I wanted to share the method I use to Measure Pinion Depth with just simple tools
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Great video. I could see exactly where you were going with your strategy from the start. You were able to find the pinion depth, to axle center point, using a straight edge and caliper. Two affordable and generally useful tools. WELL DONE! The more common method is to use a setup bearing and trial and error. That can be VERY tedious and time consuming. This gives you the best shot at one and done and who doesn't want that? Thank you for posting this.
@michaeldose204110 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and leaving a great comment. How you subscribed.
@acmemachining10 ай бұрын
Nice job. The biggest thing for me is being ‘self taught’ mostly because any possible instruction in my past has been trial-and-error mechanics that act like it’s a secret black art because they can’t explain what they are doing or measure it. I’ve done a few diffs but knew just enough to get it right and understand why. But great video that affirms my knowledge and taught me a coupla things. Between this and metalshaper’s vids I feel like the next one I do (Dana 30 of my own) I will know exactly what I’m doing and why, and you just saved me $800 :) I actually found this video because I realized it’s just numbers and I thought it likely there was something like this method which would work. So you saved me a bunch of money AND saved me from reinventing the wheel.
@fishhuntadventure16 күн бұрын
Glad you enjoyed the video and it helped you. The math is simple, just a lot of it. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you will subscribe and enjoy my other videos.
@acmemachining16 күн бұрын
This was a great video. At work, I don’t really go this in depth into a differential. This made me feel like I was doing the measurements with him. Great stuff
@ballaholic327953 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@acmemachining3 ай бұрын
I can tell you are a wealth of knowledge. It's evident that you care a lot to share your knowledge and for that I salute you. Tradesmen like yourself, craftsmen if I may call you that, as I hold that term dearly... are few and far between. Please keep up the good work and trust that if even 10% of what you share for us young bucks falls upon useful ears.... you will have succeeded in your endeavor. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time and caring enough to share your hard earned wisdom. Subscribed for certain.
@mrmotorbreathmfg35404 ай бұрын
Good to hear and Thank You.
@acmemachining4 ай бұрын
Thanks for the time/money saving tips. Very easy to understand!
@11100010010100110 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed>
@acmemachining10 ай бұрын
I wanted to thank you for your video. I is my first time doing a rear end rebuild and you made it almost easy! Lol. Thank you for what you do!
@do67249 ай бұрын
So Glad it helped. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining9 ай бұрын
Highly informative, spot on!
@therealmikebizzle31753 ай бұрын
Thank You, Glad You Enjoyed It.
@acmemachining3 ай бұрын
Game changer. Thank you for posting this video.
@preachers413510 ай бұрын
Beats the heck out of guessing. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining10 ай бұрын
Awesome video thanks for taking the time
@michaelherold1814 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and Commenting. Hope you subscribed
@acmemachining4 ай бұрын
Super simple,thanks so much ,takes the fear of the unknown
@michaelfackler9716 Жыл бұрын
Thanks Michael. Glad you enjoyed the video and it was helpful. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the detailed video
@mailbox_money1197 Жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
Great video, old school method , thanks .
@paulruffo-dy4ls4 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and Commenting. Glad you enjoyed it.
@acmemachining4 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing , going with my grandson !!!
@oscarwilson595311 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching & commenting. I hope you & your grandson have a good time working on this together. Please subcribe.
@acmemachining11 ай бұрын
great video thats the way i was taught in 1978, thank you
@mikecondoluci5310 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining10 ай бұрын
Great video Tod! I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us less learned in the ways of setting gears. This is exactly what I've been looking for as I will be attempting a regearing of a Dana 44 for my son's Cherokee in the coming months. AND, it is not too much math! Actually, right in my wheelhouse. I had a spreadsheet put together before the video ended. Now all that I have to do is "plug and chug" the numbers. I do not have the new ring and pinion set yet which leaves me with a question for you. What is the significance of the plus or minus number that is on the face of the replacement pinion gear? For example, if it marked with a +2, I assume that represents .002 of a difference from the factory original, but how is that applied to the Mounting Distance? Or is it applied to the Checking Distance? Thanks!
@joepoznik8156 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching and commenting. Glad you enjoyed it. Hoped you subscribed.
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
Just my Pinion, but this is an awesome video. Thanks Tod😊
@marcflaro2011 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
Thank You for making this video. I'm a machinist too so this way is way easier than making my own centering jig. However, I just bought a set of yukon gears, and USA Standard gears, and they both do not come with pinion depth markings. They strongly recommend using the existing pinion shim and starting from there. Shoot, that's what I would've done anyway before buying Chinese depth mics and $20 highspeed tool bits as my straight edge lol.
@CheeHooGarage10 ай бұрын
Hopefully that worked out for you when you checked your gear pattern. I hate when they don't give you pinion depth measurement or depth marking. Usually they are at zero if they don't have any markings, but you don't know until you read your gear pattern. Thanks for watching and commenting, hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining10 ай бұрын
@@acmemachining definitely subscribed! We'll see how it goes, video coming soon and I'll be shouting you out 👍
@CheeHooGarage10 ай бұрын
Hopefully I send some views your way! kzhead.info/sun/qaipitGOi5-sn6c/bejne.html
@CheeHooGarage10 ай бұрын
If you test mount the pinion using the old bearing that you’ve sanded or ground down to measure pinion depth do you NOT use the crush washer for the test install? Also would you still torque it to spec? I am assuming you would have to. Thanks
@MichaelMuller18 ай бұрын
Correct - I do not use crush spacer when doing test fits, and I always torque pinion bearings to rotating preload spec. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining8 ай бұрын
Good video, thanks for sharing. I make test bearings, I use the honing machine. In my case I have an LBB1699 Sunnen. You can save the bearing for the next time. This is an absolute must on Dana's. Good idea for someone that does not have a pinion depth setting fixture. Thanks for sharing. Just subscribed. Take care, Ed.
