How Much Should an EICR Cost?
Join me as I rant about the prices some people are expecting for Electrical Installation Condition Reports and what we can do about it...
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If a sparky is submitting 4/5 eicr reports a day then the body they are affiliated to should question this and go and inspect their work
no chance they want the membership fees too much .
i was an electrician in london 10 years ago, i wasnt expensive, and i did a proper job, but as cheap as i was i still got undercut on lots of jobs, and sometimes found people coming back to me months later because what the other guy did had gone wrong for various reasons. stick to your principles so you can sleep at night.
Totally agree, thanks for sharing your thoughts
I've just had one done at the house I rent. Guy was excellent. Don't know what he charges but he took off a lot of sockets and pendants. Took the consumer unit cover off and tested all the circuits and bonding. He was a really nice chap too, happy to chat about what he was doing and showed me the readings etc. The person who actually owns my house owns around 100 properties so he must be a pretty decent guy using a good electrician like this. They do exist!!
they have to take cover off socket outlets etc to do a visual for possible damage or maybe a wire dropped out the visual is also most important light fittings etc etc its all part and parcel of the job charging depends on what area you live in as well i used to be sparky fully qualified city and guilds but it got rediculas what they were asking for in the time span aloted for each job
@@spookyboo3164 Yes, exactly my point. Jordan is talking about some electricians not even going on to the property and writing a certificate. My point is, the guy who came to my house had no idea that I knew a little about what was involved. They could have spent half an hour and said it was all ok, but they didn't. They did a really good and thorough job and hats off to them.
Exact experience that we have at present. Sticking to our pricing and not getting in to price wars. I have found the Landlords that are willing to pay for a decent report are also the ones that want any Remedials, if any are identified, completed to current standards and don’t then look to cut corners there. I have same pricing model of either half day or whole day for domestic installations.
Had a number of customers tell me the price is over double what others quote. Maybe I should have educated them at the time and seeing this encourages me to do so, thank you for sharing :)
Hi Jordan, I was the guy giving you a thumbs up from the end of your drive as I was working next door on Friday 😂 didn’t want to pester you for a ride in the Tesla but I will say here I’ve been a long time watcher, so to pull up there made my day. Enjoy your weekend mate, all the best in growing your business this year 👍💪
Good video Jordan I hope this brings awareness. I done an EICR recently on a 2 bed property in Reigate, Surrey for a landlord. The tenant had said a young lad had spent just 15 minutes there and the tenant informed the landlord of this. So I got a call from the landlord to go and check the property again, which is refreshing and not to make a generalisation but a lot of landlords probably wouldn't have bothered with a second opinion and another EICR if it had a satisfactory pass. I'm glad the landlord did because what I found would have made any electricians jaw drop. The meter tails where completely burnt out on an old Wylex rewireable board I couldn't even undo the tails they were welded onto the main switch terminals (wish I could post a picture on here). No bonding to water and gas main when he stated it was in place and no earth on lighting circuit which he also stated was in place with an R1 R2 reading with metal light switches/light fittings installed. I doubt he had even opened the fuse board to have a look. The whole EICR system needs a shakeup how are so called electricians getting away with this.
Agree with everything you say in this video, we have exactly the same issues in our business
maybe you could make a new EICR video? I love to watch them and maybe you could also use it to show customers what it takes and what they get when they hire you.
I Feel you Bro and as a Electrician for over 30 years I lose a lot of EICR due to the fact clients say I'm too dear as 'Bodge it & Leg It' quoted £100.00, I just walk away and say good Luck! as I as rule of Thumb Charge £180.00/£200.00 for a Small Flat, 2 Bed House £260.00 and it goes up from there after if extra Bedrooms, Garages & Out building etc are included as I check for Earthing, sample accessories socket points, switches points, light fitting points etc...never a 2 hour job as you have you I.R. Continuity & loop testing, & a pet hate for me is that the boards are never correctly Labeled up for circuits locations so there's also Faffing around working out whats protection What! which is what good Sparkies do... so I would rather lose to cheap quotes than, than follow the narrative of those 'Drive By' so Called 'Electricians' I like to earn money ..but not Dishonest money! A good point you made about LIM on Certs & Reports, that should not be ruled out as a complete test and outcome should not be valid, as it is not complete & another date to complete what was LIM ie someone is working from home at the time of 1st EICR and a circuit for P.C. could not be tested etc. to complete the report. which is the next step we have to push, as LIM on circuits that were not tested don't mean its safe on a Report issued by 'Bodge it & Leg It' that say Satisfactory does it! as Landlords, sorry 'Land Persons' excuse my PC, want thing done as cheap as possible buts as we good Electricians want thing done as they should be, so we can sleep well at night with our families and know we did a what we were paid for, as if you take short cuts & cut corners you have to think to yourself what if it was my Home with my Family & Kids etc Great Vid as I feel the Battle ahead as we have to stand Strong and push the bar up Higher with the for Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020. as the Government have listened before and hopefully will amend what is needed to Bring in a Gold Standard of the Land Persons EICR Regard Tony Jelade Electrical Services
I’m with you on this. We have lost a lot of work from the price war. I even approached 5 estate agents in my local town and they all said I was to expensive. Customers have also come back to me after losing the job to ask for a second opinion after the cheap “spark” quoting massive prices for remedial work. Most of the time the remedial work isn’t even needed.
