New Standard Bans Solar Battery Storage In Lofts BSI PAS 63100:2024
Installers should stop putting batteries in lofts, experts are warning
…a contracting firm is fined £40,000 after an electrician is badly burned in an arc flash…
…and the City & Guilds falls foul of the education regulator…
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Time Stamps ⏱
00:00 Electrical News Weekly 02nd April 2024
00:37 Electricians should not put batteries in lofts
01:40 Last weeks question of the week
02:23 Lewden are back on tour in their roadshow van
02:45 Introduction of solar panel subscription services
04:02 Company fined after installer suffers brain injury
04:49 Another company fined after employee burned by arc flash
06:17 City and Guilds fined £200,000
06:55 Signify launches LumXpert, a new app for electrical installers
07:44 We want your stories
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09:20 Challenge words and winners
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Glad to see you highlighting this - so many installers haven’t been made aware.
Sure. I dont agree with the report. But it is the sort of information that you kind of want to be better spread. Im still not clear as to whether to adopt, partially adopt. Until its definitive and regulatory its not very helpful in creating an equal and safe marketplace for solar installers and consumers.
@@user-ir2uk1lt9l I had my system installed in December - the 40kg battery is in the loft directly above the staircase. The installers simply fitted a 10 year linked smoke detector set - 1 in the loft and 1 on the landing - as there was no where else the battery could go. Should I be concerned?
Has this been in forced or is it just a recommendation
Thanks Jordan. 😊
Who is suppose to tell us MCS ???? Battery manufactures or suppliers dont.
This does sound a bit like a regulation based on the assumption that all lithium based batteries are the same rather than differentiating the LiFePO4 batteries most use and the Lithium ternary batteries that the Tesla Powerwall certainly used to use. Also if you stick a battery outside you run into the potential problem of low temperature charging. I would think a decently constructed LiFePO4 battery fixed to a gable end in a decently insulated / ventilated loft would be fine.
I can't believe it was ever allowed in the first place
Who allowed it in the first place?
Not sure it was, it just wasn’t banned 🤷♂️
Sounds like sense for a change.
Missed a bit of an opportunity to say not indoors, ever - and force manufacturers to get proper big boy IP ratings and figure all this out. Of course some have, but there needs to be a bigger push on it.
It's pretty restrictive where it can be indoors if you read the document. 🤔
Or you know, could just forbid the use of particularly volatile chemistries like NMC for residential completely.
@@lua-nyawell the point isn't necessarily just about fire. Lifepo4 is stable enough for most purposes and its failure modes we can live with. The world needs to stop manufacturers thinking that everybody has 100sqft plant rooms in their house is all, and create nicer looking kit. I mean totally the fire thing too, but..
@@streaky81 Oh absolutely. I know people who built closets around their inverter and battery just so they stop looking out of place.
What aopears to be common sense on first glance has potentially not been thought through. Has battery chemistry been considered here? The evidence shows that LiFePo4 batteries are extremely stable and resistant to fire. I cant recall a single case of a battery fire due to a malfunction in one of these modules. Operating temperature is up to 50 deg C - if it excedes this, it shuts down but wont catch fire. A ventilated loft space in the UK shouldn't exceed the operating temperature. Most battery systems are wall mounted into bricks or blocks so no issue falling through floors. Would it not be more constructive to qualify an incoming standards document to mitigate risk? In cities like London, many properties will now be unsuitable for solar.
Absolutely... this seems like regulations trying to catch up with the technology but the tech has already moved on.
Have seen plenty of KZhead electricians visit houses where batteries are just sat on floor boards in the lost, not even secured to anything. Unfortunately there are very good and and some very bad solar installers. Before batteries came along just look how some of the inverters are fitted. Sunny boy instructions at the time stated “ mount vertical on a non combustible surface” yet I have seen them on chipboard screwed to the diagonal truss legs.
Any sparky that has ever worked in a loft knows how hot it gets during the summer, always thought having batteries in the loft was a bad idea.. I wonder how long it will be till those rules are made retrospective and we have to start C2 batteries in the roof..
I don't think the issue is how hot it gets in the loft. That doesn't cause the batteries to catch fire.
Should you ever be applying retrospectively on an EICR?
