What is Narcissism Part 1: The Problem with NPD
This video is the first part of a two video series.
The popular idea of narcissism is deeply flawed. Narcissists are often portrayed as villains: evil, vain, manipulative, and cruel. Such portrayals rest on the problematic DSM-5 definition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), and research supporting it using the Narcissistic Personality Inventory (NPI). Unfortunately, neither the DSM construct nor the NPI actually describe or measure mental illness. Instead, they both describe a personality type that is maladaptive in some settings, but highly adaptive in others.
In this video, narcissism specialist Dr. Mark Ettensohn breaks down the highly stigmatized concept of narcissism, citing recent research that calls the validity and utility of the DSM model of NPD into question.
Dr. Ettensohn is also author of the book, Unmasking Narcissism: A Guide to Understanding the Narcissist in Your Life, available on Amazon here amzn.to/3nG9FgH.
To learn more about NPD from a compassionate perspective, visit Dr. Ettensohn's website at www.DrEttensohn.com.
References
American Psychiatric Association. (1980). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (3rd ed.). Washington, D.C.: American Psychiatric Association.
American Psychiatric Association. (1987). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (3rd ed., rev.). Washington, D.C.: American Psychiatric Association.
American Psychiatric Association. (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed.). Washington, D.C.: American Psychiatric Association.
Buss, D.M., & Chiodo, L.M. (1991). Narcissistic acts in everyday life. Journal of Personality, 59, 179-215.
Cain, N.M., Pincus, A.L., &Ansell, E.B. (2008). Narcissism at a crossroads: Phenotypic description of pathological narcissism across clinical theory, social/personality psychology, and psychiatric diagnosis. Clinical Psychology Review, 28, 638-56
Caligor, E., Levy, K.N., & Yeomans, F.E. (2015). Narcissistic personality disorder: Diagnostic and clinical challenges. The American Journal of Psychiatry, 172 (5), 415-422.
Dimaggio, G. (2012, July 18). Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Rethinking what we know. Retrieved from www.psychiatrictimes.com/perso...
Johnson, S. M. (1994). Character styles. New York: W. W. Norton & Co.
Miller, J.D., & Campbell, W.K. (2008). Comparing clinical and social-personality conceptualizations of narcissism. Journal of Personality, 76(3), 449-476.
Miller, J.D., McCain, J., Lynam, D.R., Few, L.R., Gentile, B., MacKillop, J., & Campbell, W.K. (2014). A comparison of the criterion validity of popular measures of narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder via the use of expert ratings. Psychological Assessment, 26(3), 958-969.
Pincus, A.L., Ansell, E.B., Pimentel, C.A., Cain, N.M., Wright, A.G.C., &Levy, K.N. (2009). Initial construction and validation of the Pathological Narcissism Inventory. Psychological Assessment, 21, 365-79.
Pincus, A.L., & Lukowitsky, M.R. (2010). Pathological narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder. Annual Review of Clinical Psychology, 6, 421-446.
Raskin, R., &Novacek, J. (1989). An MMPI description of the narcissistic personality. Journal of Personality Assessment, 53(1),66-80.
Schoenleber, M., Roche, M.J., Wetzel, E., Pincus, A.L., & Roberts, B.W. (2015). Development of a brief version of the Pathological Narcissism Inventory. Psychological Assessment, 27(4), 1520-1526.
#npd #narcissism #mentalhealth #mentalhealthawareness #psychology #healing #dsm #narcissus #psychologist #psychoanalysis
I will remove comments that are abusive to any individual (including myself) or population. This includes comments that are abusive toward pwNPD.
Thank you so much. I searched for some self help for my NPD (because the NHS and private therapists have deemed me untreatable) and almost everything out there is not about the person with the problem, but about "surviving" the narcissist. Just knowing that someone, anyone is actually trying to help is a huge comfort.
I think anything is treatable if the person is motivated and willing. The fact that you seem to be looking for help is a very good sign. Best of luck in your journey of healing and recovery.
