Should you install a full AFDD or RCBO CONSUMER UNIT?
A consumer unit change is an ideal opportunity to update an electrical installation. Gary Hayers, checks out an install with MJ electrical where they explore full RCBO and AFDD options.
===== TIME STAMPS ==============
00:00 Upgrading a fusebox or consumer unit
00:48 Electrical installation inspection
02:34 Visual inspection identifies other issues
03:56 Fitting a surge protection device
05:56 Electrical installation certificate - LABC
06:44 RCBO installation option
07:36 AFDD installation option (Arc Fault Detection)
08:28 Benefits of AFDD's
09:18 The new consumer unit
09:59 Are AFDD's the future.
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📹 Presented by
Gary Hayers - Editor eFIXX
Matt - MJ Electrical
===================================
Easiest board change in the history of electrical installations. Customer willing to pay an arm and a leg for anything, nice height, loads of working space and basically new wiring. Next time show us how it’s done on a Wylex rewirable fuse CU under a staircase. 🤣 Wish I was that lucky!
Hot Tub, PV, a new Dis board with 16 AFDDs,,, Not on my wages,, The owner must be a plumber
😂
Great video. These boards are the future. All bases covered. Installed by competent people and combined with proper smoke and fire alarms fitted, nearly all deaths from electrical fires would be eliminated. Just need the prices to become more reasonable .
What he might have added is that the fully fitted board alone will cost you about £2,600.
Love the board and well explained guys. Most of my customers would struggle to find the extra to pay for that board. The vast majority want to pay the least they can. I would upgrade my 17th ed board to AFDD/ RCBO as I can see the benefits.
16 AFDDs.... e.g. Siemens quotes 1.35W power draw, so over 20 watts of heat being generated inside the CU. That has to be bad for long-term reliability. Not to mention 25 quid a year electricity cost. As regards overall benefit of mandating AFDDs, you need to look not only at any claimed reduction in fires, but also how many CUs don't get replaced because of the high cost, leaving less safe setups in place for longer - it could end up having a net negative overall benefit on safety. And the other utterly stupid thing is manufacturers haven't standardised the LED fault indications.
If I remember rightly wasn't the cost of that many AFDD's in the region of £1500 just for the consumer unit without the labour (ref: David Savery). On that price who the hell is going to do a full board. Shower/ Oven and large loading items makes sense but an entire board for a standard 3 bed domestic doesn't. The money would be better spent on having the attending engineer inspect all the connections of sockets and light fittings. The increased energy draw is a pain and honestly the people that wait the longest to upgrade are the people that can least afford it. Defies logic in the long run, recommended sure, practical/ should a full AFDD be fitted no way.
Their RCBOs have similar, or even worse, power loss rating, also from my understanding the power lose rating is for full power draw, so it isn't so bad all the time.
@@effervescence5664 Yep, and at around 150 quid a throw for a Wylex AFDD, customers will laugh you out of the door. That CU must have cost over £2k to supply and fit! looooooooooool
@@niceguy235uk1 £3500.00 without fitting afdd/rcbo £185.00 each plus a board £145.00 and it's a 18 breaker set up.
I am not a supporter of the over use of AFDD, but arguing power effeciency against a life safety device... Seriously! I hope you personally unplug all your devices on your home before going to bed 🤔
I think the point a lot of the commentators are missing is we had a 14 usable way split load board which was perfectly acceptable to keep. In order to install new circuits the options were 1) install new board nearby or 2) upgrade current board to comply with current regulations. Having one board is more aesthetically pleasing. We now have an 18 usable way spd board. We could put 2 RCD's in but that would reduce us to 14 ways once again. As the customer is looking to add circuits, the best way is to use RCBO's. The AFDD's I'm assuming are being supplied by a sponsor (efix/wylex/other) in order to allow the production of the video.
