Why Alonso's Penalty is Bizarre and Inconsistent
2024 ж. 23 Нау.
97 094 Рет қаралды
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But if George never crashes this would have NEVER been a penalty. So why do we say the outcome doesn’t matter when handing out penalties?
It’d of still be investigated but George would’ve got past so there’d of been no point. And that’s the key, Alonso knew he had it lost to George and got desperate.
British bias still exists with the FIA
Russel wouldn’t have crashed if he had been paying attention to the car in front of him.
@@gameofender4463jajajajaja no even investigated, not even noted everyone not stupid enough knows that the outcome was the reason for the penalty. And there's no certainty of rusell overtaking Alonso, Alonso was doing a god job defending, being faster doesn't mean the overtake is assured
@@7overland514 Russell wouldn’t of gone off if Fernando didn’t drive like an amateur.
'Alonso was messing around' - racing. For anyone confused, what Alonso was doing is called 'racing', apparently that's not allowed in F1.
No, in todays F1 they manage the rules for todays pussy drivers, especially if that drivers ars British, they have double protectikn…
Racing hasn't been allowed in F1 for years. Why do you think we have things like DRS?
Pin this comment
Such a bad take. He essentially braked when he was supposed to be going flat out, if he braked once and then was off the throttle and got back on I don't think he would've gotten a penalty but he braked, got back on the throttle and braked again which is something that is pretty rare and a driver of this calibre doesn't just misjudge a breaking point by that much. There's a fine line between racing and dangerous driving
@@vascobrighton480you say this, but the stewards themselves mentioned that the first braking was inconsequential to their resolution. So this argument is inconsistent with the actual penalty.
Facts. If Russell hadn't crashed this would have gone completely unnoticed
If Russell hadn't been there he wouldn't have "brake tested" him. 🤷🏻♀️ (I'm not a GR fan or an FA hater or anything, I'm just saying how it can seem to anyone not in the cockpit.)
@@y_fam_goeglyd kinda hard to brake check someone 6 car lengths behind you. Hard case that George is supposed to be amongst the greatest drivers alive and didn't notice him slowing
@@y_fam_goeglydlemme guess, you think Lewis is at fault for George’s crash in Singapore , don’t you? 😂
@@VHBEngines you do know F1 cars can't carry the same speed through corners unless on the racing line don't you? doesn't your statement of George should of notice it show you just how strange what Alonso did was? I love Alonso for being one of the few drivers that does this, but he usually does it when coming out of a slow corner leading onto a straight, he will delay going onto the throttle causing the car behind to have to either brake or come off the throttle while he speeds off down the straight. The difference he is it can only cause a crash due to the tiny racing line you can make it through there at them speeds. F1 cars change direction due to breaking or throttle use while steering, having your car set up to go around that corner at them speeds means extra braking will cause the car to oversteer, not lose front end grip like this guy claims was the problem, he oversteers and has to correct it causing him to crash.
@y_fam_goeglyd If you think he used the brakes to brake check Russel, you’re wrong. Simply read the stewards’ note on the incident and you’re proven wrong very quickly
FIA said: 1. Alonso has the right to approach the corner the way he decides. 2. Alonso isn't guilty for Russell receiving dirty air. 3. There isn't enough evidence to prove and clarify that Alonso did it on purpose to make Russell crash. 4. "Alonso decided to do something different, with whatever intent, that was extraordinary" Russell in post race interview: "[...] it caught me off guard, it's my fault" The 20 seconds time penalty just shows the unsurprising and incredible inconsistence the these stewards make, ruining an amazing race that is literally an exception in these last 2 seasons, by staining it with their idiotic, irrational and subjetive thinking. And I wonder, if he had problems with the throttle (which he had), and he was saving tyre deg and tyre temperature (which he always does), then, this penalty has been given just because Russell crashed, right? but hey, having a car perpendicularly inmediately after a 5th gear blind corner and not showing the red flag at the very same moment is not a problem. They're just incompetents and should be fired.
You seriously misinterpreted the report. The FIA said: 1. Alonso has the right to approach the corner the way he decides BUT went at it in a way that was erratic and subsequently caused a dangerous situation. 2. Alonso isn't guilty for Russell receiving dirty air BUT shouldn't have been that close to Russell and therefore shouldn't have caused that much dirty air. 3. There isn't enough evidence to prove and clarify that Alonso did it on purpose to make Russell crash BUT even mistakes are penalized and whether alonso did it intentionally or not is irrelevant to how dangerous what he did was. 4. "Alonso decided to do something different, with whatever intent, that was extraordinary." Russell in post-race interview: "[...] it caught me off guard, it's my fault" BECAUSE he had thought he broke to late and got too much oversteer on corner entry and had not known that alonso had actually decided to brake early.
Yeah except the data is there: kzhead.info/sun/fdaSdZdxaISMnac/bejne.html
I disagree with the race being amazing. It’s only “amazing” to some because instead of Max dominating the race this time it was Sainz. If this is your definition of an amazing race, then you can’t in good faith complain when Max wins easily.
Everyone is tired of ANOTHER 30 second Max win. It's simply bad to watch at this point. We want battles for the WIN, not second place at best@@darthmalgus232
@@eternal_trashero Man, you just said on point 2. (I stopped reading there) that Alonso shouldn't had been that close to Russell and therefore shouldn't had given him dirty air. Read it again and think about it for a while.
Finally a commentary that doesn’t try vilify Alonso in a dumb effort to get more clicks with the obligatory clickbait titles.
so its better to be wrong to keep the internet happy, ok then genius child
@@MrTimmsy1986 somehow you have managed to be 100% correct by being 100% wrong. Not sure how you did that! Very impressive! That would be sarcasm just in case you are too blind drunk to get it.
