Why the Dutch always say what they mean - BBC REEL
2024 ж. 10 Мам.
1 140 275 Рет қаралды
BBC Reel editor Melissa Hogenboom was born in the Netherlands but grew up in the UK. Noticing the two extremes between British politeness and Dutch directness, she explores how much truth there is to the stereotype that Dutch people are direct.
Produced and reported by Melissa Hogenboom
Filmed and directed by Michelle Potters
Edit by Bas Govers
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I’ve always been told I’m too blunt. Then I went to go work for a Dutch company and they really liked me. I mean really liked me. When they moved our North American headquarters, they asked me if I wanted to move to the Netherlands. No BS.
Yeah it’s always tongues out for anyone from America. We think having an American around elevates our status. If you excuse my Dutch directness.
As a Dutchman working internationally; I tend to make a joke out of it. "Allow me to be very Dutch here for a moment". That makes it clear I'll make a tough statement in a minute and that my audience needs to take it at face value. Never fails.
I do this too, albeit in online communities! It works there as well!
hahaha
Sounds like dutch autism. People probably hate you.
@@Metalmassacre07 you must be fun at parties
Allow me to be Dutch in my business travels would mostly be communicating something with pricing ;)
As a chilean I grew up in a very ambiguous environment, where everything has double or triple meaning and you never know what to expect from people around you. And so, when I lived in the Netherlands for a whole year it was VERY refreshing for me to know that they meant every single word. I'd come back if I could, and stay forever. Dutch people are golden 🧡
Confirmo, la sociedad chilena es demasiado ambigua.
For a Finnish person like myself, the Chilean ambiguity sounds like a nightmare 😬 we're known to be direct much like the Dutch
@@marianna3253 Yeah it sounds so stressful, always having to guess. Plus I think the dutch can say something like not liking your dress and you both laugh about it, because you know the person is not insulting you but just sharing an opinion and not at all implying you shouldn't wear it. I often find they are actually very cheerful when complaining about things.
Golden? they mostly seem a bit more pasty white looking
Ahhhhh ! 🤪 Sit on the fence English , White man speak with fork tounge 😏.. (I am a white Brit of 66 years) just to be clear 😉. No offense intended.
As a Dutch person myself, I do feel that my compatriots sometimes hide behind the stereotype as an excuse for being tactless or not expressing themselves carefully. You can be direct and still care about other people's feelings, but it requires a certain skill level in a given language to do so. Many Dutch people think their English is a lot better than it actually is, and their command of their native language is often also not where it should be. As a language though, Dutch provides far less opportunity to obfuscate a lack of eloquence than English does. A clumsy native Dutch speaker will sound like a clumsy Dutch speaker; a clumsy native English speaker tends to mostly sound excessively verbose or rambling.
Agreed!
👍
You could express yourself carefully, but Dutch style is much more fun 😂
No, I get 10 times more offended when people play mind games with me. I just don't get how lack of honesty and disrespecting the right of the other person to know the truth is in any way polite, as they say.
@@far--away...26 You mean the Dutch don't lie?
I live in the USA but my mother is Dutch. This reminds me of a funny situation that happened to me last week: I offered to split a cab home from a party with my friend and he refused, so I left the party alone. Two days later, the host told me that my friend thought I was rude for not insisting that he take my offer. Apparently some people expect you to offer them help three times so that they can accept the third time. I called my friend immediately, apologized, and told him not to play games like that with me. It’s better to be direct.
Nee is nee
Where do people come up with silly games like that, anyway?
Lemme introduce you to your former friend. Having done business with many nationlities I found the Dutch direct not rude and easy to work with. No choreography nor sugar coating yes is yes, no is no. But don't expect overwhelming hospitality one cup of coffee is what you deserve.
@@edonveil9887 haha it depends on the situation and person, I always offer a second coffee or tea when their done with the first one, but only with one biscuit with each beverage haha
@@MrCrisenson Yea, Edon Veil, I remember that, the box was presented, you could take a cookie out, and the box was closed and went into the cupboard again! 😄
For me as a Dutchman it is rude when people are not direct. Saying “we must meet for dinner” and then not making an appointment is simply a lie. Untruth that is not meant remains untruth.
You'd hate it in Belgium then :D
It's just a blatant lie that the Dutch don't do that. They absolutely do. I've come across it hundreds of times,,,,, no thousands.
@@telebubba5527 of course it happens, but you will absolutely be in discredit with that person or vice versa if you are not meeting up or have a good excuse
@@telebubba5527 Well, talking about blatant lies. If you would meet every 2 weeks with new people that would invite you to dinner and don't follow up with an actual invitation and that happend thousands (plural) of times, then you should be death by now or extremely old.
It just means that other cultures have different ways of communicating. Even though the English and Dutch languages are pretty close, culturally there's a much larger difference. If you're incapable of grasping that, it's not the fault of the other culture.
I'm Greek but I am like the Dutch in behavior and I mostly like this kind of straightforwardness! People who say "we should hangout" but not really mean it hurt my feelings 😔
agree so much, especially the feelings being hurt by these lies and fake attitudes. I'm belgian and very direct myself, but i live in a multicultural country (belgians themselves are very different because of the languages) and the amount of foreigners, making it hard to be as i am here
I as a German like this directness. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Live could be so much easier if everybody was like that and I wished the world was so direct as a whole!
of course Germans like this. After all, Dutch are called Swamp Germans, aren't they?
Would you say Germans aren’t direct? Most of the Germans I know where I live (US) are refreshingly direct. Maybe I think that because the city I’m from is known for passivity!
@@shespeakssoftly it depends. Sometimes my fellow Germans are not as direct as I would like them to be. Especially the generations that are in their early 20s or below.
This only works if you respect each others opinion and have the full freedom to express your opinion. This is not the case in many countries with dictators and fear.
@@ralfhtg1056 thanks for the reply!
Having lived here in the Netherlands 30 years and even having acquired Dutch citizenship, I can honestly say I've never really noticed the directness although I keep hearing about it. I might be missing something but I find the feedback I get from Dutch colleagues and friends to be easy to cope with rather than appearing rude. What I have noticed is a respect in both directions in hierarchy at the workplace. In the UK more junior people would fear talking to the seniors, here the more junior person is quite happy to speak up and give their opinion and for me that is a great thing.
So agree with this! I grew up in Amsterdam and Lelystad and I never found the Dutch to be especially Direct. They are as transactional as the rest - some do like to describe themselves as painfully honest which of course is total BS. Nevertheless, I like the Dutch, always happy to run into them here in the US. I also hear sometimes that Dutch are rude or arrogant- don’t really agree with this either - always found most friendly, eager to meet and learn about other cultures, travelers and world wise. And of course the Dutch have the best cheese, the best bread (tijger brood, duivenkater omg yum).
I lived in the Netherlands & have never heard about the Dutch supposedly being direct and have never thought they were especially so in personal encounters. The Dutch are the same as New York & its environs. Amsterdam is like NYC in the way people act & think. The rest of Holland is like the suburbs of CN, the NY counties outside the city and northern NJ. I don’t know about south Holland, though, I know they have their own culture there.
@@bubb5225 The communication style in south of the Netherlands is definitely much less direct, in Belgium its even more indirect. I got the same impression as you from the TV stereotypes, though I've never been to NYC, I only made it as far as Texas.
@@bubb5225 And to think that after Noord Holland & Zuid Holland, there are ten additional provinces!
Directness doesn’t mean rude.
I'm from the UK, now in the NL, I'm half Irish half British and my partner is Dutch. Now that I've lived here a while life is so much simpler and stress free when it comes to communication. The Dutch are great for getting to the point. "hey, want to hang out this weekend?" UK - um... Maybe? I think I'm free, I'll get in touch (never hear a word all weekend). The NL - nope. I don't want to. I've been working hard all week and I want a day to myself. I love it.
I'm a Brit living in Florida. I used to be so like this, or making up some excuse as to why I couldn't make it. These days I definitely prefer the direct approach and I feel like people appreciate that much more than some random excuse which would come across as being flakey.
You’re example is more like decisiveness versus indecisiveness.
@@whitepouch0904 No, because many people hide behind the veil of indecisiveness to avoid saying no
I think there is usually a way to be both direct and polite.
it's usually in the tone and the intention (which arguably takes some time to calibrate amongst people).