I had the consumer unit changed in my current property as well as my previous one. Both times carried out by niceic-registered electricians, neither times did I get any paperwork, nor identification on the cu who carried out the work, nor any reporting of the work to building control. Oh and both wanted payment in cash. This is why I do all my own electrical work now. Not anything as heavy as rewiring or changing a cu but adding fused spurs, sockets, doing the wiring for a new kitchen (installed by myself), sure.
Not a clue what gaz just said, hypnotised by the handle bars.
🤣 thanks #movember 👍
Its a Buggers handle 😂
Just waiting for the 70s x movie music to start in the background
I have a full RCBO CU setup, the other day I had a class 2 hairdryer which was arcing on fire obviously because it was only a live and neutral the breaker didn’t trip as there was no reference to earth or didn’t exceed the overload 32A rating of the breaker. I think these are an excellent idea having seen the issue in real life 😳
Good video, good information for a customers point of view, will be interesting to see if AFDD's will price out the more compliant domestic electricians after the second amendment. AFDD's are on their way.
Good comment - thanks 👍
Honest electricians can't install AFDD as Bs7671 is not ridged in its advice for application. They just won't win the job. The customer is caught between the scaremongering of manufacturers videos, OTT installations that cost an arm and 2 legs and the electrician that says you don't need anything. I believe the brown book will resolve when released.
RCBOS or AFDDs depends on weather they got Bentley or a clap out old Ford parked in the driveway
Agreed.
😂😂😂😂😂
Seen the price of old fords these days?
@@rodgerq Are you planning to plug the old ford and charge it? 😂
Great video Gaz, thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks for commenting and watching 👍
Lots of ways in that board, wondering what the maximum demand calculation will come in at🧐
I am sure efix expected an healthly debate for this one. Arc Fault detection is good but only when applied correctly. There are 3 points here. All circuits for low power such as lighting, detection, fridges a complete waste of money. General ring circuits there is a lot of evidence that suggests there is not usually enough power being drawn to activate the AFDD and finally high powered circuits yes a good thing as the will work as intended. As they are a recommendation I would always make the recommendation to the client. 1. General 32A circuits, due to the uncontrolled nature of the circuits. Anything could be plugged in over the life of the install, including faulty equipment. 2. Any circuits containing white goods such as washing machine, dryer etc. 3. High powered circuits containing cookers, water or electric heating.
Sensible thinking - but will sense influence the next BS7671 amendment ?
@@efixx agreed. This is my interpretation of the draft amendment and what can reasonably be expected to be published. Lighting circuit and other small loads I do not believe will be a requirement.
1:41 - you covered this in another video. Only the additional protection is split, so it does offer the selectively for overload with the MCBs. That was my take home... no? Are we really giving a C3 for a split load (if installed after 2018)?
You say board change as split board not compliant with BS7671 but that's not true?
Not even worth contemplating until the price comes down. The very nice people at the IEE tell us we have to make the customer aware of the availability of AFDD's. I've done this several times but never been asked to install them or even quote for them. Nice job but as others have pointed out, not a typical CU upgrade - most are a lot older than this one and consequently prone to a sorts of issues. That's why I always give an estimate not a fixed price quote for this type of work
Didn't know this mcb-rccd-arc fault module existed and i work in the panel building industry :O Great video!
Thanks for commenting 👍
with my eyesight I thought you had a couple of test leads hanging from your top lip... nice video also. cheers
Doesn't comply with CURRENT regs. Also split load board complies with the current regs. You just did a video on this.
Only 1 side has RCD protection, this board is a 16th edition board which doesnt have RCD protection on lighting/heating loads.
@@chrisjinks5197 Sure, I'll take back the split load comment - that board doesn't comply with current regs (dual rcds would). Still doesn't need to though.
@@ThePa1ch it needs RCD protection for all circuits with cabling buried at less than 50mm.
@@TheFool2cool That's the current regs yes. But is a C3 in an old installation.
@@ThePa1ch My wild guess is: It does not need to be upgraded unless changes of installation are made.
