Is the Porsche 911 S/T $100k Better Than the GT3 Touring? - TheSmokingTIre
Enjoy 10% off 6” and 8.5” MOVA Globes with code SMOKINGTIRE. Shop now on bit.ly/TSTMOVAGlobes
The Porsche 911 S/T is possibly the best driver's car of the modern era; it's a car that many, many automotive journalists are calling "best ever." But it's a full $100k (even more with markups) more than the GT3 Touring, to which it's closely related. Can you feel the difference between the two and does that justify the price point? Matt goes back to back in the new S/T and GT3 Touring to find out!
Want more 911 S/T vs GT3 Touring? Here's 3,000 words of it at Road & Track!
www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/...
Zack’s deep dive on what and why the S/T is: • Expensive Parts Bin or...
Porsche provided the 911 S/T, insurance, and a tank of fuel for this review.
Use Off The Record! and ALWAYS fight your tickets! Enter code TSTPOD for a 10% discount on your first case on the Off The Record app, or go to www.offtherecord.com/TST
Want to watch the live stream, get ad-free podcasts, or exclusive podcasts? Join our Patreon: / thesmokingtirepodcast
Follow us!
/ thesmokingtire
/ therealzackklapman
Check out our PODCAST! Over 100,000 listeners and counting!
KZhead: / thesmokingtirepodcast
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4nl2Rna...
Apple podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Google Podcasts: podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0...
NEW SHIRTS!
www.blipshift.com/tst
Is the Porsche 911 S/T $100k Better Than the GT3 Touring? - TheSmokingTIre
#porsche911ST
#911ST
It's a hard job, picking between top of the line Porsches, but somebody's got to do it.
🤣
lol gt3 or gt3 rs is way to go
Thank you Porsche for still building a stick shift, seriously. Both incredible cars
They should have stuck with the 1100cc flat four as well
and manual windows
They really trolled 911r owners with that one
And steel rims
@@zyoungson215Sometimes, marketing department cannot foresee the popularity for cars like the 911 R.
This is the comparison we all wanted. Still bummed they didn't change suspension in the Touring like they did in the previous gen. Oh well, can't afford either...
it's nonsensical to call it a touring but have suspension like that
it's a little speculation I keep making that the S/T was just a sneaky way to fund development am alternate type suspension in the 992.2 GT3 Touring much like the 991.1 911 R was the path to the 6 speed manual for 911 GT3 cars generations 991.2 onwards
Was there a change to the 991.2 Touring suspension vs. the GT3? I had no idea! any sources?
@@xGabicca No, there was no change in suspension in the 991.2 GT3 touring compared to the GT3 it was based on. This person is misinformed...
@@TheImperfectGuypossibly, but the 992.2 is going to have a digital dash which essentially ruins it imo
the $100k price difference is only because it is limited/collectible. Just like the 911 R, probably not "worth" the price difference but that won't stop us all from wanting one.
Well, no car is really worth over 100k, let alone being 100k more expensive just because it's limited. But it's what it is. They are still timeless beauties.
@@MrZane-bl8qm No Zonda/Koeniggseg/Bugatti is worth more than 100K?
Standard carbon buckets + standard PCCBs + standard mag wheels = $40k+ on top of a standard GT3. That doesn’t include the bespoke clutch and single mass flywheel, suspension tuning, etc. certainly shrinks that gap quite a bit
It might be 100k more expensive, but the actual cost of ownership is probably still the same. Just have to spend more money upfront
@@MrZane-bl8qm Bro has no idea of Porsche fan base.
That really is the perfect spec GT3 Touring! Green over brown with yellow calipers, chefs kiss
Imagine this: I was designing one on the site, and had just finished when I found this video. They were identical, save the yellow calipers. Great taste.
What color is that?
"good soup" @@dlamb4prez
not sure. its not British racing green (I suppose), but that is just as good @@a004
@@a004Oak Green Metallic
This video format works really well - Doesn't look like that much more production than a one-take, but the narrative through line looks really well thought out, and there are enough fly-bys added in post to show off the car. I'd say it's about 98% of the effect of those highly produces pieces you and Zack were doing last year. I hope it's more like 60% of the work so you guys don't get burnt out.
