Why Modern Submarines Have Round Noses?
Special Thanks to Mason Obscura and New England Escapades for providing footage of USS Albacore. Please check their channels bellow:
Mason Obscura
/ masonobscura
New England Escapades
/ @newenglandescapades9157
Even wondered why submarines aren't shaped like fish? You'd think fish would have the most efficient body shape for a submarine ... and they do! But the reason submarines are round, not pointy, is #NotWhatYouThink #NWYT
Music:
My Reverie - Bomull
Brighter than Tomorrow - Beautiful Minds
Intro (No Handle) (Instrumental Version) - Pandaraps
Thought It Was Mine - Damma Beatz
Sidelined - Dip Diet
Shakedown - Lofive
Footage:
National Archives
Russia Ministry of Defense
US Department of Defense
Creative Commons KZhead Library:
VLOGNOSIS
Vyache
Cornishpastyman
Note: "The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement."
Because if it were shaped like a fish, they'll get fished out by enemies, but it's not what you think...
This guy's luck is not what you think...
Thats a good one!
If it's not what I think is it what I think it's not?
Enemy: I smell something _fishy_
Touche.
8:44 Fun fact: in almost no footage of 21st century military submarines do you see the actual shape of the propeller. They are either off-screen, submerged or (as you see in this video) covered. This is because the most important secret of a submarine is its sound signature. Revealing the exact shape of the propeller, which accounts for most of the normal noise it makes would allow an adversary to back-calculate the sound signature for easy identification and tracking.
That is a fun fact
preventing cavitation, which creates a lot of noise and wear, is also a big part of propeller design
There's a great recent french movie based only on this fact: "le chant du loup".
The Wolf's Call
@@JetFiiire Indeed, great movie
Note: ships no longer have "ship shape" bows underwater, virtually all major ships use some variation of the more bulbous bow. The sharp, V-shaped part of the bow is only used above the waterline to manage the effects of waves.
X-bow and Axe bow as extreme examples of managing wave resistance
Ships are bulbous below the waterline because ships move slowly compared with the speed of sound (like subsonic aircraft do). Ships are pointy (like supersonic aircraft are) at the waterline because they move fast compared with the speed of the sea-surface waves. Submarines don't need the pointy bit as they stay below the surface.
Not generally military vessels but on large hauliers, where fuel efficiency is god
@@James-mb3je Pretty much all newer military vessels feature bulbous bows, which also act as a good housing for the SONAR arrays. Some of the older frigates like Oliver Hazard Perry class don't but the newer ones such as Arleigh Burke all do, certainly the larger ships such as cruisers and carriers all have bulbous bows.
@@lachyt5247 Doesn't even have to be new warships. The RN has bulbous bows on the Type 23 frigate which dates to the Cold War
"Why are submarines not shaped like fish?" Me, an intellectual: "So they wouldn't get eaten. After all... there's always a bigger fish."
I knew a man who always said that
@@Obi_Wan_Kenobi_027 hahahahaaa
I am glad some people are like me
Theres always a bigger submarine
@@mariobosnjak99 Or a bigger squid
"The curvier the better" I see you are a man of culture
*I see you are a man
@@hullukana214 ?
@@piger0821 he's implying that every man thinks like that, not only a man of culture :)
@@yasinarslantas5412 👌
@@hullukana214 *of culture
Sonar Tech Veteran US Navy here. Modern US military subs bows (nose also known as the sonar dome) is not made of metal. It is made of GRP (Glass Reinforced Plastic) and the compartment the sonar sphere is housed in gets flooded due to water being an excellent sound conductor. Also the GRP nose is less prone to vibration and better resists the pressure changes when depth is adjusted. Another benefit is weight and cost reduction. There is also the fact that if the sonar compartment wasn't flooded the GRP dome would be crushed at a depth of approx. 500 feet.
...and there would be sonar reflections against the hull itlsef actually. Like in radar technology : you wouldn't like to have a metallic nose ^^
interesting. I never knew that. How does the sonar withstand the degrading effects of salt water?
