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The fencing piste is not normally a setting for controversy, but that all changed at London 2012 when Britta Heidemann took on Shin A-Lam.
The most unusual moments from Olympic history are investigated once again to reveal the stranger side of the five rings: bit.do/StMENG
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Olympics channel is like: "Let us show you how we fucked up"
yeah, thats why all fencing scoring machines switched to fractions ever since
@@praveenakaash9095 same thing happened to Mary Kom with Colombian opponent. 😢
Wasn't it the timekeepers mistake for misinterpreting the judges request and also the judges for adding a full second.
@@gezzapk Not really the fault of the judges since the technical limitation of the clock forced them to add a full second
It's not really the olympics, its the IFC who fucked up.
They did not have clocks that could be reset to a fraction of a second in a sport that deals with fractions of a second? That is pretty bad.
John Smith we have now (and for over 4 or 5 years at least) 😁
It wasn't there, I thought that much was evident? Idk about you but I just watched a whole video about it
Well, it's hard to foresee and account for all possible situations that might arise. They clearly didnt think such a situation would arise when they made the rules to use those clocks.
Lol well said
It is. As a fencer myself, every mili-second (even smaller) counts.
imagine the international winner being randomly assigned
Yeah it’s weird as. Because of the way it worked out, I’m absolutely in Shin’s corner and think she was the rightful winner. But that’s already based on a rule that randomly decides one of the competitors gets an advantage. If they must have that rule it should be known beforehand who will have priority based on ranking or high standing in the preceding tournament or something. Randomness just feels wrong in that situation
@@BD-yl5mh It's probably so that games don't last too long or so they never end in draws. But yeah, dumb rule.
That's the dumbest rule i've ever seen
An option that i thought in literally five minutes: give priority to the fencer that scored the first point.
@@Guilherme-ip5lh But what if all preceding points are double hits?
I was there in the audience that day- insane to watch. Felt awful for her
Wow awesome
And I am Keyser Soze
Well. I dont feel bad. If your only hope is a tie and for time to run out, you dont deserve a win.
@@lhagiduty the problem is, she's performing so well and she followed every single rule, the problem is not hers, it's a technical problem. can you imagine watching something that you work so hard to achieve get ripped in front of your very eyes because of someone else's mistake, and unfortunately that "someone else" is in power, so they bring you down. the problem didn't came from her, so it is unfair and unjust.
@@mizanmazfullah152 she still played to not lose instead of playing to win lmao got what she deserved
That moment when you realize your school team has more accurate scoreboards than the Olympics
Eric Ness can your scoreboard be set down to the millisecond?
@@colinmurphy2214 🤡🤡🤡
@@colinmurphy2214 shhhhhADDAP!
Lucky. I somehow ran the 100m in 7 seconds according to my school and the guy about 3 meters behind me ran it in 5.3? Yeah I don’t know.
Jaylen Liu Yeah you ran world record time beaten by 2 seconds xD
So ur telling me that the Olympics don't have a timer with milliseconds but my phone does????
@Dr Boom pretty sure most handheld devices had the processing power to count in milliseconds by 2012
you dont listen too good huh? the olympics has whatever they want but the fencing rules dictate what they use and theyre hardly going to change the rules mid olympic final are they
That’s not at all what he said. Can you set your phone timer to 2 milliseconds?
Gaming Videos, and to think that it was in 2012!
All the machines that have timers were updated even at the club level to include milliseconds. Don't remember when it happened but it was as a direct result of this.
It's the most absurd rule that in case of tie one is randomly chosen winner.
They should remove their helmets for the last point in case of a tie.
No, Because If you're a champion title holder, you should win, because you're the best. If someone could manage to beat you or balanced you, you're not the champion anymore. It works that way with many Martial Arts Championship too (Not All).
@@heriander_ I think to become the champion you must beat the champion. A draw isn't enough since it doesn't prove you're more deserving of the title.
@pyro Maybe fencers would finally learn to hit without being hit back?
@@teacherdoug1797 usually they do, like in this case where it took several tries and minutes of constant attacks to do so. But when two fencers are so evenly matched, there is a need to end a match or else it will continue for way too long.
The most disgraceful part: the pathetic officials
So you've never made a mistake when you were under a lot of pressure?
@@elmo4979 by your logic if "everyone is human and human make mistakes" then teams should start bribing officials to make dumbass mistakes like these so they can win
@@elmo4979 shut up elmo
@@burentori9620 That's not by his logic at all lmao. What are you even talking about?
That moment when the freaking OLYMPICS doesn’t have access to a clock with milliseconds
I mean... Would it change anything? Olympic fencing is a mix of really bad rules and corrupt judges that it's just laughable. Not long ago, a guy stabbed his own leg and was awarded a point, even after a video replay analysis...
He explained this in the video. The clock does have milliseconds, but only displays seconds (much like your computer's clock). When the clock was accidentally started, the only thing they could do is set it back to 1 second. It's unfortunate for sure, but it was the only action available.
@@muizzy My phrasing was a bit off. I meant that they should at least have a clock that displays milliseconds,
it's a medieval sport so that aspect may have been left out purposely
Midaspl as a fencer, that is a bullshit and can’t be possible.
Theyre the biggest sporting event in the world and cant afford a clock that can set miliseconds
World cup?