Your wrist hardware is matching the exterior colorway of the touring, nice touch, car guy dorkiness at its best
Your explanation of trade-off with stiffness/sharpness VS vertical damping is spot on. I have a 718 GT4 with MCS 2-way remotes and in playing with the compression & rebound settings, you can feel that trade off in one direction or the other. So, for those who want the ST's suppleness but can't get or afford an ST, do not fret. Get yourself what ever version you want and swap out the suspension for 2 or 3 way MCS or KW set-up and you can have the best of both worlds. I switch mine up depending on what I plan on doing with the car and even though it is a manual process, it takes a few mins to turn a few knobs. I have a few different profiles that I switch between.
I was thinking your exact point and fit a lightened fly wheel and shorted final drive for under 15k and I bet you wouldn't be far behind the experience you'd have in the S/T. 100k is a lot of money for the extras you get. I believe all the S/T's have already been sold, probably to collectors ( who won't drive them) or salesman so they can sell them on for Mega bucks😢
And it won’t cost you over $100k 😂
someone's already ordered S/T clutch and flywheel. The part numbers are already out
No one I can find makes a shortened gear set for the GT3
@@porscherain demann?
Man, the dream is owning any GT product from Porsche. Amazing ❤
Extremely useful comparison. Peak torque at over 6k and a lightweight flywheel makes this a poor choice for real world driving but a great choice for youtube videos
Great review Matt. You are one of the best at communicating how a car feels and drives! Thank you for this great comparison.
Thanks Matt! Amazing review, so in depth & specific.
What a machine. And something about the chrome trim just looks so classy. Love the Bamboo GS, btw.
Was waiting for this one! Great review as always👍
Dear Matt, after delivery I drove my touring and I instantly felt that the rear suspension wasn't good as the front; rebound and high speed damping made the car jumpy after several bumps. For a moment I regretted the car. I contacted my specialist on suspension technic, madeno Racing, and he advised me ohlins ttx dampers on every corner. The oem system is blocked with a cancellation kit. I have to go under the car to change suspension but now irs absolutely the best handling car. Oem dampers where terrible, specially on open roads. Thanks for your tests
That video was delightful. Matt, you were the perfect man for the job of translating the comparison of these 2 amazing machines.
We’ve been waiting for this video for over a year, and you overdelivered Matt. You guys are awesome!! Cheers from Spain
incredible video Matt the review exceeded my expectations I had for this video you are best auto journalist out there!
Also love the video, channel, and so thank you very much for all the wonderful content!
Excellent review! Thank you!
Great review Sir !! Now were waiting for th ST vs R report 😋
Now this is the video I wanted... Great Work Zach and Matt!
great review, thank you for showing us these cars at the same time.
loved the pacing of this video great work yall
Great review I was just cross shopping these two for my next winter beater.
Only Porsche can swing removing features and charging more money for it.
Great video, thanks Matt!
Regarding the rpm fall ----> did you ever try "no lift shift"?😉The manual GT3 has a special mode for you, to stay on full throttle while shifting up. It holds the rpm in perfect rpm for the next higher gear. If you try it out, please make a video of that.
It works at any throttle position or RPM which is pretty cool. It makes a cool noise between shifts as well.
If you notice in the video at the 10:35 point, looks like he's utilizing the paddle shifters. As much as I love the shifter look and feel, I would be using the paddle shift often as possible.
@@speedracer8996 This car doesnt have paddle shifters its Manual only.
@@speedracer8996 Both cars are manual. The ST in the clip you're referring to is sold ONLY as a manual.
Same question here. Because that flat shift is my best ever experience!
The lightweight clutch of the Carrera GT, which I was told by one of the only, if not THE only, Porsche master mechanics to ever work on an S/T clutch (someone in the press already blew the clutch on the black S/T in this very video) is extremely similar to the S/T clutch; which is $34K on Suncoast Parts. Respectfully, Matt, It doesn’t make sense to me to make a comparison with a hypothetical $40K lightweighting package, when it would easily cost that entire sum just for the clutch, which is only one small part of what makes the S/T so special. The massive reduction of rotating mass (in total 85lbs including the PCCBs) and overall lightweighting using CFRP nearly everywhere, is frickin expensive $$ and there’s no cheap substitutions to get such a light and blippable/revvy car. Considering that the next closest high revving NA, ultra lightweight sports car with a manual transmission is the $2M+ Gordon Murray T33, and that $100K extra (+ crazy $ADM), in my opinion, pales in comparison.
