SONG 1: "Byakugan" by Wayfloe
open.spotify.com/track/0jzUtV...
Twitter: / thatspaceninja
Instagram: / friendlyspaceninja
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Edited by Anthony Caraballo
/ @ajcaraballo95
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
2:56 The Early Days
8:47 The Peak
13:25 Beginning of the Problems
24:45 The Big Shift
27:51 The Fall From Grace
39:11 The Ending
46:33 A Dying Franchise
I think the show fell apart when fans realized the loop the story was in. Find new settlement, deal with some walkers, introduce new bad guy, kill at least one beloved character to really hammer in the fact the bad guy is the bad guy, drag on the war with the bad guy, kill at least one more beloved character, final battle with the bad guy, move on to find new territory because walkers just decided to show up out of nowhere, repeat process.
This 💯
Exactly this.
Called it!
All in the woods or in small towns…
I realized this by S3, and I didn’t understand how people got so hooked into this show.
I think it’s fitting that a zombie show lived longer than it should’ve
😛😂🤣🤣🤣
Under rated comment!!
I've long told people "The walking dead franchise is a shambling corpse of it's former self." there is some sort of poetic irony in that lol
LOL
LMAO that's just clever
The fact that carl survived 2 bullets yet randomly gets bitten and dies. That irritated me so much. At least give him a better death than that.
If only Scott Gimple thought about that.
That was their biggest mistake. Carl’s comic storyline hadn’t even started and they killed him off half a season before he would have been the main character, his absence was felt 10x more when Rick left
To add insult to injury, Siddiq, the very person Carl died for gets taken out by an undercover Whisper rendering Carl's sacrifice as pointless.
When negan wasn't eliminated and instead became a full time member of the "good guys" the show ended for me.
ikr, that wasn't logic at all. Storywriters would rather keep the popular character than kill him off like in the earlier seasons.
I agree especially when they literally had several chances just to kill him. Once the 'Neegan' group was done, his character wasnt relevant. So keep him alive for....reasons?? smh
It happens in the comics too? That's literally just negan's story and if the show had been from his POV from the beginning you would be singing a different tune. And in all fairness to the writers negan was literally the only good character left in season 10 and 11 even Daryl has been watered down to this shell of his original character to a point where his spin off doesn't even make sense. Negans really the only character that got a good arc and as someone who loved Glenn I firmly believe negan has earned his redemption from that act at least. He still does bad things but literally every character does Maggie abandoned her people for years and endangered her and glenns baby bc she couldn't suck it up and deal with negan rotting in prison. Michonne abandons her children in the middle of a war that she thought they were losing bc she found evidence of Rick being alive and although kind of understandable she still abandons her children during a very dangerous time and a very nonsensical time as well. Show died after they killed Carl off for shock value and bc they didn't wanna pay Chandler Riggs more bc he grew up. The entire rest of season 8 just feels like something is missing and all soul left the show for seasons 9 to 11. And not to mention the person Carl died for gets choked out and killed not even 2 seasons later for yet again shock value and he doesn't even fight back. Man wasn't even vital to the story he fucked Rosita and that was about it he dies and she forgets about it him in one episode 😂
@@macksunRick believed Carl was right and wanted to make an example of negan that's why he doesn't kill him. As to why the others don't I have no fucking clue I agree it's dumb as shit that they don't but negan's character arc genuinely is the only good thing that came from it lol Edit: They could've fixed this all with better writing but they were too busy killing off the few remaining characters that people actually like then adding horrible replacements to only kill them too and repeat the same process until their entire audience actively hates every character that isn't like fucking Daryl or something
At least negan had some funny lines.
Killing off Carl for shock value was beyond stupid. Especially since he is the ENTIRE reason Rick has for living, and also in the comics he survived.
Didn't the actor not want to do the show anymore? If that's true then it wasn't really for shock value
@@latima123ify Actually the actor Chandler Riggs bought a house close to the set to continue the show when he was abruptly fired. He apparently paid a pretty penny for it too. His dad was pissed abt it on social media.
Also (allegedly) Scott Gimple was behind the idea of killing Carl off. I remember at the time ppl were so mad, there was even a petition to get Gimple removed from the TWD.
@@kkaugustine1958 Mind you, the entire comic run carl survived and was the one who end off the entire series. idk why gimple still runs the show after firing Chandler over giving him a pay rise bc he turned 18...
@rob This is what I'm sure they wanted people to think, but no, they blind sided Chandler Riggs.
Crazy to think how TWD and GOT were the two biggest things in television for almost a decade, and because of how bad they messed both of those shows up, absolutely nobody talks about them anymore.
yes, what they are missing is the people who are fans decades later.
And compare those 2 with breaking bad, which was a consistently good show from 1st to last season
@@KZheadIsTwitter2.0 I wouldn’t say all of the episodes were good, season 1 was boring as fuck, a lot of filler episodes in season 3-4. Only when Gus and Jesse become a duo it gets good
The only way HBO will be able to redeem itself from the character assassination of Daenerys Targaryen is to bring her back on that Jon Snow spin off nobody asked for. As for the hype, they pulled a surprising feat with the first season of House of the Dragon. It was actually preety good and made me remind of GoT first seasons.
@@user-wi9hv2pb2q It hasn't been decades yet dawg, and both shows already have a pretty low remaining fanbase :P
Chandler Riggs didn’t find out he was going to die until the episode he gets bit. It said in his script that Carl was frightened, which confused chandler because this is CARL, he wouldn’t be shaken up by a walker, I think he had to go to a director or something to even be told
Ikr and they suddenly made Carl pacifist who wanted to stop fighting and wanted his dad to create some imaginary community where no one fights. I think they used Carl’s as an excuse to keep negan that is keepinh JDM on the show, bcoz in no universe he should’ve been spared. And then the rest of story just about how negan is good guy who had to do things and he is the only badass who can take down whisperers.
Just shows how cheap the people running this were
I believe it also came out that Chandler bought a house out near the predominant shooting location before he found out, which then led to people assuming that AMC just didn't want to pay him the same wage as the other adults
The Walking Dead directors and writers did Chandler dirty in order to keep Negan alive. Watching the show Carl went from badass to a peaceful dude. A complete 360 from his character. The writers went woke, which is why people hate woke stuff. Like many have said it’s okay to create stuff that includes woke ness but they freaking drowned the show with it. They kept ass actors like the girl that played Tara, and Denise. I felt like they did it perfect with Rick and Michonne cause you feel both actors chemistry and also Aaron was great, but then they took it to woke level 50000.
@@VastoFlo13Bro what 'wokeness' are you talking about. What part about Negan not killing people is woke but Rick having an interracial relationship isn't??
Before Glenn's fake-out death everything made sense, everything worked, everything was almost 'air-tight'. Everything that happened up to then had logical explanations. But that scene when dozens of walkers stand over him and somehow only ravage the person on top of him, whilst Glenn is able to 'sneak' away, is for me the start of the end for the Walking Dead Series.
Yeah especially 'cuz they literally killed him a few episodes later. It was such an unnecessary fake-out scene.
I think that’s just when you got jaded tbh
@@hata6290 not at all, he explained it perfectly, you don't have to dislike the show for it, but that scene was completely illogical and unnecessary, whether you liked it or not.
@@Dave002 I’m saying I believe the comment is biased, because they call EVERYTHING before the fake out air tight. Yeah, the fake out was noticeably off, but to say the entirety of the show before it was AIR TIGHT seems very biased, almost like that’s where the rose tinted glasses get taken off
I’m so glad that Steven Yeun, danai gurira, and Jon Bernthal found so much success apart from the show
...and Sonequa Martin-Green.
@@muvaofpearl I gotta be honest, I don’t really see her in much stuff anymore. Steven Yeun got nominated for a Freaking Oscar! Danai Gurirai is in Black Panther and Jon Bernthal is everywhere.
@@prathikdevaruppala She's in Star Trek Discovery, and Norman Reedus was on Death Stranding and Helluva Boss.
@@mackielunkey2205 Yeah Norman Reedus is probably gonna be in a lot of stuff goin forward, but I don’t really know a lot of people who watch discovery so I’m still in question with Sonequa Martin Green
Invincible, Okoye, and Punisher
I'm one of the people who bailed on TWD shortly after Glenn was killed off (which I felt created a huge charisma void in the show tbh), but the first death that set off bad writing alarm bells in my head was Beth's. I know that a lot of people didn't like her and probably didn't care, but I did, and the fact that the writers gave her some strong character growth just to immediately kill her off was a HUGE red flag for me. It felt really cheap and unnecessary.
