How Much It Costs To Own An Airplane | My Exact Numbers | Mooney M20C
A common question, how much does it really cost to own and fly your own airplane. Here are my exact numbers for 2020. I know these costs are subject to change, maybe even dramatically year to year, but as this was the first year of ownership, it felt it important to share. Overall I love owning an airplane, and in my case the costs are manageable. I will say, if you think it's going to be a stretch financially, it is probably not the wisest decision.
www.bonfire.com/store/aviatio...
Detailed Mooney Walkaround - • My $35,000 Airplane - ...
0:00 - Intro
0:36 - The details of my Mooney
3:00 - Cost of Insurance
3:45 - Storage (Hangar)
4:40 - Maintenance
5:55 - Fuel
6:30 - Totals / hourly breakdown
7:10 - Is it worth it?
#generalaviation #mytimetofly #mooney
Many of you have asked in the comments what my purchase price was for the Mooney, and why I left it out of the video. Below is a video going into some depth regarding the purchase. kzhead.info/sun/hd2ilsx9oqaOnqs/bejne.html
My name is Robert Jensen and I came closest to the cost on your annual cost for itemized repairs but the prize of items you were given out was not received to you yet! And you told me that once received you would contact me and send out my prize items! Months have went by and I have not seen a prize at my doorstep or a contact back to me that you were ready to send to me... Go back and check your videos or ask me and then we can connect and you can send me my prize winnings. Thanks and I await your comment to me! That's why I'm being polite and sending to you and not to the community that's it's been so long and I don't have your promised prize as that would make us both feel bad. Please return my request with a message to me and we can talk about this! Thanks!
Messaged you back on the other comment. Sorry again man.
Okay, we got lost in understanding... The 2 winners on 2 different items for the annual maintenance cost. There's a video on a total cost for a list of repairs a year ago. The request in the video was two items for two winners. 1st was the closest cost to the most expensive single repair item. 2nd was the total overall cost of the annual cost for All the Items discussed in the video. I got the closest to the overall itemized annual maintenance cost. But no contact came back to me - When you got your give away items came in to ship out to us. Hope this sheds the light that it was never about the total cost of the plane, yet the the itemized list to do the required annual listed repairs. Ok, let me know if you remember, because if you don't, I'm going to just give up typing to you.!!! Thank you and God Bless!
Don’t give up on me, you did win, I just need some info from you. Send me an email at the address below and I can get what I need. Highflying121@gmail.com
@@MyTimeToFly WOW.. Lots of Responsibility! Insurance, Hangar Rent, Maintenance, Fuel, and a pilot's training and certification. I'll stick to Cars.. lol RIch Man's Hobby. I'm in Texas.. Probably 20 times more! ugh.
Several years ago, I set up a small corporation to own/operate a M20C valued at $75k (IFR, A/P, speed mods, low time engine + engine reserve). The structure made it easy for shareholders to switch out over the years. We (5 owners, 3 active) flew ~200hrs/year. Our costs were $500/mo (fixed cost: hanger and insurance, split between shareholders) plus $100/hr (variable cost: fuel, maintenance reserve, and engine reserve). With this fee structure, we had the reserves to maintain our plane in excellent condition AND fully offset the engine depreciation/prepare for future overhaul. With the right structure and partners, a very affordable way to own an airplane. Performance/cost ratio - hard to outdo a nice M20C!
Such a great analysis Jay, sounds like you really had your stuff together!
@@MyTimeToFly I really miss our M20C - a job move forced me to sell my share. Best of luck with your Mooney - they're great planes!
Thanks a bunch Jay!
Uh at $100/hr you may as well rent...
If cost alone is your only factor, I agree. Airplane quality / availability tend to trump cost for many pilots.
1) Insurance- $2,074/yr 2) Hanger - $1953/yr 3) Maintenance- $2570/yr 4) Variables (Oils, nav lights) $3,000/yr 5) Fuel $2,025
Thanks for the summary!
Dang that’s expensive. Would owning a Cessna 150 be similar?
@@weirdthings9583if that’s expensive to you then you have no business flying
Great video, excellent breakdown of costs. I flew many, many hours in a 1963 Mooney as a kid with my Dad at the controls. Brings back so many memories!
Glad to help bring back some memories! We are loving the Mooney!
It's so cool you got into a vintage. An airframe older than yourself, such a chill time up there with her... beautiful!
Thanks man! In all honestly, I couldn’t afford anything newer!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Have you seen prices for newer airplanes? Newer (used) Cessna 172s can run $200k+, and a brand new 172 will set you back over $350k. The only buying option for most general aviation pilots that aren't absolutely LOADED are 40+ year old planes.
Completely agree, the prices are absolutely out of hand!
The last time I handled a "Mooney" was in the mid 70's. It had that beautiful all wood wing. I LOVED IT !
Yes, must have been an A or B model. I hear that wood wing is very smooth!
Yes! A late '50's model. I believe they converted to the "all metal" wing and tail about 1960. These were a "tight squeeze", but once seated, we did alright.
Very cool! Thanks for sharing your experience!