@@healnpd Thanks. The NHS' reasoning was that I hadn't had great success with a short course of CBT a decade ago. Ironically enough, I had suggested then that a PD described my symptoms better than depression. I was told it was impossible that I had a PD. 🙄 Is there a part 2 of this video coming?
@@XKenny77 Many people, even clinicians, don’t understand the relationship between narcissism and depression. Part 2 is coming later this week. :)
I agree. I have had some challenging relationships with people who are high in trait narcissism, but I’m getting sick and tired of people treating people like this as sub-human. We all have struggles and things to work on, and I also appreciate him for taking a more analytical and optimistic approach to these challenges!
Best wishes to you!
I am an ex-partner of a 6 year relationship with a woman who would certainly be diagnosed with NPD, of the covert/vulnerable variety, I can share what it looks like from the inside. Alcoholism, suicide attempt after going sober, nearly constant anxiety and rumination, OCD, depression, IBS, hypochondria, autoimmune skin conditions, chronic dissatisfaction, loads of envy, shame, self-loathing, crippling insecurity, relative comparison, entitlement, exploitative manipulation, social awkwardness, selfish impulsivity, shocking lack of empathy and morals, total lack of object constancy, inconsistent emotions, indecisiveness, and the emotional intelligence of a five year old. Although she treated me with more cruelty than I've ever experienced in my life and nearly shattered me emotionally after our breakup, I don't hate her or resent her- I understand that she is broken inside and that this formed as a survival defense at a very young age. She was likely molested by her father, hated/resented by her mother, watched her closest childhood friend die in front of her, grew up in poverty, and feels like an imposter in every environment she operates in. I can't even imagine how it feels to go through life like that. I will never have any contact with her again for my own safety, but I wish her no ill will and can only feel sorry for her now. Education helps reframe the narrative- these people are not evil demons, they are very psychologically disturbed and often have no idea what is wrong with them (even though they do know something is wrong).
my mother was an alcoholic and a narcissist, and almost killed me. Don't feel sorry, when she died, I felt relief.
@@Wasp239 My ex-husband was a grandiose narc and alcoholic. He died 2 months ago from stage 4 cirrhosis. Me and our oldest son are both relieved he is dead. It may be a mental illness but it does not change the fact that he did immense damage to our family.
As someone who is experiencing the social, emotional, and empathic detriments as a result of my narcissism, understanding that I’m not an inherently evil or horrible person has been extremely cathartic. Without looking for a handy excuse to vindicate my actions, I can say that coming to understanding the link between my childhood turmoil and present day distress is invaluable. Thank you so much for your compassionate work.
@Hugosolomon3188 Thanks for letting me know. My best to you on your journey of healing.
As someone diagnosed with NPD thank you for this video. My disorder is, unpleasant, to say the least. But people are more comfortable viewing it as a reason their ex was shitty to them rather than a severe psychiatric condition. I hope you continue this series, so far it has said things that desperately need to be said.
The stigma and vilification surrounding narcissism is unbelievable. Many would be shocked to know that they are actively stigmatizing a vulnerable population. Narcissism is correlated with depression, anxiety, substance use, self-harm, and suicide - which is the topic of an upcoming video. Best wishes to you in your journey of healing and recovery.
Thanks for bringing this channel to your own viewers' attention!
I agree with you! I have a very good friend that suffers with this disorder. Other friends of mine have a hard time understanding why I still “deal with his b.s.”…I view it as just another mental disorder. (I don’t mean that in a derogatory way). I would no more completely discard and turn my back on this person than I would do so to a friend who had extreme depression, agoraphobia, etc etc. I think it is awful that most people do not realize that people with this disorder SUFFER TERRIBLY. While their interactions with others are def not the “norm”, we have to learn to accept them with all of their faults (because we ALL HAVE SOME), and stick by them regardless, as any good friend would. I have a feeling my friend has not had a old friend to stick by him before. I’m that one. And I can tell how much he truly appreciates me. Peace to all of you suffering with this disorder. By the way, Nameless Narcissist, I enjoy your channel too immensely.