Olympics > World cup
DevilVocano nAh check viewers and stats the World Cup is much bigger than the olympics
Nope 2010 World Cup was watched by 3.2 billion people according to FIFA, olympics were watched by 3.6 billion people according to IOC.
Seto 78 but by the amount of disciplines, athletes and honor gained for winning, Olympics is way bigger than WC
In 2012, it sorta became a meme in Korea. The opponent is regarded as a master of sword arts like ones from Jin Yong novels, who could stab 4 times in a second. Also, "1 second" became synonymous with "an extremely long time to do anything". I feel sorry for her.
I see
I can see how frustrated she is, she couldn't possibly defend at her best after struggling in such a helpless situation.
Funny af😂😂😂😂
@@viralviruz8694 Of course she had no choice but to lose because the game wasn't over until Heidemann won.
So shin was unjustly cheated out of her victory. Olympics should be ashamed and the fencing association should be ashamed also.
They won’t. Coz almost nobody care. And they knew it
Lol The only reason she would've won was due her name being drawn which means she got the advantage of winning if it remains a draw after extra time. That's a bs rule. She would've won by luck. Heidemann won by skill.
No, she was given an unfair advantage through that priority rule, and the time that restarted was for both, if she would have attacked, probably it would had been drawn and she won unfairly
@@MrOP-jw1zp it’s a strange rule definitely. However, there still was an error and injustice when that error could not be corrected properly due to poorly written rules and equipment.
@@divyanshagarwal5001 it’s a strange rule. The issue here is not about skill, but about application of accepted rules. A clear error was made by the officials, they knew what happened and by how much. They just couldn’t fix it because of bad planning and it seems no punishment occurred for the officials.
It's like abusing saves in a videogame to avoid defeat.
Forrest sos My thoughts exactly!
lmao
The solo problem is u only ducking a computer 😂
Emulator save states
I guess, expect thats on the player, this was an error by the officials
Every one that is in sport knows the value of milliseconds. How could the olympic not have known this
in fencing dont count miliseconds
@@marvinsilverman4394 death comes in nanosecond. Fencing is a death sport
Well, now they do
@@marvinsilverman4394 It is a sport in which hits happen in less than a second. I don't see why they wouldn't need clocks that could measure in increments of a second. Even without thinking about this unlikely situation it just makes sense to have more precise clocks since the sport revolves around movements faster than a second.
the truth is, they didn't even care about the sport itself, they just care about money they're just trampling the athletes with corruption.
in my memory In a bronze medal match after this match, a Korean commentator said, "Who wants to watch this match? and who wants to relay this match? but we can't leave shin a lam alone in the stadium" I remember the commentator's comment. This tragedy should never happen again. Make a fair judgment on the athlete's four-year effort towards the Olympics.
I haven't watched the match, but it hurts seeing her cry
Ah, Great Deutschland. Lol
I cried so hard for her. 70 minutes sitting there without leaving. That was heart breaking
Have you been there?
I can feel her. Having priority and loses
@@javiedkawification cheated not lost.
@@huskiehuskerson5300 lost, not cheated
@@THX--jp8sy both.
I dont understand fencing but between the clock not being able to be properly calibrated and there being such a rule as priority being randomly chosen seems like a sport that needs a lot of tweaking.
All sports need tweaking. You were watching a video about The worst thing to happen in the sport. Compare that to ghost-goals being allowed in football/soccer before they even started using cameras to check.
This is only one part of the sport, Epee. Epee is the most straightforward if you were to look a Foil or Sabre, then you would see the other side of the sport where Right-of-Way has a say in how things are scored.
Epee doesn't really need tweaking. Its up to the fencer if the score is even if they want to let the time run out and have someone randomly given an advantage. Its kind of part of the game. You have to make the decision to either play more aggressive or take the gamble that you'll get the advantage.
I was competetive for some Time It's never choosen randomly my friend ;) There are rules even for it :p
Well if you think about it, she could have tried to get a point too. Instead she tried winning by a technicality. Expiring with a draw and she was "priority" meaning in the event of a draw she would be the winner. The sport isn't about getting to a draw, then win off of a silly rule technicality. It is about poking people and not getting poked back.
I watched this game live in 2012, at that time, it was ridiculous for me, how the 1 second could last that long, the counting clock system was a disaster
probably because it's human activated and electronically stopped (somebody launch the timer but as soon as there is a hit detected it stop) and the human had weaker reflex than the athlete to the referee count down
Billion dollar gaming event.. doesn't have a penny to get an accurate clock(?) That's frustrating.
tradition.... the sport from the 1700's...
This is why I feel like priority shouldn’t be awarded at random, but to whoever scored the first touch of the match. Simple fix which gives even more meaning and value to the first point. Fencing and random do not pair well.
What do you do if it's a double hit or 5 double hits in a row?
v2nkata I guess that would be a situation where random would be acceptable because there is literally no other choice
That's why I'm not a big fan of épée fencing. Sabre for the win :D
Jacob Ciolino that's not a bad idea, actually!
I did not know it was random. That's bull.
i don‘t know fencing but this priority rule sounds like complete bs, really
exactly you dont know, The reason its there is for chase
J Bav explain me please. why is it that someone has an advantage by chance? why don‘t you have a rule based on the players performance instead of pure luck? like the first player who gets the hit has the advantage. or after the time‘s over you just fight until one gets a point in advance.
