Working in USA vs The Netherlands: 12 Biggest Differences
Why do Americans always talk about work? Why is the Netherlands so “burnout friendly?” Do you want to make money? Or do you want balance?
In this video, I talk about the biggest differences between working in the US and in the Netherlands.
🤓 My background (for context): I spent around 10 years working in California (San Francisco/Los Angeles) for multinationals, consultancies, and startups. I moved to the Netherlands in 2018 for a 1-year Master's program and currently work in the IT industry in Amsterdam.
⏰ CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
01:10 🪞Work identity "What do you do?"
03:20 🧠 Work mentality (American Ambition vs. Dutch "Doe Normaal")
05:26 👥 Hierarchy vs. Egalitarian (Who's the boss?)
06:04 🤝 Decision-making (Consensus vs. Top-down)
06:45 ⚖️ Work-life balance (Working hours and Part-time work)
08:29 💰 Salary comparison
11:44 🏝 Vacation
12:57 🔐 Job security
14:17 📜 Job contracts (fixed-term vs. permanent)
15:02 🏥 Healthcare
16:15 😷 Sick leave (short vs. long-term)
17:54 🔥 Burnout
18:59 Conclusion
📽 OTHER VIDEOS:
🇺🇸🇳🇱 What's it like living in the USA as a Dutchie? - • What's it like living ...
🇳🇱 Dutch Culture Shocks - • What are the biggest D...
🇳🇱 What it's like working in the Netherlands as a foreigner? - • What is it like workin...
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😁 WHO AM I?
I'm David, a Californian living in Amsterdam. I make videos about life in the Netherlands, hiking/traveling, and the Camino de Santiago.
🔸 Do you live in the Netherlands with a story to share? I'd love to hear it!
Email: hidavidwen@gmail.com
🇺🇸 What’s been your experience working in the US? In the Netherlands? 🇳🇱
🇺🇸 When I was working my first retail job (Walmart), I got salmonella. They had a point system in which missing a day after letting them know accrued one point. Five points and you're fired, and it was six months before you could start accruing sick days. So I missed four days (-4 points), but still had it while working. Then I got bronchitis, but I couldn't miss anymore days so I had to go in while coughing, along with half the people at the front registers. Finally, I had what I now know is a gout flare-up while on the job, and went home early (-.5 points). My supervisor even saw me getting wheeled into the ER that night, funnily enough. But since that or doctor's notes didn't matter, I still wound up jobless the next day when I couldn't show up.
Just finished interview today with a recruiter in the Netherlands. Planning to make the move in the next three years! Have any videos about switching over your documents or identification cards or talking to dutch embassy?
Just talk to the embassy, pretty much everything can be done in english
regaring the zesjescultuur..... Among me and my friends getting a 6 was often even seen as better than a 10. Because the culture/schooling system cares little about grades and a lot more about pass vs fail getting a 6 often means you got the same results as the person with the 10, you just did it a lot more efficiently
@@SpoonfedPig now is software tech the nr.1 industry where amurica outshines pretty much every country. It's like talking about that you make more money in switzerland as a banker than in the Netherlands 😅
My hack as a Dutchie is working for American companies while being under Dutch local labor laws :)
Just make sure you’re AOW is taken care of. My college misses out on a few years because he used to work for an English company.
@@hunchbackaudio Doesnt that only apply if you work abroad if the country?
@@lolzorkont No that’s a big mistake, when you’re company doesn’t pay for it, you’ll be shortened on your AOW allowance and you can’t make up for it later, no matter how many years you have worked. Consider yourself warned.
Amazing advice. I personally have a Dutch contract, so all is settled. It is indeed wise to be familiar with your rights. Trust me, if companies abroad can neglect them, they will without a doubt. Already experienced this twice.
@@hunchbackaudio Damn that's quite harsh. I worked in NL with Dutch companies, but yeah that does suck.
I work for a Dutch company which also has a branch in USA (California). Now one of the biggest difference that I find (not covered in the video) is the name-&-blame culture. In our American office if something goes wrong, the first question asked by the managers is who-did-it or whose-fault-is-it. In the Netherlands on the other hand that will never be the first or the last question. You always start with - ''OK..Something has gone wrong. How can we fix it?" Once the issue is contained/solved you do an assessment as to how it can be avoided in the future. In my 6 years of working in the Netehrlands, I have never seen finger pointing.
Very true, find the problem, find the solution. Don't start pointing fingers as it will cause the problem not to be resolved and could even make matters much worse.
Nothing wrong with holding people accountable for mistakes they make. Zachte heelmeesters maken stinkende wonden.
I think the difference is more that in america theyre actively searching for someone to punish, while in the Netherlands, they see it as a "leermomentje" (learning moment) so you can learn from your mistake, but no really be held accountable
@@sparqqling True at some point you have to hold people accountable if a pattern emerges. But in most cases someone who ment well was able to make a mistake. Fixing that mistake and figuring out how to adjust the process so someone else won't make the same mistake using the input of the person that made the mistake is always better than just creating an enviroment of fear that blocks this progress. In most cases and in my opinion a mistake is rarely just the fault of the person 'doing the work'. And them sharing what they need and how they need it is gold.
@@DirkZz indeed nothing wrong with making mistakes, but you own them, fix them and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Please note that according to conversion scales, a 7.5 is the same as an A in America. In the US it is extremely easy to get a 80+ score on your test. Whereas in Dutch terms this would be an A++. The Dutch scale is just different. 10 means literally perfect, and is seen as unattainable. So if you have an average of 7.5 here it's the equivalent of a 4.0 GPA in the US. This puts the 'sixes' culture in perspective. I have also heard from many people who studied in the US how extremely easy everything was, but that's another story.
Thanks for sharing Ben. I feel a lot better about my “7” now!
As someone who studied both in the US and The Netherlands I can attest to that. Everyone in the us is obsessed by their GPA, but it’s actually pretty easy to get an A if you just put in the work. Just putting in the work here in the Netherlands will probably get you between a 6 and a 7.5
This I see for Canada too, I was on the honors list in Canada with mid-to-high 90s but hitting average of 6's in the Netherlands.
US students at dutch universities are also mostly surprised by how much more difficult it is, and how you cannot get your grade up by doing extracurricular activities
I’m a bit confused. Could you explain to me how that works with ‘the scale’? Let say 50 points is a 100% score: 10 . 60% is a 6. How does that work in the US?
At my previous job here in the Netherland there was a tile with a poem right next to my desk that someone had put there prior to me starting there: "Werk rustig, zonder zorgen, want wat niet af is doen we morgen! Hou je pauze wel in ere, alleen een gek werkt zich de klere!" The exact translation doesn't work too well, so I'm taking a little bit of liberty to keep a bit of rhyme to it "Work calmly, without worries or sorrow, cause what's not finished we'll do tomorrow. Do remember to honor your breaks, only a madman works himself to a rage."
I want that poem next to my desk now..thanks for sharing!
Excellent translation!
That is a spot on translation 😊
Geweldig😂😂👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
It sounds great. Put that stuff up here in 'Merica and they'll walk you.
I think the best example of Dutch work mentality is the "Don't stay too late!" being a regular thing people say to colleagues still working when you go home at the end of the day. The true meaning is somewhere between: "make sure you don't overwork yourself" and "don't make me look bad by working harder than I do".
Exactly, that's what I think.
Aw that's such a nice saying "Don't stay too late!" I've heard that quite often myself in NL (and have learned to tell others to stop working past a certain time too!)
It is not that we think that we would look bad if someone works longer. It's that we worry ther is somthing wrong. Why do you prefer work above your social life. Ofcours you have te make sure that your work is don. But if you can't manage it, tell your co-workers or boss. then the team will help out. Life and work has to be fun!!! WORK TO LIVE
The “don’t make me look bad by working harder than I do” have I experienced at a vacation-job. First day the boss tells me that 10 tons of production is the standard. The boss has left and all the colleagues tell they only produce 8 max a day and no need to work harder. In my first week we did barely 8 tons a day on average. The boss asked me why, explained we had various problems. His only comment was: “you have already adjusted nicely to the work-mentality here.” Every day we produced 8 tons and that was fine and got paid in full.
If you work to beyond office hours without extra pay you love work time more then private time 😂.