@edsmachine93 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching, commenting and subscribing. I also subscribed to your channel
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
@@acmemachiningThank you for Subscribing. I really appreciate you. Take care, Ed.
@edsmachine93 Жыл бұрын
I did the same. Bought 2 sets of bearing. Used a flap wheel. Kept checking them on the differential till it was just snug. The same for the pinion. Then I used the old pinion shim as a starting point. Looked at my pattern. I adjusted the shim until my pattern came around. Tightened everything to specs. Took the final pattern. I was satisfied. Took it all apart and put on the new bearings by heating them in hot gear oil. Each one popped on. I took the housing to the local car wash. Got a bottle of dawn and away I went. Housing dried off and cleaned. Then the final assembly. I spent 4 days. A local shop up the road messed up the differential before I got it. My brother in law was very mad. So he ordered new gears and bearings. Seals and oil. It's was out of a 3/4 ton Ford van. I was very happy on the final results.
@2nickles6479 күн бұрын
The technique and information is there however the videography could have been better and some dead time could have been edited out. You explained why you used the digital caliper however it should be noted that for depth measurements with a caliper it is extremely difficult to be really accurate and it only takes a few thousandth of an inch to throw the pinion depth out of wack. Additionally I would not recommend prying up on a gear tooth unless your planing on replacing the ring gear.
@DrivelineMaster3 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and commenting. I tried to use simple tools that people might have without speading thousands on tools to do a $600 job. I do agree with your comments.
@acmemachining3 ай бұрын
Thanks for such an interesting video i want to learn how to fix ring n pinion when differential goes bad👍
@cesarcarofelix40965 ай бұрын
Glad you liked it. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining5 ай бұрын
I have an 04 dodge ram 1500 the rear differential blended up and it’s just bad you are going to help me re build it thank you for your help now I don’t need to buy fancy tools
@gustavoservin380511 ай бұрын
Thanks glad it helps. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining11 ай бұрын
Great video. Thank you. Good information.
@mjadams4272Ай бұрын
Oh yeah, I'm concerned about your shirt choice at the end... ;-)
@mjadams4272Ай бұрын
I had to re-shoot the ending, so I had different shirt on. That shirt states the truth - doesn't it.
@acmemachiningАй бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it.
@acmemachiningАй бұрын
Great vid. Thank you. If you are only doing bearings and not messing with carrier internals, can you reuse your crush sleeve? I get mixed responses to that question. I will be doing this on jack stands in the garage, so trying to minimize this. I have this exact rear end in the video. Thanks
@BBDosАй бұрын
Always use new crush sleeve when ever removed or over-tightened. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachiningАй бұрын
@@acmemachining "Always use new crush sleeve when ever removed or over-tightened." So true.
@mjadams4272Ай бұрын
Great Video For Me! I can set-up my GM10 rear end, and combine with the listed guide on Google, I can precisely figure the measurements. Thanks a bunch!
@StephenGiovi2 ай бұрын
Glad it helped! Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subcribe and share with friends.
@acmemachining2 ай бұрын
Chevy 10 Bolt. Pinion shaft in the freezer bearing in the Oven 350 degrees. Added my shims when the pinion shaft came out of the freezer and dropped my bearing slam dunk right down on the shaft ! No press needed!
@pbettselectric1349 ай бұрын
That works great. Hot oil works better than just in the oven. I use cooking oil in my wife's oven. I am sure she does want to smell Hypioid next time see uses the oven. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining9 ай бұрын
Strong move .. 😁😆😅🤣🤗@@acmemachining
@PredatorBOLTАй бұрын
Beast...yeah it can be difficult to comprehend...but review it a few times....great explanation
@jimseyfried128510 күн бұрын
Thanks for watching and commenting. A lot of math involved in gears, can be difficult at times. Hope you will subscribe.
@acmemachining10 күн бұрын
Hi Tod, Nice overview. I use similar methods, with one change- curious about your thoughts. I have always used the side bearing cap mating surface as an axle centerline reference. One reason being, the bearing race could shift slightly with the cap removed and give a false reading. Another, its simpler. The in the shown description also- while explaining a method for bearing replacement, over looks some aspects if replacing gears. I have found that even with some well-known brand name gears, the pinion nose isn't very flat or lacks a machined spot to reference for setting depth to the gear manufacturers specification. This leads to a lot of variation, depending on the spot used for measuring. So I have sometimes found the gear pattern to be a less than desirable result and/or mildly noisy setups. Another thing I have found, again- even with well-known brands, backlash can vary excessively in different checking locations. Runout on the carrier is acceptable, and relocating the ring gear to different positions doesn't fix it. I have usually tried to find a reasonable compromise, where the lash is slightly tight in the tightest spot, and slightly loose in the loosest spot. "as good as its gonna get"
@mbliss0111 ай бұрын
I have found the parting line to be off on some diff cases. So I will check for bearing centering to be sure. Usually when I remove bearing caps preload holds diff in place so it is easy to measure. You can check bearing parting line and measure to check if centered, but that will require proper round tip on depth mic. I use a magnetic ball bearing in the drill pilot hole of the pinion to take my measurements if it doesn't have another good reference surface to measure from. As for back lash tight in some spots and loose in other, you have to check for bent carrier or poor quality gear set. I don't like more than 0.001" varience. It might work on the street but fail under heavier loads. Thanks for watching & commenting, hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining11 ай бұрын
Very very good video, thanks for posting it. My only question is, does this procedure assume that your pinion depth is set correctly to begin with? Thanks very much again for this video.