Wow we live at the Yucca Valley airport in Southern California's high-desert and were born in 1963 when this mans plane was built, not too sure I would still fly me LOL. our plane looks great we are proud you shared it and parts of your journey with us. Lance & Patrick.
So cool, this is my plane. Thanks for being here!
I've owned an M20C, much like this one, and an M20K. A couple of costs I had that he didn't include was the database updates for the GPS, and recurring flight instruction. While I was IFR, I had monthly sessions with an instructor to keep sharp, which I highly recommend. I have better cost data on the M20K, where I flew about 200 hours per year, and wound up with a cost of $100 per hour. Also, have a Mooney shop do the annuals and you'll same money. I used Dugosh in Kerrville (great folks). The more you fly the lower the hourly cost. If you need to save money, get a partner or two to share the plane. It's a great way to substantially lower the total cost of ownership.
I did have the cost of database updates buried in there somewhere, but your correct that I didn’t have any flight training. I guess I just figure you would have the same amount of training whether you owned or rented.
Former 1963 M20C owner here. I worked my numbers a little differently but they were about $500/mo for all fixed expenses (insurance, hangar, annual, etc.) plus hourly expenses which was about $100/hr (gas, maint, overhaul, etc.) It's expensive no matter how you look at it but I have no regrets doing it. Edit: these are 2018 numbers and it's now 2023. So it would probably cost $750/mo and $125/hr.
Thank you for sharing your approach, seems well thought out! I agree, it’s an adventure worth having.
Your method of calculation seems very logical! Fixed expenses are so called because they incur whether you fly or not. It therefore makes sense to calculate them and hourly usage expenses separately. My Time to Fly’s method’s calculated price (130$/h) likely reduces the more he flies, yours is probably more consistent.
Congratulations Sir. I'm not an aviator myself, but I sure do appreciate the flying community. I figure a man can only have so many interests and hobbies. With that said, sailing and flying would be some of them had I not been invested in others. Very informative video, thanks.
Thanks Jake! I too am a man of more than enough hobbies. It can be hard to juggle, but not you’re interested in flying, I’d recommend spending the couple hundred dollars and going on a discovery flight with an instructor. It might quickly move to the top of the priority list after such an experience!
Having been a plane owner myself, this video is a good depiction of the experience. Partnerships are great to reduce costs. Also, ownership isn't forever. When the fun runs out , you can always sell the plane. I went on to the MS2020 flight simulator and am having a ball with it - at a tiny cost of real flying....
Great comment John. You are spot on, it doesn't have to be forever. I'm glad you're able to stay connect through the sim world!
I had a few trial lessons but got more out of the sim tbh. I fly rc planes and fpv drones too, they give me the realistic experience that the sims lack. And for actual transport I use a car and a few different ebikes. Dont have to spend a fortune and get to fly at the field at the end of the street , in my back yard and even around the house lol.
Sounds pretty awesome man! Glad you can find ways to get your flying fix, that’s likely inspiration to many!
There is nothing like flying for real. I would get up in our club 172 and my wife and I would look at each other and think now what. We couldn't go far and it really became expensive just to go up and sight see and impress friends. I fly MSFS2020 in VR and have a full home pit with a Buttkicker and Jetseat. I love it and find myself enjoying it more. PLUS, When I have to pee, I can hit pause. Trust me, flying and having to go to the bathroom are not often talked about. And with FS, I can smoke a cigar and have a beer. In closing: There is nothing like flying for real.
@@100PercentAllAmericanMan thanks for that, makes me feel better about not getting my licence because of the expense. If I was mega rich I'd do it though. I'd probably go for helicopter then though because I had trial lessons in a Cessna, a glider and a helicopter, heli was by far the most fun closely followed by the glider but that might be because the instructor was ex military and really showed what could be done .
Great video! I appreciate someone who will share actuals vs just cost/flight hr.
My pleasure! Thanks for watching.
Love the video and the voice over dude !
Thank you for the kind words Nelson!
Thanks for producing this video. I was tinkering with the idea of buying a small plane. It's eye opening to see what a realistic yearly costing is for this hobby.
My pleasure man! There are cheaper option, and much more expensive of course. Glad it helped!
Hey there! I recently got my pilot's license, I posted a few videos about it on my channel and I can indeed say this is a great hobby.
Growing up my dad always had between 1 to 3 airplanes, and only once did he ever have a new aircraft (1968 Beechcraft Musketeer) which he got rid of after a few years because the cost of maintaining it exceeded that of all his other planes combined. He stuck with old Cessna and Aircoupe for the most part, and never did upgrade the instruments past the basics. He did virtually all the maintenance himself, and rented tie-down space instead of hanger. My brother approaches aircraft ownership the same way - owning a plane shouldn't really cost more than owning a car. Old planes are much less expensive to own.
Very cool story. I agree it shouldn’t cost near as much as it does. There are ways to keep the cost down for sure!
Nice video....glad you're enjoying your new Mooney. They are great planes and built very good. Also great speed and economy. I bought my '63 Mooney M20C about 5 years ago. Love flying it, but have been laid up for some medical issues for a while. But hoping to get back to it this year. I have some videos posted as well. Enjoy your plane and safe flying!! 👍
Thanks man, I have watched your videos...I really like how clean your panel is. I sure hope you're able to get back in the pilot's seat real soon!
