Try Rocket Money for free: rocketmoney.com/jmcrofts #RocketMoney #personalfinance
Join our Discord server! / discord
Patreon: / jmcrofts
Twitter: / crofts
#jmcrofts
0:00 intro
1:51 The Origin
4:51 The Top Tier Gief Era
10:30 The Missing Era
14:56 is it back in 6??
16:50 theories why it's gone
19:30 so was it a mistake?
Try Rocket Money for free: rocketmoney.com/jmcrofts #RocketMoney #personalfinance
Still waiting for Ed combo trials
Hey @jmcrofts ! You should have Siberian Lab on a vid to discuss the green hand and other Zangief quirks. He is a great Gief player that’s unknown but big in the SF6 geif tech community
Green Hand has nothing to do with Gief as a wrestler. It's just how his ki manifest itself. This is like asking what Somersault Kick have to do with an Air Force Officer.
I wish he hadn’t lost it. It made snake eyes gameplay extremely exciting to watch. Since then I have never called zangief exciting at all. Also snake eyes in my opinion was never able to capture the same excitement in his gameplay with any other character.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnah
It's implied in World Tour that after all his training he has kind of figured out ki like other characters. Meaning he could theoretically throw a projectile but it's just not his style.
All of gief's dialogues in SF6 are so wholesome, they just made me love the character more.
They’ve gotta give zangief a hadouken
I'd love to see a green move for zangief if they ever add moves to sf6 pipe dream i suppose
It'd be so awesome if zangief had a spark bolt like projectile like target from BlazBlue.
@@bastianrhone9390 they should give him a green hadouken instead of green hand since the drive system kinda does what the green hand do
Street Fighter: The Movie's EX Green Hand for Zangief can actually reverse opponents fireballs on them which was pretty neat.
So I think SF: The Movie's Zangief was the best. "Quick!.... Change the channel!" ;)
I was about to say that's what they should've done for gief in SF6
Give Zangief Potemkin's F.D.B. !
That’d be neat in SF6 even if they don’t have green hand i could see that as a solid buff for the ex lariat or even tundra storm lol
I can believe Zangief reflecting fireballs with a flick.
I think a missed opportunity for Capcom was having his Drive Impact animation not be the green hand animation. I feel like that would've been a good middle ground for the character.
that would be pretty cool actually
the headsplitter he does for his DI is pretty cool tho
@@nicorobin7762I agree, all the wrestling moves they gave him make him so cool
@whiskey do you mean his drive RUSH animation? It is not only green but it is forward advancing...
@@michaelmccoy1794 I meant Drive Impact, Drive Rush isnt an attack so it wouldnt make sense to give it that animation.
If I remember right, wasn't it explained briefly at some point that green hand as a technique was literally born from his hatred of others constantly throwing projectiles at him? Like, the fire was literally his burning hatred of zoning.
cool theory
That’s actually true. The Alpha series had some manga volumes published in the 90s. At one point Zangief states that he hates projectiles and just slaps a hadoken away. He created the technique out of frustration.
@@bulb9970 That's based af. But then...lore wise, did he just stop hating projectiles in Street Fighter 6? I mean, it clearly says in his bio that he does, but then like, why would he give up the move.
@@bulb9970 I'll check this on SF Alpha and Sakura Ganbaru.
@DrSwazz maybe he thought he was over relying on it and thought it was stunting his growth as a fighter to not be able to deal with a form of fighting he hated in any other way.
19:25 Back in the day when Street Fighter IV was new, me and my buddy always played it at his place after school. One day, during a heated fight, he came up with the name "Fist of Chernobyl". We called it that ever since.
That's way cooler than "Banishing Flat". Props to your friend!
The fact it isn’t called that is a huge oversight for them. OF COURSE it should be called that. I couldn’t have come up “the name For it” but Fist of Chernobyl is obviously what it should be called
The flame comes from him sweating vodka, and slapping the air so hard it ignites.
The only correct answer in this comment section.
Don't worry. Three years down the line when we get the "final" season of DLC for SF6, they'll do a character movelist update and add back Green Hand and also give us Aerial Tundra Storm so Geif can counter kicks in the air and go from A tier to X tier and banned from tournaments.
Aerial Tundra Storm 😂😂😂
Ed completely immune to Tundra Storm in 6.