@@dankeman5266 theres no better explanation than "rule exist for a reason" honestly And these kinds of "advantageous" rules out of players control do exist in a lot of sports The easiest logical explanation from me is so the game wouldnt end up in stalemate It will be funny if both fighters is inherently defensive and both just waited to counter (thus no one even try to attack) MAYBE there is a better way to decide who got the priority or how should they end the match But its totally fine with me, after all they all knew about the rules, are perfectly trained to strategize their play around it and have exprienced having advantage or disadvantageous position from it Thats just my take anyway
@@dankeman5266 u can get priority/in control when u Parry and Riposte, which is why Shin was still in priority and it didn't go to Heidemann (Or u can get priority by being the one who attacks). It was not random. Since they both scored at the same time, the priority holder remained. Shin would have totally won in the last 0.2s but it was a tragic end. The person speaking in this video made a mistake.
Sen. George Franklin try fencing for 10 days and it will be clear
The referee made another mistake. According to the rules, two players should not be that close before the game resumes. + And the German player started moving before the referee resumed the game.
Basically, the whole game was fucked up!
Look again, 04:12 Heidemann was almost 1meter behind the line, and look the judge's hands, Heidemann moves AFTER hands move to start.
@@cesargarridov These 2:40 2:44 4:12 are the three matches in 0.920 sec. The two players must be at a distance that the swords do not touch each other when they stretch their arms and swords. In the original video, the judge instructed the German player to step back, but the German player still stood close and the judge just started the match in all the three matches. And look at 2:40. The player must move after hearing the judge says 'Allez'. The German player moved before the judge said it. You can clearly see it with x0.25 speed.
@@Lee_Ji-hoon why are you looking at 2:40 and not 4:12?
@@elmo4979 These 2:40 2:44 4:12 are the three matches in the last 0.920 sec. Each match takes some time out of the 0.920sec. They are all important.
"hey, make sure that the clock is accurate" "ok let's round it up to the nearest second"
I remember seeing this live on T.V. Even the German commentators weren't sure what to make of it.
Shin was cheated so hard, what an injustice.
What an injustice she lost despite randomly being assigned priority...
@@olebergst.5828 Thats a good point lol
I mean... just remember two teams playing football, after 90 minuties one team gets + 1 goal so only has to defend while the other team has to make 2 goals to win and 1 to break even in 10 minutes after play time - then they get an extra 30 seconds, score two times and the other team starts crying like Jackson Spencer because it was injustice. This is a farce. She lost DESPITE BEING ASSIGNED AN UNFAIR RANDOM ADVANTAGE and that manchild is crying "cheating, injustice!". That's utterly ridicolous.
Uhm, no, apparnetly she was not the winner. Who was assigned the win? Who got the medal? Who did a better piece of fencing in this fight? Clearly the German. The rule is stupid, no matter what, and it's somewhat of an injustice not to acknowledge that. She won DESPITE a random disadvantage and has proven to be the better fencer, why are you guys all so bitter? Because a stupid random rule was trumped by a split second extra time? Beyond pathetic.
@@olebergst.5828 the "split second extra time" was stretched. we all saw in the video how many chances she managed to push in within her .5 sec previously. obviously the extra .8 sec meant a lot in this match. furthermore, she was at a RANDOM disadvantage. you said it yourself. The priority was random and either party had equal chance. That is why her winning despite this 'disadvantage' isn't any help to your arguement. She tried 3 times within 1 sec and hadn't managed to land a blow. how is she a better fencer?
"Sport where honor and respect are key" Me, a fencer who has been aware of cheating on numerous occasions throughout the years: "well about that"
do people still whip their epee around for free points?
@@bramcasteur8926 I mostly do sabre with some foil experience so I'm not as aware of epee cheating. Sabre is admittedly easier to cheat at because of dead spots in the lames. I know of some people/clubs either bringing dead lames when the local tournaments don't test, or (if the club is hosting) not testing lames on purpose and directing their members to use dead ones. Also, much more skilled fencers taking dives in DEs to make sure their teammates receive ratings or qualify. Lots of fun when you're trying to be a fair player.
You can't say this and not give us some juicy examples to look up 🤺😜
@@Ami-ut2us no instances (that I know of) made an impact large enough to make the news. Fortunately I never witnessed any cheating at higher levels (regionals, nationals) though I expect it still happens. Unsurprisingly, it's easier to cheat at lower, local levels (see my above comment). The issue is that those lower levels are what allow you to qualify and compete in higher level competitions. I was personally cheated out of a rating because of a skilled fencer taking a dive when fighting one of their team members. I'm not saying it's impossible to achieve a rating or qualify fairly, it just makes it more difficult and you sometimes have to compete well outside your local area to avoid known cheaters.
이건 1초의 문제뿐만이 아님. 신아람 선수는 계속 거리유지에 불만을 표기했지만 심판은 distance 라고만 지시 아무 제제를 하지않음!!
퇴장 시켜도 할말없는 수준인데 계속 속행함. ㅋㅋ
Shin A-Lam should've won, that was very unfair. The Olympics, the largest International sporting event, can't afford clocks that can be set to 1/1000 of a second.
@@derdon8927 priority switches during a match, like offense and defense in american football. only reason she didn't have priority is because she wasn't good enough and kept getting countered. that's all apart of the rules of the sport. the only thing that was unfair was the advantage of extra time given to the german even though she already lost.
