a bit of context, my mother figure was/is a narcissist
This is very insightful. Empathy is required. How do you navigate the rewrite of history and conversations even as they are occurring? Or, the plug in of plausible when there isn't a memory of an event? With the avoidance of self reflection, attempting to get to a place to form a reality-based attachment is not for the lay person it seems.
Thank you so much. Your videos are so healing, and they help to humanize people with NPD. We need to get away from black and white thinking. It is so damaging to everyone.
This will help so many people. Empathy is the answer.
Very few therapist understand NPD the way you do, Dr. Ettensohn. How do I find a therapist who can help me? With you it sounds like there is hope.
It would be helpful to understand NPD through attachment lens where the person claims they were overindulged by one or both parents all the time.
It's important to remember a couple of things: 1) people with avoidant attachment patterns tend to gloss over difficult aspects of their childhood because thinking about those things causes distress and activates the attachment system. In attachment interviews, avoidant adults will frequently recall a seemingly perfect childhood - but their stories lack detail. The avoidant children referenced in the video were learning to ignore their own distress through displacement (focusing on other things). Avoidant adults continue using that strategy and therefore have difficulty recalling the bad stuff. 2) even if a person's childhood was as overindulgent as they claim, that is, itself, a form of neglect. Overindulgence means that the parent wasn't tuning into the child's need for limits or boundaries. The parent was likely promoting a false self experience through indulgence (eg "Aren't I a great parent? I get you everything you want!").
@@healnpd Thanks for the great detailed response. I agree. My ex partner lacked details of her great childhood too, and I never got to hear them. She'd gloss over it by saying things like "my parents were always there for me" or "I got alot of love, my parents could die for me" or "they gave me everything". The details of the 3 main points from her childhood and early adolescene she actually shared with me painted another picture altogether. She would occasionally have meals with relatives who lived nearby (I suspect it was more than occasional meals, and she may have been partially raised by them due to parents' emotional and physical absence). Her mother was always annoying her, giving her lessons, telling her what to do. Father cheated on mother on business trips, and mother stayed in marriage for her sake. Father was a smoker, caused mother and himself lung cancer, and eventually took his life unfortunately (there was a lot of internalized guilt, shame, envy and distrust of opposite sex from this). I wish she's able to heal and find some peace. Despite my attempts to help her, I couldn't cope with the narcissistic abuse and had to abandon the relationship.
@@healnpd Thanks for the great detailed response. I agree. My ex partner lacked details of her great childhood too, and I never got to hear them. She'd gloss over it by saying things like "my parents were always there for me" or "I got alot of love, my parents could die for me" or "they gave me everything". The details of the 3 main points from her childhood and early adolescene she actually shared with me painted another picture altogether. She would occasionally have meals with relatives who lived nearby (I suspect it was more than occasional meals, and she may have been partially raised by them due to parents' emotional and physical absence). Her mother was always annoying her, giving her lessons, telling her what to do. Father cheated on mother on business trips, and mother stayed in marriage for her sake. Father was a smoker, caused mother and himself lung cancer, and eventually took his life unfortunately (there was a lot of internalized guilt, shame, envy and distrust of opposite sex from this). I wish she's able to heal and find some peace. Despite my attempts to help her, I couldn't cope with the narcissistic abuse and had to abandon the relationship.
Or grandparents. Especially, if they were very wealthy. Or the whole family was at one time. I was the only sib who never knew.
Hi! First off thank you so much for the video, it was interesting to listen to it. I’ve got a question though, is there a way to explain narcissism in a person who grew up in a good home? As long as I can remember my parents have been really kind, genuinely lovely people, but I think I’m experiencing a narcissistic collapse of some sort. I think a lot of what motivated me as a child was a grand self image, (still is tbh) and I did well at the time. I got to a point in adolescence where I stopped fitting in and developed social anxiety/ depression (for reasons other than that too). I’m 16 now and I’ve been self isolating/homeschooling due to my social fears and I think I’ve got a combination of fearful and dismissive avoidant behavior. I’ve watched some of your videos and I think I fit a description of vulnerable narcissism but am still emotionally avoidant with my family, who would love to help me out of the state I’m in. They can see my sense of self is really unstable and it causes them a lot of stress :( I don’t admit it and was never taught this but I’m really ashamed about the fact that I’m not perfect, which just fuels my avoidance. Was wondering if you had any idea as to why I turned out this way even in a loving household? Really grateful for your empathetic approach toward people with npd/ these kinds of personality issues ❤️
Also wanted to add that I’ve heard of kids who didn’t really know their parents were narcissists because they were covert. I genuinely believe that is not the case with my family. They are very genuinely compassionate parents who gave us kids the space to be individuals, and they never pressured us to be some sort of “ideal kids”. That’s why this situation confuses me. Was I just born with it? Predisposed? Idk
May be your home was loving but also very dysfunctional. Perhaps your parents loved you, but very conditionally. If you were doing good and behaving exactly as they wanted, then you were loved. Here is the question...how did your parents love you and treat you when you misbehaved and were imperfect or not good. Did they withhold affection? Did you feel unconditionally loved in your home whether or not were perfect? If not, maybe that's why are suffering now. Children need to be loved unconditionally to feel safe and secure. Perhaps you felt like had to earn your parents love...if yes. That is trauma causing.
