PS5 Pro: Why Didn't Sony Deliver A Much Faster CPU?
2024 ж. 2 Сәу.
56 718 Рет қаралды
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It's a mid gen refresh not a next gen console that's why
It was cheaper. Mystery solved 😂
PS4 pro had a faster processor than base PS4. So that "argument" goes out the window.
@@paulszkiSo does PS5 Pro, but it's a minor upgrade
It’s supposed to be higher frame rates, so a CPU boost was definitely needed. Nobody said “we need Zen 4”, it’s just higher boost clocks than the OG PS5, but guess I guess it was like it is to make the PS5 Pro cheaper to produce and sell.
@@paulszki well, your argument also went out the window, once you consider that the base ps4's was subpar to begin with and updatewas pretty much necessary for a "pro" console. That isn't the case with the base ps5. There really is not much of a reason for Sony to waste money on r&d or on the increased price of newer cpus. This is especially true when most ps5 games are completely gpu bound.
Mid gen upgrade always means: *Every game needs also to run on the base model!* It's basically the same with Series S + X: they also share the same CPU architecture. So even if they wanted: they simply cannot put more power into PS5 Pro because for the Devs it would mean to develop each game for two different types of console architecture... and for each current game to redevelop a version for a much faster machine. It would be uneconomically and with XBox bringing Series X2 in 2026 ... Sony might consider doing also another generational jump in 2027 and leave all "old" Ps5 tech behind ...
This is why
Sony is probably gonna ride this generation out until 2028.
Gotta love people who believe every rumor out there and treat it as undisputed fact lol
Absolutely agree with you... just cut the 9th generation short and bring on the 10th generation in 2026 instead of dragging it out... After all, past console generations were only 5-6 years long instead of the 7-8 years today
@@Loundsify more like 2030. Of you haven’t noticed the best looking games aren’t coming till the end of this year or next year in 2024. This when we’ll start to finally get to see what next gen looks like. Next gen was never merely about running games at terrible resolutions for 30fps lmao
Find it kind of gross so many people are okay with badly optimized games (look at dogma 2 sales) and are perfectly fine with a game requiring DLSS/FSR and Frame gen to be a playable experience. Got downvoted on reddit for daring to state id prefer more raster in my GPU's and for devs to focus on optimizing and less on the crutch of DLSS/FSR. Sad times.
Then don't expect 100fps on games with high settings
@@gothpunkboy89 If developers could develop it wouldn't be a problem.
@adaml.5355 It must be nice to think hardware is magical. There are limits to what hardware can do. You want to render a 2d sprite? Easy. Want to render a full 3D human with clothing details, full shadows that respond to the dynamic lighting. Takes significantly more effort. You now want 30 unique ones on the same screen at once moving and interacting? That takes a lot of horse power to pull off.
Haven’t tried it but from all accounts, it’s a good game despite the performance problems.
@@gothpunkboy89 well it’s a reality to think that software is magical, although it can be aided by hardware 😀 You do know that virtualized geometry/textures exist right? And both ps5 and Xbox support virtualized technology? Although virtualized G/T is still in its infancy stage, it’s supposed to have ZERO limitations to how much geometry and texture resolution a game can have. This means games can theoretically by infinite in details and graphical fidelity
I can't get over John's TV just casually being on fire in the background 😂
I think that cpu overhauls are more about generational leaps in complexity for games, and that the reach of the games in a generation is established at the beginning of each generation, so it makes sense to refresh the bells and whistles of the current paradigm (given by the capabilities of the cpu) in contrast to amplifying the complexity of games. Maybe I’m wrong tho
The ps5 and Xbox series consoles were near cutting edge at the time of release, I think this is more on devs not taking full advantage of the hardware than the hardware not being strong enough to handle todays games.
Agreed, devs are lazy at that department. If there wasn’t a pro upgrade between the next gen, then devs should optimize much more. Sony could enforce a mandatory performance mode. But people are already bending the knee for 30 fps games
The visual advantages of games runnnig at 30fps are not compensating for lacking 60 imo. Especially on an OLED screen 30fps is like watching a slideshow. I'll choose 60fps over a tiny bit of extra graphical fidelity anytime.
@@dannykusters6842 yeah me too, 60 fps is a way better overal experience than more graphical fidelity. If possible I always play on performance mode. I play Dragons Dogma 2 at the moment and I struggle with the framerate. But I don’t want to put it down. Hoping for a performance update 🤞
@@dannykusters6842or 40 fps if you have a 120hz tv
@@murray821 Game devs work crazy hours (that's expected in the industry) for 5 years and if the game is a failure, it will certainly mean lay offs. And yet there are people who think they could do much better, but they didn't because they were lazy. It has nothing to do with laziness. It's a matter of resources.
I don't expect wonders, but hey if they actually can do 4k-ish in more games. Getting that resolution up, makes sense right.
I wonder if adding 3D V-cache to their processors is a vivable path. given it's stacked and doesn't take up die space, that said maybe beefing up the caches on the CPU in general could be a big help IIRC they have much less L3 cache than equivalent desktop Zen 2 parts.
The CPU is fine. The vast majority of games are GPU limited and the main issue that needs addressing is very low resolutions with bad reconstruction, which is what they seem to be doing. There are very few CPU limited games currently and most of them also perform quite bad on PC with much more CPU power. There's little point in completely changing the architecture just to brute force through some bad code. Most games will continue being 60fps as they are now, just not at 720p.