@@MyTimeToFly thank you, I hope I get back soon to. I hope we can talk shop some day. You have a nice plane also. Keep up the good videos....I've enjoyed watching while I'm down. Take care.
Sounds great, you as well!
I know nothing about flying, but wow did I enjoy your video. Always fun to learn about new things.
Thanks Robert! I appreciate you watching!!!
I am a former plane owner. The Piper version of what you have, a Comanche 180, VFR only. I am surprised that your insurance costs were virtually the same as mine. Single owner low time to start. However I owned my plane in 1994 to 2004. I got my complex time in the bird helping a previous owner of the plane build instructor time. The ins company required 25 hours before I could go solo. My plane was in a shade port @ $65 a month (Southern AZ.) and I flew year round. Maintenance was a bit cheaper as I did pretty much all of it under supervision. Learned a lot and ended up working for my IA later on including getting my own A&P at Cochise College. Had some squacks but no real major repairs. Did replace the original prop due to a recurring AD. Went to a 3 blade scimitar blade prop, cost me about $6k but sold the old one to a pilot in Australia for $3k. Sold the plane for $4k more than I bought it. Miss the old girl but no reason to own or even rent now at my age.
Great story sir, thank you so much for sharing. The Comanche is an wonderful bird as well!
My wife and I owned a Piper PA2-250 (single engine retractable) and a Cessna 320B turbo-charged twin). It's important to read and understand just how much maintenance an owner is permitted by the FAA to do themselves. As a school-trained reciprocating engine mechanic (three US Army Schools), there were lots of engine items I could do myself. My father-in-law was a licensed Tech Inspector - so that helped a great deal! It also helped that I was a qualified military helicopter pilot (Vietnam, Bosnia, Iraq). For annual inspections, I towed the twin into the FBO's hangar (about a week before the scheduled inspection). I set up the jacks and performed required landing gear operations, engine compression tests, instruments - radio - navaids- autopilot tests, etc, under their supervision and had the FBO sign off on them for a clean and fresh slate. Early on inspection day (prior to the TI showing up), I removed ALL inspection panels on the Twin and had ALL books and materials ready and waiting. The cost of that annual inspection? $200.00 for his time, avoiding a potential $2,000.00 fee for most such inspections back in my day and location.
First, thank you for your service! What an incredible way to deeply know your airplane(s) and save money along the way!
Super informative for those of us aspiring! Thank you!
Right on man, glad to help.
Great info briefly and clearly presented! Thanks!
In undergrad, I had a professor with two airplanes. He had few other expenses, so I think those planes were his only splurge. His Volvo was from the 70s, his house was older than that. I'm sure his newest outfit was at least 20 years old. Our class went on a geology field trip and he entered a lottery to own a third airplane ($150). He didn't win that one, lol.
That's a pretty cool story of sacrifice! I guess that's why the truck I drive has 296,000 miles on it!
The other down-side to renting is that you can’t have the plane for more than a few hours at a time. If you wanted to use it to go somewhere for a few days, the rental can’t be out that long. It’s needed for flight lessons and instruction! I’ve just got my license at the same airport, FWIW. Will look to meet you there sometime.
I should have read this comment first, great job getting your PPL! I look forward to meeting you John.
Unless you are a member of a flying club. In my club we have a set price per hour of flying of $45. and if it's hangered in another airport the charge is one hour of flying. So If i fly some where that's two hours away, I stay there for two days and then fly back it'll cost me $270 for four hours of flying time and 48 hours of hanger time.
Is that $45 dry? Are there fuel costs on top?
@@MyTimeToFly yes it's dry. but it goes into a communal fund for that particular plane to cover annuals and broken instruments.
I see, very cool.
Also in Grand Rapids! Maybe I'll run into you one day when flying! Great video btw, very informational.
Thank you Brennan! It's a small city really, where do you fly out of?
This was worth a subscription for me :) great video
Thanks a bunch! I appreciate you being here!!!
The back of the napkin formula that used to work pretty well, back when mixtures were rich of peak, was: for every dollar you put in the fuel tank, put another dollar in the bank and at the end of the year we were pretty much covered. That was based on flying about 200 hours a year with no financing costs, no commercial insurance and no 100 hour inspections.
I think that formula still holds about true. Of course, as we all start to get more hours out of our engines (hopefully, thanks to Mike Busch) those numbers could start to change.
@@MyTimeToFly Thank you Mike indeed 🙌🏼
Absolutely
When you panned the camera to the right in the beginning of the video, I had flashbacks of GTA San Andreas as a kid lol flying out to sea to unlock the rest of the map.
Haha, pretty funny man! I have played GTA in ages!
Great video Cory! Looks like a fun aircraft to fly!!
Thank you kindly! Most definitely, fast and fun!
A good honest review of the cost to own. nice video.
Thanks so much Kenny.
