Belt grinder frame tubes - DIY or buy?
2023 ж. 7 Жел.
118 179 Рет қаралды
Thank you for watching!
Videos about removing seams
Next Level Carpentry - die grinder burr in a block of wood:
• How to Quickly Remove ...
Fireball Tool - cutter pulled by threaded rod:
• Tips To Remove Weld Fr...
More videos about my belt grinder:
• Tilting belt grinder
Plans for my belt grinder:
jerswoodshop.com/gen-2-belt-gr...
Patreon:
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I should have mentioned seamless / DOM tubing. It’s hard to find, not available in all regions, and expensive, but if you’re able to get it and afford it then it could be a good option! I haven’t ever used it so I’m not sure how the precision compares to regular tubing.
Thats what I use here, is cold drawn tube. comes in lengths of 3200mm in stead of the 6000mm a regular comes in.
Woohoo! Jer is back.
A piece of advice I learned from Tom Lipton's book is to not start your welds at the tack. It liquifies the tack, essentially letting go of that small section. When you weld into the tack, your initial weld has frozen by the time you reach your tack.
Really obvious now that you say it, but I never thought of that! Thank you!!
Wow This is a great tip! Thank you!@@Jer_Schmidt
Exactly right
You're so humble. you could have just said "I'm right" but you went above and beyond to explain alternative methods. Top notch.
Honestly I’ve always thought that square tube would be the easier method but after watching this I’m fully convinced that welding the tube is the way to go, great explanation!
More videos please. The world needs them!
Can confirm the irregularities in SHS, I spent hrs cutting and rewelding my receivers to make them work. Your design is superior without a doubt, and I’m a qualified steel fabricator/ welder for over 35 yrs! Good job shutting down the naysayers mate.
Thanks, Jer, for sharing this. While DOM tubing would be pretty accurate internally, it's not as readily available and more expensive... and this project doesn't call for much tube length. So, from a practicality standpoint, the home welded tube wins in my book. 😃
Laser welded Tubing is more accurate than DOM tubing. Largely due to welded tubing using bent sheet metal which is extremely accurately, and DOM being drawn over a mandrel which will wander over it's length.
I'm not a maker but I watch all your videos. Not sure why, but I do enjoy them.
Your grinder is on my list of things I want for the shop. When I have the time and fuds to put towards it. Great job on the design.
Always love to see a fresh video pop up from you Jer!
Good to see you posting again Jer! Another option, is if you happen to have a metal supplier, or trailer supply vendor in your area that carries square tubing meant for building truck receiver hitches. Basically square tube, that already has that annoying seam weld removed from the interior. You'd still have to dog ear the corners of the solid bar. I built my grinder per your plans using the welded flat bar, and it was no trouble really. Great job on the plans BTW, I love my grinder!
I thought about mentioning this in the video, but the problem is 1.5” hitch tube doesn’t exist, at least not that I could find. 1.25” is too weak and 2” is too bulky to fit my design, so it’s not relevant.
I think that was a clear enough reason for a home made box section jer and a pretty cool time saver too
Thanks for sharing, nice to see you working again. Charles
My eyes lit up when I saw a new video. So thankful!
Also using the tube might prevent you from having an attachment that can be rotated 90 degrees, if the inner tube opening's cross-section isn't square enough.
I was just thinking about your channel and the grinder! Thanks for the update.
Hope to see you on more now I love your precision work it's relaxing and satisfying
I wish you would make more videos. You were a favorite go to person for great videos. Have a blessed holiday season
Make more videos! Keep em coming 🎉
Keep making videos its always a pleasure watching them...
What a perfectly timed video! I just bought your plans and am going through this exact quandary.
I may never actually build one (but may eventually lol), but I just purchased the Gen 2 grinder and attachment bundle to support you and your channel (as well as your modular box plans in the past). Thank you again for sharing your awesome inventions, talents, creativity and vids. You are one of my top KZheadrs.
Glad you're back! Hope all is well
Love the videos you post. I always look forward the notification that another is out. You do terrific, practical work. Your version of the belt sander remains, IMO, the best, most versatile version on the internet.