Der Don priority switches if the person without priority scores. Fencing is centuries old and changing a core rule would be wrong.
@@goastlyarrowplays It is sudden death if the person without priority scores its over
@@derdon8927 shin was assigned priority, and she fenced very well using the priority, but then heiddeman was given an extra second that shouldn't have been given because the literal rules were that heiddeman had [this] much time to score a point (which she failed to do) and then heiddeman was given an advantage that wasn't even specified in the rules to start with and completely unforeseen.
It is not that the Olympic doesn't have them, as much as they were not used in fencing. Even in sabre -out of big tournaments- the clock is not even used. You only get a 1min break after one fencer reaches 8 points.
It Really was unfair. im saying this as a German but that was a mistake caused by officials.
@@fynnoleianson8802 They don't have to, but they also don't have to not say that they're german.
@@fynnoleianson8802 blame the crackheads that always say "Oh, you're just complaining because your [name specific race here] lost." It's a really annoying argument to come across and i've seen it happen multiple times, therefore this is a counter to that type of argument.
@@fynnoleianson8802 It's an increasingly required preliminary defence to stupid counterpoints.
@@fynnoleianson8802 agreed
Agreed. The referee and the timekeeper bear sole responsibility for this.
So, this is a reference of the moment after Ko Yu Rim lose to Na Hee do in 2521 kdrama haha
Unbelievable, that’s not a fair win.
It was a fair win..she played by the rules.
actually it is fairer than winning by being drawn.
@@varrjames186 However by the rules, the match ended before she got touched. Let's add 1 second to every other time based competitions from now on so it's fair !!! Use your brain.
@@hansimgluck6789 Eh, I agree that they're should be another way to determine who wins rather than just winning by a draw, but the point is the game lasted for extra seconds
@@Osirion16 I'll say it again...it was a fair win because she followed the rules and did not play unfairly. The match hadn't ended before she got touched. Use your brain.
Terrible moment in fencing and Olympic history. Who wants to lose or win like that?
Germany, apparantley.
Jeen Lee german lady enjoyed the win
Just like the Korean fencer would have, so what?
The Germans apparently.
Well, on the other hand, who wants to win or lose randomly? That's what the priority rule is, and to me it seems even more stupid than the clock that can't be reset to the nearest millisecond...
I have a similar experience during my middle school. I placed first on 100m sprint, but the person who should be tracking my finish time didn't do his job properly so we were asked to restart the race. During that time, I just finished 4 sprint events (100m, 200m solo and relay). Feeling hopeless, reluctant and dejected I still have to comply with the field event judge's decision. At the end, I placed second. Although, this happened on lower level it still affects my whole experience as a teenager. Thank you for taking the time to read, just wanted to share the unfairness that I've experienced after watching the video.
maine x no one cares
Rory Abc 123 Clearly you do.
Plorin nah don’t and no one actually does
Rory Abc 123 Then why’d you comment? You care.
Plorin no one could care less about a school race I was saying there’s no need to comment that
saw this live, i couldn‘t believe it
As a fencer, every time I watch this video I have so many emotions. When someone wins in such a short amount of time, it is so infuriating and emotional. I can only imagine what Shin A-Lam was feeling when her victory for herself and Korea slipped away because of a clock mistake. It is absolutely heartbreaking.
In my opinon, if the mistake was by officials, they both should have been awarded Olympic Gold or completely restarted the entire match. This was unfair, it's mental torture for both.
it doesn't work tat way... there is only 1 (ONE) gold..... for an event.... it is a pretty big acheivement to get silver anyway
this was a semifinal, not a match for gold yet
Both?! Nah the Korean girl should have been the winner
Korean one should be the one getting the gold, but if you want to be as fair as possible to the other girl the match should have been repeated.
@@dnch what
tfw you launder billions of dollars every Olympics but still can't afford clocks with milliseconds.
It's NOT about affordability. It's just the fencing folks are old-dated. Now they have milliseconds clocks now
@@HusseinDoha I bet fencing didn't include fancy suits in the past...
it was more tradition than anything else... appears it might have changed now.. things usually change when there is controversy.... but at that time - them was the rules...
How do they launder money?
too sad that Shin has to be a first victim of a tradition of fencing
Checking this out after watching 25 21
I found this clip out of nowhere. Sooo 스물다섯,수물하나 used this situation as a reference for Ko Yu rim after she refuses to leave cause she loses against Na Hee do???
she was robbed!!! felt so bad Shin is a true winner!
no, she wasn't it seems... if you watch the whole bout she strangely creeps up each time the bout is halted... gaining ground that she shouldnt have .. not sure if she would of been over the line if she hadn't done this though....
you can't be robbed of something you don't have
I mean no. In the end Heidemann was the better fencer.
she had Luck that she had the Prio
Luck that she had priority.
"Make sure the clock is correct!" "OK I'll order a pizza with extra onions, Ref"
I'm starting to think that the timekeeper was named "Siri"
Wow, I didn't know there was an infinite time stop attack technique among the fencing techniques. This is a skill that physicists need to study.
epic 🤣😂😂
epic anime techniques
This is heartwrenching as someone who also fences. Couldn’t have imagined even the Olympics didn’t have a clock for milliseconds.
