The Definitive Review: M3 Competition feat G82 M4 and E30 M3 - Jason Cammisa on the Icons - Ep. 03
The G80 M3 can't live up to our expectations from the M3 badge when the G20 3-series it's based on barely resembles a 3-series.
Or can it?
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In this episode of ICONS, Jason explores where our expectations of the M3 badge come from - starting from the original M3, which was a response to the FIA homologations-special Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16.
Holding any M3 to the standard of the E30 M3 isn't fair to BMW, because the E30 M3 was a sales failure.
The E46 M3 wasn't. It combined the charms of a race car in a usable daily package with killer performance and a motorsports-inspired, 8000-rpm S54 straight-six. The E46 M3 was peak M3.
Which leaves us at the G80, which is now larger than Peak M5: the E39. M5s, historically, were do-everything-well executive saloons. That's a great bunch of attributes, but it's not what we expect when we see an M3 badge.
Then again, the G80 is the best M3 to ever drive around a race track. So maybe its name is irrelevant.
And once again, an enormous, heartfelt thank you to Tammi Hull and to Saint Bill, owner of Bill Arnold Independent BMW in San Rafael, CA.
0:00 Half-Mile Rolling Burnout with G80 M3, E46 M3, E30 M3, G82 M4 and 190E 2.3-16
1:00 M3 means unrealistic expectations
1:43 E30 M3 on track
2:32 E30 M3 was unsellable
3:43 Introducing the 190E 2.3-16
3:57 The 2.3-16 world records
5:01 Mercedes W201 history
5:54 W201 WRC homologation car
7:28 The “Sport 190” on the Nürburgring
8:41 BMW E30 M3 history
9:57 E30 versus W201
10:30 E30 M3 aerodynamic tricks
11:52 M3 in DTM
12:15 Mercedes vs BMW in DTM
13:33 Jason’s 190E 2.3-16
14:28 Randy vs Jason, 190E vs M3
17:25 E30 vs W201 DTM record
17:50 E36 M3 and E46 M3
18:13 E46 M3 ZCP is Peak M3
19:33 E90 M3 is really an M5
20:00 The G20 3-series BMW
21:15 G80 M3 track test
22:58 G80 M3 drift analyzer
23:26 The ZF 8HP automatic
23:59 Jason slaps Randy Pobst
24:50 E30 M3 vs G80 M3 track battle & Randy Pobst review
27:36 Thunderhill Laptime leaderboard
27:50 Concluding thoughts on G80 M3 and G82 M4
==
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Because of content like this, I NEVER watch television anymore.
Yep Hats off to JF Musial for keeping the /Drive spirit going
True
@@Che1seabluesdrogba11 JF Musial has been making great content for Hagerty, however, this piece is not his. My team and I work with Jason to produce the Icons and Revelations shows. Thanks for watching!
@@Che1seabluesdrogba11 I’d check the credits. This content this is written and directed by Jason, his Director partner Anthony Esposito and their team. JF Musial and /Drive have nothing to do with it.
Seriously,. I’m getting off my lazy ass tomorrow to cancel Dish.
This is old Top Gear levels of content. Insanely good. Easily the best automotive content I’ve watched in years.
I am not really into automotive content in general... but i was hooked from the first second... awesome shots! great lighting... good content... funny story... well done guys!
This definitely filled that void
Its better as car review.
I was about to say the same thing fabulous video thanks for making it
It's top gear without the 3 stooges.
Camisa had it right, he didn’t want to do boring reviews on new cars he wanted to tell a story and he is killing it! Love this channel!
The filming and the quality of the racing part between Jason and Randy is beyond close to all the block buster movies the last 10years. Brilliant editing and camera work👏🏼
True.
yesss
Matt Farah was right, that opening sequence is easily of the level I would expect from Grand Tour/Top Gear. Beautifully done.
Thanks!
@@JasonCammisa thanks you for all the amazing videos
It really was. That is very skillful. Jason and Randy are driving gods.
@@JasonCammisa Great job that was amazing as usual! Only one question. When's the next Carmudgeon show?
@@abalakrishnan4152 Recorded last week, being edited as I type this. Dunno when it'll go live, but I suspect within a few days! Thanks!