The annual cost, in my experience, can be pretty high. I used to own a 1974 C172M and I've paid as much as $8000 for an annual. It can vary, but if a lot of parts need to get changed, then it can be pricey. The general rule of thumb to buy vs rent is approximately 100 hours a year. That, of course, varies from airframe to airframe, but if you fly less than that, it's better to rent. More than that, it's better to own. My own experience with aircraft ownership proved that number to be true.
I agree that the 100 hour mark is a pretty solid baseline. There are some intangibles that can move that needle around a bit.
i think the key here to seperate ownership from renting is 2 things. one you can fly it somewhere and stay a few days and come back, not possible with renting, and two the more hours you fly it the more the fixed cost will be divided out so fuel cost will go up but instead of maintenance and hanger costs being divided into 50 hours it could be 200
Good thoughts. Being able to stay a few days without hesitation is the biggest benefit to me.
Been waiting for another great video for the longest time from you. I had planned on doing about 30 hrs in my Mooney by yr end, but I only managed 15.2. It's been a struggle starting her overall as the engine keeps getting flooded, or battery getting drained in the cold weather. Expence wise, getting a cover for the plane, tail beacon which was installed for free, and a portable adsb receiver are things I needed. What I have spent so far and monthly payments is still way less than if I was renting.
That’s great to hear, that your paying less than renting. I struggled quite a bit with cold weather starting, but have it down pretty good now. I would highly recommend a trickle charger for the battery, makes a world of difference!
@@MyTimeToFly I've gotten one of those 4 in one jumpers. Tie down for me, no hangar.
Ah, bummer
@@jeromes5141 where are you based? Just curious if you are near Pennsylvania....
I love the community that’s created through flying!
Hi Nnce video and thanks for the analysis. I have two cycles of flying, one in my initial training, and then one later when I moved to a new state and airport. Both cycles stopped when I could not find my time to fly because the rental fleets came to be so booked up that I just lost interest. If I had a 1963 Mooney right now I would be set. Keep flying!
I totally understand the frustration of trying to rent. Beyond that, I lose faith that the plane will be in good condition with so many people flying it.
I'm probably one of the few viewers that knows of Sparta airport. I had made dozens and dozens of flights from DTW to Sparta. My uncle owned a dairy farm just north of Crockery lake. This brought back a lot of great memories - TY
That’s so awesome Mike! Thanks for watching...I feel quite lucky to have such a nice airport so close to me.
I was a little surprised to see it too.. I live within 5 miles and if I had a plane I'd almost definitely hanger it there.
So cool man. Come join the fun!
I have a friend who flys out of there. You know G2? Greetings from Ontario.
I know G2, Gordy is a great guy! Thanks for being here!
Great video and good analysis. I think this allows people to venture into aviation with an understanding of the costs. I own a 67 M20C (N9676M). I would have also included some number associated with the amount of money the plane depreciates for every hour flown or as some people call it the reserve for replacing the engine and/or prop. That number is significant and can usually be determined by taking the cost of an engine and prop and dividing it by TBO for each item and adding it to your hourly cost. If you fly the plane for 500 hours it will sell for less than you purchased it and if you have to overhaul the engine and/or prop that could cost you half or more the cost of the plane.
Thanks Jeff, that is a good point. I do believe there are some inherent thresholds in there, by that I mean a plane with 300 since overhaul could sell for the same amount as one with 500 since, or maybe even 750 hours since. Anyway, you’re correct, for a responsible owner, engine reserves should be a consideration!
Jeff, I’m not sure depreciation is as predictable as that when you’re dealing with airplanes more than 20 years old. In fact, after a certain period of time, they will begin to gain value over time. For example, I bought my 1976 Cessna 172 XP in 2016 for $45,000. I flew it 200 hours per year for 2.5 years, and sold it for $48,000.
@@JamesWilliams-en3os I don’t disagree with that. I guess I was thinking new planes. I just sold a 67 Mooney M20C for $18k more than I paid for it 7 months ago so I totally understand what you’re saying about the older planes.
Very nice return!
Wow, that’s a great investment. How many hours did you put on it over those years?
I owned an M20E, which was a 200hp FI plane with a cowl induction. It loved to fly, hated to land. Easiest airplane to fly that I ever owned. I had several planes and this was my favorite. Fast with low fuel burn per hr. Strongest wing in the business. Good luck with yours, you have the best in my opinion. I really liked the Pogo stick landing gear, you knew when the gear was up or down, no faults.
Thanks David, I also love the Johnson bar gear...it's so intuitive. I sure with I had the extra 20 hp that you did.
THANKS for the valuable information
I really appreciate the effort you went to in making this video.
Thank you sir!
Not sure why this was suggested to me since I know nothing of aviation, but I found it thoroughly fascinating! What state are you in?
I’m glad it resonated with you! I live in the great state of Michigan!
I stumbled across your channel. Ironically I learned to fly in a 1964 Mark 21 Mooney. It had a variable speed prop with the same type retractable gear you described. One of the few planes that actually cruised at the speed of the horse power. Ours cruised at 180mph and was as yours is 180hp. Bringing back a lot of memories.
So glad to hear, I hope you enjoyed it as much as I am!
