Have We Been Doing Solar WRONG All Along? 🤷🏻♂️
In this video, we join Heatable in installing these brand-new Bi-facial panels which are being described as the future of the solar industry.🤔 This begs the question of whether have we been doing solar wrong all along?
We also look at this brand new Enphase microinverter which is quite the tool in the solar industry. Make sure to keep watching the video to see the team get a large DC shock and competition between companies. 👀
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⏱️Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction
00:34 - Jumping to day one
01:28 - BIG FAIL
03:16 - Learning more about Bi-facial panels
05:38 - Interesting find about these solar panels
06:32 - Installing the rails
07:43 - Introducing the Enphase Microinverters
09:02 - TOOL BATTLE TIME
10:45 - Competition time but with a SHOCKING twist…
12:50 - The mystery battery
13:52 - Looking at the work in the meter box
15:16 - Where is the inverter?
17:37 - Heading into day two
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I wonder why you are so late on micro inverters. There is also micro inverters from Deye, Hoymiles when each micro inverter can cover 4 PVs. Much faster and safer solution to deploy. Micro inverters can also be fitted inside the loft for easy replacement in the future. At is it is good that you are catching up.
Just wondering why you are using a hybrid inverter with Enphase micro inverters? Surely you could simply use an AC coupled system? Plus, they're cheaper and supposed to last longer. p.s. don't forget the 25 year warranty that Enphase offer.
At 15:30 their is a lie Modern pannels use bypas diodes, so a system with the right inverter (low start voltage) will keep your array running in the shade
"Bi-Facial" solar panels are said to be great on those ground installed setups in places like Alaska and Northern Canada, where more land area is available (and if snow builds up, can be swept off with a broom from ground level easily). Set on angled frames on the ground, the brightly reflected light from surrounding snow, powers the back of the solar panel as the direct Sunlight strikes the front. And remember the colder the air, the higher their efficiency. So as your Solar Panels are "Bi-Facial" and the underside faces a dark clay/concrete tiled rood. For fudge sake wouldn't it have been a great idea to give the tiles a quick brush off first, then slop on a thick coat of High-Gloss White Paint ! That would have to give a very substantial increase in output, surely.
I saw a video where they installed them vertically on the ground, east/west facing. Snow can't accumulate on them, the ground can be used for other things and they appeared to be just as effective, if not better.
Or some mirror type panels fixed to the tiles underneath the solar panels 🤔
This is your best video yet. Nobody else on KZhead has shown the tiles being lifted up and how you attach the rail mounts to the roof. I know that you're an electrical channel but when it comes to solar it's the roofing part that we need to know about.
You need to watch a few more KZhead videos then. 🤦♂️
There are actually quite a lot of YT videos showing the application of the brackets .
What would be great is a tool designed specifically for grinding a channel in the back of the tiles…using a grinding wheel and the torque placed on the wrist, the dust/particles that fly off, as well as the mess it can make is not good…
And why is there no silver sarking under the tiles to get an extra waterproof layer and reflectivity ?
Forgot to mention. The enphase IQ7+ have a max output of 315 watts compared to those bi-facial panels max of 420 watts. Yes its common to oversize your panels compared to you inverter but thats a big difference. Also the hybrid interter for the battery installation is a bit useless when all you get from the roof is AC courtesy of the Enphase units
Don't know why Artisan say they don't like DC. When batteries are DC and you can wire DC straight into the battery without losing power going through an inverter!
They also talk as though its new technology, but Microinverters have been around for years and Enphase have been trying to eat into Solar Edge's market share in the US for as long as I can remember, and still failing. These 420-440w REA panels will produce way more in the summer with a standard string inverter and cheap Tigo optimisers (if needed) for shading and panel monitoring. If one Microinverter fails then Enphase will only pay a small contribution to replacing it, and this won't cover the cost of re-erecting the scaffolding to get back up there! Lots of scaremongering that shading on one panel can wipe the entire array out - utter rubbish !!! Obviously not heard of diode bypass!! If one panel is in shade it will not bring down the whole array, unless there was a solar eclipse!!!