Hello There, recently discovered your channel. props on your good work here. my question. isnt that a 3 phase installation with L1, L2, L3? looking at the "main switch" it seems to be just one phase conductor and neutral? im an electician in germany, thats why i got to ask. greetings!
I wish you had pointed out AFDDs don't proved arc fault detection on the main switch , the amount of burt out of melted main switch I've seen over the years because of arcing because the main switch terminals haven't be tightened properly
Spot on. Complete waste of time. Include em in the smart meters... No chance
Afdd. Yanks have em as lower line voltage higher power. Only time we may have seen arcs were with the old room stats. Could tell as your TV or radio give a load of white noise out!
Good Ze reading when he was actually testing ZDB? Nice clean install though. GJ
Shame about the blokes 🧦 👀👀🙈🤣😂
Legit and benificial innovation/design/improvement/etc. for circuit protection.
The £1000 plus fuseboard hehe
And the rest. 150 per circuit, probably more like £2000
Just checked the cost of a 20 way spd board £145.00 the cost of the afdd/rcd breaker £185.00 per total £3475.00 just for the board ouch. Cant see Mr&Mrs minimum wage going for that.
@@chrisardern4594 😂😂 I’ll take 2
Yes for half the board!
@@chrisardern4594 never mind mr and Mrs minimum wage.. I doubt anyone would really
Not sure about fitting extra MCBS instead of tidy blanks, it kinda looks untidy with them switch off. Plus there could be more risk of a DIY chucking any old cable in the spare breakers. EBay tends to have all makes available.
The main difference between rccb's and affd's is the price.
what a lovely opportunity (missed) to divide the rings into radials.
W rozdzielnicy B32 i B40 ciekawy jestem jakie zabezpieczenie przedlicznikowe maja x) i na jaki przekrój przewodu te zabezpieczenia dobrali bo poza zasilaniem (wyglada po izolacji jak 16mm2)to wiecej jak 4mm2 nihdzie nie widze
Love the new moustache
when you are doing the certificate on laptop what software are you using for the templates?
When the spark was taking the “ze” reading, he had the earth probe on the earth bar, not with the main earth disconnected ? Not a true reading of “external earth faults loop impedance” - I’m not being critical, just want to know if I missed something ?
Why have AFDD'S been fitted to protect the smoke detector and lighting circuits which are unlikely to draw more than the 1.5 A required to form an arc that the Siemens AFDD would detect.
They have been fitted for about £200 a pop 8-)=
BANGER mustache!
#movember
Blimey the cost of all those SPDs, AFFDs, RCBOs, split loads, etc. is prohibitive. I think I’ll hang on to my old fuse box!
The surge protection. At what voltage does the surge protection kick in?? I saw a test on one and it didn’t kick in until 500 volts. Surely by then the tv is fried any how??
AFDD for a thatched cottage or barn renovation. Well, recommend anyway.
👍
Just out of interest, do you have any evidence that AFDDs will prevent/reduce fires in such installations?
@@johnhoward2104 does an AFDD have any other purpose?
@@edc1569 implied in your question is that they are capable of doing what they are described as being able to do - that is, we're told they prevent fires caused by series/parallel arc faults, therefore, that's what they must do! However, there could be a mismatch between what they are described/claimed to be able to do and what they actually do. So do you have any evidence at all that they actually do what they are claimed to be able to do? Below, is a copy of my previous post: It is perhaps very unwise to push the notion that AFDDs are beneficial given the lack of evidence of their efficacy both regarding their sensitivity to faults and fire prevention ability. They are perhaps being pushed on us in upcoming regulations due to the lobbying power of those with financial interests in their installation (such as manufacturers and wholesalers). There is, however, apparently little evidence for their effectiveness (see, for example: communities.theiet.org/discussions/viewtopic/1037/27144 where an electrical engineer, in part, says: "The science behind these devices is simply not there, and it is easily shown that these devices are being sold to detect a problem which does not exist". Damming words indeed), and DIY testing shows just how useless they can be (see, for example: kzhead.info/sun/h7qqmZp7nJaDnoU/bejne.html and kzhead.info/sun/nayrfrF-fIWaaZE/bejne.html). Therefore, we certainly should not be saying they are effective at preventing fires until we have the evidence to confirm they are. In short, are we being sold a bum steer, probably for nothing more than financial gain by those with vested financial interest? Also, if there is a fire because an AFDD didn't stop it by extinguishing the arc, who is responsible - us, for telling the customer AFDDs prevent fires, or the manufacturer for making claims about their device that didn't work? If you have any proof AFDDs provide their claimed fire prevention ability, please forward it to the aforementioned engineer, who may be very interested to know about it, and if you post it to the forum, we can all know about it.