My mom’s Belgian and my dad Dutch. When you ask Belgians if they want another coffee they’ll take 5 mins to answer and will ask about 3x if it’s not a bother for you. A Dutch person will be “yes! Lekker!” All I need to hear to get the coffee machine going
Ha, ha... we rude Germans do the same. Very easy. Yes or no. 😊 In East Frisia we put a spoon into the cup when we got enough. 😊
My belgian wife's family does that. Lol
bless the Belgians
@@MrsWilliamTheBloody Flemish obviously! 😉
Are you max verstappen?
I'd live in the Netherlands over the UK with no regrets. Being direct causes less drama than what being "polite" tries to avoid unsuccessfully resulting in more drama.
Still plenty of drama to go around here
The reason for us Dutch being direct is simple: we are pragmatic. Why ask: “When you could please?” If you could get something done by saying: “If you do it now we will have time left afterwards.” Communication should be comprehensible and quick, in order not to waste time.
@@dsdf_fdp1858 at work in my team we always tell eachother if someone made a mistake. Not too make him/her feel bad. Just to keep eachother sharp and make eachother better. There are no hard feelings at all. Mistakes are human, we tell eachother, sometimes try to find a solution to prevent it from happening and move on. We dont let a collegue make the same mistake over and over and everyone gets annoyed, but nobody tells that collegue what goes wrong.... since thats just wrong
@@s.m.1354 If the British were totally honest and forthright, we'd end up in a civil war or revolution. Our disimilation and obfuscation is the only thing that stops us being savages, we're all football hooligans underneath that thin veil of courtesy. We had to be honest during the Brexit debate and now we're totally split up in tribes that hate each other.
@@chrisc9755 I strongly disagree. For our Bilingual education we had to travel many times to the UK. The UK is pretty segregated , either people are elitarian and extremely decent. Or those who I actually liked more, who I met on holidays and we played not just football, but all types of sport. Those of the lower echelons that work abroad, they can be real nasty indecent, selfish cunts. Some of them don’t even have the capability to understand football. Seems shockingly similar to Dutch society, but we try to improve ourselves. Currently working on being more tolerant to work migrants, it creates situations where lads from the UK have to become assholes that only care about themselves, because we exploited a fear regime among Polish work migrants. Even some Poles died because of that..
Interesting that the city in the US most known for directness was founded by the Dutch. They called it New Amsterdam.
Interesting how that city as well grew primarily on commerce
Then the Bloody English came.. But we Vandeblit people did stay !
@@lucasrem Vanderbilt. Literally from De Bilt. It's a small place next to where I live, it has a population of about 11,000.
ehh... the whole east coast is known for being direct, not just nyc
@@AudieHolland LoL - thanks. I've never put that together until now. De Bilt is on my passport as my place of birth in 1947. In late 1950, my parents, sister, and I moved to Tasmania, Australia. My grandmother taught the young princesses at Werkplaats Kindergemeenschap in the 40s. ~
Very interesting video! A Dutch colleague once wrote on her out-of-office reply that she was “on a well-deserved holiday.” I’m Canadian and was quite surprised by the message, but when I thought about it, she was right. She is one of the hardest working people I know and she did deserve a break from work.
I had a Dutch lawyer put a reply saying that any emails will be not be read or forwarded. Didn't even leave a different person to contact. I didn't mind, but that would be borderline malpractice in the US 😅
@@dtn590 Usually contacting a different person is counterproductive. You will simply lose that day and not the lawyer because the lawyer would take an extra day after his holiday to go through the work with the 3rd party.
Came to NL to study, fell in love and adopted the straight forwardness because it is so refreshing. Went home to my country after graduation, and got into so many troubles with the straight forwardness. It affected my career at some point in time, and I don’t care. I like it. It makes life easier. Not everyone is mind reader. Say what you want, and mean what you say.
Basically, with Dutch bluntness, comes a healthy dose of arrogance « I don’t care if I offend you or not, I’ll say what I think no matter what. Don’t see why I should adapt to different cultures”. Also, having worked in Dutch companies for years, I noticed that these qualities are less appreciated when on the receiving end of a negative remark.
@@Ellinillard Agree. It is not always comfortable when we are at the receiving end. Timing and the how normally helps a bit.
@@Ellinillard It all depends on the person and you actually touched upon that with your own description, there's a difference between being blunt and being direct just like how there's a difference between rude and direct. Long story short pretty much all Dutch people are direct but sadly some are _also_ rude/blunt. The issue is twofold, there are rude Dutch people thinking their rudeness is justified because of "Dutch directness" & there are foreign people thinking the _rude_ Dutch people are just typical case of "Dutch directness" (when from a Dutch persons point of view they would just be considered rude) I think the best way to deal with any form of "Dutch directness" is to just flip it back on us, be direct in the way that you respond, that way you will quickly find out of somebody is just direct or actually rude
@@suicidalbanananana you’re probably,right. I noticed that irony or sarcasm, unless very heavy, was not,the,proper way as it was often lost on the recipient.
Being Dutch, I guess I am even biased (arrogant?) that I often think that people from other countries and cultures would like to be more direct but feel 'restrained' to do so...😅 Until, for example, I visit Japan and within an hour it's me feeling very clumsy and rude...
Having lived in about six countries in my life, i have noticed that politeness in different cultures means doing different things and avoiding different things. So when you get 2 people whose idea of politeness is different, you're bound to get one person thinking the other is rude.
When a English or a American person says “ Interesting “ he/ she mostly don’t like it. When a Dutch person says “Interesting “ he /she really means it’s interesting . A big difference
What's the meaning of interesting in the vocabulary?
Unless there is a special intonation to 'interesting'. Things like are typically obvious to a native speaker, but often too subtle for non native speakers.
@@goozerboozer8543 in Dutch ‘Interesting’ means : worth taking into consideration, a closer look. That's positive. In English it means : Thanks for your opinion , but no. it’s a polite negative reaction in English. In Dutch the connotation is positive , in English is negative. If they mean the same as the Dutch , they say I” am (really) interested.”.
@@Hrn250 interesant is the Dutch word for interesting but the Dutch will take the real and correct meaning 'it holds interest to me.' The English version of interesting is really a sarcastic / ironic use of the word which should rather be 'peculiar' or 'strange'.
When Spock says "interesting", he really means it. Could Spock be a Dutch Vulcan ? 😊👍🇳🇱
I grew up in a culture where there was a lot of reading in-between the lines and people would be overly nice to a person’s face, then talk badly behind their back. This messed me up mentally over time. So, when entering adulthood I became much more direct and appreciative of when people would be direct with me. I also appreciated when people would not be offended so easily about my opinion shared. I think it ought to be more that way. It provides more room for people to be themselves. I didn’t want people pretending to be my friend or trying to help me feel better by keeping me in an illusion of what they really thought. That doesn’t show love in my view. I may get my feelings hurt for a moment by someone being honest but at least I know what they are thinking and that I can trust them to tell me the truth.
Yeah at least you can trust them
Japanese?
A Belgian or France ?
I'm a Dutch citizen who immigrated from the U.S. six years ago. I love living here and I love the Dutch. I find them very friendly and sociable. I've made more friends here more quickly than I did in the States. I appreciate the ability of Dutch people to collaborate through honest communication. Criticisms don't feel as loaded since it is clear that they are meant to help improve the final product. At the same time I've noticed some related behaviors that I'm still getting used to. 1) I think Dutch people find it important to have an opinion and express it. I'm not sure why but I think the intent is that it shows one to be a thinking person. It gives one importance. 2) It seems to me that Dutch people sometimes hide behind the value of honesty. I hear opinions expressed that don't really add positive value to a situation--like the haircut example given in the video. As a musician, I've heard opinions expressed (not just toward me 😀) that are more hurtful than helpful. I'm not sure whether these are micro aggressions under the cover of "I'm just being honest",or whether the value having an opinion trumps the value for protecting people's feelings, which is maybe itself a form of micro agression: "my opinion of your haircut is more important than your opinion." Obviously Americans could learn from Dutch honesty. Maybe our feelings wouldn't be building up to the point of exploding as they have been in recent years. Maybe we wouldn't be talking at each other as opposed to talking to each other. And maybe if I were just a little bit more Dutch, my comments wouldn't have been quite so long 😀.
As a Dutchie I can definitely confirm that a part of the Dutch people overindulge on their freedom of expressing ones opinion, with a certain lack of diplomacy and sense of necessity. A nice mantra I'd recommend for that: "Is it true? Is it nice? Is it necessary?" That said, the old-Amsterdam humor of my dear late neighbour: "Hey, got a haircut? When will they finish it?" never gets old.