Ironically I am from Kalamazoo. Surprised to hear you fly out of Sparta closs to Grand Rapids.
Cool man, I spent 1.5 years in Kzoo before quitting school. Fun town!!!
Dude you're in Michigan!! Nice man! I'm in Ann Arbor and I'd love to own my private airplane! Thanks for the info brother and I'm definitely subbing
Thanks so much! I hope the east side of the state is treating you well!
Many years ago I had a job as an accountant for a group of companies that had a umber of fixed wing aircraft used in the business. So my comment applies to business aircraft. Over a couple of years accounting for the costs of operating the flight department that included two Cessna Citations, and several Beach Barons and a couple of other smaller craft I developed a rule of thumb. The department had pilots for all the aircraft and they all had salaries and training, there were hangars, and mechanics, inspections maintenance, insurance, fuel and all the other stuff. The rule is simple, the annual cost to fly a business aircraft is equal to the cost of the aircraft. Now back to the video.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing! I couldn’t even imagine the cost of a operating a jet (net yet anyway)!
I’m a fellow M20C owner. I’ve had annuals cost 10k, but most are under 2k. Periodically big, expensive stuff needs to be done. That said, I’ve always thought the cost was worth it. Great video.
Thank you Mike, I have to agree...the price to play is worth it!
@@MyTimeToFly keep up with maintenance and the plane will give you many years of flying pleasure.
Thanks Mike, I sure plan to
I got hooked into your video!!! Very informative! 💯🤟🏼
Very cool! Thanks for being here!
What a great video! Thank you for making it. 😊
My pleasure, thanks for watching.
Grew up in the 60’s with my dad owning two different Mooneys. I believe the first was a 63’ and the second one a 67’. So many great memories were made and shared. Dad at the stick, mom navigating and me watch the world go by under my feet @ 8000’.
So awesome, I sure hope my daughters share the same sentiment later in life.
Truly blessed!
I was an aircraft mechanic for a really long time. The high maintenance costs are usually due to ridiculous parts prices and a lot of man hours required by the faa for things like annuals and ad research
I couldn’t agree more. Supply and demand really does keep the part prices high.
Its not even just supply and demand its obvious greed from the companies thst make parts. They wont settle with anything less than a 2000% mark up out of pure disgusting greed. You morons dont even know how ripped off youre getting 😂😂
What a great video! Thanks for posting!
Thanks a bunch Noah, it's my absolute pleasure!
Thanks very much for this, informative. I want a DA62 but will have to settle for the simulator at the moment😃
Nice! Gotta start somewhere!
Wow, less than $3k for the annual. I've heard to expect around $8k. I would love a Mooney but don't think I would fit. I'm 6'7". 172's are ok, but a 182 tends to fit me good. Would love the speed of the Mooney though. Thanks for the great information. Take my sub :)
Thank you kindly, you might be surprised just how comfy a Mooney would be for you...try it out some day. They have lots of leg room, you just might not be able to have a passenger behind you!
A 172 is 40% more expensive since it takes that much longer to get anywhere vs the Mooney, I was probably upwards of $800 an hour on 100 hours flying with the repairs and upgrades last year. I stopped recording the numbers, emotional block.
I’m glad I can’t count that high! Good point about the 172, especially if you’re using it for travel.
Holy crap. I grew up in Rockford MI. And would go fly with my friend and his father out of Wells and Miller. This is cool seeing someone into aviation making videos where I grew up. I live in New Orleans now. +subscribed!
Thanks a bunch! Who do you know that lived on Wells? Fish? May?
@@MyTimeToFly This was a few years ago I'm 38. Do you know anyone with the last name Custer.
That doesn’t ring a bell.
Awesome video! Almost my whole family lives in Grant so I’m always going through Sparta to to to Alpine. It would be awesome to meet up this summer when I go visit them. I fly with a friend who had a Mooney until recently when the co-owner crashed it. He also has a little Cessna 150.
Sounds like fun, sounds like you know where to find me!
Yes sir, thank you!
Of course, I move to the Sparta area, and you sell the Mooney!!
I owned a 1964 M20D, a 1975 M20E and a 1968 M20C fully modified I have also owned C152s, 3, 172s, and C182 G1000, company pilot new 2007 C206T full G1000. I know what cost to own airplanes. The Mooney's are the best on fuel speed but be very,very, careful and don't skimp on a full inspection by a qualified IA who know your aircraft, and for goodness sake make sure all ADS are completed. That can get very expensive. The C206 cost $265 per hour to operate. My M20E was my favorite bird but when my engine blew it cost me $17,000 for a full overhaul. My overall favorite is the C206T but hourly cost was expensive. Also make sure you can get parts, many part are not available for Mooney.
Thanks for the great info, and for watching!
I am drawn in by the allure of flying but when I start thinking about how easy it is for a car to break down, and the fact that planes *can not* afford to break down, it makes me think I would probably be so nervous after any maintenance or change - I don't know how people can deal with that. Then again I know nothing about it, so perhaps there are backups build into it and you get a parachute if all fails. I think it would be thrilling to have such freedom.
