Raikkonen vs Hamilton - 2008 Belgian Grand Prix

There wouldn't be either anyway...

You're new to F1 aren't you?

I’m referring to the fact that red flags are much more common in 2023 than in 2008

@@benthewheel30 dead ass comment that casual fans love to throw out when there is a spot of rain. ReD fLaG

Facts, I disagree with the hate that Crofty gets, I really like him but I love James Allen and James and Martin had such good chemistry together

@@drfredostein4410 crofty is better than zigo

I was thinking the opposite, I'd love to have heard Crofty's commentary on this race

@@mt2oo8 he did do 5 Live commentary at the time so he did technically

Croft completely ruins it for me, I to use the 'mute' button most of the time. Much better suited to darts.

😂

Cuz your favorite driver isnt winning anymore? XD since last 10 years u mean?

@@yubakadi217 🧢

Exactly just yellow flag in the section of the accident, keep racing, safe and simple with no overreaction, today would've been a full SC at least

No it wouldn't...

@@judge81 No...today would've been the same...

@@jimmoynahan9910 no chance, I dont think you believe that yourself

Fuji 2008!! Massa kick Hamilton

Unfair penalty different than allowing a race result to stand knowing it was the result of cheating. Cheating and iffy penalty completely different universe.

😂 Part of me hopes this happens only to see Massa cry again for losing the same title a 2nd time.

@@BlueSkyCrystals hahahaha hysterical

@@BlueSkyCrystals vill never happen though as they do not want to give Hamilton any chance of taking Abu Dhabi 2021. which both CAS and FIA have admitted that what happened was not right. which is also why Masi lost his job etc

Why do people say 100 bc of this race?

@@damiano1857 Cause Hamilton received a 25 seconds penalty for cutting the chicane and overtaking raikkonen, the fact is that he was pushed off

@@sz6498 it doesn't matter if they touched, that was a racing incident, but he can't overtake with all 4 wheels of the track.

@@cinegraphics Yes, but Hamilton also gave the place back to Kimi. He just had so much extra pace at the time that he could immediately just go fo another move into La Source

@@xxexterm1nat0rxx44 He definitely didn’t give the position back. Kimi had a better exit on the cleaner part of the track and after passing Lewis, Lewis immediately overtook him. That’s just not allowed…

absolutley❤

Hamilton ran Verstappen of the road on turn 27 And hé only got a audible warning from masi And bottas was on purposly holding Verstappen back when the safety car came out. In fp2-3 hamilton ignored yellow flags agian only a warning. Silverstone hé almost killer Verstappen only 10 second penalty . Nooo they really dont favor Mercedes . Joker

@@ThaDutchDK1989 he gets his mentality from his Criminal dad who likes to assault people

@@ThaDutchDK1989 Multiple issues with your reply. 1. The yellow flag in FP3 was a malfunction with the light - it should not have gone on, and it was only for a second. 2. The Silverstone point is moot because Verstappen drove on top of Hamilton's car in Monza. 3. Lewis pushed Max wide in Turn 27 because Max made a half-assed attempt to let him through 2 laps earlier and immediately re-passed. 4. Max cut Turn 1/2 for a lasting advantage and unsafe return not only once, but twice during the race.

@@ThaDutchDK1989 they established you can now run people wide in Brazil, at least Hamilton kept it between the lines. It amazes me people can watch that race and think Hamilton is the dirty driver.

@@brazzlerazzle3834 i mean as redbull said its about let them race in brazil when max ran him wide

Agreed. Deserved at least one win. Drives like 2007 Bahrain, 2007 Canada, 2007 Hungary and 2008 Britain are all examples of his brilliance.

Nick used to be McLaren next driver for 2002 Kimi, his teammate in Sauber 2001, crossed him for the seat. His seat in BMW Sauber was good in 2006 until Kubica suddenly arrived in Hungary... Really unlucky, good driver but missed what it takes to be a world championship contender because he struggled against his teammates (Raikkonen, Massa, Kubica). If you want to win, first beat your teammate and show your guts. He didn't...

