Why Mooney Aircraft Failed - the M20 Problem
When Mooney announced that it had shut down its factory in Kerrville, Texas, and furloughed more than 200 workers, that is, more than two-thirds of its workforce, it was both strange and unexpected. By our count, the company has changed hands 11 times in its 65 or so years in Texas, which is one change of ownership about every 6 years. This time around it’s been exactly six years since the oddly named Soaring America Corporation purchased Mooney’s assets. Someone else will buy the company before long. In the meantime, it’s bad for the employees who are out of a job.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction
01:06 - Exterior/Design
02:10 - Interior
03:04 - Engine
03:30 - Performance
04:29 - Avionics
05:27 - Systems
06:00 - Market
13:23 - Pros
14:04 - Cons
15:15 - Conclusion
#Mooney #MooneyM20
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Funny with all the new technology since 2008, the Acclaim (Ultra) goes the same max speed…242KTS. I was a test pilot for them…I know. The roll cage had the 1 door for strength. I like the 2 doors. Kerrville, Texas is a small town an hour outside San Antonio where Mooney’s are made and kind of on the edge of the frontier. Not a lot of execs want to live there. VERY nice and hard working folks at the factory.
You nailed a key problem. Few high level performance CEOs want to live in the boonies.
It wasn’t the Mooney’s company 20th design… It was Al Mooney’s 20th design… 😃
It’s funny you think the Cirrus is a “more advanced aircraft” when the Mooney is faster with less fuel burn. The Mooney is the more advanced airframe design. The Mooney has always had a problem with lower gross weight. This could probably be solved today by using composite materials like carbon fiber to increase its wing loading characteristics. But that is going to take an investment I don’t see many making. It’s a shame that one of the best GA airframes is going by the wayside. I guess the Mooney lovers can always take solace in the fact that the “M” in TBM stands for Mooney.
Efficiency in flight. I flew 2300 hrs over 25 yrs in M20J s/n 1090. READ that first line. Then KLGB Anchòrage
In M20R. Great pilots plane.
Can’t agree the Mooney airframe is more advanced than the Cirrus. It sure has lots and lots of parts..like all the individual tubes that make up the cockpit framing and landing gear. This construction technology goes back to the 30s. With gross weight is locked down by the spar, as more do dads were added, the useful load diminished to where the back seats were adornments. Nevertheless the M20 is a top performer! 😊 Some entrepreneur ought use an early Mooney wood wing and tail as mold plugs. Rebirth the M20 in composites to reclaim useful load and a bit more speed. It’s just money, say 5-8 million. Cheers. D
I wish 🙏 I could afford to own a Mooney M20
I would take a nice M20 over a Cirrus.
Better is a relative thing. I owned a M20K for 10 years it was a great aircraft. Every bit as capable as SR-22. It was just more plane than I really needed. I now fly a Grumman AA-5B Tiger every bit as capable as as the SR20 at fraction of the cost. A good alternative. The Parachute was not a big selling point for me. But I guess it is for many. I would say what put Cirrus on top was definitely the Marketing hype.
Would you teach me how to fly?
I've had a Mooney Bravo (M20M) for almost 20 years now. It's an absolute blast to fly, and maintenance continues to be inexpensive. I have yet to see extra costs from the retractable gear. I'm assuming the main reason for the success of the SR22 over the M20's is marketing, because it certainly isn't capabilities. The parachute on the SR22's is a nice feature, but it masks some corners of the flight envelope where the aircraft has some nasty handling characteristics. Its certification was obtained by assuming that pilots would use the parachute if they encounter them. I don't believe any SR22's have turned into lawn darts because of that, but it's important to remember that the parachute is not there ONLY for the "added safety". I also know of at least one accident where the parachute was shredded to bits as the SR22 lawndarted into the ground. I wouldn't hesitate to pick the Mooney again over the SR22 if faced with the same choice I had all those years ago.
Same feelings for the other brand. After having flown a Bonanza, I would never buy anything else
The Mooney Chinese owners didn't want to invest money into designing an airplane with the BRS and let it die. Around the time the Chinese Mooney went belly up, the Chinese real estate market basically imploded and most of the capital money used to finance for the Mooney turn around, became dried up. This was very similar with the engine company Continental after the Chinese owners bought the company. It never invest enough money and the new engines promised by Continental never materialized. This is a cautionary tale about teaming up with any Chinese company. Just look at the global market, many western companies are quickly de-couple themselves from China.
They should have brought back the M20J with a Garmin G3X and Lycoming 4 cylinder turbo priced just under $500,000.00 not 1 million.
If you think the Cirrus looks better than a Mooney you just don't like planes it is that simple. The Mooney is one of the best looking planes in the world one of them not the but one of them for sure. The Cirrus just looks like ever other modern bulb plane.
I hope Mooney has a future
I think it is debatable wheather certifying it for parachute recovery would have saved this aircraft. Many customers may have been turned off when the company became foreign owned.