Dear Hagerty thank you for not putting this work of art behind a paywall
This isn't onlyfans.
@@RelaxAndSmokeMeth Motortrend did it.
300th like! Yay me! And yeah much agreed....so appreciative that content of this calibre is plain free. Definitely worth subscribing.
This is, without a doubt, the best car reviewing channel on KZhead. Amazing quality, storytelling and graphics
Jason is a rare gem! Please never lose him, Hagerty.
Seeing the 190E doing donuts around the E30 is just too legendary.
You should have seen it from my perspective! I looked all calm, but I was sweating bullets having my own car do donuts like 5' from me and that absolutely PERFECT E30 M3? It's a good thing Randy is... Randy. That was AWESOME!
The COSWORTH built 190E ( not Mercedes) has Never done donuts are the real McCoy E30 M3.
@@JasonCammisa - Was Tammi watching that?
@@dlsm3s Haha no, ma'am! Bill was there, but I'm not sure he could see this from where he was. Thankfully - he'd have killed me. :)
@@SamToure8888 Cosworth developed and manufactured the cylinder head. Everything else was done by Mercedes. So "Cosworth built 190E" is wholly inaccurate.
Okay but can we just take a moment to appreciate the closed caption "bucktoothed bimmer continues burnout"? 😂
"Jason filling his Huggies" was another high point.
I was read all of them... They treat it like mistress kane from scary movie. fucked it with paper bag on his face :D
Was just about to comment that the closed caption is pure gold.
“Eww gross. Who writes this stuff?”
"Says the guy who looks like Adam Sandler"
The production value of this video alone is insane. Randy's M3 overtaking Jason's 190E on the outside is pure cinematic gold. It's better than most "movie" racing shot that I've seen in my life. Whoever filmed that shot, he deserves a bigger bonus by year end. Well done episode!
If there was a content quality indicator on KZhead, this would be Gold rated. Enjoyed every moment of this video.
This is just way too cool. The history, the footage, the incredible journalism displayed here; FUCKING BRAVO!
Journalism? There's no such thing. They're all sales people.
Every video Jason does in this series is amazing. It's rare we find people whose format and personalities meld perfectly. Well done Jason and the Hagerty team! Thanks for making this incredible content for us.
Thank you!
I hope to see Jason's work continue with Hagerty for years and that production quality stays as high!
Seriously guy, your the man. Happy “I met” you recently. And In fact, you have the physic of a Greek god. Girth brooks you are not.
Especially when there’s so much automotive content to differentiate yourself from
“professional exaggerator”
I’m speechless. This is an absolute gem of a video. Jason you should be so proud of this piece of art. Bravo.
I always wait for Randy's scenes. He's a living legend.
Those subtitles are hilarious and witty Easter eggs. So informative. And I got to be part of it all, thanks Hagerty and Jason!
Randy, It wouldn’t be a true test drive and evaluation without your input and hands behind the wheel!
@Randy Pobst, I am assuming you drove the standard M4 manual in that track and I was curious, what made it faster around the track over the M3 Comp? And which did you enjoy driving more, M3 or the M4 and what made the difference for you?
Lappin' track and talkin' smack - good to see ya, Randy!
Just wanted to speak for the car community for a moment and say we love ya Randy, and please never change..
@@bcvijasiu Save the stick! The manual made it the M4 more enjoyable for me - more driving involvement, yes. The M3 was more powerful. I will add that the manual lent a higher level of control that paid off at Thunderhill West course, but usually the higher power and quicker shifts of the M3 auto will make it quicker.
Hagerty, this whole venture you're doing is great and putting Cammisa and Randy onboard is absolutely perfect. Knowledge, personality, and skill come together in perfect harmony. I absolutely love these videos.
Thx a mill, Dan. I’m just awed at how good these Icons vids are. Jason and director Anthony Esposito (The man behind the man) are flat out brilliant.
Thank you Jason, Anthony & Hagerty team for taking auto journalism to the next level!!
Man, the work you put into the production of these videos is incredible…
they bring on Jason and casually make Hagerty the best car channel on KZhead.