Are you kidding me? Narcissists do Horrific damage to other people. It doesnt help that people like you dont recognize that Narcissistic abuse is REAL
@@Buttercup-vw2zo I've never denied that people with NPD can (and do) hurt people, but that doesn't mean it's not a serious mental health condition that damages the people living with it. I Highly recommend heal NPD's series here on the topic. It will give alot of insight how it's a little more nuanced than it's often portrayed. I hope you have a good day
Your analogy of a drowning person is probably the best way of describing this condition. My experience of being in a relationship with these individuals is a keen sense of their distress
As someone with NPD in a relationship with someone else with NPD, I think this video was pretty good, keep it up!
Thanks, and glad it was helpful. Be sure to check out Part 2!
This is the video I have been waiting my whole life for. In two weeks I will be 65 years old. A lifetime of misery explained. Thank you.
I'm so glad that this has been helpful to you. It sounds like you've been through a lot.
Wow, I'm so glad to see your comment. I'm thinking to tell my ex, who is 60, that I think he has some level of NPD. The fact you can seemingly embrace this information w/ relief at your age too, makes me think it might be of some help to him. Hard to know if you'll see this comment a year later, but if you do, I'd love to know how are now and if you were able to get some sort of help, and/or qualified counseling for it?
Thank you. I have NPD and it is rare to find anything good online about it. I appreciate your content a lot.
You are so welcome!
You can't even begin to grasp how helpful and appreciated your content is by many, thank you
Thank you so much for making this! I've been researching narcissism because I started to suspect that I could be a covert narc and maybe my mom is too. After seeing a lot of these traits in myself I'm really worried. The sensationalized videos and books telling how to "get revenge on the narcissist" always struck me as narcissistic themselves because they are essentially doing the same behaviors in response. Idk what to believe anymore because so many people seem narcissistic to me, myself very much included in that boat. Maybe we need to remove the word from our vocabulary because so much of this is a result of childhood trauma in my opinion. Your videos give me hope and are needed in this current social environment so we can all develop more empathy and understanding for this stuff.
The narcissistic protective false self is very good that even the DSM bought it lol The DSM that was put by psychologists who supposed to see through and analyze people only describes the facade! How ironic!
Ironic, indeed.
And my favorite is the last section in DSM-5:. "Other Considerations ..." such as various relationships or types of abuses that clients may also discuss in therapy. AHAHAHA!!! QWACKS ME UP!! The APA did a great job of following Spitzer (1980, DSM-III) of not mentioning causation. I need a tissue!!!
Thank you for this content. I believe that I have actual NPD with all the suffering that comes with it. I look forward to your next videos. Subscribed ♥️
Thank for the feedback. The second part of this series should be available next week. :)
Love this. Best series I’ve seen on narcissism yet. I hope you’ll create more videos more frequently in the near future. The world needs more accurate information about what NPD actually is.
Thanks 🙂
I havnt read any HG Tudors books but all his videos on the cluster B are spot on. I highly suggest watching his videos you will get the understanding you are seeking, I spent 27 years with a covert malignant narcissist ( mid ranger)
I found HG Tudor’s classification system extremely helpful in understanding what was happening to me.
Thank you for bringing up the stigmatization of NPD (and Cluster Bs in general, for that matter) within the professional community, which unfortunately still seems prevalent. It's definitely one of the reasons why pwCluster Bs are reluctant to seek professional help. Also, psychodynamic therapy is underrated, imo. Do you solely specialize in NPD, or could you address AsPD as well? Either way, looking forward to more videos on your channel!
I specialize in narcissism, but like most therapists I also work with a wide range of issues. I wouldn’t be opposed to making a video on AsPD, but it would likely be as it relates to NPD.
@@healnpd Thanks for your reply! A video about AsPD as it relates to NPD sounds good too. Since traits often overlap, your content, even if focused on NPD alone, might be helpful to other Cluster Bs as well. Thank you for creating this channel!