You don’t know shit about technology. The CPU definitely is a limiting factor and claiming that the CPU doesn’t matter means all games apparently perform the same which is completely false. You need a powerful CPU for physics, raytracing and sending information to the GPU at a fast rate to construct the information. The PS5 Pro GPU is %45 faster while the CPU is the same.
@@ZackSNetwork Physics in a 1080p game and physics in a 4k game are the same physics. You need a fast CPU and good RAM to send information quicker. Which the consoles have. Both consoles even have dedicated hardware decompression so they can bypass the CPU and pull straight into the GPU for textures. Your argument might be valid if the CPU's where like last gen with both the PS4/One having old and very weak, even by entry level PC standards. This gen CPU's are actually half decent ones that can already do ray tracing and 4k with frame caps.
@@gothpunkboy89 Agreed. A Ryzen 7 3700X is still a good CPU by today’s standards.
The PS5 PRO is going to be absolutely fantastic ! The fact is we're probably all going to have one. ...and like it too !
Agree. Nintendo got BOTW running on a wii u with a 3 core power pc CPU running at 1.2ghz. If the Devs are willing to put in the effort, and no doubt many do, there is plenty of power on tap to fulfil their vision assuming they don't just default to high end simulation and graphical features available at the click of a button in-engine in lieu of crafty and frugal programming. BOTW is a masterclass in that, the shear number of individual shaders, particle effects as well as the pre-baked lighting that paints the environment belies the complexity of the weather and environmental simulation. But it allowed them to dedicate the CPU power to the impressive physics.
I just upgraded my 10700k to a 13700k and saw a 30% improvement in frames. GPU matters but CPU are not to be ignored.
That's only if your CPU is bottle necking the GPU. If you are already 100% utilizing your GPU the most powerful CPU ever made won't help you diddily on your framerate.
You most likely weren't targeting 60fps and had your GPU maxed out, if that was the case you'd see zero difference.
@@randysalsman6992Incorrect. Cache matters
I think it's all down to minimising pressure on developer involvement and not to hinder current PS5 owners experiences. Zen2 is still a decent CPU and was pretty cutting edge when the PS5 came out with Zen3 only just launching. Meanwhile the PS4 had a CPU that was a much lower tier in their X86 CPU lineup and the PS4 coped well for 7-8 years.
I think that if devs were given more leeway with the hardware they'd just put in even less effort optimizing their game. They'd rather save on development costs than spend the extra time to provide a smoother experience, because they've probably figured out that people will bitch and moan but buy the game anyway.
Your blaming devs for what the publishers do
they do it for exclusive games but not for the rest that is down to the developer and as we have seen both PC and consoles are being neglected re optomisation. but most of the time they do patch it, unless its EA.
@@mikew1080 They always do. Ironically with so many going to work these days, many have forgot everything around them is a business with a big management hierarchy. People have become simple minded, finger pointing, and blame one group because it's easier to do than to have to think about it. To have all this knowledge and experience, yet have the dumbest most manipulated society will be looked back on in history one day (if there is a future) of what not to do (get lazy, stop thinking, depend on others to think and do everything for you).
@@McnoobletThe truth of the matter is that the gaming industry needs to shut down permanently
They should had just made a 1200 ps5 from the jump.. instead of making people buy two PlayStation… a 1200 monster would be the move since yall want to spend the same bread anyway buying a refresh plus the old one.
This was all explained in many leaks before... first it was decided upon to stick to Zen 2 because of not only cost but help not to break the backwards compatibility, 2nd would be power requirement limits balanced out across the system as a whole... next most games would be GPU limited... and the main benefit is to give "options" of putting in better raytracing and to toggle that on or off for the PRO and that it won't be available for the base models... its really not that hard folks but I get it if all you do is casually game.
I have a rtx 4070ti and an intel 12700k in my pc and still struggle to run certain games above 60fps at 1440p… I really think it’s an optimization thing.
It is. Just see what Naughty Dog did on PS4. The CPU in that thing was a joke even at launch.
Or Rockstar - I cant wait to see what they'll accomplish with 6 @Henriette187
turn off ray tracing dude lol
@@dylanallen7720 to clarify, i mean hitting stable frame rate. I can easily hit above 144hz on a lot of games, but the frame drops will go all the way down to like 70 on games with poor optimization.
Because of compatibility and also that 99% of games that are remotely well optimized will not be bottlenecked by the cpu, just the gpu. That’s why.
Exactly. PS5 has many games that are already running at 60FPS and higher. I'm pretty sure every 1st party title and console exclusive has 60FPS or higher, and some of those retain features line RT. It's no longer April 1st, but judging by this video, you'd think it was.
Uhhhh... literally all but 6 games from last gen run natively on PS5. Rather well, too. Do they not? So throw that compatability excuse out the window.
@@counterstriker3971 they could do it, but I would ask why? It would cost Sony a considerable amount of money in both design costs and silicon manufacturing costs (zen 2 cores are much smaller than 3/4/5) while also forcing dev’s to update already released games to take full advantage of the new cpu cores, when a vast majority of games aren’t bottlenecked by the cpu. New games now have to optimize for another cpu type moving forward too. When moving to a complete next gen system, it makes sense to have a clean start, but no need to break the bank reinventing the wheel for little to no performance gains for a mid gen refresh when the gpu is and will remain the bottleneck.
@@SimonStewart75hell F1 23 runs at 90+ In its unlocked mode. It’s held back by GPU.
It's much harder to optimize for CPU than GPU.
That is why I will wait for reviews before buying the Pro. With that said, I have seen other channels discussing the enhancement target of 4k 60 with ray tracing. I take it you guys are skeptical about this due to the CPU bottleneck?