So is it the end of issimi or what? Is he here permanently
@@amg863 Yeah I am wondering that too
I do recommend Fortnine, it's an equally good motorcycle channel
Funny how that works. Of all youtube car personalities, Jason warrants fan-funding the most, so he never goes away. I just don't think we could afford him. 🤣🤣 His vids are always hollywood.
i watch this for the history and savagegeese for the tech and down to earth driving reviews (and beautiful shots). pretty much all you need
“ this car vibrates less than a M3 turned off “ 😂 I’m dead
Mon it's a killer!!🤣🤣
Lol I laughed at that too and I own an M
I just caught this channel today. Did not even know it existed. No one like Jason to tell automotive history so well said....and wow, seeing Jason and Randy together again...awesome!!! 👍
Just sat down to watch ONE Icons video and 2 hours later, I have tears in my eyes and my heart is beating like I just ran a marathon. Hagerty Media is the closets thing to actually driving these cars. Thanks Jason and team.
This is absolutely brilliant. The pinnacle of motoring journalism.
I'm just happy that someone does the underrated 190e some justice finally. You have to give it to the benz, it drove faster around this track with all the worlds features and 2 doors more than the m3.
And that while the M3 was especially built to beat that 190E. Those Mercedes engineers knew what they were doing.
@@tjroelsma even the normal 190 is fantastic to drive. especially the ones with a nice 5 speed
@@tjroelsma But the M3s beat the Benzes where it counts - in DTM that is.
@@slatanek True, but Mercedes hit back an won the next season with the 190E 2.5 Evo, it's mentioned in this video. Where the M3 beat the 190E definitively was on the consumer market, but I suspect that could be down more to management not caring than Mercedes engineering not being able to compete.
...which features you talking about? 😂😂 2 electric motors for the rear windows?
This has to be the most entertaining automotive content I have ever watched on KZhead. Major props to the entire Hagerty production team for taking automotive content to the to the next level. 🔥
15:06 is my favorite part because you get some genuine good review… and then are immediately reminded that this is Jason’s show
"...7000rpm...at which point it vibrates less than M3 switched off" 😂
Unbelievable film. The subtitles were a real treat.
Glad you noticed them. Thank you!
@@JasonCammisa I just posted before I scrolled... "Make sure to turn on the captions for these, if you haven't already."
I'm guessing the 104 dislikes compared to the 11K plus likes this video received are from Porche fans?
@@Killsnapz Or Yugo....
The caption 'easter eggs' are an absolute treat
Amazing video. My only thought F80 is kinda underrated. It was definetely a true M car especially considering its lap times being 2 seconds faster than any other car in its class. It still is, one of the fastest saloons.
and beating a just 4 years older 911,, that's crazy
No. It was over rated. It’s the car that attracted all the bandwagon BMW M fans, it’s the car that started to blur the hard line between M and non M cars and the car that made true BMW enthusiasts upset and leave the brand and to further push them into Porsche.
@@defineivan what do you mean? both in terms of power and in terms of cosmetics, the F80 M3 has all the same features that M cars used to have over the regular M-sport..if anything it actually sports more than what the E30 or E46 M3s had? like i dont understand this comment at all. what is it that would make it "blur the hard line between M and non M", that the previous gens did not?
F80 is not a true M car. It has an M badge, but it is not a true M car
One of the best car videos I've watched in a while. It's 2 years old, surprised I haven't seen it earlier
Same here 👍
This is one of the greatest KZhead videos I've ever seen. Finally, the car FortNine.
Dude FortNine is the absolute best. I just wish they gave us longer videos 😩 Also, I take it you ride since you watch F9?
@@danielrosas7550 I also watch F9 and my only experience with motorcycles is that one little old 50cc stood in our garage, when I was kid. Jason is on par with Ryan and both creators looks fabolous!
Check out Savage Geese, they’re pretty good too. FortNine level quality content!
@@ivanvillarreal8804 Savagegeese too his stuff slaps!