@BillySBC7 ай бұрын
Great question. We have to assume a lot of the time. Checking the gear pattern will tell if it was set correctly before disassembly. Depending if bearings and or gear are worn. These reading are recommended for setting new bearings and or gears as per manufacture specs. They want you to use very expensive tools. This procedure will save you money but take a little more time. Thanks for watching and commenting. I hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining7 ай бұрын
Love the shirt
@nathanjockel611910 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and subscribing. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining10 ай бұрын
⭕️👍thank you for this information good sir
@prepertruckin85252 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching a commenting. Glad it was he;pful. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining2 ай бұрын
12:10 weird flex but ok, don’t have to come at me personally like that… 😂
@anubis8680Ай бұрын
LOL I was talking about 8" Mitutoyo Vernier Caliper. Maybe next video I will have to get out the 12" Starrett, or would that be "Stare At It " You made me laugh. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining29 күн бұрын
Thanks good information and no music
@rustymachineshop94562 ай бұрын
Glad you liked it
@acmemachining2 ай бұрын
On many GM rears, especially 12 bolts and possibly other makes of rears, you can often using a Dana type shim under the bearing cup in the housing, rather than pulling the pinion bearing. On a 12 bolt Chevy, usually more gear requires a thicker pinion gear shim. If you start with the original thickness and end up needing more shim, you can knock loose the bearing cup from the housing and add a Dana style shin and avoid pulling the pinion gear bearing.
@BrandonLeeBrown10 ай бұрын
Yes you can if it is available. But remember if the next guy doesn't understand why you did it he will likely say it was done wrong, as per service manual.
@acmemachining10 ай бұрын
@@acmemachining The Dana 60 shim will fit the 12 bolt Chevy and others. Hopefully the next guy changes bearings when he changes gears, so he should run into the shim behind the bearing cup. :)
@BrandonLeeBrown9 ай бұрын
Thank you for the video. Question- you have nominal (3.125) listed on the diagram at the beginning. However your measurement Is less. So is mine. Where did you get that nominal measurement?
@alanstrain80113 күн бұрын
That diagram was not for this differential, it just shows the measurement and where they are being taken. Looking at that diagram with a mounting distance of 5.? inches that differential would be almost a 10" ring gear and most of todays diffs are about 8.25" unless 3/4 ton truck or larger. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining13 күн бұрын
Got it. Would have helped to have shown the figures and the math. Great setup for spreadsheet. Just watched another video that used a $500 tool. I like your better.
@lloydballard70512 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the helpful tip. I will try to use white-board for videos like this.
@acmemachining2 ай бұрын
That stem at your left hand is the part that you use to measure that depth
@williamdillingham578111 ай бұрын
You can use either end of a caliper to measure depth, the thin probe on the skinny end, or between the end surfaces of to jaw head. Take a look the the big end and you will notice both jaws are flush at zero and can be used to measure depth. This end give you and more square surface to get accurite readings. If that end is too large to fit, turn it around and use the skinny end. Took years before I seen them used this way, and it is some much easier if you have the room. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining11 ай бұрын
Does this same process work on a Ford 8 inch on 69 Mustang?
@fdwsr714 ай бұрын
Good question. The older ford differentials come out the front and don't have a rear cover. So you have to make/ buy an axle bar that fits in the side bearing holders to measure the pinion depth. Same princible but that axle bar would be a spacific tool. Must of these older diffs you would have multible front carriers with different gear ratios and just change complete front carrier. You could have one for highway driving and one for race weekend. Thanks for watching and commenting and subcribing.
@acmemachining4 ай бұрын
When I use this information to try to gauge my pinion depth, I'm getting some strange numbers. Based on what I've measured and calculated, I should be using 0.158 of shims. Does that seem unusual? That's the factory shim, plus nearly every shim that came in the kit I got. If I install that many shims, I can't get any backlash at all. So obviously I'm doing something wrong. I just don't know what. My pinion has the number 092 written on it. The ring has a D22092 on it. I'm assuming my mounting depth then is 5.092? The pinion is 1.99 without a shim, the center of my axle is 2.44 from the surface of my diff housing. Thanks
@colliswilliams8992Ай бұрын
What was the original measurement of pinion before removing and do you have the right spec for pinion depth? Most pinion shims are under 0.035". If you can't get spec for your diff's pinion start with factor shim and check contact pattern with marking paint. If you have measurement from original pinion you can select shim through calculating difference. Some manufactures done give pinion depth spec, they just give what you should be measure with their special tools. I hope this helps. Do force anything and repeat until contact pattern is correct.
@acmemachiningАй бұрын
@@acmemachiningthanks for replying. I'm not sure on the depth of the original pinion , but I got the bearing off in one piece and honed it out until it slip fits. Should the check distance of the old pinion be the same as the new? That would simplify the problem.
@colliswilliams8992Ай бұрын
I hope it works out for you. The best things about challenges is you make you so much better for working through them. Hope you subscribed. Thanks for watching & commenting.
@acmemachiningАй бұрын
Instead of using the cover face, which isn't machined with the same tool, i use the bearing cap surfaces, which are the actual center of axle rotation.
@jimsperlakis5634Ай бұрын
The bearings cap surfaces are not always centerline. They are align bored just like engine main bearings. Most are perfect but some are off and that would ruin the job. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@acmemachiningАй бұрын
Many pinions are not machined on the face you were referencing so it is dangerous to measure from there. If you are putting back the same parts no gears no problem but if there is a change you could wind up with it incorrect.