Funnily enough Vega was also immune because of the angle of his kicks
He gave up his kicks in complete fear of tundra storm
Lmfao I never thought of that, imagine having an actually fully useless move because of a matchup
@@user-wy1et9dk9wHave you heard about reflects against characters with no projectiles?
@@Super121830 in street fighter 6? No.
I thought they removed green hand because it wasn't thenatically appropiate, to which I wondered "why didn't they make it a blur/distortion effect instead?
Yeah, like a slap so hard it generates heat or something
It does feel out of place for his character.. What Capcom should have did was make it out of a slap or a slap chop since it fits his pro wrestler personality..
Dang, they gave Zangief a White Wild Assault before it was invented, crazy.
Capcom should now take a lesson from Arc System Works and give Zangief a jetpack to get in on his opponent.
This is why I modernity
@@glacierwolf2155Mech Zangief becomes their own character.
@@Sem-ifinalist Zangief with Garuda Impact
To explain the reason for Zangief having green energy on his hand, capcom can say storywise, Zangief saw it fit to learn how to use his inner spirit energy to increase his physical power. In Zangief understanding, he comes to rationalize that this energy is from within himself and not some cheap trick. The reason he only has the energy on one attack is because he is still a beginner at using energy and is in no hurry to progress his skill using it.
So you're saying we'll get a green SPD in Street Fighter 10?
I miss the “Green Hand”. I thought it was a fun spacing tool to use & I’m not even a Zangief Main.. SFlV was so good. Miss those days
SFIV with rollback would be so hugely insane
I think people are just afraid to make zangief a fire bender again Or... whatever green hand is supposed to be
Green Hand is the burn from pumping iron
@@WeedSmoker69idc that's Canon for me now 😂
Green hand is basically a Ki Ass slap
green hand is a ki move that he created because he hated projectiles
I think that was the SFIV team's mistake tbh, I always interpreted the old green hand sprites as more of a glow
The lore was he learned it to beat fireballs in the comic. He didn't understand Ki but through training he learned away to block it.
Honestly, my only real confusion is why it isn't red energy for a guy nicknamed Red Cyclone. I actually like that Zangief would use those kinds of techniques exclusively to counter fireballs, it feels very in character and I'd love to see it return in some way.
Are there any projectile reflecting moves in SF doesn’t the scarf lady have one?? Maybe keep green hand’s awkward qualities, outside of unsafe on hit I generally think that is a mistake, but anyway it actually throwing them back could be cool. YOU try getting through these then 😂
scarf lady lol
It's because Zangief is obviously colourblind.
The green hand animation in the alpha series looked so nice.
Poetically, Tundra Storm was initially DP+P in SFV, but they changed it to DP+PP because players kept getting it accidentally XD
Yeah imagine trying to do SPD and getting that ass animation where you stand like an idiot ‘please hit me’ written on you and then get crush countered to death. Not fun.
what is dp+p
@@pleasedieparaForward, Down, Down+Forward, Punch. So, exactly the same input as Ryu's Dragon Punch(DP). It was later changed to require 2 separate punch inputs, because players kept accidentally getting Tundra Storm instead of something like Spinning Piledriver(SPD). SF6 changed the input to Down, Down+Kick.
@@SyRose901 oh so just a dp, i know what a dp motion is but i was confused bc they said dp+p which would imply you do dp and then press a second punch button after dp but ty
@@SyRose901 And only heavy kick specifically to further reduce accidentals.
Also, a super move I wish Zangief had in every game but only has in Pocket Fighter is the russian dance super kick attack. It proper suits his character.
Can you imagine? A chip kill option that can double as corner carry on hit?
@@HellecticMojo Street Fighter Maker is now overdue Capcom. Make it happen! I don't want to have to resort to Mugen.
Gief also had a similar super where he does consecutive stomping kicks in EX. And I think the cossack dance super was also in SvC MotM.
@@Wolfedge75whadd're you? Some kinda fightin game encyclopedias? Nah, I love ya. Keep it up.
Ultra SF4 Omega Mode Zangief doesn't have it?