@@johnhoward2104 I am equally dubious of the value of surge protection devices fitted in DBs. Is there any evidence that they work? The proper place for surge protection is in the potentially vulnerable equipment as close as possible to the components likely to suffer from surges. In other words its a matter of mains-powered electronic equipment being competently designed rather than a sticking-plaster approach which might not even be effective.
The CU was installed 15 years ago then it does still comply with BS7671 metal CUs are required for new builds five years old or less or from whe the regulations was introduced , page 18 of BS 7671 health and safety executive’s note states that just because an installation was installed to an earlier edition of BS7671 DOSE NOT mean that it will fail an inspection or that it should be replaced or updated . So for him to tell the client that it doesn’t comply with the regulations is wrong. Plastic Split load CUs will still comply As long as it is in good condition with no signs of damage or thermal damage or exposed conductive parts and is safe for continued service, as electricians we are required to test the installation to BS7671 and if necessary we inform the client of benefits of a new CU it is then the clients choice if they want a new CU or not . I may not have quoted it word for word so feel free to look it up your self,
Gary, have you entered the Merve Hugh's look alike contest or something?
Y...M...C...A!!!!, great video by the way!
Anyone else noticed Ze test being done with parallel paths connected? ;)
The property has plastic water and gas pipes into the installation 👍
@@efixx I used to always take a Ze from the main earth conductor not tied into the earth block whether it was TT PME or TNS. You never know if the gas pipes internally are buried anywhere. That's the way I did it but not saying he is wrong in his method.
@@efixx so no need to install bonds? Asking for a friend
@@kiers1970 - if water and gas are plastic, no you don’t.
I'll really appreciate if someone could explain if its mandatory or otherwise to fit a B16 OverCurrent Protection for Intruder Alarm as seen in 9:37 ?? Thanks in advance.
I genuinely don't understand the majority of comments, presumably mostly from electricians, prioritising cost over safety! Even if there is a chance AFDDs are effective at saving lives, isn't 3k over the lifetime of the installation worth it? If you could, would you buy a car without air bags purely to save money? Sure, as new technology they are pricey but it might help customers if those in the trade emphasised the safety aspect over just trying to undercut each other a little more often.
Top advice 👍
Not the electricians, most customers will not pay that so they just wouldn't get the job. I'll wait for the cost to come down.
I understand where your coming from but most customers hate paying £300-£600 for fully rcbo boards and I can’t see new customers paying £3000 nowadays so there most likely to just leave it alone then the cost has an adverse effect on installations as a whole as customer will just leave old fuse wire board still working . It’s a catch 22 problem , I wonder if plumbers will start installing sprinkler systems in all homes now as they can save lives too ?
Have you employed a full time fire fighter to live at home with you? You haven't? But it could save your life one day, don't you care about the safety of your family you cheapskate?
JESUS H CHRIST, that mustache is magnificent. I'm only at 0:11, but I just HAD to comment.
Why not install a subpanel in this addition? Normal practice here in the colonies (Canada).
Are you takin the Michael?