Agreed this start happening now
I was taken on for a few weeks by a well known electrical systems manufacturer. They had recently had an EICR completed by a firm that I thought did hand towels and such like but have branched out into electrical testing. They had quoted a little over £20,000 for the remedials, a small part of which was replacing all the breakers in three 32 way boards due to insufficient breaking capacity. I looked at the sheets, all the boards were fitted with 10k breaking capacity breakers and alarms went off in my head. I was wtf, I looked at the pfc and they had it at 41KA. Now even though one of the boards was inside the sub station there's no way your getting that high a fault current. I redid the tests and sure enough it was 4.1KA they'd not read the decimal point, on all three boards. What worries me is what were they going to replace them with, far as I know 10k is max breaking capacity for 60898 or 61009 or am I wrong?
I worked for a company a few years ago that had a housing association company for a client. The housing association said they only wanted visual inspections done on their properties for new tenants moving in literally just a tick sheet! and that they would get another company to check it periodically 5 years. It was stopped soon after and full EICRS done when new tenants move in at an empty property where the sockets were tripping and the housing association wasn't going to pay for the visit as they said we should of picked the fault up in which the reply you insisted on visual checks only and no eicrs so we are not responsible for the installation.
Thanks Jordan for these video's I'm a relatively new electrician but with Napit and had the blessing to cut my cloth in North London with my brother in law who was a very experienced electrician, he held to the same standards that you do and as I do now. Most of the properties I come across are not new builds so I'm spending a good day with older properties which have alterations, signs of wear and tear etc. I often find that a good reading can be obtained say on an R1R2 test of a ring circuit once you really figure out how the circuit is configured, but this takes time, so how drive by EICR's can be done is beyond me, particularly when the purpose of an EICR is to determine if the installation is safe for continued use. Keep the video's coming they are very helpful.
Jordan, just watched several of your videos today which i feel have helped me a lot with the EV charging course I'm doing at the moment. This video I have definitely had experience of (and makes me see red), The Drive by EICR. The last customer who i gave a price to told me I was twice as expensive as the first price she had received, and after the first 'sparkie' did the EICR she ended up with a quote for remedial works for over £1,500.00 for a partial rewire, that she didn't need. It turned out the guy was only there for half an hour and for 15 minutes of that he was drinking tea. It takes me 15 minutes to get set up with dust sheets, tools, tester and paperwork. But listening to your excellent rant and the comments of other decent sparkies, well it's good to know there are still proper trades people out there, so yes as was said on a previous comment 'stick to your principals'. And keep making the vids
David Savery done a video about this same subject where he goes through all the mistakes and contradiction on one of these worthless bits of paper.
@Lister Smeg or * has done innitt ;- )
Oooooh ,, A full colour PDF report, with Pictures,,, A true Artisan right there
Couldn't agree more with what you have said. I teach electrics at WMD ELECTRICAL TRAINING and am constantly being told by electricians that they are doing 4 or 5 EICRS a day. They are in the Sub contract area of the industry where many local authority housing councils, associations etc pay such a low fee that they are in effect forced to do this. If this bad practice is going to change it needs to be at the top with the IET, Competent Person Schemes, Councils and Associations policing it correctly. It should take 4 to 8 hors including all paperwork as you have stated, to do the job correctly. Sampling, used for large commercial and industrial installations should not be applied to Domestic installations at all. Glad you have voiced this concern for all concerned. Once again, another great video. Well done.
Hey Jordan, have you ever thought of providing a generic sample report? To show the level of work someone may expect from your company. Even if it's just emailing a PDF, people will stew in their decisions when comparing it to the single piece of paper they'll receive. You don't have to provide it every time, but at least have it as an option. I see it as the easiest way to educate your hesitant customers. Love the content and can't wait to see what y'all are coming up with. Keep up the great work!
I totally agree with your approach to completing an EICR in terms of the time taken to do it correctly and to be able produce an accurate report. I think the letting agents are the people who need targeting and educating in what's involved in producing a report that actually reflects the condition and scope of the wiring system. From my recent experience the letting agents seem quite happy to accept the £100-00 "Drive-by EICR" Surely they have a duty of care firstly for their tenants and secondly for the landlords who they happily take their monthly commission from.
Hi, you're absolutely right in this case. I'm based in London and experienced that competition. I had situations when I quoted £250+ for EICRs and customers took £80-100 guys with totally worthless paperworks and ridicurosly high quotes for fabricated remedial works... They were coming back to me crying about that situation. I don't know what is wrong with our trade, but we received amazing gift from goverment and we all could easily earn good money on EICRs and remedials and improving the standards of electrical installations in rental properties, complying a mission of keeping safe for everyone. Unfortunately some untrackable idiots are milking for easy shit money without thinking about future. We could easy charge £500+ for this, but what we can do... In my opinion we really should take example of Gas Safe and apply that to our industry. Thank you for this video, greetings from London!