Wowww, I am so happy to have been redirected to your videos from a reddit post! ^_^ All these prevalent definitions of NPD kept me tormented and stuck for years in the same patterns of abuse, because I did not recognise people around me to fit anything of the DSM5 and popular definitions - although the "outcomes" fit those discussed online. I had a breakthrough months ago, but still, it is good to find a space online where I am allowed to try to understand my pwNPD from a place of love and caring, and try to reposition myself in the relationship with them and myself starting from there. I want to find ways to healing myself which include them, not which demonise them.
Thank you for this! The DSM criteria suck and probably stop a lot of people getting any self awareness. I definitely didn't identify with the self loving stuff. Trying to be perfect, rather than being a person with needs isn't a very loving experience.🙈
Does that mean you're one of the surprisingly many self aware people diagnosed w/ NPD? Have you got in therapy and it's helped you. Those of us who have had painful dealings w/ them are trying to understand too. There's little hope given out there for those diagnosed, or those that love them, so I really hope channels like this grow. There needs to be a balance against the plethora of channels that only talk of narcissist abuse. I'd like to see the people struggling w/ it portrayed as people that can be helped as well.
You have one of the clearest and best use of language/choice or words that I have ever heard- on any topic.
been looking far and wide for the answers i needed and only after finding your podcast have i found my answer i needed. the crazy stereotypes were the only thing stopping me from getting the help i need!! thank you so much for your work there are real people you're helping ❤❤❤
I'm so glad you're finding answers now and that you were looking for them. Can you share what got you on the road to looking? Any sharing you feel to do could help yet more people. There seems to be a growing network online that is willing to see you as a person struggling w/ something really difficult. We come from both ends, those that share the disorder and also seeking help, and those that love people w/ the disorder seeking to not take the difficulties so personally. I'm so over the "narc abuse channels" for a number of reasons.
Unfortunatly, I think most narcissistic people never realize they have a problem. I also think it's a waste of time to try to make them admit they destroy other people. It makes my hart bleed, because I believe both my parents to be narcicssitic. I stopped seing them but I feel a lot of sadness and loneliness.
Listening to the self aware narcissist channels, they do seem to know they have a problem and they know they are different, long before they accept a diagnosis. It would be very hard to accept this diagnosis, esp. w/ the stigma attached to to it. My mother is probably one too and likely my ex of 10 years. I would not try to tell my mother, she's 75 now. I stumble along in a relationship w/ her as best I can. Knowing she probably has this does help me to not take her actions so personally. I'd learned long ago to not expect any real mothering from her. W/ my ex, I think I will try to tell him. There is some small chance he would seek therapy or at least look into it.
Wow, so agree....You are a very smart doctor.
Thank you for a different narration on this phenomenon on Narcissism. I truly enjoyed it.
I really enjoy it too. Not sure which end of NPD you are, whether suffering w/ it or suffering from attempting to deal w/ and understand a person you love w/ it. This kind doctor seems to help both.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 Neither. I am a professor on Narc Abuse and healing
@@brendamonjaras8733 How do you mean a professor, as in you teach it in university or college? You mentioned a Dr. Ettonsohn has a different take on the top, I take it this is largely not what they teach when they potentially are training therapists?
At last a critical and balanced analysis.
Breath of fresh air. And of rationality.
I’m so glad I came across your videos. After watching countless videos from people who demonise people with NPD I now realise these people probably don’t have NPD. I’ve learnt from you that NPD is rare and it’s a mental condition and should therefore be viewed with a sympathetic approach and a better understanding which in turn would really help these unfortunate individuals and enlighten the general population. I’m very grateful for your knowledge, wisdom and teaching.