Those SPD's don't cost £50, there around £8 for 2 SPD's, with the carrier, delivered to your door, with free postage. All they do is get a bog standard SPD and stick their own branding on and then bingo! They're over 10 the price of what you can get on eBay delivered to your door. So if you take a £50 and £5 apart, you'll see that it's got exactly the same bits inside. Which is just a MOV that's been potted in resin, incase it explodes due to high fault current. But everything that's got electronics in, has already got MOV's and different types of surge protections built into them already.
It’s crazy to be fitting AFDDs currently due to the price, just like RCBOs were when 17th got released. It’s completely viable to fit RCBOs and a SPD now as price is alright and that is a great set up for protection for people and equipment. I’m sure when it’s written in the 19th edition to be made to install, they will drop in price. Until then I recommend a full RCBO board from a quality brand like Crabtree, Wylex or Hager for futureproofing reasons. This will make it easier to upgrade when the time comes
crabtree?
Although Crabtree have gone downhill over the years, their consumer unit are great and its very unlikely they will cease making them or change design. If anything, Wylex have been the pain out of the brands mentioned with design changes that cause retrofit problems
I think your right, but I also think you should make your customer aware of the recommendation of bs7671. Consider using cost-effective instead of cost.
Of course, goes without saying. It’s enough currently to convince them spending £300 on full RCBO board over a £50 BG split load, that still currently complies, how you interpret the regs. Throw in a £1500 AFDD board, they don’t want to know. Tbh, I wouldn’t even spend that on my own property at that price knowing they will drop significantly in the next 5 odd years and I don’t have the labour cost added.
@@dannyboisparky you forgot about £100 for surge protection. Which in my opinion should be strongly recommended.
I didnt hear a word, I was too busy staring at that amazing moustache 👨
Does your Sombrero get in the way Gaz when your installing anything?
All the time 😉
Holy Freeholys. I just looked at how much those AFDDs are :o
Local council just upgraded about 600 flats in high rise blocks to full afdd, spd consumer units.
Sounds like the Grenfell effect rolling out
No wonder my council tax bill keeps going up well above inflation.
@@Benzknees that's cutting the central government funding.
@@efixx definitely, they also fitted sprinklers in every room and currently fitting new front doors with a longer fire rating to every flat.
@@stevecraft00 - If so, I haven’t noticed any reduction in VAT, fuel duties, income taxes, etc., etc..
Aren't those AFDD RCBO's like £125 each? That board must have cost £2k+ in materials alone... I really don't think it makes sense fitting those in a normal domestic property. Comparable RCBO board with SPD from BG or similar would be...£250-£350?
At £130 a breaker, not cost effective at the moment. Great idea though and when they come down In price would defo have it
7:50 - Sorry, I blinked and missed something - did you just change all those new RCBOs for AFDD RCBOs? - Fun! lol
I understand in the 2nd amendment they are going to make us install AFDD's, which is crazy. All that money spent on a new board with only one spare way, seems a bit tight. Interesting that he said it didn't comply with the regs because of a single RCD, yet in your colleagues video he suggested the opposite.
I think Matt was taking about a main switch being an RCCB covering all the circuits. Thanks for commenting 👍
@@efixx yeah I thought that, but in your colleagues video he said if it was a single RCD or twin RCD both complied with the regs, because the regulations were not talking about the RCD, personally I would take the view of the guy in the video.
In fairness this only has one RCD, several lighting circuits had no RCD protection at all so a slightly different issue.
The next set of regs will clarify the use of AFDD which will benefit all as everyone will then price from a level playing field. I also believe that the recommendations will not be all circuit.
Eaton breaker were originally Klockner Moeller equipment
AFDI that I tested on my bench didn't detect a series arcing loose connection using a 2000 watt fan heater. Loose load or neutral terminals faults, I would question the ability of these afds to detect. It worked on parallel phase to neutral arcing at 230vac. Also pointless because, at one house wall fire, that I witnessed, not helped by consumer resetting their trippng circuit. Sparky thought it was the faulty CB so replaced it with a new one. Shortly after this the power point started a fire. Smoke detectors saved them. Also doesn't provide protection on mains switches either in meter boards, submains or consumer board main switch, typically where many fires actually start. Don't know how much protection AFDIs will give consumers in reality. Some USA states have had AFDIs since 2000. Fault finding arc faults and nuisance tripping remains. Consumers don't identify the difference between earth leakage faults, overcurrent and arc faults. Better to have smoke detectors in every bedroom and hallway.