@@deang5622 You would hope there would be some kind of fail safe but yes overheating is a thing, generally solar batteries have an operating temperature of -20 to 50 degrees but it is recommended to keep them in 0 to 30 degrees. Lofts can get above 50 degrees in extreme heat, its just not a good place for batteries to be..
@@steve11211 The issue isn't overheating of the batteries. Plenty of lithium batteries catch fire and it is not a hot sunny day. The issue is a fault in the battery.
Insurance companies will likely start to refuse cover if you have batteries in the loft.
Mine were recent installed in the loft - but I’ve monitored temperatures for a year without any cause for concern. I’m glad they’re mounted directly onto the wall rather than resting on wooden supports, though.
Thanks for this. Never noticed mcs sending us through any of the new ess regulations
Was madness putting them in lofts, can't believe anyone thought it was a good idea.
Totally agree been saying this for years... Will put a lot of people off having solar panels though..
Spot on we had a solar quote and they were planning to put in loft. Most do as it saves them on copper cable and work. Good legislation
My brother has his battery stack currently in the loft because the installers said that this was the best place for them. They were going to put mine in the loft as well, but I opted for them to run a longer cable down to the garage instead, which I'm glad I did. I think what I'll suggest to him is to put a smart fire alarm like a NEST inside the loft, just in case.
@@alpachino468 Thats probably a very good idea putting a smoke alarm in the loft although I would check if a heat alarm might be better. You could hard wire it from lighting circuit and use an RF base to link to other smoke detectors in the house..
@@steve11211Get a combined smoke and heat alarm in the loft that is interlink to every floor of the dwelling. So on average house with ground/First and loft you would need a min of 3 interlinked units. Also very important to test the fire/smoke/heat alarms every 6 months at least. Get in habit to test when the clocks change. Eg clocks spring forward 1 hour on the 5th Sunday of March normally between 2 and 4am. Obvs dont test alarms at that time of the morning of Gaz next door might have a few words.
Have to say i was unaware of the large numbers of fires that have lead to such a draconian documents publication. What stats have i missed?
Typical ebike battery seems to be about 500Wh, and they are bad enough when they catch fire. A Tesla Powerwall is 13.5kWh. They will be safer than a typical eBay bike battery, but not 100% safe.
@@katrinabryce Ok. But you must surely be aware of the difference between an e-bike charger and a lifePo battery with BMS? Nothing in life is 100% safe. Except the fridge that noone ever switches off 😲
@@katrinabryce Typical misinformed nonsense. Cheap eBike and "hoverboard" batteries are an absolute fire hazard. Totally incomparable to a home battery system.
@Cheradanine cheap chinese 18650 lithium ion cells or cheap lipos in a pack are a far cry from a decent BMS managed life pack used in most solar systems. I suspect any regulation will specify chemistry that must not be used inside.
Solar batteries are LiFeP04 which do not explode or catch fire. Temperatures in the loft can get a bit high but these batteries are high and low temperature tolerant. I would imagine the main risk is weight. I have had additional batteries installed in the garage and they weigh 80Kg. The footprint is the same as a pizza box so in a fire a loft mounted battery could rip through the floor. No need to panic but probably better to use a garage.
Tesla Powerwalls use Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt chemistry cells though.
There are also some using lithium ion such as iirc the growatt recycled ev batteries. Life is probably better suited as they don't need fast charge capability or the need to dump current like they do in an EV.
@@carlwilliams3488 You're incorrectly referring to Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC) as Lithium-Ion. Lithium-Ion is a family of cell chemistries that use the intercalation of Lithium ions in the cathode.
@VinoVeritas_ should have said LMO chemistry but no one would have any idea what I was talking about they don't realise that the battery chemistry more often usedis different to EVs with only the odd ones now being the more volatile types.
I worry enough about the small UPS I have, not sure I'd like to have a multi kwh battery storage in the loft where the temperature is uncontrolled and there is essentially no monitoring for problems.
Crikey. Food for thought on this one chaps. Good job. Good to see the industry and regulation racing to catch up regarding solar and battery installations. Theres a lot of fit and forget occurring out in the world at the moment and a lot of complacency regarding the risks presented by these new technologies.
Yur, regs are always racing to catch up with tech, it's the nature of the beast. 👍
[00:50] Just paused to read the text, and the prohibition about outdoor fitting of a battery within 1 metre of door, windows, ventilation ports is going to preclude of lot of those locations as well.