For many years now an electrician working for a company is instructed when working on social housing that he as to do 4 EICR a day, they inform me that they can't do 4 in a day to the correct standards, yet the NICEI c take no action, G.j.morris Electrical
The only way they can do it is to put limitations through the report. I was told to do the same on social housing properties but didn't last long (3 days) with the company that employed me.
In Germany, the costs are around 120 - 250€, depending on the size of the flat / house and the electrical installation. We have similar problems with this here. Unfortunately, only a few companies do a really thorough EICR (we call it an E-check). Many companies give their employees just 1 - 1.5 hours for it, which is definitely too little for a thorough check.
Ultimately if the inspection is being done for the good reasons (safety, improvement, genuine interest) then cost can't be the main differentiating factor. By the way, do you cover Oxfordshire?
Hitting this problem all the time in my area,North East England,we were quoting from £140/£180 for a full EICR and were constantly been given the too expensive story at that price,i rarely do them now, so many guys just sitting writing them out with a cup of coffee that no one wants to pay over £100,its just not worth the amount of hours to do one properly and get paid peanuts
I,m now a licensed taxi driver in London. Was a sparky over 30 years. It’s called the Uber effect. People just want cheap. They say; Uber drivers are taxi drivers too; why don’t you drop your prices? No one cares about your overheads, working to the regs or your training. Unfortunately it is a race to the bottom.
Totally agree with you, we have had some interesting chat with people on this topic, when you give them the price it’s always “I can get it for half that”!! But, there is another point to this, we were given another EICR to look at by a customer, seemed a bit vague, so looked into who did it. It was basically a general builder, registered under a Part P scheme. So, what’s their ‘qualification’ to under take an EICR? For Part P all you need is Initial Verification. To me, that’s not really enough to be inspecting someone else’s work. From my experience there are a few out there who are not adequately experienced / qualified to do these inspections.
I know a bloke down the pub called Roy, he's pretty good and can do remote EICR's which are guaranteed a satisfactory outcome. £40 Inc VAT 👌
haha! we all know a bloke like that!
Thanks for the shout out Brad. I'll give you a discount on your next EICR.
Wow genius
@@roydowling2542 No worries Roy, appreciate that mate 👍 see you soon when the pubs open back up
Have you got his number?
I am so glad you put this video on. I am an electrician living in a rented property, but my landlord has arranged for another electrician to do the EICR. When he got in touch with me to arrange when to do it, he said it would take an hour. My first thought was that’s never long enough to do a test and inspection. Let’s see what the report he will produce says. But your video made me feel better, and that I am not alone in how long it takes me to do a thorough EICR. Half a day/full day per EICR.
🤓 can’t wait to hear the result!
We run a computer/electronic shop, specialising on components level. Sadly we too suffer similar issues. A big thumb up for maintaining your values, just like we do here at iTC. 😊👍👍👍
Hi Jordan, had 26 jobs taken out of my hands on a government job and turned out all the TNCS supplies turned into TT supplies when the new guy. looked at the first two and copied and pasted the results to them all ...your Dublin friend....nevin
Very well put. Keep the good work going.
This is brilliant. I had the same issue recently with a customer. Told me my price sounded steep, explained almost identically to what you’ve said here. Got the job and after being there five hours she said she couldn’t believe people quoted £60 for a ten way board
Ehh 60quid for a board....wow I was qouted 470quid
Approximately £150 - £200 for a 2/3 bedroom house upto 10 circuits then £25 per circuit there after. We lose a lot of EICR's even at that rate. Lots of companies carrying out EICR's where we're based as a massive university with student let's around the area but some of the prices we've lost too are ridiculous. We've tested properties which have been tested by these companies and suprise suprise our readings/reports differ massively.
Excellent video and stick to your guns! My old boss used to say... 'They'll remember the quality long after they've forgotten the price'. You can't buy back you're reputation. Once it's lost, it'll never come back.
Charge what you want for your time. If you're self employed, dont fight for chump change.
I’m with you. Integrity and honesty are the priority. We don’t want the business of any customer who wants to cut corners. They are not worth our time. Stick to your prices. Quality will win out in the end.
Ok Jordan. I’m interested in how I should go about when ringing around and ask the right questions etc, what to reveal etc. Maybe do a video on it? 🤷♂️ I’m residential owner, I know my CU needs replacing, it’s an old crappy Wylex one, the lights in bathroom upgrading to IP safety rated and change kitchen lights so I can install HUE lights and maybe a fan in the bathroom and probably a few other small bits. I’ve lived in my property for 10 years or so and not got round to doing this so I’m thinking also an EICR to be done first so that I can ensure that no other issues arises / crops up and ensures the work is done safely. This is my conundrum Should I just ask for an EICR and not mention the other stuff to prevent the cash register and get impartial review / wait for them to actually see what needs doing. Or be up front and say I need new cu, house checking over with the EICR and other bits doing. I’ve educated myself by watching your videos and other YT electricians. Eg I’ve learnt that I need to get the main electricity company in to put an isolator so that the old CU is safe, and the earthing needs doing properly. Plus I have no idea if the new CU will fit in the small cupboard! I find it frustrating that I want to be up front but I know there are con men out there and I don’t want to get ripped off. Yea I’m going to do the usual ask people I know who they would recommend. From watching this video I’ve leaned, an good EICR could be a minimum 3-4 hours Labour, photos in report etc. If I lived in Cambridge I’d give you a ring but unfortunately your other end of the country lol. Edit Also I know that I want my CU installed nicely all tailed off, I don’t want it looking like a rats nest, I feel that I should be checking on my electrician as he cracks on with the job as I can’t exactly alter it afterwards haha Edit 2 - sorry for the long reply I’d love to hear your thoughts on how to tackle it.