Yeah after beth died I stopped really caring about the show
Same, Beth’s death was a big “oh actual narrative payoff isn’t a priority anymore” moment for me lol
honestly i feel like they couldve done so much if they found a way to work with the hospital or something but noooo, they just kill her and it sucks, totally agree with the caring less after
Beth basically committed suicide, it was absolutely idiotic and devoid of her arc and character
yeah, her arc in the hospital was literally pointless, because....she dies. And Noah literally dies five episodes later. Like??
The walking dead is like 100% more enjoyable when you watch a full season at a time. The boomerang storytelling becomes far more manageable and the fakeouts take less time to be revealed, so it fixed a lot of the issues for me
Honestly I think this is what it was written for. They created the show right before streaming took over completely, and it's definitely a binge show rather than one you wait every week for.
Same here I've basically seen all major storyline ege fear/two and daryl dixon show current going thur the rick and machone show
I agree with this. I didn't have an option to watch an episode a week, so I had to buy the DVDs and could binge them.
I agree, I recently watched the show for the first time on Netflix and a lot of the issues that are talked about here don’t seem a huge deal to me. I actually don’t mind season 7 and 8, they both have really good moments. However I can definitely imagine how slow they would seem with an episode a week.
yeah i only ever watched it on netflix so that was not something that annoyed me at all
Killing Carl off literally ruins the whole purpose of Rick’s story and the entire show. Carl was literally hyped up to be the fruition of Rick’s immense effort in surviving and raising a son during everyone’s worst nightmare.
They gave Rick a new son to replace Carl's role in the story
@@ShadowSonic2but it was still a bad idea and apparently, it didn’t work.
Daryl put it perfectly "That small group we had back in the beginning, could do anything." - That small group was broken up to complex individual character stories, rather than group stories. The break up of this small group resulted in the downfall of TWD.
Well, keeping this Group would eventually become boring. I know it might be controversial, but I loved the negan arc, the larger scale... i loved it
i think going on either full scale group stories or going all in on individual character stories is a bad a idea the key to both would be moderation in both areas sometimes there character stories other times with the group this would keep it interesting for longer
They spread it way too thin smh
I agree. We liked the group stories, but the series still lasted a long time.
Dude once it started branching out from the original group it got to be enough. If they kept the same rinse and repeat but kept the group small, not necessarily the same just small, I think it wouldn’t have come off as tedious. They played it out too long so there couldn’t be coordination between the legions that actually made it through and became established
They spent far too much of the show forgetting that: 1) you can cover yourself in zombie guts and they’ll ignore you 2) if you michonne it and remove a walkers arms and jaw so they can’t attack you, you can keen them as pets on a chain and other walkers will leave you alone And then they killed Carl…
But that can't be a long lasting solution, always covering yourself in rotting guts...
@@Bayard1503 If 2 girls can share 1 cup, you can tolerate some zombie guts.
@@LiberPater777 Funny. But it's not about that, it's about germs, bacteria that could kill you, especially in a world left without antibiotics. Anyway, later seasons went beyond that, as in simple zombies aren't really an issue anymore. There was a moment where their city is completely overrun by a horde and they just stood there and fought them and won. Most of the zombies are already pretty rotted, decaying a lot, as in mushy and easier to stab :)). Anyway, after plenty of weak seasons I think the one with the whisperers was actually very good. Haven't watched the final season yet.
It’s like attack on titan characters ignoring the titans can’t move at night rule
@@asimpnamednutsack5219 only once and in the end it isnt about mindless titan story anymore its about flesh gundam
The fact AMC fired the showrunner that started it all for a guy that ran it into the ground all over trying to capitalize on the success from the first season is the biggest mistake they made. Imagine if the show had Frank Darabont the whole time.
Frank is one of the best writers of all time. Executives ego was the problem, they want yes men/women.
I've been saying this since they blew up the CDC.
Season 1 will always be the high point of the series. Going from place to place, creative action set piece, thrilling plot progression, necessary character conflict, all while the zombie infection was new and unknown. From there, there were only bursts of entertainment, like the Hershell barn fight, but nothing steadily awesome like Season 1.
Their highest viewer numbers were from season 4-6 though.
@@elmercy4968it's called an opinion. Their high point was Season one.
@@lycwydthoughts4640 Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one.
@@elmercy4968 good observation. Do you have a point?
I wanna start watching TWD series again, but not the new spinoff shows or rewatch the seasons I liked. I want to watch Fear The Walking Dead. Does it also have the same pace? I watched season 1 a long time ago and I kinda like it. Is the season 2 - onwards is also good?
The most important thing that people needed and didn’t get, causing them to quit, is HOPE. People watch apocalyptic shows because they want to see people dragging civilization back from the pit. They don’t want to just watch a never ending treadmill of character introductions and deaths while the setting stays the same.
Yes! I was praying that at some point a season would become like a good settlement building game. The survivors would get a foothold, start to beat back all the bad guys and walkers. They would grow the colony. Then they could explore plots like how they are going to industrialize or write a new constitution of rights for the survivors in the camps or create a mini democratic government. There could be cool discovery channel-style shows where clever ingenuity shows the audience how ore is mined to create new items from scratch. There could be problems with a draught where they have to build an aqueduct. There could be scouting runs going further out to other states make contact with other colonies. Like if they sent some of the cast up to Massachusetts where “the modern minute men” have fortified an old revolutionary war era fort and created a new republic but there is some plot twist where they are bad. But instead the show tried to mill their tried and true formula. New colony , things are good for 5 minutes, mean mean bad guy does extra mean thing, colony destroyed, rinse and repeat. I was thoroughly done with this show by season 7.
This is actually why The Last Ship is one of my favorite apocalypse show
Yesssss I describe seasons 6 and beyond as a constant kick in the nads with no sign of relief.
No, I didn't care if they found a cure or not I was so hooked on the characters that all I wanted is them to stay alive. And not only did they all turn into badasses and leaders, they also started to rebuild civilizations in terms of maintaining the old values and morals and making the world safer. They made a new world and that is much more interesting than finding a cure and kill all the zombies of the world 😂. They went against all odds and took a doomed world and constructed it from the beginning. They went from scared nomads to leaders and world makers. HOPE is all the show is about along with values such as family, trust, love, humanity.thats the biggest plot twist for me. But ok😊
Yes that's exactly what I was thinking, at some point the viewer stops giving a shit. I capped out in season 4, by then it became very clear to me that if they don't find a cure to transition the story, there was no reason to keep watching because it would be just more of the same. By that point you already see cults, cannibals, betrayals, and all manner of walkers. So a tactic a lot of formulaic shows like this resort to is killing off characters to raise the tension. But the problem with that is its a short lived win, and now you have to introduce a new character that will hopefully connect with the audience and take the last one's place, and that only gets harder and harder with each subsequent death.
The handling of that season 6 finale is what killed the show. Teasing us to wait for months for the payoff. You noticed how much the viewership dropped after the opening episode of season 7. They should’ve showed Abraham being killed as the final scene of season 6, that way the audience thinks it’s safe. And then late into episode 1 of season 7 Glenn dies and shocks us all. Much better way to handle it
I was supporting The walking Dead all the way up until season 6 that's when I said enough
It was obvious the show was going nowhere in season 4.
I hated season 5, they separated the characters into too many plot lines, for such a LONG time, and part of what makes a show entertaining is that! seeing the characters interact with each other. And the end was just nonsense, Beth had such a potential as a character, and they killed her way too early and in the most dumb way possible.
I thought people who stopped watching at this point were being ridiculous considering people who read the comics already saw it coming but I think building up sm hype for months for that episode was a bit much which put people off.
I stopped watching at the end of season 6. Glenn was my favorite character and when I heard that he died in season 7 it encouraged me even more not to continue. I stopped because I realized how BADLY repetitive it was getting. There's not many shows I actively go, hm I'm gonna stop watching this. The walking dead was one.
It would have been so much better to just have Negan do one hit on Abraham, cut to black, then save Glenn’s death for the premiere.
I think one thing people forgot about watching this show as it aired on sundays was as the show grew how much longer and more frequent the commercial breaks became. The big episodes had to be 1hr 30min just to get and actual hour of the show. 1hr episodes were really around 40 mins. The show really felt it was being written around commercial breaks
Hollywoods obsession with franchises and spin-offs is what killed the walking dead. The writers focused their time on the spin-offs instead of the OG walking dead
Yes exactly
Something-something, Walking Dead became a zombie franchise, something-something.
hollywood thinks everything needs to be some cinematic universe and it's pissing me off
I''m not sure why anyone believed The Walking Dead has an interesting enough premise to justify all these spin offs. This isn't Marvel where the universe is so flexible in the stories it can tell. And even Marvel now feels dull and too much to keep up with, The Walking Dead is just people surviving zombies. There aren't a lot of new and exciting things you can do with such a premise. Even one show struggled to keep that interesting for 11 seasons straight, now they expect us to be interested enough to watch several spin offs just to understand what's going on.