Your first point is absolutely true. Education/knowledge is highly sought after by many Dutch. I think it is also needed. As we are not able to talk about "nothing" (what Dutch people consider not meanigfull, Dutch efficiency 😂) . This gives us actually something to talk about and bond about. Which is actually really inefficient I realise now. As learning takes a lot of time. For your second point I would say that there are quite a lot of Dutch people that are rude. But they are even more rude for people from outside of the Netherlands. A Dutch person would deal with someone like that with extreme directness and call them out on it. Really unpleasant for a Dutch person. Even more for other cultures. If I would talk in the way I have a verbal disagreement with a Dutch person to any of my international friends I would loose the international friend and gain more closeness with the Dutch person if we are able to solve it. That is one of the problematic Dutch characteristics. I'm a Dutch guy that works in England in an multinational setting and I'm quite dominant in character. But I feel like I'm always walking on eggs ( Dutch saying). I can't fully be myself with my international friends because of it.
I was born in Holland, 2 years old and my folks emigrated to Canada, am now retired, moved and living in The Netherlands. Yiour well-considered points, 1 and 2, are my observation too-- and I call them (famiy members) out on it -- much to their surprise =) which, when you think about it is very straight forward for a stereotypical Canadian [super apologetc and nice, eh =) ] but then: This must indicate that my Dutch roots are flourishing lol. No, your point is totally accurate. .ME (in response to their opinion)...I dont care what your honest opinion is; it's totally unrelated to the discussion at hand . Or, we are in a group setting and they blurt out their 'honesty' ME That (negative adjective) you used to describe someone is rude. Answer: "But it is true " ME: That is uncalled for and unnecessary: they have a name " Does not happen much anymore =)
I used to teach English to Dutch grown ups, and one of the more challenging things was to get across how in English polite society words don't necessarily mean what the dictionary would suggest. For instance: When a Dutch person says something like:"Isn't that guy an idiot?", about someone you know and maybe like, an English person might respond with something like: "Oh, I wouldn't know about that." What that means is:"Change the subject, because you're embarrassing me." A Dutch person may well interpret that quite literally, as in:"Oh, he doesn't know, he needs more information", and proceed to explain further why said guy is an idiot. That kind of thing happens a lot to Dutch people who know the English language, but are less familiar with the culture.
This happens all the time to people in the autism spectrum too. Myself included. There's not enough learning. I like being in the Netherlands because communication can be much easier with directness. I'd be ok if the Dutch were even more direct. Being direct doesn't necessarily mean being rude. The latter involves things like disrespecting queues and trying to rip off others when trading, things I also found here in NL. Sorry 😬
@The Sim Architect I can only apologise for the queue jumping and dishonest trading. I used to live in London, and could spot Dutch teenagers on a school trip. They would be the ones to instantly board the train as soon as the door opened, without letting people off first. Embarrassing.
@@maartenvandam344 Thanks! Yes, I notice we're sometimes kind of organized in the bus stop then people who came much later than us run to the door instead of letting people who were waiting for longer to get the best seats and enter first. Coming originally from Brazil, if people do that, I remember others would at least yell at them, if not getting physical if their behavior could be seen as intentionally cutting a line. Same with the grocery store, there's always someone trying to getting into the line from the middle instead of looking for the last person. I remember Sweden to be the opposite of that, you even have those devices with tags, you get your number and the computer calls you. People there are the most polite I have ever seen in my life. Besides that I like interacting with the Dutch very much. 🤗
@SEEK THE TRUTH! As a true Moslim you are not to interfere with the religion of others. Your message is haram.
Love this story, so true ☺👌🏼
I have been living in the Netherlands for a year and I wouldn't say the are rude, on the contrary, they are the nicest and are constantly saluting you, which I saw far less in London. Rather I would say the Dutch are transparent. They are very practical people and tend to avoid vanity. So they don't want to waste time and effort because of miscommunication. I deeply appreciate that trait of Dutch people. When they are direct, don't take it as rude, they don't have bad intentions at all, they are just being transparent.
Boeren !
They are very rude
@@alejandromorales1904 And you are very judgemental.
I come from a similar culture and not being direct is seen as time wasting or dishonesty. I suppose depends on the cultural values. English culture should not be used as a standard for judging other cultural norms.
@@0512Kasia Interesting! Where are you from?
I think it's great to be direct. I'm an American and often hate indirect people and tend to be direct myself, but try to avoid being rude. I think there is a difference between being direct and rude. Direct is efficient and most without emotional intent. Rude is more like stating an opinion that wasn't asked, or adding unnecessary negativity to statements. Like when the guy mentioned he got a haircut and a coworker told him it looked better before. That was rude. His opinion wasn't asked,. It's self-centered to think it should matter as to another person's hair cut and to state an opinion as fact. It served no purpose as nothing could change. It's negative and it could make someone feel bad. On the other side, being direct without being rude regarding someone else's hair cut would be giving a statement like "I preferred it before" only when asked for the opinion. People shouldn't ask for opinions if they don't want an honest answer.
Really good one 👍
Yes!
Exactly. Opinions that dont help.
i agree about the haircut exemple, HOWEVER, it could have also been just playful teasing to break the ice and they could become more comfortable around each other. not everything in life should be dead serious, including in the workplace, where frankly most people tend to be bored out of their minds. i guess context of the relationship and personalities of people being involved can make a difference between rude/insensitive and playful teasing.
I love directness, but there is a point when someone could just keep their mouth shut instead of telling you their unsolicited opinion on your haircut or clothing choices, or things that don't affect them. I notice that some people who claim they're being 'direct' don't respect this line, and could do well to think before they speak to determine if what they are about to say is truly necessary and useful, or is an ego driven need to be heard
After living in The Netherlands for 9 years, I have something important to add: Not everybody in The Netherlands is direct or appreciates people to be direct. This video applies very much to The Hague and Amsterdam, where I lived and worked the first 4 years. But now living and working in Maastricht (in the south) for almost 5 years, I can tell for sure, people in this region are absolutely the opposite, people are extremely polite and avoid any possible situation somebody maybe feel embarrassed in public. If my staff criticises me (as a team leader), I really have to read between the lines, or they wait to say things in a one-on-one meeting, never ever in public. The first months working in Maastricht were very confusing to me, suddenly I was considered "The rude one", too much I was communicating the "Amsterdam way". Also when it comes to punctuality and food culture the differences are really surprising to me. 15 minutes late is in Maastricht perfectly in time, in Amsterdam a disaster.
Then again, us Hollanders tend to jokingly say that Limburg, where Maastricht is, is not in the same country, so there is that...
Absolutely true. There is a cultural boundry in the Netherlands where the south (Brabant and Limburg) still has Catholic roots, while the rest of the country has been heavily influenced by Calvinists. Though people are not that religious anymore, the effect on culture is still strongly visible.
I can totally agree with this. As a Belgian musician who has worked a lot in the Netherlands I noticed a profound difference between the North and the South. Up North , even after we played three encores, there was always someone (most of the time another guitar player😁) who couldn't resist in informing me about what HE would have done differently. In the South this never happened.
Allthough there is usually Holland and the rest of the country, I think it's really Limburg and to a lesser degree the also catholic Brabant that stand out as not being direct. In the East or North people are direct enough to make a Hollander blush.
@@hansverrezen7619 I'm quintessential Dutch, born in South Holland, raised in North Holland. And then my family moved to De Achterhoek and everything went downhill from then on 😛 But I would *never* comment a musician or artist claiming I could do better ( = anders). My mother went to a concert of Jerney Kaagman many years ago, and she said she commented her that 'she had sung beautifully.' Err... you don't say to Jerney Kaagman that she 'sang beautifully.' In my mother's place I would have just been thankful and said something like 'fantastic' or 'brilliant.' If you're unfamiliar with Jerney's work, look up 'Weekend' - Earth & Fire. However, if I ever came into hearing distance of Mr Rutte, I would tell him to go to hell.
French here, I lived for 5 years in the Netherlands and I love the straightforwardness. I really noticed how useful it cam become in group settings while making a project with both Chinese and Dutch friends. While the Dutch would be very open about what they displeased, which really facilitated the project, while the Chinese did shut off more easily if they were unhappy with something, leading to what seemed unexpressed frustration, and arguments. I later understood that my Chinese did express their point of view as much as the Dutch, only in a much more subtle way, and it came out as rude to them that we would still insist and not understand that they had expressed a strong point of view, which was unclear to us and led them to feel disrespected. Communication really is something :^)
Odd that I'd find an actual good tip in a random KZhead comment. I find myself as the client in business dealings often and I try to be more direct in what I like and don't like even though it goes against the grain of my personality to not hurt people's feelings. It's business after all and I should save that stuff for friends. As you mentioned, they might actually appreciate that it facilitates things along better (either that or it backfires and someone makes a Reddit post about me being an a**hole client to work with lol).