I love this video, You can make une this one of the piagio avanty Evo.
I agree… I don’t think the BRS would have worked as an option given the weight constraints of the Mooney - I love the M20, it’s a great aircraft - hopefully the company will find a buyer and restart production soon
Mooney is not foreign owned. Cirrus is. And it hasn’t hurt their sales.
Mooney was Chinese owned for a bit. Now it’s owned by an owners group, but aren’t currently building aircraft.
Turbos are an advantage at low density altitudes (high altitude and/or hot); not a disadvantage. Although it's true that retractable gear results in higher maintenance costs, the most significant disadvantage is the higher likelihood of accidents (Gear up landings) and as such, much higher insurance costs with everything else being equal. I'm curious whether Dwayne is a pilot....
This is a classical management failure problem. To state the problem the most simply, the hardest job of any company is the creation of competent leaders - traditionally at the VP and CEO Levels. But in smaller companies the VP moniker is not appropriate. Mooney failed because it failed to replace the top leadership with people who could bring the company to a competitive status and maintain competitive status with other GA small plane manufacturers.
Having flown the Mite, Mk21 and Bravo, I can attest to the remarkable performance of the design. They are pilot friendly but do require attention to speed numbers as they are very slick and give Newton a run for the money.
How does the autopilot insure a smooth and quiet ride?
Have you flown a Mooney and/or a Cirrus? If not….
Modifications longer body for example and improvements (all due respect to the Mooney designers, great efforts) done to the a/c to accommodate passengers were perhaps like trying to carrry passengers on Formula One F1 racing cars. Perhaps (again perhaps and maybe) the short-body M20C or more likely the M20J was the last authentic one that still retained all the qualities that Mooney was known for, best aerodynamics, adorable retractable gear, or low economical fuel consumption for example.
If you were to give me the Keys and Title I would Happily smile Really BIG and say Thank You VERY Much!!! 🤠👍
Awesome aircraft - I would buy one
Excellent video. Production quality is top notch. Really enjoyed watching!
My favorite Mooney is the m201j and Mooney basically pushed themselves out of the market while they offered the best product in my opinion
I agree. I own a M20J and very happy with it. I think it would be nice to have a 2023 M20 with manual landing gear but glass cockpit (even though I like the simplicity of my steam gauges). Same little IO 360 but with modern improvements.
Mooneys are the best!!
I fly the Carenade Mooney in MSFS. I'm looking to buy a real plane in the near future but I'll probably get a Piper Arrow for the maintenance costs.
Flew an M20J ("201") from 1982 to 1998 all around the USA and Canada for both business and pleasure. Just amazing speed for the horsepower. Built like a tank. Unlike many other aircraft (Beech, Cessna, Piper) to my knowledge there's never been a structural failure. And I burned typically 10gph with the 200hp Lycoming! Not a heavy load carrier, but then the M20J could temporarily pretend it was an M20K (its turbo brother) and mimic an increase in load by 160 lb by just using the near-identical M20K's V speeds--about 5 Kt higher. Now with aviation 100LL avgas so expensive it would be ripe for a revival. Simplest rebirth would be to simply recreate all the fuselage panels in carbon fiber. Hundreds of pounds right there, and straightforward recertification. High points: speed, fuel efficiency, ruggedness, low maintenance Low points: load carrying, smaller cabin (like a sports car) Very easy to fly and solid like a rock under IFR (unlike the V-tail Bonanza). But nail your target speed on short final or you'll float halfway down the runway due to the efficient wing low to the ground. And never touch down on the nosewheel first. Pull the yoke back while saying "Whoa!" The old joke is that the way to make a million bucks in aviation is to start with two million. But, man, this aircraft's bloodlines are primo and the thing is remarkably fast while frugal on the avgas. Perhaps something to tickle Elon's fancy...
@Skyking6976 This video is visually engaging, with a fast-paced narration that features the Mooney Acclaim Type S., with the word "failed" thrown in as clickbait. The premise of the piece is that rhe airplane failed, which is BS. If anything, the basic airframe is a longstanding success. That airframe really only needs an innovative engine (maybe a recip-electric hybrid?) and pressurization to be off to the races again. The idea that the SR-22 is comparable is just more BS., at least in terms of airframe solidity and workmanship. As for marketing failure--more BS on top of the other BS. Just need to find the right people to market to: People who have a need for speed while going high and far. People who could use a simpler , well-designed hybrid cockpit w/o 3 big televisions staring back at them. In short, can you sing "O, Canada?" Try for 300 mph for right around 1 M, w a range of 3000 nm.
It was the 'parachute' thing. I'm a trained pilot and buying my own plane, I would still buy the one with BRS. Why? To be safer while night flying, flying over water or mountains. With the pricetag both planes have, both should have BRS.
To think Beechcraft would sell a lot more with two doors, but they don’t mind letting cirrus take those sales.