The overall lesson we can take from this insistence on extending franchises past their expiration date and franchise fatigue is quite simply: "Know when to fold 'em". It's a comedy, but I think _The Golden Girls_ managed to end right when the show felt it was nearing its "Jumping the Shark" moment. The show was still entertaining, but you could kind of see where the writers began putting more wacky premises into the plots, and they left on a high note with Season 7. I notice that for long running shows, about the sixth or seventh season is right when it hits its zenith. Then it gets kind of hit or miss from there if it goes on. Season 10 and beyond seems excessive, many shows either going through the motions or jumping the shark and straying from what made much of the shows successful. Just an interesting pattern to note.
I got tired of the constant recycling of "find a safe place, lose it fighting other humans. Find a safe place, lose it fighting other humans", but what really killed it for me was the tell in the writing. It always gave away who was going to die next and it sucked all the suspense right out of the show for me. Starting with Beth, as soon as someone had a scene or episode emphasizing good emotions - hope or optimism for the future, happiness over achieving something emotionally important, long sought peace or contentedness, etc. - you knew that person was going to die within an episode. Beth had found her courage and was seemingly "rescued", and then she died. Noah believed in Alexandria and wanted to become an architect, and then he died. The veterinarian chick finally found a soda for her girlfriend and then immediately died. Abraham finally made peace with his past losses and found happiness in love again, and then he died. Sasha, same. Bob, same. Glenn, same. Carl, same.
totally agree
Agree 100%. The focus shifting from zombies > gunfights and people politics became dull REALLY quick. Like suddenly zombies, the struggle to find resources and the struggle to survive were just an after thought. Just tools to be used by the writers when convenient- be that for shock value deaths, “strategic” use during human v human fights, momentary nuisances to remind you they exist, etc. I *like* zombies. I like the idea of survival mid apocalypse, dealing with ever evolving and multiplying enemies. A group of people learning and adapting to an environment that is so inherently hostile with fewer resources everyday. THATS what I want and I think many zombie fans feel similarly. I was hooked by the zombies, not the “omg aren’t people just so awful?” Obviously there will be inter group conflicts and you can (should) use this type of situation to explore human psychology, but do so while keeping zombies as a focal point. You can have political strife WITHOUT GETTING RID OF THE ZOMBIES! Add that on top of the way they disrespected the audience in the last 4 seasons and you’ve effectively ruined the entire franchise. I watched fear the walking dead when it first started, I wanted to go back to the glory days. I stopped season 2 or 3. The characters were annoying with inconsistent or nonsensical motives and personalities. Like most modern media, the writing didn’t make sense if you thought about it for more than 2 seconds. They need to let it go, let it die in grace instead of shitting on the legacy like they have been.
@@kaia6584 Your comment resonates with me on a nearly spiritual level. If you look at any form of zombie related media, the writing is always too similar. In Fear the Walking Dead, they had THE ULTIMATE zombie survival setup on a yacht. Zombies can't swim. Humans can't access it without great risk. A yacht! After the way they wrote the teen girl, which was a guest on the boat, to find the captains gun and hide the ammo from him while she literally starts calling the shots as if it's her boat and ends up getting pirates to conveniently come cause problems to "move the story along." It would be immensely refreshing to see a show about ZOMBIE SURVIVAL. I'm tired of the perspective always being from the POV of "least likely survivors" I want to see a show written about how survivors lose their ranks to the horde, learn about the horde, adapt ways to out think, outsmart, and out maneuver a completely relentless enemy that feels no pain, no fear, and has no need to ever rest. They only ever write about human pathos and how people are dicks and can't get over their own shit even in the end of the world. It's starting to look like writers of the genre have lost sight of why people are fans of the zombie apocalypse genre to begin with. I almost long for some decent zombie survival that doesn't get reduced to human tribal wars with zombies in the crossfire.
@@dueydeebs5848 Yep, I agree with this. I feel like Dead State is the only piece of zombie media that's ever captured that element for me. It had its problems, but the humans vs zombies element was never one of them. Which is ironic, since it pitched itself as being a "humans are the main obstacle" kind of thing. It even dealt with the psychological element, like needing to build a soud proof room in your base because survivors that you recruited were losing sleep and going crazy with the non stop zombie noise outside.
The cycle you mention there got me to throw this and a bunch of other shows out early. Dexter comes to mind as another example of the story repeating itself that bored me into quitting.
I quit watching the episode they killed Carl. I had been dissatisfied with it before that, but that was the last straw. I was completely enraged and felt betrayed. I never watched another episode again. And I LOVED this show. Really sad.
that is exactly how i felt. i was completely obsessed with the show up until they found alexandria and things got boring. then they killed off glenn and THEN carl. i couldnt watch after that and never have since
I'm literally getting ptsd from the clips you're using 😭 Seeing all those pointless side characters again, can't remember any of their names, just hours and hours of walking and talking and walking and talking 😭
My biggest problem was when the group would do something that was extremely effective and helpful, but then several episodes later would completely discard the idea. "Hey this is a really effective way to kill zombies without putting us in danger." "I know! Lets not do that ever again." "Agreed!"
@@TackJorrance project zomboid fellas know
I was really expecting the series to show people getting to grips with the new reality of zombification, rebuilding the world with a lot of innovating ideas and power struggles between opposing ideologies on how to rebuild the world. There's was so much they could have done with the series, if they had the balls to phase out the so called "main plot" of menacing zombies. IRL Human civilisation would probably recover from a zombie apocalypse WAY faster than the runtime of the original series.
@@kman1893 hahah pz boys represent
@@pauldickhoff3594 "IRL Human civilisation would probably recover from a zombie apocalypse WAY faster than the runtime of the original series." Have you seen how people, medias and governments acted with covid, that wasn't a dangerous virus ?
Do you have an example? Can't think of any
I really liked how in the beginning of the show it tried to keep a firm grasp on reality, for a science fiction horror, of course. What I mean is that in the beginning the story was told as if it was a hypothetical of what would/could happen if such a disease existed. It felt so real, so plausible. Then, it started to feel cartoonish. It lost that feeling of immersion and became ridiculous.
I feel like zombie movies struggle so much because we mostly have a good idea of what we’d do in such a situation. TWD from what I remember, has no cultural concept of zombies or undead, so there’s already a massive bridge we need to cross to actually cause viewers to stick around.
The moment i saw a tv spot witha dude sitting on a throne with a fake af looking tiger on a leash, i knew i was right in quitting at the start of season 7
I heard that argument a lot around season 7 and though I had my own issues with the show, I never agreed with that - with all due respect for the fact that that's just how it felt to you, and that's fine. As a reader of the comics, the things that other viewers found "too much" (Ezekiel and his tiger, etc.) were always going to be part of the storyline for me. That was just always going to be the story because that's the source material so it didn't catch me off guard as much, I guess.
Read the comics
The early seasons had that creep factor for that exact reason, it felt like it COULD actually be possible
I'll never forget the very first episode. Shane and Rick responding to a high speed chase. The shootout. Waking up in the hospital and everything is turned upside down. Watching them in another episode inside the CDC trying to get answers. Didn't the doctor end up telling Rick everyone was infected? Thought I read that somewhere
I found out the Walking Dead finished through this video and I am one of those guys who never returned after the Finale of S6. I thought I quit much sooner but turns out I made it through a lot and you perfectly highlighted why I stopped caring and answered a question I always had . . . Why? Boomerang Story Telling
I'd argue there was an additional fatal mistake - announcing the Maggie & Negan and Daryl spinoffs before the show actually finished. Once they announced them, any scene where these characters were in danger had zero tension because we knew they were going to be fine because they're needed for the spinoffs! Totally destroyed the idea that no-one is safe and could be killed off at any moment
Agreed
The show was pretty dead by that point
While I would agree, those characters already had super heavy plot armor by that point so their scenes were always inconsequential
Great point
I saw an article where JDM actually publicly complained about that.
Carl was literally the very soul of The Walking Dead, killing him off like that was the last straw imo. He had so much potential, I wanted him to become the eventual protagonist of the show after Rick's hypothetic death, but off course we can't have nice things.
In the comics he grows old and becomes Negan’s caretaker / a gunslinger.. for Robert Kirkman’s sporadic writing quality he stuck the landing in the comics.
he didn't had any potential, carl was a forgotten and missed used character since the start, killing him off didn't do more than giving a refreshed start to TWD, reason why season 9 n 10 are so good
dude who played him was really a good actor and it started to really show
I never got this. The soul of the show? He was an annoying character played by a bad actor. Killing him off was clearing out the dead wood.