@@jasonhutter7534 A lot of corrosion resistant materials are used in the construct. Plus the big one constant maintenance and equipment replacement. Think of the sonar sphere as just a massive sound array with multiple smaller transducers and hydrophones. Transducers are used to listen and broadcast sound. Hydrophones only listen. A simple way to look at is compare it to heat shielding tiles on spacecraft for dealing with re-entry friction. They don't last long under the stress they endure and must be changed frequently. Our sonar system is not immune to the corrosive effects of salt water but we've learned a lot over the past century of how to make them more resilient efficient sensitive and extremely precise. Navy sonar arrays are basically just really specialized sound systems for the medium (water) they are used in. If you look into sound technicians for major AV or audio events a lot of the same tech is employed just specialized for the role it is used in. Though my tour ended in 03 and my boat is in decommission process now the new Virgina class has tech that makes the Los Angeles class look like an old Norwall or even Gato class in comparison. From what I understand the Virginia class is the F-22 of the modern US Submarine Fleet.
Are you sure that information should be disclosed and give clues to foreign navies?
@@Dude408f I've seen this and much more detailed information on public display in articles 3-D breakdowns and documentaries since 07. Besides if you think foreign "Navies" haven't figured out 50 year old Soviet Era Tech then you are a fool. Oh and nice try concealing yourself bot.
The USS Albacore was very much shaped like a fish. It was at home underwater, on the surface it handled like a pig. It was a true submersible where previous subs were surface craft that could go underwater.
I read Albator
USS Albacore can be found at your local Grocery Store next to the Smoked Oysters.
@@dohc22h Tastes great when mixed with mayo, hot mustard, chopped onions and capers. Damn it, now I'm hungry!
My grandfather was the chef for the albacore
At the time it was designed, it was so revolutionary that the USN classified a lot of it's specifications, especially speed.
This channel is an expert in 'questions I've never had in my life, but now you mention it, I really want to know' content
There's also hydrodynamic reasons for the Astute's conic-eliptical, derived from experience with the Trafalgar and Vanguard class boats. Elliptical is best for putting stuff inside, conic is best for efficiency. The "Sperm whale" shape on Astute is seeking an optimum middle ground, while taking advantage of easier fabrication which permits the use of thicker, less curved, hull plates on the bow, which increases overall hull strength and diving depth.
Thank you Tom Clancy
Can you doumb this down
The Astute is shaped the way it is to redirect active sonar and generate a lower energy echo (think underwater sound stealth). It is not shaped that way to decrease manufacturing costs. Don't know where the video guy got that idea, but it's not cheaper to generate the British geometry.
@@JM-nt5fm Correct, the shape of the nose has nothing to do with ease of fabrication. The nose is a free flood area and doesn't require anything even remotely close to the strength of the pressure hull.
@@JM-nt5fm thanks guys
Not even once have you mentioned whales, especially a sperm whale which was the main inspiration for bulbous noses. "It's not the fast small-to-medium sized fishes we should look at, but the deep sea giants." It was the sperm whale. Then it turned out to be convenient for various sonars etc, but the main idea was to make submarine fast undewater as a huge whale - the hydrodynamic is different for a huge bulky object than for a small slim one.
It's purely amazing that they developed these designs without computers and flow simulation software. That's some solid engineering knowledge.
the question that I have been wanting to know the answer to my entire life
You shall wait no more!
@@NotWhatYouThink great video as always!
@@NotWhatYouThink Turn off the ability to post links in comments and most of these bot posts disappear.
@Tony Rule That's a great idea. Didn't know about that option. Done!
@@NotWhatYouThink I'm not ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ even a pretty face.
That ending was awesome
Top notch - like, oh btw spherical sonars appear in nature
Well having a fish submarine would be nice though
The quality and thoroughness of your videos and the topics are unmatchable! It’s wild I found your channel and videos because of a short when everything was shut down and quarantined.. still learning every day from your videos much love and respec feller 💯
Oh thanks man! You’re very kind.
At 6:12 “generally the curvier then better and if you ask me that goes beyond submarines” My favorite part of the video
Brilliant. Especially the final image. Well done!
I'm guessing, before watching, it has something to do with pressure which fish don't have to worry about as they're not hollow and full of an easily compressible substance.
before watching, i agree, fish have pointy edges which has a lot of pressure that can be put on them while subs distribute the pressure everywhere with a circular hull
Same thought.
submarines aren't made of fish flesh and meat?
