Setting pinion depth starting point

Please be careful be do not pick up this young man's horrible habits of like beating on your sockets and extensions and using small shims and you know on the carrier I understand moving smaller shim from one side to the other but you can still respect the pack if that's what's necessary I have the ability to measure the distance the carrier goes in and add about 6000 which if everything is centralized the where it needs to be to the pinion $6,000 is about a good press to go out to load that carrier in much less than it may actually be too loose that I'm not certain of that is what my experience has taught me be careful watch your bad work habits try to always be the very best you can be you should see your ability and your pride and craftsmanship and everything that you do if you do not you really probably need to do something else have a wonderful day.

In the example in this video both pinions were etched with a "0". Using the pinion etch doesn't always get you to where you need to be. The assumption you're making is that the housing was machined perfectly from 0 OR an assumption made that the pinion etches are always correct/close enough. The etch is a great starting point, I agree, but there's due diligence needed. This example is why... there was a .010" difference in the "0" etches. You're what I would call a "sharpshooter". Someone that must find a fault in an otherwise known good process. It's alright though. I appreciate the input because you're not wrong. It's just going above and beyond for due diligence. Kind of like checking the gap on "pre-gapped" plugs... still gotta check it.

For tighter tolerance bearings that’s a good idea. Some bearings even require the use of liquid nitrogen for install, but diff bearings don’t need all of that. Just hammer them in. Nothing special.

@@chevymitchell cool thanks subscribed .

The pinion etch is great for comparing the two pinions, but those numbers (hundredths of a millimeter) are based on the error from the housing. This is good if you’re starting from scratch. If you already have a known good configuration, then you can just measure the difference between the two and it works very well. Appreciate the reply.

Larry, Thanks for the questions. If you do not have old shim to start with and you do not have all of the centering/pinion depth tools and jig, you can start with the most commonly used factory shim, which is .040-045" and just adjust from there. You can get the dimension from the center of the carrier to the pinion head bearing race from Dana themselves if you really need it. The specs for the axle outside of that dimension are on the JL Forum or you can get it under the "literature" tab on Dana's website. Here's a link to try: www.danaaftermarket.com/spicer-automotive/automotive-axle/differential-ring-and-pinion/part/10051004-differential-ring-and-pinion---dana-44-advantek-front-5.13-ratio/10051004?catalog=PIMS_NA&partType=PART I haven't needed the pinion depth from the center of the carrier yet. I've always started with what came out plus/minus the pinion etch or measure on a table. It gets you super close, which is all you're going for on the first installation. The majority of the time you can get it spot on the first or second time doing this. Start with .040" and go from there if you're starting from scratch.

@@chevymitchell I've been told so many times that there is a pinion depth dimension etched on the end of the pinion. Not there. Also some of the Chrysler pinions (8 1/4 & 9 1/4) the end of the pinion is not even machined let alone marked with a dimension. I'll give the this link and see if there is anything that will help. Knowledge of basic machine shop practices tells me that the gear hob set up has to be done off of some known surface such as the shoulder of the pinion (where the pinion rests against the bearing inner race). The gear machining has to be relative to that surface so either the gear is finish cut using the shoulder as a reference point or the shoulder has to be cut relative to the position of the gear. Using the end of the pinion as a reference makes no sense. Anyway I'll try that link. I have devised a way to measure from the bearing shoulder to the center of the carrier bearing, measuring is no problem but I need a starting point.

@@chevymitchell I tried that link & they have a lot of dimensions on the 40 but nothing on the Dana 60 that I'm working on. Tried that JL forum & it is mostly Jeep stuff, I'm working on a Dana 60 out of a 1 ton Dodge van. I tried doing a web search on Dana & all I could come up with were sites that sell parts. How do I get to the official web site?

@@larryhutchens7593 Sorry, Larry, I made the assumption that you were working on a Jeep since the only place I've posted links to these videos is on that forum. You will have to check out the literature section on Dana's website. If you can't find what you need, then call Dana Support. They're actually really good about emailing and sending spec sheets. try this link: media.spicerparts.com/media

@@chevymitchell Can't find much on their media sheets, it is mostly general rebuild info with nothing on specific dimensions. The dimension I am looking for is probably on the machining blueprint & is a closely held secret. I might try Dana support if you have the number. Until I have nothing else to go on I'm going to try the 5" dimension that I got from another video. It is only word of mouth, nothing other than that. Sorry about bothering you on this, I just saw a pinion setup on a Dana & thought you might have some input. This is probably the only one I will ever work on, too labor intensive & crude. That spreading the case thing is super iffy. What you end up with is a shim space that is tapered, wider near the back than at the front. Some sort of threaded adjustment would be the wiser option.

Hey there. Which GM diff are you working on? I wouldn't look at the pattern without the backlash being set. It'll give false readings and make you chase your tail. If you measure both pinions and get the difference, see how close that is to what you're trying. Yukon gears usually set up pretty nice. You'll get this worked out, I think.