@@darkwoods1954 🤣🤣 I hated that freaking kid. Then the right when I started to like him they killed him. Carl in the comics was awesome.
Since I saw all the seasons (three 😂 times now) on Netflix. The boomerang effect was not distracting. Yet perhaps effective to one: save some budget costs per episode run, and two: for an audience it helped invest more time on some unique characters and relieve ourselves from some congested plots. So that Boomerang effect worked on Netflix. But I could see how it would affect a Sunday to Sunday run.
No it didn't work anywhere, season 7 onwards is a failure
When it comes to live cable and having to wait weeks to even a month to see what happens. That shit did not work.
Biggest mistake that led to all the others was firing Frank Darabont. “Yeah, let’s fire the guy that made Shawshank, The Mist, and The Green Mile.” Brilliant
Cant remember who, but someone once said "The art of making a show/serie is knowing when to stop" Crazy how many shows dont learn from this.
that so true 🤣🤣
What do you think should have been a natural end point? When rick blows up the bridge?
@@unsubme2157 They should never have made so many off those weird decisions, pretty sure dropping from 14 million viewers plus onto less than a million had a big part in Andrew Lincol leaving or atleast made the choice far more easy. Think they should have stopped strong to maybe pick it up later instead of ruining the show lmao.
I love pizza, but if I eat pizza every day eventually I’ll get sick of it
There's an old saying in showbiz, "Leave them wanting more". Ricky Garvais knows & practises this so well, as he if anything, stops his shows short.
the writers killing off Carl was the last straw for me, Rick without Carl just doesn’t make any sense to me
It was really stupid to kill carl off 😠
The only episode I watched after that was Rick's last. Even that was mainly because of the cameos.
Same
It feels even stupider since they gave him a son with Michonne like one season later (a son that didn't exist in the novels).
Carl living through the whole comic book series made this tv series worse in retrospect.
The boomerang aspect only sucks if all the other storylines were boring. I've read books that do something similar but you forget because the next chapter is an equally interesting part of the overall narrative. Each storyline is as interesting as the last so when you come back to storyline 'A'' you're thinking "oh yeah. That's right"
George RR Martins song of ice and fire and Stephen Kings The Stand comes to mind. Like you say, it's less about Boomerang storytelling and more about overall poor writing being the main problem
@@leob4403 The last two books of GoT are also weak though. The story is kinda dissolving. The interesting characters die or leave to some place far far away.
@@elmercy4968 nah all the books are great
I dropped off in like S5 or S6-ish. One season is a lot of walking, ends with finding a new settlement. Next season is defend the settlement, fight bad guy, driven out of settlement. Next season is walking, ends with finding a new settlement. Next season is defend the settlement, fight bad guy, driven out of settlement. Next season is ........... /and I'm done.
It’s so insane to me and a testament to the talent of Frank Darabont that he managed to make such a good show with only 6 episodes that managed to fly that high for 10 more seasons and half a dozen more shows before it slowly rolled to a stop.
You're absolutely right.
Never should have gotten rid of frank
@@jdgaf2058 no thanks Michael kandal was better
@@p0p7art Naw, season 1 is the peak of the show. It just kept getting worse and worse the longer it went on.
@@p0p7art not a fucking chance lmao
Terminus is when I realized the show was on a loop. Travel, find a group, get overwhelmed, regroup, conquer opposition, settle down, encounter another group. Start loop again.
Funny, I lost interest right after Terminus when they were in Alexandria. I stopped watching somewhere in-between the Glenn fake-out death and the reveal that it was fake, so I spent years being confused cuz I thought he died but was still seeing Glenn merch in stores 😂
agreed. weird that he didn't mention it in the video. the show being so formulaic and repetitive is why many i know quit watching it
I have never heard a dude complain this much.. over something so mundane too :|
Isn’t it what would happen in real life?
@@tennoo160That's exactly what would happen in real life
The one thing they left out, was the need for water. In all these seasons, you will not see a single character drink anything, let alone water. But in 2010, it didn’t matter cuz there was no survival drama previously so nobody would even notice the lack of water.
Yes. Which is why Hershel's farm and Alexandria were so critical. They also never really worried about food, but once your stores run out in a year, that's all anyone would be doing. Farming and hunting.
Each time I hear a peep about a TWD spinoff I wonder who is even watching this show anymore and...it's no one. I'm curious about The Ones Who Live, but I have a feeling it'll be like slowing down to gawk at a 30-car pile-up of clown cars.
TOWL has been seriously amazing two episodes in. Great pacing too.
@@midasvanoene1586 IKR? I’m so happy I started watching. I’m not used to waiting a week for a show like the old days, but I’m too impatient to wait for all of them to drop.
I love those who live. I stopped around carls death, I truly could not stand Negan and the fact he became one of the main protagonists after Rick and carls left a bad taste in my mouth. Rick and michonne being solo is enough to get my interest back. Both great characters with great chemistry.
@@kays8976 I hung in for a few more seasons after Rick left, but there wasn’t the same spark as before. I’m glad this is only supposed to be 6 eps - less time to fuck it up - but I’d watch more if it stayed this good.
Check out the comics, they’re way better
They can make 20 different spin-offs and none of them will ever come close to inducing the amount of anxiety that season 1 gave. Darabont is a one of a kind director who knows how to cast versatile actors and make them act in a realistic way that reflects the situation of the characters that they’re playing.
You seem to have missed the group that kept track of and manipulated the paths of massive hoards across the whole country in the one with the kids.
@@Noahloveless1 that one was dogshit too. no one wants to watch a tv show about a bunch of dumbass teenagers in a zombie apocalypse
After Glenn's fake death, it was a huge shocker at the beginning of season 7 when he got it after Abraham. The fans were led to believe there would be only 1 death and I remember how shocked I was. It was so brutal
Honestly, even the second season was absolutely horrible in my opinion. I remember watching it and waiting for SOMETHING that would remind me of season 1 and I did not get it. The difference to season 7 when I stopped watching altogether being that I understood the series being in the beginning of it's story and forgave the senseless bs at the farm. I would endure Lori being the absolute worst of any tv show character because I couldn't give up. At season 7 I was like "No, not this time, I cannot for give this".
@@LeechwifeI didn't see anything wrong with Lori. At least she was 1 an actual unedited character from the comics and 2 actual character from the comics. The trash characters were the wokified girl boss version of Carol, the killing of Carl so they can replace him with a female character that died at birth in the comics then theirs them replacing the awsome redneck character Merl and replaced him with a woke version of a redneck that never exists in the comics. If they just stuck with the comics the show would have been 999x more awsome.
38:34 If someone told younger me that the walking dead's later seasons would have survivors cosplaying as stormtroopers while riding on horseback, I would've called them crazy.
I stopped watching way before that came into play. When I saw images of it I laughed my head off. It looked so cheap and plastic
I mean, that was in the comics too, lol. They were meant to be pure white and the design is basically identical between the two.
@@Spore9996 yeah they should have changed the colour since they took liberties with everything else
That comes from the comics thought and it isn't a bad idea by itself when viewed in context, and it definitely wasn't what made the show or the seasons bad.
For real, when I first saw an episode of it, I actually thought they were stormtroopers, no joke.
I always liked how at the start, every time you see a fight break out you really didnt know if your fav character would live to tomorrow. Its a shame it went so downhill. I think personally the biggest downfall of walking dead was the shift from zombies and survival to a theme of humans being the real monsters
Zombies became an afterthought. I also thought it was unrealistic that food and water were not a constant concern, because it should have been. In real life, that's ALL you would be focused on.
Man, I so clearly remember watching those first couple episodes with my mom. That was the first show that we passionately watched together after I was an adult. I graduated in August 2010 so I was back home for the first time in years when the first season aired and we fell in love with it instantly. Such a bummer that it fell off so hard/the pattern became so recognizable. I fell off after Carl died and have only now started to dip my toes back into it since I've heard such good things about the Daryl show and the Rick/Michonne show. I like both of them well enough so far and I think it's because the show was able to focus down into one story line with one set of characters. They never mastered how to handle the large ensemble cast and it ended up feeling like our characters were never really together after a certain point just due to the narrative structure of the show. It got real frustrating to spend three or four hours to see one event from all of the perspectives when other shows were doing so much more in less run time.