Watch. Don't guess
I heard the whistle at 6:14ish…. Already a great video but had to smash both the like and subscribe buttons! Editing/Production that made me smile. Thanks for another great vid NWYT!
Excellent video, with great analysis and presentation. Many thanks.
The sea animal with the sonar is actually a mammal not a fish :)
Research was carried out by the US Navy to look at which was the best, most efficient shape for a submarine. They looked at various sea creatures with many thinking it would be the shark or the dolphin which would be the best. It turned that the best shape for traveling underwater was that of the penguin. And if you've ever seen penguins underwater then you would probably agree. The problem with the Comet was not the windows. It was the way they made the holes for the rivets. Like many aircraft up to that time the holes were punched through. The problem was this caused microfractures in the fuselage skin. Not a problem with an unpressurised aircraft but with a pressurised body this caused the fractures to grow until they reached the window when it popped like a balloon. The solution was simple. The holes were drilled as this did not stress the skin.
The problem with the Comet was very much *also* the windows. It wasn't the only one, the riveting technique also being one, but it certainly was one.
I had always heard that the problem on the Comet was that the windows were square with 90 degree corners, where stress was concentrated and cracks started due to metal fatigue. The second version of the comet and all other passenger jets had curved windows without corners after that.
@@mnxs thanks. I meant to write not just the windows.
Very informative with excellent narration. Thank you.
Highly informative and very well narrated. I liked the reference to curves! And the ending was very clever. Excellent video, well done.
Glad you enjoyed it!
2:12 That's the Baltimore Aquarium, with Federal Hill in the background. That's not far from Ft. McHenry. That's near where the Start Spangled Banner was written.😉
These large, cylindrical, smooth, long, intimidating, ships, make me feel very inadequate. I have to keep reminding myself that it is not the size that matters.
We got sad news for you ... But it's NWYT!
Sad
@@sierreno8217 Hey, it's not the size of the ship that matters, it is the motion of the ocean that stimulates more lotion!
I've only seen this channel in shorts for almost a year now, now that I finally see a full length video I think they deserve the sub
I thouroughly enjoyed this, simple and effective explanations, Thank you so much!
Fun fact: The USS Nautilus is now a museum ship in Groton, Connecticut. If you live in the area and enjoy history, i highly suggest checking it out. Admission fees are low i believe. Only problem is claustrophobia. If your tall you'll hit your head at least twice.
"The curvier the better, and if you ask me that goes beyond submarines" what a legend
what a misogynyst. will you guys stop congratulating yourselves whenever you sexualize women
@@cristinaaugegiribet1236 Shut up, respectfully.
Excellent video. Very interesting, informative and worthwhile video.
This is really good stuff and beyond well done 👏!!!👍👌
I think being on a submarine at wartime is the last job I'd want in the military
I can concur with this, it freaking sucks
I’m general, it’s better to be _in_ the submarine than on it. Props to our submariners who serve. 👍
@@TamagoHead nice to meet you general I'm casey
@@Americanspy-hn2kw I don’t subject my private parts to corporal punishment. It leads to major problems, General mayhem and corny colonels of truth.
Where/what is that beached/buried submarine seen at 0:30? Any info about it would be interesting!
I think it isn't a complete submarine, it should be only the sail of the k-19. While the hull is a fake one made of concrete in order to sustain the turret.
@@lorenzostoia9889 there is no "turret" on submarines
@@DankNoodles420 I'm sorry the right word is "sail". I just corrected it.
@@lorenzostoia9889 That's right, we would have also accepted "Conning Tower" as a answer. Thanks for playing! 😜
Ah, that explains it... I was so confused, thinking "Why bury a sub for a display or whatever..."
Great detailed review. Thankyou.