​@@Ahito1984 he actually beat Kubica in 07 and 09. Kubica only beat him in 08 but people never notice that.

@@Mohagnito94back then dnfs played a huge part in this points calculation. On track actions made PR, no social media lol

If Mansell hadn't got that puncture... If Hill had seen Schumacher hit the wall... If Fernando had got past Petrov... We miss Murray Walker.

These days they would have red flagged because of Kimi's crash. Imagine a race where they just left a stranded car out there today!

Those were grooved, not slicks but I think you mean the dry ones

the FIA just loves deciding race results after the end of the race

Remember Turkey 2021 when Hamilton did the same on Perez? Or US 2015 on Rosberg?

I believe 25 seconds was the smallest penalty available to stewards at the time, so that’s what they gave. The FIA later admitted he did not deserve any penalty.

@@vladaltreilea1431It happens almost everywhere with a chicane LOL All drivers are guilty of it.

@@BlueSkyCrystals but Hamilton did it too many times … but wtf

Yeah watching the final lap overtake past his sideways facing car was pretty crazy

VSC Probably, depending on where the cars are

@@AUTvillacherboyAUT VSC doesn’t even exist. It was implemented in 2015

unless there is michael masi

masi one of us, legend

I was at the track (Pouhon corner) surrounded by Kimi and Ferrari fans. If you think the emotions was rollercoaster on tv… Some of us could see the clouds coming in and as soon as it started to drizzle, the Ferrari fans just knew what was coming next. Without the rain Hamilton would have lost (the stolen win) by about 10-12 seconds. That Ferrari was a monster

The FIA clearly said after the race you have to yield for a few corners before attempting to regain a position- 13 years later people including Max think it’s fine to let a driver past then try to overtake again straight away

@@Keenangoal Well if he didnt try he would have lost for sure. Every champion driver would have tried this. Hamilton would do it again as well.

@@Keenangoal In the next lap he allowed Hamilton to go through again and Hamilton pushed him out of the track #Blessed #KneeOnTheGround #SavingTheWorld

@@Keenangoal I rembered this race after Verstapen overtook Hamiltom imediatly after leting him pass, i knew that Hamilton received a penatly for doing this to Kimi, wondered if the rule is still in efect or not.

@@blleki well giving the place back means you can’t use DRS or the slip stream to retake it back again straight away. That’s why he was told to give it back a 2nd time. The irony is Hamilton got a 25 second penalty for the offence on Kimi who eventually crashed out anyway - whereas Max gets 10 seconds for effectively trying to seal the WDC by foul play

Martin brundle

@@mark4lev Who's the other one? It's not Brundle.

@@TTisIH James Allen and Martin brundle did the main commentary for itv. Occasionally you can hear a guy called ted kravitz reporting from the pit lane maybe that’s who you mean

James Allen. When F1 use to be on ITV and use to cut for Ad brakes every 30 mins 😆

Me.

Also Massa should have been penalized at Fuji and Valencia

@@Spyker8921 He was penalised in Fuji 2008

Nono ham pushed Rai!!!!! Ham playing dirty as usual!!!! SO shut up!!!!!

@@erminiopreziosi1967 lol. Behave yourself

@@erminiopreziosi1967he pushed kimi?? Kiki pushed him off by braking too late and locking up even though Lewis was ahead he forced him off. Lewis gave back the position but it was clear that he was so much faster so he could just take it back because he had better grip or at least more confidence

Now is MaFIA Mercedes Authorized Fan IA

@@mataloce Yeah, you're showing that fans became less creative and incredibly retarded.

@@MysteryOfMovies I smell #Blessed behind your nonsense

@@mataloce Mercedes Authorised Fan In Authority

@@mataloce I smell a football fan that has started watching F1 after DTS season 2 and doesn't know what's happening on-track so decides to copy-paste retarded comments all over social media.

Let down by a shoddy post race penalty

It made him tough, yes very tough however look at Lewis since then, he is going along nicely and can go drive for any worthy racing consortium.