I know you fell off but are you and your mom watching the newer stuff together still? Your comment took me back
@@mikeinthemix I fell off after the Carl death, she hung on for a couple years afterwards, just kinda to see how things went. She lost faith eventually as well and stopped watching new episodes, but still kept tabs on it and popped in and out here and there. She watched the Daryl show last year and gave me positive reviews. I already watch The Last Drive-in on Shudder and the host, Joe Bob Briggs, will usually do a special episode for the pilot of all of the spin-off TWD shows, do I hit their episode hosting the DD pilot and was surprised how much I liked it. I didn't really want to give TWD my live back because they'd burned me in the past, so I didn't really watch the rest of the Daryl show at first. It wasn't until Danai started making appearances on some of my podcasts to promote TOWL that I really decided that I was gonna really give them a fair chance. Danai just seemed very passionate about their work on this series and it felt genuine. So yes, right now we are back on it together. But it isn't appointment television the way that it used to be. We watch it when we can, we discuss it when we're both caught up, etc. I've now caught up on DD and TOWL at this point, and I think if the season finale of TOWL is good, I think we'll be fully back on board. I'm not watching all the Fear seasons and other nonsense that I've missed since the Carl death, though. That still seems like a very large commitment to me.
Michael Rooker’s Merle Dixon doesn’t get ennough love when we reminisce on this show. He was so good at capturing desperation, vitriol, rage, humiliation, and so many other emotions.
you're gay aren't you?
The Daryl Dixon spinoff starts tonight.
You need a hug?@@EstradaDuran-sg6co
He killed the GOAT Gargulio tho.
@@EstradaDuran-sg6co 💀
it's not even fair to the actors what the writers did to this show. they carried it so hard for as long as they could. i am so proud of everyone who blew up because of the walking dead. michonne went from zombie slayer to wakanda warrior, and thats exactly what she deserves. total fucking badass that she is.
Grateful she returned for the new show
The Walking Dead became a parody of itself. The show about zombies became a zombie show that would not die. Pretty funny actually. It was really just a cash cow that AMC refused to let go because it kept making money no matter how bad it got.
Season 1 & 2 were the best, only show that stayed good from start to finish was SOA.
What went wrong was what is wrong with all Hollywood failures these days. The writing. The writing just went downhill towards the end. Yeah that same mob who are striking for more money and holding Hollywood to ransom. Where did the inspired writers go? The early episodes were great. About halfway through the run it really went off the boil. For me it was taking the focus off the zombies and instead humans fighting each other. The worst villain was Jeffery Dean Morgan's character. Now I love JDM. I think he's sexy but his villain was such an unremittingly evil and brutal person. That's when it went off the boil for me. Surely if the world was really in such a dire place the humans would have to be united in the face of a common enemy. This brutal infighting, human against human was a total turn off. It became your typical humdrum goodies against baddies. The show lost it's feel of the strange, the threatening the unknown.
@@terryrichmond4723 Breaking Bad stayed good from start to finish too, along with SOA the big difference between those two shows versus other shows like TWD or Dexter is they knew when to end it. shows like TWD/Dexter and many more go on way too long that it kind of ruins it
Fear the Walking Dead did something even worse. If you think what you watched happen in TWD was infuriating, steer clear of Fear. Fear had 2 (3? I can't recall) seasons that were REALLY good. They managed to capture a lot of the early magic of TWD while at the same time carving its own path through the outbreak - opting to give us more of the actual fall of civilization. Then right at the high point of the show, they decide to bring over Morgan. Which is fine, but in bringing over Morgan, they decided to just COMPLETELY ABANDON all current character arcs, etc - quickly writing them all out and recentering the show around morgan and bring it more in line with all the things that were already going wrong on the flagship show. It was such a kick in the nuts.
I think more than anything, the show became a victim of the TV format. I personally watched the series from start to end, and part of the reason I stuck with it is probably because I was unable to watch consistently on a weekly basis, so instead I tended to PVR the show and binge watch it a full season at a time. As a result I never experienced the negative impact of the boomerang storytelling in the way it was originally presented. It makes me wonder if Walking Dead had been launched on a streaming platform and released an entire season at a time, if things might have played out differently. Also, in fairness to the show, they were using the comics as source material. Though they frequently swapped out which character would be killed in a certain event, most of the rest of the story follows the comics, so the loop of find a place to live, fight a villain, place gets destroyed was a symptom of the comics themselves.
I am the only member of my family who watched TWD until it ended. It began with my entire family loving it, and me saying goodbye alone.
Sounds like me pretty much. 😂
Vast majority of people dropped off after season 6.
So the question is... Whats the appeal for being a glutton for punishment? 🤣
Your family stopped watching because it turned to shit. It actually turned into a terrible show.
Damn, your family experience with TWD was more accurate in the end to a zombie apocalypse than TWD was XD
Andrew Lincoln is such an underrated actor. He gave the performance of a lifetime!
He's my top favorite with Tom Welling.
One day I'll scroll down the comment section of a youtube video without someone misusing the term "underrated". One day... there's still hope... One day...
@Em Not sure how I'm misusing it though? It's just the truth that Andrew Lincoln didn't get much critical acclaim for this role compared to other actors from popular shows at the time. And he doesn't have the level of fame he should've had from a role like this.
@@crod9905 very true. was was in a sitcom my sister watched in the 90's and nothing else as far as I know lol
@@cherryblossom7120 Welling really needs another hit show. But if not, I hope that animated Smallville he's been talking about gets made.
Off topic kinda, but I just wanted to say how great the intro to this video is. From the song to the shots, the editing is flawless. I repeated those 15-20 seconds like 40x 🤣
yeah season 7 broke me tbh. watching it really felt like a chore and then season 8 rolls around and they kill carl for no good reason, yeah i’m done.
the first four seasons were so immersive, my favorite part of it is how all the characters became a family even though they were all from completely different backgrounds.
Yeah... and it isn't ever really something that the show SUPER harps on, you just really get the vibe that all of these people REALLY care for each other and they will show it. I wish things could've gone better for the show.
i stopped watching during season 4 and never got back into it. then i had 2 coworkers talking about it non stop with spoilers so why bother xD
yes. i discovered the series after i played the first episode of walking dead game on my phone. and all of a sudden i saw an episode on my tv of the tv show and i fell immeadiately in love with it. i loved the first 4 seasons so much.
My favorite was merl fuckin Dixon. Such a rounded unique character.
@@dusteedawg2915 he reminds me too much of literally every man in my state. He was an ok character, mostly just a racist who got a cool hand and had a redemption arc before dying.
My grandmother was absolutely enthralled by this world's story and characters when it started airing in 2010. Sadly we lost her around the time season 4 started. Beautiful woman inside and out and we miss her terribly but I'm thankful she didn't get to see how they ruined one of the most popular and groundbreaking television series of all time.
I'm sorry to hear that, but hey. At least she didn't have to put up with this horrendous, CW-tier writing.
I'm almost certain she would've dropped the show after they killed off Carl. That's when I stopped. Rick eventually leaving I believe we all could've handled if done right, but Carl was supposed to be the one spirit that carried on in the story.
Then thank god she passed before she saw the last season
@@Chadius_Thundercock even if she did end up seeing the last few seasons, the horrible writing and dialogue alone probably would've taken her out.
@@Courier_Seven BRUHHH I CANT- stop ill be going straight to hell if u keep saying that
The show runners did Carl a favor by killing him off. That boy woulda ruined his career if stayed on.
I watched from Episode 1 until Rick was gone. I don’t care if they write him back in, but once Ezekiel and Carol got all “Middle Ages” the charm of the show was gone. Seasons 1-5 were epic.
I’m sure some people are going to argue that Game of Thrones had a bigger downfall, but the fact that I didn’t even know that the show had ended, I think speaks volumes to how much of a downfall it had. At least Game of Thrones had people talking until the very end. Hell eight years later, and we’re still fucking talking about it! PS I don’t know if it’s actually been eight years, honestly, it feels like twice as long ago thanks to Covid, but I just threw a number out there.
And Game of Thrones ended while there was still a giant fandom. The show was trending every week still. The ending actually managed to make people ANGRY. TWD just fizzled out
I thought the show had ended years ago. Until KZhead Shorts showed me clips of the finale and Rick Grimes's scene
A bit of false comparison though. GoT ended in 2019 before the streaming saturation that came in the 2020s. The content fragmentation in the recent years have made it harder for newer shows to get that blockbuster/watercooler level success you used to see. Though choosing to drag the show to 11 seasons and bleeding viewers at an exponential rate was a decision that the executives took that damaged the brand and health of the show. Unless your audience is mostly seniors that will literally die watching your show like NCIS or Law and Order, it's best not to keep it chugging along with hundreds of episodes of diminishing returns.