Man… you just nail it if Jason and Ryan have a baby….😱😱😱😱😱😁
This is the most professional and yet the most watchable/interesting car show ever. greater than Top Gear i would say
This is good. But it's an old school mid 2000's top gear rip off.
comparing it to the new top gear isn't setting the bar very high ;-P
Spits in the car was pretty disgusting. And his driving sucks..and he's wrong about the looks. It's gonna also age really well.
@@implive17 not every interesting car show is automatically a top gear rip off 🙄
You better mean the current Top Gear. Nothing is better than the previous gen Top Gear. It spawned all of this
Without a doubt one of the best car videos I have seen in nearly a decade. Just incredible stuff. The perfect balance of fun, education, awesome driving and chemistry. Really well done!
I had the opportunity to go out to a BMW racing event held by a local dealership, it was a tester program for corporate, (invite only) BMW USA out at summit point raceway... I got to race the latest gen M3 and M5 competitions. I fell madly in love with the overall driving experience and pure performance these cars give to the driver. It was amazing how hard I could push that M3 in the corners and it just kept right up with everything I was doing. And when it comes to drifting, one of the most confidence inspiring drifts I’ve ever done in a car.
"Its as good to drive as it is horrible to look at" thats the perfect slogan for their maketing departement
Bmw knows business...every M3 since sold more than the E30 M3..No Doubt the G would outsell the F. Ps. I owned both the E30 and the E36 M3.
Haha, that's true. Wonderful car but boy is it ugly
@@fkrr5 Have you seen the 1939 Bmw 328 ?... many would have cried foul with that kidney ...only time will tell with the G80s Ps. I have a feeling the race car will be Dominant on the track!
@@SamToure8888 do you work for bmw?
@@SamToure8888 working for bmw?
The future of Top Gear lives on KZhead! Wow
Good call!
TopGear is long dead. People need to let it go...
@@dumbestoyster it might be dead but, in its good old days, it has definitely set a standard, I mean, THIS is what we expect from a car show, not a boring sequence of numbers or tech specs that will never meet the streets…
@@Berchol If anyone can revitalize it, it is Chris Harris himself. I suggest giving it another watch. They scrapped the previous guys. Much much better with Harris onboard.
Man I feel less fortunate to have found this channel too late unquestionably the best! Thank you Jason!
Suddenly you've got the best automotive content on KZhead today! thanks to the team and Jason ❤ Please keep it on
The new 3-series is the size of the 7-series when the original M3 came out.
I think its even bigger
much much much much MUCH bigger.
Consider the Mini!
@@tracklizard4018 not really
@@creatineenjoyer7345 Look at a modern 2 series and compare it to e28 or something
No wonder it took 2 months for 1 Icons episode... Cuzz the quality is that is iconic
Top notch video!, hope your efforts are paying well.. one of the best motoring videos i have seen.. congrats
I love that even the captions have something hilarious to add to it. Hagerty absolutely slays it with Jason & Randy!
Hear me out: The M2 is now what the M3 used to be. My dream garage would have an E30 M3 and M2 CS parked side by side.
If you ever achieve that, put a time-line sticker on the ground in front of them 😂
Youre exactly right, and that’s intentional. If you adjust for inflation the new m4 cost about the same as all previous models have through time. This makes the m2 a cut price hero (despite it being a 50k car). The entire market has shifted up a sector, and m5 costs what used to be Ferrari money and it puts down what used to be Ferrari numbers. M2, c43, a45, s3 etc, they’ve already created this new undercard of really high value street fighters.
dream bigger boss
@@Maconyoutube hehe 50 grand thats cheap same car here in india is about 100 grand😭
@@pinacolaaadas go goal by goal, there's no point attempting to go straight for a Veyron. An M car is a very reasonable first objective, once reached you set the next one 😉
One of the best 30 minute segments I've ever watched, thanks for this amazing content Hagerty!!
I didnt even notice it was 30 minutes long!
Shame most of it was factually incorrect.....
@@raycyst8037 Can you elaborate?
Tenth time watching in past 2 years! One of the best productions out there. Great job Jason and the entire Hagerty team!
This gotta be the best history channel for us gearheads
goodness gracious. this feels like watching a movie.
awesome quality content. enjoyed every second of the video!
You excited for Test Drive Unlimited Solar Crown?