In the army dutch (air mobile) i helped with a survived camp for 16 year olds. A marine and i organized a river crossing. They had to build a make shift bridge. He did it the American style: lots of yelling and top to bottem leadership. They were faster and theirs collapsed and they got wet and had to start over. I explained the knots and strategy and let the kids to their thing. We took longer, but our construction was so strong it took an hour to deconstruct it. That's the Dutch way. Many brains always beat one.
🇳🇱
Meanwhile, guys are standing in carcinogenic smoke at the burnpits, because there is no money for protective gear and a bureaucrat has ordered that you can't use your gas mask. (for which you're only issued minimum-safety CS gas filters anyway) See a bunch of insurgents? Americans do a 'Murica, f*ck yeah' and several loud explosions later, no more insurgents. Dutch army? Ohnoes, we'll actually have to kill someone, we better call the politicians who instantly demand that you don't use artillery because ohnoes you might hit a civilian. And you get the Battle For Chora in which many civilians were killed as a result of this utterly paralysed decision-making that relies on even fanatical leftwingers okay'ing the compromise. Spiciest is 1998, when Groenlinks demanded that the defense minister explain why armed jihadi terrorists had been run over by Dutch armoured vehicles in 1995, which took place under artillery fire, a single day after the same jihadi terrorists had murdered a gunner of one of those vehicles. Unfortunately it is not legal within our parliament for Joris Voorhoeve to step away from the microphone, grab a piece of wood and beat some common sense into Groenlinks. 😆
Thanks for sharing. Haha the yelling. Interesting to hear you call the "lots of yelling" the American leadership style-but of course, if it's the army and US Marine-one would expect nothing less! Lots and lots of yelling indeed...and this style/mentality is also built into American sports too. But great example of different leadership styles, thanks for sharing!
@@hidavidwen It ripples down even further from there. The US army's leadership is mainly focussed on authority and doctrine. Usually, a plan needs to be executed the exact way the authority higher wants it to, and all rules need to be followed very closely. The Dutch military (mainly airforce and navy), makes a clear distinction between strategy, tactics and operations. The higher ups (generals, colonels etc) are in control of strategy, while 'lower' ranks (captains - soldiers) are in charge of the tactical and operational side. I believe the US also has this system, but the difference is that the Dutch military also uses it for their command and control. For example, whenever a plan needs to be exectuted, a general/colonel will devise the strategy (the why). They then give it to a lower rank (major/captain), which devises the overview of the plan (the how). Finally, the lowest ranks will receive the plan, and they will plan and execute it how they have been trained (the what). This seperation allows each layer to add their own expertise and set requirements, while giving the soldiers/officers that have to execute it enough freedom to interpret the plan and make changes.
@Sem also for the infantry. Usually a lieutenant did a briefing, then the srgt had 3 control fases. One to see if he understood the Lt's objectives and then one to see if the srgt understood all facts and one in which the srgt has to explain his "how", as in how hes gonna execute it. Then he preps the briefing for the men, which is a combination of thr 3 steps above and a bit extra as it needs a lot more detail. No clue how if exactly happened from the higher officers, but i imagine there's a similar system. But i left the army as a Sargeant
I’m an American expat in the Netherlands and agree with everything in this video! I came here for an experience and for my kids to go to school safely. Nowhere is perfect, but American culture is obsessed with money and defining everyone by their success and constantly comparisons to each other. In NL, most people drive decent cars, have good homes, but they value great holidays, music, experiences.
Thanks for sharing Adam 🙏
Those Dutch are trying to turn you into a dutchie
They value...broodjes en kaas 😂😂
It’s not about culture, it’s about capitalism which is almost pure in US.
It's the same here just with a different flavor, you have to act modestly but spend heavily to fit in among 'the cool kids'. Like pride yourself about biking to work and saving on a sandwich but then spending thousands on a trip to the Carribeans or Bali with a luxurious villa (incl staff). You judge others for using heating (ooh niet duurzaam) but then you fly 3x a year to exotic destinations across the world. You drive a tesla, but our electricity is so dirty that we are at the bottom of sustainability list in Europe. Most friend groups are distinguished based on wealth and race and there is so little contact inbetween even in Amsterdam. Most kids from Bijlmer or Nieuw West don't go for nice holidays at all and have so little in common with native 'Dutch'. As expats we stay in our bubble for so long but at some point if you get involved on just slightly deeper level in the society you will understand how f-ed up this country really is. I've been here for quite a while but I see NL is lightyears away from the image they created in their heads and the one they portray to others.
I am dutch, and i can approve everything he says in this video. Less bragging and judgement, i love it. We are very simple people in a way that we just like to get shit done without any hassle, just study, get a job, make sure you feel good and earn enough to be happy, not to earn more than your neighbour.
Thanks for sharing!
And be broke and very average👍
@@freedomfyter yeah i would also rather sacrifice my life expectancy for money i dont need 😊😊😊
@kallum oh wow amazing for you if your Dutch makes your Dutch booty super worth the special by typing that in English 👏👏👏
This makes me so incredibly happy to be a Dutchie. Also makes me realise what a massive privilege it is to be raised with these values from a young age.
Cringe
Too bad you percieve it as a privilege. Should be bare minimum for every human in the world, and build upon that to make life even ebtter for everyone.
Too bad most Dutchies aren't aware of the privileges they actually have and keep nagging how bad their (working)lives are ...
@@LessaIsLief No that is in fact a good thing. There needs to be more unionization, organisation, more demands. Especially in the professions like health care, cleaning, teaching, and the like.
@@LessaIsLiefwell I want to pay less taxes… 😂
Part of why the Dutch (and Belgian people) have this sixes culture is also because our education system has a philosophy of "there's always room for improvement", which is why it is nearly impossible to get a perfect grade, especially when it's a test with open questions or when handing in a paper. This while in America, they feel like it should also be said if something is simply flawless. At least, that's the difference I noticed during my stay in Texas.
Thanks for sharing…ah, I like that concept that there’s always room for improvement. Education is another big topic…curious to hear since you also spent time in Texas…what are pros/cons of the Sixes culture mentality?
True, try getting higher than an 8/10 on any kind of "presentation" or subjectively graded subject, it's very difficult. I'm quite proud of ending my final college report with an 8/10, but translating it to American grades it would be a B-, suddenly doesn't sound so good anymore 😂
It is impossible to get higher than 9,5 out of 10 because of that reason.
Een tien is voor de meester.
True, you can file in the worlds gratest paper and the teacher won't give you a 10 because of their principle that nothing is perfect.
As an expat in the Netherlands, I can completely acknowledge that the work-life balance here is incredible! There is no peer-pressure to do a side hustle. It's like just be normal and be humble no matter how much you earn.
Thanks Shahruq, glad you could relate and seems like you're doing well here!
Wow. I so live in the wrong country Canada is starting to feel more and more like the states except more expensive and thank god generally we don’t have the same enthusiasm for guns
The main perks of canada before 2015 was to have developed country perks but cheap cost of living Rent used to be low. Cost of food, products, bills were low. Buying a big modern house with huge garden in the back, near a big city was cheap Then i dont know what happen but by 2015, price of everything raised like crazy Now canadians are wondering if life is that expensive. Might as well move to florida texas spain or south of france. At least you gonna have good climate, sun, the beach and a fun city to be in. For the same cost of living or even cheaper The fact that toronto vancouver cost 2 times the average rent of Miami or Barcelona is hillarious 😂😂😂😂
dark side of it is when you don't apply by this rules people will begruge you and if you do want to stand out people will ridicule you and try to bring you down.
I have never seen such a well-detailed, well-oriented video like this one. This guy has a gift for explaining complicated things into a simple way. I love every bit of this video because it goes so in-depth and he answers so many things. I am so glad I came across this KZhead channel.
Aw thanks a lot for the kind words :) Really appreciate it!
Amazingly explained video, David! I'm originally from Honduras, and I moved from Rochester, NY, to Eindhoven about three years ago. I relate to each and every single thing you mentioned. Your opening statement is something that I often tell my friends in the US, too: I make < 50% of my US salary, but I feel my life is healthier, happier, and more balanced now. I'm more physically active now because I cycle everywhere and have more time after work to play volleyball and even join a volleyball club. I can use my vacation time to go back to my home country AND do 3-4 holiday trips around Europe a year, I was able to take sick leave of 3-4 months to recover from burnout, I could work just 36 hours a week, I don't have to worry about medical emergencies leaving me broke. And it will take me A LOT less time to get Dutch citizenship compared to American one. So moving here was a very welcome change in my life.