Quick little extra with SF2: The "Banishing/Vanishing Flat" had an important use in his toolkit. Block forcing. As a grappler, having people walk back out of his range was annoying. But anyone just holding back would get locked in block if he did it with proper spacing, putting them right in SPD range. Being able to make forward progress while locking someone in place, and it be basically invisible giving the input, if they aren't jumping as a grapler is scary. And when he's in, usually unless they have a good 'get off me' move, it's SPD city to KO. And if spaced with a zoner to catch their fireball as it coming out but not hit them? Why at high level you will see it used almost exclusively as a move that whifs if used, and spaced to do so. Or after knockdown.
Honestly your third idea for why they got rid of it was one ive been thinking on for a while. Zangiefs ascetic of compensating for a lack of "magic" with rigorous effort and training is way more interesting to me than him just also being magic. Besides the jumping 20+ feet while holding another person thing, zangiefs more """"Grounded""""" than everyone shooting fire, ki, or sonic booms, and I feel him fighting against the magic marital artists with nothing but blood sweat and tears fits with the grappler stuggle to get in in neutral. Despite being out of everyones weight and height class, Zangief always feels like the underdog due to the magic factor and I think thats way more interesting than him also having a weird glowing magic hand.
So what you're saying is Zangief needs a projectile, but that projectile needs to be lighting and throwing molotovs.
@@Invariel respectfully, no!!!!!!
He should have 2 projectiles he can throw a round, and its just throwing his shoes
@@dojo45789TRUE yes this is a great idea
@@WrathMiltenimagine what if zangeif has metal chair projectiles
Lariat sucks against fireballs in SF6 because it lacks much horizontal movement. You pretty have to be at point blank range.
Yea I thought his examples were bad. Green hand is needed
Why is it for three games in a row, Gief always lacks a consistent combo ender that doesn't require using meter in the first version of every game?
Not sure what you mean, Lariat is a perfectly good combo ender?
@@ominousparallel3854 Lariat is extremely inconsitent and prone to whiffing or getting blocked.
Yeah, many situations require you to EX Lariat in order to combo. It can be quite risky to try without meter, unless your spacing is 100% iron clad.
@@ominousparallel3854 Lariat is extremely prone to whiffing or dropping like the other comments say. If you aren't point blank then likely you will whiff Lariat in the opponent's face and die.
I always felt that Zangief did have the capacity for having KI (or CHI) energy and that's what you see in the green hand, just not on the level of ryu, ken and chunli, he could just create a bit but not enough to send it flying in a fireball
I believe also having it come out as fire was considered an "imperfect" use of it, as it would be more like "plasma" if the energy is projected correctly. Mans said "Nah, burning hand is good enough" and just gives em the C H O P.
That's always how I saw it too
I prefer him not using any kind of energy power. There are already many chars doing that. And there are other heavy grapplers who dont need that, like Hugo.
@@carlosaugusto9821 he needed some Ki energy of his own if he was to cancel KI fireballs
@@carlosaugusto9821 to be fair, the reason Hugo doesn't need it is because he's the size of a building and has a smokin' hot babe in his corner.
I remember when SSF2T came out and added the green hand. I read about it in GamePro magazine. They mostly sold it as an anti-fireball move. I could tell just from reading the magazine that it wasn't any good. Amazing that all these years later, it's still being talked about.
Damn I wasnt even born by several years. I didnt know what Street Fighter Was till 4 was announced in 2007.
@@missquake it’s ok. I’m just old. You’re probably way better at fighting games than I am. I can barely even do a fireball reliably.
it was very good in sf4, and allowed him to safely close distance in that game.
My take is that they should give him a costume in SF6 that's exactly the same as his default, but he's painted his one hand green. Just to dig the knife a little deeper.
I used to main Geif in SF4, and I miss that green hand so very much. One thing I loved to do was to space myself nicely and use the LP green hand and whiff hitting the opponent, and then command throw. It was so hard to react in time for the LP version.
Tundra Storm is actually useful in a very specific situation in SF6. It can be used against a drive impact that's kicked based and it will counter it (like Juri's DI as an example). Still a useless move for the most part but it's something to keep in mind if you're burned out, pushed into a corner, and you know the DI is coming.
i think cammy DI as well but dont remember
Tundra Storm is such a specific move to a specific situation it feels like it was put in just to troll gief players.