In the vintage race shots I love the XR4TI images! Turbo 4 or Cosworth V6 something so almost competitive about it and I love the look so boxy double wing widebody look
By far the most entertaining and educative automotive KZhead series; from the subtitles to the edits to the content. All time favorite m3 is an E46. Always had a negative bias on the new m3 but seeing this now in terms of performance, I must say, I'm convinced of its capability.
the closed captions you guys do are amazing; love that little bit of extra effort and comedy.
Thanks. It's also one of the most fun things to write. I get to make fun of myself. :)
The videos just keep getting better. This film is definitely Top Gear level. Jason is knowledgable with a great personality, what more could you want in a content producer. Can't wait to see anything he does in the future.
Top Gear felt so fake a lot of the time. Though some silly driving, it wasn't fake.
This is better than TG as far as I'm concerned. Amazing that this stuff is available for free.
U mean the good old gold top gear, right?🤣
Seriously one of the greatest KZhead videos I have ever watched. amazing work from everyone who put this together.
By FAR the best car videos on KZhead. Do more !
Seriously the best content out right now. Hats off to the whole crew.
There is NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING nowhere near this quality of content anywhere. I'd pay a subscription service only for this. I can't say if Jason is underrated or not, but I do know that he will go down as one of the greatest car journalists.
Speaks very fair and informative!!
Most people overlook that the writing is incredible. The script is fast paced, informative, light and entertaining.
You guys have the absolute best and most dramatic photography, writing, visual direction, and editing quality I've yet to see on this platform. Please keep it coming. And also please do a Revelations video on the Lancia Delta Integrale Evo II. Lol
A lesson in history and cinematography and the thrill of you two racing on track and so nicely done and man I am running out of words here.... Brilliant content
I just want to acknowledge the professionalism and the quality of this video, yet they put an absolute hilarious tumbnail as if it was a joke😂
More Randy! More Randy...!
Racing without glasses… did he get lasek? Lol
as a G82 M4 driver this video was made beautifully i loved it thank you so much for the content.
Great job Jason, I’m a big fan from your Car and Driver days with Johnny L. So glad to see you back and with Randy too!!! You make me so proud to be a self proclaimed car enthusiast guy every time I watch any of your car videos sir. Yeah let’s go!!! You are an absolute Genuine bro 😎 👍🏾
The e36 m3 was a MASSIVE leap in performance over the e30m. Yes even the us spec. Not sure why you'd skip over it. That's pretty lame.
Exactly....and e36 raced plenty. Not true to say that subsequent models weren't raced.
@@chrismartin5870 still very fast car. There is video its beating a 440i (B58). Its even fast as a E46 M3, due to less weight
I love the E36 but they perfected it with the E46 that's why
The best M3 after the E46 imo
E36 M3 is used to being the red-headed step child. Missed out on the euro engine in the US too. That's okay, still a masterful car and wonderful to drive :)
Skipping over the E36?? That’s my favorite
It’s absolutely the best!
It's the perfect sports car. So incredibly fun to drive.
he even skipped the E90 M3 😭
E36 was all I was looking for...I don't know if I'd say it's the most powerful, but they had perfect 50/50 weight distribution and it felt really really good. Plus they're the best looking. e: I mean, they're definitely not the most powerful lol
@Louai Amrouche Sorry to be correcting you because I can see English is your second language, but I think you're confusing two idioms: "black sheep" and "dark horse". Dark horse is the one you want ;)
I loved my E30 M3, as much as one can love a car It was a part of you, perfectly balanced, beautiful sound, even my mum loved to drive it A very special car
I love history and I love cars. This was a treat to watch! absolutely fabulous content!!
5 Stars from Germany for this mind-blowingly good review / movie / documentation with emotion on the top of the richter scale. Also Randy was a great surprise - awesome movie mate! Thank you so much Jason!!!!
The cheeky captions added a whole other dimension to an already amazing piece of journalism! This was epic! (yes, epic again!)
Jason! You make the absolute best motorsports history videos ever. Thank you!
this is definitive car content. Jason was always amazing and pairing him with randy is perfect. motortrend had no idea what they had with these guys..