Penalty was harsh intentionally to put distance between him and Massa and tighten up the title race. If you consider how close LH and FM were at the end of the penultimate lap and then see how long it is before Massa crosses the finish line, you see what a great job Hamilton does in wet conditions.

There was no such thing as a 5 second penalty back then, it was like 20-25 seconds minimum I think. That's why Schumacher got what seemed like a harsh 20 seconds penalty for overtaking Alonso at Rascasse in Monaco 2010, but that was the minimum time penalty they could give him.

@@Beechaii2 No there was 10 second penalties. Schumacher got a 20 second penalty because salty damon hill was among the stewards.

@@silentnight1805 When was a 10 sec time penalty issued back then, do you have any examples? I can't recall any

Same.

Me

I am.

It was only shit when it was slightly wet on dry tires

@@tobiast471 lol Silverstone? xD They were definitely on wets in Silverstone and the car was so bad it made both drivers look like beginners :D

@@FluppiLP People usually make fun of lewis and calls him ferrari's last drivers champion cuz of spy gate. maybe the driver really makes all the difference. heikki kovalainen in the mclaren was spinning like a top even at silverstone. same car.

@@FluppiLP hamilton wet weather driving ability isn't a joke.

The Ferrari drivers were awful in the wet

A natural what? Wuss? Crybaby?

The rule is clear: "If the pilot out, can't take advantage". Hamilton give the position, but he was taking a vacuum, he out and take advantage. Penalty is clear.

@@MultiLeonardo360 I think what you're saying is even though Hamilton gave the position back, he still gained an advantage by immediately slipstreaming Raikkonen. Well I'm not convinced thats an advantage gained because there was no gap between them when Hamilton had to cut the corner to avoid the collision. Also, look at the footage again, how long is Hamilton in Raikonen's slipstream for exactly? It's a small fraction of a second, because Raikonen weaves out of the way. There was no way Raikonen was going to keep that position despite all his efforts. You also have to consider that the 25 second penalty was applied after the race. So the stewards knew that the driver who arguably lost out (Raikonen) didn't even finish the race through his own error. So applying that penalty only benefits Masa and Heidfeld who had absolutely nothing to do with the incident. Terrible decision, and completely not justified.

The rule was that if you overtake another car by cutting a corner, you’re to hand the position back. Hamilton did that. F1 then ruled that he got the advantage anyway, which is true, but irrelevant as he had complied with the rules that were in place. Only after this race they changed the rule book stating that after giving back the position you’ll have to wait another corner until you can overtake again. Penalty for LH was extremely unjustified.

Totally agree. They had to rewrite the rule book after that. And again when LH got into trouble trying to break the tow that he was giving to Petrov in Malesia(?).

@@Matkins85 No man, Hamilton would never overtake Kimi if he hadn't cut the corner. In that race, none car overtook another at that point. Was an advantage gained by Hamilton when he cut the corner.

Hamilton can only blame himself for this, he never gave back the advantage he gained and he never would have been in a position to overtake Kimi on the start-finish straight if he didn't cut the chicane.

raikkonen is the driver with the record of longest time between first and last won gp, he is not only one of the greatest drivers on f1 history but also better than hamilton, by a mile.

​@KCrucis Kimi won a title by chance, from then on he was run over by Hamilton and Vettel. Lotus had to forbid Grosjean to won over him. Against Vettel he won 1 race in 4 seasons while Vettel won 15 races. He was beat by Massa as team mates in 2008.

@@rotorairgroup8409 a yes, by chance, no wonder hamilton has 7 cups then

@KCrucis And no wonder that Kimi didn't won any other

Actually Hamilton didn't comply with the rules, if you want an example watch sazuka 2005, Alonso did the exact same thing going past Klien, A few laps later he had to slow so much to let Klien back through properly that those watching thought he was out of the race

he gained an advantage off the track, as if he had remained on it, he would not have been able to overtake kimi then

The most ridiculous part is that Kimi crashed after it, no sense at all

@@daniellinanmolina1044 Remember, Lewis was forced off the circuit, he didn't actively choose to cut the chicane. He immediately relinquished that advantage gained and allowed Kimi to overtake him - the data showed that as they crossed the line, Lewis was travelling slower than his competitor. What was the issue was that there was an 'unwritten rule' that you should wait until the next corner to try again, but how can you enforce a rule which doesn't exist? Simple, you make it up after the race has finished and slap a penalty which couldn't be taken.