@@7overland514he may be blind drunk or perhaps just really stupid. Looking at his other comments, I think it’s both
But he DID cause the crash
I thought the same, finally a british YT channel I know I can trust to remain impartial. I try to watch as many opinions as possible but the cringe watching some commentaries that tried so hard to justify it...
Considering recent events, the "FIA British Bias" argument is getting stronger.
If by "recent events" you mean the last 64 years.
FIA are French 😂
Chewis got penalised for crossing the track and got penalised Max did the same thing didn't get penalised Max literally brake tested chewis which chewed chewis front wing and yet max got away Chewis safety the car changed and he lost the much talked about max first 🥇 Etcetc
it's not FIA, it's the stewards. they're a different entity. however it was headed by johnny herbet. who is british.
This argument is getting annoying considering Max hasn't been punished for some of his unsavoury behaviour.
Let's be honest, George knew he was braking, but he wanted to get as close as possible to overtake!! It was his last chance. Fernando knew it and reduced speed earlier to exit the curve with greater traction and speed!! It's normal, it shouldn't be punished.
Exactly! All that comments "Alonso knew what he was doing" , yes he did and it had always been legal, for decades! George knew what he was doing also, but he made a mistake.
That curve is a full downforce corner in 5th gear, you maximise your entry speed, the downforce sticks you through and you exit with higher exit speed. If you compare the onboards with telemetry (yelistener), Alonso had 15-10km/h less speed throughout entry, mid corner and exit.
@@ark14700even if he was trying to back him up, so what? Perez wasn’t penalized for driving too slow during his defence against Hamilton a couple years ago to win Verstappen a title. That KMag thing too. If anything was dangerously slow driving, those were it. It’s part of the sport
Im a Mercedes fan but Alonso didn’t deserve a penalty
Rubbish. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re a Hamilton fan first 😂.
@@gameofender4463 Shut it Crashell fanboy. I'm a Max, Sainz and Nando fan and I despise the FIA, Johnny Herbert (Racing Stewert) and you for being ridiculous.
Have a day off, son🤔🤣
@@gameofender4463your the guy that hated on Norris anything changed abt him?
@@gameofender4463 Do you even know how to read clown????? HE IS A MERCEDES FAN, so he could be obviously a Hamilton fan and still thinks Alonso didnt deserve a penalty. Do you need a croquis?
This is a yoke ! A YOKE !
Eso
A joke for sure. And incompetent race stewards.
Alonso's radio messages at McLaren-Honda and Raikkonen's radio messages at Lotus are the most memorable!
George makes a mistake and Fernando gets a penalty while not even touching the car? FIA is a joke.
No,no.. the FIA is a Yoke ;)
I agree that this should‘nt be a penalty but alonso said by himself that he made a mistake after the race
@@inot88j24 yeah, a mistake which George could have used in his advantage instead of crashing out...
@@inot88j24 almost all passes in F1 occur because the driver ahead made a mistake. That only happens though when the trailing driver doesn't manage to bin it (yet again).
@@f1jones544 You cannot pass in that corner, Turns 6 & 7 is a single file high speed chicane. Alonso knew if he slowed down there he'd block the whole road forcing Russell to slow down and waste his momentum going into the back straight (the prime overtaking section). Any driver would expect another driver to go through T6-7 as fast as they can and would be aiming to do likewise, but suddenly Alonso's car was heading towards him at a rate of knots.
Russel lost the rear, not the front end. It was his mistake. All Alonso did was racing...
Thank you
you have no understanding of how any car behaves under braking while steering, he lost the rear because Alonso made him brake. This guy even shows him breaking twice and then claims he did it to gain speed? how does braking more give you more speed?
@@peterjohnson5132 Russel braked at the same point as the previous lap if not slightly latter if you check the telemetry, he lost the car due to the dirty air At no point he was at risk of hiting alonso
@@peterjohnson5132 My guy, watch the video, please, it's made for people like you, and believe it or not I learned a thing or two for over 15 years building and racing cars.
@@peterjohnson5132 OH, look at the future world F1 champion that was hiding in mum basement, we should hear what he say GTFO C L O W N
I agree that George has some responsibility for his crash, regardless of what Alonso was doing. We've seen many times when engines have let go, accidents have happened, tyres have failed and all manner of reasons why a car might suddenly slow or stop... and cars behind do usually manage to avoid the situation unless they are right on top of it. From George's onboard it really does look like he knew it might be his last chance to get by, got a little too fiery and binned it.
Yeah he did it last time he was in a shot for great result "A podium place" and binned it, why that didn't result in Norris getting 20 seconds? he is British? that is the only consistent thing about these rulings nowadays..
Facts
He had no intention to send it there because his best chance was always down the straight on the way into 9. So I don't know what you are talking about.
@@eternal_trashero But he had every intention to be as close to him as possible, before the long flatout part towards turn9. He could have reacted when he saw that alonso is charging his batteries but he didn't, to get as close as possible. IMO very clever from Alonso, miscalculation from Russell
@@eternal_trasheroI never said he was trying to 'send it' at that corner. He was trying to set up the pass in that corner though and that caused him to make the mistake. If he wasn't doing that then I don't think he would have crashed.
Honestly, I’ve never been a fan of allowing parking your car on an apex to prevent your opponent from getting a run in open wheel racing. But it’s literally always been allowed so why penalize it now? FIA being inconsistent yet again.
Yeah...unless you crash someone on purpose physically or weave on straights id allow everything else... especially if you are better and faster you should be able to overtake Magnussen in Saudi and Alonso in Australia,like Hamilton overtook Perez in Abu Dhabi 21
Cause Herbert, was Steward, and he’s been vocal of his hatred for Alonso for a long time.
It's not always been allowed it just generally doesn't draw any attention unless it's highlighted by a big incident.