Ask what extent of sampling they will be doing? Will they be testing 100% of circuits, how long will it take? Will they need access to all the sockets, light switches etc, what limitations will they put on the report? This should give you an indication of what they are like.
@@artisanelectrics Excellent, thanks for replying, I’ll add that to my list of questions! 👍
I'm with you Jordan, It's supposed to be a report of the condition of the electrical installation, and is it satisfactory for continued use not just take some loop readings and RCD tripping times.
Thanks
I completely agree with everything you have said in your video, too many people these days cut corners for the sake of making a few quid. It can be potentially dangerous when unsafe wiring is left undetected because people won't pay for things to be done properly. I always watch you videos and think you're doing a great job, keep up the great work and keep teaching people how it should be done....
Great video. I'm a landlord and agent and I find it frustrating when landlords want EICRs done cheap. It takes time and unless they ramp down the time taken it can't be done while having a test result that reflects the reality of the installation tested.
Hi Jordan. I watched your video rant on the price of EICR’s. As a fully qualified and NICEIC registered electrician myself, I give the customer the analogy of an EICR being much like having an MOT on their car. If the garage just took a look at the car, had a quick walk around and said, yep, everything is absolutely fine, then would you trust their (a) judgement and (b) professionalism? I know I wouldn’t. Another guide I give them, is that “time wise” it should take approx 45 minutes per DB to do the basic tests, PFC, Ze, check main bonds and start the paperwork, PLUS, approx 20 minutes per circuit. In other words, an EICR of a 10-way DB should take around 4 hours. The flip side of so called “dodgy” electricians carrying out super quick EICR’s, is that I am receiving a good number of their EICR’s for a second opinion and more often than not, the remedial works too. Keep up the good work! ATB. Paul
we had a similar set up, customer rang up wanting a EICR on a 4 bed. gave him a estimate price over the phone, they are very hard to price as you cant see the installation. always ask the question are there any off peak boards ? any external power/ submains going out to sheds or garages. anyway we gave him a price of £200 was probably cheap but it was of the top of my head, but he turnt round and said i am the most expensive quote he had received he was quite rude and blunt over the phone about it all. straight away i said thank you sir and put the phone down not worth the hassle. occupied (rental) houses are the worst, you tell the tenants i will be here for around 3 - 4 hours depending on the size of the installation, and i explain that power will be going on and of for testing purposes etc. they get so high rated about it all and complain, even worse now that everyone is working from home. people just expect we are going to be there for 30 mins and thats it.
I'm with you Jordan. As soon as they say they have had someone offer to do it for x amount of £'s I Inform them that they are very unlikely to be doing a proper job, wish them good luck and let them crack on. I've told every letting agency that has contacted me so far to jog on to the next mug as they want to dictate a low price.
Hey Jorden, welcome to our world.... i'm a heating engineer and we have had this race to the bottom of cheap quoting for boiler installs for years, the industry overall including the manufacturers have tried to get tougher but if some guy under cuts you and chucks a boiler in, then does not register it or answer his phone when it goes tits up who is culpable. Good rant, very familiar.
Heating industry is suffering since Capita took over running Gas safe. Likewise with NICEIC, now its run as a business rather than a consumer protection charity. Standards and professionalism have taken a serious downward turn. Electrical industry suffers more, as their regulations are not Law.
Nice insight Jordan.
I totally get it. I sympathise. It's a (an understandable) problem. I respect your stand which will help maintain your reputation (in the long run). It can only be a good thing to educate the service user/s. Stay safe. Paul Newmarket, Suffolk.
Totally with you on this. I have a friend who is a Landlord and I've quoted her for her EICR's and she's happy with that and I'm doing her flats later this week. However she's let me know that on a landlords forum she's on, landlords are expecting to be quoted no more than £80 REGARDLESS of the size of property !! I've already been approached by one of these "company's" who want me to work full time doing 4 or more EICR's a day. Needless to say I told them where to go. Yes I'm losing business, but I'm not going to get involved in this war, cut my prices and cut corners. I'm not putting my name to a report that isn't finished, because it's my business on the line, if there is a subsequent fire or injury and my report said it was safe. Not happening. I think the rules need tightening. I couldn't even offer EICR's until I'd taken 2391-52, as Napit wouldn't sign off my reports, nor my insurance company. Personally I go over and above whats required. Full EICR report, with photographs and an attached document that describes my recommendations - and remember an EICR can ONLY result in recommendations, even C1's - it's up to the Landlord if its acted on, and it's their responsibility if they don't.