That's totally unfair to the Korean. Clock man's fault. Rules need to change or the clocks do
they did, on the last ten seconds the clocks now show the tenth and hundredth of a second remaining
Blame also lies on the ref...she didn't enforce proper distance when they were resetting. You only have a 40 millisecond window for a double touch, and even being 6 inches closer (both fencers were crowding, but Britta was more at fault there) often means the diff between a single and a double hit at this level of epee. Of course, it could be argued that if Lam had scored one or 2 more hits earlier, it would've been moot -- time runs out often in foil or epee bouts -- but the ref did Lam no favors, nor did the timekeeper at a critical moment with a guaranteed medal on the line.
Are you kidding? Priority is bullshit. She won fair and square.
Fencers crowd....ref says "distance, distance"...fencers back off....Britta immediately steps forward again...ref doesn't enforce proper distance. Britta is now too close and Lam has nowhere to go.
sam signorelli +1 complete BS
Why didn’t anyone go and give Shin a hug?
I know! I wanted to hug her so badly :(
Not a Korean attitude. Could have been considered belittling her.
because coach was sentenced labor punishment in a coal mine
sergio rm0 shes south korean, literally a country with higher level of human development than the US lol
They did after the match...relax.
this reminds of 2521 kdrama is. if luck didn't side with hee do i think she could be the same situation to ms. shin (on this video). but yeah i'm grateful how the kdrama do a plotwist to hee do's fencing career.
Man, after all that... Shin must have been piste
Boo 😒
@@vivekvarghese your hatred makes me stronger
@@vivekvarghese hey at least he tries. Some people just don't bother with being entertaining.
@@vivekvarghese Bee
this actually pisses me off
Piste
Mistergunz _ same. I'm not a fencing fan but I'm pissed also
Maybe this just gave me a reason to hate Olympics because of how unprofessional the decision was.
Nah, it shouldn't. The winner deserved that win. The priority rule is stupid. Adding random chance to an olympic sport, and something so purely skill based is stupid.
Same, I’m an epee fencer and this is just terrible.
That was an interesting way of explaining how a match was rigged
Wouldn't be even remotely surprised.
The power of time and luck was on her side, plus it was super clean hit
Yes Si it doesn’t have to “super clean” it just has to be a hit. Also it was a inexcusable mistake, the incorrect call, and they knew it was incorrect and gave her a huge advantage.
How?
If it was rigged wouldn't it just be much easier to give the German priority?
As a result of this shock, to Koreans, the name Heideman was Trauma.
@@user-sw2hx5iqk5c ㄹㅇㅋㅋ 상대선수보단 심판 ㅈ같은건 다 기억하긴 하지
아 시각 좀 넓히자 국내따리 시끼들아 신아람 1초는 한국버전이고 하이데만, 금메달의 멍에 또는 밑에 말대로 펜싱 오심, 올림핀 불명예가 더 먹히지 내가 왜 영어로 썼겠냐 영어권에서 먹히는 말을 한거다 영어 배울때 의역을 왜 배우겠냐
@@user-sw2hx5iqk5c 눈치 ㅈㄴ 없나
Shin should've won yes but this priority thing is unfair too.
it's randomly picked, what would a better way to settle it be?
@@pengo2 I forgot everything so idk
@@pengo2 Sudden death? Next single hit wins.
@@Atombender I think saber does this, but I don't really know anything about it
@@Atombender you have NO idea how long and boring that would make the game
priority rule is controversial, both fencers are extremely skilled, timer thing was just unfair. period.
it was quite unfair on the korean but the priority rule is stupid
non-fencers like you who try to critisize the system are really funny and stupid.
Why does the priority rule exist though? Im genuinely wondering.
wouldnt it be fairer if they would add on another minute if it still remains a draw, or after the normal time go to golden point
thats not for you to decide, its up to the FIE
Zhang Why not give priority from the first touch of the match or something? Is there really value in the coin flip?
why didnt they just whip out a phone and cancel anything that went over the .22 seconds or whatever? like surely someone could just watch the recording and see if the time is accurate or not
Nah that makes too much sense.
@@bboygenetics9882 XD
they had no clue how much time had passed when it was happening, its not that simple lol
@@swer9112 they could've just looked back at the live recording and see how many milliseconds there was instead of resetting it to 1 sec
@@swer9112 the entire thing is recorded and broadcast around the world, im sure they could've pulled up the match in seconds to count how long it remained at 1 second for.
OMG Ko yurim and ne heedo
genuinely such a shameful moment in olympic history
hardly.... her coach appealed against the decision and that appeal was rejected....
@@albertbresca5801 are you daft
@@albertbresca5801 if the coach appeals that the officials just started adding more time to the clock for no good reason whatsoever while shin was in position to basically guarantee a win, and korea appealed, and it was rejected, would that be fine? Because I literally just described what happened in this match. Shin shouldn't be punished for the timekeeper being a dunce.
@@carrots7216 no there was nothing they could have done differently. Their was time on the clock before the referee let it run out so they had to put time back on the clock.
@@officerwizz and otherwise heidemann would have robbed aswell there was time on the clock so they had to put time back on the clock nothing to appeal for.
So intense!!! So tragic for South Korea.
They got their revenge now ⚽
NihilisticEntropy nihilistic entropy. LoL.
south korea has had a lot of down to the wire events in it's history, they're practically built on them.
they world number 1 now lol
NihilisticEntropy Erm, they’re one of the world’s economic leaders, I don’t think you can simply trash talk them like that.