The only other show I can think of that's had a similar downfall is Supernatural or Grey's, but Grey's is STILL going so only time will tell if they'll keep going for ANOTHER ten years
@@roseolivas08 hasn't the lead of greys said she's begged for the show to end for the past like 6-10 years?
Carol: We have killed people and I feel bad about it. Daryl: Dont, we had no choice, was us or them (followed by 5 minutes of somber silence with them staring into the horizon) I feel like they had this same conversation about 20 times in the last few seasons. It is the definition of filler, that I think is the main reason most people left. Not the deaths for shock value, but the sheer repetition of everything again and again and again.
When they kill off all the people you root for, there is not reason to watch. I was on the fence by the time S5 E10, and fully stopped watching when Glenn died. There’s no purpose with shock & awe. And there were so many plot holes from season to season that are left unexplained that there was no purpose in watching. Clearly that’s not entertainment.
@@imadone glenn death was faithful to the comics though (in opposition to Carl’s ridiculous death)
This and they're on the run, they find a new base, it gets ruined, repeat.
@@wad316 It only happend 2 times
Carl's death ruined the show period. His development is the entire drive of the story until the end(in the comics), and should've stayed that way imo.
It was also oversaturated. There was so many different walking dead shows going on that it became a lot for people. Three different shows, one-offs, talks of movies. It essentially became Marvels Phase 4 and 5.
I stayed loyal to the show until the "end," and the last episode definitely broke my heart in a big way. I was unable to watch the Daryl and Maggie/Negan series. But will give the Richone one a shot. I hope to hear an update from you on these spinoffs at some point. Great video and insights!
as someone who only watched the first 2 or 3 seasons, I wonder: where do they think a show like this would end? Because I always saw it as a doomed thing, but now I'm seeing a character going to... Paris? How? Is he swimming? By boat by himself?
Dont worry. It will time jump and he will wake up with amnesia, unsure how he got there. There will be vague clues and hints without ever having any real debunkable detail said. Im not even kidding, that's what leaks say
Helicopters and planes become a thing in the universe in season 8 and the awful season 5 of FTWD 😂
@@spoons250 lmao peak writing degeneracy.
That’s a good point. Even the comic book had a kind of weak ending from my understanding.
@@user-yc5lb8fw5r Yeah, from how it was described to me, it sounds like Rick dies, theres a huge time jump, then society is restored. Its really fuckin weird.
Killing Carl off will go down as one of the worst choices ever made in the history of television. But what made it worse was immediately next season they killed off Henry, the character they gave Carl’s Whisperer storyline to, making his death even worse
nah that was a cool ass death
This!! Exactly this!! Killing off Carl was bad (read the worst possible choice ever), but killing off Henry? Really?? The "border marking" scene in the comics still strikes me as one of the most devastating twists ever, and the way handled it in the show was like Negan's introduction on steroids: subverting expectations solely for the sake of subverting expectations instead of just adapting amazing source material.
They killed off Siddiq relatively fast too, who Carl had risked his life for.
@@III_Ed_B_III i find that such a silly complaint because people be saying “carl died for nothing” when his sacrifice got the community a doctor who help rebuild this community even bringing in new life for the future
@@gavina4241 Was that sacrifice mentioned, linked, or developed, in later episodes? I'm talking about character development, and writers having an understanding for their characters and audience, and bringing that to the screen explicitly as well as implicitly (a skill which declined in this show over a period of years, to a laughable point in the latter seasons).
I came to admit that I only started watching TWD for the first time ever in december 2023. I am VERY late to the party but probably as obsessed as everyone else was back in the day. I just started the last season and I absolutely agree with everything you said. Well done video.
Lucky lol Enjoy! How did you feel when they faked glens death? It bothered me so much but I purposely shrugged it off to stay loyal to the show
@@mikeinthemix the one in the back alley? I felt sorry for everyone who had to live through the Cliffhanger 😬 That's a reason I don't watch stuff like this in real time, I HATE to wait.
I was also a huge fan from the start, but the show, and I parted ways after our introduction to Negan and his goons. The scene with our "beloved" characters at Negan's mercy and it's outcome.
I remember how hype I was about the idea of searching for a cure. Something that lasted a few episodes. There was a goal. When they revealed that this cure was bullshit, I felt there was no hope at all, no goal to reach, just "Kill the new bad guy" every season. And I got bored with Negan very quick after his shocking introduction.
I don't mind the actor guy but too much hype can kill someone. Maybe comic him was great but all I saw was a fat biker that the red haired guy could have easily just bum rushed and curb stomped.
Same. I stopped after Season 6. There's no overarching story progression.
I stopped watching when they didn't kill negan at the end of the season they introduced him.
Same, pretty much spot on where it started to crack before i stopped watching
I may sound like some purist right now, but I immediately saw the "gangsta-elderly-care"-plot line in the first season as a major red flag of things to come. It was a toneally insane decision to include it in the series, and had nothing to do with the original plot line. At that point I'd read all the comics that had been published. I quit watching after season 2 as I didn't certain directions of the TV show as believable or engaging as the comic. Especially the character of Lori, who was testing my patience from her very first scene
not even kidding i stopped watching after carl died… the biggest mistake in all of tv history
Killing off Shane was a bigger mistake.
@@randchuck2492 shane was insane. that was valid
@@randchuck2492 false bro lost his mind😂
Nah it was Glenn for me
I stopped a long time before that
I honestly gave up at the beginning of season 5 because their plotting was so damn tedious. The group separates, they rejoin, they move to a haven, oh no we discovered this isn't a haven, we have to team up, we're captured, we have to burn this place to the ground and escape. That had happened so many times before this, I got a couple of episodes into the Terminus storyline and noped out. And, honestly hearing the backlash and pandering it got in the rest of the season and next two, I was kind of happy I got off the Walking Dead train then.
I really liked your Video and Your Voice, everything was described perfectly! Thanks for your work! :D
Although, there wasn’t a single mention of the comics it’s based on. In a 52 minute long essay!
I liked when Maggie forgot Beth existed for almost an entire season and then the writers realized it and suddenly Maggie showed a ton of concern for her and was ecstatic when she learned Beth was still alive just to kill her off in the dumbest way possible. Bravo, Vince.
Are you referring to Vince Gilligan? You know he had nothing to do with the Walking Dead right?
Right?
@@Disgruntled_KinkajouSorry you missed the joke
@@Disgruntled_Kinkajou it's a joke bruh obviously Vince had nothing to do with this dumpster turd show
@@Disgruntled_Kinkajou HE DIDN'T?! OMG!
The Walking Dead is a good example of how dystopian universes are great to create easy conflict, but the payoff at the end is almost always nonexistent. Having the entire world burn is a tough problem to solve.
Walking dead is also what not to do when writing a dystopian based fanfiction that isn't zombies or otherwise.
Imagine if it ended like Breaking Bad did. It would go down as one of the best series' ever similar to BB. Unfortunate
I was always annoyed by the "ninja stealth" of the zombies appearing just off-camera for a jump-scare attack. Characters would be in the middle of the forest and then instantly surrounded 🙄 Also, picking up a light jog could help you escape most encounters (rule #2 Cardio? 🏃). And the hordes were everywhere for some reason. The rinse-and-repeat story formula pushed me away.
The show died for me when Carl was killed off, and it was buried in a shallow grave when Rick became absent.
Blahhhh hahahahhahhhaa........Ikr?
And in the comic, Carl survived till the end.
@@margarethmichelina5146 Like why didn't they just replace Carl with an older actor they were planning to do a what a 10 year time skip or something. Carl was still alive in the comic, and the show would still work with him taking on the mantle as leader moving forward.
If that pisses you off you should look into why they did it 😂
@@silentecho92able that wasn't the issue they didn't wanna pay Chandler Riggs an adult actors pay bc at the time he had recently turned 18 plus they were obsessed with shock value deaths. I mean Carl's the perfect point bc the guy he fucking dies for gets a shock value death not even 2 seasons later in the dumbest way possible after ruining his character and not having him do anything to make Carl's death feel the tiniest bit worthwhile. The dude doesn't even help in the saviors war he's a medic kind of but we barely see him when a lead since season fucking 1 died saving him it feels so disrespectful to Carl's character. Yeah after years of the apocalypse literally growing up in the worst conditions possible multiple wars and gunfights and he gets bitten fighting 3 walkers saving a dumbass that randomly for the sake of plot gets PTSD (when he's seen far worse things than what supposedly gives him PTSD) and dies not even 2 seasons later without contributing anything to the overall story. Edit: also sadik (idfc how it's spelled) is the only character to have this sort of reaction in the show so it feels so fucking out of place to have him be so deeply traumatized (when he's seen people torn apart and eaten while still alive) even if it is realistic which it's not he's been through worse and never was traumatized from it before so now suddenly why is the deaths of like idk 9 people only one of which he knew on a friendly level affecting him? (I can't fucking remember the show couldn't even bother killing off noteworthy characters for this so I genuinely can't even remember who or how many died here all I know is Ezekiel was supposed to and instead was randomly given cancer and delegated to a useless side character for the final season)
Glenn's fake out and continous closer brushes with death was definitely frustrating because they dragged it out all season but what really made me question the competency of the writing was Beth's pointless shock value death. It felt like they couldn't find a use for her in the next season so they killed her off but it was in such a wasteful and disrespectful way
The writing for that death was clunky as hell! Oooops my gun went off by accident after being stabbed in the shoulder with a tiny pair of nail scissors. I mean, seriously... they couldn't come up with anything better than that?