@@EdgeO419apparently they put it in cuz they liked dragon screws, but i guess they didnt care bout PR or making it good when they programmed it, so it definitely comes off as a troll
As someone who loves grapplers and often mains them I wear... **When grapplers get even the slightest sort of advantage or even upgrade even if everyone else gets one or if it's like Zangief being able to Drive Rush like everyone else in SF6** Everyone else: "OH NOOOO!! YOU CAN'T DO THIS! THEY'LL BECOME BROKEN!!"
The cucked SF grappler vs the chad KoF grappler
Tundra Storm is just exaggerated version of the Dragon Screw lol
And don't get me wrong, the Dragon Screw Leg Whip is an incredible wrestling move, one of my favorites (Specifically Hiroshi Tanahashi's Dragon Screw, but like Tazz, I digress). The issue is a specific counter move is just a horrible thing to try and implement in a fighting game. If the Tundra Storm had like 3 different versions, a punch counter into an arm drag that switches sides, the dragon screw as a kick counter that deals more damage, and a low counter into a Knee breaker that leaves the opponent close, then it might see some use. But as it stands its just such a niche move that doesn't really do anything for Gief and his gameplan.
Green hand is not green fire - it is GREEN AURA STINK from when he reaches back and touches his butt and then slaps you with it
Somewhat weirded out you didn't mention banishing flat in Alpha/Zero games, SF4 is definitely inspired by that version and the possibilities in alpha 2/3 were much better than in turbo (not to mention the switch at least in A3 to a shoryuken input
it's depends of the ISM's system you pick. In X-ISM, the imput it's the same than in Super Turbo.
SFIV Zangief was my favorite Zangief and green hand was a big part of that. Ignoring why he's able to conjure green flames, it was a superb gap closer made watching matches with him much more intense instead of just watching him zoned and footsied for ages. I know that's by design as grapplers have limited range/mobility to balance them out, but that kick-counter move they gave him in SFV was an insult.
Pretty much everything they did with 5 was an insult, I don't often hope people are fired but after SF5 Capcom probably needed to clean house.
I would like to see more about the Alpha series, SFA3 is my favourite SF.
Gief being recast almost as a Sports Entertainment wrestler is really funny, and makes him more likeable lol. He's the Johnny Cage of SF
Considering he was dancing with Gorbachev, he already felt a little on par with wrestling stereotypes 😅
Literally nothing in common with Johnny Cage lmao
I have a proposition for Capcom, In exchange for Green Hand, give him something cool like a hit grab (because Manon and Ed are the only 2 characters with a hit grab Ed's Psycho Flicker and Manon's spin) or another special that can link from lights like a rolling elbow or something. Edit: Why is there an exchange in the replies about my profile picture, it's a Luxray and it isn't a furry picture. Also this comment was for fun and not an actual proposition but it would be cool if this did become an actual thought in some player's heads and Capcom if this does become a thought.
We do not negotiate with furry profile pictures.
@@TheEvilCheesecakeHmm, salty
@@TheEvilCheesecake bruh its 2024, develop a personality
@@TheEvilCheesecakeThat’s not even an anthro Pokémon 😭
@@mainstreetmafia6605 paying someone to draw a fake animal with stupid colours is not a personality.
I would normally say yes but other characters through the games have been so good when he was just mid or actually bad. If I’m correct he was only really good in one mainline SF game. So I think he deserves to have it.
Unrelated: Damn the step up to 6 for Character Models is impressive.
True, but that's also relative to 5 which were notoriously horrible. But you are right, the models are fantastic in 6.
yeah only a few characters/skins looked good in 5. still missing all the skin diversity
@@longschlongjohnson6470 True. They did smaller releases of costumes then instead of trying to do one for each of the launch characters all at once in 6.
Yeah, skins in 5 are bad but in 6 are the worst
@@nikosalexopoulos6542 absolutely false.
I think the Vanishing Flap is perfectly in-character as a technique he picked up specifically to counter projectiles.
Banishing flat
V/B has a sort of R/L situation, at times, and I think the same might be the case for P and T ().
I might have been because Gief was supposed to be a normal guy with no powers other than he's really strong. SF has always had the guy with no powers but he is still strong archetype like Balrog, Dudley, Alex, Jamie, Luke, (In the lore Luke has no actual powers, he can punch the air really hard and it makes a shockwave) and Laura (in the lore, she only rubs her hair to get the electricity) And seeing Gief just having a power to make a green flame appear on his hand with no story whatsoever was kind of out of place with the SF story and the green hand doesn't make one story appearance in any of the games, I think that Capcom had to unless in this game, they bring some lore to back the hand up if they do give it to him in Season 2.