Worse than that IQ7+ is 295W output with max 440w input. Would be interesting to see a comparison of the same panel layout using a string inverter vs micro-inverters like these to show in terms of generation through out the day the actual difference, could be the loss per panel of micro-inverters is outweighed by generating more, or if there is an issue with shading of panels which would effect the overall output from a string. There is a HUGE price difference to account for as well using MicroInverters.
since you are getting AC from the microinverters dont you need an inverter at the battery to change it to DC to charge the battery?
A 420 watt STC rated panel are going to be in the 300-330 watt NOCT range and that's going to be in real world perfect conditions so it really won't clip all that much. Getting a more expensive micro inverter probably isn't worth capturing an extra 25 watts a few times a year.
10 years and counting on our Enphase inverters, zero problems
We've had ours for 5 years under the hot Australian sun, still good.
Good to hear. 8 years SolarEdge and 1 of 14 optimisers gone down in January. They don't support fully, no help to get it changed. Enphase for my future projects I think.
16 enphase invertors . No issues in 9 years
@@carlarrowsmith Over 150 solaredge optimizers installed over the last 9 years. Only one DOA but got replaced under warranty. Never had an inverter or optimizer failed. Have been using P300 to S440 and S500B optimizers.
@@veeerzes One installer was telling me he has installed 40 replacement optimisers this year so far. Not uncommon they said to me at SolarEdge support.
If embedding panels on the roof can the micro inverters be fitted inside, so accessible in the loft space on the back of each tray? At least that way when one fails don't need scaffolding up etc for a simple swap.
Yes they can be, it's just a case of how you get the cables through the roof, while maintaining water tightness.
Interesting video - thanks! I’ve recently had IQ8MC micro inverters and 435W panels fitted to my roof. The one big disappointment with the installation was the micro inverters are only able to output 320W peak power (despite panels being 435W) and the clipping is very obvious when you look at the power curve on a sunny day. I heard that there’s a trade off, as more powerful microinverters have a higher starting voltage (or something like that), so they wouldn’t perform so well on a cloudy day. But still, I feel a bit despondent about the clipping. The system can only achieve 75% of the peak power I was quoted for.
Forget about the peak power, its not relevant in the end. Electricity in those peak times is worthless anyway since everyone is producing more than enough. I recently installed 37 IQ8MC on my roof and they produced 12W per panel on a cloudy day when the panel was completely covered with snow. Duration of production is key, not peak power.
That's kind of terrible, my 445W south-facing bifacial panels output 500-510W at noon when it's 5°C, they eventually get hot and settle around 470-480 after 20 minutes. Granted I have them mounted 2 meters high with nothing underneath but on 24°C days they output 420W for 3 hours straight. They run on an AP-System EZ-1M, first Watt at 5:45, last watt at 20:15 and that's with no view of the sun after 14:30. If you're selling electricity to the utilities, I would seriously consider swapping the inverters. If you're only running your home and a battery (no EV charging), it's not going to make a difference.
you know whats great about those micro inverters, if one fails, you have to put up scaffold/get a picker up there, remove the panel and swap out the module, and better yet, if its 5 years later, you may have to replace all the micro inverters because they aren't cross compatible.
We have Enphase micro inverters on our array. You're more than welcome to ask anything you like about our experience. We've had 1 fail over 9 years. System kept producing whilst faulty unit was replaced. VERY happy with them.
Sounds like you have a great system on your hands! Hopefully, we are going to keep installing these from now on.
As a fellow installer the micro inverters are way better and more practical. Optimizer (dc) systems only produce what the worst panels is. Micros make every panel produce individually
I have a new build. Would you recommend installing a roof with solar, integrated set up or solar tiles(UK)? I like this system.
Can you talk about the burden involved in getting the micro inverter fixed? Also, do you have any information on how the micro inverters may have reduced the energy available, e.g. by having a minimum activation power or through inefficiency? I would have thought it would be better to have the individual inverters inside the loft so they are easier to access, but maybe that creates new problems.