That penalty was the reason I stopped watching F1.. Never watched any F1 race after that.

Verstappen is fantastic but I can’t respect him because of how little he respects other drivers, shown by his choice of driving style. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in his early years because he was a kid, but he still pushes people wide, divebombs, and complains like a baby. A crazy amount of pace and talent ruined by an idiotic personality.

​@@willjackson6522totalement d'accord avec toi en tant que fan de lewis je peux pas nier que verstapen est un excellent pilote mais je ne peux pas le respecter en sachant qu'il ne respecte pas les autres pilotes surtout son coequipier Perez et pareil avec son style de pilotage comme vous l'avez dit un talent gaché par une personnalité stupide

Mate he pushes people off every chance he gets

@@Willie_Pete_Was_Here why do you feel the need to tell me how he drives? i have watch his every race in f1 and he is the cleanest of them all. we will not see another as good in our lifetime.

@@lpiavelino6598you are biased as fuck then, your frontal wheel needs to be at the center of the other car for it to be considered a fight for position, hamilton rams everybody despite his front wing being at the others rear wheel, he has been a cheat since 2006 go get your eyes checked

This is V8.

@@sonicxdudex765 why do people like the old engines so much lol.I’m new to F1 so my opinion doesn’t really count but I don’t mind the new v6 engines.

The cars were more fun to watch. They “looked” faster because they were smaller.

@@AJzilllaProthe sound of those engines were just incredible. I used to frequent Spa and it didn’t matter where you were at the circuit, that noise would reverberate around the whole track and then when they got closer to where you were the screaming noise would have an almost visceral effect on just about every molecule in your body. And that’s without mentioning the Honda engines in Jensen and Rubens car which made you literally vibrate as they went past.

@@gregrowe1168the cars today look lazy and low energy in comparison

Had Hamilton not cut the chicane he would have been nowhere near to be able to overtake Kimi on the main straight, yet that is where he overtook him. Massive advantage gained by cutting the chicane, Hamilton can only blame himself for the time penalty. A smarter driver would have waited and overtake after the first corner.

And verstappen gave him again the position in the next lap... what is your point?

@@mataloce and he still got the penalty

@@avinash_8723 Not to mention that Hamilton pushed him off track in that lap...

@@mataloce well i think he was just showing his frustration and it didnt matter anyway max had to give it anyways

@@avinash_8723 yeah but is funny that ppl are comparing this action with verstappen’s on this one hamilton didn’t give the position back… on the other one verstappen gave the position back in the next lap…

And Massa almost went on to win the championship as a result of this gifted win.

@Euclides287 and probably he could have won still easily without the engine failure in Hungary, and the crashgate in Singapore.

@@FFmybest He made tons of mistakes. Didn't deserve it.

@@FFmybest Mechanical failures are part of motorsport. No one's outraged when a driver loses a championship due to poor reliability. Races/championships decided by dodgy desicions made by people sat in the race control room is what transforms the sport into a farce. Senna and Hamilton were sadly victims of that in 1989 and 2021. As for crashgate, it wasn't the first first time a driver crashed on purpose; Nelson Piquet was, however, the *first one* to admit it.

@Euclides287 Hamilton only got a slight chance because he was helped during the whole season (like 10 sec penalty for kicking out someone). Yes, Masi fucked up the organisation of the last race, but Hamilton shouldn't have even had a chance. Senna's case was completely different and made no sense, he was disqualified because he "cut" the track, after the collision, despite he lost like a minute, so clearly he didn't gain any advantage. Regarding 2008, I'm not trying to say Massa was better than Hamilton, but without the technical DNFs, it would have been a clear victory for him, and nobody ever would have argued on if he deserved it or not. But I also agree that Hamilton's penalty here didn't make much sense, since there was no rule made for how should you give back the position after going off the track.