Living in a Chinese culture for several years, I found Chinese ppl to be indirect communicators. In Chinese culture, it is a virtue to save face (for oneself and for others), and that requires being indirect and outright lying sometimes. When in Rome do as the Romans do AND don’t blame the host culture/country for their way of doing things. It’s just different, but not wrong if it fails to conform to your cultural norms. A person will be happier and with many more friendships by accommodating the local culture.
yeah it's just different culture. Hi, I'm from Japan, higher context country than China. In Japan, too direct expressions are considered as the childish and the selfish behaviour, it threatens to break down and tear up the harmonic collective teams. Yeah it sucks, but the "politeness" sometimes (often) works me to avoid the useless conflicts in the human relations, workplaces. However, the internet and the IT make lower context communication nowadays even in Japan, I guess it's the nice trend.
Isn't it great that you can now take a little bit of both cultures and apply it to your own way of living, I think that's the real education in travelling
As a French who had lived in London for 17 years and had been married to a Japanese woman for 10 years I've always considered the French to be direct by contrast, are the Dutch more direct than the French then?
As a >Canadian, my Oma and Opa emmigrated from the Netherlands after WW2. I never realized how much Dutch culture affected my life. We weren't passed on any of the direct culture, language or otherwise. Watching this makes so much sense to explain so many issues I've had over the years.
Hopefully you dont call yourself Dutch though. Your grandparents are Dutch, but you are a Canadian
Dutch say Oma and Opa? Really?
Yes. @@AltIng9154
@@user-gz1nv6nw3q Oy, this is one of the issues with being an immigrant’s kid. You’re stuck between two cultures. You’re too European to be American/Canadian, and too American/Canadian to be European. When you have European parents, it’s inevitable that part of your personality will be European. I personally have always been befuddled by a lot of American attitudes - the indirectness, the obsessive insistence on “independence”, etc
@@azariacba If you are born in America, and only speak English, then you are American.
I’m British and I had a Dutch manager at one point. To this day one of the best managers I’ve had, and sure enough one of his defining and valuable traits was his honesty and directness.
My Dutch in-laws, who have lived in Canada for decades, once said that Canadians are so polite that they are rude.
Canadian here with Afrikaaner family (it seems they fit into the Dutch way of directness). Please give an example to help me understand better.
@@Sqmsh_Patricia They think that Canadians won't speak unpleasant truths because we are too afraid to offend. It may be especially true here in the Maritimes.
@@smallmj2886 As a Dutch person we also feel the same about Belgians. We consider it 'lying' or 'hypocritical' 😅We want to know where we stand and guessing if something is sincere everytime is just no fun.
Lived here 47 years this month,love the Dutch ,ik hou van jullie 🇳🇱🥳
(nog) Gefeliciteerd, Janet!
Indoensyians: Meneer please hold our BAJIGUR 🥃
One thing is being direct… another thing is giving your opinion without being asked…
The Dutch also don't take offense when someone gives their opinion so they assume that the other party doesn't mind. We see it as helping the other person. If I'm doing something that someone else doesn't like, I gladly hear it. It's then up to me to decide whether I do something with that or not.
Having been living in the UK after spending so many years where people are direct to the point, I prefer the directness. Sometimes politeness is a veiled condescension. 😊
I'm half Dutch (grew up there) and half English (lived here 40+ years), and I spent the first half of my life taking things at face value, speaking my mind, and being honest and open. Unfortunately, that did not always go down well. My controversial take on one sneaky purpose of 'politeness': We seek to win favour with people by saying nice things, but without having to put any actual effort in. e.g. By saying "you must come for dinner sometime", you're garnering credit and respect even though you have no intention of following through with the 'offer'. That seems rather dishonest to me. In the US, in many cases, they seem to have taken that ploy to another level by putting as little time, effort and resources into products and services as they can get away with, while whooping and cheering like those things are the best in the world. If it looks good and sounds good, it must _be_ good. Nope.
(Boasting is an American pastime).
Good points. I (as a dutchy) remember flying to the USA as a kid and being asked ''Hi, how are you!?'' at some airport. I responded to the question, but the person that asked didn't seem to care or listen to my response. From there on it all felt so fake... After that experience I take any signs of ''American-enthousiasm'' with a grain of salt :_)
@@michaklaarenbeek7966 Great powers of perception at a young age!
As an American living in Europe and before retirement I was an electrician preforming servces, the compitition was do strong we had to preform or lose business or get fired, in Europe it is the opposite, in the rural areas there is usually only one vender and with the labor laws it's hard to fire bad workers.
Where was this??? Not where I come from
In my culture (North Africa) people never say what they mean or mean what they say. Being direct is perceived as rude. Getting straight to the point is considered offensive. Very often I find myself in situations where the parties involved talk about anything but the business at hand, sometimes for up to an hour 😱 and all the time I'm like: why are they doing this!? Guess I'm a little Dutch 😂
Wow. That would drive me crazy. I live in Spain and I think some of that also goes on here.
In North Africa (and also Turkey) saying "no" is considered impolite while in the Netherlands saying "yes" when it should have been no is considered lying. Same as for the English to say polite things when they actually don't mean it is considered lying. I prefer the "say what you mean and mean what you say" because there can not be any misunderstandings. I hate it to be guessing what people really mean all the time. I prefer "in your face" to hypocrisy. I am Dutch but as has been mentioned in other comments not all people in the Netherlands are like that, there is a lot of difference between regions plus we live with a lot of different cultures. As our Queen Maxima once said (she is originally from Argentina) there is no such thing as typical Dutch culture or behaviour, we are all quite different. Maybe because the Netherlands has had a lot of immigration for centuries.
We consider waisting people's time as rude.
"Being direct is perceived as rude. Getting straight to the point is considered offensive." This will drive me absolutely insane! I hate to not be direct. I don't want to waste time and energy, and have confusion about what we have been communicating about. Sure, let me be the offensive type, but at least I'm getting straight answers that way.
We preceive it as being dihonest or even deceptive.
I took Dutch and lived in AMS for a bit and I loved how literal the language is and how they tell you exactly what they’re thinking whether you asked for it or not. It’s awesome
I used to feel that way but after almost 7 years of living in NL, I've come to realise that they're not "direct", they're rude af and even worse, they don't like to be on the receiving end of their own "directness".
There is a pittfall for English/foreigners that take the message of these sort of videos too close to heart. Just because being direct isn't automatically rude, doesn't entail that any sort of rude behavior is accepted. Basic niceties like saying 'thank you' are normal (and have little to do with directness). And tone of voice matters a lot when delivering a negative message (something that is hard to hear if you aren't fluent in Dutch). There are also regional differences. The southern Netherlands is still direct (compared to England), but a bit less than the western part of the NL. Dutch speakers also use a couple of linguistic trics to soften a message, without realising it themselves. 'Kun je mij de boter geven/mag ik de boter (can you pass me te butter/may I have the butter) instead off the command: 'Geef mij de boter' (pass me the butter) for example. (And if you do use the commanding form, your tone of voice can be used to soften the harshness). And no matter how many times people say it: bumping into someone without a 'sorry' is still impolite.
Direct and rude are simply two completely different things. Coming from another culture one may perceive directness as rudeness, but that is in the eye of the beholder, not in the actual words or actions, nor in the intent. That’s pretty much the whole point of this video; Dutch, direct yes, rude no.
You should try the north east or eastern part of the country. Much more direct than the west :-)
We say 'zou je me de boter willen aangeven, als je blieft?'
'Thank you' is direct. And polite.
@@mariussielcken Dank je wel.
I'm Dutch and have lived in the UK and Canada for long periods of time. Canada was somewhere in between the two in terms of directness. Canadians are of course characteristically polite with lots of "please" and "sorry", but if a Canadian says "we should have dinner soon" they really mean that and you can make plans to hang out. I'm still getting used to a mention of dinner or drinks just being a meaningless polite phrase in the UK. How do you ever make friends if you never actually make plans? (The answer is the pub isn't it?)
But the again the oud is the answer to everything
Indoensyians: Meneer please hold our BAJIGUR 🥃
A story from Texas. Where a Texan is warm and friendly and says you must come over for dinner, but don't tell you where they live.