Not really, like they said it’s on the devs regardless of hardware to hit it
The enhancement target is a boost to 1.fps 2.res 3. Rtx. Not all 3 at once. Much like the ps4pro i doubt that every upgrade will be a boost to all 3 let alone 2
The GPU is not powerful enough to target native 4K and at 60fps you clown. It also doesn’t have enough memory bandwidth and the CPU is exactly the same.
@@ZackSNetwork even the rx 7900 xtx struggle at 4k lol
@@ZackSNetwork You could say that without being an asshole.
*It's not the CPU ... It's Software developers getting lazy and not finding a need to optimize due to powerful hardware unlike last gen* Its simple... If given strict timelines , we will choose the fastest option, not necessarily the best one 9 times out of 10
Sounds like a hobbyist view. Sure, we want to pick the most optimal route to deliver a product. But this is not about churning out shit as fast as possible. In a proper production, a certain performance target is set according to the hardware. That informs all the production afterwards and is especially important for the graphics budget (not in terms of money, but in terms of frametime and memory). We may not pick the so-called "fastest" option because that target also needs to meet the vision. I don't think developers have ever worked harder in the history of gaming to try and optimize games. Back in the day, we had to have even tighter graphics budgets, but the methods we used to keep it down were also ridiculously simple. We used to talk about occlusion culling or fov tricks as if they were genius sleights of hand, these days these are basic and far from enough. We're having to consider whole new technology integration just to shave a millisecond off frametime. Simply put, games have become so much more complex that 'optimizing' them is taking up far more dev time proportionally to 10 or 20 years ago. What we chose is what gets us a certain performance target. This varies, but the fact is that for consoles, the most commonly accepted and chosen is 30fps stable. That is because players accept it. If players didn't accept it, then the target would be something else and the whole vision and scope of the game would adapt to that. Devs (organized ones at least), don't pick some optimization roadmap then just take whatever performance comes out of it. That's ridiculous, unless you're a hobbyist or amateur jumped up on 'optimization' narratives.
Exactly. Look at DD2 running on a super high-end pc at launch. The game barely held 60fps! Smdh
I kinda agree. If HFW or Death Stranding can run at 60, these less demanding games with shit visuals should hit 60... But then again. I'm just thinking logically. Most of the PS5 exclusives run at 60...
@@counterstriker3971 Whats high end to you, may not be high end to them. Yes they should had held back their vision and ambition. AC Unity was a good example of this when it launched with PS4, eventually they had to remove NPCs and a bunch of AI and scale back their original vision because the CPU hardware available at that time wasn't up to snuff. The real question instead of simply blaming developers would be to wonder how far ahead of the current hardware they actually are. Of course they usually do well to stay within performance budgets, but these games take a long time to make, and every once in a while an ambitious design comes about that is dependent on certain processes which then makes it difficult to simply scale it back, and actually do need more powerful hardware to come out. Keep in mind, if Intel/AMD could make a CPU that is 300% better than the best currently, would they? Of course not, they would rather sell it to you 3-6 times to get there. So there's a lot of moving pieces here that it isn't necessarily as easy as just saying "UnOpTiMiZeD!! Lazy devs!!". These games take a long time to make at that, perhaps they underestimated the hardware that was going to be available today.
@@NACLGames- sounds more like a RATIO to me
Very few console games are CPU limited, and if they used a Zen 3 or 4 CPU or something then devs would have to put in tons of work for a game to run on both the base model and the Pro model, while just enabling different graphics settings and resolutions for each version is comparably far easier
It's odd to me they wouldn't beef up the cooling a bit and clock the CPU higher. It has a lot of headroom design-wise. Clocks alone could probably get them a 15-20% uplift
What are you babbling about
It's an APU (CPU+GPU) and using a process 2 gens behind Apple M3. So there's actually not a lot of headroom unless you want to blow out the curve completely.
Another pertinent question to ask is that since the CPU upgrade is a must on the PS6 (or whatever it is going to called), will you still buy it if it is no longer backwards compatible with PS4 games due to the silicon changes?
I wonder how big ps5pro will be. Base model is the size of highrise building
Are you like 5ft tall?
I still wonder if they’ll do 3D cache, that might be a good way to boost CPU performance.
cache is expensive, takes a lot a space and power, so, not good for a very big APU unfortunatly
You don’t know anything about technology. 3D v cache is to expensive, gets to hot and will not fix on the due of an APU. There is a reason why APU’s have significantly less cache than regular CPU’s.
@@ZackSNetwork L? It’s a Pro you Goober. There’s rumors it could be $600+.
Sony should increase L3 cache in that zen 2 processor. This will help gain performance
Cost and power budget, along with architectural differences are the main factors. Next-gen (PS6 late 2027?) will likely be Zen 6/ RDNA 5/ GDDR7/ TSMC 3N / 30 TFLOPS or better. Exceeding a 200W power budget is overkill for a console and just requires overly large cooling, etc. People aren't looking for consoles at the cost and size of a mid tower PC.
😂😂 30tflops bro are u comedying me... Ps6 will be minimum 90 or 100 Tflops
Incremental Progress, YEAAAAAAAAAH HARDCORE
The only reason this exists is to get PC gamers to buy a PS5 pro over a series X when GTA drops.... I find it funny a lot of people are btching "there is no reason to upgrade from my current PS5!!!" When we all know good God damn well that if it was a massive upgrade y'all would be crying "But I JUST got my base PS5 wtf Sony!?"