@@hamcheese9169 I thought optimizers are exactly for used for the reason to bypass the worst performing panel
Micro inverters for a small, completely unshaded and roof mounted system is not a good optimisation imo. For the additional cost of the inverters (£/wh) you could just fit another couple of panels that will massively outperfom any advantage otherwise. The less stuff you put on the roof the better imo, the costs to do "roofing stuff" are now the biggest cost of the system. When i worked out the costs for my system i got a better ROI for putting panels on a low flat roof i could therefore self install without scfolding, even though that location was less optimum in terms of insolation. The labour costs to put panels on my main roof, high with difficult access but unshaded and south facing) pretty much would have doubled the overall cost, whereas the insolation reduction from the non-optimum position is actually only approx 1/4 Micro inverters are also always going to cost more per Wh as each inverter carries an overhead per wh harvested, ie the casing, mounting, connectors, and of course the internal power and control electronics. For example, it costs pretty much the same to drive a single mosfet in a DCDC as it does to drive 10 in parallel, so your electronics cost per Wh is increased when you compare to a single, large high power device. When you start to look at long strings of panels then you also start to see a cabling cost save on larger systems as you are carrying your power at a higher average voltage (240VACrms vs say 400Vdc). So at 20amps (typical max continuous MC4 connector rating), you are talking about being able to carry 8kW, vs 4.8kW on the same cable!
Hi, watching this video, I’m impressed that you notched out tiles for brackets to properly fit. Be careful, don’t know if concrete or clay tiles but concrete dust is now considered toxic, silicosis, please be aware, thanks.
concrete dust is NOT considered toxic. anything is toxic if you eat/breath it too much,... even air. ;-)
@@drzavahercegbosnaponosna5974 Correct, he probably meant to say hazardous. And silicosis has been a thing for decades.
I was looking at these panels and enphase micro inverters last week, and it pops up on your channel. nice one keep up the good videos
Glad you enjoyed the video!
I'm English doing solar in Australia, we get 2 of them jobs done a day with the alphas and bigger systems on the roof with a crew of 4, criminal that's taken 2 days with that many lads
Could you fix the micro invertors INSIDE the roof slope ( or would that be a problem for heat dissipation)? Could save a few maintenance problems down the line if possible.
Now that was really useful, long time subscriber and I'm now on that journey to try and understand solar and battery storage for my house. This was the best explanation I've seen so far on the difference between oprimisers and micro-inverters. The things I hadn't twigged was that the latter eliminate the need for the big inverter box on the wall and also that the cables from the roof are then AC only. I've got roughly east / west facing with some shading from chimney but not that much space to put the battery and inverter. Got plenty of space but a lot of it in very hot sun in summer or a really cold blast in winter but with only the battery to worry about I've got a couple of spots might work.🤔 Food for thought, cheers Jordan, Artisans and Heatable.👍👏
Glad we could help you understand more about solar and any differences that you needed to learn about!
All these videos are very informative but it also demonstrates a problem , there are so many options and opinions that any punter such as me finds it very hard to know what we should be using . Of course everyone’s property and circumstances are different but in short it’s a nightmare , an expensive one to get wrong at that .
Add in sales people with targets to meet & it’s a nightmare
@@hughM9 my folks had a pushy salesman round the house. He generated a proposal on opensolar; for a system cost of £13k they could expect a £600k saving over the next 30 years 😂. He also had an allowance to give "preferred" customers another 10% off but that discount just happened to be expiring the following day.
I installed three 420W panels with IQ7A micro inverters on the roof of my shed a year ago. An easy DIY install for people that know what they're doing.
The massive downside about micro inverters you fail to mention is the £170 cost per one! Vs say the 5kW GivEnergy inverter for £1100 that can do 20x400w panels for 8kw panels oversized. Or a basic inverter for half that price if anyone is going inverter only with no battery! The 2nd massive downside is the max 320w - you can now get Aiko panels that are 450w - every new panel out there is over 420w. Some large size commercial panels go up to 600w. Why would you want 320w clipping on 400w panels. Inverters lose about 2% in efficiency at 100% power - so why throw away 25-30% power! The 3rd problem is if one fails. The 4th issue is DC panels going into a DC battery do that without going through an inverter - much better when you want to be filling the battery on low light days. Can see why Enphase was a $40bn USA company with massive profits on the stockmarket - the markup on those inverters would make Apple jealous - probably cost $20 to make in China. And yes, £170 on a single inverter is expensive when panels cost £65 in UK. See ITS technologies / Midsummer Wholesale What was interesting in the video was the quick side-to-side comparison of the bifacial panel vs the single sided - I'm impressed!