Yes, as an Englishman the pub is definitely the answer! I wouldn't say that phrase is meaningless, it does indicate a willingness. It just doesn't always translate into actual plans, which will be made more formally.
I agree, coming from the US, if someone said we should meet for dinner, I would assume they really meant it, and probably follow up later to make concrete plans
I really love the Netherlands and the Dutch. I live in the south in the US and it's like pulling teeth to get someone to say "no" to a question when that's their actual feelings about it. I think the north east in the US, New York city and Boston, the people are much more direct. It's very refreshing. Yes means yes, no means no, no coded language or silly BS.
*I was spoke to a north Floridian about a law that was discriminatory. He told me, **_"That's the law and people should abide by it."_* When I countered with how the law was discriminatory he said, _"But THAT'S the law."_ And that's when I realized that he knew it was discriminatory and that's how he preferred it. His answers simply kept him from admitting he was that way.
Dancing around can make lunch plans feel like diplomatic negotiations. I've taken to explaining fairly up front that I prefer to skip the back & forth niceties in offer/acceptance or in question/response. Please just take my words at face value and show me the same courtesy. ~Your fellow Southerner
@@hulkhatepunybannerYea, it's only the law until it's not. That's why _elections._ It's a weak rationalization when one lacks an argument (or fears enunciating it).
As a Dutchie I really had to get used to internationals adding a lot of ‘I think/I’m not sure’ in their speech. To me that sounds like you’re truly not sure about something, when in reality it’s usually to soften the blow of the real answer (which would be ‘no’)
... and now I know why when I say I those things ppl jump to thinking I said no when I didn't 😂
A clear example of directness is how the Dutch answer employee satisfaction surveys. At one point, I worked for the Dutch branch of a company that had offices in 33 countries. Every year, the Dutch management got huge problems from corporate as we scored job satisfaction & integrity (as in no corruption) on average about 2 points lower than all the other countries. They then had to explain every time this was just the Dutch way. But when there was a new owner, Dutch management used a new tactic: We got a seminar on how to answer these questions according to "international standards". So if it's good, it's amazing, if it's so so, it's the worst (not that other countries did that, but this made the Dutch employees accept this new way of filling it out). It made it clear to all of us that it was very silly. Most of us ended up scoring everything at the highest point, so we wouldn't have to deal afterwards with "solving the problem", which we felt was just a waste of time.
I had a question once "Why do you not feel this is a 10/10?" i had a 20 minute argument that "1. 10 means perfection and perfection does not exist. 2. The notion that you expect a 10 is just weird. You want me to rate it 10? Do you want to feel like we might as well stop trying to improve? If it where perfect there would be no need for any improvement in any way." but yes if someone asks me to rate how I would function even if things are good I would never go above 8. about 5-6 is acceptable.
When you're doing just above average, 50% are doing it worse!
@@YippingFox Technically that's only true if you have a distribution that isn't skewed.
Cant beat Dutch pragmatism. Very impressed by your approach to getting the job done.
Reminds me (Dutch) of a ‘costumers experience survey’ they gave me at a car dealership during my one year in the USA. I rated the salesperson an eight (out of ten). A ‘well done’ in my book. I could tell he was disappointed so I asked. He tried to shrug me off but I asked again. And he whispered: ‘If we don’t get enough costumers rating us 10/10, we don’t qualify for a permanent contract’. I blurted out: ‘Yeezzz (already learnt that ‘Jezus’ would be quite offensive to most Americans) what would they do with someone rating 5/10? Execute them?’. I was just trying to make a joke trying to convey a sort of ‘I really feel sorry for you, you having to go along with this BS, I get it now’ vibe. You could hear a pin drop in that dealership, people looking at us. So I just took the survey paper back, wrote 10/10 and drove off with the speed of light 😂
@1:20 : that was by no means direct. It was the Dutch standard dig at someone who just had a haircut. Another is "WHAT did you pay for that haircut? We would have done that for free!". Or one at my own expense once : "Not much of an improvement, is it?" That's typical Dutch banter, reserved for people they like.
I think being direct is being respectful in Holland
I'm a Dutch person and although I appreciate directness and honesty in some settings (specifically work related settings), I actually find it quite a breeze when I go to the UK and people are just a little more friendly. Many articles, videos and posts state that being 'direct' is not about being rude, but sometimes a more soft way of being told the truth is simply more pleasant. I definitely wouldn't urge everyone to become 'more direct', but focus on situational directness: At work be clear and direct, you'll get aligned better. With friends and family it's fine to be a bit less direct as this may come across more friendly.
Reponding to your last sentences. So especially from your friends you would rather see them to be honest with you? Being direct does not equal being rude.
Your English is better than that of most British. "Situational. directness", I cannot imagine how often I have not heard anyone use that totally correct phrase in the UK. I am impressed.
@@megapangolin1093 Could you be more french?
Anything is possible.@@barakeel
One thing that I’ve noticed living in different countries (I am an American) is that the “lack” of social skills like picking up on subtext, body language, etc-aka, preferring direct communication, taking people at their word, expecting and acting upon transparency in conversations-is always seen as an ineptitude, and to a certain degree can be considered a social/developmental disorder in the states, whereas it could be the norm in other countries like the Netherlands, Germany, etc. I grew up in America feeling a bit alienated, but since moving to Europe (and of course it’s not a monolith, but speaking generally for sake of brevity) as an adult, it’s absolutely mind boggling when your culture shock is a positive experience, and you can fit in better in a culture that isn’t the one you grew up in.
I am happy it is a positive experience, I wish being more direct without beating around the bush was more normalized worldwide. It would make the world a better place overall considering you'll at least know what you're in for when you're transparant.
@@marilynlucero9363 there’s certainly norms and etiquette for each culture but it’s been really refreshing to be here and-I think in part because of English being a lot of peoples second or non native language-experience a level of clarity or communication. That language “barrier” works a bit to everyone’s advantage, as they want to get across exactly what they’re thinking instead of it being obscured by a kind of meta subtext. I’m also from the south so it’s like a literally whole new world lol
@@CatieChapman I've heard of the southern part of the US before, Sunbelt region, right?
@@marilynlucero9363 kinda, yeah! But that includes the southwest as well, which is a bit different. There’s a bit of a heritage thing in the southeast from Texas to Florida and up to as far as Maryland, depending on who you talk to. Particularly there’s just a way of talking that is so doublespeak that it took me a while to really get a handle of it. There’s a channel or video series here on YT called “sh*t southern women say” that I think is a huuuuge insight lol but also pretty funny
Isn't it kind of weird to fool yourself and the persons you are communicating with, to just sugarcoat, or in reality, just blatantly lie to ? Being "direct" means you don't have to remember the lies either... ;)
As a US guy selling products to an important Dutch customer - I can say this directness was evident - and extremely helpful. When you messed up (occasionally inevitable, right?), they let you know. And If you convinced them you could fix it, they worked with you to solve the problem. Naturally, everybody has their own agenda, but with the Dutch, there was much less intrigue. Can't say the same for any other place or culture, including my own. I loved my time working with Dutch colleagues.
If a person messes up and he gets to hear it later on from other people while at the time he was told everything is fine, then that's considered bad etiquette. It really is frowned upon and seen as disrespectful, deceitful and cowardly. It will also end up giving you a poor reputation among colleagues.
" there was much less intrigue." That is exactly the description i was looking for, intrigue. Too many people go for the intrigue route and it's so tiring and destructive.
There are levels of directness in the Netherlands. It differs between regions, or even between cities. While Dutch society camouflages social class differences, it really exists and regarding directness, there is a social class difference as well. Finally, we can be polite direct or rude direct and that's an important distinction.
Does this explain why, as a Dutchman working in the USA after three weeks on a new job I told management after a two-day team meeting "you are telling us (the whole team) to put in plenty of overtime when we are wasting our time in meetings like this?". 😁😁😁
I worked in an English Marina for 10 years, my most favorite customers were the Dutch. Excellent approach and straight forward, never had an issue. The worst were..... the Brits, and I'm British!
😂😂 that’s funny
I can very much relate to that, as a German, who has lived in the UK. In the UK it is considered to be polite to not directly state your opinion but to politely introduce it. In Germany is is considered to be polite to be honest and not sugarcoat anything. Tell me the tings as they are and do not waste my time.