The Gordon Murray car is TRULY lightweight. Nearly 1000lbs lighter than a GT3. This S/T is honestly faux light weight. A GT3 touring with a 16gal fuel tank weighs the same as the S/T with a long range fuel tank
bro u r “all in” on these S/T posts … can I assume u have allocation coming?
@@brianhimmelman420 hahah I do, and it’s also my dream car
@@MrOneMOA that’s absolutely true that the T33 & T50 are on another level, but their price reflects that. Lightweight is expensive.
@@MrOneMOA I don’t think 3056 pounds can be called faux lightweight though, to be fair, it’s only 192 pounds more than a BRZ, with 290 more horsepower, and a good chunk of that weight reduction was from rotating mass/parts, which has a multiplicative or even exponential effect on response, blippability, and acceleration
Great video as always! Would love to get behind the wheel either car some day!
Great Review ( as always).. I have the GT3 Touring and love it! We live here in Utah with some of the best driving roads in the country ( from mountain passes, canyons and open desert, which is where the Touring excels
Great video. Btw what kind of watch is this? Grand Seiko?
This is a video I have very much been looking forward to drop. I’ve been dying to see what your opinion was on this topic
thanks for this video
great review Matt. whether this is pertinent, but I have GT4RS, which I absolutely love. I drive my car frequently - 8300kms on the clock. Over the Christmas holiday period, I did a big road trip - Sydney to Melbourne, back to Sydney. I travelled almost 2400kms (1500miles), following the very scenic and winding coast road. The harder I pushed, the bigger my grin became. The roads were almost empty, so I pushed hard, resisting the urge to brake… I had the best time ever. Every car i have previously owned, was a manual, inc my prior car the 981 GT4, however I now truly understand the PDK, and I love it. Yes it was very loud inside (averaged 94db’s), but that’s why this car is so special. To me its the perfect tourer, however my question to you is: How do you think it compares to the GT3 Touring, and the S/T ? Please reply… thanks again Matt cheers Ewan - Sydney Australia
Watch for hearing damage!
nice to have the old format back.
Comfort seats in the Touring are a good call, definitely makes it more usable day to day than the silly buckets.
Awesome video! It’d be great to see a comparison with the Porsche 911 T vs Porsche GT3 touring.
Exellent review I would love to be behind the wheels of this two cars !!
Great content as always! So as a P car novice that dreams of a Touring, where would the Turbo Lightweight fall in line with these? Is the GTS the best bang for buck or not even in this discussion?
The best Porsche is the most expensive one you can buy
The touring is to the gt3 as the st is to the 3rs. Thats the point, I don't understand how people don't get porsche by now. The recipe doesn't change, when the new gt2rs comes out they're inevitably be a boosted or hybrid drivetrain touring model as well that will be more then both of these. They fill out their model range so there's something for everyone, just because some guy in the comments is broke doesn't mean everyone else is
Wow. What a perfect spec for a GT3 Touring.
Absolutely stellar review, Matt! 🌟 It's fascinating to see how passionate everyone is about the nuances of these models.
"Nobody does weight reduction like Porsche"? What a load of garbage. Lotus/Atom/Caterham/McLaren all way lighter than this huge barge.
@@EvoraGT430 come on. Maybe lotus, McLaren yeah but it will be in the shop all the time. Atom, caterham are specialty cars and not really in the same category. Sure the S/T is great but it’s unobtanium. Porsche can make a special anything and it will sell. Years of printing money have made a bunch of rich folks who scoop up everything. The good thing though is Porsche has some great cars that are absurdly cheaper that provide that Porsche experience.
They're not really, its mainly marketing. Long term owners are not fooled by this stuff. Given the talking point is still the engine which is largely the same as that found in 991.2 GT3 and the weight reduction commentary is priceless.
very good review . Thanks !
Tremendous video Guys!! Thank you. Really like the outfit Matt! Can't wait too see the Bentley turbo R video
@thesmokingtire what's your favorite road? been loving yerba buena lately
Great video!
One of the best reviews in long time🎉
Great review as always…. The quality of b-roll can be improved with drone shots, other cars shooting you from front and back. But like your no nonsense cut to the chase approach. Can you tell me which road this is?