Thanks José, especially nice to hear from someone who also lived/worked in the US and now in NL. Yeah after you get over the “oh wow, my salary is a lot lower,” you realize that life is still good and in many ways better without a higher salary! I’m sitting here at Schiphol airport typing this awaiting my flight to France as I am starting my “summer holidays”…I can already see the offices slowing down as Europe is getting ready for summer vacation..and it’s pretty nice :)
Wanted to compliment you, most Americans misrepresent "doe normaal" to represent rigid conformity, glad to see you got it right!
Thanks for the compliment! Took me some time to truly understand it but thanks to people like you, now I do. Thanks!
Many Dutch people, including me, always thought of “doe normaal” as rigid conformity. I truly feel like there are two different definitions of it going around.
@@DanAndHoe What it means is "don't be rude". I've never heard the phrase used any other way.
Doe normaal. Don't over hype your own contribution.
"Doe normaal" is a double-edged sword that favours people with systemic power. From my Dutch POV "doe normaal" means "act within the norm". "The norm" refers to Dutch culture or even the Dutch system. In some cases "act normal" will mean "be humble", in other cases it may mean "be quiet", "don't speak up" and even "suppress your individuality". I think as a general rule "doe normaal" is rigid conformity, also in the way that is explained by @hidavidwen, it's just that some people think that the norm they are conforming to is comfortable, while others are oppressed.
the "zesjescultuur" is also because in the Netherlands people look at your degree (if required for the job), but no-one asks for your grades (as they often do in, for example, Germany). So to me a passing grade (6) equals the optimal result with the least amount of effort. That is basically the textbook definition of efficiency 😀!
Thanks for sharing! Makes sense =) #efficiency hahah
not all jobs, law firms do explicitly ask for your grades
After working for a US multinational for more then 29 years i can say your summary is so true. I now started working for a dutch IT firm, 36hrs a week and i love it.
Thanks for sharing your experience too! 36 hours...had never heard of the "concept" until coming here...and 32 hours too...but it works!
I’m dutch, working for an international company aswell. I don’t recognize the fact you raised about our work culture be more laid back. I would say we work smarter, take more time to think and don’t wait for other to fix stuff for us, as our mentality is to do it ourselves. Taking ownership, not being affraid to make mistakes like in the US. Where you can get fired and hired on the same day
Exactly the point I wanted to make. I also know multiple cases whereby 'we' as Dutch and working in the US were considered way more productive
I agree. Worked a couple of times with Americans, they make more hours but are way less efficiënt / effective. They just make hours for the sake of making hours. Dutch people do the same amount of work, but need less hours to do it.
The exact same things I encounter on a daily base. We Dutch are know for our efficiency, being direct, honest, and getting things done. But, always with 2 legs on te ground. We often get jaw opening responses from what we achieve. There is a work hierarchy, but almost never on a personal level. Without sounding cocky, thus far I’ve experienced so called bottlenecks are set by cultural differences, like the Belgian kindness, German hierarchy, French boldness, The Asian mentality to avoid admitting mistakes or acknowledge not understanding, or the American way to think everything can be fixed with money... However, thus far I have great experiences with our nordic neighbours who have a similar mentality. Denmark, Norway, Sweden etc.
One thing to add here: we/Dutch like to work together, as we don't have to 'fight' for bonuses etc, our goal is to make our company (read: customers/clients) better
The US work ethos is comparatively more aggressive. Signing up for extensive, unpaid overtime, well outside normal working hours, dealing with work issues on your time off (eg. e-mails etc), taking on responsibilities of other roles - these are not merely common, they are *expected*. It does not relate to productivity or efficiency - it's the mere approach to work that's different.
I don't know how it's now, but when I was working in the Netherlands, 30 years ago, you could only be fired if the company went bankrupt, if you refused to work, or if you spoiled the work atmosphere; but the boss was also not allowed to spoil de werksfeer. So, if the company found cheaper workers, they could not fire you. While I find that US bosses think that taking your work is "giving you work" and is a favor they do you and they can stop doing at will. They also call personeelszaken (issues of the workers) human resource, as if the workplace can have stocks of paper, ink, cleaning materials, and workers. I find working for US bosses reminiscent of the slave society, and it's not hard to guess why.
Still the same/ similar. The reason for this is to prevent the abuse of workers and short term contracts. You can only offer a short term contract for x period of time and after that you are forced to either hire them full time which will happen (“automatically”). In terms of firing it is VERY hard to fire somebody exactly as you put it. There are nuances to it but in general you must really do something outrageous in order to get fired. It all must be properly documented as well. If somebody is not doing great at their job there must be multiple chances to improve and the employer must come with a plan to improve whatever the situation might be. Also, if fired and the employee goes to court the employer must be able to show that it gave the employee enough time, provided him/her with the right equipment, set them up to succeed , has realistic expectations, etc… Also with prolonged sickness you can only get let go after 2 years of being sick. However, there is a whole lot that goes into this process that is too much to explain. But it’s a very detailed process and it’s all designed to protect the worker from being exploited.
They can also fire you if they can show that the job you do is simply not needed anymore and that there's not another job in the company that is suitable for you. But the most common way to get rid of people is simply by paying them compensation, so they don't fight their dismissal. Most people will simply take the money and go.
They can fire you but they have to make a case. This onyl applies if you have a permanent contract, temporary contract ofcourse can be stopped. When you have an permanent contract they cant just say that you are late (for example) but they have to record it and make a case and work with you on it. Your contract can also be bought out, often depending on how long you work.
Thanks everyone for sharing all these additional insights! Sounds like in the Netherlands today...once you have a permanent contract, you get a lot of employee protection rights and one cannot just be "fired"
"Thanks to" conservative laws, you can now be fired for nothing while those same conservatives also hollowed out the social security net that keeps you from drowning when that happens. 40 years ago you started at a company and worked there until your pension. Now, you would be lucky if you got less than 20 employers in 10 years time on your CV, which is a good ground for companies to turn you down. On the one hand they only give you short employment contracts, and on the other hand they complain that you ar a "job hopper" because of all those short contracts that they themselves give you.
About the 6jescultuur as a dutch guy: what i remember from school is that it is better to get good grades. But our education system gives a lot of subjects that young students not necessarily get to choose (languages like french, german, english and of course our own). 6jescultuur was (i think) born from the fact that it is nice to pass a subject you don't like or just fare less well in instead of failing it. E.g: "It's so difficult to learn all these french words and i don't enjoy it, but at least i passed the test even though just barely". I might be wrong but that is how I feel.
Thanks Mark for sharing. Haven't heard that perspective before but makes sense. The 6jescultuur is a mentality that still fascinates me so much because coming from an American & Asian background...just passing...is looked down upon (especially in the education system)! But it seems to work for the Dutch:) Thanks again
@@hidavidwen wow thanks for replying! I think there are many ways to look at it, even as a dutch person! I think you explained your views very well and you've looked at with a clear mind.
@@hidavidwen i went to middelshool with just 7s lol. as long as you study when your a bit older and get to a higher level youll be allright
The way I (and most of my friends) looked at it when we were still at school was the following: Anything above 5.5 is "voldoende" (literally translates to "good enough"). Although it's nice being able to get extra points, good enough is good enough. So instead of saying you should get higher than a 5.5, we were of opinion that the test should be made harder if 5.5 wasn't considered good enough.
I think that 6jes cultuur is based on our long term life long learning, it's better to pass and see the next step and learn along instead of fail and get stuck there.
As a Dutch person I do have to add something about education. There is this term called: Downdaten. This means you are dating with someone who has a lower study level than you do yourself. So yes, the school you go to is less important to us, but we judge based on level you study at. You mentioned you go to Maastricht University. This means you are higher educated, so you will not notice that people look down on you. Would you’ve gone to a MBO-levelled (lower education) school… the first question you’d get would be: “So, are you going to do a second study?… if not.. followed by: “Why not?” And the grown ups who never got to the HBO-level (higher educated).. they all say: I wish I had done that. It’s a big thing.
Oh wow Downdaten-never heard of this but just googled it. But yeah...that makes sense...humans in general naturally judge based on these factors...I guess it happens everywhere. Thanks so much, I'm planning to explore education very soon and this is helpful!