Probably, because they didn't feel they needed to update the CPU. Their purpose is improved Unreal 5 performance. The PS5 PRO is going to be fantastic.... I'm absolutely positively sure we're ALL GOING TO HAVE ONE. (and like it too!)
The ps5 still has a lot for UE5 improvements
UE5 is overrated and unfinished. It took them 3 damn years to make Fortnite stutter-free on PC. Games like Lords of the Fallen run like crap on all platforms, a simple GPU upgrade won't make UE5 games run good. Epic Games needs to step up and make their engine better.
@@nikitos3558 fortnite didnt stutter on console. And every other game besides fortnite right now are all indie games. The big budget UE5 games won’t come out till the end of this year or next year.
They advertise a few stats for graphics like resolution and framerate when it’s so many other settings. So we had ps4 advertising 4k 60 fps now it’s 30 fps 1440p and they need to upgrade again to promote the same stats. Games are very cpu demanding lately. We won’t see high refresh rate console games till ps6 launch and it’ll repeat going down to 30 again.
All I see is yapping from everyone about cpu limitation and zero explanations and evidence of what exactly is happening that’s causing these limitations
Probably mid gen upgrade and also price making it not stupidly overpriced when released.
games still utilize gpu way more
Cool story bro. Granted at this current time. The cpu is feeding the gpu what info it needs. So basically all they are doing is creating a bottle neck. The same bottle neck we saw with the Xbox one and ps4 lmao.
Literally depends on the game, typically the game genre. Games that are physics and/or computationally complex are more CPU heavy. If you’re trying to play for example CK3, the CPU is taxed way more than GPU.
@@douglasburton1060Putting "lmao" at the end of your statements _really_ shows confidence in yourself and your opinions.
@intellectic9155 lmao. I bet you don't understand the statement then. But thanks for the arm chair psychology guy.
ignorance is bliss aint it?
cant believe were still rocking with 30fps on console in this day and age
its pretty embarrassing lmao. like if you want to have an optional super high resolution mode thats locked to 30 fps, fine. but having no solid 60 fps option these days feels like heresy
Most games come with a 60 fps mode.
Its on the devs. The hardware is fixed, its on the devs to target 4k 60fps. Many don't.
Consoles are always going to be rocking 30fps. They are budget hardware designed for the mass consumer market. These general consumers don't give a fuck about 60fps, they care about how shiny the graphics are. If you want 60fps in all titles, it's time to get a PC.
@@xuimod because console cant do native 4k 60fps its all upscaled it aint no were near as powerful as 3080 which is most baseline for 4k 60fps
I assume the answer to this is fairly simple. They don't intend to change the games very much or do much testing/tweaking. The games are being developed around the lowest common denominator (standard PS5) and a little more GPU power just allows for a better base resolution and some simpler graphics settings tweaks. ...CPU upgrades will come just not really a focus for a mid generation update existing along side the standard PS5.
If the games were 4k@40fps using fsr on quality mode and 1662p@60~120 with frs 3 balanced to quality mode using dynamic resolution would be perfect! That looks next gen to me.
1. In video A some experts and journalists will question why the rumored CPU specs didn't receive a bigger bump, and point to a few games that are CPU limited. 2. In video B some experts and journalists will question the need for a PS5 Pro console because "next-gen" hasn't started, and devs haven't fully tapped into the console yet. Which is it? I really think people should stop making assumptions about rumored specs and just wait until the HW and specs are official. Then measure the performance improvements, if any, over the base console, and pass judgement then.
This has been DF's thing for a while now, and the timing of this change is rather curious.
I suggest waiting for actual games running on the hardware. If specs were an accurate measure of console performance, the Series X would outperform the PS5 by a wide margin.
@@toastyburger 100%
It's both most games take 3-5 to even more years to develop meant for ps3 or planned for ps3 didn't release until the Ps4. We saw this at the start of this generation and we see how devs have glued on Ray tracing to their games. Expect full ue5 games until the ps6
It's always interesting to speculate but only the final product will show us what the difference will be.
Cost effective would comes to mind. If you upgrade your ram or cpu on your computers. Would your 1080p 70fps game somehow jump to 4k at 60fps? But what if you upgrade your 3060 gpu to 4090 ti voila. Now you can run games at 4k over 60fps. Cpu and ram makes the difference of like 15-fps . Each hardware changes just make hardware more higher price and lose profit. Remember ps5 cpu is not in house manufacture. Its custom cpu amd made for Sony. So it scale differently than if Sony design their own cpu.
There is no 4090ti, only a 4090.
A CPU bottleneck is not set at 15fps of a loss. It can heavily effect the performance of a GPU with stuttering, frame pacing and having less than half the performance of a GPU’s potential. The comments seem to be full of console morons that don’t know anything about technology.
@@randysalsman6992 thats not the point though.
at least they should buff l3 cache for cpu
I am guess they stuck with zen 2 simple for compatibility for all ps4/5 games. Going with zen 3 or zen 4 might have broken many ps4 games. It make logical sense. Almost %90 ps4 game are playable on ps5. Ps4 Demo often don’t work. Some very old ps4 game prob don’t run well on ps5 or they got major patch so they would be playable.
If you cast your minds back to Mark Cerney talking about the development of the PS5 he said that he asked the devs what they wanted and worked with their asks to develop the PS5, he stated that Sony and he as a result wanted to make game development on the PS5 easier and faster for the devs! So if games developed for PS5 are having performance issues, it’s bad code and optimisation by the game devs, as dudes in this vid clearly reiterated the console is a fixed set of resources. So point fingers at the devs not the console maker.