Still have and LOVE my grinder from your plans. It’s sooo good
I built my grinder from your plans but I used the square tube knowing about the seam. I do have a milling machine to cut a groove in the solid bar and that is what I did. During the build I realized it would be so much easier to build this machine if I already had one completed. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
I think you can get seamless tube just like DOM round tube. Or just use DOM instead of square tube. It would be more expensive of course. One thing you forgot to mention is always use cold rolled flat bar if you go with the welding. Hot roll has a lot of mill scale and is never straight and smooth like cold rolled. Other than that, I know where to go when I decide to build my own. Thanks for the upload Jerry, I am a fan
Great video, insight and advice, thanks Jer!
Alway a humbling pleasure to watch you work my friend!
Thank you very much for this video!
So I purchased the plans,, Wow the level of detail and information is 2nd to None. Its like a Brilliant guide to build a great Grinder. Im very proud to say I built it and yes its home made and Its Jer's Design. It took some time but well worth it. Fantastic Kit.
Jer, I built your design a couple of years ago. Your method of building the tubes from flat bar is the right method. The weld stitches are not a problem. I’m one of those who attempted to fill in the gaps with more welding but I stopped midstream because the tube began to tighten onto the square bar, probably from warping. As completed, it all worked well. If I continue to dress it up later, bondo is a reasonable option.
Bondo is likely to crack with vibration. A better alternative is something like Isopon p40. it's fine glass fibre strands in epoxy resin. Same sort of consistency as Bondo but sticks better and is not prone to cracking. Just before it sets hard use a sharp knife to carve the edges and sand when dry.
Nice overview of the pro's and con's.. Thanks Jer ! ATB...
Great video, Jer. Totally believe your tube method is the way to go.
Genius and creativity👍
Glad to see you after so long.
I like the make your own tube option
would love more videos on the cabinet system!!
Great update video. I plan on building your grinder very soon as I happened across the exact motor VFD combo that you use for a great price.
It is one of my favorite channels that pass on knowledge with quality, congratulations for your excellent work and motivation that you provide to us, mere spectators. Thank you for your inspirational content. Stay strong and blessed. Always looking forward to the next video.
I 100% agree home-made is always better, excellent information, thanks for sharing..
Pretty cool, you are talented.
Really interesting process indeed, Jer! Awesome work! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊 And happy holidays!
definatly make your own tube, is the way too go, thanks for sharing
an excellent month for you. Thank you for this inspiring video. I follow your channel and log in every week just to see if there's anything new, thank you for being an excellent source of knowledge and inspiration. Thank you for everything.
Cool! You are back!!! Nice Video.
You’re the best! Miss you
Great follow up to the grinder project. :o)
Yes a Jer vid .... Nice one Jer... peace
thank you my friend
Very good point.
I really like what you made Belt grinder🎉🎉🎉
Love his videos
Function over fashion. The precision is worth it.
We made the frame tube from two pieces of square root angle iron.
When I made my grinder from your plans, I ended up having to use tubing instead of solid bar. No one around me had it. The only downside to the tubing is some vibrations when doing some serious grinding. Otherwise the plans you got are awesome! Recommend them to anyone
I'll try "Stuff that's home made " for two hundred Alex😄 Cheers
The 3rd option is to get seamless tubing. And then knock off the 4 corners. Either way great update sir!
Just found your channel and Subscribed. Nice job
I bought the Schmidt plans 3 or 4 years ago, and built two of them. The first one, I followed the plans to the letter, even having a friend machine the hinges and some other parts so that it would be perfect. It turned out absolutely precise, and is way more refined than some of the commercially available belt grinders. I actually welded mine with a TIG welder for pretty beads, and had the entire thing powder coated, then added some hot rod pin stripe stickers (I tried hand striping, but it looked horrible) and then clear coated the whole thing. It was very pretty to look at. The second one was for a friend who wanted it built on the tightest budget possible. I used square tube that he had on hand, and hand cut the parts I had previously machined. It all worked as expected, but the accessory bar/tube fitment was sloppy and out of square, just as Jer mentioned. Now, my friend didn't care because he wasn't using the grinder for precision, but for down and dirty gorilla fabrication and as an alternative to a bench grinder. The moral of the story is... it is faster, easier, and more accurate making the tubes from flat stock. Just thought I would confirm the statements in the video, as someone who built it both ways.
When Jer said pretty looking, I thought of Tig Welding the plates/parts. If you have the skill. Stack of dimes welds would look very good and show off your welding skills.
