This Sea Reptile could be the Biggest EVER | Ichthyotitan
REFERENCES:
journals.plos.org/plosone/art...
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www.cell.com/current-biology/...
www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...
www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/...
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The Lilstock monster, now known as Ichthyotitan severnensis, was a Shastasaurid ichthyosaur from the Late Triassic period, and perhaps the biggest marine reptile currently known, reaching an estimated length of 25 metres. What's more, is that current fossil remains may not even represent fully-grown individuals!
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I’d like to note that the largest known (so far) raptorial shastasaurids like Himalayasaurus and Shonisaurus seem to have topped out at 15m or so; we have no idea what Shastasaurus or Ichthyotitan ate. So while the idea of a 20+m macroraptorial ichthyosaur (possibly the largest apex predator of all time) is entertaining and tantalizing, it’s not exactly well-supported at the moment. Of course, even something like Himalayasaurus is at minimum the largest Mesozoic apex predator.
Yeah, and I didn’t want to make any concrete claims about the diets of Shastasaurus and Ichthyotitan. But I thought it was definitely worth pointing out the trend of Shastasaurids as a group being more raptorial than initially believed.
@@BugsandBiology Yeah that’s a good thing to point out, especially given how badly ichthyosaurs have been overlooked in the past as macroraptorial predators, but let’s not go TOO overboard here. It’s already noteworthy enough that some Triassic ichthyosaurs were the most powerful predators of the entire Mesozoic (and among the most powerful ever)-no hyperbole needed.
@@bkjeong4302 The first reports compare it to an orca but this seems like a generalisation applied to all ichthyosaurs. The early depictions and reconstructions of its skull remind more of a giant Tursiops than a giant orca, surely carnivore but the sheer absence of large teeth in regions otherwise rich in ichthyosaurs teeth is a bit concerning. Not sure it qualifies as a giant version of Thalattoarchon or Himalayasaurus yet.
Giant triassic ichthyosaurs are quickly becoming some of my favourite prehistoric animals
They’re awesome for sure. I found reading about them to be a very easy rabbit hole to get sucked into. Especially when it comes to the extremely fragmentary remains that could suggest almost incomprehensibly big animals.
@@BugsandBiology Indeed. I quite enjoyed Vividens video on the topic, and I'm looking forward to this one.
Well done. Very informative, and enjoyable. I'm looking forward to more.
Thanks!
good vid . watched this morning with my coffee 🥸
Nothing starts the day like hearing a nerd talk about ichthyosaurs, huh?
@@BugsandBiology hahahah yessir
Great vid! I don’t know a lot about dinosaurs as bugs are my main thing - but still very interesting!
ichthyosaurs are not dinosaurs tho
@@bhairammozumder7705 As you can see I don’t know a lot about them 😂
@@bhairammozumder7705 To be fair I did briefly talk about dinosaurs in this video too.
Thanks, as always, for your great videos. I have a nice row with someone about the brown recluse spider. People spreading fear about this poor little bugger, saying it is the deadliest spider in the whole USA. As a Dutchy, I don't really care much for the spiders in the USA as in being scary. But people there want to burn the whole town because of this tiny spider. It killed at least a thousand people at the moment. My guess is by scaring them from a picture that is a thousand times their real size. Where I want to go is this: Can you make or link a good video about this spider and other spiders from the USA that are wrongfully convicted? Since people don't take my degree as a biologist very seriously, I hope a fellow biologist will help my case. Plus, I love the huge sense of humor you put in your videos. I love the sarcasm and irony so much! And I think it is time for a little lighthearted series of jokes about the brown recluse (and other wrongfully convicted buggers).
Are you gonna talk about Fragmentary Aust colossus?😅 since we are on the Topic?
It’s very much a possibility for a future video, but I figured I’d be going on too much of a tangent here. Plus, the Aust remains are extremely fragmentary and there’s not much info about them, at least that I could find. Perhaps I’ll make a video discussing multiple giant Triassic ichthyosaurs at some point, and the Aust Colossus will definitely get a mention there.
Another great video!! Shame the spider didn’t return, but amazing nonetheless. Icthyosaurs are super underrated
Was kind of in a hurry with this video. I’d already delayed working on it by a couple days, and videos about new discoveries are something I want to upload quickly so I don’t miss the hype train.
@@BugsandBiology makes sense :)
Yes those were the “Good old days” of species I suppose. In modern times I feel privileged living in Earths history at the same time with Earths biggest creature ever, thé Balaenoptera musculus aka the Blue Whale! 🐋
We've discovered lots of biggest evers lately
Yeah, namely Perucetus colossus. Admittedly Perucetus mostly rode a media hype wave, with its initial size estimates having a huge variance, and media (predictably) focusing solely on the absolute upper end of that range. Don’t think anyone was surprised that it soon got downsized.
A lot of them are somewhat uncertain, like Giganotosaurus. I'm afraid quite a few of these might end up in a Dunkleosteus situation
I think Giganotosaurus is more concrete, because while it’s only known from a couple specimens, one of them is fairly complete, leaving little ambiguity in regards to overall size. So I can’t really see its size estimates changing too radically any time soon.
@@BugsandBiology not only Perucetus, another Ichthyosaur was debuted as the biggest not too long ago, before Perucetus
THE BONES AAAA
Small note here: an EFS has never been found in any ichthyosaur, even in specimens which have clearly reached asymptotic growth. So no, we do not know anything about its skeletal maturity. Second: the high vascularity is normal for all stages of ichthyosaur ontogeny. So we do not know anything about it’s growth unfortunately. Slight flaw in the paper. Lastly, I worry about a future taxonomic clusterfuck, surangulars do not have many characteristics and I am not convinced it is that easy to tell genera apart based on them, especially closely related species. Overall I am mildly annoyed by this paper.