Hi Dr., Thanks for making this video, I've been looking for resources and continually running into many of the issues you described. I am currently working with a man that I believe shows many of the traits of a vulnerable narcissist. Our work is more often then not in remote 1 on 1 situations. As you can imagine this is a difficult situation for me (and I imagine for him) and I hope to find a way to protect myself while not being cruel. Do you have any literature advice on how best to both understand the condition and work with someone with it? I am a scientist so journal publications may also be helpful. Thank you, Ben
Hi Ben - Thanks for your question. My book is written for folks in your situation. You might find it helpful: amzn.to/3nG9FgH
thank you dr. Ettensohn for this video. What do you think about psychiatrists or therapists not diagnosing somebody with NPD because they're "too self-aware" clients? Is it possible somebody might be self-aware enough to realize they have a personality disorder? And will you talk about vulnerable narcissism next?
I don’t think that diagnosing someone with NPD should hinge on whether or not they are aware of their psychopathology. This in some ways gets back to the issues the video discusses with the current diagnostic model for NPD. In combination with public and even clinical stigma (yes, that’s also a thing), the current criteria may lead some clinicians to assume that all narcissists fit a certain mold: callous, arrogant, insensitive, and indifferent to the harm they may cause others. While some narcissists present this way, many do not. I think a fair share of narcissists (especially those with more vulnerable features of the disorder) are probably aware that they have significant mental health issues and may have even identified those issues as narcissistic. Clinicians should always listen to their patients. There’s a great quote by Heinz Kohut (an analyst who specialized in narcissism and founded Self Psychology), “If there is one lesson that I have learned during my life as an analyst, it is the lesson that what my patients tell me is likely to be true - that many times when I believed I was right and my patients were wrong, it turned out, though often only after a prolonged search, that my rightness was superficial whereas their rightness was profound.” Stay tuned for part 2 of this video series, which will discuss vulnerable presentations of NPD. It should drop sometime this week. :)
You are so smart
I imagine the reason for the backlash is because the dangerous ones cause SO MUCH damage to really good people. After trying to wrap my head around it for over a decade, I've come to a place where i know it's a coping mechanism for him. But he knew he was hurting me and didn't stop. Strangled, death threats, took a baseball bat to me. And left me with nothing. Lied in court, endless court so i can't fight back. I'll die by poverty and starvation decades too soon. And i don't imagine he will care. I'm not sure why the victims (and one of these bad ones can create so many victims in their lifetime) are supposed to continue to have empathy for them when they have none for us. They know what they do is wrong, and that's why its done in secret. But they don't try to stop. I'm glad that dome are aware they have this snd trying to improve. Sadly the one I'll never be free fom won't ever admit anything. From what i gather, most narcissists are unaware they have a problem. And many of the people they manipulate are also unaware. It took me a long time to figure it out. The damage is so severe I'll never regain what i lost
As a person with Borderline Personality Disorder it makes sense that people with Narcissistic personality disorder would function how they do based on childhood and how they were raised. Just like the borderline, histrionic, or Antisocial. Borderlines are demonized but not to the extent as people with NPD.
Yes it's very horrible how we are demonized in this internet stuff
BPD is a bit more acceptable nowadays. NPD and ASPD get the extreme short end of the stick. Histrionic isn’t even talked about, honestly. And almost treated like an extension of NPD. It’s to the point where even BPD folks turn on and demonize their fellow cluster b’s because they want to be good in the eyes of society.
I wonder why I’m rewatching all your videos again on a very grandiose day (coming from a self loathing couple of days) if NPDs don’t seek treatment in grandiose state!? Preparing!?
There is so much confusion regarding 'narcissism' that if even an authoritative source uses the word, one can never be very sure what they mean. Regarding the DSM-5's description of NPD, it strikes me as a description of psychopathy; specifically factor 1 of the psychopathic personality (affective and interpersonal features). The low prevalence rate of
I have seen people with toxic traits serve humanity in a variety of ways, that people with other personality types would barely survive... from soldiers who are extremely successful in accomplishing difficult missions... to physicians who can endure constant exposure to trauma, as well as other emergency responders in my family...still are actually extremely effective in saving lives... I appreciate your channel, and compassionate understanding of the core problem, that is Narcissism. They may be abusive in their immediate social circles which is unfortunate, but I agree, they aren't all around VILLAINS.