I'd highly recommend giving it a shot, at least go have that first lesson. Sure, there are things that can go wrong. It's very important in aviation to know your systems well, and understand early indicators of problems. Making good decisions can reduce risks significantly.
Thanks for making the video. It was great and informative
My pleasure, thanks for watching!!!
Looks like fun, thanks for the info. I went to Calvin for a few years back in the day.
My pleasure! I work with a ton of Calvin students / grads. Seems like a great school!
I used to own an E, and it has a remarkable glide ratio - Right at the lower end of pure gliders... I often thought a skilled glider pilot could do a lot at altitude to gain an objective in the event of engine failure. I even wondered if one could do cross-country flights using power only to gain altitude when needed... Ever look at this issue?
I never have, and I’m not a skilled glider pilot…but it seems like it would be a ton of fun to try!
When the time comes in to overhaul which I'm presuming is a pretty hefty 5 figures isnt that going to increase the cost of ownership as well as cost per hour? Not to mention having to having those funds set aside?
It would, no doubt about it. Our long term plans are slightly different, and don’t include owning it until an overhaul is needed. If one pops up on us, we will bite the bullet then.
@@MyTimeToFly I would have liked to see you mention engine reserves in the video. Even if you don't set one aside it is still absolutely a variable expense. I see and hear stories all the time where an owner is forced to sell the airplane or let it rot on the ramp because they couldn't afford to overhaul the engine.
I do understand and agree with you. An extra $20/hr could definitely be accrued toward engine reserves.
I’m from Michigan as well and I’ve been researching KZhead because I’m interested in getting my license. Very informative video!
Thanks Bryan, if there is any other info I can provide...don’t hesitate to ask!!!
Great info on ownership and thank you!!
Thanks Doug
Hmmm. I had a 1965 M20E, owned it outright. I have a Commercial and Instrument ratings, with over 2000 hours logged. Purchase Price: Nearly 80k (upgraded panel, new paint, speed mods, new autopilot) Hull Value: $65k. Numbers are approximate from 15 years ago Insurance: Also about $2000 Hangar Rent: $3000 Maintenance: avg. $5000 (as I recall) Interest on Note: $2000 So, $1000/month before flying it at all. My wet logbook hourly cost came closer to $120, including fuel, oil, an engine reserve and maintenance reserve (reserves at $30/hour), but I flew an average of 200 hours a year.
That does seem reasonable, our maintenance was a bit less this year, and my hangar is $1000 less. I also didn’t include any interest as folks purchase so many different ways and I couldn’t include them all. Thanks for sharing!!!
HI, the ONLY thing that keeps an airplane in the air flying is MONEY!!!!!! As a former aircraft owner, I know from when I talk!!!!!!👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
I don’t disagree with you!
If you owe your own plane, how much did it cost per hour of flight? Im looking at a 2 seater single engine around 1300lbs. I plan on flying everyday to work. Its a short 25 min.
Obviously gas prices have a big impact here, if you figure $100 an hour you’re probably safe (for now)
@@MyTimeToFly Thank you for the speedy reply!
My pleasure man, good luck in your search!!!
The Mooney has always been my favorite aircraft. Not because I own or fly one...but simply because when I was a little kid in the 1970's my Mom bought me Barry Schiff's Golden Guide title "Flying." Images of the M20 feature heavily in that little book.
Very cool. That’s a pricy book these days ($80-$800)
Wow! A Michigander! I was born and raised in Michigan but left in 1988. I’ve got a brother that lives in White Cloud. I’ve never used my pilot’s license in Michigan but have used it in many states. And I absolutely love the M20. Nice bird!
Thank you kindly! I feel quite blessed to live in Michigan...we’ve pretty much got it all.
One of the biggest drawbacks of renting is the minimal hours/day to rent plane if you keep it for an entire day. This makes it terrible cost prohibitive to travel in a rental if, at your destination, the plane sits unflown at all.
Agreed, it’s difficult to travel any distance in a rented airplane.
Not fair comparison to renting because this math does not include the financing payments or up front cash payout on the plane. In other words, if renting is anywhere comparable to owning on an hourly basis WITHOUT FACTORING IN $100K PURCHASE PRICE, then most people could find better things to do with the $100k.
I see your point, but I did only give about $35k for the plane, and I intended to get all of that and more out of it when I sell. Airplanes tend to appreciate as much as houses these days!
Super interesting and enjoyable video. Thank you.
Thanks Robert! I appreciate you watching!
I'm going to school to be an airplane mechanic :) I love airplanes. The backwards rudder on Mooney's always looked so interesting to me
That’s great to hear, we need more mechanics! Shameless plug, check out Tekton tools. I run the manufacturing department at Tekton. You won’t be disappointed with our tools! Tekton.com
@@MyTimeToFly I still have a year and a half left before I can even apply for my A&P xD I'm not even looking at getting high end tools yet, but I'll give it a look for sure :)
All good man, they are not high end priced! You’ll be impressed. I only went to work at the company because I loved the tools and the prices! You’ll also get 15% off being a student. Alright, enough sales guy stuff! Good luck during the rest of your program!!!