6:16 this is why I love this channel
I was lucky enough to board the USS Nautilus (SSN-571) on one of its final voyages on its way to decommissioning in 1980. It was on its way to Groton, CT and it stopped in the Chesapeake Bay off the US Naval Academy where I was an exchange cadet (from the Air Force Academy) at USNA. I’ll never forget that one of the enlisted crewmembers, when he found out I was Air Force, said that if a war happened, they would have mutinied to not go into battle because being so noisy, they would surely die in a coffin named Nautilus. He gave me an SSN-571 hat which I always felt honored to have. Hanging around Navy people (mostly submarine) most of my Air Force career (as a nuclear weapons guy), the officers I knew said almost all enlisted crews have mutiny on their minds. This despite nuke submarine sailors being some of the most highly trained and educated enlisted people in any service. I guess it’s just one of those cultural things between sailors and officers that we simply did not experience in the USAF. In any case, I was grateful to be able to tour the world’s first nuclear submarine while it was still commissioned. Later, having toured our most modern attack submarines and boomers, I will just say the differences were night and day. Much nicer place to work in a big Trident, 688 or SSN-21 class boat. 🇺🇸
The Nautilus was so noisy that it broke its outer hull due to vibration two years into commission. It was a danger to itself when underway at full speed. It succeeded as a proof of concept and failed hard as an actual service vessel.
Just a correction: evolution doesn't select for the "perfect" traits. It selects for traits that are good enough to allow reproduction. A great example is cetaceans evolved to collapse one of their lungs during a deep dive, reducing (but not eliminating) the damage from the bends.
Adjustment to a correction: Evolution doesn't even necessarily select good enough because of sexual selection. It can favour anatomical structures that are plainly detrimental for survival, yet it's still a necessary burden to carry to be selected for breeding.
Correction to the adjustment of the correction: evolution doesn’t select.
@@NotWhatYouThink It doesn't "select" in the sense of some unknown, unseen force choosing which creature lives or dies. The "selection" in this case is just the sample of the population who get to fuck and pass their genes on.
Nature (especially not evolution since technically it would be natural selection anyway) didn't selection for anything. It was intelligently selected by an intelligent designer.
@@morganfreeman1906 lmao if you look at evolution at all it most definitely is not intelligently designed and if it is its a shitty design
Wow, your last point (the shape of the beluga whale being an advantage, or at least a necessity/ optimization) was really well choosen. Thank you for this well prepared education
You failed to surprise me. It was what I expected. Ha! Take that! XD
You should be used to it by now 😉
I thank you for your serves to the youtube education community 🙏 I hope you continue to keep educating us for many more years
Because our propulsion systems don’t mimic nature, so it would not be feasible to emulate our ships like nature.
If you watched the video you'd find out it doesn't have anything to do with the propulsion system.
@@Norsilca He was probably just trying to make an educated guess like a bunch of other comments have been doing before watching the video.
I love your long form videos
Another great video
During WW2 Krup designed a round nose sub called the experimental type 17, V 80. A very interesting submarine.
The Type XXI was the production version, it was the first military submarine to have a streamlined hydrodynamic hull.
As a former crewman onboard the USS Bonefish, I'm very dismayed that you completely omitted the Barbel Class of submarines, built in the mid 50s that were diesel powered yet had the round ("ballistic" or "hemispherical") bows. Much quieter than any nuclear powered submarines at the time, they were a truly fearsome weapon, that you failed to mention at all.
And you failed to mention the 30 plus classes that there actually are so how about you make a better video?
@@Postnghost1234 answering a question with a question is the sign of a person without an answer. If this was a video that was supposed to mention every single submarine ever built then your question may have merit. But it doesn't.
@@tauron1 It was clearly sarcasm. Didn't your bow shape have enough room for a sarcasm detector? Unless you want to make a video an hour long, you can only pick very limited examples. No matter what choices you make, someone's going to ask why this or that wasn't selected.
@@herrakaarme true enough
@@tauron1 what’s 3?
Great presentation thank you sir
Surprisingly decent video. I usually dislike channels like this because they oversimplify everything and just read wikipedia. Good work.
Two words: sonar array. Or if you prefer hydrophone array. Modern sonar arrays in the bow of a sub a basicalluy spherical in shape - a big sphere covered in micophones and transducers. Re Astute class, I believe the overall somewhat faceted hull shape of the Astute class is intended to increase stealth against active sonar which is commonly used by Russian subs and whose use is becoming more prevalent as modern subs are soooooo quiet. So I wouldn'tbe surprised if the Astute class bow was also influenced by stealth factors.