@bcbloc02 Жыл бұрын
There is always something to screw up a good plan. I have used ball bearing in center pilot if available to still get mounting distance, but sometimes you do get ones you can't measure. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😊
@williamwatts1974 Жыл бұрын
🤦♂️
@johnphillipsjr723811 ай бұрын
I need some information about gear petrron
@muhammadnadeemahmed10407 күн бұрын
Lots of videos available on gear patterns. Unfortunately I do have a video or a diff to make a video at this time. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you check out my other videos & subscribe.
@acmemachining7 күн бұрын
That's all fine and dandy how your doing that but the pinion depth is pretty critical and all those measurements your taking off of different surface's your liable to be off a few thousands. Also if the rear-end has been worked on before who knows if it was set up right to begin with. That rear-end did not come out of a ram 1500. It's a Dana 60. They never installed them on a 1/2 ton ram. 3.125 is the pinion depth on a 60. Just get the right tools for the job instead of cobbling something together. Setting up axle gears right is pretty important if you want them to last. Especially if you using it to off road or pulling.
@MASmitty3 күн бұрын
Title of video is about using simple tools, not how to spend a thousand dollars on tools to save 5 hours labor. This diff came out of a 2012 Ram 1500 VIN 1C6RD7GT8CS118883 customer still has the truck. Diff is also too small for any severe off roading or pulling. Final check for any diff work is pattern checking, so if my method got a totally previously messed up differential to within a few thousands on the first try, to be corrected after checking pattern with gear paint, good job.
@acmemachining3 күн бұрын
Yes indeed babe . Life is a marathon, not a sprint . That’s old school there !
@keithwhitesr5293 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching and commenting. Glad you enjoyed it.
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
#Roger
@DaddyForeverYess9 ай бұрын
Thanks
@acmemachining9 ай бұрын
Correction pinion shaft in the freezer!!!
@pbettselectric1349 ай бұрын
Just remember this will only work if you are replacing that ring and pinion with the exact same gear ratio ring and pinion. If you're changing to like a 456 gear you need to know pinion depth from the gear manufacturer
@cecilandrews7479 Жыл бұрын
Gear manufacture usually will give you pinion depth for their gear set. Then you can calculate required shim with these measurements. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
Even then, i still would still be marking gears and checking backlash rather than go of basically an arbitrary measurement.
@thegenrl11 ай бұрын
You always have to check/ set backlash and check pattern. These mearsurements are so you done have to pull pinion back out (most of the times). Thanks for watching and commenting, hope you subcribed.
@acmemachining11 ай бұрын
Wrong, Pinion depth is calculated from the ring gear diameter not from the gear ratio. You do not change your depth by gear ratio. Beside what is scribed on the back of the pinion is to give you an idea of what size of shims to start out with. Diff cases are not all machined exactly the same.
@MASmitty3 күн бұрын
I feel like your Making a little extra work for yourself in calculations. Lay bar across, measure down to bearing cap mounting surface. Zero your caliper and directly measure pinion depth. I've had great success doing it this way for years.
@kev90sc7 ай бұрын
You are assuming bearing cap mounting surface is centerline of bearing. That may not be correct and that assumption can be costly. I perfer a little extra work rather than a redo. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@acmemachining7 ай бұрын
You don't need the tool for the dana 70 95 dodge 2500 8.0
@SubieRow7 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and commenting. Some diffs are easier than others and require less tools. Hope you subscribed.
@acmemachining7 ай бұрын
A lot of these measurments are set in manufacture, why complicate this task. the only size needed is the depth to the pinion. Why not use the vernier with the depth guage, instead of the jaws?
@johnevans738911 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and commenting. You can use either end of your vernier. I have had customers bring ring and pinion issues for repair after someone got it wrong. This is how I get back on the right track without removing pinion many times. Manufactures have specs & procedures that require thousand of dollar worth of special tools that may only work on one make and model. I shared this just to show that you can do it with a good pair of vernier calipers. Thanks again, I hope you will subscribe.
@acmemachining11 ай бұрын
Hello sir how are you
@muhammadnadeemahmed10407 күн бұрын
Good Thank You
@acmemachining7 күн бұрын
way too much struggle pulling the ring gear assy. all he had to do was reach around and rotate the pinion..
@fwyx11 ай бұрын
It alot easier when it is attached to a vehicle. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed
@acmemachining11 ай бұрын
Borrow or rent a pinion depth gauge setup, you you will get a first time proper measurement. Use this method if you can send yourself back in time with a time machine ( preferably model- T auto years ).
@eugenenault49352 ай бұрын
Why don't you just pay somebody to do it for you. But that not the subject of this video is it? Don't disrespect the model T's some of them are still on the road, and people who learn how to use simple tools can still work on them. Maybe you could do a video on how to rent and borrow things.
@acmemachining2 ай бұрын
Way to much math and confusing. Backlash and patterning is all you need.
@jasonlee9326 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching and commenting. 90% of the time you can just change parts and get away with nothing more, but when it does not work that way you better know the math or have really deep pockets. Diff parts are not cheap so I always take the time to measure. That way it is done right the first time.
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
HOW DO YOU GET THE RIGHT TOOTH PATTERN BY KNOWING THE PINION DEPTH AND WHAT SIZE SHIM TO ADD OR SUBTRACT NEED TO MEASURE AND DO THE MATH IF NOT REAREND WILL MAKE NOISE OR EVEN WEAROUT BADLY AND BREAK AND CORRECT PINION BEARING PRELOAD CARRIERBEARING PRELOAD ALL IMPORTANT IF TO TIGHT BURNBEARING TO LOOSE WEAR OUT NOISEY AND DAMAGE. ITS NOT FOR EVERY ONE AND ITS NOT EASY YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHY AND HOW HOPE THAT HELPS TAKECARE
@allanfranco4464 Жыл бұрын
Rear diffs can be fun if you keep track of what you are doing. The fun goes away when you check you pattern with gear paint and find out you need to take the pinion back out, which can cost you for new bearing, crush spacer and possible nut. That why I like to measure them as they come apart. Sometimes a customer will show up with rear diff in a basket (aka Basket case) and ask "can you fix it?" Then you need to start with some base line numbers and measurements to do it right. Not all jobs are easy. Thanks for commenting and watching. There are many pinion shim charts on google that help you understand pinion markings. I always torque for rotating preload inch-lbs and not the ft-lbs spec listed in manual. Hope this helps - goodluck with your projects.