Yup, it's going to be tricky... 🤔
Tricky is a bit of an understatement...
Not that tricky really, if your safety is at stake , don't install.
@@raychambers3646 What stats are there to show there's actually a real problem?
If they lithium storage, could be due to the heavy smoke that comes off them in fire also.
Good point. 👍
Best ban thatched roofs whilst we're at it too, especially with chimneys..
On a side note, Joe and Gaz are looking really well. Carry on gents! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Ah, thank you very much, they say the camera adds ten pounds. 🤔 Not sure how many cameras are on us... 😂
I'm surprised they didnt suggest PVs should be installed underground away from light to avoid the arcing issue. It just has a couple of minor drawbacks.
When does the BSI change on batteries take effect? Considering solar and would not be happy with it in the house but don’t want it outside or in the garage so considering a dedicated compartment. The hilarious thing is my electricity bill used to be around £60 per quarter with no standing charge from a Company called Ebico. Now my electricity bill is more than that for the standing charge alone. 😢
Don't put battery systems in spaces like a loft which are exposed to huge temperature changes, you will get longer life and better perforamnce if its installed anywhere else.
Taking the point battery's don't like cold temps.
So bizarre as watched the Ch5 programme rugs eve “The Truth About Solar Panels” and their example was a family with batteries in the loft! I thought that was a bizarre place to have it, make the installation easier I suppose but maintenance might be a problem then , gosh that’s possibly really dangerous up there. ..
Watched that on 2/3. There are a few houses nearby that have installed gas boilers in the attic though - albeit not clear what the access to it is.
What about in a finished loft in a garage/workshop? (outbuilding not directly connected to the main residence)
Great question! 😃
Usual rubbish most that are fitted in lofts in my experience are bolted to the wall of the gable end so not sure how they would fall. What about all the rest of combustible crap people store in their lofts. Where will this nonsense end!
What a surprise what took them so long. COMMON SENSE
More likely some hush money from somewhere to avoid dampening the excitement of yet another heavily subsidised load of crap from the eco lunatics.
As a consumer with a call booked with Octopus to discuss installation I'll be interested to see if their advisor even knows about this. My bungalow has one wall that meets the requirements for outside placement as it's detached, most properties won't, the garden? I have a detached garage but by the time cables are run I suspect costs will escalate. Update: They didn't so I sent them a copy.
Until it's included in BS7671 or the Building Regulations, it's irrelevant. Just eFixx clickbait.
Have seen boilers and heat recovery units in the roof , might have well have the full set ! ( not ) .
HRV in the loft makes lots of sense, boilers always seemed a strange choice.
I said a few months ago I’m sure Gaz plant room bog doesn’t comply with The Reg having a Battery storage unit and switch gear two feet away from the toilet and wash basin is not a good idea. .
Hm, don't think the toilet and sink are a problem...🤔
Speaking with a customer hat on, I had panels installed last year including a battery in the loft, this is very interesting. I completely understand where this is coming from but may have deterred me from purchasing a system. Looking where else I could have it installed is restricted and would impact on the budget. How weatherproof is the equipment and is there a variation between makes?
Do you know what your battery chemistry is?
I’ve been looking into getting solar and a battery but want both the inverter and battery externally mounted. I have a suitable north facing wall but there is a real lack of battery external enclosures. A waterproof enclosure with air ventilation and even the ability to add some fireproof insulation shouldn’t be too hard to design.
I have a solar PV setup with 10kW of batteries in my garage. A friend has an identical system with batteries on an outside wall. On a cold clear day I charge at up to the max 3kWh rate, he only manages 200w! The reason given? His batteries are too cold. He then built a cover for them out of insulated board and installed a 40w cylindrical heater inside. The result - no difference.
Good!!! Some of the installs in the loft Iv seen are just a fire hazard waiting to happen.
that was my idea! ...if I was to experiment with Lithium batteries then I prefer them to be in a (well ventilated) enclosure at the top of the yard (away from the ranch)...
Did I miss something? It’s a standard, not a regulation. C’mon efizz, what precisely is the legislative order of precedence requiring me to implement this?
eFixx is just a bunch of middle aged sparks that have jumped on the KZhead grift. They think science is talking to a supernatural spirit whilst sitting around a table holding hands.