I think it was at that point that the show started to feel "weird". It was a death that came out of nowhere and made me upset Of course, one might argue "just because it made you mad doesn't mean it's bad writing" or something along those lines. Which I would agree In fact, if you get upset about a character dying - or even leaving on other terms, the story must be doing something But nope; Beth's death was just plain stupid
The whole hospital story was terrible, but. I never cared for Beth's character so meh. Carls death on the other hand 😐
I agree! It actually felt like Beth and Daryl were going to form a close relationship, and I don't mean a romantic one because she had grown up in front of him. Then they killed her, sending an already unstable character spiraling even further out of control. As Negan so often loved to say, not cool!
@@shadokat Their "relationship" was poorly written and very confusing! I couldn't tell what they were going for at any given time. The writers were obviously conflicted and it was a difficult "sell" what with character and actor ages being all over the place! Daryl and Beth were supposed to be very young in seasons 1 and 2 and not much time had gone by in the story but Reedus was already looking too old for that particular "ship" no matter how much they messed about with his hair! They got it right later on with Daryl's uncle and surrogate father roles cuz the age gap was there.
I gave up around season 8 or so. At that point, I was just really bored because no progress was being made and I wasn't invested in the characters, anymore But really, I could feel myself losing the engagement as soon as Abraham was murdered. And then Glenn's death made the wound bigger and poured salt in it
Negan was the problem, his poor writing, not the death of Glenn
The end came for me when Negan killed Abraham and went straight to work on Glen. I didn't even wait for him to finish... just turned it off and never went back.
Why though?
@@leob4403Too gratuitous and sensationalistic for my taste. Like watching a snuff film. Generally, the vibe of things under Gimpel was rubbing me the wrong way, and that scene was the last straw. I didn't miss the show a bit.
Me too. There is no hope without those characters and we lost humanity with others (Beth, Hershel, etc) only to be replaced with characters I didn't like. If I were in that situation, Neghan would not be alive and neither would I. End of story. I can't watch anything with Neghan in it to be honest.
I had an ultra hard time believing Michonne basically abandoned her kids in the final season
Same! 🤦🏻♀️😩 That is unfrigginbelieavable!
Both kids have no character development. It felt like props that were given from person to person. they were suppose to be ricks legacy and they weren't even interesting. What was the point of those kids?
She was shooting Black Panther and I think she wanted to leave.
@@cherryblossom7120 Judith definitely had character development
@@Shockkings0714 the strong women stereotype or the golden child syndrome?
I’m glad you made the point about TWD going from being a show everyone you know was watching to a show that nobody you knew was still watching. Same exact thing happened to me
I stomached Rick's unbelievable fake accent for 5 seasons just to see Karl get killed off and the best villain the show had turned into a good guy?
In a way, the walking dead is a metaphor on how the writers killed off their entire fanbase only leaving a few soul survivors/viewers
Went from "did you see" to "that is still going??"
Great video! And I agree with you on so many points
Although he didn’t mentioned the comics a single time
When the armored trucks had thin sheet metal flopping in the wind before the war with Nigan thats when i realized the 'ive already made it this far lets just finish the show' didnt matter anymore lmao
I was one of those millions that quit after Carl’s death. Not because I was upset, but because watching it felt like a massive chore!
For me, it was watching it in season 10. IMO I think seasons 7 and 8 were bad but I felt like the last 2 seasons of the show were worse. It felt like there was just constant buildup to absolutely nothing coming out of it and each episode just kept on getting less and less interesting going through. At that point, I just resorted to looking up spoilers since they decided to air episodes on amc+ a week early just to see if the episodes were worth watching so I wouldn’t have to get my hopes up that something good was going to happen.
I watched until Rick was taken off from the story, but truly, Carl's death almost done it for me. Especially since it wasn't written for the story sake, but because some behind the scene bs (they didn't want to Pay the actor more, after his original contract was coming to the end - freaking capitalisn for ya).
I stopped watching the exact episode they killed Carl off. Him dying wasn't apart of the comics or plan- the producers just didn't like that the actor was wanting to attend college AND act. So, they killed him off. Carl signified hope to me and I wanted to see him become a leader and to see a world where a cure works- to live for his mom and Judith and be a rock for his father. Him dying was the last straw for me, I didn't care about anyone else's survival as much as his. The kid survived so much shit just to have a random and unnecessary death.
it wasnt unnecessary or random at all, they were in the middle of a war and he died because he helped a person he didnt even know, and that had a huge impact on everybodys views and thinking, i would have loved to have carl still in the show but his death wasnt random
@@kjellkleineit was unnecessary and random. The where or what of his dumbass death doesn't take away from that. Carl, THE Carl, should know how to handle a couple of walkers.
fair view point, but because he had survived sooo much since being a child, it FELT random to just get bitten the way he did then to take himself out. That death had been done multiple times before. I guess it could be realistic in that no one is safe and not all deaths need to be grand- but his character wasn't supposed to die in the first place, so it felt out of no where and lackluster @@kjellkleine
I agree with this, It's been years since I stopped the show (on the exact episode of his death) but I remember feeling that exact way: "how did carl mess up against a couple of walkers when he has been through so much more" it didn't make any sense. I felt irritated/annoyed and it pulled me out of the show because I was thinking "what idiot wrote this?" I guess it could be debated that people make mistakes and can get taken down by the most simplest of things, but meh, it really was an awful way to end his character@@Fackunator
@@Piratequeen010156 EXACTLY. Carl, who at that point knew how to deal with the living, should not have been ambushed by a couple of walkers. Yes, one could argue that "people make mistakes", but killing walkers at that point in time, should come as easy to Carl as walking. He was raised in the apocalypse. I'm not saying he should've been a ninja or something, but he should've handled the situation with the expertise expected from a child of the apocalypse. The moment he died is when I tuned out as well, and never looked back. The disservice to his character was my last straw
Carl's death was our final nail in the coffin. Never looked back after that. These producers don't appreciate how easily an audience can be lost given our wealth of options.
They jumped the shark with alot of strange things that had no place on the show.
The biggest problem with shows like this is they don't know when to end. They think they can just keep going.
True when they ran out of creative ideas. You did think that figured out to do that for 2 seasons first just in case the show make it to season 2. Than create more interesting storylines for the next 2 seasons.
@@serene1275 to me the season should had ended in season 6 where Negan kills the camera man, the audience.
Yep. What a lot of producers don't understand it's better to end a series leaving the audience wanting more rather than the audience just begging for it to end. Those series that ended earlier than the audience really wanted, will be rewatched. Walking dead? Rarely.
This happened to Westworld too. Unlike TWD, there was no comic to grab ideas from. So after two seasons, they just... went with some bad ideas...
The problem for me with the show was not understanding what made the show great in the beginning. The first 3 seasons were great. Season 4 and 5 were okay, but then it just got terrible.
The problem I've always had with shows "where anyone can die" is that it leads me to simply stop getting invested in any of the characters.
Yes but TWD started to do it at random. Even the latter half of Game of Thrones saw character deaths that at least did make some sense and had their reasons (even if the context of the reasons made no sense). What i mean by that is that all the major deaths at least were plausible because characters had manuerved themselves into situations where death was certain and the common demoninator of the survivors was that they were smart enough to avoid these pitfalls. Stannis is the exception that confirms this rule. TWD just killed its characters for absolutely no reason with no foreshadowing that they might be headed this way. People rooted for Robb Stark because he was the heroic leader of the resistance, but with people like Tyvin (best character ever) and Cersei running the political landscape the Red Wedding was hardly surprising, increasing the impact of his death. GoT Season 8 rubbed a lot of people wrong because D&D made it abundantly clear that they were over this show (why they never handed over showrunning duties to someone else is beyond me though) and rushed the ending, bending the characters around the plot, not the other way around, like it was in Seasons 1 to 4. I myself could not really watch TWD to begin with, as i started noticing the show triggering my anxieties (entirely unrelated to the plot, i just have a generalized anxiety disorder), so i only read the summarizations of the plot and thought to myself how dumb this whole story sounded. Parts of it started to sound like a parody of itself, like a Telenovela with hardcore violence involved.