Ærlighed er et menneskeligt træk der er højt værdsat i Holland og Danmark. Så jeg tror det er indstøbt i befolkningen gennem religion over tid. Den direkte talemåde man finder i Nordeuropa er så afgjort et kvalitets mærke- vil jeg mene
Seems like many ppl in Germany have become British without me knowing 😂😂😂😂
100% Agree.
I need Germans in my life! My mother is English and she really beats around the bush and takes ages to get to the point. Sometimes I just say to her “look, cut the fluff and just get to the point” I like people to just make their point rather than dancing around the subject. Germans and Dutch sound like a dream to me
@@cultfiction3865 The dutch are notorious for this too (being to the point) and I love it.
dating a dutch man as an indonesian woman who tends to communicate with feeling-oriented style is a struggle by itself at first. but, by time, i am getting used to his direct utterances , and it doesnt come up as rude at all to me. instead it helps me to have healthier relationship because the communication is very open and i dont think i can ask for better
I'm Dutch and I've lived in the UK for a couple of years. The lady with the black blazer had it right: being polite is important in The Netherlands too! The language itself is simply more direct in nature, using less auxiliary verbs in a sentence than English, therefore being more concise and to the point. Something that sounds perfectly normal and not rude at all in Dutch may come across as brusque when then 'translated' to English. There's more of a sense of openness and yes, transparency in working culture than in the UK, at least in my experience. Communication seems more to the point and not as bureaucratic. Imo being to the point and honest is not the same as rude or 'brutally honest' - I dislike that expression anyway, because why would honesty always have to be brutal? You can be honest and to the point while still being friendly and considerate. Tbh I do think the 'traveling there especially for you' thing might also be because the person may not be very practiced at expressing themselves in English... I know what they mean, (it's a long trip and it would cost them a bit too much time and energy for just one thing) but they phrased/translated it a bit awkwardly. Lol at using nude areas on beaches as an example of 'transparancy'... there's usually an area on the beach where you're allowed to be naked (further down), it's always just a bunch of old people that do it and trust me I don't like to see it either.😂
there is a difference between being direct and being direct to the extent of being rude or even insensitive or insulting , I am scottish from my mothers side living in Hoilland, scottish people are in my experience direct but rarely rude
@1:12 about the haircut: this is one of the running jokes between colleagues. As a born Dutch I have heard this many, many times after having had my hair cut, but when other colleagues came back form a haircut they would hear it too. Another running joke: "Did you have your hair cut?" "Yes, it was about time / Yes, it grew too long / Yes, do you like it this way?" Answer: "OK, but when are they going to finish it?" I suppose the way this is said is one of the subtle nuances you only catch when being born Dutch, or having lived in the Netherlands for many years.
Or they ask whether you’ve been run over by a lawn mower
@@Dorenda Depends on who says it. From my experience, it's safe to assume anyone with whom you've got no bad blood intends it as a joke. And to be fair, nobody who doesn't like you will ask if you've gotten a haircut, or anything really.
@@Dorenda just harmless banter
Jokes like this actually show that people are comfortable around each other. Mild sarcasm can be a sign of friendship. Speaking politely can indicate that you're not at that level just yet. Australians can relate, it seems.
I said to a woman in front of her boyfriend - “I knew your boyfriend before he was fat.” I didn’t know the Dutch were like that. I’ve always been totally forthright.
In some social situations being direct can get you in hot water .
I also struggle - as a German person - about the non-direct communication in England. Super confusing, hiding around the bushes…
I think you mean "beating around the bush" :)
I like most germans. they are quit the same as Frisians
@@sandrah5405 Come on Sandra , give it to him straight, don’t pussyfoot around 😄
@@evastapaard2462 So are Russians, Ukrainians, Serbians and Hungarians and Israelis
@@Booz2020 why are they the same?
I am a Dutch citizen living in the UK from the age of eleven and have had this conversation several years ago with my Dutch cousin and his American visitors. I explained that the subtleties of the English language and the use of the double negative, eg " I am not unsympathetic to their cause" leaves most foreigners confused. In contrast/addition, "The art of the sugar-coated pill" is not a Dutch attribute. So in conclusion in spite of my long relationship with the English language, I have been told people find me intimidating because I am direct.
one side of my family is from holland and even growing up in the united states, this element of dutch culture is totally ingrained in me. i had no idea this was related to dutch culture until recently. i've always been very honest, direct, and clear, and i say what i mean and mean what i say. it's a part of my personality that always made me feel like i stood out and sometimes it has caused me to attract negative attention. still, i will not change because for me, it's part of my morals. anyway, even 3rd generation dutch immigrants to other countries can still have this personality. kind of amazing.
I actually worked with a Dutch manager, who said things more directly, sequenced, and subjectively than anyone I had met before. It turns out it largely modeled her inner dialogue, and found it did for myself. My manager helped me recognize the legitimacy of my thinking simply by highlighting the same similarity in words. It helped me recognize personal truths that were false through how she approached a related topic through the same thinking (and message). Existentialism/truth may be interesting to understand/believe in the Netherlands given the closeness to their internal monologues
That's why 'actions speak louder than words'. How can you trust someone if their words don't match their actions? Being polite is normal social behaviour, but lying is just another form of rudeness.
Yes. Lieing and manipulating. Bullying behind your back and acting and expecting me being stupid enough not to notice... And being mad if i did...
There's such a thing as white lies. Some people are so good at it you won't even know they're lying. In the UK it's considered good manners. It's only when you never hear from the person again, or someone else gets the contract or job that you realise you were lied to. To me it's deception. Some people actually revel in it, because there's quite an art to it. They call it diplomacy and are very pleased with themselves when they see you've been taken in by the 'white lies' and bc it's done in such a way that you are the fool for believing them, there is nothing you can say about it later on.
I am British, but know a lot of Dutch people who are friends in Spain. I love the Dutch directness, it can take you by surprise at first, but it’s much better in the long run.
I felt the example of someone saying his hair was worse than it was before was an example of someone being both rude and direct. So I think it was a poor example to illustrate Dutch directness. Real Dutch directness is about being honest and factual; Sharing the relevant information in the most straightforward way. It's not needlessly rude or cruel. And I certainly don't expect a Dutchman to offer up such an opinion without the hair first being brought up in conversation by the person with the bad haircut, or without first being asked what they think of their hair.
I think Max Verstappen is also a perfect example of Dutch directness. He says what he thinks (like about the Las Vegas "show" event), not caring what other people might think.
I started working in a Dutch organisation a few months ago. At the start of the year we had the new year's reception and some board member have a very long speech and a live broadcast from the HQ. I was just absorbing the whole thing in and thought to myself... This is a bit long, and then my senior colleague just said "this is too long and so boring" and i was like wow okay that's Dutch directness - I had the same feeling but would dare not say that 😅
I spoke to a Englishman in Amsterdam and he wanted to learn more languages and felt bad they didnt learn it on school. I said to him he can still do it and dont need school for it. He became offended and start yelling to me. (Wanted to hear something else I think) . Ijust turned my head and went on with my day.
Grappig. 😂😂
Why would he be angry?
@@k4keko to direct maybe..?
@@benjaminvanderneut6826…hmm vaag verhaal
Yes, this! Explains a lot for me. Thank you!
I'm reminded of American Idol and how hated Simon was for telling bad singers that they were bad. When someone is a bad singer it's far worse to lie and tell them they are good and get their hopes up.
As a swedish speaking Finn I find it very easy to communicate with the Dutch. You know where you have your counterpart and can take him on his word. I have bought farming machines for myself on two occasions and also noticed that there is a pride in having a local dialect.
A Swedish speaking Finn, writing English- in which language did you speak to the Dutch? I am very impressed. Your English is better than many British people, especially the younger ones.
@@megapangolin1093 Swedish is the 1st language in some smaller coastal towns in Finland. Many of those people (but not all) also speak fluent Finnish because it makes things easier. Everyone in Finland learns English in school so I guess they were speaking in English.
Yes it's true, i 'm Dutch and we just say what we think....it saves a lot of time and energy,..
En dit is veel beter.
I am not Dutch, but totally agree. Being direct could be much more effective. Sadly most people don't like it, for them it is arrogance.
I agree, but often I get the reaction, " je weet niet hoe je moet met mensen om gaan."
Indeed geen gedoe
Indoensyians: Meneer please hold our BAJIGUR 🥃
I'm German and here in Germany people are as direct as the Dutch. If we need to bring a point across, we do it normally without dancing around the subject. Also when we write a (business) mail, we don't start by thanking them for the last meeting, for complimenting their work space or remarking on the latest vacation. We just say what needs to be addressed, and this earns us, too, tge reputation of being rude when in truth, we keep it down to business because elaborating on other things would be considered rude and a waste of time.