Does that tash come with AFDD?
And no mention of the price of Arc fault RCBO’s ..... most customers would faint on the spot!
Most customers would go with the electrician who says you don't need AFDD.
Lol at having the original install cert on a bulk built property, probably find its shockingly similar numbers to the neighbors.
You might think that ..... 🤣🤣🤣
Thumb's Up.
I want to make mine into a SMART unit... by inserting mcb sized watt meters ....they work over WIFI...
Q: If we are supposed to check we are going to use the correct Earth leakage “type” of RCBO on a circuit which could create “dc masking” and render the RCBO inactive. Does this effect AFDD choice also? Is there such a thing as a “type” when choosing AFDD? I don’t mean type B, C, D, we are all used to, I mean the relative new type of A, AF, etc. Fancy complicating types of rcbos!!
They are available as type A - don’t think you’ll see them going backwards and making type AC
🤣hopefully not. Too much choice is room for too much error! Just need to get the certificate circuit details page up to date with all these “types”, including SPD types/grades, it’s easy to put the wrong device in and not realise immediately.
First off all that CU dose comply with BS7671 health and safety executive’s note , Installations which conform to the standards laid down in BS7671:2008+A3:2015 are regarded by HSE as likely to achieve conformity with the relevant parts of the Electricity at work regulations 1989. Existing installation’s may of been designed and installed to conform to the standards set by earlier editions of BS7671 or the IEE wiring regulations. This does not mean that they will fail to archive conformity with the relevant parts of the electricity at work regulations 1989. Also regulations can only be applied from the date they came in to force, they can not be back dated to an earlier date. To say and tell the client that the CU doesn’t comply with BS 7671 is wrong . SPDs and AFDDs are not yet mandatory so we should only install them if the client asked for them. We should also test the installation according to BS767 18th edition and if all tests with in specified tolerance set out in BS7671 and a visual inspection show no signs of damage or overheating then we should not change it . A ring main can have as many socket outlets as you want so long as the total load does not exceed the design current , so what was stopping him from extending the rig and the lighting ? Boost his income and for get the rest . Sorry just my own personal opinion. But who am I am just a spark, and my opinion means nothing 🤣 Great video as always Gaz .👍👍👍❤️
Why has that house got 14 circuits? (Assuming that the four with no labels are actually connected to something.)
Great video, questionable tash.
#movember
Wonder how reliable the new AFDD’s will be compared to an RCBO? More surface mount electronics to potentially fail?
Are there a lot of cases of RCBOs failing?
@@IAmThe_RA Don’t know, just asking the question as AFDD’s clearly have more microelectronics built in. Too early to comment re reliability I suppose.
Always interesting to see how it can be done, even though those breakers would be way off limit for most at the moment. Also interesting to see how dedicated you Brits are to the metal enclosures now (I mean you have to fit them there now). I’m from Sweden, and we use plastic, and from what I have heard there’s really no indication of the regulations changing here. As always great video!
How do you test a AFDD?
Checkout David Savery on KZhead
@@efixx Saverys magic bin
It’s complicated because there is no single one type of arc test equipment will be limited it’s gonna take more research and effort to get a comprehensive testing device.
Just waiting for AFDD prices to drop… in the meantime continue with RCBOs with surge protection
why didn't Matt fit the AFDD first as now he has some second-hand RCBOs
I thought that,made more work,guessing he has a deal on populated boards
That hole in wall for the cables entry is rough. 😳
RCBO’s all day Much more convenient if things go tits up! Stick freezers and fire safety stuff on separate circuits
Did the get client get told much a year it costs to run each AFDD!