Evidence?
When ive first heard of these things, i thought they were some sorta hybrid crocodile fish
There's some cetacean in there too
This is amazing but going this way I think we will find something bigger
The Aust Cliff specimens could potentially represent something much bigger when scaled to the same proportions. But I didn’t want to go off on too much of a tangent, plus the remains are extremely fragmentary.
The lack of arachnids on your face frightens me.
Haha, knew I’d get comments about that. I just wanted to get this video done before the “new species” hype died down, so I didn’t bother fussing around with the spider.
Are you gonna check out tierzoos "are centipedes OP?"
I have. Can’t say I liked it.
I too was heartbroken to learn Liopleurodon wasn't 80 feet long. 😔 I would love to see Nigel Marvin get back in the water with some giant ichthyosaurs. (And do a revamped megalodon episode that includes the leviatitan!)
Honestly the Triassic (or the Norian specifically) would get bumped all the way up the second place with Himalayasaurus alone. The Late Miocene would probably take the top spot, though, because it combines having really large marine predators AND having a lot of different marine predators.
Chased by Sea Monsters remains the only show I’ve seen with a decent portrayal of megalodon. Even if it was basically an oversized great white.
@@BugsandBiology Honestly that scene is one of the best in the entire Trilogy of Life for so many reasons.
@@bkjeong4302 I too think about what a revised list of Deadly Seas would look like if we factor in: 1) titanic Ichthyosaurs, 2) smaller Liopleurodons, and 3) Leviatitan. 😁
@@seanledden4397 Don’t forget that eugeneodontids were also pretty fearsome marine apex predators during the Carboniferous and Permian, and that we have some smaller (read “orca-sized or slightly larger”) raptorial ichthyosaurs from the Jurassic and Early Cretaceous. I’d go for ten seas instead of seven: 10) Carboniferous (Edestus, and Rhizodus if you end up in freshwater) 9) End-Devonian (Dunk; yes it’s been downsized a lot, but its jaws are the same, and it’s also MUCH faster than previously assumed) 8) Permian (Helicoprion and maybe Parahelicoprion depending on when the episode is set) 7) Early Jurassic (Temnodontosaurus) 6) Late Eocene (Basilosaurus, raptorial pelagic basilosaurids like Cynthiacetus, and Otodus sokolovi; if Perucetus turns out to be raptorial this one might go all the way up to #4) 5) End-Jurassic Tethys (Pliosaurus, thalattosuchians and Grendelius) 4) Early Cretaceous, the polar Eromanga Sea (Kronosaurus, “Platypterygius” australis, Cardabiodon) 3) Late Cretaceous Western Interior Seaway (enough said) 2) Late Triassic (Norian) Panthalassa (Himalayasaurus, maybe Shastasaurus depending on what its diet turns out to be) 1) Late Miocene, Pisco Formation (Meg, Livy, and a crapton of other sharks and raptorial cetaceans)
*insert Chased by Sea Monsters theme
Half-considered putting the opening theme over the moment where I quoted the show’s dialogue. But didn’t want to deal with potential copyright issues. Though I had no problems using footage from the show, so maybe I could’ve gotten away with a piece of the soundtrack too.
@@BugsandBiology the entire soundtrack is up on KZhead. I don’t think it’s copyrighted as it’s never been released officially. Heck even the show itself is free to watch here.
@@BugsandBiology YT didn't recognize a single Walking With tune on my homage video, so it's probably fine. Fantastic video by the way!
@@PaleoEditsThat’s good to know! I’ve had copyright issues with footage from the main trilogy, and presumed the same would apply for the soundtrack. And glad you enjoyed the video!
Awwww no! I disagree with your that with other videos?
Sorry, what do you disagree with?
Fuck yeah I didn’t know ichthyosaurs got that big,let alone practice predation!!
When I was a kid, I always saw ichthyosaurs as the least “cool” out of the major marine reptile groups. Oh how the times have changed.
@@BugsandBiology I always thought it was a shame that ichthyosaurs never produced any dedicated macropredators (and this is coming from a guy who knew about Shonisaurus hitting 15m growing up). If only I knew…. Though it should be said that even as the Triassic giants are starting to get some attention, the fact ichthyosaurs had one last good run and wave of diversification as large predators (and were a lot more successful in general than once assumed) during their final Early Cretaceous days is somehow even less appreciated. The sad thing about ichthyosaurs is that there’re perhaps the only group of prehistoric megafauna where the smaller and less obviously impressive members of the clade are the iconic and famous members that overshadow the other, much larger and often much more formidable forms.
Yeah it’s very strange isn’t it? Normally, it’s the biggest species that are the most famous out of any group. The most well-known mosasaurs are the giants. The most well-known pliosaurs are the giants. Yet for ichthyosaurs, the only ones that came close to being “mainstream” were small genera like Ichthyosaurus and Ophthalmosaurus.
@@BugsandBiology It’s even stranger considering that Temnodontosaurus (which, while not at the level of the Triassic giants, was still something like 10m long and raptorial even excluding fragmentary specimens) has been known for about as long as the much smaller and more famous ichthyosaurs, yet never became iconic or well-known, and thus never managed to change the popular (and even academic) misperception of ichthyosaurs as small, small-prey specialists. In fact it was rarely depicted as the raptorial predator it was until the last 6-7 years or so.