The sound!!! My goodness the sound the S/T makes, that's the dream. Even the chattering, which I kinda like
One of the best videos on this channel
Beautiful car, great footage too!
This is the content we are here for!!
The way you explain stuff, it’s like anyone who has never driven either, can understand exactly what you are saying. You are a cars voice Mr Matt. I have a 991.2 GTS and never driven a gt product, but I feel when I do, it will be as you describe
Engineering excellence. Nobody does it better. Stunning cars.
Great video
Can find any Smoking tire gear on your website. Love that ski cap. LFG!
Great review Matt! I want a GT3 (any gen, really) so bad.
lil mistype in the vid title, great clip guys, thanks again !!
I get the clattery clutch thing as I've driven a Carrera GT and the clatter on that clutch was off the hook. Great comparison.
Waiting for Matt's 2005 nsx review!
Mega Matt. What I've been waiting for, on a car I'll sadly never drive or own. But we can dream.
Great comparison. I’ll keep my manual 992 GT3 MR for now!
Dealer called wanting to buy my Touring for $240K asking for $150K to get to lease an ST for one year. No thanks.
Great video, Matt. The comparison is sorta moot point, as the S/T is basically unobtainable, even to those with deep pockets. I'd wait until some of the S/T tech trickles down to the 992.2 GT3T.
Great review, thanks! Any idea how many S/T are made in comparison to the "standard" Touring?
They’re going to make 1,963 of them.
@@zackklapman3569 Thanks!
Great video, nice to see someone hauling ass in a GT car. Flying through those canyons.
As i sit here on Friday 2nd in the south coast of the UK eating fish & chips I thoroughly enjoyed this piece on two of the very finest Porsches anyone cant buy 😢 Oh to be on the Porsche preferred client list😊. Stumbled across your channel by random chance & glad I did😊.
Great comparison
Great review, full stop
Mat, what is that watch you are sporting in this video? Love the green face
This is as good as a review can be done! Awesome!!!!! ah well the ST is a great car too which I probably never will even see on the road.
Super keen for a real world comparison between Spyder RS and your Spyder Matt.
Just to put the weight of the car in context: It's as light as a C6 Z06 (Z07) ;).
Thing about the ST is that it's not just better but limited. I think because of that prices will really get high on this one after a few years. Everybody loves the ST and many said in the reviews that it's the best Porsche ever built which makes it even more worthy. I myself wouldn't want to have a manual stick shifting on a car that's made for the sharp corners on a really curvy road. Shift Paddles make much more sense for me to be able to ALWAYS steer as good as possible! Great cars. Great review. Makes even fun while watching!
Don’t knock it till you try it! A lot of people love them for VERY GOOD Reasons! ✌️
Nova Globes are cool Bought one in Washington a few years ago sits in my jitchen in the UK, still spinning 👍
i hope these features carry over to 992.2 gt3 touring (if it comes) sound deadening delete, light flywheel & clutch, shortened gear ratio (on manual) should be enough. i would still like to keep rear steer for daily use
I wouldn’t be surprised. Porsche cashes in on the $$$ from the clients who want a numbered car; then deliver a more “readily available” version next refresh.
This is the Porsche playbook. Would be surprised if this didn’t happen.
The softened suspension tuning will carry over to the 992.2 Touring, the lightened clutch and single mass flywheel will not. Shorter gearing tbd
@@undergroundoutlaw411 S/T boys about to learn about the 911R experience
@@Boomtowndogs 911R still priced up there. It's basically the same concept they took 991 and introduced manual with light single flywheel and that was 911 examples.
I am working in Automotive and had the opportunity to drive both cars last year. I’ve driven a lot of 911 for work and also use to drive and collect Porsches since almost 30 years now. My résumé is that there’s no relevant difference between the two models. It’s like with most of the limited edition cars of Porsche. They just change a few parts but it’s actually more about to create a special edition car than building a model that stands alone. I still remember how thrilling it was to drive a 993 RS or GT2.. These were special cars. But I also think it was the pinnacle of the automobile history.
Great review. I have a GT3 Touring and the only complaint I have is that is is loud inside the cabin. So much more „racing“ than „touring“. If the S/T has even less sound deadening than that would be an issue. I also am fortunate enough to have a 997 GT3 RS 4.0 - and that car is still the best Porsche GT car - imho.