He does apparently have lore in it in the series! Apparently, it's a manifestation of his hatred for projectiles!
@@LloydTheZephyrian Oh ok, cool, Why did they take it then!?
@@zkosmith1662 I mean, he seems a lot more chill in SF6, so...
@@LloydTheZephyrian what about V?
@@zkosmith1662 Got me there.
As someone who's pretty new to fighting games and wasn't there having you cover these things is always interesting.
Yo JM im so glad you’re still around dude, I remember watching both you and doto on the early days of fighterZ, yall grew big LOVE TO SEE IT
When Geif was first announced in SF6, before fully understanding the drive rush mechanic, i thought they would somehow connect green hand to the "green" drive rush.
LOVE the length, really informative, looking forward to more :)
It's possible that they felt Cyclone Lariat is a more interesting way to punish fireballs on reaction.
I've been waiting for this video for so long, but had no idea which one of you was going to make it 😂
I think Green Hand was a brilliant move. They found a way to reduce a grappler’s weakness and make them a huge threat. People need to fear and respect grapplers.
I feel it shouldn't be a combo ender (That's Lariat's job), but a neutral tool who is not punishable on hit. A powerful poke who goes through Fireballs but nothing more.
honestly i think for future installments his headbutt should become a special move. maybe when he successfully hits a projectile with it he could cancel into a forward dash? or maybe make it a rekka starter with an advancing followup similar to green hand > red focus, but, like, not as stupid lol
Headbutt in SF5 was always able to absorb projectiles even from launch. The change it got was in season 2, doing so would give CA meter.
Not even a grappler main, but I miss seeing yall use green hand. But to balance it yeah.. that's the tough part. Props to @wonderfulwardy for mentioning the movie version. It'd be sick if in a future game they make green hand strictly an EX move, but it doesn't give him the forward movement as much even if he recovers instantly. And just have it so it turns fireballs back, but in a direction like diagonal up or down just to prevent a jump-in or a low follow up.
So like Rose?
@@kaiserbts8007 You know what? That's damn good. Your suggestion would make sense then lorewise why his hand was green doin it. Maybe he copped some tech from Rose to deal with fireballs.
I half want Gief in world tour mode to mention that he gave up using the green hand because he found it an unsportsmanlike technique. He’s definitely the type of person to give up an advantage if he feels it’s unfair to his opponents.
Nah, he has no mercy and feel no remorse 😝
Yo I just love this type of content. Keep it coming.
I always called it ghost hand. Ghost hand good. Bring back ghost hand.
How do you see a big green hand and not call it "green hand"?
Probably too on the nose. Ghost Hand as a description implies a little more thought was put into naming it. I can dig it.
@@titanspirit7238ghoul and undead used to be heavily coded as green until it was slowly morphed into blue.
@@titanspirit7238 It reminded me of the flaming skull ghost enemies from Zelda
Dumbass name lol it's green hand
I have said it before and I'll say it again, I never have played fighting games, I have no desire to playing fighting games and I never will play fighting games but I watch all of your videos, you have a gift in content creation and a very enjoyable and likeable personality, keep up the good work 😀
His green hand should buff his grabs everytime he uses it to catch a projectile and if he has a green hand active he can slap a projectile back at an increased speed and damage.
I just don’t understand why fighting game devs seem to think grapplers can’t be good. “Casuals hate fighting them” but they also hate fighting zoners and JP was clearly not held back. “It’s easier for casuals to play grapplers than zoners.” Is it? Zangief requires 360 motions, the hardest motion input in the game. That’s an instant barrier to entry for all casuals.