I believe npd is even harder to heal than bpd because of the inherent defense mechanisms. However, not impossible. You need someone very secure and stable. Someone who doesn't react so much to your praise nor to your criticism, but still accepts you and sees you. Good luck.
I wonder if parts work can help the part that is the hurt child.. anyone with any attachment could use the process I’d imagine. Great explanation
can the collapse occur many times?
Yes
Can you address ASPD and how it differs from NPD and other PD's? Also, how someone can have a mix of PD's? Thanks for the insightful dive into NPD.
showing love and compassion to narcs does not change anything people who have been with them knows that nobody should wast time and energy on them
Does IFS therapy work on NPD?
This attachment theory grid resembles the old : I'm Ok / Your Ok etc. grid from the 1960's aye ?
Well…I was discarded two months ago by my covert narcissist husband. Luckily I was aware before that about this personality disorder so it didn’t cause a lot of damage (like beating my self up to understand how someone you thought it loved you, now it’s treating you like garbage-I understood from where it’s coming) but since than I am looking everywhere for information on how you can help a covert narcissist. There’s nothing on that, only that they can’t be helped. I saw that child in armour 23 years ago, I tried my best to care for him but I was always rejected. Despite all that, I still wish that someone or something could help these people. If someone knows some books, publications on this particular subject, please let me know. Or any other suggestions, like what type of therapy- although he rejects going because he says he doesn’t have a problem.
Oh, this is so difficult. 😔🙏❤️
Some say they can't be helped. Good luck. I'm glad you were prepared, in advance!
He gave you the answer. He doesn't have a problem that's why they say to save the children. Too many layers from their upbringing for some it's a game and we were pawns in it. The game is over once you see their mask slip. Happy you saw it coming some people never do and relationships with them have caused medical problems or even death. The psychological and emotional rollercoaster isn't worth it.
@@maristahuddleston6213 Thank you for your reply. This was my first watched video from this KZhead account. Since than I watched several more from this gentleman and found out one suggesting types of therapy and I bought a book from Heinz Kohut- The Analysis of the self (luckily it’s published in my language too, as English it’s not my first language). I don’t have high hopes though because he’s not aware of his wrongdoing. For several years I misread the signs, I thought he has mommy issues and daddy issues because of his childhood traumas which he did talked about at the beginning of our relationship. Years gone by trying to address them but he always said he doesn’t remember much from his childhood or that he doesn’t want to live in the past. And now we are here…although I saw the discard coming, it was still brutal because of the timing - I’m grieving the loss of my mother (I know this is yet another symptom of their pathology). I guess all I do now it’s helping me cope with everything. Because the battle I face ahead it’s a hard one to fight.
@@maristahuddleston6213Thank you for your reply. This was my first watched video from HealNPD. Since than I watched several more from this gentleman and found out one suggesting types of therapy and I bought a book from Heinz Kohut- The Analysis of the self (luckily it's published in my language too, as English it's not my first language). I don't have high hopes though because he's not aware of his wrongdoing. For several years I misread the signs, I thought he has mommy issues and daddy issues because of his childhood traumas which he did talked about at the beginning of our relationship. Years gone by trying to address them but he always said he doesn't remember much from his childhood or that he doesn't want to live in the past. And now we are here… although I saw the discard coming, it was still brutal because of the timing - I'm grieving the loss of my mother (I know this is yet another symptom of the pathology, when the discard it’s served by the person with NPD). I guess all I do now it's helping me cope with everything. Because the battle I face ahead it's a hard one to fight.
9:55 My entire 2023 in a nutshell.
fearful-avoidant is hell.
hey I have a suggestion maybe a video about npd vs adhd or their comorbidity thanks ❤
Can you do an episode on NPD splitting? Black and White thinking. What is the process of it, and if you are split BLACK with someone with NPD, is it possible to be split WHITE again? Thank you for your work.
i am fearful avoidant with bpd and npd
quiet bpd and vulnerable npd with aspd and hpd traits
Good luck.