I think you are right on Jer. Personally I think the skip also shows the work done to make it along with the better fit up. But as you said, it just personal preference. 🙂 Great video and thanks for sharing.
I've built your grinder earlier this year and the welding of those tubes isn't as much work as one might think. Just go with Jer's plans, it works well. Wouldn't want to miss the grinder from the shop.
Gr8 build
I sure do miss your vids.... 😀
PS it is stress-free most other build shows is like watching an episode of red and green😅
Having built your grinder with the limited welding skills I have, the manufactured tube is by far the easier option. For what it's worth, I build a temporary belt grinder body out of plywood with the wheels I purchased for the final product so I could grind all the curve parts instead of trying to angle grind/file them into shape.
That sounds quite sketchy hahs
I modified your design to build it with the materials I had, and made it using square tubing...I left the seam and haven't had any issues...it all depends on what level of precision you're aiming for and comfortable with
I like the make your own tube option. If you continue to step weld around the pieces you can make the welds complete and look nice if you are careful at the weld tie ins.
I did this on my first Gen 1 belt grinder, but I’m not good enough at welding to make it look nice. Someone who’s good at welding could for sure though! It looks REALLY nice if you grind a 30° chamfer into after welding it fully, but that pretty much requires already having a belt grinder.
@@Jer_Schmidt What are the pitfalls of fully welding the seams? If you do the welding in a few sessions so you don't overheat the metal and warp it, is there anything else to be cautious off? I often see seams not fully welded, and I assume its due to potential warpage, material/time usage, and the fact that the parts are strong enough with only half the seam welded. But, I always think it looks so much better to have a fully welded seam, and it doesn't take that much more time or material to do; I'm a very novice welder, however, so I imagine there's something else that I'm missing in the equation.
@@SwagmanMcGee Yeah I don’t know of any other pitfalls. Fully welding them on Gen 1 worked fine, just be sure to keep the heat evenly distributed and it shouldn’t warp. The only reason I don’t fully weld them anymore is because it’s not necessary for strength, and uses more wire, gas, electricity, & time than it’s worth to me.
@@Jer_Schmidt Dope, thanks for the insight !
Personally Id go diy for this project
I built a 2x72 from Jers plans and one from House Made kit. Here is my comparison, it relates to this video. HM uses tubing with the seams removed. (already removed in the kit, nice). All of the HM tubing is Pre-made .025 wall. Brian House makes it easy , Jer makes it industrial. Adjusting the tool/platen arms is the difference. JS tubing, once made, is MUCH smoother to adjust. For me, it is worth the extra time to make Jers. Jers is an industrial machine, IMO. I am a blacksmith btw, so I grind lots of metal. JS machine is in the shop, BH is in the garage. I gets much use from both. I should also mention that the JS recommended motor is 3x more $, at least. I am sure that influences performance. The balance of the HM machine, when tilting, is helpful, you really have to muscle the JS. I love the JS design of supporting the tool rest directly under the platen (no flexing), a rock solid grinding rest. If I did it once more I would do the JS plan. I just bought the small wheel kit from BH so I still think well of it. Jeremy, what the hell does that thing weigh once completed?
Thanks for writing this up, and thank you for the positive review!! Really glad to hear you like it. Here are the exact weights of mine: Power Unit: 56 lbs, 101 lbs with recommended motor Platen Attachment: 16.5 lbs Table Holder: 16.5 lbs Fixed Table: 8.5 lbs Adjustable Angle Table: 10 lbs Small Wheel Attachment: 16.5 lbs Contact Wheel Attachment: 9.5 lbs (without contact wheel)
I was just telling my cousin this grinder is THE grinder last night
that looks nice i have no idea why i watch all these videos i dont even have a single tool that can cut metal harder than aluminium besides an angle grinder but yeah metal
Hey Jer, I built your grinder and its awesome. I noticed you're using a plug from grinder to VFD (brilliant).
Thank you! I share the VFD between the grinder and drill press, so the plug lets me easily move it between them.
Another problem with welded tubing is that the inside flats are never exactly 90 degrees to each other, and the inner curved corners all have slightly different radii.