I just bought IQ7A inverters for £95 each delivered.
You can get 350w micro Inverters for about 33 pounds each from Taobao in China. Works well.
Haven't you heard of bypass diodes? Modern panels have usually 3 bypass diodes, string configurations handles shading very good, no need for optimizers or micro inverters. I will guarantee that optimizers and micro inverters WILL fail before the panels stops producing. A string inverter can easily be replaced in an hour while a fault under a panel on the roof could be very labour intensive...
Nah. For stationary shadow like chimneys or higher roofs perhaps. But for diffuse shadows like rustling leaves solely relying on bypass diodes is inferior to micro inverters or optimizers. Not to forget that once you have a system at varying gradients, string inverters can start struggling ( SMA puts this point at +- >15degrees).
@@jacobherrie6286It depends on how much diffuse shadow is present on the panels, the MPPT will take the best solution if using the bypass diodes or not, the performance difference shouldn't be particularly higher to be worth it, optimizers and micro inverters add cost and possibly maintenance in a difficult to reach position.
Those diodes works in very specific configuration and are very far from magic you try to portrait here. Those diodes are there for single reason - if one (or more) cell(s) will fail, then bypass diode will bypass, say third of the panel. usually cells are arranged in longer string - there and back, so two strings. Those diodes have nothing to do with shading - it may help, but it is unlikely, as shading does not drop voltage enough to get diode into bypass, so current will drop. Panel performance can be easiest described as voltage is close to constant and current changes by amount of light. So, no diode does absolutely nothing for shading. Your idea is wrong and should take lesson in electronics and physics, as you clearly lacking in both.
@@WizardNumberNext the voltage of the solar array is of course regulated by the MPPT or it wouldn't be able to find the maximum power point.
@@WizardNumberNext there has been a number of tests that shows very little difference with shading with or without optimizers. Some might be at 3% gain with optimizers, that's not worth it, and I bet that they will fail before the panels does. Keep it simple, use string inverter instead is my tip. And what I have done😎
Glad to see this, it's exactly what we have just decided to install after a fair bit of research.
Another great video with lots of useful information. I'm not a fan of roof installations but this one has made me want to revisit it so perhaps I will be converted.
Glad you enjoyed it
I wish these bi-facial panels were around when I ordered my system in 2017.
To be honest the advantage is minimal if installed on a room. The less light and reflection comes from the back the smaller the gains.
If using biface panels - would it make them even better if you paint the roof white underneath them (with some solar reflective paint)?
If you get a DC-coupled battery, you save the same amount of space. Instead of having an inverter for the panels, then a rectifier for the battery, then an inverter for the battery, you only need one inverter for the whole system. Our 10kW+10kWh system is just one battery-width wide and 1.7m high. And a good 25cm of that height is a heating pipe passing through the middle.
Great informative video. Would it increase the output if you painted the tiles behind the panels white?
Enjoyable watching your videos. Great job.
Glad you like them!
Great video! Interesting about the enphase system
Glad you liked it!
Nice to hear the metric system being used :D. I wonder these micro inverters... x of these modules out in the elements? How long do they last what does it cost... Efficiency?
One thing you lose from putting a home battery outside is heat! Most ppl tell their battery to charge in winter at night on cheap off-peak electric and the inverter might lose 5% electricity in the AC-DC process of filling the battery. Put it outside you're contributing to global warming vs inside where the waste heat is heating your house!!! Also IP65 or whatever - it's going to be more reliabel indoors than outdoor! Also DC batteries don't like freezing conditions, or 35C - put a home battery outside, in -10C in winter it will throttle it's charging to 50% or less! Not good charging off-peak in winter when it's going to be below freezing! And it won't like being 35C in the sun in summer! Put it in a utility room that's 15-20C all year and it's going to be well happy and last longer!
best practice is outside these days.
If anything goes wrong with the Enphase inverters (or they need replacing after 10/15 years, I assume that's a scaffolding up job?