I'm gas engineer and people are doing "boiler service" for as little as £30 and landlord gas safety checks for £30... boiler service should be a full strip down and clean and can easily tot up well over £100-£150. Gas safety checks take time checking everything! Annoying when I say to customer "service will be £120 + service kit (gaskets etc) £60 total £180... And they act like your ripping them off cos they have already had a quote for £35! Really piss me off and I nearly packed it all in cos of it!
I'm a landlord and had one done in the summer. Agent offered deal about £120, same for every property, although they obvs differ in scope. Mine's a small 1 bed flat with 5 circuits. I read all the relevant regs and EICR coding, so could monitor what they did. It was obvious from the report that they wanted work and coded it accordingly. They put the recommendations in the wrong place instead if just reporting. One circuit they claimed was not possible to identify. I wanted an upgrade and an honest report of the condition, but they just wanted to replace MCBs with RCBOs in old plastic enclosure! When I wrote back querying each individual point, referring to the regs by number, the agent never got a reply. I had to find my own person, from hundreds of miles away, and luckily he was honest, thorough and decent. Charged about the same as the drive-by guys quoted, but did a full CU and earthing upgrade. It's just the same as the MoT scams - you believe and trust what they say and do and it's hard to know what's true. I take my cars to the council depot for MoTs as they don't do any work on private vehicles.
It would be interesting to see a report from a cheap inspection com paired to one of your ones
Yep I’ve not had any problems with pricing but i test a maximum of 2 properties a day and its a push with a few hours at the night time to finish the paperwork. I do a 30% visual check of accessories and i know im cheap but in Hull people are doing what you said with board swaps going at £850 plus vat from the companies.
Hi, you stick to your principles. Clearly the best way you are thinking and keeping your integrity sound.
Yes! Thank you!
We have the same problem with pre-purchase building surveys. We have 35+ years experience so we charge more than a building surveyor who just qualified. Most clients are only interested in price not quality.
Well you can do 3 to 4 in a day but to type them down on nic it takes a while but do it after the tests we do check the bonds connection take loop and KA and take end to ends on rings then insulation resistance at 500 v then take loops and rcd times if possible on every circuit that’s all you need also the earthing system but we also check every outlet with a Martin dail so I would say 2-3 hours work but the REM’s are normally an ip rated light in bathroom and if an old build a board change and spots that aren’t fire rated
My neighbour who is a tenant passed my number on to his landlady to do the Eicr as he trusts me more,which I had to turn down as I'm employed so not registered to do private Eicrs,The landlady said she had a quote for £65 which is for a 2 bed flat which I said to be wary as it seemed quite cheap but maybe possible as there are just 4 circuits and said to her to ask how much is being tested and visually inspected and how long it will take.
I’ve been to some new builds that haven’t put grommets in the 20mm hole in the metal stud. Garage D/Bs supplied in 2.5 T&E with holes in the top of the DB. Signed off by an nic/eic registered company.
2.5 fed from 16 or 20A breaker in most cases is fine. DB in garage is OTT for most people. But the holes are obvs not good.
Hi Jordan by the way what qualifications do I need to carry out EICR 18th edition and Testing inspecting or there may be some other courses? 🤔
I'm soo glad you said this, I worked for one of these companies and it didn't last long, I ended up having a panic attack! Now I spend at least half a day on one and actually enjoy it...kind of..
Totally agree that the race to the bottom is a problem. Opting out is the right thing to do. Although, I wonder if there is a way to offer a discount on remedial work following an EICR? Might be a sweetener for customers who accept a drive by EICR just to be compliant, but not want to risk a cowboy job when it comes to remedial work? I'm not an electrician, but i'd imagine doing remedial work at a property where one of your guys did the EICR saves a bit of time because you go there knowing exactly what to expect.
I agree 100% with what you have said about EICR prices. We should stick to our standards and pricing after all we are doing them a favour with our expert assessments. The more detail that is recorded on these certificates the more the landlords (or anyone else asking for an EICR) are protected which some do not understand or don't want to understand and this all takes time and a conscientious approach. After all we are trained professionals and should value ourselves as such. Do not join the race to the bottom, its not worth it. I know of a couple of electricians in the Midlands who are now serving prison sentences because of taking short cuts in testing and inspection work. The NICEIC even sent letters out to its members as a result of the court case, the media attention and sadly the death that resulted.
I have a small number of landlords I work with who are willing to pay what's needed to get the jobs done. The majority of others that call me up get given the price and I never hear from them again. Like you said, there are too many offering to do them cheap and that's all most landlords seem to be interested in.
you are the best, yes this what l explain to all the people that ask me for EICR's, and they complain about the prices. We pay insurances, tools, certificates etc.plus we need to survive, this trade is going down unfortunately :(
fair rant and really interesting discussions down in these comments. As a Glasgow landlord of primarily 2 bedroom flats the average I paid for my last batch was £140 each. I might start timing them as I don't think I've had a spark in yet who was in for more than an hour.
A two bed flat needn't take much more than that assuming you only have one switch/pendant per room.
Well said. In my area there are loads of Domestic Installers “Electricians” that aren’t qualified or competent, without the correct insurance and just cracking on doing these reports. So with all my overheads plus the effort of gaining qualifications i’m always getting priced out. For our customers I believe the understanding of the qualifications and insurance is what they need i.e. 2391 (or equivalent) is not as easy to understand as being gas registered, I came across someone in my area that was selling himself as a 2377 inspector conducting EICR’s. Something really does need to happen with this and also with part-p.