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
Way too much math.measure from bearing centerline to face of pinion gear, that's the pinion depth. Bearing centerline is the flat surface where the bearing cap mounts.
@scottnusser6232 Жыл бұрын
Not all bearing caps are at bearing centerline, caps are torqued in place before line boring for side bearing cups. Measurement have to be made while pinion bearings are torqued to specified preload. Usually pinion nut has over 200lb-ft of torque before turning resistance is 20 - 30 lb-in, so you can't just measure to the bearing surface. That would be too easy. Thanks for watching and your comment, they help people understand why. Also some replacement gear sets will have checking distance etched on the end of the pinion and this is why we need to know this measurement. Thanks again!
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
@@acmemachining so you now I'm a 62 yrs old fossil. Been setting tears up for awhile now. The actual tool for doing this measurement has half moon adapter's that seat in rear housing where side bearing seat. Never have seen axle center line not be same as center line of side bearing cap split. Would have see that. Maybe show in future vidios. Thank you , Scotty S&EAuto
@scottnusser6232 Жыл бұрын
You are using the correct tool and finding centerline to be same as most bearing cap split. That is good to know. I hate to assume that all will be always the same. I respect your experience and your comments. You know the importance of having these measurements. I just wanted to show how to get them without special measuring set-ups. Thanks
@acmemachining Жыл бұрын
@@acmemachining Thanks for video. Always more than one way to skin a cat. Have a good day and thanks for feedback.
Great video. I could see exactly where you were going with your strategy from the start. You were able to find the pinion depth, to axle center point, using a straight edge and caliper. Two affordable and generally useful tools. WELL DONE! The more common method is to use a setup bearing and trial and error. That can be VERY tedious and time consuming. This gives you the best shot at one and done and who doesn't want that? Thank you for posting this.
Thanks for watching and leaving a great comment. How you subscribed.
Nice job. The biggest thing for me is being ‘self taught’ mostly because any possible instruction in my past has been trial-and-error mechanics that act like it’s a secret black art because they can’t explain what they are doing or measure it. I’ve done a few diffs but knew just enough to get it right and understand why. But great video that affirms my knowledge and taught me a coupla things. Between this and metalshaper’s vids I feel like the next one I do (Dana 30 of my own) I will know exactly what I’m doing and why, and you just saved me $800 :) I actually found this video because I realized it’s just numbers and I thought it likely there was something like this method which would work. So you saved me a bunch of money AND saved me from reinventing the wheel.
Glad you enjoyed the video and it helped you. The math is simple, just a lot of it. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you will subscribe and enjoy my other videos.
This was a great video. At work, I don’t really go this in depth into a differential. This made me feel like I was doing the measurements with him. Great stuff
Glad it was helpful!
I can tell you are a wealth of knowledge. It's evident that you care a lot to share your knowledge and for that I salute you. Tradesmen like yourself, craftsmen if I may call you that, as I hold that term dearly... are few and far between. Please keep up the good work and trust that if even 10% of what you share for us young bucks falls upon useful ears.... you will have succeeded in your endeavor. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time and caring enough to share your hard earned wisdom. Subscribed for certain.
Good to hear and Thank You.
Thanks for the time/money saving tips. Very easy to understand!
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed>
I wanted to thank you for your video. I is my first time doing a rear end rebuild and you made it almost easy! Lol. Thank you for what you do!
So Glad it helped. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
Highly informative, spot on!
Thank You, Glad You Enjoyed It.
Game changer. Thank you for posting this video.
Beats the heck out of guessing. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you subscribed.
Awesome video thanks for taking the time
Thanks for watching and Commenting. Hope you subscribed
Super simple,thanks so much ,takes the fear of the unknown
Thanks Michael. Glad you enjoyed the video and it was helpful. Hope you subscribed.
Thanks for the detailed video
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, old school method , thanks .
Thanks for watching and Commenting. Glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks for sharing , going with my grandson !!!
Thanks for watching & commenting. I hope you & your grandson have a good time working on this together. Please subcribe.
great video thats the way i was taught in 1978, thank you
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you subscribed.
Great video Tod! I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us less learned in the ways of setting gears. This is exactly what I've been looking for as I will be attempting a regearing of a Dana 44 for my son's Cherokee in the coming months. AND, it is not too much math! Actually, right in my wheelhouse. I had a spreadsheet put together before the video ended. Now all that I have to do is "plug and chug" the numbers. I do not have the new ring and pinion set yet which leaves me with a question for you. What is the significance of the plus or minus number that is on the face of the replacement pinion gear? For example, if it marked with a +2, I assume that represents .002 of a difference from the factory original, but how is that applied to the Mounting Distance? Or is it applied to the Checking Distance? Thanks!
Thanks for watching and commenting. Glad you enjoyed it. Hoped you subscribed.
Just my Pinion, but this is an awesome video. Thanks Tod😊
Thanks for watching!
Thank You for making this video. I'm a machinist too so this way is way easier than making my own centering jig. However, I just bought a set of yukon gears, and USA Standard gears, and they both do not come with pinion depth markings. They strongly recommend using the existing pinion shim and starting from there. Shoot, that's what I would've done anyway before buying Chinese depth mics and $20 highspeed tool bits as my straight edge lol.