3:19 "The timekeeper misinterpreted this instruction." So you see, communication breakdown was the reason Shin lost in my opinion. If timekeeper wouldn't misinterpreted the instruction, Shin would have won.
shin should have lost as she kept stepping forward after each hit... not sure why that was never picked up... in fencing you stay where the hit was scored.. and if you step behind the line with both feet - lose the hit...
@@albertbresca8904 Oh thanks for telling that I just realised it now lol! 😂🤣🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Twenty Five, Twenty One brought me here. This was like a Ko Yu Rim moment when she lost to Na Hee Do
Oh, so the Austrian referee Barbara Csar was personal friends with Britta Heidemann? Wow. Shocker.
Super sad. Super duper sad. What a disgrace
Blue Pepper Yeah, but the video said that the lowest the clock could go to was 1 full second, so the timekeeper wouldn’t have been able to set it to 200 milliseconds anyway.
It was the timekeepers fault. Ref asked timekeeper to check time and they let the clock run down. Timekeeper didn't do their job right
@Blue Pepper it's the referee's fault.
white color sports
if i was heidemann then i wouldn’t be able to live with myself for winning knowing that it was a false win.
False win? You mean in accordance with International Fencing rules set out by the Fédération Internationale d'Escrime? Yeah right LMAO
@@swagcube5050 in no sport and I mean NO SPORT, time is added to the timer That is complete BS. Give me one reason why 0.2 should be changed to 1.0.
@@shadownin1188 That is absolutely right. But there is also no reason the clock should be changed to 0. The officials are to blame not the athletes.
O but the priority rule is ok or what?!
@@LupiZweier the priority rule maybe BS but it is still the RULE. While time add is not in the rules.
이런일이 있었었구나 ㅠㅠ 신아람 선수의 눈물이 제게도 닿는 듯 합니다… 너무 통탄스럽고 비통한 판정이네요
Who knew 1 second could feel like so much time
As a german i have to say that this is really heartbreaking ... im not a big fencing Fan and i didnt really realise this happening in the olympic games 2012, but this was undeserved :( Of course noone can change what happened this day, but she (shin) will remain as the winner of my heart :)
dude she won, Shin should have made a better counter
Ima agree with Jacob. Clearly she didn't care by the end on the count of she thought she was going to get away with being lazy. So, Much like a child who had their toys taken away she sat cried and tried to make people feel sorry for her laziness failing, which sadly it worked. She still lost however.
I bet you guys applaud a boxer who knocks a guy out after the bell, too.
that would be a disqualification. the timer is the only time that counts
Yes. And when an Olympic official adds time to a clock that is not called for by the rules, that's called corruption.
I always felt priority was a stupid rule
It's not a stupid rule. It's there to discourage the fencers from being too passive and to determine who wins once the extra time is done. You cant have them fencing for an endless amount of time. At some point the bout needs to end with a winner. Hence priority. The rule is fine, and both fencers have the same chance to gain priority and to score that touch.
while it has reason, it is an unfair rule. your situation, whether in advantage or in disadvantage situation, is determined by a random generator or coin toss, not by their performance, which isn't fair at all.
Christian Albert Jahns: You dont seem to understand what the definition of "fair" is. Maybe you should look it up.
+DeusExAstra To preface this, I do not know much about fencing; however, the rule can be unfair even if it is applied equally. The extreme example is if every match were decided by random number generator. Obviously, that system is incredibly silly and unfair. The unfairness comes from the fact that every competitive game should be decided on the basis of who is the better competitor, unimpeded by random external factors. Despite all of this, I do sympathize with the idea that the bout does need to end, but wish that there was a different rule that could fix the problem.
DeusExAstra but the priority rule is randomly picking a winner if time runs out. Although each person has the same chance of gaining priority they have no control over who gets it
So Heidemann got through due to an absurd timing system, but if she hadn't registered that winning hit, then Shin would gave gone through due to a completely different but equally absurd rule.
its not absurd.
@@santiagoferrari1973 of course it is. One fencer is randomly given the win should the score be a draw. How is that fair?
@@eepyautumn totally agree. when i first heard that i was like huh????!!!!
pov... you're here because you started to like fencing because you watched Na Hee Do and Go Yu Rim from 2521
The fact that they don’t have milliseconds for the clock is total bs. You would think that such a precise and quick sport would have a clock that goes to thousandths of a second
when they reset back to a full second, they could have just done the simple subtraction on the original remaining time, and ended the match at 0.8 of a second.
And how does one measure 0.8 seconds on a clock which only moves by 1 sec?
I'm guessing the clocks stops electronically by the fencers' gear when there is a hit. The clock can't do it and a human can't strike at exactly 0.8 so you're left with an impossible feat.
But then surely if the clocks stop automatically when hit, if the German lady had hit after 0.2 seconds, then the Korean should have won.
They didn't think of that. A pressure of the moment and such. As others have said here in the comments, they should have canceled that match and do a do-over
The problem with that isn't so much the clocks but the fencer's ability to know the ACTUAL time remaining in this situation. A clock that shows 2 seconds might only have 1.1 left, but because the time hasn't reached 1, a fencer would still think there were 2 left...an eternity in a weapon with a lock-out time of only 40 milliseconds (for the non-fencers, lock-out here means the box blocking a hit from one fencer registering -- and a hit MUST register on the box in order to be counted to considered -- if that hit lands a specific time AFTER the other fencer's hit registers. In epee it's 40 ms, in sabre 170 ms, in foil 300 ms). Not all scoring boxes sold have time or score keeping capabilities, but those that do now tend show more detailed time in the last 10 seconds of a period...once the clock runs down to 10, you start seeing 9.9, 9.8, etc. Had that kind of clock been in place at the London Games, it would've changed how Lam and Heidmann fenced the last few seconds, because they can see the clocks.