Whats weird to me is that grapplers are supposedly part of the holy 4 archetypes, but are treated by devs and players way worse, when in theory and practice, theyre usually worse rushdowns, they both wanna get close for 50/50s but rushdowns are given every tool to do so while grapplers are given almost none Then grapplers just get more dmg off 1 guess but usually have bad oki so no pressure Then rushdowns are often given decent defensive tools when theyre supposedly an offensive archetype But then grapplers have worse neutral, approaching and worse pressure, but then THEYRE the ones who get worse defensive tools overall All cuz they got a high dmg tool thats usually only good for 50/50s, the logic just doesnt add up to me (Not to say all FGs do this but its just too common for me)
Being the hardest input isn’t saying much in a game that’s otherwise just quarter-circles and charge inputs, which are way harder then 360s lol
@@HELLRAISER02 it’s crazy cause grapplers have high health so they’re supposed to be the “tanks” but they have 0 defensive options and get folded in the corner lmao
@@redhood2594 maybe it’s cause I play leverless but ain’t no way charge inputs are harder than 360 and 720
@@theturtleking2454 in platform fighters, especially smash bros, heavies got the same problem, their high weight makes em harder to kill raw, but are often given bad or easily exploitable recoveries, so in practice theyre easier to combo and kill than a lot of lightweights Your corner things so real, its odd how every other main archetype gets SOMETHING, but grapplers get like, a fast grab, ok in some games, a frame 2 command grabs a decent defensive tool, but in street fighter 5 onwards, they nerfed the speed so uh, yeah
As kids (I'm near 40) we use to say that Zangief has the green hand move because he's from Russia and he was exposed to radiations because of Tchenorbyl XD
I'm glad this got a lot of views, this was one of my favorite videos and I've watched it many times at this point
Love these deep dives into mechanics
I think Green Hand could just be turned into a command normal for Forward MP. It removes the issues of having to balance each strength, removes EX Green Hand, removes it being a combo ender, and it allows it to be a safe poke and approaching tool that also destroys fireballs. And honestly yes, I think Green Hand is a weird move. I think the animation without the green plasma would be fine
Love these analysis/breakdown videos for Street Fighter 🐸
“The kicks not horizontal enough!” lol 😂
Give Gief Green Hand
😂😂😂😂
no
BUFF GIEF
Nah
i dont understand why capcom keeps hurting us by putting him in the game
Yeaaah boiiii Glad to see mr jmcrofts catching the sponsor bag, well done good Sir, dedication to your craft pays off!
I think more options is always a good thing, and while I don't play Gief, I wouldn't mind the move returning in some way to give him some spice. I could easily see it as something similar to Honda's clap - a dedicated quick fire-and-forget projectile counter, that sacrifices most other advantages for being reliable, or even just have green hand as a projectile reflect tool. Heck, give it some EX spice and let him do a crazy once-in-a-blue-moon combo with it, like how Honda's hand install works. It'd be something nice and wouldn't upset balance too much!
10:29 going from SF4 to SF5 will never not give me whiplash
I think you mostly nailed why green hand isn't coming back. To add on to it, the issues gief has in sf6 could far more easily be solved by just making his current kit being better. His issues with meterless light confirms could be solved by green hand, but they could also just make lariat bigger/faster moving/faster startup. His issues with oki after common knockdowns could be solved by greenhand but also could be solved by making it so that getting both hits of OD lariat is more consistent since OD lariat gives really good oki if you get both hits. his issues with fireballs could be alleviated with green hand or they could speed up and increase the range of SA2 so reacting with it against fireballs is easier to do. obviously i wouldn't say no to green hand but it seems far easier, effective, and practical just to tweak his current moveset so it works better.
I think his running grab is the real mistake. It's never been good and it eats into his move real-estate for nearly zero benefit.
I disagree in terms of SF6 though cause st.LK into EX Bear Grab exists, and it works quite well. Don't abuse it too much, but also now they're jumping out so... Yee imma do the same move in the air now for the same results lmao.
It basically exists to side switch
@@Choom7 only the close one though, but yeah that too lmao. I never end up using that one, as the side switch from punish DI into cross up body splash into borscht is the only time I'm ever actively able to switch sides lmao.
The green hand is a reference to Chernobyl. It's supposed to be radioactive.
Great video! Well researched, informed, and thorough
In Alpha, Green Hand was actually blue like a hadouken. I think it was just meant to visually convey that it's a special move with properties that can absorb fireballs. In Super Gem Fighter, it was blue, green, and red. They probably ended up sticking with green after that to make it more unique to Zangief, since he hates hadokens/fireballs/et all (the lore reason why he doesn't throw projectiles even though he can do Green Hand), and possibly a reference to radioactivity or Cold War experiments with his USSR background.
Zangief no longer needs green hand, for he has discovered how to make himself green!