Big thumbs up for Enphase from us 👍
Great to see another video from y’all. Interesting kit too. Gotta just tell you, one of my neighbours had solar fitted a few weeks ago, I didn’t see it done as the firm was only there one day, three faces of roof all done from ladders !!! Then next day they noticed the gutter hanging off and next house down had hanging tiles missing where they’d clouted them. Finally, Sheila asks me how they’re held on, ‘are they tied because it looks like something over the ridge’?? Sure enough, the cables from the west set don’t enter the roof, they’re pulled tight over the roof hip tiles and under the south set 😖 Not reassuring to see, can’t imagine it’ll last long
Meter Fixer is going to love working in that meter cabinet.
I would mount all inverters under the first, lowest row of panels. Installation with some short DC extensions from the panels. This will come handy for maintenance e.g. when you have to replace a faulty inverter.
Is there any mileage in fitting a UV reflective sheet or panel between the tiles and the panels? Clearly this would be a better option if these panels were to be used as a roofing material - i.e. build UV reflection into the insulation below the sealed panel...
Or.... you have a bypass diode on your panel ! All the newer panels have one and it comes for free. There are videos out there which show that they render balancers useless.
have you ever installed Photo Voltaic Thermal panels which can do heating as well as electrical generation
Snake oil.
Hey Guys. Good and neat job on the install. Pro Handyman here - quick question. Will these new panels be applicable for Van Roof use? Thanks and keep it up.
We had 12 Enphase micro inverters fitted to our array in 2013. One failed about 2015 but was replaced under guarantee. Otherwise no issues at all
When was the iso and Henley block installed after the meter?
A great idea, especially here in Australia! I'd only seen these panels mentioned in solar fence installations I think. Awesome. Enphase are powering along (pun intended) in Aus.
Glad it was helpful!
I think a £50 grinder with a thin blade would beat the £300 Hilti on that cutting job, another tool battle required maybe.
Most metal grinding disks clog up when used on aluminium. Tungsten carbide tipped circular saws work well though!
@@robinbennett5994 Your right most do but there are some specifically for aluminium, in my experience the problem with carbide tipped saws in hand held devices is that they can kick back and can be dangerous but fine in a bench mounted saw, I owned a business for 25 years cutting aluminium extrusions.
Nice vid just had 15x bifacials on my install last month, with enphase inverters and IQ5P battery, kept my system all enphase interesting the battery here is a alpha. Was a Envoy needed? I thought that was how the app worked? I never put bird protection into my install but looking to retro fit myself, seen the clenergy kit for around £115 which is plastic not metal like these. Just add while browsing for those bird guards noticed clenergy end caps! Installer did not fit these and well there only 50p so think I'll be getting those too my OCD kicked in, I know they probably have zero functionality
you also have others companies with microinverters, biggest problem is this if one of them fail client have to pay one more time installation cost for change, but less risk of fire, easier to install. Do you install blitz protection also in england? Germany/Poland/Austria install 16mm PE grounding wire between profiles under panels, and we connect this to main grounding point in house. And on DC solarcable you should cut only 6mm of isolation while mc4 making :D
Excellent video as always!! Can the pigeons or other birds not get through the gaps in the bird protector? It looks very wide??
Thanks! Whilst they do look wide, they do well at keeping the birds away.
What's the bird protection link or name pls
Hi what rails and brackets are they, were trying to move away from ours as they have changed the design and there not as good ?
yeh i got enphase IQ7A with my panels 18mnths ago, great to be able to monitor each panel just be aware each micro-inverter only outputs 349w
They might only output 349w but how often in the UK would PV's generate at it's full power, plus you'll never have to worry about panel degradation over time.
@@Mavisto2 no complaints here, but I seen ppl with 440w panels and ask why production so low in strong sun.
If you put a reflective sheet under the panels it would massively increase the generation from the back.
Mirror finish roof tiles/slates under PV are the future😂
The reverse is true. You need to cool the back of the panels in warmer places as they lose efficiency when warm.