4:57 Diesel boats are USUALLY more quiet than nuke subs already lol. (Because they just switch to battery to power the shaft as opposed to having the reactor/engine running)
Don't you think nuclear submarines also have batteries?
When you consider nuclear subs have to mitigate the noise from the high pressure steam and spinning a turban it's not hard to imagine a nuke sub being noisier than an electric one.
@@kevinTG554 Nuclear reactors aren't just switched off like a lightbulb lmao
Great video!!!
Thanks, that was very interesting
Some fish are teardrop shape e.g. tuna. The yellow model fish in the video is a tuna, which is a pelagic (open water) predator, like a submarine. For a predatory fish it is advantageous to have it's mouth right up at the front as this is more effective for grabbing prey, and maybe the jaws being a bit pointy accentuates this.
Yes, fish with the mouth in back had to swim backwards and couldn't see where they were going.
Honestly stealth takes precedence over speed. Then structural integrity and space. Speed is still important but being efficient is not since theoretically they could have all the power in the world. A cool topic would be how much attention is paid to the "skin" or paint. I know smooth shapes aren't always the best depending on what you want. An example is a golf ball! Or shark skin improving their effectiveness.
imagine a conical shaped stealth submarine I feel like it would be hard to pick up on sonar since the sonar would reflect, just like radar and stealth aircraft. However it would be difficult to fit a decent sonar in a conical shaped bow. What do you guys think?
Not at all in practice. Passive Sonar, the thing most effected by stuff like flow noise, isn't bothered, because it's a receive only system. You aren't sending anything out, only listening. If hit by active Sonar, it wouldn't matter either. Active Sonar is pretty much never used by subs, inky the things hunting them. Those things tend to be above them by a few hundred feet, so any shape change done to the bow would be completely ignored due to the rest of the subs body.
When talking stealth in submarines, the noise from water/vibration on the hull is almost nothing at this point. The major factor in the way submarines are detected passively through noise transmitted to the hull by operating equipment inducing vibrations into the hull. But even now, the range by which you can pick these up is pretty extreme nowadays and can usually only be detected by a sonar platform that is quiet enough to hear them over it's own noise... in other words, other submarines.
It’s not what you think is my new phrase…. And I love it that this channel keeps making re-Think what I was first thinking… A big salute and thanks to you good sir for keeping me thinking …it’s not what you think 🤔
Excellent, relevant file-footage. Much of the underwater stuff was the real deal, not model or CGI work. Excellent stuff on display here.
Wait a sec... you spent time talking about the shape of the pressure hull when discussing hemispheric and elliptical bows but then rightly said that those shapes are outside the pressure hull. Resistance to crushing has no bearing on the shape of the outer hull.
It's almost like he doesn't know much about submarines, and is just piecing together information he's read......Oh wait...
Pointy is Scary, Round isn't Scary - Admiral General Aladeen-
6:32 'after one fatal disaster' - the Comet crashed twice before being permanently grounded. Still a subscribed fan!
6:12 you definitely are a mind reader!!! I was just thinking curvier, and you illustrated one generously 🤣
VERY interesting. Thank you. Here's one for you: how is the tube containing the periscope sealed when the boat (subs are called "boats") is submerged?
the tube is sealed thats how
Newer ones use fibre optics so it doesn’t have to go through the bull
The best preserved U-Boat in the world is in a museum here in Chicago. Part of the exhibit is a real periscope which goes up thru the roof so you can look around outside..
East central high school?
Hales Franciscan
I think it has more to do with pressure than hydrodynamics a spherical shape can handle pressure better than a square and besides a square would create more drag
The main ballast tanks, which are outside of the pressure hull, are at both ends of a submarine. They could shape it however they like.
Lol, you should look at the shape of the asds mini sub. The designers said “square shape go brrrr!”.
This was amazing
great vid my friend
Its important to note for viewers that the USS Albacore experimental sub featured in this video is not the same USS Albacore of World War II fame. Seems obvious but sometimes shipnames can be confusing.
Why aren't submarines shaped like fish? I suppose because they have rather different innards and the exterior contains the interior and form follows function and the function of containing different guts leads to different exteriors.