Pat tester 😂
Hi mate, what reporting software do you use?
I consider myself an educated customer having watched hundreds of hours of KZhead electrician videos. I don't want a cheap job I want a good job but it's hard to find a contractor you know you'll get this from. I think this brand has potential and if you ever setup in the north west let me know. People are willing to pay when they know!
Thanks a lot! I totally agree
@@artisanelectrics same let me know know if you ever set up in the northwest👍🏿👍🏿
I live in London and my landlord had scheduled an EICR by what seems like a fairly large building services company. Long story short, they arrived on the wrong day and while showing me that he was meant to be there that day, he showed me his planner for his day on his phone. He had one hour alloted to the job in my 2 bed flat and there was at least another 6 jobs after that one. It's been rescheduled to this Saturday so I'm looking forward to see what they will do in an hour.
Wow that illustrates exactly what I’m talking about, it’s scary
it takes like 20 minutes just to fill in the cert, or it does for me on the iphone i do it on lol allow 10 minutes for set up so hes got 30 minutes to actually inspect
Well said Jordan. No excuses, either carry out the work correctly or find another trade.
Love your honesty, we got screwed when we moved to our house, £300 for an "EICR" and a couple of other jobs, Paperwork never arrived and now i've started to look deeperI i now realise he didn't test anything! OH well i'm older and wiser now.............Do you cover surrey by any chance?
Nick Bundy had something like this happen where an agent didn't pay him/the landlord. its a joke that some electricians just con people its what you get though then they are "professionals"
Remember that one, it was an estate agent who asked him on behalf of the landlord, (weird) Because landlord didn't pay them, then they wouldn't pay him. Legality is questionable as his contract is with the estate agent and the work was carried out as requested.
@@stevelambert6689 yeah mate exactly jusy hopefully some of his subs help him to get this video watched just so he's aware
Had something similar a year ago when I was testing a flat (EICR) for a client when the agent popped in to take pictures puzzled he asked what I was doing? He was even more shocked when I was PAT and FAT testing too which he never heard about before?🤔 The agents are just as bad in my experience, 2 weeks ago I was changing an extraction fan and a TT driving blue suited fake Rolex wearing idiot was going over the potential sale with my client when he said he knew a bloke who could write out a certificate for him🙄
Sorry Jordan but working in old council properties in Glasgow, we had 2 hours maximum to do 2 bedroom houses with storage heaters. The time was agreed with unions. And I would be bang on 2 hours with all testing done. Paperwork done in the van later. I could get 3 done a day. I was knackered at the end of the day but it can be done.
With a big list of limitations no doubt.
If you were doing paperwork later it was taking you more than two hours.
I used to work for a company which said you could do a full test on a 2 or 3 bed house in 2 hours
Electrician round here known for it, 45 quid eicrs. We call him the letterbox tester as its asif he looks through the letterbox and says 'pass'.
🤣
Some landlords have unwittingly been breaking the law for years. And most estate agents have been offering incorrect information enabling them to do so. The 'Landlords and Tenants Act 1985' requires that the electrical installation in a rented property is: safe when a tenancy begins and maintained in a safe condition throughout the tenancy. The only way to do this is to carry out a Electrical periodic inspection's The term 'Qualified Person' means a person who has been trained to carry out a series of Electrical testing procedures. Who has a firm understanding of Electrical craft principles and a understanding of current electrical wiring regulations. ( An electrician who has completed a number of City and Guilds course etc) This work is not notifiable to building control so does not require a company who is a member of the competent person's scheme. (NICEIC ,STROMA, NAPIT ETC) So don't be fooled into thinking, that these companies are the only ones able to carry out the electrical testing.
I feel this is an area NICEIC/NAPIT etc should and could be involved in. Any certs completed through their online portals could be sampled for excessive/unreasonable limitation usage in between yearly in person QS checks.
We certainly pay a lot of money to them every year they should monitor it.
I keep getting asked to do EICR's and my method of getting them is to not want to do them in the first place. It's surprising how many people are searching for sparks that don't like doing EICR's to actually do their EICR's. Though there are equal amounts of people I've refused to work for because they want a £50 EICR or no EICR at all and just work done and not signed off. The last EICR I got asked to do has cost the landlord a 70% rewire, new consumer unit and while that has been going on around 40k of work done to the property due to the last tenant turning it into a grow and DIY'ing electrics/ kitchen. Safice to say the EICR was free and some how I ended up doing the work even though I didn't really want the job.
Hi Jordan. Another great video. Agree with you on most things but think personally as business owners we will have to adjust our mindsets on EICR's. I charge a relatively above average EICR charge for my area and always will do. But I think we have to accept the reality that most rental properties in years to come would of had an inspection within the previous 5 years. If sampling is good it really shouldn't take more than 3 hours to inspect any property and charges should reflect this. It is not in ours and landlords interests to charge big prices and pull apart their properties every 5 years. For properties that have no record of inspections maybe we need to set a different price for these. But things are changing and if seek to get a steady stream of EICR's I think we will need to adapt.