I once had a dentist as a client. Earned $350 k annually. $0 in savings / investments. Spent $7,500 / month on vehicles, including about $1,800 / month for his plane. He could not afford the plane but didn’t know it.
That’s pretty sad. I definitely don’t make that kind of money, but prioritize my retirement savings over virtually everything I do!
Man I want to get a plane in a few years but it’s so expensive and I am going to be making 59K a year when I move out, plus house payments probably being sky high where I plan on living! Despite that, this is a dream I wanna make happen, so I can travel across the country on my weekends.
There is always a way! Start by renting or find a club to be a part of. If it is something you love, you will always find a way!!!
It's a choice between paying for a dream and choosing a particular area to live. Always comes down to how bad do we really want it because there's always a way when we focus on what we want
Truth! I do live in an inexpensive area (which I love). I couldn’t imagine paying the prices some geography demands!
Sparta Mi.?... home of the rodeo.... spent a week there every year for the Kline rodeo.. nice town. Great video. Keep em coming.
Yes sir, Sparta, MI. The rodeo has been gone for quite a while now, but it’s a nice little town. Thanks for the kind words!!!
Great breakdown! Thanks.
My absolute pleasure, thanks for being here!
How many hours do you have on your logbook? Curious to know so I can compare insurance cost to myself.
I'm a little behind on filling out the logbook, but somewhere around 175 hours now.
The biggest question I have is do you fly to destinations or just around town. I would like to fly to see family and friends on weekend trips. Is it still close on the cost of ownership vs rental?
I really like destination flying, but it’s not always as easy as it sounds. If you are destination flying, I believe owning makes way more sense!
@@MyTimeToFly yeah this is why I am looking into buying, our club has 12 members for two planes and I hate to reserve the plane for the weekend or overnight and not allow another to fly it while it sits at another airport
All situations are different, and dynamic at that. Some clubs (most I think) have members that fly rarely...if ever. I’d just recommend digging into the actual specifics of the club you’re looking at. It’s not out of the question to ask to see the airplane schedule. If it falls within the rules...don’t feel bad about weekends!
Thanks for this information.
My pleasure sir!
Thanks for the video !
My absolute pleasure!!! Thanks for being here!
I took lessons there many years ago. Did you know that the village of Sparta basically screwed the previous owners out of it ? I even had to testify at when they were suing each other. I flew 821RM is it still around ?
I definitely don’t know the history of Sparta ownership. But nothing would surprise me anymore. 821RM seems to have made its way out to California.
I'm moving to the Bay Area soon and looking to buy an airplane, maybe a SR-20.. the costs will probably be ridiculous based on geography alone. Thanks for the breakdown!
I can’t even imagine!!! But if you can afford it...do it!
Green Bay?
San Francisco Bay Area
Green Bay would be way more affordable!!!
@@MyTimeToFly Haha if only the weather was as nice and the companies out there would pay Bay Area salaries!
Great info. Thanks for sharing! 9/2021.
My pleasure!!!
I have flown one and received my pilot's license as part of my training. But I cannot say I knew the answer to this question. So thank you for the video.
My pleasure, thanks so much for watching!
Gordon Baxter of Flying magazine. How much does it cost to fly? All of it!
So true!
that graphic in the upper right, How did you get that?
Are you referring to the gauges showing speed and direction? Those are available on GoPro Hero 5's and newer. You have to have the GPS setting turned on, the add the gauges after you download the video on your computer.
Great Video thank you for sharing!!
My pleasure, thanks for watching.
Cool airplane & story - Hi from Michigan 😎 • Cheers from the Detroit & Mackinac Railway 🚂
Thanks a bunch Gary (I hope I’m right there). Enjoy the rails!!!
The annual cost of ownership should include depreciation expense, which is the amortization of the cost of the airplane over its expected service life. There are many ways to finance the purchase of an airplane, but the financing cost should be capitalized and amortized along with the depreciation. Depending on the details of the financing, it can double the purchase price of the airplane.
Paul, how do you accurately calculate “service life” when so many components have different failure periods...and they’re all crazy expensive?
@@MyTimeToFly Estimating the service life an asset can be challenging. But for proper accounting you need to estimate the remaining service life of the airplane, not each component. The IRS has some guidelines regarding how to estimate the service life of an asset.
Thanks Paul. Interesting that we don’t do the same for automobiles. I guess I need to do some learning!