@@Donnerbalken28 Just curious because it's been a while and I've forgotten a lot from GoT, but how is Stannis the exception?
@@JinxedRonny Because Stannis decisions become increasingly illogical from Season 3 onwards. The same guy who defended his disfigured daughter against her delusional mother by any means, the same guy who believed so strongly on the rule of law that He aspired to take a crown He didn't want suddenly devolved into a bumbling Idiot who sacrifices his daughter and alienates his Soldiers? Come on now.
@@Donnerbalken28 oh yeah, that makes sense. Thank you so much for answering!
@@Donnerbalken28 It made sense tho, we know he was into believing supernatural stuff and whatever the red lady was saying from season 2. When he became desperate to win with little options, his soldiers dying around him, the logic he had from making those stupid decisions based on it flew out the window
Honestly Negan killing Glenn was when I left because seeing his head getting bashed in with his eye popping out was just a resolve to a kind of gore that I do not appreciate
the last lines about the show being the real walking dead killed me💀bro it was good (btw I struggled for some time trying to define things that dissapointed me in twd, but now after this essay it became much clearer, so thanks)
If you would have told me halfway through the show that losing Carl was what would make me quit I would not have believed you. He was a source of annoyance for me for so long, but in the Negan arc I really was starting to like him. He was showing signs of who he was going to grow up to be, and I was excited to see him become the badass protagonist that had grown up in this world. They could have killed off Rick, and had Carl slowly emerge as a new leader and I would have watched the fuck out of it, it would have been a smooth transition to the next generation. By killing Carl they killed the future of their world.
They did kill Rick off just not yet
NO DUDE FR!!
Carl is overrated he caused a lot of problems for the group multiple times, he was a pretty useless character because there was not a moment i can remember that he helped the group
The actor wasn't very good and he was turning 18 so they'd have to pay him adult rates so they killed him instead They used his sister as his replacement character
@wigglybacon2250 I am with you 100%. I could not believe it when, after Carl's "arc" made me care about him again... They killed Carl. "By killing Carl they killed the future of their world." Bang on.
From the 1st episode it felt like we were following the struggles of Rick and what life would be like. So when Rick left so did I.
Amen bruh Also i didnt like that walkers turned to comical sunday villains
I left After 4 episodes of season 2. Came back to give it another chance but left after season 3 when my suspicions were confirmed. This show became rudderless after season 1 and each season exposed how badly it was drifting. Rick's character died and became a hypocrite after season 1 and he became a terrible character in season 2 and 3. Repeating the same mistakes, blaming others, tried to be heartless, then gave some Moral pep hooray talk to try to get the group's trust again while alleviating his guilty conscience. It was unbearable to watch.
@@mysteryace2129 Rick wasn't a hypocrite
@@mysteryace2129 he killed those who needed to be to protect himself nothing to lessen his morality he didn't kill those who weren't a threat to him
for me as a comic reader the whole story for me was carls tale so when he left i left
Great video and superb efforts🎉
When I watched the show, I saw its future in the character of Carl. So when they killed him off, I didn't quite know what the show was trying to be anymore.
Carl never dies and gets a ton of development in the later issues of the comics
@@Julian-hw7eg I know. I wish the TV show had done the same.
As someone who doesn't like the zombie genre, glad to finally get an insight into this phenomenon
You're definitely not alone. I never thought I would fall for the zombie fever after this show took off, but honestly, I was so wrong about it. What makes TWD so incredible and gripping is that it's less of a generic zombie post apocalyptic story and focuses more on being a HUMAN story. Seeing how far humanity can be pushed one way or another when the chips are down and stakes are high is obviously nothing new, but the characters are what makes that premise work beautifully. If you're drawn to the idea of people struggling to not lose their morality and become monsters worse than the zombies they fight(while certain characters fail miserably), I highly recommend watching the first couple of seasons.
@@racheltorres668the way you've described it is exactly why I finally gave it a chance around season 4. I was OBSESSED with the first 4 seasons. I'm not even halfway through the video and it's spot on.
same i hate like 90% of zombie media 😭
Watch The Last of Us, it's less about the zombies and rather about how people might deal with the end of civilization
@@LuisSierra42 As someone who disliked zombie stuff but liked the first game the thing that opposed TLOU from the others was the fact that "zombies" were never called zombies. They weren't the focus of the story tbh. It was more of this found family trope that most people are more receptive to. So I don't really think that TLOU or medias like Train To Busan or All Of Us Are Dead could make someone like the zombies genre imo.
As someone who’s never seen this show, I actually thought it ended ages ago, because after the Negan reveal, I quit hearing about it online. I assumed the Negan season was the final, or something 😂
same wow, I quit around when negan was being introduced. Thought it ended with it.
Same. Was Shocked when I saw a video in KZhead 2 years later talking about the post Negan years. Why was this recommended and why was this show still on the air? Haunting questions
Same, except I didn't know anyone's names - I just hadn't heard anyone talk about this show for like five years. When this video came up in my auto-play queue I actually checked its upload date, because I assumed it must be a few years old.
What I was surprised by is that people dropped it because it got bad. It was always bad lol
@@borissand3891 It started out amazing and had a slow, gradual decline, that turned into a swift rocketing plummet.
For me, like many, the show died when Glenn did. I did keep watching and even after Carl died I kept watching, I simply wanted to know what happened next, how our characters feel with losing (imo) 2 of the most important characters in the group. But I felt like nothing changed, It was just sad and danger on repeat. There wasn't an episode that made me go "im quitting the show completely." like Arrow did when they killed Dinah Laurel Lance, I just sorta phased it out and didn't keep up with the show. I kept up with my favorite characters Daryl, Carol, Michonne and Maggie through fan arts and posts but that was it. Then I heard of Maggie and Negan getting a show together and that cemented my dislike for the show.
Honestly, the idea of a Walking Dead universe does make sense. I'm sure many people in many countries tried at some point to imagine a Walking Dead series set up in their country, in places they knew. They couldn't have predicted that it would go south this badly.
The biggest problem with Fear the Walking Dead was because it was advertised as a prequel that would explain a lot that the original show didn’t get to since it started a month or so into the apocalypse. But literally after like a season or two it had a BIG TIME JUMP to catch up with the show without doing anything that was advertised at all.
That really was not it for me I was actually enjoying it more than The Walking Dead but then they killed off my favorite character Troy and then Nick and replaced them with such boring characters that I could not care about if I tried. 2 seasons based on family dynamics and interesting characters and everyone but the boring daughter is instantly gone.
and the latest season is crazy, i am not too happy
The biggest problem with fear the walking dead for me was that it was boring and unnecessary from day one, Episode 1 and only got worse. These multiple spin offs do nothing but dilute the quality and resource from the man walking dead show..
@@barryhercules6486 i love fear, it is a good show, i mean kind of like how the star wars prequels suck but i am intrigued by the characters a little still
Yup that is how i feel too. I was hyped for it, and LOVED season 1. That whole "earth falling apart" type feeling. But by season, it was just like the main story. So i haven't seen since then
The most egregious thing about the Glenn fake out death is that the way he fell and the circumstances behind the situation would have made it IMPOSSIBLE for the following events to play out as we see them. For me, it was the first major example of the show prioritizing shock value and cliffhangers over anything else
It was infuriating that he survived it, and then infuriating again when they just knock him off anyways
I remember watching that episode with my family, and I guessed exactly what was going to happen.
He died in the comics. If they stuck to the outline of the comics and didn’t fill the latter half of the show with poorly shot, never ending gunfights that looked like updated footage from Miami Vice, it could have been awesome.
The most infuriating part for me was that when a death normally happens, they show up on talking dead, or the producers say something “heartfelt”. This was the first time they broke the 4th wall and said that Glenn’s story is yet to be finished……meaning if anyone rage quit, they’d be incentivised to return and the ratings got a boost
@@blakegriffith1835 Exactly, they forced that due to "it happened in the comics", then ignored other awesome and important stuff in the comics. Ugh.
I stopped after season 4 after realizing how formulaic it had become. The show left my field of vision for years until i saw some marketing for season 10 and I remember thinking "how the fuck have they kept this story going for that long?"
Season 2 makes sense that it was slow paced though, they had been given some stability with that farm after the scramble and then escaping the CDC, in the comic they were on the road a lot longer than what the show perceives so it makes sense they want to slow down and try to settle. The slow burn of they've made it to the horde that comes and clears them right at the end was an amazing feature