🎯🎯 this right here. I've been saying game devs are either lazy asf or just outright suck ass at their jobs 😅😂😂
its a zen 2 cpu shits 2 gens old
dudes speaking at conferences can say all kinda of things. doesn't mean it's 100% true. doesn't mean it's false, either. shades of grey, man.
@Wes_Trippy4life Yep, look at Demon's Souls. 1440p (upscaled to 4k) 60fps. It was a launch title and arguably still the best looking game on PS5. There's no reason why most games shouldn't be hitting 1440p/60fps on the current hardware.
@@boffifis1 bro isn’t cooking 💀 Direct storage and the ps5s flash controller were solutions for cpu bottlenecks. With this type of technology IN USE even a zen 1 cpu could put outperform zen 2 having bottlnecks.
I just want more games aiming for 1080p 120fps games on consoles. I already miss the early part of this Gen where we had so many 120fps titles
Right. I got a TV not long ago capable of high refresh rates but rarely will I play a game that gets 120 fps. Mid way in the generation and they're still not utilizing the console to its fullest
I will take 1440p/60fps over 1080p/120fps any day . 60 fps is smooth I do not need smother but 1080p is just not as clear as 1440p is.
That’s not going to happen because resolution gives a much better first impressions to casuals
I own a LG C1 and the games that support 120fps just look too low res and blurry for me. I'll leave 1080p @ 120fps experience for the average PC gamer pleb.
@@electrikoptik Doom Eternal at 120fps looked pretty damn good to me on my PS5. Maybe my TV just upscales it well but the difference seemed negligible 😅
Will ray tracing in Performance mode work on ps5 pro?
Even adopting Cezanne would have been a huge boost.
In a previous discussion on the PS5 Pro, it was mentioned the CPU bottleneck was more due to the single threaded performance, thus implying there's more head room if better multi-threaded was implemented.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
If they can make a game that runs on an 8-core Jaguar CPU that’s slower than a Core i3 for 7 years, I don’t know why they complain about the PS5 CPU being underpowered. It seems more like an excuse for poor optimization.
they will have DLSS and as a pc owner of a mid range pc it makes all the differnce, hopefully it will do the same for the ps5 pro, my pc would be redundant now without DLSS.
they will have DLSS ? Nvidia on consoles lol
I was told the PS5 PRO would help the performance of the PSVR2. But now that we're finding out the CPU upgrade is minimal, is this still the case ? Because I was holding off playing Resident Evil: Village until the release of the PS5 PRO. Anybody care to weigh in ?
I blame delopers they jumped much too far forward. These consoles were a massive jump.
While I do think you’re right, I also think that they are under a lot of pressure to show a “generational leap” in graphics. Even when they push visuals to the max at the cost of performance, they still have a lot of people complaining that the games don’t look “next gen” enough.
I blame the time constraints and budgets. They would love to hack out a better running game if they had the time
@@quattroCrazy We faced the same issue with the PS3 era. The jump in resolution meant a lot of the additional horsepower went to resolution instead.
How do you know they didn't? Sony haven't released any specs for the ps5 pro yet
Leaked
Do you not understand what a leak is 😆🤦🏻♂️
@le4-677 is it a 'leak' or rumour? Have you seen pictures of this leaked console? Or is it just what someone said? 🤔
@@tristman8413it's all bullshit until Sony confirms anything ...that's the reality
He doesnt know what a leak is.. 😂😂
In hindsight (or not even that, even at the time) it was quite impressive how Visceral got 'Dante's Inferno' to run at 60fps to benefit the action, while still looking pretty great. - Granted, they probably pulled that off with the static camera, so that what's on-screen is very controlled at all times, and I believe there were some noticeable dips. But that was on the PlayStation 3, which most people around here know wasn't something easy to deal with. And now, they're pushing fidelity so hard that they need to turn down resolution, can't always reach 60fps, and need to compensate with upscaling and frame-gen solutions as well. I understand that it's a lot of stuff to render these days, and I love me some eye-candy, but if you're gonna develop for consoles, play by their rules. People wouldn't mind if you make it look "pretty good" with also great performance, over super-fidelity with mediocre performance (and ironically lowered resolution, ruining the fidelity anyway).
Anything similar workgraph on can be less cpu bounds. But memory could bottlenecks the gpu.
Because if you change the CPU generation you will almost certainly come up against compatibility issues. Games that once worked fine will have issues.
they all use the same instructions. the only difference is the added cost for Sony using something that is not five years old.
not on PC....
@@crazyc9326pc gamers don't get cheeks
@@based-ys9um speak for yourself
@@logirex they do, but backwards compatibility needs to be adressed. In PS5, the Zen2 Cores have special timing modes so that it can run PS4 games designed for 'Kabini'. Without them, games not optimized for the new CPU architecture would have experienced stutters and hitches as the game code is expecting a certain order of instructions that won't occur, as everything in Zen 2 was different (scheduling, branch prediction, optimization). Zen 3 or even Zen 4 pack substantial changes to Zen 2, changes that would require the same treatment, all the while delivering not so substantial improvements (20-30% in IPC can be a lot, but not really enough for 120 locked). I suppose this, plus little demand for more CPU horse power by devs led to Sony's (yet to be announced) hardware choice
Price, compatibility and die space. Plus there is more of an issue with the GPU than the CPU on current titles. Most games with issues are GPU bound hence their low resolutions in performance modes. The CPU is pushing 4Ghz. That is more than sufficient for 60 FPS on competent systems.
1440p /60 fps on a $500 box is a great deal .