1000%, build the socket tube! And to add another pitfall, a random spatter blob or wall thickness/ I.D. variance in the middle of the tube and your screwed. Not to mention you can't rotate the mod'd solid arm with out needing to mill all 4 sides of it. Huge PITA! And realistically, you could probably do half the welds and it would still be plenty.
8:46 Welding around a bunch of paper boxes is a great way to create a smoldering fire that won't start burning until you have left the room
With the square bar absorbing all the heat, it's highly unlikely the paper will even be discolored.
I bought your plans when they first came out with intent to build this. Life has other plans for me. But at any rate, you think 12 steps ahead when most of us think 4 steps ahead, so I trust your judgement on what works. And when you have designed and made something, then found a little tweak to it, you let us know.
I bought your original plans however here in Australia the belts are almost impossible to get so I haven't done anything with it yet. Love the improvements and starting to really get a good workshop set up. Looking at buying the updated metric version soon with all attachments. keep up the awesome work. Your design is by far the best I've seen anywhere on the market and that's in the DIY designs available. There's nothing that comes close even if you were to spend 10G here in Australia
The Sandpaper Man, Artisan Supplies and 84 Engineering are three places I can name off the top of my head that carry belts. Not even close to impossible to get :)
I have a small, yet strange project. I am very curious how you’d go about fabricating it. It’s another case of “nobody makes it, so I’ll have to make it”. Brilliant work, young man!
another issue is having to modify the bar of any other adapters or fixtures you decided to attach later. The home made tube is "one and done".
I used receiver/hitch stock and that made it MUCH EASIER
Nah, I frequent a steel supply store that has that on display, and sliding two of them together confirmed that there is WAY too much slop for *this* application. I welded the tube per the instructions and have no regrets.
Would still love to see what you do with a CNC design.....
Jer, what about using a wider flat bar for two of the sides so that you can overlap the corners thus having a nicer weld? Though that probably adds an additional step of grinding a bevel on the mating corners to get better weld penetration. I think you did a good job of summarizing the issue. It depends on where you want to spend your time and the tools you have. Or spend your money on DOM tubing but still have to grind off the corners of the bar.
I use 3/8” flatbar partly for this reason; it gives you at least a little corner to weld in (unlike if you use 1/4” flatbar, where they’ll be flush and you need to bevel both parts to get a good weld).
@@Jer_SchmidtlI
It would cost a bit more in both time and material as you would need to cut 2 pieces of one width and 2 pieces another wider width. Even if using a plasma table or bandsaw to cut the pieces it will cost more in time material and waste. You would just cut the wider ones leaving about 1/4" short of the full overlap width and then that will give you when fitting the pieces a 1/8 area on each side length to place weld material, which will making it's own rounded corners. No need to grind a bevel first and you get the desired square corners inside too. You still need to step weld it to keep from warping the steel so you are not saving any time or effort there. It would be easier and cheaper to just continue to go around making short welds by continuing the process demonstrated. With a little care and practice the tie ins to existing welds can be rather seamless making for a nice looking full weld.
I'm in the middle of building your fantastic grinder. 1) I notice the gussets between the legs and main tube. Do they help with machine performance? 2) Your grinder table is very shiny. How did you get it so shiny and how do you keep it shiny?
1) No. This was my first prototype of Gen 2, and I added those gussets because I thought they would be necessary, but they’re not. They only add complexity and risk warping the frame when you weld them on, so I deleted them from the final design. 2) That’s the result of some experiments with the surface grinder attachment. So that table is surface ground perfectly flat and square to the post, within ~0.002”. I’ll show how I did it in a future video about the surface grinder, when that design is ready. I just keep a bit of oil on it to prevent rust.
You should put about 3 welds on each corner, not 9. This is not a part that experiences much force. If the appearance bugs you, you can apply Bondo or epoxy putty. Overwelding is a the bane of amateur metalworkers. We use steel with a tensile strength of 70K psi, and we put huge welds on things that might experience 50 pounds of force on a really bad day. It causes distortion and wastes time, wire, and electricity. You can hang about a ton and a half from a 5/16" bolt before it starts to deform, so imagine how much tension a weld an inch and a half can take.
A belt grinder experiences very little stress during its life. You can make a perfectly fine grinder that will last a hundred years from pine two-by-fours.