@@hidavidwenthe reason why people would want to reach hbo is because with it you're almost certain to go to university (most studies will need a certificate which states you either have done hbo or higher, hbo is second highest for secundary school)
Beter een 6 zonder stress, dan een 7 zonder leven - aka beter a 6 without stress, than a 7 without a life (6/stress and 7/life rhyme). For some classes this is my motto, because that’s all I have. Okay: in terms of making money what you have to keep in mind is what is done with taxes. Ie healthcare, public transport, social security, roads etc.
Thanks Yvonne for sharing. Oh I wish I had that when I studied (6 without stress better than 6 without a life)! Life would be more fun (school was VERY stressful for me). Just passing was "unacceptable" for me too...well "just passing" does not work for most US students unfortunately-the system is different. Of course, one can succeed without getting good grades (eg. entrepreneurs, etc) but they are also the exceptions.
@@hidavidwen I could be wrong but it seems to me that US education system doesn't have the different levels of education that the Dutch system has. When you're in a HAVO, and you routinely get 9's or 10's as grades, then you're in the wrong school, and you should move up a level.
I think a decent way to explain Dutch schools is that you can be challenged until you get 6s, which is indeed good enough, you pass, and get a diploma according to your abilities. After which you can just continue to do whatever and/or keep “upgrading” until there’s nothing left
@@hidavidwen My spouse is a teacher and he says that one of the things he learned was that Americans mark on a curve. So they have a class make a test and see how well they do, looking for the median and the people who do better than that pass. So in effect you are competing with your classmates and another class can make the same test, but score differently. In the Netherlands you decide the grading in advance. So in some cases a large portion of the class can pass - or can fail.
Goeie omg 😂😂 net wanneer ik afgestudeerd ben🤦🏾♀️
In Norway there is a very old saying that basically translates to "Don't think your special." No mater who you are, what you do, how much you earns, your not special. Your just like everyone els, your worth is just the same as everyone els, your opinion is never worth more then others. Your just a other person, trying to live your life the way you want to live. And I really like that mentality. It also means, your never worth less then anyone els because of what ever reason. We are all just like everyone els.
Thanks for sharing. Sounds like the mentality is also similar over in Norway too!
I love Norway, in fact I'm a big Scandinavia fan. Not saying the Danes, Swedes and Fins are the same, but it's more connected to my own mentality as a Dutch person, than, to mention one, the mentality of our Southern neighbors, the Belgians. Direct, sober, equality, tolerant, we share many of the same values. AND I love Lofoten!
Working 30 hours a week is so nice. I spread it across Monday thru Friday so I work 6 hours a day. I arrive early and leave in the middle of the afternoon with plenty of time to go to stores, appointments at other places, etc. Home on time for dinner. Perfect
Nice! Seems like you enjoy it. Thanks for sharing
I live in Switzerland were working full time means 42/43 hours per week. Everythig ess is considered part time. Reducing the hours i sformany unthinkable. I work 80% which is still 34 hours. 6 hours is great, 9 hours are just too long in my opinion.
Totally agree with you. I am an expat from Russia and I noticed the same mentality differences between our cultures. One of my Dutch friends told me once: “if a person can’t do the job in time, then it’s not enough time”. It blew my mind. Because in my home country it definitely would be “if a person can’t do the job in time, then it’s a wrong person”. People value their personal life much more than career in the Netherlands. And I absolutely love it, because everyone around is much happier here.
🙏🙏
I agree with the Dutch point of view. 32 years with the same company, 2 nervous breakdowns, and complete disillusionment later, i can say emphatically, you made the right choice.
Thanks Hortencia. Are you working in the US? What happened when you "broke down" in regards to your work? (eg. were you able to take time off, get the help you needed, etc) Hope you are well now
@@hidavidwen My current boss at that time expected that my employees finish assigned tasks early. These were unrealistic expectations because I didn't have enough employees for the work assigned. So I started working with my employees and my own work suffered. One day, as I was working, I had a heavy piece of machinery got away from me and damaged a Tesla parked nearby. I never even noticed when it happened. Nevertheless, I was suspended from work. I can honestly say, I never really recovered from that. So a year later, I was forced to work until 2:29AM. When I finished, I signed my retirement papers. This was in Los Angeles, CA. Retirement has been very good for me.
@@hortenciabeltran4666 insane story enjoy your retirement tho and respect for putting in that work.
That BROOD on your wall telling how much you really love this country. 🇳🇱 i think we're all happy you're happy here.
Aww yeahhh thanks! 🖼🖼🖼
I totally approved of the showing off culture there ^^
I've had a burnout, got 5 final warnings as a result of no longer being able to keep up, eventually got demoted instead of fired, worked a more basic job while receiving the same pay. 3 people were hired to do what I did on my own, but they couldn't heck it. I got offered my old job back, got a 10% raise and better benefits. Netherlands is awesome.
Your videos are really helping get into the perspective of getting back to college and possibly one day moving to the NL. Thanks for your peaceful videos
Thanks :) best of luck to you!!
A few years ago I compared income and cost of living with an American friend of mine who is 5 years older and has a few more years of work experience, in similar sectors although they had a few more responsibilities. Their yearly salary including bonus was nearly double mine before taxes, but after deducting cost of living, I ended up with $5K more and had nearly double the paid leave (sick days couldn't be compared as they are "unlimited" in the Netherlands). The major differences were student loan debt and healthcare costs, but taxes were also more than expected as they had to pay them at every level (county, state and federal) rather than one percentage. Oh and of course I'm already building up my pension and AOW, which they have to save up for from their salary. but we didn't even factor that in.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. Yeah cost of living is another (big) factor to take into consideration along with other costs one may have such as student loans/healthcare
Als jij denkt dat dit zo blijft… keep on dreaming. You will own nothing and will be happy. Het is geen democratie meer, maar Ned. Is een totalitaire staat. Stem wat anders dan D66 of VVD want die maken ons land kapot tot op de bodem. Een WEF staat.
@@hidavidwen It is also very difficult to compare cost of living as all of my American friends live in a house the size of which would be considered a villa in the Netherlands. A freestanding house with no connecting neighbors is extremely expensive in the big cities in the Netherlands, while this is very common in the US suburbs. There's another channel (NotJustBikes) that explains why this is a huge problem in the US, but to be honest, I would love to live in a US-sized house.
@@pluisjenijn but their house is also made out of cardboards instead or normal quality brick houses like in europe
@@antoniobaak146 I wouldn't care. In earthquake country brick houses don't survive. And maintenance on a wooden house is much easier than my brick house. Brick houses last for 70 years or so (they are tearing down houses that are older here because they have very bad insulation). I have never understood why people prefer brick houses.
You videos are authentic and precise. Thanks bro
Thanks Abiodun, appreciate the kind words! 🙏
What a great clip. So well explained with a good eye for two different worlds. Fascinating.
Thanks 🙏
Fantastically informative. So grateful to you for sharing your intellect and perspective.
Thanks for the kind words and for watching!