Bit harsh. Some of us are way past middle age...
@@efixx It's a pity you didn't get someone like Griff Thomas to do a video on this before causing an unnecessary stir in the solar PV installation world. Most of them can't even read yet.
@@VinoVeritas_ The author of the PAS will be on eFIXX TV -29th May.
@@efixx I hope they're bringing some real world statistics with them then. That was such a major omission in PAS 63100.
It's safe to install them inside houses giving the correct environment such as never charging below freezing conditions, an arc is down to incompetent installer. They could be installed into fireproof enclosures, on a brick wall. Next they will be banning batteries in remote controlls.
Okay crack on and ignore a standard which will be adopted by insurance industry.
@@efixxYou didn't even read PAS 63100 properly though, did you?
@@VinoVeritas_what bit have we struggled with?
@@efixx PAS 63100 is a Publicly Available Specification and many levels away from actual legislation. It's also riddled with the words "where practicable". To suggest it bans outright the installation of batteries in a loft is a massive leap and completely disingenuous on your behalf. Like I've mentioned in another comment, the solar PV installers can barely read, let alone think for themselves. As you well know, a lot of MCS accredited installation businesses were roofers and scaffolders 2 years ago.
@@efixx Fuck the insurance industry!
Why would you install Lifepo4 batteries external. They are not a fire risk and fitting them externally will reduce performance in the winter when you need them most. People are mixing up fires from poorly made battery scooters and bicycles which use a different chemistry.
Argh! Ours is in the loft! What do we do? Is there any retrospective aspect to the standard?
Interesting, I don’t have anywhere inside or outside and no garage space to store batteries…. Does this mean I can’t have solar battery storage then ? I also don’t have the space for the “new” heat pump heating system either
No batteries in the loft just put them outside by the Oil tank, be safer that way.... All joking aside going to be interesting to see the average house with heat pumps and batteries outside... I wonder how long before those expensive batteries disappear in the middle of the night....
Just store your electric Chinese scooter up there instead?
Can you imagine what was said when they proposed delivering explosive gas into 18 million homes? Reality is removing gas from homes offsets the explosion/fire risk dramatically
Presumably you are replacing your oil heating with heat pumps, so remove the tank and put the battery bank in the same location. Having said that, a battery bank is probably more dangerous than an oil tank. I don't recommend you try this, but I would guess that if you dropped a lit match into an oil tank, the match would go out. It is about as flammable as cooking oil. Chip pan fires do happen, and they are very serious, but it is relatively difficult to get it started. If the battery bank were to catch fire, then that would however create enough heat to set the oil tank on fire as well.
@@edc1569 Gas is dangerous but you missed the point. We can easily test the security of the piping and associated appliances easily. A pipe is a pipe... unless it corrodes, it will not leak and that corrosion can be checked. The problem with batteries is that if the separator is placed a fraction of a millimetre out, the electrolyte was contaminated by something or a myriad of other little things... it can catch on fire, a day, week, month, year or even decade later. But the main issue is, you can't visually check any of it. You can't check if the separator was installed correctly inside that tightly wound battery for example. If it does catch on fire... the fire isn't the problem either. It's the cyanide gas it releases within seconds. Which means by the time you notice it's on fire... you are already dead. Hence not putting it within 1m of any openings or vents in the house and certainly NEVER inside the house.
@@katrinabryce my oil tank is between my garage and next doors fence, my boiler is in the detached garage which is 2mts away from the house , the only wall that could accommodate a heat pump is 2 mts long where my gas cylinders are for my hob that faces next door, no cupboards indoors to accommodate any ancilory equipment for the heat pump exist airing cupboard is the with of a 2ft door x 8ft in hight all existing pipework rises from the floor, my south facing roof could only accommodate possible 4 sola panels east & west might accommodate 2 more each side, I'll think I'll stick to using my 2 log burners.
"City and Guilds" still a thing since NVQs?
Does this ban mean that solar companies will really stop installing battery systems in lofts? what will happen to those customers who have been convinced by the companies that loft installation is safe and have had batteries installed in their lofts ; are they entitled to have a retrofitting to a safe location?
Can’t see how risk of collapse is an issue when water tanks are heavy and there are plenty of those in lofts. As for being flammable, are they more dangerous than gas boilers in lofts?