Time to retrain and update your qualifications to the 18th Edition Amendment 2 methinks...?
Do you have any advice on how to choose which company to hire for electrical work? I feel like good online reviews etc aren't really enough to know that they are going to do everything properly.
I do the same thing as you, photos as evidence and a full report some of my reports with photos have been 20 pages long, I had a customer ask me to quote on an eicr carried out by someone and it was just full of limitations, no circuits were even tested, and It had one photo, of a plastic consumer unit with a hole that looks like he even drove own his screwdriver in the side, as there wasn't even any marks on this open wall why it should of been there.
I practically stopped doing Eicr's approx 3/4 years ago. If i do one nowadays it's a days pay. All done thoroughly, correct test results recorded & any remedials required. Safety is of utmost importance. It's only fair to the tennant, whilst protecting the Landlord and his property. Everybody wins in this scenario. :-) Otherwise, I say, "GET SOMEONE ELSE"
Would be interested to hear your views on why you decide to do essentially an IV on an eicr? not saying you are right or wrong because we can all view regs differently but I have never seen a reg that states this level of testing is needed Not hating, just interested to hear your point of view
Hi Jordan. I made the following comment to one of Mark Allison's vids, but I think it's worth saying it here too... My Mrs came home from her sister's today, making a point that a friend of hers in a rented property had their electrics checked with no messing about. Apparently the guy was in and out in about 10 mins... all done! She told me this as if it's a good thing, hinting towards my far slower (and more comprehensive) approach. So I opened up GN3 and asked her what massive chunk of work the guy doing the testing must have skipped. The conversation is ongoing and my blood boileth over!
Wow that’s crazy
@@artisanelectrics Apparently she has been told that she "needs" a new CU. My guess is that a plastic one was originally installed, and there is nothing actually wrong with it. I need to ask a few questions!
A lot of folk do cheap test and then hope to get it back on remedial works. Plus a lot don’t know how to test properly
I’m in a rental, and whilst here the landlady has scrimped on electrical work, adding an additional board (for the new circuits) rather than replacing the old wired fuses! So I have both. No EICR here yet. I’ll be watching the electrician if and when we get one.
Wired fuses are not automatically an EICR 'fail'. There may be lots of other issues if she has scrimped on works, but wired fuses themselves are compliant with the regs.
I recently quoted on a 7 bed, 25 room 104 circuit house £2650, which is less than the £30 per circuit I normally charge. I was then asked to match a quote of £2250, which I did as there were 2 other eicrs for the same company. I was given the 2 other eicrs but the big one I was told had gone to someone offering £1500!!
£1,500 ?? That's the average people's one month salary (eg. a soldiers who need to work away from home and work flexibly day or night, and under pressure!). So if you can make that £1,500 in a week, you should be very much grateful in my opinion. This reminds me again of why a litre bottle of water costs more expensive than a litre of milk which involves enormous farmer's work ??
@@bgurung9046 I think you miss the point but thanks for the comment
Great rant Jordan. We need an industry standard set out by our registered bodies of what a standardised EICR MUST include... eg full board and bonding test, testing of every circuit and to what extent is acceptable, a minimum acceptable sampling percentage of fittings etc etc Then it's more of a level playing field. Customers don't understand the difference of a pointless 'drive by' EICR verses a professional methodical EICR, they only understand the price difference!
Good rant Jordan👍, I avoid eicr’s like the plague. Dirty run down rental properties where landlords have had builders and odd job men messing with the electrical installation and now are surprised when you give them a report with lots of writing on it. I get a bit of work from a Facebook page where some joker is advertising “from£75”. It’s grim up North I usually charge min of £140 for two up two down terrace.
I avoid them now, cant be arsed with tiptoeing around people and dealing with all of their "life shit". Only do empty properties prior to being rented out or moved into. That way I can set up my music, laptop, food supplies and relax.
@@barnabybot An unoccupied EICR can be a genuine pleasure. Peace and quiet and an easy job to get on with for a few hours. on the flipside I did an occupied one yesterday for HA where the tenant was a hoarder with mental health issues, couldn't get at anything but the client accepted the limitations. I literally ran out of accessible stuff I could test or inspect after an hour which was OK by me as I couldn't wait to get out!
@@Blackf1ngers ha ha. Gawd, I'd never do shit like that. Private landlords only, or people getting a cert for someone's property who's passed on.
I feel your pain Mr.Artisan, I too am having to educate clients about the importance of a fully completed Eicr which includes the importance of using our electricwise eye balls and 'actually' drawing our very expensive calibrated torque drivers out of our Snicker drawers and 'actually' tightening those Meter tails that have worked slightly loose over the years, and would have remained loose should the client have opted for a drive by service. I am having to educate clients about the ' THE BIG BLUE BOOK' and how important it is that an 'actual' test meter ( my choice Megga btw ) is inserted into their outlets and probed into their fittings. The importance of 'actually' testing water bonds, gas bonds and getting a reading of under 0.05 ohms and recording it on the schedule, because we care. Not to mention the obvious visual checks along the way, such as unearthed class 1 fittings, broken accessories and taped up back boxes. It frustrates the utter s+=t out of me to Mr.Artisan. But as like you, I shall keep my standards, keep my prices, keep my dignity and sleep tight. Night night
Thanks and well done for maintaining your standards
Jordan, is it time the regulatory part of the business is separated from the contracting side? Like the building inspection system in MANY different countries?