Just watch the video, then you don't have to guess.
4:02 I went to the USS Albacore museum and got to walk around inside it, seeing it's engines and the crew's sleeping places was fun.
Excellent! Thanks!
3:45 Nautilus was built and now stands as a museum in my city! New London CT. (Groton on the other river bank.) It’s crazy to see my city in the early 50’s especially when it’s flying a 48 star flag! My grandfather helped build it too! He started as a laborer and worked his way up to “The Chief of Nuclear Design” He took me to a launch, I wish I knew what ship it was. It would be neat to know where it is now.
I worked at EB in 1976. I have been in a few operational submarines as my brother was a Sonar Chief. I even had a 2am breakfast in the Chiefs mess on his Sub when we met up in Spain.
I think you should have shown the similarities of the orca whale to the bow. They are some of the fastest underwater species.
USS Requin SSN - 481 I was recently in the submarine, and was able to see everything, including the torpedoes it shot! I also got a hat from the Carnegie science Center in Pitt., PA.
i'm gonna watch this video while i make tea
The real question is why don’t fish have engines 🤔
1. Speed underwater rather than on the surface. 2. Sound produced due to ship like bow. 3. Structural strength to handle pressure. 4. Space & arrangement inside the bow - sonar & tubes.
Fascinating video! The last shot of a Beluga whale (I think) was great. If I would improve one thing, it would be using zero as the lower y-axis limit for the various plots: without looking closely at the numbers or the y-axis values, the plots give an exaggerated impression of relative differences between the various shapes.
We’ll try to remember that. Thx!
12:05 anyone know where I can find a source on the Astute whole shaped being a result of budget concerns/cost-savings? I have never heard this before, and while the UK defence budget is of course considerably smaller than the US, I have never heard them to skimp on their top-level assets for any reason.
video starts at 5:40
What about shaping submarines like the deep sea creatures? Everything is been inspired by nature; why not.
Luv ur content
Thanks man! Glad you enjoyed it.
I wish we would put all that creativity and technical innovation into things that aren’t weapons.
Maybe fish are still evolving. And one day they will end up looking like subs
with torpedoes
A beluga isn't a fisch! It is a wale and wales are mammals!!
*whale*
Aren't animals that swim, lives under water, and uses fins to maneuver can be called fish?
@@rizalardiansyah4486 no, fish does have gills.
You are correct, but you know what we meant 😉
@@NotWhatYouThink yeah, that ending was perfect. Good job, great video!
The albacore museum is in my home town, you get to walk around inside it, it's really amazing how small everything was.
Good video. Can anyone tell please what is in between pressure hull and light hull? Thanks.
I guess if there was submarine races, than hydraulic flows would be more important than solid structure and then again there’s a shark resemblance!
Thing is, older submarines just like ships still had rounded tips underwater, you need a sharp tip above water to cut through the waves but a rounded tip for traveling underwater. Plus all the other reasons listed of course
USS Albacore is on Display near the coast here in NH. It’s a great free-roam tour!
Woohh... I didn't know the sonar looks like that. Cool.
Thought it was cylindrical because of pressure in deep depth
It is.
Another point i think is good that fishes and submarine are made of different materials, fishes are more flexible unlike steel made submarines Its just my guess
You made a very good video
Take a BOW for this video..it was really good
:/
I say: noise. Edit: Yes! Is what I thought... Ok it was a broad guess. I pretty much thought about noise, and during video I considered pressure. Since those are the main concerns in a sub (noise and pressure) it is not hard to be what you think.
You guys can skip to 5:50
Oh thanks man! 👍🏼
that last line was such a clear ooooooh moment
A fun history and engineering lesson wow noic
The bow is also called the "cone" non engineering folks who work in the front part of a sub are called "coners" by their "nuc" brethren.
For proper usage, I believe there's an adjective that's supposed to be placed in front of those terms.
The shape also makes sense because submarines don't need a mouth, submarines are probably best comparable to sperm whales which have relatively smaller mouths on the bottom.
I always love how much submarines (or rather all things related to the military) have evolved in such a short amount of time. Especially the shape and technology
I am designing a new boat. This answered all my questions exactly. Thank you.