If a water tank in a loft falls because of fire then it assists in extinguishing the fire 😂. Joking aside all the loft watertanks I have had in my houses were alway located above a internal wall offering support.
The “fines” are not really a deterrent are they, literally a few invoices go up a few % and it’s covered
I did wonder if the people that have had an install had their house insurance go up
Who's going to tell insurance? :D
@@levyroth might have a nasty shock if a fire burns their house down and the insurance company finds out why , sorry sir we didn’t know about that , your insurance is invalid
Isn't that just for guidance and not mandatory "Should not be put ----"
Well, IDK specifically what is included, but I know we do have related regulations in the US. Wiring related issues are address in the NEC, National Electrical Code, which is a the NFPA, (National Fire Protection Association) But there are separate sections like the NFPA 855 Standard for the Installation of Stationary Energy Storage Systems, which cover the kind of issues related to these installations. There may also be some related regulations in the IFC, IRC and IBC, which are similar "building codes" which may or may not apply in a specific area. NFPA regulations tend to be considered as the national standards, however, technically States have overall jurisdiction and can vary from State to State. Additionally, other local codes may apply. These may exist in big cities and sometimes counties. Generally, these local codes tend to be regulations that exceed the NFPA standards. Usually being in compliance with NFPA codes, you are probably going to be 95% covered, but some additional restrictions may apply. NFPA codes will give you a very safe system, usually far better than international standards. I reasonably sure that the NFPA 855 code, would not allow this. That said, depending on where you live, they may or may not be any formal inspections to ensure compliance. Personally, I am not a fan of any "high energy utilizing" equipment in attics or what you call lofts, but a lot of building codes do allow this. Mainly HVAC equipment, that may include furnaces. I personally think anything beyond air circulating equipment has some risks although the equipment may be certified for such locations. Just seems like common dense to me as these are areas that tend to be routinely ignored and problems may go unnoticed. I can not say with confidence that this situation does not exist here, but I suspect it is very rare. Mainly because we tend to have larger homesites, detached garages and generally better spaces to put such systems. Plus I don't see people looking to save the cost of cabling to save relatively small cost! We are certainly not as "copper conscious" as people in the UK seem to be, Frugal is not a word used very often!! We tend to look at what we need and then go with twice as much!! We end to error on the side of excess and then end up using it. I can confidently say, I would never put in a system like this or see it as a viable solution to not enough space!! Just seems like a bad idea to have this inside of a residence.
In the UK, most of us are poor and can't afford basic necessities. Must be nice to have options.
@@levyroth Must be nice to have national healthcare!! Statistics do not support your statement. Although poverty is higher in the the IK than the US you have a lot of government services and overall, most people in the UK are not poor. although some are. I find it hard to believe that poor people are installing solar battery storage! I can assure that only those of comfortable wealth in the US are installing these systems! If you can't afford to do it safely and instead go cheap and put your home and foamily at risk, I'd argue that you couldn't afford it in he first place!! In the US, we don't consider doing things unsafely half-assed on the cheap, is really an option. That's not to say that we don't have DIYers who do dumb things because they don't know better, we have plenty of those! But that is different than consciously trading safety for a lower cost!
Monthly bills of £13? My standing charges are more than that.
Love to see how less efficient all these batteries are gonna get in the winter
install them underground ( 4 ft deep pit ) with insulated lid, and the batteries will never go below 4 C. That is precisely why water pipes are buried below ground ; to prevent them freezing. This is a much better scenario than EVs , which have to charge in sub zero temperatures.
I sleep well at night knowing my neighbour has his on the adjoining wall between our properties! I dont suppose there is nothing i can do about it?
We are sure insurance companies will motivate a bit of change.
On the solar Batteries as, I am not a professional. My Father has a Battery installed. Its on a reinforced section, the reinforcing is fire retardant (concrete board, i think its called), there is venting and a fire detection device which is on the mains and linked to the rest of the house system. Reading the linked notes it isnt concerned with low voltage set ups. So i looked up low voltage on the BS number shown in notes and it looked like as His Batteries are a nominal 50v DC. Theu are considered low voltage. So am i right in saying this style of install is uneffected by this change in guidance? I live in a flat which peculiar has a loft and a roof and was considering copying my fathers install later this year.