@@hughM9 Is peak summer generation more valuable than winter generation? Self-consumption gives a better return, I believe - so winter probably pays better (so long as the configuration actually helps with this scenario)
@hughM9 Your wrong! If you increase the % of the generation of the reverse side by as little as 20%, it would outweigh the efficiency reduction. Example... 1/3 extra hourly generation would make the 0.32% lower efficiency per 1°c higher heat (over 25°c), even at 40°c, panels are still 95% efficient. Basically, increasing 33% of reverse facing faces, would only reduce generation by maximum of 5%! Do your own calculations, then reply when you realise I'm right.
I'm really interested in seeing some whole-year data for the bifacial panels - I have plenty of space for a 9kWp array, just need to work out the best way to optimise capital vs return (particularly winter performance).
Wish you had included some footage and walkthrough of the the equipment that the panels all connect to , must be some kind of controller which also connects the panels up to an app as shown for monitoring purposes
Do the enphases pass the UK grid isolation requirements now? I read they used to require a gateway, hopefully they fixed that :)
Can that Alpha ESS hybrid inverter battery support 3 phase discharge in a power outage?
Where is the Envoy? This REA Fusion panel is a premium Australian product designed for harsh climates. The front and rear surfaces are bonded "glass on glass" so it should last. There is no plastic backing sheet to peel off /de-laminate over time.
Skill saw to cut the rail is definitely the fastest, but it throws chips everywhere, so unless you have a blower, it's probably not the best
The person operating the reciprocating saw doesn't know how to use a reciprocating saw. For maximum effectiveness you need to keep your material up against the guard.
Interesting to note the bird guard is designed to allow ventilation up behind the panels, would be concerned about the temperature buildup behind the panel given the inverters are there, so would be nice to know the inverter operating temp range
The operating range is "fit for purpose". Those things are designed to operate under panels on rooftops.
Ayeeee. Just came from a past video and was wondering why you guys don’t use inverters lol. As a installer I love them😂
Our first set of 16 solar panels on our East-West facing roof has two Sunny Boy inverters and was installed well over 10 years ago. Our second set was installed in 2019, 14 panels, and Enphase micro inverters. Both systems generate broadly the same amount of electricity. Our first set of panels need cleaning now, and we are wondering about the merit of switching them over to a micro inverter system when we get them cleaned. The Sunny Boy inverters still work so really we should only replace them when they break, it's just that we're a bit suspicious that they are coming to end of life. We haven't had any quotes yet. We're in Leigh on Sea.
Enphase microinverters have a 25 year warranty I believe, I've had them for many years but as someone above said 10 years and more is common, they are rock solid, if it ain't broke, don't fix it as they say! I just re-read what you said, you've got a string setup for one setup and microinverters for the others, I still wouldn't mess with it if its all working. The downside to string arrays is the larger inverter might fail and take them all out (that string I mean), but if its working I'd leave it that way.
How about painting the roof under the solar panels with reflective paint is that going to improve productivity
I have heard about this in a few comments now.🤔
Do you need an envoy device per micro inverter as well?
I assume the battery is AC coupled? Do you still get a grant for micro inverters?
Do you have any problems fitting sola to slate roofs ?
You could always spray the roof white or fit good old radiator backing foil before the panels are fitted! 10-20% increase in efficiency vs. roof tiles?
Please just note that the IQ7+ are rated at 290w so great you have fancy panels but during most of the summer months that extra power the panels produce with be clipped by the inverters. Will get a bit more during the winter months admitedly with the bifacing panels but the inverters wont be enough in summer. I have iq7+ and get xlipping already in April with basic 395w panels. Hopefully the customer got a deal on the panels.
I have a question if the micro inverters feed the battery and the house the house is okay but for the battery, you will need to use a lithium battery that complies with the conversion between AC to dc, and in night it will feed back to the home so you need an inverter there am I right?
Can the bifacial panels be mounted vertically such as on walls and fences? I would have thought they could be much more effective in more northern areas where the sun is lower for most of the year. I think the average roof angle of around 30° is too shallow so reckon a steeper angle or even vertical might work better, especially in the winter when the energy is needed most.
I saw a video suggesting vertical mounting was effective (so long as both sides are exposed). Varies depending if you get snow cover or not, etc.
Had the Enphase micro inverters for almost 2 years now and it's been great!