Hopefully that worked out for you when you checked your gear pattern. I hate when they don't give you pinion depth measurement or depth marking. Usually they are at zero if they don't have any markings, but you don't know until you read your gear pattern. Thanks for watching and commenting, hope you subscribed.
@@acmemachining definitely subscribed! We'll see how it goes, video coming soon and I'll be shouting you out 👍
Hopefully I send some views your way! kzhead.info/sun/qaipitGOi5-sn6c/bejne.html
If you test mount the pinion using the old bearing that you’ve sanded or ground down to measure pinion depth do you NOT use the crush washer for the test install? Also would you still torque it to spec? I am assuming you would have to. Thanks
Correct - I do not use crush spacer when doing test fits, and I always torque pinion bearings to rotating preload spec. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
Good video, thanks for sharing. I make test bearings, I use the honing machine. In my case I have an LBB1699 Sunnen. You can save the bearing for the next time. This is an absolute must on Dana's. Good idea for someone that does not have a pinion depth setting fixture. Thanks for sharing. Just subscribed. Take care, Ed.
Thanks for watching, commenting and subscribing. I also subscribed to your channel
@@acmemachiningThank you for Subscribing. I really appreciate you. Take care, Ed.
I did the same. Bought 2 sets of bearing. Used a flap wheel. Kept checking them on the differential till it was just snug. The same for the pinion. Then I used the old pinion shim as a starting point. Looked at my pattern. I adjusted the shim until my pattern came around. Tightened everything to specs. Took the final pattern. I was satisfied. Took it all apart and put on the new bearings by heating them in hot gear oil. Each one popped on. I took the housing to the local car wash. Got a bottle of dawn and away I went. Housing dried off and cleaned. Then the final assembly. I spent 4 days. A local shop up the road messed up the differential before I got it. My brother in law was very mad. So he ordered new gears and bearings. Seals and oil. It's was out of a 3/4 ton Ford van. I was very happy on the final results.
The technique and information is there however the videography could have been better and some dead time could have been edited out. You explained why you used the digital caliper however it should be noted that for depth measurements with a caliper it is extremely difficult to be really accurate and it only takes a few thousandth of an inch to throw the pinion depth out of wack. Additionally I would not recommend prying up on a gear tooth unless your planing on replacing the ring gear.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I tried to use simple tools that people might have without speading thousands on tools to do a $600 job. I do agree with your comments.
Thanks for such an interesting video i want to learn how to fix ring n pinion when differential goes bad👍
Glad you liked it. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
I have an 04 dodge ram 1500 the rear differential blended up and it’s just bad you are going to help me re build it thank you for your help now I don’t need to buy fancy tools
Thanks glad it helps. Hope you subscribed.
Great video. Thank you. Good information.
Oh yeah, I'm concerned about your shirt choice at the end... ;-)
I had to re-shoot the ending, so I had different shirt on. That shirt states the truth - doesn't it.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Great vid. Thank you. If you are only doing bearings and not messing with carrier internals, can you reuse your crush sleeve? I get mixed responses to that question. I will be doing this on jack stands in the garage, so trying to minimize this. I have this exact rear end in the video. Thanks
Always use new crush sleeve when ever removed or over-tightened. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
@@acmemachining "Always use new crush sleeve when ever removed or over-tightened." So true.
Great Video For Me! I can set-up my GM10 rear end, and combine with the listed guide on Google, I can precisely figure the measurements. Thanks a bunch!
Glad it helped! Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subcribe and share with friends.
Chevy 10 Bolt. Pinion shaft in the freezer bearing in the Oven 350 degrees. Added my shims when the pinion shaft came out of the freezer and dropped my bearing slam dunk right down on the shaft ! No press needed!
That works great. Hot oil works better than just in the oven. I use cooking oil in my wife's oven. I am sure she does want to smell Hypioid next time see uses the oven. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
Strong move .. 😁😆😅🤣🤗@@acmemachining
Beast...yeah it can be difficult to comprehend...but review it a few times....great explanation
Thanks for watching and commenting. A lot of math involved in gears, can be difficult at times. Hope you will subscribe.
Hi Tod, Nice overview. I use similar methods, with one change- curious about your thoughts. I have always used the side bearing cap mating surface as an axle centerline reference. One reason being, the bearing race could shift slightly with the cap removed and give a false reading. Another, its simpler. The in the shown description also- while explaining a method for bearing replacement, over looks some aspects if replacing gears. I have found that even with some well-known brand name gears, the pinion nose isn't very flat or lacks a machined spot to reference for setting depth to the gear manufacturers specification. This leads to a lot of variation, depending on the spot used for measuring. So I have sometimes found the gear pattern to be a less than desirable result and/or mildly noisy setups. Another thing I have found, again- even with well-known brands, backlash can vary excessively in different checking locations. Runout on the carrier is acceptable, and relocating the ring gear to different positions doesn't fix it. I have usually tried to find a reasonable compromise, where the lash is slightly tight in the tightest spot, and slightly loose in the loosest spot. "as good as its gonna get"
I have found the parting line to be off on some diff cases. So I will check for bearing centering to be sure. Usually when I remove bearing caps preload holds diff in place so it is easy to measure. You can check bearing parting line and measure to check if centered, but that will require proper round tip on depth mic. I use a magnetic ball bearing in the drill pilot hole of the pinion to take my measurements if it doesn't have another good reference surface to measure from. As for back lash tight in some spots and loose in other, you have to check for bent carrier or poor quality gear set. I don't like more than 0.001" varience. It might work on the street but fail under heavier loads. Thanks for watching & commenting, hope you subscribed.
Very very good video, thanks for posting it. My only question is, does this procedure assume that your pinion depth is set correctly to begin with? Thanks very much again for this video.