@@chevymitchell Thanks for the reply! I'm working on a GM 8.5" 10 bolt. I can 100% say it's not the Yukon gears. I misspoke the pattern I have is concentrated by the toe not the heel. In the Eaton book on next to last page are illustrations for contact pattern and the picture that looks closest to what I have is called Competition Contact or Toe Contact. It says to "move the ring gear away from the pinion (increase backlash) while maintaining minimum backlash." As I mentioned, I put a .048 shim in but I did not open the backlash back up just too tired after 10 tries at it 😓I will do this today. Thanks Again!!

@@chevymitchell Hi Shawn, Your method worked Buddy. My original pinion shim was .038 from the factory. Based on this method I needed to use a .040 shim. Measured 3 times each and took the average. Then I went for it. Heated the bearing to 275 degrees for 10 min. and installed with shim. The new Timken bearing dropped easily onto the pinion then put it in a press with a little pressure to cool. Installed and set the pinion drag with the crush sleeve (that was not fun) and went over the target a little. Top end is 19in/lbs. and I hit 22in/lbs. I'm leaving it!! Hopefully the bearings won't burn up. Installed the Eaton and shimmed to get .007" backlash. The pattern is really good! Thanks!!

@@Danno74Z Very cool! I'm glad it worked out for you! Thanks for the feedback. I'd definitely leave it. That 3 in/lb difference won't be enough to cause any heat issues.

This works for every change in ratio. The principle is the same.

Starrett.

@@chevymitchell does a guy have to buy that one to be true to a measurement? Or where can I find one for less than a hundred lol

@@michael70h7 You can buy any dial indicator as long as it's in .001" increments.

I'll certainly help if I can. What would you like to know?

@@chevymitchell Well first off I’m working on a 2018 jeep wrangler JL with stick gears but I’m running 38’s now so I would like to change to 5.13 gears I have worked in many vehicles in the past I even had my ASE cert’s I’ve changed seals in the axles removed the yoke to replace seals and even replaced bearings and the race but never ever done gears so the whole thing about messing with these spacers or shims gets me a bit scared to tell you the truth so that the back splash (I think that’s what it’s called) it’s set correctly, heck I wish you were local that way you could use mine for one of your videos lol

Lol. It's not as scary as it looks. You may just have to play around with the shims for a while and your arm will get tired. Lol. ..BUT you can do this. The backlash shouldn't be measured until the pinion torque to rotate figure is correct. I shoot for 20 in/lbs or so. You can go as low as 18, but not more than 25 before break-in.

In nearly every situation like this, I have gotten a new gear set. I haven't had it happen to me with Yukon though. With that said, I have taken the pinion to a machine shop and had them cut down the pinion so you have room for shim. I would just get another gear set and go from there. I have always said dana parts for dana axles, but Yukon is the only other MFG I'll install since they give me the least amount of problems. Hope this helps somehow.

thanks for getting back to me. so. the pinion is too long. correct? that's what i have been saying all along and yukon says no. (they sell hundreds a day with tons of shops in stallig gears with no problems)it does but yukon is getting really bad not. they do not have the circle k signature. revolution is the new kid on the block per say and way better than yukon. yukon now outsources to the cheapest factory and you never know what you are going to get now. many people are stopping using them because the pattern and backlash are even way out of wack. @@chevymitchell

yukon told me the pinion is supposed to be taller than stock do to the cut of the gears and making more contact because of the smaller pinion. I am way past factory height even with no shim. with no shim i cannot even get my pinion torque past 10inch pounds because the nut bottoms out@@chevymitchell

Sometimes you can. Most of the time there some machining differences, especially if you’re using different mfgs’ gear sets.

Yeah. The Gen III Dana 44 changed the shim location to behind the race. The Gen III Dana 30 still puts the shim on the head of the pinion.

The only time I would concern myself with bearing wear is if the gearset had higher mileage. 50k or more. Even then, you’re in the .0001” range of wear. Compounded over 2 bearings, you’re still under .001”. It’s a negligible measurement when the idea is to get you close enough to only make small adjustments.

@@chevymitchell so what I did was I took my caliper and I measured from the shack to the top of the pinion bearing cone that’s pressed on. I measured and matched the height with new bearings and shims, (including matching the old shim under the bearing) and it wound up on the first try! also, I don’t trust using a random target on the bench as a reference point because it’s more difficult to make sure that everything is straight and in alignment to be accurate for the second measurement. If you’re measuring directly on the pinion itself like I said, you will be much more accurate. Cheers!

Shim pack*and I meant to say it was successful on the first try*

The target on the plate doesn't need to be exact. You're still talking in the 10 thousandths of an inch. For this process, that resolution is too small to worry about. The idea is to get within .005" with the pattern. Most of these MFG's use hundredth's of a mm, anyway. The 0, +/- X on the side of the Dana pinions are in hundreth's of a mm. What you're doing sounds like a great way to do it. Cheers. @@nickray7215

This process isn't meant to be absolutely perfect. It's a very quick and easy way to get you within .005-.010" of center based on a known good pinion shim stack coming out. I appreciate your comment, but a comment to just tell me it isn't accurate doesn't help anyone. I've been using this process for 15 years or so. It has never let me down. If you have something that is more accurate outside of using a pinion depth gauge, then by all means, make your own video. I'd be happy to watch it.