How Much Power Does an AFDD Consume? kzhead.info/sun/esxqnreegneAho0/bejne.html
Ze taken with the earth in circuit?
Is there a reason that Type A RCBOs (/AFDD RCBOs) have been installed for the PV system?
DC Leakage
@@paullyons4624 yes, isn't that exactly why you wouldn't install a type A RCBO?
@@tomcardale5596 Think you've got your models mixed up. Type A RCBO is suitable for DC pulsating leakage up to 6 ma. Note the ~ ac symbol and the - symbol below for dc marked on the breakers.
@@effervescence5664 I think that's almost exactly what I was getting at but also almost exactly the opposite! As I understand it there's AC (AC only), A (AC & pulsed DC), and B (AC & pure DC). Clearly AC is wrong, and given the prevalence of switched mode power supplies in electronics it's right that these are going by the wayside. I should preface the next bit by saying I have never really paid much attention to domestic solar. The solar I am involved in tends to be larger scale and installed (deliberately) to avoid the need for RCDs. It's entirely possible I've missed something and it's entirely possible that I'm picking up on something that's either not possible or not a thing, hence the query. Since making the query I have gone from "I think something might have been missed" to "I think I need to do some more research" and this research follows. In summary, it depends but I think a 30mA type A RCD is wrong but not for the reasons I originally thought. The IET's code of practice in section 8.8 says that transformerless inverters (that's most of them) "may be able to feed a DC current in to the AC side. This DC element may not be picked up by a conventional RCD and may also hinder its normal operation. A type B RCD is, by construction, able to handle and detect both AC and DC residual currents". The COP says that where an RCD is required (and in another section it gives lots of reasons why you probably don't want to if you don't have to) it must be a type B. BS7671 712.411.3.2.1.2 says "Where an electrical installation includes a PV power supply system without at least simple separation between the AC side and DC side, an RCD installed to provide either fault protection by automatic disconnection of supply or additional protection in according with Regulation 415.1.1, for the PV supply cable shall be Type B.... Where the PV converter is, by construction, not able to feed DC fault currents into the electrical installation, an RCD of Type B is not required". "Simple separation: separation between circuits or between a circuit and earth by means of basic insulation" - which I think means that any transformerless inverter doesn't meet that. So, I think this poses the big question "can the inverter inject DC in to the RCD?" because if it does it must be a type B. Looking at SMA's datasheet for the STP25000TL (it's one of our more common inverters) it says it contains an "all-pole sensitive residual-current monitoring unit" whatever that means. The STP50-40 is the same. Diving in to the operating manual it says "The inverter is compatible with type A and B residual current devices that have a rated residual current of 100mA or higher" and then references this document, "Criteria for selecting a residual current device" files.sma.de/downloads/RCD-TI-en-45.pdf which is quite boring! For the STP40-50 (50kW) "The inverter is compatible with type B residual-current devices that have a rated residual current of 300 mA or higher". I checked their smaller inverters and they require a minimum of 100mA too. Amendment 1 of BS7671 relating to EV charging has similar requirements. Either use a Type B RCD or where you use a Type A RCD then the charger must incorporate DC residual current monitoring.
@@tomcardale5596 thank you for this, very interesting and answered a lot of questions I'd been asking myself. Although it may also be worth looking at the costs and availability of type B RCDs.
Cost of afdd/rcbo £185.00 per breaker £145.00 for the wylex board £3500.00 just for the board. Bargin.
Wife, son, daughter and a house worth £350,000 now the safety features of the board looks cheap... cost is 1% if the family are thrown in for free.
@@efixx I do appreciate what your saying it's just that the cost at the moment it's out of the price range of most people.
Totally agree 🦾👍
Im guessing light switches dont give the afdd’s problems now.
The power on lighting circuits is unlikely to trip AFDD. Thinking your safe when your not is more dangerous.