Great question. We have to assume a lot of the time. Checking the gear pattern will tell if it was set correctly before disassembly. Depending if bearings and or gear are worn. These reading are recommended for setting new bearings and or gears as per manufacture specs. They want you to use very expensive tools. This procedure will save you money but take a little more time. Thanks for watching and commenting. I hope you subscribed.
Love the shirt
Thanks for watching and subscribing. Hope you subscribed.
⭕️👍thank you for this information good sir
Thanks for watching a commenting. Glad it was he;pful. Hope you subscribed.
12:10 weird flex but ok, don’t have to come at me personally like that… 😂
LOL I was talking about 8" Mitutoyo Vernier Caliper. Maybe next video I will have to get out the 12" Starrett, or would that be "Stare At It " You made me laugh. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you subscribed.
Thanks good information and no music
Glad you liked it
On many GM rears, especially 12 bolts and possibly other makes of rears, you can often using a Dana type shim under the bearing cup in the housing, rather than pulling the pinion bearing. On a 12 bolt Chevy, usually more gear requires a thicker pinion gear shim. If you start with the original thickness and end up needing more shim, you can knock loose the bearing cup from the housing and add a Dana style shin and avoid pulling the pinion gear bearing.
Yes you can if it is available. But remember if the next guy doesn't understand why you did it he will likely say it was done wrong, as per service manual.
@@acmemachining The Dana 60 shim will fit the 12 bolt Chevy and others. Hopefully the next guy changes bearings when he changes gears, so he should run into the shim behind the bearing cup. :)
Thank you for the video. Question- you have nominal (3.125) listed on the diagram at the beginning. However your measurement Is less. So is mine. Where did you get that nominal measurement?
That diagram was not for this differential, it just shows the measurement and where they are being taken. Looking at that diagram with a mounting distance of 5.? inches that differential would be almost a 10" ring gear and most of todays diffs are about 8.25" unless 3/4 ton truck or larger. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you subscribed.
Got it. Would have helped to have shown the figures and the math. Great setup for spreadsheet. Just watched another video that used a $500 tool. I like your better.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the helpful tip. I will try to use white-board for videos like this.
That stem at your left hand is the part that you use to measure that depth
You can use either end of a caliper to measure depth, the thin probe on the skinny end, or between the end surfaces of to jaw head. Take a look the the big end and you will notice both jaws are flush at zero and can be used to measure depth. This end give you and more square surface to get accurite readings. If that end is too large to fit, turn it around and use the skinny end. Took years before I seen them used this way, and it is some much easier if you have the room. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
Does this same process work on a Ford 8 inch on 69 Mustang?
Good question. The older ford differentials come out the front and don't have a rear cover. So you have to make/ buy an axle bar that fits in the side bearing holders to measure the pinion depth. Same princible but that axle bar would be a spacific tool. Must of these older diffs you would have multible front carriers with different gear ratios and just change complete front carrier. You could have one for highway driving and one for race weekend. Thanks for watching and commenting and subcribing.
When I use this information to try to gauge my pinion depth, I'm getting some strange numbers. Based on what I've measured and calculated, I should be using 0.158 of shims. Does that seem unusual? That's the factory shim, plus nearly every shim that came in the kit I got. If I install that many shims, I can't get any backlash at all. So obviously I'm doing something wrong. I just don't know what. My pinion has the number 092 written on it. The ring has a D22092 on it. I'm assuming my mounting depth then is 5.092? The pinion is 1.99 without a shim, the center of my axle is 2.44 from the surface of my diff housing. Thanks
What was the original measurement of pinion before removing and do you have the right spec for pinion depth? Most pinion shims are under 0.035". If you can't get spec for your diff's pinion start with factor shim and check contact pattern with marking paint. If you have measurement from original pinion you can select shim through calculating difference. Some manufactures done give pinion depth spec, they just give what you should be measure with their special tools. I hope this helps. Do force anything and repeat until contact pattern is correct.
@@acmemachiningthanks for replying. I'm not sure on the depth of the original pinion , but I got the bearing off in one piece and honed it out until it slip fits. Should the check distance of the old pinion be the same as the new? That would simplify the problem.
I hope it works out for you. The best things about challenges is you make you so much better for working through them. Hope you subscribed. Thanks for watching & commenting.
Instead of using the cover face, which isn't machined with the same tool, i use the bearing cap surfaces, which are the actual center of axle rotation.
The bearings cap surfaces are not always centerline. They are align bored just like engine main bearings. Most are perfect but some are off and that would ruin the job. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Many pinions are not machined on the face you were referencing so it is dangerous to measure from there. If you are putting back the same parts no gears no problem but if there is a change you could wind up with it incorrect.
There is always something to screw up a good plan. I have used ball bearing in center pilot if available to still get mounting distance, but sometimes you do get ones you can't measure. Thanks for watching and commenting.
😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😊
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I need some information about gear petrron
Lots of videos available on gear patterns. Unfortunately I do have a video or a diff to make a video at this time. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you check out my other videos & subscribe.
That's all fine and dandy how your doing that but the pinion depth is pretty critical and all those measurements your taking off of different surface's your liable to be off a few thousands. Also if the rear-end has been worked on before who knows if it was set up right to begin with. That rear-end did not come out of a ram 1500. It's a Dana 60. They never installed them on a 1/2 ton ram. 3.125 is the pinion depth on a 60. Just get the right tools for the job instead of cobbling something together. Setting up axle gears right is pretty important if you want them to last. Especially if you using it to off road or pulling.