I love your video's David. Shared this on my Facebook wall. I was a 6-culture student. At first because I was totally unhappy, coming from a small elementary school, ending up at a HUGE junior high in the center of Rotterdam. I was extremely shy, we were immigrants from Indonesia where we tend to be more modest. With a 6 as a score, I could pass to the next class. Nowadays I am a sort of implementation (project) manager for a bank, doing very well. Smart bosses in the Netherlands were lesser interested in your school grades, rather in your experience (nowadays it became more American, but that's because we have so many highly educated people that corporates can do cherry picking). In February I just recovered from a burnout. It took me a year to recover. I simply worked to hard. Especially during the covid lockdown I made working weeks of 50 or more hours, simply because I had nothing else to do. When I got sick, two weeks off, I got fully paid. My teamleader was very supportive as well as our company doctor. After two weeks I started with a couple of hours per day, which after a couple of months was extended with half an hour more, each week if possible (if I okay'd). After half a year or so, I got 80% over the hours I didn't work. My company doctor advised my to go to a psychologist. That was a great advice, since the psychologist helped me a lot (I am a compulsory worker, addicted to work). The psychologist was fully paid by my health insurance. Education, having studied or not, your job is totally not a topic when socialising. You pick the friends you like, independent of what they earn. Since we all have a different backgrounds, it is not interesting to nag about your work. We chat about the things we have in common. Looking foreward to your next video!👍🏽
Thanks Fitz! I'm curious...because I also came from an immigrant Asian family...and so there was the added pressure to get good grades in school...did you get that pressure or was a 6 good enough for your family too? And glad to hear you are now recovered. Yeah, burnout had definitely increased during COVID (around the world)...so you're not alone. But glad to hear that you got treated well, and your company was very supportive. That is something I find very different and fascinating...the "casual" talk about burnout...especially because I work in HR (and so I hear of this more often than others)...but also just people I meet. But it's because there are protection rights for human health (which I believe should be the case in every civilized country). And yeah about education and your job...that is totally the topic of conversation during most socializing in the US? =) Thanks for sharing David
@@hidavidwen good night! I realise that within Chinese families, and also Indian (dot) families there can be some pressure on the children to succeed. However, I am Moluccan. Melanesian people (related to Hawaiians) are islanders who tend to have a carpe diem mentality. My parents insisted on education but there was luckily no pressure. I was timid, shy and didn't know what to do with the mentality of Dutch children, who are more cheeky and outgoing as I was. It took me decades to become equally outgoing and Dutch direct. Luckily there is no taboo on burnouts here, and I experienced lots of support. I have a senior position now. The juniors found it refreshing that I spoke openly on what I went through and the process of recovery. I learnt a lot on myself, basically. I told them, how striking it is: when people break a leg, or catch a virus people tend to speak openly about it, so why not when your sickness turns out to be a burnout. Take care ✌🏼
I agree with a lot you say and this makes me happy to be Dutch. Right now you are speaking only about Dutch people as adults though, but not about growing up and getting there. Yes, you don't have to get a 8, 9 or 10 on tests nobody expects that really. It's great if you do but you don't get preceived as better than others. But it is very good if you can make it during school first to your HAVO or VWO and later on get a Bachelor or Masters degree. For young people this does come at a great pressure if your family keeps asking what you're doing right now for example. If you're going to a HBO or University it's very good, but if you are not people do frown upon this a little. They do expect you to perform in school get into HAVO or VWO first and then HBO or University. Once you have made this and you work people are less caring about what you really do. Althought they do like to hear that you work as a consultant or lawyer for example. But you would not get judged ever if you do something less "special". As long as you are happy with it and earn decent amount you are fully respected.
Funny thing with that though: since we have so many 'highly educated' people in the Netherlands, there's a shortage of workers in the 'lower' class. Which means they can earn a lot of money these days! The times of "you've got to study hard and go to a University or else you will end up with a shitty, low paid job" are gone. We've put too much energy in that and missed the target.
Thanks for sharing. Education in the Netherlands is something that I am still trying to understand (though I've talked to quite a few people). I hear there's the pressure to decide what path you want to go on when you're a teenager (eg. 13)? Curious to hear your thoughts on the education system in NL...
Well yes. In secondary school you pick a direction, based on your skills and interesting. This can be STEM related, or more towards languages and/or culture. Dependant on which level of education you're following, secondary school is between 4 and 6 years. I guess you make that decision earlier in the shorter courses, so at an age of 14 or so. Still, nothing is set in stone. You see a lot of jobs these days require at least an "HBO denkvermogen", so they know you can be taught new stuff in that job.
@@hidavidwen It works like this: Age 4-5 you start at the "basisschool" = in English there is not really a word for it but lets call it "basic school". You start at class 1 and end at class 8. So it's 8 years, but very often you stay 1 year longer in one of the years. So at age of 13 or so you leave this school and you get an advice from your school: VMBO, MAVO, HAVO or VWO. VMBO is lowest and VWO is highest. Age 12-14 you start on the "middelbare school" lets call it "middle school" in English. Depending on your advice you do 4 to 6 years. VMO/MAVO = 4 years, HAVO = 5 years and VWO = 6 years. So you are between 16 and 20 when you leave "middle school". Some people start on VMBO end at HAVO. But also some start at VWO but end up at HAVO. Around your second your you often stay at your level or switch higher or lower. During your 3rd or 4th year you choose a direction a little. But it's like you want some more economics classes or more like cultural classes like history or phyisics. In your 4th (VMBO/MAVO), 5th (HAVO) or 6th (VWO) you do your final exam and you graduate. 50% is based on your final exams and 50% on your average grades of past 2 years. At age 17-20 you start at the MBO, HBO or University (also called WO). At HBO and University (WO) you can get a Bachelors degree. Takes 4 years. At University you can get your Masters degree. Take 4-5 years. Most people dont make it in 4-5 years and end up 6 years. At the MBO you do more practical professions and at HBO its Applied Science and University its Science. Each MBO, HBO or University (WO) has a focus. So one MBO might be to work on becoming an expert on repairing cars. An HBO you might become a Marketeer or Teacher. On an University you can become a Marketeer or Teacher too, but also you can become a Doctor. With an HBO you can become almost anything and with an WO you can too. If you only have an MBO you can't do all professions but you can build yourself up. I know plenty people that only have MBO but work with colleagues all have HBO or higher. They build themself up as experts without degree and if you showed you done work at HBO or higher level they hire you. So at age 20-25 i'd say we all done with school. Although some people do take little longer and get to age of 27-28. Could be because they first do MBO for example then go HBO. Or because they start at HBO and go WO after. I hope this explains it well :)
@@lolzorkont nice explaination. I did notice you made a small mistake you wrote: Vmbo is the highest and VWO is the highest which should be Vmbo is the lowest and VWO is the highest. (Although after Vmbo and mbo you can still get a job that pays a lot i think cuz there is a shortage of ppl that did those schools)
I really love that you don't judge one or the other, simply point to the differences
Thanks for pointing that out. That was what I was trying to achieve...to try to be objective as I can while sharing my own "subjective" opinions... so others can think for themselves...
Wow thank you for the in depth comparison. I especially appreciated the Excel sheet of the salary comparison! I will be moving to Utrecht with my fiancee soon and we were wanted to see the difference in what we'd take home with less salary. I also appreciate the sources you include for every stat you present. Thank you so much for the effort you put in this video!
You’re welcome Lei Ann! And I’m on my way to Utrecht as I reply to you at this moment, beautiful place! Enjoy it!!
Great video! Just one side note about US culture. The US is diverse in culture and values. Growing up in Minnesota, for example, status and money were not as important as earning decent and providing for the family. On the other hand, my Chicago family is very focused on salary and job title.
Thanks Kayley! Context is important and things are also different from region to region too. How are you enjoying life in NL?
hahaha key point to bring up, when comparing a country of 18 million the size of socal with a country of 300something million, it gets tricky in the details. i think because of the nature of expat workforces, much of europe only sees americans from a certain class and usually well to do regions, we dont export a representative sample of the whole thing
That's more a subjective people thing.
What year did you grow up in Minneapolis? Minneapolis-St Paul is one of the most expensive places in the Midwest. Everything from home prices to foods and services are overpriced. Your retirement and social security also get taxed. I am not sure if you still in Minnesota but if you still do I challenge you to drive on 169, 494 and I-35 and see how horrible of a traffic you get. The MSP airport is one of the most expensive to fly from when compared to O’Hare with the difference running up to nearly $1000. There’s violence in North Minneapolis almost everyday. The University of Minnesota is unaffordable. The city’s work culture , like other American cities, is draining and energy-sapping.
Very relatable. I finished high school with ease with just sixes, went to university. Had a rough time mentally, and took 8 years to finish my bachelor/master. My employer saw something different in me than just a walking report card with a bunch of experience (a lot of companies require you to have experience before you even start working, for example through internships). The wage isnt crazy high, but im a lot happier than i'd be in a huge company where your status is determined by how much you make etc.
Thanks jesse. Glad you found an employer that saw something in you and you seem happy =) Patience is a virtue!
Thanks for the clear and well-explained video about the differences between these 2 countries regarding working environments. It is also interesting as a Dutch person to hear someone share his experience about this from a different perspective. 🙏
Thanks for the kind words. Yeah...I know it's hard to compare a big and small country...but it's been my experience so far =)
David, excellent comparative life style!!! Sharing your personal experiences it's a very good guidance to other people to take the best decision
You’re welcome and thanks for the kind words!
My last job was the first part-time one since I started working at 16 (I'm now in my 40s). I absolutely enjoyed it especially since I'm also a caretaker (mantelzorger) for my mother. So happy that working to live is possible!
Thanks Esther. That's such an important job-caretaker. Glad you are able to do that
Your videos are so spot on and so well articulated! I am European (Italy) but lived in the US for 20 years. Your assessment is very accurate and touch on cultural elements that are often unspoken.