The Capcom balance team seems very conscious of that fact that a pure grappler is hard to balance and that the community would hate Zangief being at or near the top of the meta. Giving Gief green hand seems like a nice way out. Gief could improve his mobility and anti-zoning, while still not being a super mobile character. They could then tone down the damage of some of his big graps a bit so you don't risk "Guess for game" in every up close interaction.
I want green hand back. I started with Sf6 Zangief and one day playing sf4 with friends I tried Zangief and when I felt the power of green hand I was salty when I realized it never came back.
Without the green hand, Ono never would've been able to defeat our boy. It played an integral role in a story of true love.
I think it would work if it was specifically a fireball destroyer that lets you get you closer/a movement option but didn’t do much in terms of combos but then again double lariat kinda already does that so its just a cooler looking version
I think an overlooked part of this is that lariat has crappy horizontal range, so green lariat could be useful on non wall combos, and prolly make it do DP dmg
@@HELLRAISER02 Yeah the horizontal distance is exactly the difference. Lariat is good, but you can usually only get a hit or two before the lariat or it will whiff. Green hand allows Zangief to actually hitconfirm his lights and cancel pokes into damage. Drive rush lets him do that in sf6, but you're burning 3 bars every time you want to do a piddly jab combo.
@@doomtron4 a solution could be to eesentially make green hand a sideways DP, so EX is a reversal but cant really anti air, they all knockdown but are death on block, i doubt theyd do this but i think its a cool move they should bring back
I learned green hand from Bear! It should be back! Its like a reach around... Great vid 🥸👍
This move, or its variation, in SFD, deactivate passives from enemies upon hitting. So it is alive yet and really useful there!
Funnily enough, the green hand was introduced in SFEX2 as well, then they took it out in SFEX2+. And then they brought it back again in SFEX3 but as a momentary combos instead of it as a move by itself.
I always forget tundra storm exists even in sf6 I don't see it that much Truly the move of all time
I have an idea for Green Hand in SF6; make the Overdrive version of the Double Lariat end with Green Hand.
Well zangief had so much trouble with projectiles that they had to add a tool for him to get in. Without it zangief has a tough time in matchups. I like it because it balanced him as a character
what i'd love to see is what would happen if gief could either use tundra storm as a normal-ass parry (i.e. blocks any non-projectile strikes and counters) or it still only works on kicks (any normal involving a K button) but he could trigger it during blockstun. one is considerably more disastrous than the other but i'd like a peek at the reality where that's a thing to see how far that affects his match ups
gotta love how in sf6, tundra storm flips the character in 1 frame to make the animation match XD
In 1994, I used to play mostly World Heroes 2 than Street Fighter. So, when SSF2 Turbo was released, I noticed Zangief's Green Hand very similar to Rasputin from World Heroes, who attacks with giant gloomy magic hands, giving him a large range of normal attacks. The fact of both being russian got me to think some theories at the time. :D
I'm not sure if they've ever given a lore reason for it, but I feel like it would make Zangief and Manon a bit too similar in SF6. They brought Manon in to be the character who gets in quick with risky mixups and then makes you guess strike/throw and I think green fist would end up being very similar to Manon's 214HK
Maybe the origin of the green hand -was the friends we made along the way- was the idea of "slapping" a fireball. Because making a unique effect for deflecting each fireball in the game would be more work, they put on Zangief instead. Fireballs usually aren't green, so that makes more obvious something happened to it, and thus, green hand was born. Personally, I agree, I find the green hand very out of place. But I wish was the other way around, he could have some more fire moves. Maybe a green tornado? I get it he's the "red tornado", but come'n, give our boi some love
Banishing Flat was created out of Zangief's jealousy for projectiles. Look at it, it's a GREEN HAND that's on FIRE...sounds just like a person who's tired of dealing with fireballs.
In SF IV my main was Zangief, and I used green hand a lot. If the enemy took it, great. If the enemy blocked, I could do a spinning piledriver. But in USF IV, I became a main Cammy, because I started playing on my pc (and no longer at the arcades) and I just can't do a 360° motion on the keyboard.
I never knew this was punishable with jab in SF4. It ended up feeling like an inevitable mix up with grab or lariat in the follow up!