Because it is at high speed section. And may be you do not know this but racing car drive at limit will need to trottle to rotate the car. Russell lift of the gas to avoid the crash but his car balance is thrown to deacceleration, so his car is thrown in to understeer so he cant make the turn. If Alonso did this after long straight then it is reactionable to avoid, but doing it at high speed section continuing corners are extremely dangerous for car behind. Russell only options are to crash in to Alonso or avoid it and crash himself.
@@thanajiraratana3161 lifting off the gas in a high speed corner does not cause it to understeer. It causes the weight to shift forward, causing the nose to dive and if anything, does the opposite. Source: I race irl.
What I find particularly strange is that it seems like a significant proportion of the penalties handed out to Alonso in particular have been very much edge cases where similar behaviour hasn't been punished when done by other drivers. Why is this? Why do other drivers not get faced with the same level of scrutiny as Alonso does? It's not appropriate.
This and Hungary 2007 +Australia 2010 are one of the bizarre I have seen
FIA : "This was a very dangerous part of the track and Alonso shouldn't have raced that way because it's dangerous, maximum penalty!" Russell : *is parked in the middle of the track, stuck on his side, on this very dangerous part of the track* FIA : "Let's not Red Flag this time... VSC will do... the drivers will all notice the car in the track and drive round it, right?"
It's the last lap, VSC and red flag are basically identical
@@sikesandor mmmm no mate, VSC mean you have a delta and you could still go quick maintaining it, red flag its a no no.
@@sikesandor lol no a VSC would still allow all cars to finish under the checkered flag while a red would mean everyone goes to the pits
There's such thing as double yellows before corner. "Slow down, be ready to stop".
@@sikesandor it was not last lap, but second last. Red flag could lead to same mayhem as last year with 1 lap race. Not defending the decision, just saying.
Johnny Herbert was the Steward this weekend. No surprise with the ruling.
was he?
@@megacup3977 He is
@@megacup3977 he was
Herbert out to punish Alonso because of bad blood between them.
I see clearly now.
For sure the most absurd penalti in recent years. There is absolutely nothing here.
Exactly. What exactly is "Abnormally Slowly"? To me it's just part of racing. This is what good racing is, Russel was just too inexperienced to react. I really can't accept this penalty. They are penalizing something that makes the sport good to watch. Dominant seasons are boring to watch but if they're gonna keep penalizing these moves then there's really no reason to watch f1 now. They might aswell just race in a drag strip if you're not allowed to defend now.
In this case abnormal means he is doing something dramatically different than what he was doing throughout this race. 100m before is massive. Does it constitute a penalty.. I don't know
I agree with your point but I dispute that Russell is inexperienced!! He’s been in F1 for eight years! He’s not inexperienced but he’s obviously a very slow learner 🙄
If u think break testing is part of racing ur stupid
"He's not inexperinced but a slow learner." Brural, but so true 🤣
@@camejuanm Where does that argument even come from? This wasn't any other lap, it was the last lap of the race and he was chased by a faster car. There was a good reason to try something different, and he had the right to do so.
Last year, a Spaniard was given an unfair penalty in Australia. This year, history repeats itself.
How is that Sainz penalty unfair?? Sainz drove into Fernando
frfr@@LiamCameron294
@@LiamCameron294 Bcs that penalty was for "causing a collision" which is only ever given as a penalty, if you gain from it. Sainz, didnt gain from it bcs of the red flags. So he was essentially given a penalty for an incident that he didnt gain from, also drivers tend to get given a "first lap" rule which mitigates any incidents on that lap. Surely that should be given for restarts too, seeing as they're jumping into the cars having been out of them for a while and fighting multiple other cars, and in that instance in a corner that's entrance is wider than the exit, making it incident prone.
@@LiamCameron294because they kicked him out of the points completely for a misjudgment in a lap that didn't even end up counting
Sainz deserved that. Alonso didn’t. No one would have complained about Sainz’s penalty if it weren’t for the circumstances under which it happened and so it cost him so much more than a 5 second penalty normally would.
hamilton directly hits verstappen, causing a heavy crash, 10 secs. alonso slows down while being way ahead of russell, russell looses his car without any contact and the crash being very mild (except that he landed on the track), 20 secs. gotta love the consistency
I'm a Max fan and he also caused collisions in the past. Getting a 10s pennalty for causing a collision and 20s for this, this is so unfair for Fernando.
Maybe because since 2021 penalties have been increased? Because everyone asked for it?
They increased the penalties for the start of 2024. Move on from 2021, it’s not healthy.
@@aleksandergarbo you are right, objectively. So we are wrong, but it still feels wrong.
They don't like Spanish people.
It's not bizarre and inconsistent when you see the team of the "victim" and the nationality of it's driver.
In the 2018 Belgium GP, Hamilton backed off in Eau Rougue/ Radillon which stuffed Vettel's momentum. This allowed Hamilton to not be a sitting duck in the straight and he was able to retain the lead. (Edit) apparently it was 2017
* 2017. The British media mafia would say it's great defending.
@@darrenjohn8524 Said the only Newey car's champion...
That has always been allowed...don't know why they decided to penalise Alonso for that
@@darrenjohn8524 The thing more danger than ISIS itself is British Media.
Yep, check Hamilton's pass port and then Alonso's, and you have the answer.
The RACE posted a video about an hour ago with almost the exact opposite opinion as this. I prefer yours.
the race are a bunch of goons, have you seen some of the driver rating they come up with
The RACE is a bunch of clowns
Cause they hate Alonso. They’ve always hated him. It’s a nest of super hardcore British driver fans and Mercedes fans. I’ve never understood liking drivers just for their nationality. Who cares?