I fitted solar panels to my garage 5 years ago, panel wattage was 300w. Now i can get 450w bifacial panels of around the same size massively cheaper than my original panels. I'm abit undecided about micro inverters. You might get more efficiency but if one of them breaks or packs up you need a scaffold to remove and replace. Scaffolding is expensive. The main benefit of micro inverters is shading of panels on a string. this no longer such a big issue as alot of panels now feature methods of mitigating shade across a string.
Single panels can fail, then everything might go down. Atleast with micros, you know which exact one is down.
If one goes down, you're down 1 panel / inverter. If a panel fails on a string inverter, you might be just out the panel, or you might be out the string. Also, you might not know where the fault is. Also, I like that it's 240VAC vs 500VDC. A lot safer in my opinion. I've DIY'd 2 enphase 10kw installs, and it's definitely more expensive, but the ease / data is awesome. Their tech support was great as well.
in UK you will get 60-70% of rated peak power output of panel 450W will give you 270W-315W MAX typical power whole year round Microinverter will live quite long Enphase IQ8A have 25 years warranty Be advised most microinverters are dying of too high voltage, not due age or random dying. I have fitted hundreds myself. I have seen exactly 5 dead. One random. 4 died of too high voltage If you have no shading, then skip micros, unless you want to avoid DC. Be advised DC should be avoided only because of DC arc is much harder to stop DC shock is much better, then what they show. I have got over 700V on both hands (plus on one hand, minus on other) from Live panels on roof. It was OK, not particularly fun, but definitely I wasn't screaming. My boss wouldn't know, ig I haven't told him and he was standing right behind me. I do not recommend to test it yourself tough - it is not fun.
@@fgbhrl4907 NOT TRUE One panel going down in string means, bypass diodes are taking over and you are losing one panel. I have seen it with microinverter and panel dropped 1/3 of its rated power.
@@WizardNumberNext I can tell you from real world experience on my own home, that I lost a string (out of 3) because a panel failed. The junction box ended up melting, and the entire string went offline. With a string system without optimizers, I didn't know that the string had gone offline, other than I was generating less than I was expecting. It happened in the winter, so I didn't immediately put two and two together. Probably took 6 months to really notice something was happening.
I'm a spark but don't know enough about solar to install it - thinking of doing a solar course got sparks. What do you think of the American Market of people doing DIY solar themselves?? There are a few videos online and know someone who had done a solar set up but wants me to check it out, which I'm very uncomfortable doing?
An interseting watch to learn more of the newer technology!
Actually I am grateful to find this channel ❤
What’s the cost comparison between these and normal panel
27 pence........;)
It's pretty hard to say, as there's a fairly wide spread of panel prices, and the bifacial panels aren't the most expensive ones. However the cheapest panels are about £57, and the cheapest bifacial panels are about £71 - so you could say they're 20% more, which matches that performance boost. However the panels are the cheapest part of the install. Those micro-inverters are £175 each, the batteries are a few thousand and the scaffolding and labour add a fair bit too.
Just curious here. If you put some reflective material under the solar panels (like aluminium paper), wouldn't it give you even more solar output?
what about a reflective screen under the pannel?
What date was this system installed?
What happens if an individual inverter fails? How do you get a panel off in the middle of a string?
Perhaps some reflective materials should be placed under the panels to reflect more light??? Like the foil you might sometimes see behind radiators?
Can you retrofit these mini inverters to an existing system.
So possibly the best question I can think of is can you use the Bi-facial panels on an in-roof system and still gain the benefit.
Finally I am trying to get bifacial panels in the UK for a year now. The technology exists but the gatekeepers prevent the better technology in the UK. It is very difficult when you try to hire somebody to do any job. 100% of the companies in the UK try to rip you off and the good ones such as Artisan are not available in specific areas. Bifacial solar PV is so much cheaper than the traditional panels. People need to understand that if they install the old non-bifecial panels they just waste money. Now I see 660w panels in standard dimensions. This is great. Bifecial can be used as a normal setup with an inverter. The micro inverters could potentially put you in more expense if you fail. If there is a solution for micro inverters to be installed away from the roof that would be much better
Loving your work boss
Much appreciated
I find that Hoymiles microinverters do much better than Enphase with modern 400+Wp panels. Also with OpenDTU you have a way superior and more privacy minded solution than with crappy phone apps which need a cloud and can go down at any time the manufacturer feels like it.