I absolutely LOVE Randy content. He's so great and Jason is an amazing host.
Want some good randy content, watch him race an m5 in the early 90s. Theres footage on KZhead
@@andrewgarcia3136 has he always been as vocal? Thank you so much btw.
These are the best video on the KZhead right now. the storytelling is beyond
Great review!! Jason your writing and driving capabilities are one of the best in the business! Informative and funny presenting the tech , the data and driving review, your interactions with Randy Probst is hysterical, keep up the great work!
i felt every vibe from the drivers & sound of the engines. now i know m3's origin. thanks hagerty. i enjoyed every second of the video. congrats!
Unbelievable production! You guys must have LOVED these days in the office. I wish Bill Arnold could have donated an E36 for the mix.
I must admit Hagerty and Jason just keep raising the ante on this platform. Love it 👍
Dude, your narrative style coupled with your editing skills and sound crafting makes this video just OFF THE CHARTS! WOWZERS. 3 thumbs up
Jason is my favorite car reviewer. The quality of these are great. Jason and Randy are the best.
if you take out the speech and the Mercedes out of the intro, the intro would make a great BMW ad.
It’s like you got his point ;)
I cannot express enough how amazing this channel is with Jason. I literally feel like I’m watching a PPV event. Thank you Jason and the rest of the team for this.
I absolutely love these videos!! Jason Cammisa is plain amazing, informative, entertaining. Kudos
All your videos are absolute gold, Jason (and Randy!), but this one might be the top. Thoroughly enjoyed every millisecond, and I’m probably going to watch it again tomorrow. And maybe the next day too.
This is one of the best pieces of automotive journalism I’ve ever watched. Outstanding work.
Hagerty winning the quirky cinematic automotive media, the big intro AND the caption game hard.
I love these type of videos because so many people (myself included) have no clue about the history of these cars and how they came about. great stuff
Absolutely LOVE the production on this. And Cammisa, you have been HOLDING back your hosting skills for an opportunity like this!!! Congrats, taking it to Motortrend and giving it to them up the A#%! Yes, they are pooping in their pants right now.
Hagerty's new content is excellent overall, with Jason's being the best. And this episode somehow took this series to another level! Insightful, educational, humorous, and fun at the same time. Nice job!
Thank you for the work that you do. This is an amazing film!
I always love watching Hagerty vids. Great info, engineering focused, no nonsense approach with good video and editing. MB is crazy for killing the program. But, some AMG cars are nuts today, if anyone can afford them, oh and to fix them.
As an bmw M3 enthusiast that owns an E30, E36, E46 M3, I wonder that this video completely ignores the phenomenal E36 M3.
Probably a time thing, but IMO they should have at least spent 1 min on it. Maybe they had one lined up and it didn't make it on shoot day for some reason?
Probably hard to find an EU spec one and whilst there is merit to the US model for owners, it doesn't really do the concept of the video justice.
Man this guy is good. The visuals next level. Sitting in front of the Mercedes with those old lights on and watching on that CRT TV.. Someone's doing an excellent job with the cinematography here, it looks like watching a jerry bruckheimer movie not a KZhead video, plus the excitement of this guy seems genuine authentic
Cant beat new and old school in one video, great work
Just found my new favorite YT Motorsports channel. These videos are amazing. Can’t wait to see the current content if this is 2 years ago
22:33 "closed course, professional exaggerator" hahahah
coffee came out of my nouse when I read that 🤣
This production gave me goosebumps. And seeing two legends on the same episode was just perfect
And narration!
Great explanation of the M car's lineage. As an e-46, e90, and e30 (favorite) this was a killer piece of entertainment, thanks Hag
+1. A former employer in the '80s bought a new Merc 190E 2.3 -16. . That MB 2.3 -16 was very special - to the boss anyway. . Herr Jason Cammisa; Your video shorts are tier one! .. Top Shelf. ..
I feel like I've already watched this, because I caught the TST last week and I just finished the latest Carmudgeon episode. Still going to watch the video, gotta support this MOVIE of a youtube video. If it were any longer though, we'd need an intermission. I don't think we can mention that opening shot enough, it's pretty rad.