@@Crashed131963 lets hope frame gen 120fps.
@@Rubik43does it have to be 120? Won’t any number between 60 and 120 be fine?😊
@@techsamurai11 only if you have vrr, which is very easy for TVs actually, the fact is that if you have 60-70 fps it is very easy to also have 120 in frame gen.
@@Rubik43 I don’t think all games double fps with fg.
It's very likely that PS5 will be the last generation to support physical games. So I might as well just upgrade my base PS5 to a Pro anyway just to be on the latest and greatest to play my PS4/PS5 game library indefinitely. It's speculation of course, but this for me is a much overlooked reason to get the Pro if you have the budget for it.
i seriously doubt that they didn't move from zen2 to zen3 because of size constraints or compatibility issues. it would have just been an more expensive SOC and Sony doesn't want to pay that much. it's that simple.
2:44 Ollie has hit the nail on the head. Sony aren't so interested in frame-generation going from 60-higher, they're mostly interested (long term) in 30fps to 60fps. Get ready for a generation of console fanboys not understanding that it's not actually 60fps and inherits all of the input lag associated with 30fps.
😂😂
This has to be a late AF joke.
Look at games like god of war. Graphics options from 30 40 60 to 120 with optimised graphics to match those modes. No matter that mode that games is on it is graphically one of the best looking games to date and meets the target frame rate. Cpu means nothing if a game developer knows how to utilise the hardware. Only thing holding this gen back is the xbox series s.
My only question is will it run Helldivers 2 performance mode at 4k 60?
got the x box series x i youse 720 frames the reason it makes no diference to me
Something that is hard for players to accept is the hardware being okay and the optimization of the devs being below par. As usual gamers want 60fps in a closed box without the sacrifices necessary to make it possible. 60fps games have been possible this whole grn and have been largely acheived.
Zen 3 was a big uplift from Zen 2, don't know what they're talking about.
But Zen 2 is still used and overclocked BUT with RDNA 3 functionalities. it is more from PSSR 1.0 to expect a boost.
Hell, it wasn't even Zen 2 as such in the PS5, since it was missing several features that where found on Zen 2 CPU's, including any onboard L3 cache. It was more like a Zen+ CPU, with just a few extra Zen 2 features tacked on top. Even the clock speeds where more in-line with the older 8-core Zen and Zen+ CPU's. Even a 1700X had a higher boost clock of 3.8Ghz and more onboard L2 cache.
Generally as studios get larger and more hands are needed to develop games I feel like a lot could be Lost in translation back in the day people were forced to work on specific hardware and maximize the performance nowadays it seems like that is not the case with engines getting larger and more pressure on developers crunching there have been a lot of examples of very high budget games that fell flat due to performance the industry is going more towards a digital multi-platform format much like PCS there's got to be more to it though because for the life of me I can't understand why it would make more sense to make a half gen upgrade instead of trying to put more energy into the software side of things new sdks new apis that make the system run better that type of thing maybe it's the pressure from the higher ups or maybe there's just more elements to it
I think they could have kept zen2, but given a much bigger boost to frequency to help push higher fps. Then it could run in two modes. Compatability at original frequency and boost mode at a much higher frequency. This 200-300 extra mhz is not good at all. It sounds like the new APU is going to be a bit unbalanced; great gpu but relatively weak cpu.
The PS5 could easily run the CPU at 4.2Ghz. I think the hardware devs just had a budget to meet.
PS5 Pro day one - if I can’t fight off the scalpers…
Gullible
@@mikeuk666 Nah, you're just poor.
@@mikeuk666Salty Xbot
@@ChimpyboiHe's an xbot. That's why he's crying
Lmao imagine buying the ps5 protato 😂
Because Sony did not want the Pro to be more than $100 more expensive than the base Ps5 . Same reason Sonny does not use a 4090 gpu in their $500 console . Next question .
Ryzen 7700(non x) is the same price as 3700x was.
@@VladiatorXtoo much microarchitecture changes. It's ok for PC environment, but probably not for fix spec like consoles. Because there, developers expect almost always exact behaviors.
Suspensive 💀💀💀
Plus the games would need to be reworked to adjust for that. That is literally two different architectures for the same gen. No one would do that
There needs to be a new console that uses nvidia moble chips like the rtx 4070 laptop gpu realisticly never over 70c with decent cooling perfect for console
The memory bandwidth has been greatly increased on the Ps5 pro does that make a difference in gaming ?
Yes, but only if the previous amount is not already enough. It's like having a door with people walking through, now a normal size door is wide enough for most people to walk through but then a 800lbs person tried to go through, they'd get stuck. So a wider door would be needed. Wowever if the door was already like a double wide door to begin with that 800lbs person could fit through just like the average person.
@@randysalsman6992 Ok I see .
Nothing is confirmed by Sony yet!!!
Cool 🥱
They did the same with the Ps4 Pro a big gpu upgrade but the same processor at a higher clock speed.
Fr fr, no problem with DF talking about the rumors, but I don’t think they emphasized enough that theses are still rumors, however credible they may be.
@@ottomaticallyawesome Just one fr is needed
@@DeadPiixxel you right, fr fr (fr).
*Compatibility*
That is not an issue at all. "Compatibility issues" didn't stop PS4 pro having a higher clock speed either. Developers simply had to patch their games for pro-support.
@@paulszkiIt was the same Jaguar core just clocked 500 MHz faster...
@@Radek494 yes, 2.1 from 1.6ghz That's not a generational leap, but it's a significant bumb. Hence "pro version".