Title of video is about using simple tools, not how to spend a thousand dollars on tools to save 5 hours labor. This diff came out of a 2012 Ram 1500 VIN 1C6RD7GT8CS118883 customer still has the truck. Diff is also too small for any severe off roading or pulling. Final check for any diff work is pattern checking, so if my method got a totally previously messed up differential to within a few thousands on the first try, to be corrected after checking pattern with gear paint, good job.
Yes indeed babe . Life is a marathon, not a sprint . That’s old school there !
Thanks for watching and commenting. Glad you enjoyed it.
#Roger
Thanks
Correction pinion shaft in the freezer!!!
Just remember this will only work if you are replacing that ring and pinion with the exact same gear ratio ring and pinion. If you're changing to like a 456 gear you need to know pinion depth from the gear manufacturer
Gear manufacture usually will give you pinion depth for their gear set. Then you can calculate required shim with these measurements. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
Even then, i still would still be marking gears and checking backlash rather than go of basically an arbitrary measurement.
You always have to check/ set backlash and check pattern. These mearsurements are so you done have to pull pinion back out (most of the times). Thanks for watching and commenting, hope you subcribed.
Wrong, Pinion depth is calculated from the ring gear diameter not from the gear ratio. You do not change your depth by gear ratio. Beside what is scribed on the back of the pinion is to give you an idea of what size of shims to start out with. Diff cases are not all machined exactly the same.
I feel like your Making a little extra work for yourself in calculations. Lay bar across, measure down to bearing cap mounting surface. Zero your caliper and directly measure pinion depth. I've had great success doing it this way for years.
You are assuming bearing cap mounting surface is centerline of bearing. That may not be correct and that assumption can be costly. I perfer a little extra work rather than a redo. Thanks for watching and commenting.
You don't need the tool for the dana 70 95 dodge 2500 8.0
Thanks for watching and commenting. Some diffs are easier than others and require less tools. Hope you subscribed.
A lot of these measurments are set in manufacture, why complicate this task. the only size needed is the depth to the pinion. Why not use the vernier with the depth guage, instead of the jaws?
Thanks for watching and commenting. You can use either end of your vernier. I have had customers bring ring and pinion issues for repair after someone got it wrong. This is how I get back on the right track without removing pinion many times. Manufactures have specs & procedures that require thousand of dollar worth of special tools that may only work on one make and model. I shared this just to show that you can do it with a good pair of vernier calipers. Thanks again, I hope you will subscribe.
Hello sir how are you
Good Thank You
way too much struggle pulling the ring gear assy. all he had to do was reach around and rotate the pinion..
It alot easier when it is attached to a vehicle. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed
Borrow or rent a pinion depth gauge setup, you you will get a first time proper measurement. Use this method if you can send yourself back in time with a time machine ( preferably model- T auto years ).
Why don't you just pay somebody to do it for you. But that not the subject of this video is it? Don't disrespect the model T's some of them are still on the road, and people who learn how to use simple tools can still work on them. Maybe you could do a video on how to rent and borrow things.
Way to much math and confusing. Backlash and patterning is all you need.
Thanks for watching and commenting. 90% of the time you can just change parts and get away with nothing more, but when it does not work that way you better know the math or have really deep pockets. Diff parts are not cheap so I always take the time to measure. That way it is done right the first time.
HOW DO YOU GET THE RIGHT TOOTH PATTERN BY KNOWING THE PINION DEPTH AND WHAT SIZE SHIM TO ADD OR SUBTRACT NEED TO MEASURE AND DO THE MATH IF NOT REAREND WILL MAKE NOISE OR EVEN WEAROUT BADLY AND BREAK AND CORRECT PINION BEARING PRELOAD CARRIERBEARING PRELOAD ALL IMPORTANT IF TO TIGHT BURNBEARING TO LOOSE WEAR OUT NOISEY AND DAMAGE. ITS NOT FOR EVERY ONE AND ITS NOT EASY YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHY AND HOW HOPE THAT HELPS TAKECARE
Rear diffs can be fun if you keep track of what you are doing. The fun goes away when you check you pattern with gear paint and find out you need to take the pinion back out, which can cost you for new bearing, crush spacer and possible nut. That why I like to measure them as they come apart. Sometimes a customer will show up with rear diff in a basket (aka Basket case) and ask "can you fix it?" Then you need to start with some base line numbers and measurements to do it right. Not all jobs are easy. Thanks for commenting and watching. There are many pinion shim charts on google that help you understand pinion markings. I always torque for rotating preload inch-lbs and not the ft-lbs spec listed in manual. Hope this helps - goodluck with your projects.
Way too much math.measure from bearing centerline to face of pinion gear, that's the pinion depth. Bearing centerline is the flat surface where the bearing cap mounts.
Not all bearing caps are at bearing centerline, caps are torqued in place before line boring for side bearing cups. Measurement have to be made while pinion bearings are torqued to specified preload. Usually pinion nut has over 200lb-ft of torque before turning resistance is 20 - 30 lb-in, so you can't just measure to the bearing surface. That would be too easy. Thanks for watching and your comment, they help people understand why. Also some replacement gear sets will have checking distance etched on the end of the pinion and this is why we need to know this measurement. Thanks again!
@@acmemachining so you now I'm a 62 yrs old fossil. Been setting tears up for awhile now. The actual tool for doing this measurement has half moon adapter's that seat in rear housing where side bearing seat. Never have seen axle center line not be same as center line of side bearing cap split. Would have see that. Maybe show in future vidios. Thank you , Scotty S&EAuto
You are using the correct tool and finding centerline to be same as most bearing cap split. That is good to know. I hate to assume that all will be always the same. I respect your experience and your comments. You know the importance of having these measurements. I just wanted to show how to get them without special measuring set-ups. Thanks
@@acmemachining Thanks for video. Always more than one way to skin a cat. Have a good day and thanks for feedback.