You should see their comments section. Despite a slightly Alonso hostile crowd, 95% of the comments are disagreeing with The Race
@@The_ZeroLine 🤣🤣🤣
It's pretty simple when this is a penalty for the FIA. Here's a little list to ilustrate every possible iteration: You are British --> not a penalty (how dare anyone think it is deserving of a penalty) You are not British --> Only a penalty if the other driver is British Your name is Fernando Alonso --> Penalty for you my friend Let's not forget that they really tried to penalyze Alonso in Austin 22. That is still one of the most ridiculous penalties I've ever seen. Even if it was reverted it is fucking ridiculous it was even considered. I think people should always remember that the british part of the FIA seethes at the name of Alonso, and that the british media has tried to create a huge black legend around him based on a few things that almost all greats have done. Just look at Schumacher's career and tell me he was more sportmanslike than Alonso, same goes for Senna. Even Hamilton has his moments (Example: He very much drove unnecesarily slow back in AD16 and no one even thought it was a problem, but this penalty just set a new standard in my eyes). Alonso's 2021 Hungary defense is one of the dirtiest pieces of driving ever. The way he just slowed down in the middle of the last corner. Man, so dangerous. Good thing Hamilton noticed it and raced accordingly, not like Russell today, poor guy.
Really liked how you brought in previous and recent examples of driving that was worse than Alonso's driving. Really makes it clear that different stewards have really different opinions that create inconsistent penalties, or that they take consequence into action even when claiming they dont...
This is something Alonso has done since around Imola 2005. Difference is, Schumacher didn't usually have brain fade on the last lap in so many races like Russell does. Change his name to Mr. 98%. Seriously, I find little difference between Russell and a Grosjean.
there’s a big difference, grosjean could finish a race
Imagine thinking Grosjean could match Hamilton 26-26 in qualifying
@@Duval-In-The-Wall imagine thinking qualifying matters to consistent race results, which to date neither Russell or Grosjean has ever produced outside of F2/GP2. But hey, looks like you relate since you're in the wall too, like those guys.
@@f1jones544 Russell has never produced consistent race results? Seems you missed 2022
@@Duval-In-The-Wall the exception proves the rule. Grosjean had one decent season around 2011 as well which belied his own Russell-esque dumbassery. Bottom line, other than 2022, and going back to Williams, Russell has rarely met a good race result that he'd prefer over throwing it away on his own.
Clip someone and turn then around - 10second penalty Release the accelerator - 20second penalty. Logic.
Cannot believe Aston aren’t appealing it - it was clever driving from Alonso and Russell didn’t expect it and he made a mistake. Seems like British bias in the stewarding yet again
Rubbish. Fernando bottled it and people are trying to find excuses for it because it’s Fernando and there’s an unconscious bias against George.
@@gameofender4463 your literally hating on Fernando everywhere Russel was the one that bottled it if you been watching f1 for more than 20 years you know Alonso did nothing wrong
@@gameofender4463wrong
@@gameofender4463 Give it a break George fanboy.
@@nicholas8363”Hating”, because I’m not deluded/deranged when it comes to Saint Fernando. Jog on. The legend made a mistake, accept it and move on.
Absolutely spot on Aldas. I couldn’t agree more. No crash = no investigation and no penalty. BUT - we have to be careful to not equate the stewards with the FIA generally. Stewards rotate and are not directly accountable to the FIA, but rather operate quasi-independently. Your point is still valid however, inconsistency in the application of the rules is a major problem.
We will never have consistency ever unless they employ one group of Stuart’s for the entire season/long term.
@@wowareolys - you can’t expect one group of stewards to be at all 24 races unless you hire them full time. And always having the same stewards can lead to its own problems, with a ‘closed shop’ of decision makers that become isolated and self-reinforcing. It’s not uncommon in sport or for tribunals to have revolving panels from which stewards or adjudicators are drawn from. The issue in F1 is that there isn’t a structured process to govern the exercise of their discretion that ensures consistency. The solution is to have a small pool of lead stewards that meet regularly to discuss and review race decisions and who then rotate between events. They would oversee and guide the decision making processes of the panel of stewards at each race. This would ensure greater consistency with recent decisions as well as the over-arching philosophy that informs all decision making, while still preserving the benefit of having the different perspectives of the guest stewards. Right now there are over 20 stewards nominated by the FIA that rotate between events, and the panel at every race also includes a former driver’s steward (typically different at each race) as well as a steward nominated by the national sanctioning body that hosts each race (which for obvious reasons also changes with each race). As a result, there is rarely an FIA steward that presides over more than one or two races a season, and none of the other stewards typically preside at more than a single race each season. Small wonder there is no consistency.
@@F1FanCanuck yeah, or at least have a head panel fully employed. I mean, they wouldn’t even have to be at each race and could be sitting off site. Still have ex drivers and local stewards and a third rotating one for minor stuff or their opinions. Basically we just need a VAR that overrules bad decisions. But then again, they are instructed to only look at that one incident, so they are, by definition, not even allowed to look at previous comparable incidents, are they? Whichever way, it’s a mess and, tbh. Anything would probably be better than the status quo.
@@wowareolys - I completely agree with a small panel of fully employed head stewards. I think that would be the ideal solution. And they have to consider previous rulings or the sport risks being governed by arbitrary and inconsistent decisions, which will lead to ever more disgruntled drivers and fans. At the end of the day, sport needs to be fair, and fairness requires an identifiable and predictable rules set. And as you point out, that is clearly not the status quo.
Thank you Aldas, finally someone that has a few braincells.
He got penalty only because Russell didnt pay attention. This is ridiculous. Article 33.4: "Dont drive in Formula 1, its dangerous" By the way, now check all other drivers telemetry and give out penalties if anything similar is showing up on the data.
He got a penalty because he misjudged the corner like an amateur. Penalty was fair.