Thanks for the kind words...and also nice to hear from a European who has lived in the US for 20 years
Brilliant video. You coverered all points in great details. Very impressive work.
Thank you!
Oh and don't forget about vakantiegeld in the Netherlands!! I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this (as an American working in the Netherlands), but was so surprised when in May/June I got a fatter paycheck than usual. Employers give employees money to use for their holiday! But it can really be used for anything, it's just called a "holiday" allowance.
Thanks Sandipa! Oh yeah that is always nice…like a US tax refund (though there is really no such thing because you can’t cheat the government!)… Some companies do include it in the salary though when accepting a job…to make it look higher…but it’s always nice psychologically to receive more money haha
@@hidavidwen If you’re lucky you get a tax refund too!
Vakantiegeld is a part of your own salary (8% from your brutto month salary).
I'm Lithuanian and have lived in Nederlands for 5 years learning the language and t.t. The balance between work and free time is outstanding, surely one day want to rid of 9-17 work but I really can't complain.
Thanks Ovidijus for sharing! The balance is really nice. Oh yeah…I’m also hoping for a shorter work week and work hours one day too :)
A lot of employers can force the employee to take vacation time. And they can set a minimum of two weeks. If you take two weeks off, and enjoy that time doing things you really like, your mental battery is recharged for a year, your productivity gets better and chances for a burn-out drop enormously. You cannot spread out your days over the year, by working three hours less every week, if you want that, you should apply for part-time. There is compensation though for parents or those who take care of family member with a handicap or high age. More family time contributes to the fact that the Netherlands have the happiest kids in the world. And adults also score high on the happiness index, together with the Nordic Countries. When we meet people again after a few years we always ask, how are you doing and how is your family? Not how your career is doing. Being happy in life is far more successful than achieving a high position.
Thanks for sharing! Oh wow, didn't know there was compensation for caregivers...that's amazing...I mean, I definitely want to take time off to spend time with my family members...especially as they age and get towards end of life. And yes to being happy in life vs. just achieving a high position =)
@@hidavidwen It is called 'Zorgverlof' and has strict conditions, but it is there when you are the main one that takes care for them.
From what I understood it is actually a legal requirement to have 14 consecutive days of not working every year and your employer can be fined if you don't take that time.
People often ask those kind of comparisons to me , now I can refer to this very clear video, thanks David!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks so much for this video, this is so clear and logical! I really enjoyed your demonstration.
Thanks and glad you enjoyed it! Happy new year !
That "zesjescultuur" is a real thing. We even have a saying about it: "Liever een zes zonder stress, dan een zeven zonder leven." Which means: "I'd rather get a six without stressing about it, than study all night long and not be able to live my life for a seven."
That's not a Dutch thing. It's a thing for certain people. But it is in no way a Dutch cultural thing.
I've never heard of this saying before, but it seems to be a recent one found on merchandise, mostly the new 'tegeltjeswijsheden' or maybe something like 'Loesje'. The future will tell if this will become an actual saying :)
@@twinturboray yes it is a dutch thing XD
Its definitely a Dutch thing. Heard it all the time
@@Forshen may i know which region you live in? Maybe its regional? Because I asked my family (and you can't get more cheese head than my family) and no one heard of it. We live centre Netherlands.
So as a Dutch person that worked for companies as Intel, IBM and Global foundries i was always surprised how slow people work yet work 60/70 hours. I actually had several meetings with colleagues that wanted me to slow down as i did "so much work" in 40 hours where they needed at least 70 hours to do the same. But learned they needed the overtime to pay for there bills (but because i learned to make decisions without paymentplans i didnt have this issue
This is actually an aspect that I kind of missed in the video: while it is true that in the Netherlands people will generally work less hours than outside the EU, as a people the Dutch have become very efficient at applying those hours effectively, often working at high intensity throughout the more limited time available. So Dutch people will generally get just as much done in their working time as other people, but are then able to stop and slow down once the work is done. Basically running sprints and needing a quick break vs. running a marathon all the time.
@@xeLJoYo So in the Netherlands people are thought to be more pro active in there role and allowed to make decisions not always in there paygrade but its accepted when having a good reason for it. In the USA you will see employees doing only there exact work as expected, and calling a meeting with there manager if something is outside that box, that manager often has to contact a other manager to give the approval and often they ask for more info before making a decision (something that makes sense over big decisions but not over small ones. its just very frustrating to work with if you are used different
@Xcepter not actual true, Burnout has multiple reasons and many employees in the USA are burned out but cant get help/rest as they might loose there job or can't afford it.
Thanks for sharing. I’ve read productivity studies that show…well…for most people, you cannot be that productive after a certain number of hours (law of diminishing marginal returns)…but there is an overtime culture in the US too I have friends and family who decide to work lots of overtime (they don’t even need it because they work in high paying professions like nursing) because they get paid A LOT of money working overtime…different mentality in the US
@@Xcepter This is a false belief, Humans can work under intense situations just fine, the importance is that those intense times are relatively short and frequently swapped for resting-time. Burnouts only really start to scale when the intense labour days start to blurr together over longer periods of time. The key difference here is that working hard for 40 hours during 5 days a week (or the 'new standard being around 36-ish hours) and going home every evening AND having the weekend off generates the required rest and self-time needed to empower those intense working days. working slower and somewhat quiter, but for longer and potentially 7 days straight doesn't. Sure, the peak is lower, but you're constantly pushing that peak without oments of rest. Another key item, being constantly actively in a working mindset generates stress. You need to have time to unwind from that also.
Wow thanks this video gave me a great insight ❤
Honestly the best review I have watched so far about the Netherlands. You got a new subie😊
Aw thanks a lot Sandy :) Means a lot to me, appreciate it
Thanks for your elaboration on the differences between working in the US and in the NL/ I have worked in both countries as a pilot. There is no good or bad, but I value the Dutch work ethics and job / healthcare security better, now that I get older. I value a good work - private life balance, choosing free time over money these days.
Thanks for sharing. I’m quite curious as you are a pilot…what are the differences being a pilot being in US vs NL??
@@hidavidwen U fly in the US in the US and fly in NL in NL.
You can't really just look at taxes and say oh in USA you earn a lot more money. For example in NL all company contribute a lot to your pension which is NOT included in salary overviews or seen as salary. Also if you live in the Netherlands you build up AOW automatic, which is together with your pension money your pension at the end. So working in NL you can retire and you have your AOW + pension which will cover you after you age 65+. In USA you have to fix your pension yourself and this of course costs a lot of money. Myself I have a great pension, building up AOW and putting money aside myself too. So at end i will have AOW + Pension + my own savings. Also, as you mentioned at the end later: in the Netherland you have great health insurance for cheap, in USA you have to pay insane money.
You make way more (2x + ) in SF vs NL. The rest of the US not as much. Knowledge workers in the US get healthcare covered, have 401K retirement account contributions by the employer, and many other benefits often. The benefits in SF and the Bay area are far better than anything in NL. Go look at some job postings in SF if you don't believe me. I personally moved from SF to NL as an engineer. I do miss the disposable income, but I value the benefits of living in NL higher.
@@joshperry2710 For sure you can earn a lot more money in the USA if you have the right profile and willing to work A LOT. But if you take into account all the benefits NL has to offer I'm not so sure what is the best "pay" at the end. For example I work as a Strategy Advisor for a 5b revenue company, but still have a 36h contract with full pay. Maybe i dont make 150-200k or so a year, but I do earn great money for my age age (32). And at the same time I dont have to see homeless everywhere on my way to work, my retirement is safe already and people around me are overall happy. Also you say SF, but the cost of living us very big there too.
@@lolzorkont In the USA it is a rat race to make a living, here they can fire you at the end of the day, you have no rights, you on your own ,all fake.
65+ is now days 67+ ore more depending on what year you are born. for me born in 1958 it means 67 and 3 months.
@@gino_58_nl24 I'm from 1990 so prob can retire at age of 70 haha, but yeah already planning for not having to work that long. Unless i'm still really enjoying my work as I am right now. I know plenty people who work longer than they ahve to.
Wow, you just earned a subscriber. The presentation is top notch and very informative.
Thanks for the kind words and support!
I love the painting on the wall behind you David! 😁
BROOOOOOD
I have heard that in Swedish, it's "lagom". It's a good attitude for life. Some of us in California (not the high-achievers) say, and mean it, "Have a nice day."