What about Nick Birch from Big Mouth? I didn't even recognize how much he was being a bad friend to Andrew at first because I was empathizing with his self-centered motivations. But he's also 13 so is it just a realistic portrayal of immaturity? He's an author insert and the show is like about him growing up but he doesn't seem to learn that much.
It'd be great to hear you talk about how the ICD system now deals with these kinds of things. It seems their new system is probably significantly better than the DSM - instead of trying to shoehorn people into arbitrary and controversial personality disorder boxes like the DSM does, it simply records traits.
How do someone get diagnosed if mental health workers use the dsm 5 to diagnose?
It isn’t currently possible to diagnose someone with a predominantly vulnerable presentation using the DSM checklist criteria. It is possible to diagnose them using the alternative DSM criteria, or using other criteria provided by alternative diagnostic systems (like the PDM-2). I have also made the argument that a creative reading of the DSM checklist criteria would allow for diagnosis of vulnerable narcissism. Grandiose attributes are present but covert/implicit/unconscious during vulnerable presentations. They can be found if the therapist looks for them. For example, covert grandiosity often drives overt depression in pathological narcissism. The person feels worthless because their sense of self worth is based on covert grandiose expectations (eg everyone should like me, I should be the best, etc).
This video is amazing. I consider myself a self aware narcissist and work diligently to accept myself as a whole and make decisions based on all parts of me, not just some parts of me. This video brought something to light about vilifying narcissistic personality disorder. In my experience, some NPD behavior is an effort to avoid shame. Which is literally exacerbated by the media and misinformation about NPD. How is a person who experiences this disorder supposed to be accepted or think that they can be different, if the literature and media feed the shame? You point this out so well in this video and I can only hope that more people find it.
Thanks for your feedback and I'm glad you found it helpful. Check out Part 2 of the video if you haven't already. :)
probably, because it's so annoying when narcissits project all their bs onto others. What do you expect? For people to just lay down there and be doormats for you?
Lack of empathy. This is the primary issue in my opinion.
Low empathy is not synonymous with narcissism. Using the DSM-5, a person can be diagnosed with NPD without meeting the low empathy criteria.
@@healnpd Thank you for this! It’s only 1 of 9 criteria.
Hi! I’m a psych student- is there a way I could intern under you?
Send me an email through my website.
I agree! The dsm criteria sucks. It doesn't describe a mental illness.
Disney and other “children’s” movie! “How to learn stigmas as normal!” 😢
5:04 Hierarchical relationships
The mother of my children is a pathological narcissist. Whenever told the truth. I found out that another man was sending him money daily, weekly for 3 years. She said she hasn't seen him since middle school and he gave it to her bc he is nice with no ties or had to do anything fro hime. I say she cheated, nothing is free in life. What do you think
narcissists are not into themselves, they're into the image of themselves. and yes, the popular narcissistic literature is horrible
Right on both accounts. Thanks for watching.
@@healnpd thanks for your work, I only wish it could help people more
7:26 Maybe discuss narcissistic protagonists bc those exist too
Keep going. There's more, especially when you search for empirical evidence. Non-credentialed person here.
Good video. Definitely gives me something to consider. But the one trait that concerns me the most is the lack of empathy. I do feel bad for these folks, but the lack of empathy is what puts them in the "villain" category. Am I wrong? If you don't care about other people then you're not exactly a "good guy".
Low empathy is not synonymous with NPD. Even if we go by the somewhat problematic DSM definition of NPD, to be diagnosed a person must exhibit at least 5 of 9 criteria. Low empathy is one of those criteria. But it is very possible to be diagnosed without having low empathy.
@@healnpdReally!? If that's true, it's a big deal. If some have empathy or can develop it, that makes a huge difference.. Ok, I will take your word for it, for the moment at least. I loved someone with BPD and NPD. I thought she loved me but she tried numerous times to destroy my life. If they're deliberately trying to hurt someone that loves them, that would mean that particularly person has no empathy. Would you agree?