😆
@@paulszki Yeah, we're not going to get 4-5 GHz CPUs on consoles, as they'd be too hot, loud and consume too much power. We'd end up back in the PS3/360 days of them killing themselves. The launch PS3 power consumption was ridiculous - I remember checking my smart meter - can't remember nowadays, but it was VERY high.
IT'S THE RAM and THE tight TIMINGS
Ignoring "Robocop Rogue City" using UE 5 and still runs great on PC Handhelds like Legion Go, there will be other UE 5 games that will rely more on CPU.
These aren't hardware problems. These are project management problems.
Yes
Yeah, that’s what they said in the video. 😅
The ps5 pro can easily just shift over power to the cpu cause that’s how the ps5 was designed and we haven’t even used the console yet or seen it in practice so there’s no point in jumping the gun and John is spitting facts dude is very humble.
Cool story kid
Power shift doesn’t make the CPU more powerful. All it does is gives more power delivery to the CPU over the GPU to maintain a power envelope of the 200watt TDP.
As soon as new hardware becomes available, developers will want to draw more triangles, this in turn hits image quality and frame rate . So it seems we are in a never ending cycle of new hardware that solves the shortcomings of the old hardware but that soon exhibits the same limitations as the hardware before it. Just one continuous cycle.
Nope. With virtualized geometry and textures games will no longer be held back considering hardware is sufficient, and we are yet to know how much hardware is sufficient. I don’t know what the avg triangle count is for current games is but I do know that in the UE5 demo the ps5 at 1440p 30fps peaked at a 30million triangle count with nanite. This means the ps5 can run games with zero graphical limitations at 1440p 30fps as we know so far.
I agree, it always depends on how well developers make the most of the hardware. It’s not as if there were no good games on previous generations. Also, just look at PC games, how many titles take full advantage of the highest level hardware
I'm gonna wait until PS6 Pro 😂
Good luck waiting til 2032. That takes a lot of patience 😂
Wise man
Sony upgraded the PS4 Pro specs to 40% upgrade from the original PS4. Judging by the specs of the current PS5 Pro that is coming it is only a 15% increase falling short from its predecessor by a lot.
Yeah but original sucked comparatively
the ps4 was a large helicopter
Isn't there like a 40% increase on the gpu side with the ps5 pro?
@@Aki_Lesbrinco it won't help much in cpu-intensive games. So GTA6 might still run at 30fps. It's just going to look nicer at 30fps. So if you don't care about 60fps, no worries for you.
These percentages seem a bit misleading.
Sony don't want to beef up the CPU because they want their pets to have small head and big fat body so they'll look cute and very huggable. Shiny healthy furs is a must too. If they make the CPU too big, well, you can imagine your cats having a bigger head than their body. I don't think it's possible in many sense.
Because 3 games are stuck at 30fps (Gotham Knights, The Quarry, Industria) and FF7 Rebirth that has a performance mode that runs at 1440p but for some strange reason produces a blurry image, ans we are here judging this a 30fps generation? Come on guys, this is a 60fps generation, and every problem some games face on performance mode is also a problem for PC with a equivalent hardware?
Gotham Night is the worsed optimized game. Using more single thread instead of parallel threads. GPU is not well used and so on.
@@rasitsimsek9400 Exactly, and that isn't even a looker. The games with the best graphics this gen, they all have a competent 60fps mode or higher. Avatar, Alan Wake 2, Spider-Man 2, Ratchet and Clank, Demons Souls, GoW Ragnarok, Returnal, Horizon 2, etc, etc, etc. Some even with Ray Tracing at 60fps or higher.
Nobody wants to upgrade to a pro when they have a ps5 and a lot of them paid more than what a series x would cost, and many waited long for stock. Many still bought it when Sony increased the price. TRADE IN value will be a disaster loss so yeah very few will buy PS5 PRO if they have a PS5 this is guaranteed, it’ll be thousands only through PS5 PRO lifespan
It really confuses me why so many people are questioning this decision when nobody did with the PS4 Pro which did the same thing, so did the One X. The reason being as far as I'm aware is if they change CPU then games have to be programmed and optimized separately, and all current games that work on the PS5 will need to be updated to work at all on a PS5 Pro if it used a different CPU. Overclocking the CPU is a good way to avoid a couple of those fps drops and is better than nothing. There is absolutely ZERO reason for games to be running worse when there's not only optimization but also reducing visuals to make the game run is what they should do instead of pushing them so far. Games on PC can be pushed, they don't need to on consoles, but they want to make the console look good.
A Ryzen 3600X equivalent CPU is surely capable of handling 60fps current gen, the console should not pursue locked 120fps RT settings, that is for 4090 PCs.
Because Sony knows that their audience will buy 30fps games in droves (no matter what YT commenters say) and it’s much more economical for them.
What sony game is 30fps ?
@@defiantgiant01It's so weird isn't it? Every 1st party game has at least a 60FPS option or higher.
@@SimonStewart75 yer very weird 😂. But maybe not considering it’s economically better. 30fps for a more economic future.
@@defiantgiant01I’m still waiting for his answer
@@mordakie3805 he’s might be in economy mode so it might take a while for a reply.
There are no games no play on PS5. Why would people buy another one ?
English?
It’s not a mid-high to high end PC, price point amongst other things
Games which don’t run at 60fps on the New consoles ain’t because the hardware isn’t capable and instead it’s the devs not putting forth the effort to optimize like they did back in the day. If the devs did optimize properly then every game on the market can run 60fps with the current gen hardware Xbox Series X / PlayStation 5 so when that doesn’t happen it’s a dev issue not a hardware limitation.