There’s a huge difference between plastic deformation and ultimate strength. It’s true that I could use 1/4 as much metal & just tack weld it together and it would likely never break, but it will be absolutely miserable to use because of deflection, chatter, and vibration.
Bought my plans from you 2 years ago and just put the last coat on the cabinet today. Still have the VSD stand to build. BTW, where's your trolley/cabinet gone?
Is 1.5 inch tube on the inside gonna flex at all over such a short distance?
Hi Jer, I could not quite follow your reasons for using solid bar instead of hollow for the inner bar? Would hollow tube not be much more rigid, and would that not be desirable? One day I will build this, and I am looking forward to it!
To be clear, I get that hollow tube off the shelf is not as straight - but the DIY tube from flat bar is evidently so quick, I would be tempted to follow the same method to make an inner tube.
I assume solid bar will be more rigid than hollow, it’s the maximum amount of material that can fit the space… but I’m not an engineer; is there something I’m missing?
@@Jer_Schmidt No, you missed nothing, I did (and I am an engineer… 🙇🏻♂️) The confusion in my head came from the fact that almost all the resistance to deformation comes from the outer layer of a material, so _for the same mass_ a hollow structure is much stronger than a solid one. So perhaps you would save a few $ in material cost, and your back might be grateful if you move those bits around a lot, but the solid bar is not going to be an issue in terms of deformation - and possibly dampen the vibrations better as a bonus. My apologies for not thinking before writing! And thanks for the videos!
De las mejroes para mach3 son las CSMIO, yo tengo una Tomatech2005 y va excelente, a mi me costó $630 con codificadores de valir absoluto y de 5 ejes simultaneos... semajente la GSK980Mdc...
If you’re concerned about heat warping, you could pick up a copper plate and clamp it to the piece. It’s not that expensive an it pulls heat out really well.
DIY is clearly the pragmatic way. I wonder about using a torch or induction heater to warm a piece up just the right way that you could drive a form tool through and expand it to suit though...
I don’t have any of the equipment to try that but I would love to see someone do it!
I tried to make the tubing with an arc welder and warped it with too much heat (arc has never been my strong suit). After a ton of sanding to get the bar to fit through, I abandoned the effort, purchased tubing, and used a belt file (like a mini belt grinder) to get rid of the seam and angle grinder to knock off the corners on the bar to fit the tube. That done, the problem I have now is that the purchased tube is so much lighter than the home-made bar, the weight of the motor is not offset nearly as much and my grinder wants to flop to horizontal. I wish I'd had the 220v MiG welder back then that I have now, but it is what it is... Make the tubes if you are able, people!
This is useful feedback, thanks for sharing!
@@Jer_Schmidt cheers!
have you decided on a surface grinding attachment for this belt grinder ?
I’ve been developing one for years, and it’s getting really close! I finally have a concept that works super well, it just needs some final refinements. The belt grinder tables that I was using in the video were ground flat & smooth with it, so you can see the mirror finish it produces. The 6x8” table is flat to within 0.003”.
@@Jer_Schmidt waiting for a built video, your grinder is still hands down the best I found till date.
to my mind if you are making something tah needs to be precise then you are doing it by far the best way, it also looks like it was made properly, flat bar wins for me.
Great video, is the square bar hardened? Mild steel?
Mild steel (1018 cold rolled)
Jer, how ya been ?
Honestly I'd have made 2, both fuklly welded, then use one when grinding one on belt, then other one. All clean looking, and you can loan one to friend to do same with less work.
Hi Jer. I looked at your plans on Etsy. Do you have a DXF version so I could plasma cut many of the parts. let me know if that's available or not. Thanks
Yes, the plans come with DXFs for CNC cutting.
If you used flat 2 flat bars the same width as the square bar, and 2 flat bars as wide as the thickness of 2 flat bars plus the width of the square bar, you could butt weld the seam full length, then grind the welds flush. After beveling the appropriate edges to be welded, of course. 😊
Yep. I do it this way to save the work of beveling, since the little offset creates a corner to weld in. (Also because 2.25” flatbar is hard to get / nonexistent). You can still weld them fully and grind them off at 30° for a really clean look, but the 30° chamfer is best done with a belt grinder…
@Jer_Schmidt Agreed! Your method is the best for strength and speed, no doubt about it. Thanks for a great channel, Jer!