Aren’t u awesome
6:52 Patrick Dempsey's stunt double out joyriding in the 911 again LOL
That’s a nice Grand Seiko you got there Matt. 👍🏽
great car but beyond the reach of most. I really like what Porsche does with the Cayman as an alternative
It’s even crazier when you realize people will pay $75k over sticker to get a highly optioned PTS GT3t, so that $225k car is really selling for $300k. Personally, if I’m spending $300k I’m going to be cross shopping some serious competition. I just don’t get the desire for these cars at this price, and I own two Porsches, one was purchased new last year. 992 GT3 are just not worth it to me. The S/T are basically unobtanium, people paying $150k over sticker. Dealers making a killing tho.
@@joeracer302 I totally agree! This to me is why my 718 GT4 was such a great value proposition. Great package for the money (esp since i got mine at MSRP) when i ordered it
@@joeracer302 Its scalpers and "investor-collectors" ruinig it and taking these away from majority of of car people who have higher medium class income, and the higher you go the less people who are true car people that you will find. So even the more fortunate petrol heads get screwed by this.
@@joeracer302you're talking about maniacally rich P fans who get special editions just to dunk on their other crazy rich P car fan friends I love Porsche. Just met a couple people like the above mentioned recently 😂
Matt, 911 sport classic or either one of these?
Great review! Most of those globes are sold out, too.
So ~$40k option worth of significant nuance. You combine that with the collectible status, and the insane market for the GT cars and $100k sound appropriate. Jason Cammisa has talked at length at how Porsche has messed up the MSRP on the GT cars and how NA dealers are profiting off that mistake instead of it benefiting Porsche’s GT team’s development budget. I think he makes a good point, even if it just furthers the unobtainable status of these cars at least the money goes to the correct place.
Jeff has a great collection of cars.
Let me just drop this thought. If you want a 911 to actually do Touring trips, what about not choosing a GT division 911? I understand the niche that the GT3 Touring is there to fill, but if you want a more comfortable 911 there are a lot of (very) good alternatives. You don't need to go to a limited edition S/T. It's probably an Ethos created by the internet, and the opinions that mass media create. Yes for me, a car enthusiasts, GT (in my case 4) every day any day. For 99% of the people? Any other Porsche will be a better car.
Agreed. The S/T was not engineered to do Touring trips it was engineered to be a canyon carver, a weekend warrior, the best driving experience for roads across the 911 lineup. Certainly a base carrera or Turbo S would be better suited as a road trip vehicle
I wish Nova Globe would fix that seam that cuts across the whole design
The pin striping in the interior is so fly.
Those globes are sick
“New-old school” is a term that all of the manufacturers should use to guide the production of at least one model in their lineup. Ferrari could charge whatever they want for a car that captures that spirit. Basically a new f355, it would be everyone’s lust. If Porsche can still build naturally aspirated models that pass emissions, Italy can do it as well.
ferrari is more interested in selling hats they stuffed their NA V12 into an SUV though if that's your fancy
This will go down as a comparison for the ages 👍🏽
Seems like softer springs and a light flywheel on a touring gets you 80% of the way there
the springs are not softer on the S/T. It is the tuning of the dampers that changes the suspension feel between them
Speaking as a lower class man, do people put coilovers on the 992 gens? Or is it preferable to keep the stock suspension just bc maybe the stock suspension is good enough or it feels better to them
Outstanding piece Matt and Zach. Hopefully this will make the GT department deliver a "lightweight or Weissach" pack for the upcoming 991.2 variants.
Excellent explanation of the nuance’s, though ownership is a fantasy it was still important to know the difference, should I ever get lucky 🍀. Choice ? The touring, that bite point on the ST clutch would irritate me in stop start traffic
You know, the 100,000 plus dollar difference between the GT3 touring in the EST is not worth it. In my opinion. I would just change the dampers to the Olin TTX and recalculate the suspension if I needed to in order to get out some of that. Dardeniness. I wonder if you can order a GT3 touring without the rear steering. Great review! Love the whole thing. I'm still a fan.
Matt continues to lead on the KZhead sponsorships no joke
No one can hustle a car in the canyons like Matt Farah. Freakin awesome video gentlemen.