Article 33.4 litteraly can be manipulated any way they want...someone needs to change this stupid rule book
Can’t. The telemetry we have access to is far more inaccurate than most would believe. Comparing the stewards’ notes makes this readily apparent. In the telemetry it looks like a brake check, in reality it was Alonso letting off the throttle 100m earlier than he had at any point prior.
@@gameofender4463Yes, George absolutely misjudged the corner, unfortunately he wasn't the one who received the penalty 🤣
If this was any other car besides a Mercedes there would be no penalty. Crash or no crash.
You know what this reminds me of?Not a international sanctioning organisation, but a school teacher making things up because they need to be seen as doing something
Find it interesting that first of all, Hamilton wasn't penalized for slowing down erratically in Baku in 2017, Perez in 2021, and Kmag 2 weeks ago. The precedent was set and they strayed from it.
The funny thing is when Alonso was defending beautifully against Hamilton in 2021 Hungary, Alonso did the exact same thing. Entering the corners slowly to kill Hamiltons momentum and then punching it. He was controlling Hamilton's pace from the front. What Verstappen did to Hamilton at Qatar 2021 should have been penalized more severely. That was a blatant brake check. This incident in Australia is nothing. Russell crashed because of his error, not because anything Alonso did.
Qatar 2021 is different story. Max had to give position back to Lewis, it was not "driving unnecessary slowly". It was Max letting Lewis by and Lewis not wanting to do that in that particular place.
At this point, they should think of new regulations: everyone should use those segways from Fairly Odd Parents, the ones that go 2 mph. Also, everyone has to be 10 car lengths from each other at all times. Yeah, that would make things a lot better. The new future: Formula 1, the pinnacle of sarcastasport.
Basically the fia have given alonso a penalty because his car gave off dirty air
No they gave it because Alonso slowed down more than 100m before where he usually slowed down AND he allegedly braked twice. He DESERVED it.
@@gameofender4463 if you listen to the audio you can tell its the throttle problem which he said on the radio
@@thescranstation2notbetter509 How convenient that he only mentioned it AFTER the incident.
I get it. lol
Crazy corrupted penalty
It feels like meddling and only fuels conspiracy theories. Looking at it live,it felt like understeer for Russel. Looking back it feels Russel sleeping.
oversteer actually, he hit the wall because he counter steered
That new policy just means you can’t defend your position anymore. Because in order to defend, you have to deviate from your ideal line, which is “driving unnecessarily slowly”. Utterly moronic decision.
Look forward to Alonso reporting this every race.
that overhead shot IMO shows George really didnt close that fast or that much.
Completely on point with this video - should not have been a penalty.
The bigest joke of a penalty I have ever seen. Johnny Herbert should not have a stewarding position. He has shown time and time again that he totally lacks impartiality.
British driver as victim detected, maximum penalty
100% penalty given based on the consequence. Directly thought about Perez in Abu Dhabi 2021 and Alonso in Hungaroring 2021. No issues there
20 secs for this?? Lewis sent Max to the hospital and got 10. They wanted to put him in p8 but because he was 10+secs ahead from Lance and Yuki they needed to give him 20 secs
@@LiquidHey I agree
@@oscarovegren You're so dumb.
@@LiquidHeymove on it’s 3 years later and they’ve already said penalties will be harsher this year
This is the FIA being inconsistent........................the only thing they do consistently.
Nobody, i mean absolutely nobody in the F1 circus knows the rules better then Alonso. Ridicolous penalty and a stupid green table decission
If sacrificing the entry for a faster exit is illegal and dangerous they should just pack it up
This reminded me of the Bottas, vs Russell crash, where he blamed Bottas for his mistake, by the sound of the car of nando he had some mechanical issue with the throttle 😅
Brake test: suddenly brake or slow down, making the car behind brake hard or manoeuvre to avoid a collision. Alonso lifted up 100 meters earlier, 30 kmh slower than the last lap, in order to exit kicker, at the apex he was barely 8 km/h slower but with higher revs. Doesn't sound like a huge brake. Russel had those 100 meters + braking zone (lets say 150 meters) and 3 loooong secods to react before loosing his back at the apex. This is not a brake test, this is racing. There was no contact, not even close since Alonso's speed at that moment was "normal" and probably had a better turn exit, not collision needed to be avoided, just dirty air and lack of reaction on George's side.
I finally saw George's telemetry, he didn't lift an inch.... Alonso going 150 metres "dangerously slow", and he didn't react at all, flat out to the apex as in the previous lap. Two options, either he was asleep, or he decided to put all in, and it went wrong.
Alonso should be given the position back. It wasn’t a break test from his side. Absolutely absurd penalty.
So basically Fernando ‘’ stop racing and just drive the same way all the time “ lmao
Johnny Hebert has always been vocal about his hatred for Alonso. It’s not fair for him to be a steward. Google “Herbert says Alonso incident upset his wife.” He should not have been stewarding.
Herbert still holds a grudge
The craziest thing is that the abnormal "Braking" happened when Russel was in safe distance, then the second braking happened at the normal braking point, kzhead.info/sun/Z9tqpqx5ZKSIpJE/bejne.html when you compare the 2 laps you can clearly see how after slowing down in entry, he is going faster in exit with more KMPH than the previous lap. "Slow in fast out" is a pretty old concept of racing where you sacrifice entry corner speed and recover the speed down the straight, Alonso was battling Russel with DRS, and he needed that speed. It was not a brake test at all because at the moment he tries to slow the car, Russel is far enough, and on top of that he goes to the throttle earlier than the previous lap showing that his technique actually worked. When you have a car in front, the car is your main braking reference, and you cannot be distracted by that like Russel did, if the car would have problems would Russel crash with Alonso or what?