It’s all about optimization and Sony has been proving it the Ps5 Pro will be worth its price tag 🏷️
Oh the PC fanboys are crying 😂 i love it
Why are they crying?
@@TheFreeToaster Cuz PC is becoming obsolete in terms of FPS and graphics. But modding will always make PC a special place 👍
That's not realistic, but ok.
@@TheFreeToaster Cry PC fanboy.
Consoles are PC's now, who's 'crying'? The biggest reason consoles are no longer interesting is because they're just x86 machines. They might as well be off the shelf $500 Dell Alienware at this point.
Money. That’s is always the answer to why every company does anything.
Frame rate is the major issue this generation NOT image quality....I'll take 720p@60fps any day
A simple answer would just be "because the CPU isn't high on the list of bottlenecks."
But it's the biggest bottleneck.
Please listen carefully to what is said on the video.
@@ezg8448 so the CPU in ps5 isn't the biggest bottleneck?
@@ezg8448 so the CPU in ps5 isn't the biggest bottleneck?
@@sandorclegane3658no it's not, why you making shit up??? It's the GPU, Devs want to scale games to 4K and the issue was never the CPU, it was the GPU, you dumb mfs don't even understand that 3.5GHz CPU is enough to run games at 120hz, higher resolutions and fidelity needs a better GPU, why do you think they improved the GPU? You losers are everywhere online saying CPU bottleneck when it's not, just because some Devs have been doing some bs optimisations y'all think it's the CPU, higher resolutions need better GPU, that's why they doing that, CPU is fine lol
Because that would be called PS6
If that where the case, then PS4 pro should have been the PS5 because it had a faster processor.
Exactly
No that would not make any sense, PS4 pro exists to be slightly better than the jaguar apu. Comparing that to ps5 is weird @paulszki
@@HShango you completely missed the point. PS4 pro went from 1.6ghz to 2.1ghz. That's an actual spec bumb around 30% higher clockspeed. PS5 cpu is like... 5% faster. The question in the title of the video was "why no faster cpu for ps5 pro?". The answer can't then be that snarky "because it would be called a PS6 then".
@@paulszki not as big a jump/upgrade bc the CPU wasn't NEARLY as sh!tty as the anemic Jaguar CPU was. You ppl comparing the 2 without knowing what your talking about is weird 😂😂😂
because it's mid gen? lol also L3 cache matters more than clock speeds in gaming. Also the gpu is the most important thing when it comes to gaming. Also just because it has triple the teraflops doesn't mean it going to have triple the performance, look at the 6800xt and the 7700xt, the 7700xt has more teraflops than the 6800xt but doesn't perform better than the 6800xt in most games.
Talking about 30fps , but why buying 2000€ GPU so you can play at 4k 60fps but with fsr3 od dlls3 . I just want good gameplay 30 or 60fps doesn't matter.
Its a mid gen console, so I'd not expect it to be a massive overhaul of ps5
But then it's not a "pro"-version.' PS4 to PS4pro cpu went from 1.6ghz to 2.1ghz.
@@paulszkiand the PS5 PRO will reportedly boost up to 3.85 GHZ compared to the the base PS5's 3.5 GHZ. What's your point?
@@michaeljohn5130 that aint much of a jump tbh
@@paulszki You can´t really compare that crap CPU with Zen2. The biggest jump is in GPU like on PS4 Pro. This time a bigger jump than from PS4 to PS4 Pro. 1,84 Tflops to 4,233 TF.... Now it is from 10 ~ TF to 33 ~(if it is true). So a way bigger jump. But also the new technologys eat so much more power, which makes it probably lower in reality.
PS4 Pro got an upgraded BASE clock. PS5 Pro 3.85 is just Boost Clock over a base of 3.5 (don’t expect it to remain boosted for long due to thermal constraints). That makes the PS4 => PS4 Pro CPU upgrade beefier
maybe cos sony know what they are doing unlike microsoft
lol what kind of an argument is that lol
🎯🎯🎯😅😂
@@murdendev a valid one that's what 😂
@Wes_Trippy4life so why did Sony who "know what they are doing" just lose 20 billion? Also had to stop production of the psvr2 due to a backlog of unsold stock that now is being moved to pc to recoup losses? 😂😂😂
Hearing that console games need to drop to 720p to maintain a frame rate makes me think folks need to start to reconsider 60fps @ 1440p and 4k on PC landscape and start to ditch this 144fps and 240fps at max or ultra settings fantasy. These consoles do NOT need to be capable of more than 4k 60.
8 core Ryzen is fine. Plus it’s expensive to make APUs with bigger GPUs.
What games are 720p??😮
Alan Wake 2 is an example.
Forspoken is another example
What is cost is the answer.
No one would be complaining if the 3700X on the PS5 was running ar 4.5GHz or even 4.2GHz.
Yeah if it was on 5nm it would easily run at that using less power.
It is not a 3700x its actually a bit below a 3600
@@blue_ish4499 Okay, "No one would be complaining if the "8-core zen2 based CPU" on the PS5 was running ar 4.5GHz or even 4.2GHz."
@@MaxIronsThirdhey don't be a smart ass little guy your the one who mentioned a 3700x ...noone else did and you assumed it was in the PlayStation and someone called you out on your bullshit that's it's nowhere near a 3700x it's actually way below a 3600 ...3600 smokes that ps CPU....
Hit ‘em with the heiiiinnnn
They need to put all the extra power of the new console into more FPS, 'cause that's all we need