Now the question is how does one heal their attachment style to become secure hmm 🤔
Sia's Unstoppable song seems to be a clarion of vulnerable narcissists 😢
In my experience the grandiose ego isn't an armour it's just a natural consequence of not being treated with enough care and esteem. You think "I feel like I'm worth more than I'm being given credit for" - because you are, anything short of emotional atunement and unconditional love - and unless another way to explain and solve the feeling of unfair treatment is encountered the idea that people don't see your value persists and extends further and further the more you meet people and keep feeling unatuned to. Eventually the whole world doesn't see your value because it never managed to connect to you and the grandiose idea is a plausible explanation for this.
So it's not a defense mechanism it's an honnest belief. I get annoyed when people say that because it's practically a logical falacy.
An honest belief can also serve a defensive purpose. Defense mechanisms are often overdetermined and serve multiple functions.
@@healnpd I see how it serves a purpose, I used to do that... but it wasn't the objective of the belief, it was a natural consequence. I didn't "build a grandiose identity" to defend against my lack of self esteem, it was the most reasonable conclusion I could imagine to explain what was hapening, and yeah it helped my sense of reality but I wasn't deliberately deluding myself. Not sure if I'm being clear about the nuance.
The grandiose self image is built exactly as you describe. It is an unconscious/implicit process.
Good info but nothing said about the sheer damage caused by narcissists
There is a potential for all individuals with significant mental illness, and personality disorders in particular, to cause damage. Thanks for watching.
Can a vulnerable narcissist be also malignant and sadistic? Or do malignant narcissists tend to be grandiose? (Though it's hypothesized that grandiose narcissists also experience vulnerable states, and that vulnerable narcissists go through grandiose phases, which would imply that malignant narcissists can be both types of narcissists. Is that a correct assessment?)
maglinant narcs are narc with antisocial personality disorder some people have more than one personality disorder malignant narcs can be found in overt narcs or covert narcs they can be any gender or of social class
yes Covert i was friends with was very sadistic and dangerous
@@nikiyoussef55 Oh, yes, of course! Thanks for your input. I don't know what I was thinking when I asked that question. The narcissist I myself dealt with was also extremely covert/"vulnerable" and highly sadistic at the same time. I guess I was wondering if malignant narcissists were usually grandiose, or if they could also present as "vulnerable".
👏👏👏❤
Any advice/tips on good jobs/careers for someone with vulnerable narcissism? - trust your opinion, don’t necessarily trust Googles opinions.
So many narcissist that healthy attachments are rare.
But Is it possible?
17:13 👏🏽😀🕺✨YEET
i believe i could be a narcissist and have NPD, however, my sense of self worth is very consistent. consistently delusional? yes, you could say so, but i only doubt myself and my capabilities when i feel absolutely rejected in a way, which isnt that frequent. only one person in my life can actually trigger me to the point i feel not enough and it is my best friend. sure, when i feel embarrassed in public for making a mistake or something of the sort i think “god that was so stupid” but then i quickly think of a justification and get over it, asserting myself at the top again. everything i do is for control and my image, admiration and perfection, and i generally believe i have met the other criteria and my psychiatrist believes NPD is indeed possible, but i was wondering about that. also, i am aware i am deeply insecure inside, i just barely ever touch those feelings… anyways, thank you
do you abuse and exploit people do you lack empathy and compassion
@@nikiyoussef55 not abuse really i suppose, but yes.
@@supernova2727 i hope that your self awareness will make you mindful in how you treat people wish you healing
@@nikiyoussef55 thank you! so do i, honestly. this isnt sustainable.
@@supernova2727 it is true i think awareness is the first step you cant change or do anything about problem you dont even know exist awareness and healing will make you happier and will benefit your loved ones if you dont have kids now it is good for you because you have better chance of parenting than if you were unaware
When you tell a narcissist that they are abusing you they will accuse you of abusing them. When you tell a narcissist that you feel used and taken advantage of they will tell you that they feel used and taken advantage of by you. When you tell a narcissist that you think they are a narcissist they will accuse you of being the narcissist. When you ask a narcissist to respect your boundaries and meet your needs they will cut off whatever "help" or resources they were providing you and tell you to stop emotionally terrorizing them and act like you are violating their boundaries after all they ever triedto do was help you out when you were in a tough spot. Narcissists will oftentimes "be there" for you when nobody else is because they set you up to fail and burn all your bridges so that you have nobody left to lean on for support except them and that's when they will abandon you all together and leave you for dead, literally. If you somehow manage to pull through and get back on your feet without them they will act like you betrayed them and went behibd their back and was two timing them somehow and will be standoffish to your comeback and achievements.
a head indeed
Pretend self = False self