It such a common defence tactic especially in these DRS days that we literally see it happen every race. The penalty is only given because Russel crashed.
Alonso genius is going over peoples head. Russell got tunnel vision again and didn’t react to Alonso.
alonsos genius has gone over peoples heads for his entire career..
Russell needs to learn how to drive
Alonso needs to learn how to take a corner and an L with grace 😂.
Totally if you want to be the next lewis,maybe learn to have better reactons than a 42 yold driver
Alonso needs to learn where the braking points. Braking, accelerating, braking - something not even a rookie does.
@@gameofender4463cry
@@paperplane-db8qfseethe
Probably the worst penalty ive seen...even worse than the COTA one... This is a whole sport problem...why penalise this when you have DRS and ERS recharge?
Absolute stupid penalty seen worse incidents that have received less punishment than this I’m suprised that Aston Martin are not trying to back Alonso and appeal this stupid penalty
Because it was a fair penalty.
@@gameofender4463 Incorrect.
@@FH4Player6397 Nope it was correct. As they know more than you do.
@@gameofender4463 why did they hide Russell's data ?
@@richy69ify dont argue with british
so Alonso got a penalty for disrupting the flow of air going over Russell's car. that's so fucking stupid its unimaginable. there's nothing to penalize.
Fernando definitely tried to upset the rhythm of Russell to have some breathing gap but no doubt he didn't meant any accident to happen. If Russell hadn't crashed we all would be praising Alonso for his masterful "old fox" tactics by now but unfortunately it didn't turn out that way... I've seen way worse tricky movements done by other drivers. I recall what Verstappen did to Kimi at Spa, top of eu rouge, he moved twice to block Kimi. Because Kimi is a sensible driver he didn't drive into back of Max and there were no penalty given. If there was an accident then story would've been different. Anyway, George seems prone to pressure at crucial moment of races. He's too tunnel visioned, his all or nothing mentality has cost him several podiums, IMO.
Completely agree with you. Well put. Anyone else would have capitalized on Alonso’s mistake and had an easy pass. George didn’t react then over reacted and crashed. Everything in F1 is potentially dangerous so why even have that statement. If it’s dangerous driving causing a crash that’s one thing, but potentially dangerous with no regard to the consequence of the outcome, a joke of a penalty. No driver would ever finish a race without a penalty if they use that logic.
Don't get it... GR was within DRS range the entire time. Literally .4 secs behind Fernado. He was driving just fine. he wasn't sliding around or losing grip. It looked like GR just lost concentration on that corner and that was just that.
Any penalty where you have to comb through the data to find fault with the offending driver is ticky tacky at best. The whole purpose of a racing driver is to make a difference behind the wheel, so if we're seriously gonna crack down on any slight deviation from a standardized "safe" driving style then what's the point of drivers? Just automate the cars at that point.
Let's be honest, Alonso got it wrong, but so did Russell. Alonso absolutely got penalized for Russell's mistake
no slipstream, no crash. no break test, no crash. simple as hell. Alonso is just Alonso as always.
@@devilzuser0050What slipstream are you talking about? Do you mean dirty air? And Alonso did not brake test Russell, even the stewards that gave him a 20 second penalty specifically mentioned that he had not done that. It's fine to dislike Alonso. It's only because people have wrong opinions that there are good opinions, so thank you for that. Alonso did not cause Russell to crash. Before Mercedes instructed Russell on what to say, even Russell himself said it had been an error on his part.
@@devilzuser0050 its embarrassing liking your own comments in 2024
@@devilzuser0050 So is it Lando's fault your god crashed in Singapore 2023? It was also confirmed there was no brake test. Devils are morons apparently.
@@devilzuser0050it's all fun pointing at Alonso's telemetry and calling him a cheat, but show us Russell's telemetry too. Give us the full picture. Drivers drive in each other's wake all the time. He didn't lock his front brakes in a panic as he tried to avoid Alonso, he lost the rear, which happens when you overspeed a corner. And if you're gonna say, well he was going too fast because of the wake, then we'll be seeing this sort of thing all the time, but we don't. Russell made a mistake and it's conveniently being ignored to put the blame solely on Alonso
imagine in the old days, missing a gear change, how many crashes were there as a result, George just miscalculated?
Alonso's explanation makes sense, he was trying to go in slow so that he could get out fast. Anyway, what was max's penalty in Jeddah?
It's good to see controversy and courtroom drama still abound in F1 with Johnny "My name is Jeff" Herbert giving a driver, who's been clean up until now, no benefit of the doubt, and dishing out three petty points. Whoops, I meant penalty points.
I remember a radio to Norris racing with GR: "Remember George is all or nothing most of the time"
Finally, an impartial look at the events that unfolded yesterday. Thank you for this take. Subbed.
This was master strategy from old guy ... but Russel is British
FIA officially announced defending as illegal. Ability of this people to make racing of the fastest cars on earth boring is honestly fucking impressive.
If Alonso got 20 seconds, K mag should've gotten 20 minutes last race 😂
Fun fact is that KMag could have gotten 20 hours, yet that would not affect his position. He was the penultimate car on the lead lap and you can add whatever much time you want, he can (and he did) lose just one position. Ocon was, like, 8 seconds behind him, but since Max was between them, Ocon had to take the checkered flag and was classified with one lap less and KMag's added time was irrelevant.
Russell is just a wall-magnet. In my home we call him "George Time Penalty Russell" 😂 The FIA is just just FIA. Opaque and inconsistent due to old-boys mentality.