@@MyTimeToFly People should do the same for autos. I am a retired CPA. Also, I am a commercial pilot with instrument and multi-engine ratings, although I have not been active. In addition, I worked as a flight instructor with CFI and CFI-I certificates. The fully allocated cost of driving my car is 29 cents per mile. This consists of variable expenses, i.e., gasoline, maintenance, and tolls. And fixed expenses, i.e., insurance and depreciation. I plan to keep the car for 130,000 miles. This is the average number of miles that I have put on my previous vehicles. It is the estimated service life of the asset. The depreciation expense consists of the purchase price of the car, together with tax, transfer, and license fees, less any salvage value, amortized over the estimated life of the vehicle (130,000) miles. I paid cash for the car. Had I financed it, the present value of the loan - interest and principal - should be included in the purchase cost of the car and amortized over the life of the asset. Actually, maintenance and insurance are mixed costs. Even if the vehicle just sits, it requires some maintenance to keep it from rusting away. But most of the maintenance requirement is a function of the miles driven. The same applies to insurance and deprecation. The more the vehicle is driven, the higher the insurance premiums and depreciation. I live in central Texas. The fully allocated cost of driving to Dallas and back is $98.60. The cost of an economy round trip ticket on Greyhound for travel in two weeks would be $60. The cost in coach class on Amtrak’s Texas Eagle would be $60. Knowing how much it costs to drive vs. any alternatives helps one make a better choice. Or for the purpose of this subject, the cost to fly. Most people, if they even try to calculate the cost of driving vs. an alternative, usually just focus on the variable costs, which produces a significantly different outcome than the fully allocated cost. The concepts for determining the cost of driving a personal vehicle apply to owning and operating an airplane or any vehicle.
This is some solid stuff, although I’m sure if I calculate the cost to fly as a means to decide to fly vs. drive vs. use public transport...I would likely never fly. I guess the ratio of “number of Smiles / Miles” will continue to be my determining factor. I appreciate you bringing your vast knowledge to the audience here!
The cost of an overhaul can easily cost more than the plane , maybe it needs a spar inspection , again more than the plane cost . cheap in aviation does not exist . I needed a landing light a mechanic in a hangar had one for 40 bucks , he said it was 60 . I went to a napa store and got an aircraft spot , same part number for 10 . A lot of thieves in aviation as well .
Very true on all aspects, there is no cheap In aviation. We as pilots / airplane owners must look out for each other!
love it keep up the good work
Thanks Jeff...will do!
good video, great points
Thanks a bunch!
The two best days of aircraft ownership: The day you buy it and the day you sell it. Or, as I like to call the aircraft ownership experience: BOATT: Bust-out another $10K.
It can seem that way, although we haven’t had that experience quite yet!
Wow. Costs as much as running a decent race car, with similar amount of hours.
Sure does! My last hobby was short track oval racing...unfortunately it’s hard to find sponsors for flying around the sky!
As an ex-owner (PA22), I would add that a big reason to own is so you can actually go places. $140 wet rental is Hobbs (engine running) on rental, try taking it somewhere overnight, or flying one hour, hanging around for 5 (playing golf, walking, visiting etc.) and returning 1 hour - your bill won't be 2 hours! I flew to a place for 3 hours, stayed for a week and flew back - can't do that rental! I worked it out several ways and if you can't fly 50 hours, fly local circuits, and need to economize - rent. If you want to use your plane for whatever you want, whenever and have the bucks to apply to your passion, own :-) My costs were similar for a fixed-gear by the way - other than maintenance, which is cheaper on a non-complex.
What a great summary, thank you!!! You definitely hit the nail on the head!
I was looking around for videos to see the cost of ownership and hangars that are affordable in my area before I start classes. Just so happens that I too am in Grand Rapids, MI and have been looking at Sparta as the airport I'd like to hangar at once I purchase something... after I purchase my plane. If you have recommendations as for where I should start my classes at, I'd be very appreciative! Thank you for the awesome content and insights!
Thank you kindly Roger! Sparta is a great airport, that has many instructors. I’d recommend getting ahold of Sparta Aviation and chatting with Mark Schmitt about available instructors. 616-308-3967
To own a plane one important factor is become a licensed A&P mechanic!
It sure seems like it would be a big advantage!
It's the only way I would do it. I don't like anyone working on any of my vehicles so the aircraft would be the same way.
I agree, it can be difficult to trust people working on your stuff!!!
He sounds like a good person to have in your corner!
Well there’s that! Maybe someday his knowledge will be powerful for you!
I rebuilt the first. Piper J 3 to roll off the line in PA. I crawled into the tail section & passed the needle thru the Irish linen... back up to my dad George Manser. That was 1954 I was 8 y.o. The Westfield Airport off Lake Avenue Colonia NJ. Arthur Godfrey flew in the area. HIS pilot was a friend of ours. Actually I helped my dad & 2 brothers do the rebuild. Mostly I was co-pilot in the trips to pick up supplies.😁💥N46490 "Old 90" call sign😁🦋
So awesome! Thanks for sharing!!!
Love the tail cam!!!
Thank you kindly. Unfortunately it tends to move, or get a little oil on it over time!
I like flying the Piper Warrior II low wing for my student hours. It feels less wind-affected than a Cessna high wing. More stable.
I tend to agree, my Mooney handles the crosswind much better as well.
I could totally afford this plane it’s the simple fact of death that is keeping me from even learning
Right it’s like 8 times as dangerous as driving a car.
You can mitigate a lot of the risk, but I do agree it can be a bit nerve wracking.
Could you tell me where your stat comes from? I’m not doubting it, just genuinely interested!
@@MyTimeToFly I'm doubting it, unless he can provide verifiable sources and studies.
I’m open to hearing it though, I’m genuinely interested!
Sumary: be rich
Nice!
Awesome vid, thanks!!
Thanks David, I appreciate you watching!