I was going to ask the very same question. I’ve never known of a narcissist having empathy but when comparing to a list of traits and having to knit picks so many from them and if it is one that isn’t packed I guess that would make sense. But look at it the other way around. How could a villain be a true villain and not be a narcissist? Or rather, how could a villain have empathy and still be villainous? Therefore, I guess it is possibly safe to say that all villains are narcissists, but not all narcissists are villains.
@@healnpd I read that narcissists have no emotional empathy but can show cognitive empathy to manipulate others.
While it may be true that some narcissistic individuals intentionally manipulate others in a cold and calculating way, I would not say it is true for the vast majority of people with whom I have worked. That sort of manipulation is more indicative of psychopathic traits. Narcissism is much more about unstable self-esteem and desperate need for social approval. These issues are sometimes expressed in maladaptive ways that involve being emotionally coercive, manipulative, aggressive, or entitled, but that is not true of everyone.
Thank you for not being extremely abliesm
Feelings of inferiority are a source of distress in and of themselves. As for the stigma, I get a cheeky laugh out of being a roguish and card-holding cartoon villain, but I hate being known as lesser because of it or having to hide virtually all of my personality because of the stigma and red flags. Also, the NPI can go throw itself in the dumpster where it belongs - I take more stock in the Hogwarts House test from IDR Labs!
If we cant got equality any other way, than that we all are alike in every way, it is our narrow mind that do all forjudges and racism. When we have easy to accept other way than the way we like. We all have our own taste. Like narssism. It is charming in the eyes of the one and only that see his narssism in better light than the one that not like it. To wide up our narrow mind.
🫢 how to blank a narcissist?! How fucking sick
Yep. Some of the literature in this topic is genuinely frightening.
*Survivalism Here's to Reduction in Suffering.
Hold on. That there are so little people with NPD diagnosis does not mean they are not out there. If they feel there is nothing wrong with them, or they don’t want to look in the therapy mirror, you don’t get to giagnose them. But they are out there.
No need to hold on. The video clearly states that grandiose presentations of NPD that fit the DSM criteria are out there, but that studies have estimated them to represent a very small percentage of the population. Compared to the relatively small percentage of people who fit this phenotype of NPD, there is a massive overrepresentation in popular media.
@@healnpdI think this is an incorrect conclusion. People with NPD are unlikely to seek therapy. Therefore less diagnosis.
The video makes several arguments. Your point is actually one of them. 1) NPD as defined in the DSM is a unidimensional construct that fails to capture the true variation of NPD in the real world. 2) Due to this, the construct defined in the DSM is underdiagnosed because clinicians simply don't see many pwNPD when they are in a grandiose state. Narcissists seek treatment when they are in a vulnerable state, which is not discussed or described in the DSM model. 3) Epidemiological studies of actual patient populations (both inpatient and outpatient) suggest that the version of NPD described in the DSM is rare compared to other personality disorders. To say that this is *simply* because pwNPD don't seek treatment and are therefore not diagnosed in numbers as great as other disorders is to miss that the mai issue is the DSM construct itself. The clinicial and empirical literature supports the point you are making - that NPD is underdiagnosed - but show that it is for all of the reasons I listed above, not *just* the reason you point out in your comment. This is important because it leads us in a different direction when we understand that the diagnostic criteria itself are the problem. There *are* many more narcissists out there than it seems, but that is because most of them *don't* fit the DSM construct as it is currently written.
4:37 takes one to know one
How to kill a narrcissist should be subtitled...How to put you self in jail for life but only if you escape the death penalty 😆
If you have ever experienced abuse at the hands of a narcissist, you would understand these provocative titles.
Daddy is going to take care of my narcissistic bats 🦇.
is brain health brain science psychology
Great fucking video
Thanks!
People with NPD don't tend to seek therapy, so I've heard. That means the rest of us have to sort through a myriad of articles and videos to find a "diagnosis" for them. We're just protecting ourselves. They're the most destructive people ever born, and a lot of us have spent our lives desperately trying to either change them, or change ourselves to please them. We've had enough.
I have an extremely long waitlist for services. Someone should tell these people that narcissists don’t seek treatment.