That last hit must take ALMOST a full second since there was a parry in between. There's no way she could have landed that with the time left on the clock.
I mean, if the timer was at 0.200 seconds, they can just check if the last (winning) touch took less than 0.200s they use the footage for that
I think what bothers me most is Heidemann's lack of class after her "win"
Adil R i agree that wasn’t good sportsmanship at all
I don’t really do it when I fence. But a lot of people do. It’s not offensive, they are just letting all there stress out with a scream.
It's not lack of class. She was just extremely happy that she won. It's a normal reaction that she can't control. You smile when you're happy and you cry when you're sad. That's why Shin was crying. She was sad and crying is not something she can control
Rebecca Greenwood I have seen very little people that can’t control their emotions in elite sports. There is no doubt that winning the finals would that be a great moment but at least have some basic human decency.
@@rebeccagreenwood3302 I'm a fencer, and if I won this way, it would bother me. Because I'd never be sure I deserve it.
Poor girl. I genuinely cried at the end
One of the most heart broken movement....
It's so heart breaking to see her sitting there alone ):
Imagine a sport where you can win while being tied anyway. Oh wait...
Soccer?
Soccer.
@@toxicstarbot6701 In soccer/football, it goes to extra time and penalties if a winner needs to be decided in a knockout match. That's how you decide a winner. Giving a fair chance to both teams. Unlike in fencing where random chance is the decider.
@@gokulhemanthkumar4556 I do fencing. I know the issue personally. And I agree with you, yet I think it's kind of makes it more interesting. Like a game. Suddenly you are forced to shift from defense to attack or vice versa, depending on your style. In an official tournament sure it makes little sense, but in practices, it adds a new layer to the game. Also, in chess white also have a slight advantage. I was on this tournament in Istanbul, we had this 2 girls fence with 20 seconds left on the clock for almost 15 minutes. It was both hilarious and tiring. Say thanks at all. Old fencing watch (linked to your blade directly to register a hit), would restart a second every time you hit. Some matches with 1 second could have lasted up to half an hour.
@@piglitlol what soccer are you playing?
.22 of a second rounding back up to a full whole second? Thank god drag racing isn't in the olympics. Super fucked for an Olympics setup to officially go down like this :/
You call God's name then concluded with a profanity are you holy or not?
Ok, she should have one, but can someone explain to me why winning by priority is any better? Seems like a pretty unfair rule like, "If youre the lucky one with priority, you just win." The german's win was unjustified, but i feel like it makes more sense than winning like shin would have if the clock was accurate
Now we know how the bad guys in video games feel like...
This was saddening to watch when I first saw it. I would be pissed if that was me.
there was a BIG DIFFERENCE between a MILLIsecond to a SECOND. so disappointed about what happened to reset the time for a WHOLE SECOND. Your my champion Shin!
4:10 There are several more instances of misconduct unrelated to time. The distance at which both players have their arms fully extended and engage their fencing swords is the typical distance. However, Heidemann is bending her arm to narrow the distance. Shin protests this to the referee, but the referee resumes the attack without any response
As korean still remember this filthy game in 2021.
All the good technologies and yet Olympic still can't count
traditional fencing
There is literally a rule where a random person wins is that's way more unfair than this problem
Reaching priority minute isn't entirely common (much less than 50%) even in epee, and both fencers train extensively for the situation where they have or don't have priority. It's similar to whoever gets to serve first in tennis - somebody has to have the priority as it's a boolean. In this case, Shin as actually outclassing Bretta by getting doubles so efficiently - not many fencers could deliberately hold the World Champ in priority minute. It was Shin's game plan to go for doubles, and she succeeded (until the end).
Jasper Rehkämper The rule isn’t stupid, there needs to be a winner regardless of what happens especially in a sport where every millisecond counts. In this case the priority winner is truly random with no bias included, it’s not unfair since equal amounts of effort are required both to Attack and counter attack. Also the fact you mentioned that a widely known and acknowledged rule is more unfair than an idiotic decision/turnout shows your ignorance to a sport that’s been around longer than your great grand parents were a concept shows your complete ignorance. Games and sports have rules and if you can’t accept those rules than follow another sport.
@@christopherbertoli7322 They have a lot of fencing before the priority rule even comes into effect. So if they even let it come down to a coin flip it's their own fault. Both know the rules going in. Priority is a known rule. Randomly adding time to rig the game in favor of one competitor is not a rule.
@@nthgod "Sports have rules, if you can't accept them, follow another sport" What kind of stupid argument is that. If there is a rule that is unfair to a party (which is what priority is) then the rule shouldn't exist. I'm sure there is a better way to determine priority, or just introduce a golden hit or something. Also, yes it is unfair, because one player has to register more hits than the other to win.