That's a cool business minded culture, so in that regard u would say Germans don't get offended easily as well? Compared to like brits
well, I am Dutch and work for a German company (from Lörrach) the first 3 months the German management had to get use to us, after that they wanted there own people to be this direct as well because in that part of Germany they are NOT like us at all.
NO, i have been to Germany its not the same at all. In Germany you have hierarchy. Where you can't say everything to your boss or manager. This is not the case in Netherlands where i can say anything to the highest boss without him feeling attacked.
I am born and raised in America. As far as I know, I have zero Dutch ancestry. And after watching this video, I am convinced that Amsterdam is my true homeland! I have often thought I am from an alien planet where strangely, you say what you mean and mean what you say. I can't think of a simpler way to communicate, yet I have found it to be extremely uncommon throughout my life. It turns out I just belong in the Netherlands! I am definitely going to spend my next vacation there...having one direct conversation with another human being sounds more relaxing to me than a week on a tropical beach!
Maybe you're autistic
My experience with both the Dutch and the Brits is that they both tend to be on the grumpy side. I blame it on their weather. 😎
While the Germans, Swiss or Norwegians are always in a sunny mood ;-) I think this goes for pretty much all of northwestern Europe. I've been married to an American for 14 years, I can kinda understand where they are comming from. And in fairness, I do - sometimes - prefer the fake, plastic-fantastic American smile over some genuine and honest Dutch rudeness lol...
Unless they are female while working around males in some occupations where women are expected to be nicer than men are in that kind of traditional role occupation like when being a secretary. Which some men there too would instead find only boring to be around.
Dutch guy here, indeed unbearable weather.
💯 true.
@@basbouwman5139 I live in Tucson, and we've just experienced two straight days of unusually chilly rain . . . I'm already feeling grumpy! 😎
i worked and had friends with the people from both countries in a touristic city in Turkiye. The Dutch are the preferable ones both at worklife and social life. The English seem very approachable with their kindness at first but in time, you begin to realize an invisible wall between you and them. However, a Dutch can be a real asshole if things get complicated
Yes. I often feel pushback by the British culture.
Yeah we are assholes lol
😄
@@pbentvelzen4554 dan lach je niet meer zielige vertoning
oh yes, if you fucked up just ask how WE can solve the problem.
As a Dutchman living / studying / working in Brussels, I really find the comments interesting to read. Keep it up! I personally learned to sense universal body language and cultural indirectness more easily in Belgium, which is very beneficial for me. I have a girlfriend who is very closed and raised in the Philippenes. The Flemish are more reserved and closed in similar ways. I still embrace my directness in a lot of situations. But when I want to say something might difficult to hear for a person, I package my words in a more careful way. Making sure I keep in touch with my colleague, a (potential) friend or family’s feelings. Training this I can adapt to other cultures easier, but also to people overall. Still I use my straightforwardness to freshen up things if needed, possibly using humor. But I’m trying to be nuanced and with connection, which seems to regularly be missing between a Dutch and another cultural person conversating. But maybe also from Dutch to Dutch person... From origin we are great talkers, but aren’t we sometimes less great fine tuned and quality talkers? And Englishmen, I’m sorry to say that I don’t necessarily find your conversations deep or high quality either. Or can you prove me wrong? And is there any culture which normalized talking about deep and sensitive subjects? 🤔
Your last paragraph perfectly demonstrates that it’s not a cultural difference in being direct; it’s that you consider anything you don’t know or agree with inferior. Your starting point is “I’m right and it’s unlikely you’ll change my mind”. Other cultures try to find a middle ground to facilitate communication.
I think you can replace the 'it's unlikely' with unless@@pokerpig9069 . You had a point though, the nuance was wrongly structured. I changed the first sentence a bit.
There is some contradiction here. I lived and worked in the Netherlands for 11 years and, quite honestly, found them to be exceptionally rude, especially when they realise you're a foreigner living there and not just a tourist spending money. Whereas they can be direct in a way that is very refreshing, go to your average Dutch workplace environment and you will find and extraordinary amount of people sitting at home 'stressed out' (overstuurd, as they say it there) because of their inability to resolver interpersonal conflict in the workplace. Can't get our way and/or not happy with the way your boss/HR approaches the question? Stay home and say you can't cope.
Maybe a lot of people in modern society feel that way and the Dutch are just honest about it.
@@carlgreen4222 I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
Upon another reading I'm not sure what you meant. What I was referring to was that Dutch might be more honest in a survey as to whether or not they might be stressed out, which would skew relative results of people who... beat around the bush of the truth.@@g.strauss1813
I think their 'rudeness' is very polite and respectful! With honesty, everyone knows where they stand. I prefer it over dishonesty to spare my feelings.
So the Dutch are like the Scottish! Makes sense are they share the same genes too. Hello my fellow like minded Dutch friends! 🤩🤩
Hey there you crazy Scot :)
They don't share the same genes, though
Calvinism is the common trait between the Scottish and the Dutch.
No nonsense people
... Dutch are like the Scottish ... yes, but people can understand when the Dutch speak English. LOL! (just teasing a little -- I'm English, Scottish, Irish, French, Mutt, here ...)
Growing up in Canada in an area with a lot of Dutch, German and Swiss farmers I was very influenced by the families I spent time around. My mom was a single mom so I would spend lots of playdates on friends dairy farms. My family has UK origins but because of the families I spent a lot of time around I am the most direct in my family and it's something that sets me apart from others in my family. I never thought these families were rude and their influence definitely shaped me. I have strong boundaries, am not easily influenced and am very low in neuroticism. When I receive indirect communication I feel like I can't trust the person and that they're sort of weak willed and insecure. I like to know where I stand with people. I agree with the Dutch indirect communication feels dishonest. Out of my family I am also the most comfortable with nudity and dislike people sexualizing nakedness. I think it comes from valuing honesty.
Haleluja,... you are Dutch!
I, too, am very low in neurons. Kindness is the most important variable.
HILARIOUS I always found that the French are witty, the English are funny, and the Germans are direct - Dutch- are even more so. Thankfully US Italians are passionate and stylish.
As an autistic person, Dutch culture sounds like a dream come true. I hate it when people don't say what they mean.
as a Canadian living in the USA I can relate. Americans are more direct than Canadians, which can sometimes come across as rude. After years of living here I've come to appreciate the bluntness and more direct speech of Americans. Thing that still shocks me is Americans habit of talking freely to strangers in public.
I love the way Americans speak to strangers. I find it so friendly and human. I am pretty fed up with the way people in my city pretend there is nobody around them. Great cities of the world are full of people who speak to strangers without hesitation. New York, London, Amsterdam, Mexico City are all places where I have had wonderful interactions and friendly exchanges with strangers in the same elevator, in a cafe or on the street. Paris, Montreal, Toronto are the opposite.
Where in the US do you live? It really depends where you live.
I shocks me that is shocking to talk freely with a stranger in public ! 🤯
@@karpabla God made the 8 corners in an elevator so Canadians have somewhere to stare at rather than talk.
Interesting! That Canadians don't talk to strangers in public blows my mind 🤯. I always figured that being polite (about which Canadians are famous) would go hand-in-hand with talking with strangers. In America, generally as one goes from the North to the South (as defined in the US Civil War), the more talkative strangers are, with Florida being an exception.
Saying please is kindness, it is not a sign of indirect speaking. Directness and rudeness are different things. If there is no please included, it is rude. Just say it, it takes a second.
I have lived in a foreign country, and what I have learned is that there is no such thing as a literal translation because it is less about the actual words than it is about the culture behind it. For that same reason, it is so difficult to understand ancient cultures. You would have to have lived among them to truly understand their culture, before you can adequately interpret their writing. I am convinced that many mistake interpretations about past cultures are made simply by interpreting them from our modern culture.
Dutch are direct, it's true. But thankfully, all of my Dutch friends are kind and generous. They might be blunt, but I notice that when they speak to Indonesian they tend to be more considerate.
Our Indonesian population is so very mixed into the Dutch culture. My family in law is Indonesian. Very proud about their Indonesian roots but at the same time as Dutch as it can possibly be. My husband looks Asian but he's a real cheese head. They are also very direct. It's a cultural thing i guess. Grandma was more humble when she arrived in the 50's. It had to be a scary experience. My mother and father in law owns their place in our society and are both very outspoken. My husband is just as Dufch me while my roots go all the way back to 1338 and his only since the 1950s. It takes two generations to become just as direct.