I agree, the narcissist I dealt with was absolutely vicious when he decided the grass was greener somewhere else. I was growing weary of all his abuse and I called him out on it. He baited me into an argument, screamed that he hated me 3 times, screamed that my daughter (with autism) was a "retard" 3 times and then vindictively tried to make false accusations against me to my local law enforcement. It was terrifyingly traumatizing. It took me well over a year to recover (after a lot of work) from this relationship. I remain no contact with this person and anyone associated with him for my own safety. This is just fair warning for unsuspecting individuals who feel they can "help and heal" a narcissist. I would be very cautious when you listen to videos such as these. I used to listen to the few videos out there that give hope for my narcissistic relationship and I was severely traumatized by mine after I twisted myself into a pretzel trying to be sympathetic to his disorder. Be careful, these people can be capable of more destruction to you than you think.
@Jennifer - That sounds like an awful experience. I’m curious about the latter part of your comment, when you caution folks about listening to ‘videos like these.’ This particular video covers the diagnostic controversies in the field concerning pathological narcissism and NPD. Basically, NPD is more complex than the DSM model would lead people to believe, and often includes deficits and distress on the part of the individual. Nowhere is it implied or suggested that people should stay in abusive relationships. I’m glad you were able to set a boundary and remove yourself and your daughter from what sounds like a terrible situation.
@@healnpdI've heard the same from all my therapists. That they only come in when court ordered
@qitae - Those people don't understand pathological narcissism. Most people don't, and this includes therapists. I teach graduate students. I am familiar with the clinical training they receive, which is quite strong in some respects but lacking in others.
Maybe if more narcissists would go ahead and allow a professional to asses them, the next DSM could be more appropriate. Heaven forbid they would, because they feel they are perfect.
Not all of them feel perfect. Heck, even for the ones that do, it's probably a defense mechanism.
Many therapists have a stigma influence on themself. And it's painful to meet the opposite, when you're vulnerable and are seeking help. It's like a one more death inside
These provocative titles make sense to anyone who has ever experienced narcissistic abuse.
I am glad your channel exists as a way to give people that suffer from narcissism a sympathetic view on their disorder. I do have to push back on a couple of items though. I have been academically trained to question arguments like you are making in this video. First of all, you make the claim that people with NPD are exceedingly rare even though their depiction in the media is prevalent. There are two points I would make to counter that. Fictional stories are about conflict. You don't get conflict without having good guys and bad guys. It is not the fault of storytellers that the description of NPD is also a list of visible traits of villains. Secondly I would like to push back on the very notion that narcissists are exceedingly rare. The problem with this is that narcissists rarely seek therapy to treat their personality disorders. If a person is in complete denial of their own flaws they will not admit they have them long enough to visit a therapist. I would argue strongly that the numbers of diagnosed individuals is anything like the reality of how many people actually have this disorder. People with NPD are resistant to seeking therapy, and you cannot get help unless you admit there is a problem. And that is really the crux of why the victims of narcissism get all of the attention, and not those who have this terrible mental health problem, because it is the victims that are being disordered by the disorder, perhaps in some ways more than the narcissist is. This is the heartbreak of loving a narcissist. You have to own the fact that you cannot fix them. So many people that love a narcissist will allow themselves to be abused because they hope the narcissist will change. The reason why so many experts are out there telling people that the narcissist won't change is because most of them never do. Watching your videos is going to be very hard for some people. I have a family member that I asked to go to therapy with me as a last ditch effort to mend our relationship. She laughed at me and told me she didn't need therapy, but that I had every mental illness ever documented, so I should go. She is not a Disney villain. I love her. But the hope that she will be able to have some sort of meaningful relationship with me as died. Here I sit, no contact, and its been 2 years. It hurts more as time goes on. I feel like she died. Part of me is watching this video and having a seed of hope. When Pandora opened her box all the evils of the world were unleashed and she managed to shut it before hope escaped. Perhaps we'd all be better off if hope escaped too. Because hope can be a dangerous thing.