The assessment of the Stewards doesn't make any sense. They claim to "not take the consequences of the accident into account", but without those consequences they wouldn't have looked at Alonso's trace data in the first place? So what does this mean? Drivers are no longer allowed to experiment trying to get a faster line? Or no longer allowed to lift-and-coast because the driver behind may not have noticed it? Drivers are now going to be judged for what they potentially could have done, rather than what they actually did? Not a good call by the Stewards on this one. With regards to the VSC: What would throwing a red flag have changed? It was the last lap, the race is over after this. Afaik drivers have to drive to a delta under both red flag and VSC conditions so it wouldn't really have made any difference for the on-track situation while still being able to show a chequered flag to the audience rather than go into a whole palaver about wether they need to redo the last lap, countbacks, coming up with a final result 3 hours later etc... I expected a red flag, but in retrospect because it was the last lap a VSC achieved the same result without any administrative headache.
Do the sensors on the car measure the lack of adhesion to the road? Alonso had been sliding around a bit before this compared to George.
If Russel would have passed him, it would have been an Alonso mistake. If Russel wouldnt have crashed and just gone to the gravel and then back on the trackk, it would have been a Russell mistake and considered "Hard Racing."
Whether he should get a penalty is debatable. But 20s is ridiculous
@FIA unnecessarily meddling with on track craft and dishing out penalties, while a car is stranded in the middle of the road and they don't feel the need to red flag. Their judgement is so poor, incompetent, yet detailing into this investigation is commendable.
Alonso kept Russell's car behind him in the final laps between .003 & .008 sec. Alsons was controlling the race and he knew what he was doing to keep Russell behind him....he has done it so many times in the past....beside...how many accident that same turn 6 had seen during this Australian GP...Russel have records of smashing his car when he is under pressure....not a fair penalty at all
Alonso did a little naughty driving but it’s George fault because he had so much time to react. If he didn’t crash there would be no penalty
It's called racing strategy! You know, the thing we all tune in to watch...
Thank you, finally someone is finally talking sense!
As with Singapore last year, Russell gets the bit between his teeth when chasing in the final laps and doesnt make the best decisions based on what other drivers do. No crash and this would have been no issue. An immediate red flag given the crash and where the car was would have probably been the right decision, but George had more than enough time to react and chose not to.
If red flag was given,… Alonso would have been last of the race with this penalty
Its called getting your opponent out of their rhythm. It happens in literally every single sport. Theres no way Fernando could have predicted RUS would crash his car. Its the last lap and he wasn't paying attention.
Alonso definitely slowed on purpose and then acted it was throttle but that was nowhere near a brake test, George was too focused on Alonso's car rather than the track and caught himself off guard in that corner, his own mistake. Unfair penalty
More like the stewarts trying to coverup their mistake of not calling for a red flag while a driver at risk.
In short FIA penalizes fernando because russell has a skill issue
F1 is going to get real boring is giving four DRS zones and blending out of the throttle into a tight corner setting up a long fast run isn’t legal (the stewards specifically say he almost barely braked but rather approached the corner slowly). George, famous for pointing out illegal driving, said it was his fault and also never noted anything about the incident until he heard Alonso was being summoned to the stewards. That alone tells me this was a normal racing incident at worst..
its weird tho, both haas drivers just zig zag all over the track to not let anyone pass all race long every race, max always pushing people off track to not let them pass him on the outside (back when he had to fight for positions) is all normal for the regulators (as it should be imo, thats racing after all) but then suddenly because a driver decided to not do what everyone is "supposed" to do he gets a penalty? if the drivers can't drive their own way then why have people driving it? just slot in some robots or make the cars run on rails then you never have human error be it intention or not ever again
lol did the FIA start letting Michael Masi make race decisions again? This smacks of his handiwork 😂
The race director doesn't give penalties, the stewards do.
@@GloomGaiGar I was just being facetious, tongue in cheek.
Mohammed Ben Sulayem "hold my beer! "
I think you nailed it at the end of the video. Alonso outright admitted that he was trying to do something different in order to throw off Russell/keep him on his toes, which is currently what "erratic" driving means. So, in the current ruleset, Alonso was indeed doing something that would be considered dangerous. It definitely was investigated because Russell crashed, but that's how it has always been. If Max wasn't thrown into the wall in Silverstone 2021, I don't think Hamilton would've been given a penalty. I don't think it's as inconsistent as everyone says, it's just that the FIA refuse to admit that they take the outcome into account and that's what makes everyone feel like the decision is inconsistent.
Incoming new rule: overtakes can only happen because of undercuts or overcuts. Racing is "potentially dangerous". Not the first time Russell ends up in the wall in the last lap... Not to mention Alonso's defense on last lap Brazil 2023.
That is the dumbest penalty i have ever seen. Russell crashed on his own. You are allowed to drive your car the way you want and pick the optimum line. Russell was too trigger happy, got caught out and made a mistake. Ridiculous penalty
So big deal...... he's driving in the front position......no different to a dope behind not watching where he's going. Complete bullshit, this penalty....Russell took himself out.....
A very small mistake in braking early isn't driving dangerous, like you said maybe the reason for him pressing the brake was to recharge the battery, unless the FIA as already stated that unnecessary baking to recover the power unit is dangerous, it seam like a odd one.
He was using his wake to disturb his downforce through a high speed corner, He's smart he knows what he was doing
Proof the FIA is heavily flawed and biased. Max did this to Lewis in 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix legit brake checked him that resulted in Lewis hitting Max and got ZERO reprimand for it. So why does Alonso get a 20 sec penalty?
Wasn't that because Max was told to let Lewis past but Lewis didn't know because Max was told first?
yes. Lewis just speared into him for no reason when Max was trying to listen to the FIA...@@Rayer24
Max got a 10 second penalty for that brake check. Should be common knowledge by now. Also, the FIA back then is much different to the FIA now, hence the harsher penalty.