U be surprised of how many rules in sports can have rabdom "advantages" In chess, white pawn is commonly know for being favourable and having higher winrate And u guess it, some rules decide players sides by random In football, UCL uses away goals advantage If u think its to negate "home court advantage" then NBA playoff can have teams playing a decisive match in their home court based on randomness Thats just quick example that i can quickly get out from my head Here, rules exist for a reason and players within a game is trained specifically for it Some of this seemingly "unfair" rules can and will make the games a lot more interesting and innovative Personally, idk why fencing uses this random rules but im not surprised
So you're telling me that a billion-dollar corporation can't afford to buy a millisecond clock? EVEN MY $20 CASIO WRIST WATCH IS CAPABLE OF DOING THAT.
I don't disagree that the fact the clock can't be set to less than one second increments is stupid, but the fact that Shin A-Lam would have won by literal random choice via the priority rule means that you can hardly claim this was robbed from her.
Exactly, you shouldn't be Olympic champion because you won a coin toss.
Well, she did spent that entire time defending that priority and registering double hits to keep the score tied. So yeah, she got lucky by winning the coin toss, but I wouldn't call a defensive play 'literal random choice'. The German role was to attack and the Korean role was to defend, they both did their parts masterfully, the Korean did get robbed.
You're inserting things that didn't happen into things that happened. That's not how anything works. Also, while priority rule may be dumb, it is a rule, unlike adding time to the clock beyond regulated time.
Yes but because the other one is German everybody is hating, Lam wanted to win by coin flip no honor in that and than crying 70 minutes but again the other one is German so they.always the "bad" ones lol
why didn’t they put that full second and let it go down to the time needed...?
It only goes down in full seconds too
@@aimeemcdonald1581 no it clearly stops at decimals or else it wouldn’t have stopped at .2 in the first place. They should have run the clock as if .8 was zero, and see where the next hit stops it. Edit: y’all stop liking my comment I was wrong lmao 😆
Spencer Geerlings the Olympic clock didn’t show 0.2 though. If you look at the bottom of the screen, it shows the Olympic clock, which only goes up or down in full seconds. A lot of people in the comments aren’t understanding. Obviously, there was not a full second remaining, but the clocks they had could not register anything less than a second. The KZhead video has put an additional green clock on screen but that is not the Olympic one
@@aimeemcdonald1581 ahh, I see what you’re saying. So the green is just arbitrary numbers for the effect
@@aisu8481 not entirely, the green clock shows the time that is actually remaining from the original 1sec. So it's not random.
Why didn't they use the most accurate method of determining the time they had, the CAMERAS, which would have accuracy much higher than 1 second, and use that to determine the time elapsed currently, and then the time elapsed during the final hit, and determine whether the hit would have made it in time to beat the buzzer? While the priority rule is... questionable, some practical thinking could have easily created a much fairer outcome.
traditional fencing... in 1 second increments.... they have timers that go to the milli second... BUT fencing traditionally was in 1 second increments.... strange though the ref. never picked her up on creeping up.. after every double hit lam stepped forward when she should have started with 1 foot behind the line... strange the ref. letter her get away with it.... each time....
The fans didn't witness a "bizarre" moment, they witnessed a steal
They almost witnessed someone advancing after a draw because of randomness.
Fun fact: watching a fencers shadow is more exciting than than watching the actual fencer; given the right conditions.
The "never-ending second" was 1.8 seconds long.
It was over one hour for the korean athlete
super unfair actually. should have fighted again from the beginning on another day with better working clocks... that would have been a fair solution after that mistake happened. A huge disadvantage, since she had to defence.
덥다 only having to prevent a score seems like a much better position to be in than to have to fight an entirely new match from square one.
There was nothing wrong with the clock. It was the idiot timekeeper who was at fault. The timekeeper "tested" the clock to make sure it was working properly, thereby running off the remaining tiny fraction of a second, and then re-setting it to a full one second. It was really stunning incompetence for the biggest stage for sport in the world - the Olympic Games. Unbelievable.
She didn't have to defend, anyone who gets a touch in priority wins regardless
It is probable that Germany would have won regardless of the time keeping mistake. Her winning strike might still have been in time as it happened so quick. I'm too lazy but someone should watch a replay and sync a stopwatch to test if it would have made a difference to the result.
Its unfair for sure, but the real question is... Did britta’s hit register before the original time stopped..?
its like hee do and yurim gold medal
That moment when some random fencing video game can do better then the olympics.
In my mind, Shin won that match and that's all there is to it.
Haha you lack of grey matter. That's all to it
Agree!! Shin is the true winner, played by the official rules 💙
Der Don Can’t I say the same to you, then? You do realize that you’re discrediting the Korean athlete’s work, right? You are saying that all of her hard work is worthless. And that brings up another question, if the roles were reversed and the Germans had the priority but lost due to the added time, would the match have been unfair then because the Koreans won? It seems to me your argument is based off of biased opinions.
Der Don What would have happened if the clock hadn't reset? Korean girl would've won. It's a shame. It's not unfair, there was an equal chance of the German girl having the advantage, and since everyone knew it before the game, the clock reset was unfair.
@Dr Boom Wow you know the referee was a friend of Britta Heidemann? Corrupt? Rich? I don't think that applies to Shin A lam.
That moment when a multi million dollar event can't even get timers with milliseconds yet my phone has one
Netflix's Twenty Five Twenty One. Anyone?
Yess....... totally a reference.
No sé cómo llegue acá pero gracias al drama 25 21! Me generó intriga el Esgrima, cálculo q el capítulo de la disputa tiene como referencia este suceso. Jaja