This way is the best comnection you can get, you feel more calmer
I find the Dutch direct in a good way... maybe like me (English). They have always been easy to work with in business and leisure. I was on an early image sharing web platform with a small community who got to know each other. There was a Dutch girl who got into all sorts of trouble with some (not all) of the Americans. There were two reasons for this 1) If she didn't like a photograph she would say so without sugar coating it 2) while her English was pretty good it is always difficult to gauge the strength of swear words (curse words) in another language, and she got that a bit wrong sometimes (though there happened to be an American in the group who got it wrong more often than she and he wasn't vilified). I appreciated her willingness to be straight when she didn't like something and I adopted a similar approach (it's my preference anyway) which didn't always gain me friends, but then the ones I really wanted as friends usually appreciated it.
The British are too polite to be honest The Dutch are too honest to be polite
THAT about sums it up.
I'm Dutch, been in England since the early 90s. I'd like to think I've got the hang of English politeness by now, but I still get it wrong. A few years ago a Dutch friend came to stay and didn't say 'thank you' after being served by a lady in a shop I often go to. I'm sure the friend didn't mean anything by it, she just turned away, but I was mortified and awkwardly blurted out 'thank you' to the lady to compensate for what I thought could have been perceived as a bit of a snub. Hilariously, on leaving the shop my friend then told me in no uncertain terms that _I_ had been rude to _her_ for embarrassing _her_ in front of a complete stranger. Lmfao - it's all good clean fun. I learnt a long time ago that 'maybe' means 'no' here and 'Well, we must do this again!' usually means the opposite.
@Yuri R. Ik vergeet de manier waarop Nlers reageren. Na zoveel jaar hier ... Laatste en eerste keer dat ik in Limburg was in Maastricht was als student met een railkaart. Mooie stad. Sheesh, I'm old.
Well she's in England, not Holland.
This is really interesting. Because New Yorkers -- people who were born and raised in New York City -- are also known for their directness, but are sometimes considered rude by people not from New York City. And New York has a strong Dutch history. My guess is that the Dutch way of communicating has been a strong influence in New York. New Yorkers don't consider it as rude. They consider it as being honest. And they essentially expect others to be direct in the same way, and they don't take offense. It's a way to easily and quickly share ideas and communicate. New Yorkers love what we call "straight shooters." People who tell it like it is.
I doubt the New York way has anything to do with Dutch influence. I’ve heard that New Yorkers like to brag about themselves and apparently Dutch dislike bragging and self promotion and favor modesty and humility
@@cultfiction3865 You're very obviously not from New York, and you're totally wrong -- all the New Yorkers I know dislike bragging and self promotion. You should check your sources of information.
@@PRMcDonald I’m not from New York no. There is a guy on KZhead that does regular livestreams that comes from New Jersey. He has a New York type accent. And he is definitely a straight shooter. He’s very extrovert and very direct and bold. But he is always bragging about his achievements and the amount of money he makes and boasting about how successful he is as a person. And his American friends with him seem to like him all the more for his bragging. But in some European countries such as Netherlands and especially Sweden and Finland, people will avoid boasting or embellishing themselves since they value modesty. In Sweden, if a person says he is good at something it usually means he is an expert at it. But they are too modest to ever tell you that they are an expert.
@@cultfiction3865 I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you're basing your comments on what you saw of on KZhead while I'm basing my comments on historical knowledge and decades of firsthand experience. See the problem here?
I think the British confused being fake/non-transparent with politeness. I prefer honesty and transparency (of course delivered tactfully).
I think you’re confusing being patient with being impatient. You can be polite and honest, while being patient and giving someone a bit of grace. Honestly, it sounds like most of these Dutch people are just a bunch of jerks, which I’m sure you would never describe yourself as.
Yeah people often confuse being polite with being two-faced, and 'telling it how it is' as a free pass to just be a complete jerk. Nuance, context, and not jumping to extremes seems to be lost on most nowadays.
I have met some British who BS all the time and never say what they mean, and then are offended when you take them at their word and believe their "banter". Ugh
Most cultures are indirect (living as a Dutch in Switzerland, I have connections with Swiss, but also with Germans and Italiens) but there are exceptions. People from Berlin area or from Israel for example tend to be also quit direct. Personally I like actually the different communication styles in Europe and learning about it is as interesting (and important) as learning a new language. For all international studies, this should be mandatory subject for students in my opinion.
True. I'm Israeli and can confirm. We are pretty direct 😅
If this is not a subject in international studies then I truly wonder what they are doing there. To be fair though, from a Dutch point of view many cultures also just don't know how to do business. There can be talk for months over something simple where other companies are on board much sooner and the work is a lot more effective. Germans are actually not direct at all from my experience. But then again in business you come across a lot of Germans that simply don't speak any English either. And then they get 1 guy on the phone who has the most fake practiced English and the conversation is still very painful. As if he is reading from a text book with perfect American accent and not much more.
That is good to hear. I also live in Switzerland. I have asperger so I'm very straight forward. My coleagues are not always understanding my way. But with my colleagues from Berlin I never have a problem of understanding :) Maybe I should move to Berlin or to Holland.
As estate agent in Spain, I luuuuved the Dutch. British clients could praise a house for hours, in order to be polite - and then back in the car could drill that house into the ground. Whereas the Dutch would immediately say in the nicest possible way that the property was not for them, always respecting the owners and property. That pleasant transparancy went on through the whole purchasing process.
I am surprised to hear that when a British person says, "We must meet for dinner," it's merely an empty comment. As a Canadian, I would take this quite literally and expect an invitation soon.
I live in the Southern US, and my uncle married a Dutch lady. My family, especially the older members, were very put off by her. Even amongst Americans, US Southerners are known for being overly friendly, even to the point of being fake. Unfortunately, this caused so much tension between my family and my new aunt, that she moved away. My family still talks about how rude she was.
Most Dutch people probably cannot stand the overly friendly people in southern US 😅
I don't like overly friendly, makes me always wonder what they want from me !! Sometimes i go with mine wife to the beach. And at the beach we to a bar to drink something. And there is one girl that greet us with: sweet people ! En then I think always how do you know, you don't know us ??!!!! ( bud she is correct, whe are sweet !) Bud to friendly makes me nervous !!
@@kankerbende je hebt wel weer leuke username, lekker direct to the point
Then it wil be best for youre family, never to visit the Netherlands lol. 🇳🇱😂
Poor lady was probably wondering why she always needed her heart blessed..
Being direct and meaning what you say is totally normal greetings from Germany.
Was gonna say. This video should apply to Germany and possibly Denmark
Danke mein nachbar!
Germans are similar to the Dutch, and Americans are similar to the Brits. I grew up in Germany and moved to the US at the age of 20 many decades ago. I wasn’t aware of cultural norms. Without Internet you had to learn that kind of thing yourself. My German directness didn’t always go over well. The wish-washy way Americans arranged for dates, or told you they didn’t care for something took quite a while for me to get used to. I have not lost all of that directness but have learned to temper it. By the same token, when I visit Germany nowadays I find many of them to be very rude, especially in stores. It’s hard to swallow that rudeness when the first sentence you hear from somebody, after you’ve not seen them for several years, is… “Oh I‘m glad you’re looking older, too. Now I don’t feel so bad“. An American would never say that. My answer? Yes, it’s really nice to see you, too! 🙄
I lived and studied in the Netherlands and noticed the directness. But I also noticed when i tried to adjust myself to be direct back they interpreted me as being rude which I wasn't expecting. I also noticed most didn't seem to understand banter and just took offence probably because they're quite literal in what they mean. So having a direct population in that manner isn't necessarily better in my experience, and it also makes people seem quite wooden.
It's an essential life tool to be able to deal with (and hopefully understand) people who are blunt and direct, as well as people who are guarded and cautious. Each "style" has its advantages, and I would hate to be stuck one way permanently. Each can be quite refreshing when you've had your fill of the other!
In Spanish we were taught that when writing a letter in Englis the first sentence should state the reason for the letter. In Spanish we had a whole paragraph of salutation, "hoping you're well in health work, and your family..." But even in America there was a sentence leading up to the reason. Like "After carefully reviewing.... having consulted and looking at the records..." I'm guessing now that the Dutch just say "You Were Not Approve.." in the first sentence.
direct does not need to be blunt, arrogant, hurtfull and disrepectfull. attitude does not prevent one from using a wider range of vocabulary to express needs or point of view.