What about batteries in the toilet (aka plant room)
😬 Gary's got some big decisions to make! 😂
what happens if like me I dont have the space, the only place they could go was in the loft and feel 100% safe. Is there any evidence that this is a problem at all ?
Are standards written on a back of a bus ticket on a bus to work . As an ex builder i can say the changes i have seen over my life are farcical , especially on electrics and ventilation /insulation . However even though its not regs i charge my batteries in an old oven with fire alarm and fire blanket fitted and ready .
How would you code a battery in loft for an EICR?
FI……RE
Stuff the loft installs I don't think people have realised how draconian the new guidelines are. A large number of people simply won't be able to have batteries fitted.
Even more people can't have solar panels so it's just "one of those things" people will have to live with.
Mutation and Compartmentalisation
Thought it was the inverter that gets hot, hence all the cooling fins? None such on batteries..
Does that mean any batteries already installed in a loft have to be moved as I'm sure insurance company's will not pay out if something goes wrong
yes
@@lewisbrand What a joke this country is ... would laugh, but I'm too poor to afford a smile.
The standard in Australia/ new Zealand for batteries, worth a read. As/nzs 5139
Can non UK citizens also view this PAS 63100:2024 document? The link does not work.
Hm, should be OK, we're not aware of any restrictions. 🤔
@@efixx I managed to get it at work. It's quite strict! Many vendor and potential customers will be unhappy.
Don’t think arc fault detectors will stop the battery going on fire. More safety is needed for these.
Maybe the fact they are LiFeP04 which do not explode or catch fire is the most important point.
Sure, build bigger houses in UK so we have enough room to place batteries somewhere else. The attic is unused space, perfect for such installations (also, harder to steal a battery from the attic). Everything related to green energy is a huge scam.
It’s very convenient Gaz choose to put a sink and toilet in his fire proof room. Nobody wants to be caught short. 😂 As for lofts was always madness. Some interesting rules on outdoor locations within 1m of entry, exit, windows etc, ventilation and combustible stored fuels. Terraced housing stock just got more fun! Some smart arse did a video about this nobody watched about a year ago 🤭. Can’t remember his name.
Putting lithium batteries in a roof space is about as ridiculous as installing dc isolators on the roof in the weather with a bit of aluminium to apparently protect them
PAS is NOT a regulation though?
So many people have not paid attention to exactly what’s said in the video! It’s a recommendation,NOT a regulation. Ignore the clickbait title.
Ev ultra has been told by NICEIC it's not compliance as it has no BS number.
You can list as a departure from the regulations backed by a Basec CAD file.
good job my installation done recently in the loft !!
What's the level of risk?
@@deang5622 it says if a fire they will blow up or something ... if we have a fire that gets into the loft the house is finished anyway ... but these are not anti battery people I would hope
@@ianrob4760me too! Will insurance cover if there’s a fire?
@@stevendigby6125 yep because fitted to the standards at the time and certified. But worrying about battery fires seems so passe ?
Has there been a problem with batteries in lofts? Does it define size ( eg AAA!) or type ( e. g. Thermal, lead acid, hot sand, etc)?
An ESS battery weighs in at around 50kg
Just to let you know Gloucestershire and South Gloucestershire are different counties!
Bristling and Mutation
Mutation and bristling
actually think this is sensible
I would not allow inverters to be installed to loft either.
The you are as one mind with the BSI! 😃👍💪
Don't have a problem with the inverters in the loft, they'll self regulate back when they get hot and they're not affected by cold, plus theres not a lot there to sustain a fire.
Genetic excavation?
I'm sick of being advertised to.
Stick to the BBC
Will this mean Gaz has to make changes to his plant room? Possibly remove toilet and sink and fire proof the room?
I said a few months ago I’m sure Gaz plant room bog doesn’t comply with The Reg having a Battery storage unit and switch gear two feet away from the toilet and wash basin is not a good idea. .
@@Dog-whisperer7494 Maybe Gaz thought the toilet would help with the Part P when he takes a P
Wondrwall is the worst smart home system I’ve ever had the misfortune of coming across! Do Not Buy! Customer support have there hands tied by management that know how terrible the system is.
What's wrong with it?