I’ve been searching for months for a good video explaining what’s it like to live or move to the Netherlands, I live in Florida pretty much my whole life and everything you’ve explain is what I’ve always hated about America since I was in school and into adulthood, I definitely vale my time and currently experiencing burnout not just from work but a way out of the U.S that fits me. I feel like the Netherlands is the right country for me.
Come on over, you're welcome here!
@@5xt Hopefully, soon. Need to do more research and prepare 😭
@@MEISAI Make sure you have a place to live before moving and also make sure you're not being scammed.
Nope, an honest advice - do NOT come over. The country became expat-hostile in last two years so much that we even elected a crazy fascist party promising to take the number of expats down along with illegal immigrants (they openly call expats rats and blame them for the housing crisis). Unlike in the US where you mostly talk about illegal immigrants, here there is so much open hate towards expats on tv, in newspapers and out in the streets. Housing is in crisis and it will eat most of your salary, in Florida you have no income taxes but here the govt will takr 50% of it. You get so little for any increase to the point that it's not worth bothering. Even as a high paid professional you will struggle here.
Thank you for the thorough and engaging video! All this was very interesting to learn and think about.
You're welcome and thanks for watching (and for the kind words)!
Thank you for sharing your experiences and insights! Very interesting to hear, especially since I've never even been to the US so everything here seems so normal and natural to me. This does sound similair to other stories I've heard from people who worked in the US for a period of time as well. It also usually comes down to the "work to live" mentality in the NL (and most of europe) versus the "live to work" mentality in the US.
You're welcome and thanks for sharing...yeah "work to live" vs. "live to work" --- depends what one is after =) Can't say one country is better than another. Depends on so many factors and each person's situation/wants/needs/dreams
What I find special is that when someone from the US asks "how are you doing", we in the Netherlands assume that someone is really interested in you and we then really tell them how we feel or what we are very concerned with at that moment (and work is usually not at the top of that). That answer can take a while, while the expected answer is something like; just fine!
What i found annoying is that people in Canada/USA their language is really polite but it doesn't look like it's coming form their heart. How are you doing? For us it's a conversation starter so i till my part and then ask the other party how are they doing? Either bad or good doesn't matter just talk about it. But in Canada/USA it's a greeting. Which is super annoying. It feels so fake.
Reminds me of a story a Ukrainian friend told me during her exchange in the US…at the supermarket, the cashier asked her “How are you?” and then she proceeded to talk about her day..and then the line started getting really long…and then the cashier actually didn’t want to hear her story (although she was polite about it)…but she was confused too (why did the cashier ask her if she didnt actually want to know how she was doing?!) But yeah “how are you” = hello in the US And most people respond “Good, and you?” And then move on with their days 😁
Back when I was living in The Netherlands healthcare was provided by the employer, was mandatory and was dependent on your income. It also covered spouse and children. Education was provided by the government and was free. In the US the insurance companies don't care about your income. It's also voluntary so it's kind of playing Russian roulette. Of course it causes stress and anxiety. Today you have a house and a couple of cars, tomorrow you may be wandering the streets behind a shopping cart. And that affects your quality of life.
Thanks for sharing-yeah healthcare in the NL is mandatory. It is affordable-€125-150 per month with a €385 deductible. Not many plans...just a few. If you want to add stuff, you pay a bit more. Quite simple actually compared to US healthcare.
Great presentation, thank you.
Thanks Vanessa!
Great video, love the Herman Brood painting in the back! I'm Dutch, my family knew him really well back in the day.
Thanks! Yeah many Dutch have also commented on Brood...his legend lives on
having also taken a significant pay cut after doing the same kind of move, and (at least seemingly) being happier, it's good to hear somebody with the same outlook, because I keep asking myself if I've made the right decision, and logically - no, I haven't, and yet it feels right.
Thanks Petr. 100% understand your feeling. It's a hard balance-logic and emotion...though I feel like the best decisions I've ever made "felt" right (gut vs. head). And no decision is forever too =) Where did you move from and to?
I'm Dutch and as you say in your video, we decide things as a group. This give a very good feeling as being part of a Team and it is way more efficient. Nobody (well no Dutch people) like to have drill sergeants telling us what to do, we do it together as a Team. Also we can make fun of our managers without being fired.
Okay good for you if your Dutch totally didn’t knew a cheese head is acting like a American rn jeez
Great summary, well done.
Thank you!
EXCELLENT COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS.. 👌👌
Thanks!
I have a lot of american colleague as one of our divisions is in san diego and i always explain the difference this way: yes the ceiling in the netherlands is lower, in part due to tax but this makes for a much higher floor. Its not just that my life is happier/healthier but also that of my neighbours. I always find it so heartbreaking to see all the homeless drug addicts in the states. Those were children once with dreams that never came true
Thanks for sharing. You have a point about the happiness that is shared around you…and it is heartbreaking for me to see the homeless in San Francisco (we are all humans)
The thing that always baffles me is that it carries over to our society as a whole, yet that same sentiment never seems to click. If others around you are happy, financially well of(enough), there’s naturally much less incentive to engage in negative or outright destructive behavior. Such as.. well criminality.
A lot of them have mental health problems
Looking at your video it only confirms to me that I’m so lucky to have always worked in The Netherlands. And I retired early due to a perfect pension plan.
Thanks for sharing. And nice to be able to retire early and live comfortably!
I'm a European living in the US, and one thing that occurs to me with the supermarket is that, despite of the many choices, I am not very happy with any of them in terms of quality many times... It is hard to realize how expensive the US actually is until you try to have good quality items. It is true, I can have lunch for prices that are not much higher than at home, but here that food will be fast food or in general something ultraprocessed, without much flavor, saturated with tons of ingredients, sauce and (always similar) cheese. If I want normal good quality food I have to pay far far more before reaching the level of the "normal" meals back at home.
Thank you for your great insight on the topic Mr. Wen. I like the Brood piece in the background. A true dutch staple in many living rooms. I'm looking forward to future videos.
Thanks for the kind words!
I'm from Belgium. My college from USA that came over to work to for a couple of weeks in Belgium told me that we work much faster and effective in less hours.
Imagine that we call the Belgiums a bit uneffective ;-)
Lol, no offense :D :D but Belgium effective? Hell no. I have lived in several countries and Belgians are by far the laziest people I've ever seen. It's usually said about southern european nations like Spain but Belgians were the worst. Poor customer service in so many places, the construction industry is very slow there, garbage everywhere in the city. I am talking especially about Brussels.
I totally agree with many of the points you've brought up here as I have found much of it to be my experience as well. It leaves me in a bit of a strange place when visiting friends and family back in the U.S. as they are still immersed in the culture of asking about jobs and tightly linking identity to work. I feel that you missed a key point in your takehome pay conversion table in that the currency conversion rate does leave a lot of the after tax values much closer than you would imagine based on the values you have presented. When living in different cities or countries I've found a lot of what makes the difference is not only culture, quality of life, and public transportation, but specifically spending power - that being how much you earn versus what your expenses and excess cash are after paying off your expenses. Housing in the Netherlands is expensive and difficult to find but somehow much less expensive than the apartments I have seen in many large cities in the U.S. although they are much easier to come by from what I understand. Ultimately though the public infrastructure and very relaxed quality of life make NL a really nice place to live, it's just a shame the weather tends to be so cloudy and rainy most of the year.
Thanks Teddy! How long have you been been abroad and what brought you to NL? Yeah housing is just stupid crazy here. Even if you have money. And people are overbidding for apartments now. Thanks for bringing up spending power too. That was a big concern for me (deciding to not go back to San Francisco and earn a lot more). But I actually feel (I don’t have anecdotal evidence) my spending power has remained the same or gone up? Well I do a lot of travel and traveling here around Europe is cheap. And I have a lot more time. I also don’t spend as much as I do in the US. And the big thing that money cannot buy is time…and the ability to take my time which I have more of in NL. And all the other things that contribute to quality of life…def not weather lol
I love your clip, David!
Thanks Naho! Hope you've been well! 😃
Great in-depth video. Thanks
Thanks and you're welcome!