Not sure how that would work
Well,I take your point .However you do charge almost three times as much an hour as I do for the same job in Aberdeen.
Looks like your the one missing out
I charge £130 for a two bed house. Check 20% accessories half a day. I do two a day and happy with my pricing. No need for massive prices
I could not survive with this pricing. Sorry bud
@@cnelson1338 you cant survive on £1300 per week labour ! wow
Working for a company yes but running a business, no. There is a big difference. Surely you see this?
@@cnelson1338 End of the day the customer pays more for overheads for running a big company. Im a one man band and happy to charge the rate i do for my customers.
@@simonbeal2148 but he won’t take that as salary, most will go into running costs and developing a stable business that will still be there in 5 years
Most definitely being affected, we are losing a lot of EICRs because of it. Recently a local customer sent me an EICR carried out by an electrician which had no number of points, no R1/R2s and a Ze which exceeded the maximum for a TNCS system. Thankfully he was smart enough to have withheld the payment as he smelt a rat with the guy who did the test. Although more expensive than the previous guy, the landlord accepted our cost. When we got to site and were still there over 2 hours later, the tenant complained saying the previous guy was there for less than half an hour! (there were 9 circuits in this installation) We always make clear to people that they do not have to use our company for the remedial work once we have issued the report. Last year, I quit working for a property management company after we lost out on several EICRs, guys doing 1 bed flats for £60.00+vat each. Also the same electrician told the management company that ALL plastic CCUs have to be replaced and were giving them code 2s every time
Having watched many consumer type programmes on TV over the years (Watchdog etc) they often had really bad practicing "builders", plumbers, electricians etc. However, no matter how bad they were, they still carried on even when confronted by the TV personnel. My question is - Why do the various trades in the building industry, mechanics, and other manual jobs not lobby the government to make it illegal to operate without a licence which can be easily removed if they are shown to be cowboys who not only rip off people but often put them in danger. The worse that these people can expect is that the boss is sometimes listed as not able to be a director of a firm but they do so and often shut down the firm in question and then instantly start up exactly the same thing under another name. The licence system could operate in a similar way that you cannot drive without a licence but would also require a sufficiently big enough punishment (such as imprisonment, loss of their own property etc) to act as as a real disincentive to operate without the requisite licence. This may seem like another layer of bureaucracy that may not be welcome but if it means that you get rid of the cowboys from your industry and give people more confidence when employing a tradesman (or woman) for any job that needs doing in a house, car, garden etc there surely could be no argument against it. There should be a simple means of reporting questionable practices and potentially removing people from being able to operate in the fashion that they are currently doing. If there are insufficient consequences for this behaviour and while good tradespeople, their trade organisations and the government cannot or will not be bothered to implement the kind of thing I suggest then this will carry on regardless with people not trusting tradespeople, being stressed about finding someone trustworthy and relable and having the opinion that no-one can be trusted. Is that what decent tradespeople actually want or are happy to accept ? It's a sad state of affairs when it could so easily be resolved.
Who polices the licences though? Long gone are the days when a man from the Ministry could turn up mid job and inspect the work you're doing...(if that ever happened in electrics, it certainly doesn't happen on civil works anymore). I doubt a building inspector does spot checks on building work these days either.
This is a great video and I'm glad It is not just me being affected by this.
Its very much like the MOT test certificate before it went computerised where youcouldbuy a "pass certificate" for a tenner without you having to move the car from your parking spot. When the tester starts the test he is timed on a secure login which allocates the scheduled time to complete the test. It doesn't necessarily stop poor quality testing, but it stopped the vast majority of dodgy certificates. Maybe they could have some sort of system like it.
You still can... They put a different actual car on the emission tester... and take the risk that an inspector doesn't turn up mid test...
@@paulbritton187 that's definitely under poor quality testing...😆
Hi Jordan, it took a Metropolitan housing electrician only 25 minutes to carry out an EICR on my one bedroom flat and he was gone in 40 minutes. Because, Metropolitan housing flats are generally the same in design layout one would or can expect similar readings? Also, there's a quota to hit every day l would imagine.
Very informative. Thank you. Do you work in Stratford-upon-Avon? Hourly rates please?.
Sorry we don't cover that area.
The problem is no 2 properties are the same when it comes to testing and inspection. Visual is fine,so is 10 - 20% removal of accessories but it's the test results when not correct with split rings or earth faults then its the time taken to find joints,extensions,jb's and bad connections by removing sockets,switches,lights appliances/furniture that takes so long never mind what's in the loft or under floorboards. Should be a fixed cost for board then x amount per outgoing cct plus x for documentation.
I agree with you about educating customers the amount of eicrs I lose out on to drive by eicrs one case only last week I quoted a customer on an eicr 3 bed semi I said it's around 4 hours work quoted her . unfortunately her response was well I've been told it only takes an hour max and I was trying to rip her off how can you respond to that
That EICR "remedial work" reminded me of MOT work by garages to get your car through.