Would like to see more side-by-side comparisons of bifacial panels - a 20% gain on top of 420w panels is HUGE in the solar industry where people talk about 1-2% gains normally between panels.
With the bi-facial panels, why not mirror-back them with a reflective panel behind? It could be fitted under the rails or as part of the panel itself.
Have you tried hoymiles? Seems good alternative also
Could I suggest an extra component to these videos; it would be really good to see a diagram of the system with good labels so we can study and understand.
Can you walk on top those? They look like they dont hold weight. Looks reallyyy good. Just some jobs require people to walk on solar panels sadly. So if you need your roof worked on or fumigated...idk. Do recommend getting sturdy panels that can hold weight if your putting them on your house.
the main problem is that you have too much solar in the summer & not enough in the winter (maybe 10 times lower?) to keep warm? (20% more power in the summer is fine, but 20% of nearly nothing Nov-Feb = Nothing also)
well the idea is you sell the power back to the grid during times you don't need all of it, to get credit on your bill in the winter
Design for winter, so more panels (normal panels will do in winter and are 'cheap'). Size your inverter for spring/autumn (max out in summer). With grid capacity as it is, and more people installing solar, selling back to the grid will become less attractive. The cost driver for inverters is capacity, skip all the additions for panel optimization (as they are expensive and will not give sufficient return on investment during winter). You will end up with an installation using more space for the same capacity, but a more level power production over the seasons. And the savings on inverter and optimization will pay for the additional panels.
Think I would like to have the microinvertors mounted just under the edge of the solar panels on the roof. Giving access to test or replace the units without need to remove panels.
I’m confused, micro inverters have been around for around 12 years in the UK, is that deemed new 😅 Bifacial have been around for even longer but obviously at lower cell efficiencies. I’d be interested to know which panel they used to get the 20% difference in output and is that 20% more over a day, week, year or just one moment in time. From the quotes I’ve seen, the REA Fusion (Heatable) and Enphase equipment carries a hefty premium over many other brands and string or optimiser based systems so you’ve got to compare the ROI and the possibility of scaffolding for repair and assess shading issues of course.
Have you ever seen a datasheet for the REA Fusion 2 panels?🤔
Where did you get the bird protection from?
I really hope this technology is better than the others, as I have just signed up to have it installed with heatable. I looked at a website the competition supplied, and all the advantages seemed to point to micro-inverters!
Could you use a micro inverter in campervan build?
enphase may be good for 1-phase-systems or grids, but when you have three-phase it is a nightmare to check that every phase is hook up as big as the other ones ... hate it. And its the same with enphase batterie systems ...
I am with the FIT scheme and my panels are the maximum allowed ie 4kw under the scheme, if I retrofit this system will I be in breach of my FIT contract by going over my 4kw
I'm really Interested to understand how the panel prices compare with 'traditional' panels. Sorry if i missed it in the video but how does the 20% increase in efficiency stand up against the increase in cost of the panels when reflected as the resulting kWh reduction in grid cost/dependency?
They are slightly more expensive, maybe 5-10% more in terms of cost per panel. So worth the investment I think.
The panels retail at around £500 each according to Heatable's website.
@@VinoVeritas_ wow you can buy 5/6 400w panels for that price, total rip off.
@@jonthecont Artisan is a rip-off merchant himself, so that's why he's attracted to Heatable.
@@VinoVeritas_ I looked round and other people's bifacial panels are a fraction of that number they use, so something rip off is up there. Seems the whole industry is a it one way or another.
why diddent you use the iq8HC for these 420 watt panels ?
So more of an issue here in Oz we have had MicroImvs for at least a decade now...with our hotter climate there is always an issue of the Degrigatiom of haveing electronics on the roof vs in the shade lower, however from am other angle if you loose 1 inverter then you are still generating...hope you compare these on your Micro inverter breakdown ( excuse the pun)
If you get extra light reflecting off the roof on to the rear of the panel, why don’t you fit a reflective foil panel directly on to the rear of the panels and increase ten fold the rear reflection.
Bifacial panels might be good for van solar panels?