There’s a small oversight on the taxes. Earning over 73k isn’t going to give you a straight 50% tax cut. The way it works is that you will fill up “scales” Say if you divide yearly pay in 50, 100 and 150k, paying 10, 20, and 50, for those respectively and anything under 50k is free of taxes If you make 160k a year you will first fill up the 50k scale, and pay 10% for that, then with the remaining money you’ll fill up the 100k scale and pay 20%, the same goes for the 150k scale. In the end the only part of your money that’s going to get the 50% tax is the remaining 10k after you’ve filled all the scales, and you’d essentially get 50k on which you didn’t even pay any taxes, along with the fact that a lot of essential living things are retracted from your “taxable income” which would mean that you would pay a lot less to taxes than was shown, great video otherwise though
Thanks for sharing about progressive tax rates, important to note!
"I work to live. But I don't live to work". That's been one of my rules for my whole life. I don't mind working overtime, but there is more to life than just working. And not having just Sunday off as it seems to me what's quite usual in the States. Happy to be Dutch.
I have lived in the Netherlands, Groningen and I understand you. You have a great content!
Thanks Janis! I really appreciate it 🙏
awesome video. thanks for sharing. Your channel is inspiring me on my KZhead journey
Another reason the Dutch don't really work overtime much, is that overtime is heavily taxed. So unless there's some sort of time-for-time arrangement, Dutch people are hesitant to do overtime.
Not true. Over time is evenly taxed as your normal hours. The only catch here is when you earn around 68,5 thousand Euro's a year. It could be that, with your overtime, you earn more than that limit and be put into the higher tax bracket. That way you're taxed more. When you earn less (including your overtime) than that amount, it won't make a difference. This also applies to when you earn more (excluding overtime) than 68,5 thousand Euro's. Because earning more money with overtime doesn't change your tax bracket, you're already in the highest one.
Indeed, not true. Overtime is taxed against the average rate applicable to the employee for that year. It looks like higher taxation as in your monthly salary the monthly parts of the tax exemptions are already included and are not applicable on overtime paid out. As said, if your salary is just below € 73k you can face extra tax as the average bracket then increases to. 49.5%.
i used to get paid but now i convert my overtime to holiday hours balance , I just went 3 weeks travel to Brazil and I still have 250 hours in my holiday balance, i absolutly love it
Thanks for sharing. From the NL government website (business.gov.nl/running-your-business/staff/health-and-safety-at-work/working-hours-act/): "Overtime hours count towards the statutory maximum hours your employee can work for you, which is 12 hours per day or 60 hours per week. The Act does not state how much extra pay your employee must receive for overtime. You can make your own arrangements for this in your terms of employment, or there might be overtime provisions in your CAO." I read elsewhere, overtime can be 50-100% of your normal working hours pay but depends on your contract/collective labour agreement But yeah, you don't get paid a lot more for working overtime! And I believe the law says 60 hours max per week
@@hidavidwen by my own experience, overtime for me was not worth at all, mainly because I still have the rulling benefit and overtime was taxing 100% , that is why I decided to always convert it in holiday bank hours
Something I like to add about Dutch healthcare is that if you can't afford it i.e. you make under a certain amount per year, then you get money from the government to pay for it.
Great comparative and informative video. I recently went to Netherland and love their laid back culture as everybody is out in the evening for entertaining and they don't have to wait for the weekends like in US.
Thanks! Glad to hear you seemed to have had a nice time. Yeah, it's quite laid back here...took me some time to get used to
Great work, David! My girlfriend and I are seriously considering a move to Amsterdam in the next few months and this was incredibly informative.
Aw glad to hear and best of luck! It’ll be spring in a few months
Great video that explains culture,social interaction and mentality in NLs. There’s one thing that you might forget; ambition is not lacking in Dutch culture but it is more about a personal goal, not for showing of or someone else’s perception… or just having more offspring surviving (which might be the evolutionary reason to be ambitious)
Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I've learned Dutch people are ambitious about their personal lives...well it's not just about professional life.
one thing that is often overlooked about working in Europe is that you have the ability to work as an independent contractor, which makes you opt out of paying (and benefiting from) a lot of the social premiums that are otherwise automatically incorporated in a salaried job. this will make your life a lot more like an American one, while still living in Europe. the difference in hourly rate can be quite substantial (because employers take less of a risk hiring you): for Dutch software developers it can be as much as a 2-3x difference in favor of contract work.
Sounds like if it’s financially smart to be a contractor if you can :)
The more I learn about Dutch culture, the more I realize that I am Dutch at heart.
Casually flexing with a Herman Brood in the background. Very nice piece!!
Haha thanks Bas...I've gotten a lot of compliments for it =)
As an international student and Dutch person the grade being based on out of 10 instead of 7, A's or 5 was always more relaxing for me. (From my experiance) This makes it easy to pass or get the 60% but it makes it more difficult to get the 100% or higher grades. I remember one of our teachers explaining some formula that shows the math but I don't recall how it exactly worked.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I'm almost done with my Master's in NL, but a fun fact: you also get paid sick leave for burnouts when you do student jobs. This may depend where you do your job. But when I worked at BP besides university, it was too much (the bachelor I did was really busy) and I had to stop working and studying for a year. I got 100% of my salary for the entire year. Then covid came and I didn't get a new contract because of the lockdown. But yeah, it really surprised me that I got that when I only worked 8-12 hours per week.
WOW-you can get burnout sick leave for student jobs?! I am mindblown. In a good way. I mean, student life can be stressful. I hope you are doing a lot better now and thanks for sharing, Dominic 🙏
@@hidavidwen when you are on a contract with a company a job is a job. If you get into the "ziektewet" you will continue to get paid, even though it's part time or when you're student.
Hi David, didn’t know you had a KZhead channel, very interesting video 😊 Also, thanks a lot for those session on values and Ikigai back then. They really helped me out in the long run!
Hey Duncan! Pleasant and nice surprise to see you here, it’s a small world 😄 But yeah I do and seems like you have one as well. Glad to hear those sessions have resonated with you. I hope you’ve been doing well! 🙌
love the painting!!! brood my man!
Brood!!
In regards to the 6's culture I'm sensing some misunderstanding. The Dutch highschool system is devided into different levels/types. Kids are almost sorted by certain grades before going to highschool. These differences in education between USA and The Netherlands makes a direct translation for grades faulty. Exams and other grading moments are tailered to the difference in these levels/types. For example the vmbo, havo and vwo exams in the subject english graduation exams. Getting a passing grade of a 6 would mean a difference in understanding the subject english for the student getting these grades. The same translates to higher education like university. The entry requirements for University education are having certain highschool education or other allowed qualifications. This makes the grading reflect those standards and what it excepts of the students. A passing grade of a 6 in The Netherlands means that for the level of the education you are following the understanding of the subject for the student is adequate to be passing the course. The 6's culture isn't necessary being oke with having a C-grade. It's understanding that having a C-grade in the level of education is oke.
Thanks for sharing. I think it goes to show the differences in education systems between US and NL too. Getting average grades in the US…well it doesn’t help
Netherlands: Focus on your hobbies, Life, Family and friend. You'll have enough for everything USA: Focus on your job, Objective and career. You'll never have enough for anything.
success is not how much you earn but how you develop as a human being
Thanks for sharing this!
I liked the information you shared! Your take and view point on the U.S.A. was very correct and open and fair! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the kind words :)
not to mention about the other types of leaves we have in the netherlands: elder care leave, birth leave (now even more extensive for the partner), berievement leave, study leave, child care leave, sabbatical leave, and the list goes on for everything you can think of.
The list does go on but you're right Kingson...a lot of other benefits that I'm still learning a lot about!
I worked as a secreatary at a Dutch company's research and development department where they manufactured expansion vessels for heating systems. The engineers had developed a vessel that automaticly vented and refilled the system with water but wasn't yet on the market. One day when we having lunch I asked the engineers what would happen if the house owner was on let's say winter holliday, and the water tube would freeze and break. They stared at me in total disbelieve coz that chance hadn't crossed their minds. The result of course being that water would be keep flowing out, turning the house into a waterpool. Which would cost the company lots of money one or more court cases, not to mention really bad publicity for he firm. They not just put a water meter on the vessel but my manager gave me a bonus for that thought too as well as a consirable raise. What i mean to say is that I was the less tech savvy, so more or less the lowest of the picking order of the lot and yet I was taken that seriously and above all was given all credit for my remark.
wow, inspiring. Smart lady
I did my Master's degree in the US and doctorate in the Netherlands. I agree with you on many points.
Thanks!