What would that cost to install?
Shhh - we don’t talk about that £££
Most of the homes I go too have such crap wiring the arc fault breakers would be constantly tripping, a good thing I guess but a headache for the electrician.
Needs to be a sustained arc and not a switching arc and the circuit must be reasonably loaded to trip the AFDD.
Exactly, all those shower pull switches and cooker switches arcing away and loose spurs with heaters plugged in. Come across them every week.
A Blast from the past - Face Fuzz wise 😂
#movember 👍
He must be doing it for a bet.
Nice one guys. But my understanding is such devices are not a requirement but an option and is left to the client to decide if they want them or not ? I know I can be moaney old fat and I don’t like modern technology but Gaz if I am wrong then what’s with the Victorian musstash ?👍😂 joking mate you look 👍
AFDD on a ring circuit .......are you sure ?
Note the lack of costing for the AFDDs...
Price will always be different depending on the electrical wholesaler you use 👍
@@efixx But more than £100 each, yeah? Would you honestly fit them (paying full price) in your own home lol?
@@efixx Not much though. Ball-park £2,500 would be pretty accurate for budgeting purposes.
Those AFDDs are £155.70inc on CEFs website, that’s over £2500 plus the SPD, enclosure and installation. I think I will start sticking them on the van....said nobody ever 😂
Why wasn’t the fuseboard chased in the fooking wall? 😑 Has the arc detection gone cheap? Hager wanted a butt cheek per back in 2017.. did that customer just get a metal (conductive) box with almost 3 grand worth of arc detection?
Lol only if requested looks fine as it is
A Hager flush fitted board would of looked better there
Was he standing on a hop-up at the start?
Struggling to concentrate Gary the Moustache is pretty bold!
#movember
@@efixx I checked the release date as soon as I saw the vid. "This has got to be #movember!" 😎
a dozen RCBO's? Definitely oversold. Like tripping happens every year.
solar pv anf hottub.....??!
NOTHING IS WRONG WITH PLASTIC BOARDS IF INSTALLED CORRECTLY
Exactly! We have installed plastic consumer units here in Denmark since the 1970s and we still do, and we NEVER have any problems with them. Also most of Europe is using plastic consumer units, they are after all made self extinguishing plastic rated @ 850°C.
I think it is decidedly disingenuous not to mention the very significant additional cost of installing AFDDs especially since (was it four?) additional ways have been equipped for potential future developments.
5:40 a good Ze reading there. I could be wrong as it’s not zoomed in but it looks to be clamped onto the MET rather than the disconnected conductor. Worth mentioning as I had a very confused student ask me about this very thing recently.
@@fearthebeardorg yes people always seem to muddle the procedure for Ze Vs psfc
£50 for a wylex SPD. Please let the whole world know from where?
Buy the fully populated one from Toolstation and sell the bits you don’t need on eBay - www.toolstation.com/wylex-metal-dual-type-a-rcd-consumer-unit-8-mcbs-spd
Even if it's £100, fitting TVOP to all DB'S is excellent value for money.
The size of that consumer unit with all those circuits and the extra circuits to be put in . A good call to fit rcbo . Dread to think of price of all those afdd fitted 😥😥
Thanks for commenting 👍
About £2,500
That was a Zs measurement and not a Ze as stated.
How does a plastic CU offer limited earth fault frotection, its plastic it does not conduct any fault to the casing will not put anybody in danger, but if the earth is missing frm the metal consumer unit and there is a fault to case then the user could get an electric shock. 15 AFDD at around £90+Vat each and £120+VAT for the CU and this is just the retail cost, so this makes the board change an expensive business.
1:46...the board does not have to comply with the latest 7671 !! Regs are NOT retrospective. Has a wall mounted board like this ever ever caught fire ? The answer is no.
bruh, how can I take this video serious with that tash, HULK HOGANNNNNNNNN:'D good quality video after the initial shock though!
The moustache 😂