My apartment came with a Wondrwall system. While I have no experience of the battery I do have experience with other offerings they provide. Take for example the light switches, they get warm when turned on. The light switches also act as thermostats and the property’s electric heating was controlled by them. So you in a constant battle with your heating system should you decide to turn the lights on. The app is horribly clunky and slow, it takes maybe 15mins to add a single device in a process that should take no more than 30sec. The app doesn’t work if you go out of the UK, simply will not allow you to log in or remained logged in. This is fine until your out the country and family visit and you have set the inbuilt alarm system and are unable to disarm it and it’s going off at 11pm. The system uses an outdated Zigbee protocol that they also closed off (it’s supposed to be an open protocol) so you can’t interfere it with Google, Apple, home assistant, it only “works” (I use that term loosely) with Alexa. Customer support was friendly but completely unable to help. I reported many of the issues to tech support but they don’t have an in house programming and it’s all farmed out to the cheapest bidder when they have a big batch of changes to be made, I wasted over 6 month for an update to address some of the issues and nothing happened, just check out the App Store reviews. People report the alarm system going off repeatedly for no reason. When I left a review on Google they offered me £100 to take the system back as long as I took my review down. This was an insult as my time alone is worth more than £100 let alone replacing the heating and lighting control systems. Scheduling anything on the system is a complete pain and is basically non-functional, you think you would be able to tell your lights to come on automatically if you away from home at 8pm, well this isn’t an option and is not/will not be supported. The screw terminals on the light switches don’t have the correct clearances so you could if you were unlucky touch like electrical parts (you should be working safely and isolate and prove dead.) but they should still conform to the standards for live exposed parts. So from my experiences with them id stay 100 million miles away.
bristling and mutation
Mutation & bristling.
Mutation and bristling 🤞🏼
Nice guesses Matt, listen to next week's show to see if you got it! 😃
Mystified and bristling
Good guesses as always Mark! 😃
Mutation Mystified
I think the major problem with anything heavy and potentially flammable in lofts is a fire starting below then spreading upwards. Ask a fire fighter.
Genetic code
Mutation and Excavate
But you can have a heavy hot gas boiler in the loft? or pretty much anywhere else you want
But two seconds for the fire brigade to turn off the gas, but hours for the now re-entry satellite to be extinguished/subdued.
How many gas boilers catch fire?
@@deang5622 About 300/yr in the UK. Current number of recorded LiFePo fires in the UK 0
Superhero mystified
Brick chimneys should be banned from lofts as they are also very heavy and could collapse into the living spaces below ………… Ban them!!!
So Jamie Blatant was right all along he pointed out the problems early last year .
Ignoring the fire or safety risk, its a bad plan because batteries degrade much faster and have higher IR with higher temperatures.
Batteries outside in the rain or in a damp garage with lots of flammable materials in there. Yeah, that'll be so much safer...
The batteries do not burn or explode. So apart from weight little to no risk.
@@mbak7801 - So why are they moving them out of lofts? And why are there loads of videos of Teslas burning uncontrollably?
@@Benzknees ... EV burning is, for the most part, an internet meme ... good for clicks but extraordinarily rare! How many home batteries that have caused a fire have we heard about? Washing machines, dryers and electric heaters all cause fires quite frequently yet we're quite relaxed about having them in our homes!
@@MrAdopado - It's different from normal batteries, as you have large arrays of batteries packed together, where a fault in one can lead to thermal runaway. As those videos show, the resultant fires are intense, potentially explosive & long lasting. And they release poisonous chemicals & can't be fought with water. Zurich Insurers recommend parking EVs 10m from combustible walls & 7.5m from window openings. The idea of a home array sat inside a garage or near to a house, exposed to rain & condensation, is an uncomfortable one!
I don't think a loft is the correct environment for any control equipment, including batteries, because of the risk of fire and the extreme range of temperatures typical of uninsulated roof spaces.
Maybe look at the batteries that are used. Totally different to what is used in cars and significantly safer. 100s of gas explosions a year in the home no one is talking about banning gas in the home. Seriously you pipe flammable gas into a confined space with electrical equipment and naked flames and you're worried about batteries? 😂
Sun synk
Bristling & mutation, I hope anyway
I hate batteries just a pain in the bottom.
Mutation and scouts
Great guesses, make sure you stay tuned to next week's show to see if you're right! 😁
fire service see fires all day so there biased!
mutation and superhero
Excavate and bristling
Mutation and super hero