I started my journey as a Zangief main in the SFA2 era. I feel that in the Alpha days, the Banishing Flat was a great tool for pressuring opponents with a block combo string (if you execute the BF far enough, it was mostly safe on block), controlling the space between you and the opponent (intentional whiff into 360), or use it as a meaty. It worked the same way in the 2D games he appeared in after SFA, but then things got weird when Street Fighter went 3D. My use of the Banishing Flat fell off when I saw that it was so easily punished on block and it ultimately slowed down my pace (mind you, I never got used to using EX moves because I was no longer playing constantly after CvS2). I would like to think I was a “fast” Zangief player that relied on combo pressure, corner carry, and counter moves, but that all went away when the Banishing Flat was an unreliable move.
Thanks, I genuinely never understood what the move was for when I was a kid because of the recovery
Grapplers should have counters to balance them. Any game with Parry it seems redundant. They could leave green hand weak and somewhat redundant by giving it another quality, like building meter like he is absorbing the energy or giving him stacks of reduced damage (armor) that fall off or a short burst of speed or extra action if he hits a fireball. Bouncing fireballs back might be TOO powerful but maybe he could bounce them a short distance or they are a small explosion next to him.... Basically a reward for having to deal with fireball zoning and traps.
i remember it doing crazy guard damage in alpha 3.
I was always curious about this move! It seemed super weird and interesting/funny, but I was confused on why Zangief can do it lore-wise. Seeing some of the replies/headcanons is pretty funny, so I kinda get it more. I think it could've returned for the Drive system in 6 as just a cool little detail, but who knows if we'll ever see this fan favorite move again.
Actually tundra storm was made to help specifically Gief on the Sim matchup. That's why it counter horizontal moves. It's not practical more often than not. But Sim's HK is slow and reactable
i miss sf4 gief, he was the most fun that character has ever been to me. i never really tried learning him before it and he made the single player stuff like survival and time attack a lot more doable
On top of mechanical redundancy as of now, I definitely think the move not fitting Zangief aesthetically or thematically was a large part of why. Guilty Gear is a much bigger culprit of these so to speak, but a lot of older fighting games just kinda threw on moves for the sake of having new tools only for them to not rly fit the characters they're designed for all that well, and later games tend to look over what fits and what doesn't and adjust accordingly. You can really feel how they've zeroed in on what kind of character they want Gief to play like in SFVI especially, and something like green hand looks out of place and raises too many questions lol
SF2 was the first one so it influenced that type of direction in the industry. But the root cause might have just been the need to better justify the yearly "update sequels" (still nothing was justified, but was better that way). Like, Capcom milking SF2 for 4 years straight and making no new fgs, while MK was getting true sequels and no milking in the beginning, before MK3. And SNK's Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting and Samurai Shodown were all released while Capcom was still milking SF2 (91-93), all of them getting true sequels with new content, new story, new graphics, new gameplay... and only FFS got an update sequel in 93. And the next year SNK would debut KOF, their 4th brand new franchise. So other companies were more productive with fgs than Capcom. Then it makes sense that the SF devs would push to add new moves in every update sequel. Not to everyone but to a good number of chars. And sometimes not a new move but just a change that makes it different enough (like Ryu's air Tatsu in SF2T).
@@carlosaugusto9821 Yeah, I definitely think that was the root of a lot of it. If they're releasing the "same game" every year people would rightfully call it a ripoff, so they added just a smidge extra to polish up the game and make it technically unique. It leads to games like Guilty Gear XX Accent Core which like, is incredibly good, but has so many extraneous moves that feel really questionable just for the sake of it. I think it's good for devs to not get too attached to the idea of "this move is too iconic, it must stay" and instead reflect on what parts are needed to convey the character they want
"it seems out of place for him to have it". I like it BECAUSE its "out of place" because its like oh cool Zangief is learning how to use Ki energy and developed this technique to help deal with enemy Ki projectiles.
12:04 - Oh, I *love* counters. In KOF 99 I was a main Kasumi because of her moveset.
I agree with your theory about the devs wanting Zangief to be more focused on wrestling, I think green hand was removed because the devs didn't think it matched Zangief's flavour. Zangief was definitely lacking without it in 5, which is why fans wanted it back so much, but personally I think Zangief is just fine without it in 6 and the drive system helps fill the gap left by removing green hand. Also the devs didn't add Tundra Storm because they thought it would make Zangief better, they were just fans of the Dragon Screw in pro wrestling so they added one to Zangief.