@@Rayer24 There is ZERO inconsistency. To let Lewis go by does not mean to slam on your brakes and cause damage
@@SmileitsKyleeeee Being the FIA is not what what it was back then does not justify inconsistency. To let Lewis go by does not mean to slam on your brakes and cause damage
The worst thing is that Russel only lost it because Mercedes have no rear stability. He saw it coming and reacted, his car didn't cope. Both Russel and Hamilton already said Mercedes have bad rear grip this year. Any other car on Russel's hands and I doubt he would have foksmashed into the barriers
This is the first time i have seen anyone but myself point out that Russell had 3-4 SECONDS to react, honestly.... i think neither Magnussen nor Perez, nor Alonso should be penalized... because its not in breach of the article... it's quite simply not unnessecary, as the point is quite simply how you manage your resources, kmag had a fuel surplus and tires to pullaway after hulkenberg pittet and he himself gained a gap for the rest of the race, so in fairness he didn't get lapped his competition did, and magnussen effectively gained 20Seconds to his opponents, that is technically speaking faster, so was it unnecessary? from Kmags position NO! He won time and postion overall and actually had an easier time defending his own position on track besides his late race performance! So completely legal. Alonso... is defending his position, considers it an advantage over the full lap to have a better exit without too much battery deploy so he still had some left for DRS zone 4 to stay ahead for the last 2 laps when crossing the line, he thinks ahead, wants an advantage and the gain is good, could it make the DRS from Russell and the drafting less usefull NO, in fact Russel would be able to run wider and bring more speed through the corner, or lift earlier charging the ERS himself! But the change in style might only give Russell 2 seconds to select which option he wants, that is the main advantage for Alonso. Now... George is supposedly if we believe Toto Wolf a future World champion.... yet if that is true then HOW THE FUCK CAN HE MAKE SUCH A ROOKIE MISTAKE AS TO STAY IN THE SLIPSTREAM WITH 4 SECONDS OF WARNING OF THE ERS LIGHTS ANNOUNCING IT! The fact that he claims to be surprised by this... is.... Russell if that is true... Let Mick or Vesti drive and retire, or even better what if we call Latifi he might at least bring the car home in one piece. Now granted I am not an Alonso fan... and i think he has got a lot of favourable calls in his direction, something about a mirror flying off and not being given a Black and Orange flag, while KMag with a slightly bend endplate with safety tethers gets Instantly Black and Orange flagged... etc. etc. he was overdue a penalty going against him. But That doesn't mean I think this penalty is fair nor deserved in any way. And I 100% agree that the call is inconsistent and downright goes against the precedence. It's kind of incompetent in my opinion, and it clearly shows that Johnny Herbert has never raced a hybrid-engine race car, put someone in that role who knows what its about, like Nico Rosberg, or Jenson Button, Heck maybe Alonso Retires and he can keep that position, Or bring in Tom Kristensen a bit more. IDC as long as it's not an incompetent and amnesiac guy like Johnny Herbert who struggle to remember just 1 race back. And doesn't bother to look up the overall precedence. For not to mention the fact that they acknowledge this was Alonso's right to drive like this, but it was "Dangerous"... Dangerous my ass yes if you put a toddler in the car or drive it blindfolded. Staying that close to another car for a draft in the first place is dumb Aero cars 101 says NO IMMEDIATE AREO Upon the closing of the DRS, it takes a bit for the wing to actually work... so even if Alonso hadn't lifted Russell would have STILL Crashed, because he failed to understand you cannot DRAFT THROUGH A CORNER IN F1 AT 200+KM/H On Lap 1 with full fuel, so you obviously can't on Lap 58 when the car is light! The fact that Russell fail to take responsibility for this mistake is... cringeworthy! I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't only enforce the rule this time because Fans were unhappy about KMag lifting in Jeddah, and its all a populistic failure. If that is true... wow FIA they are dumb, lets not excercise it against one of the most popular drivers on the grid... Enforce it on KMAG or OCON or SERGENT, where fans don't really care, or are so few in numbers that the fraction that do care is less pissed off than the other driver(s)' fan bases in pure head count. Oh well, I am just annoyed, because I know the next time a driver is then doing something dangerous its not being penalized, then drama, then something harmless happens and its a DSQ, or some crap. I just want racing, and honestly that involves parking the bus so to speak, as well as wheel to wheel with a bit of contact where its just a racing incident sometimes... no contact racing in F1 is called the DRS TRAIN! Take a risk goddamn it, throw the anchor, do some KMag/Alonso things. Albon: "They are so dangerous!" Shut up Albon stop crying, Hulkenberg made an overtake and it was good racing little princess. Steering under breaking.. okay we have rules for that. Waving on the straights okay we have rules for that, But should there be? Well yes those things are actually quite lethal if a crash happens, so keep those. But If you run into the gravel the most of the energy is getting drained before you even hit the wall.. look at Russels car... barely any body work that took damage, a few broken wheels an impact at about 60-90km/h. Had there been a run off area instead of gravel, Russel would have just run wide... come back on, and still be ahead of Stroll... no problem. But it has a consequence that he WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION, and then Alonso gets penalised... wow... just wow... The Crash itself wasn't even that high speed because there was gravel, so deeming this as potentially dangerous is... GROW A BRAIN! Alonso's maneuver: Was it Dangerous? No. Was it Unpredictable and thus erratic? No... Was it Unnessecarily slow driving? Also no... Does it breach the article then? ABSOLUTELY NOT! The fact that Aston Martin doesn't want to appeal is 100% because they don't consider it worth the effort, they would rather spend their money on the car... and Stomp Mercedes, who seriously needs to get their shite together and build a better car. Or it will be the Concorde all over again, because they only know how to build hyhbrid engines well, and then no clue about ground effect. It's ridiculous.
I think the main issue is the way the car reacts to dirty air, it's a Mercedes design problem.
George wrecked ! This is BS . George wrecks when under pressure.