I sold new Mooneys. Overpriced garbage. FBO’s hated towing them. The windscreen was like a heat engine. The engine always ran hot from lack of ventilation. Once , the yoke came off in my hands, leaving me with a naked rod…straight out of the factory. But, they were pretty. Glad they’re out of business.
What a load of bull. (1) No problem towing them, just don't crank the nosewheel beyond the limits. (2) Flew an M20J ("201") into Palm Springs many times. Didn't notice this feature. (3) Engine never "ran hot." There's a thing called "cowl flaps." Use them. (4) Yoke came off? Yeah? Suggest you obviously never sold ANY aircraft, let alone Mooneys.
Oh really? Bottom line: Mooney failed, many times, spectacularly. Pure garbage. Cope and seethe, chump.@@richardiredale3128
Worked FBO' for ten years. Towing Mooneys are no different than Cessnas. Nobody complained. I have hundreds of hours in Charlies and Juliet models and have never ever seen nor heard of anything you implied.
There's a reason Mooney's went 5X bankrupt...they suck, and they break. Biggest mistake I ever made was moving from Cessna to Mooney.@@mdskydive7245
I don't get all the emphasis on having a chute. Don't flight schools teach pilots how to glide in the event of an engine failure anymore?
I think Mooney started to fall of the rails is when they forgot about branding and tried to compete in markets that didn't fit the image. A Mooney was always known as the economy champ, the manual gear Mooney's along with speed for the horsepower were what made the Mooney what it was. The naming of airplanes was important for recognition, the M20C Ranger, M20F for the Executive which became the 201 M20J, 231 M20K, 252 M20K etc. Once at the airport, the discussion of which Mooney was what IE the Eagle, Acclaim, Bravo, etc. was confusing. I get it, the executives knew they needed an answer to the Cirrus for speed, but let's face it, America is getting fat or is fat! Hindsight tells us that the M20C "Ranger" should have been in flight schools considering commercial pilot/CFI training in a complex airplane, while the M20J should have continued as a low cost high performance airplane, and develop a totally new model for room and speed using the unique all-moving vertical tail look, along with the wing that is about as efficient as it goes, but with a new roomy fuselage. Once consideration that adds truth to my statements, is the Piper Malibu sells OK, and the CIrrus with fixed gear means a private pilot can buy insurance and get performance, whereby a low time pilot w/out instrument rating buying insurance is very difficult.
What does twin six cylinder radiators mean?
Maybe twin intercoolers. Or maybe twin oil coolers.
I think it's wide open for investors. Get the parachute approved by FAA, figure out aerodynamically how to make slight increase in Useful Load. Change out the engine to 300hp, offer a Turbo Version. Use KZhead Promoters to Spread the News. Excitement would grow and you sell 75 planes first year then 125 2nd year and so on...
I have time in the M20 . It is a little nose heavy and really small inside .
Just what is meant by "nose heavy?" CG is utterly normal for a general aviation aircraft, and the elevator provides ample authority on landing.
On rotation the nose will drop and can bounce the nose gear , that don#t leave much room for prop clearance but if you pull on the yoke a little more won't much of an issue .@@richardiredale3128
The problem with the Mooney is they pushed it too far, it was best with a 4 cyl lycomings.
Probably true. I have lots of time in the 201 and 231 variants. That 6 cylinder sounds like a VERY expensive engine to operate and maintain for an owner-flown airplane. But of course I have no direct experience...because it cost too much!!
Today… I lost respect for GA Insider… I didn’t think Cirrus would stoop so low in bashing competition…
Recycled video from other sources… The only thing original is the use of the word failure… True baloney… The Mooney Company is still alive. Supporting their existing customers… 😃 I get it… it is a Cirrus ad!!! 😂😂😂😂 - a -
The Cirrus ‘more elegant and modern’ and a ‘better and more advanced aircraft’ than the Mooney? Going to have to disagree with you there…
I will never understand how anyone would choose a Cirrus instead of a Mooney, or a Bonanza. Performance numbers are approximately the same in any of the planes, the one outperforming the other in one of many aspects, but the latter are real planes with retractable gear, Cirrus planes not only look bulky, they also are! And the parachute may be some kind of safety feature, but you also have to pay a rather high price for a feature in terms of maintenance which you will most likely never have to use.
The paint schemes kinda suck.
This shows like a vice video, with recycled video material, nothing original other than conjecture. There's so much hearsay and zero subject matter expertise. You'd be better off having a ai chatbot write an article.
He read a Plane & Pilot article and became an expert :)
Plus the name “Mooney” is a bad name. It sounds kookie.
They are the worst aircraft to work on for mechanics.
Why?
Maintenance on Mooney's really sucks
Says who? My mechanic did mostly Piper and Cessna but had no issues with my Mooney 201.
@@richardiredale3128 try the m20 series they are a maintenance nightmare, especially the accessories