It wasn't even Ferraris call

Like McLaren who stole a whole car concept from Ferrari, but they were still unable to win the constructors' two seasons in a row.

@@FFmybest they didn't, only one individual had the documents.

fucked up the car development for kimi too in early season...

What the hell are tou talking about, in 07 Mclaren couldn't handle their drivers and had a serious affair of stolen documents. It's like saying that Vettel won is first title because Renault being engine partnership send Petrov to block Alonso and Webber.

Had Hamilton not cut the chicane he would not have been able to overtake Kimi on the start-finish straight. It's irrelevant that Kimi later crashed out. Hamilton can only blame himself for the time penalty.

Yea the penalty to Hamilton was completely ridiculous. They didn't want the Ferrari drivers to lose.

@@mclarensaleenf7 It was not ridiculous, he cut the freaking corner. Learn F1. Then talk.

@Mo Elm different stewards differents outcomes thats why

@Mo Elm mostly of the times there is a driver in stewards and he has to put himself a driver vision for the 2 guys involved, so yes sometimes there is interpretation and different outcomes

​ @Mo Elm if you think the stewards are robots Yeah there is no interpretation. But whatever you say don't changes the fact that are humans who take this decisions and, yes they will interpret

from 2006 the f1 was extremely rigged in favor of hamilton by pressure of the british press, shit like hamilton being the 5th out of the circuit cause of rain and the crew not only rescuing him, but putting him back on track with him inside, which is illegal.

Wasn't robbed. Are you seriously claiming Hamilton would have been in a position to overtake Kimi on the start-finish straight if he had not cut the chicane? Yet that is where Hamilton overtook because he gained massive advantage by cutting the chicane. He never gave back that advantage and can only blame himself for the penalty incurred.

Schumacher was the one that hit DC

It wasn't about the place, had Hamilton not cut the chicane he would have been nowhere near to overtake Raikkonen on the main straight, which is where he overtook. He gained massively by cutting the chicane and can only blame himself for the time penalty he received. If Hamilton were smart, he would have waited and overtaken Raikkonen later. Hamilton lost the race all by himself.

No.

Having a Mercedes engine doesn't mean you're guaranteed to win a championship. Just look at Schumacher at Mercedes from 2010-2012. Not even a race win.

@@isaacm2374 Because the Mercedes was really bad those years. How many races did Hamilton win last year ? lol

@@Frank-eh4ceMy point is having a Mercedes engine isn't a guarantee to winning a championship. Look at the 3 seasons Schumi had with Mercedes. So the main comment doesn't make sense.

@@isaacm2374 You love sucking Hamilton's ballls lol

😂😂😂😂😂

right but isn't that why he promptly gave the place back? this is a very ambiguous situation but if i recall, there was no rule stating that after giving the place back, you cannot repass until x amount of time/corner(s) or, give the place back and set yourself up for an overtake (slipstream).

The argument massi used was “you don’t see overtakes there” I’d counter that and say that with dry tyres on a wet track you see overtakes in places you’d never see normally.

Raikkonen ran him out of room when they were side by side at the Bus Stop; if KR takes the type of line he did when they were battling at Monza '18, odds are Hamilton's through. LH lost momentum on a straight and Raikkonen got back through, under the rules at that time Hamilton did nothing wrong. Your original instincts were correct.

It wouldn't have been. If Timo pitted, Lewis would just be ahead of him without having to overtake

hamilton was ahead of glock. if glock had pitted, he would have just ended up following hamilton. glock's strategy of staying out actually gave him a few places hence it was the best and quickest strategy. the opposite is true. glock staying out is what would have potentially made massa world champion

What a reach

Are you dim? 😂

25 seconds though?

@@oldschool8330 The regs were vague at the time. No set penaltys for certain offences. Does seem harsh compared to todays 5 second penaltys.

more beautiful without aerodynamic wheel covers and extended engine cover

He's been pissing on Ferrari ever since this.

Hardly revenge, Vettel blocked Hamilton and deserved the penalty.

@@ollieh98 vettel went off track and rejoined unsafely and absolutely deserved the penalty