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Over 3 years ago, the minecraft caves and cliffs update was announced, easily looking to be the games biggest update ever. However, now a few years later, the update is remembered quite differently...
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Birch Forest Mod - www.curseforge.com/minecraft/...
0:00 - Intro
1:26 - REDMAGIC Sponsor AD
3:17 - Caves and Cliffs Announced
6:26 - Things Begin Going Wrong…
10:08 - The Catalyst
12:31 - What Went Wrong?
15:41 - The Bar Was Set Too High
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1. 12 Continent - The Journey
2. DBadge - Ashtray ( • Beats From The Cloud &t=103)
3. C418 - Shuniji
4. Scott Buckley - Horizons
5. Lena Raine - Rubedo
6. C418 - Flake
7. C418 - Living Mice
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#minecraft #minecraftupdate #cavesandcliffsupdate
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Nice
Love your videos
Ok
im here very early (about 1 min after vid uploaded)
4TH
Years later, I'm still baffled that fireflies weren't added even though the frogs can eat living cubes of magma
"to keep the game realistic" - mojang 🤡
Fr they could of made it where the frogs didn’t eat them and it would have been fine
Ohhh that’s how you get red froglights
Skipnutz
@@BlackCat-iw1kp Not really realism but to avoid misrepresenting real animals, one of their design principles for modern Minecraft (which "vanilla-style" mods also follow). Doesn't explain being able to eat Magma Cubes, tho. Lol. But yeah.
the firefly thing is mind boggling when you can literally kill parrots by feeding them cookies (which are poisonous to them)
To be kinda fair, you have to feed the Parrots with Cookies yourself, whereas the Frogs were planned to eat Fireflies by themselves. They could've just removed Frogs' ability to eat them and kept the Fireflies.
@@KyanoAng3l0 either way it’s still the same thing and even then wouldn’t doing it yourself make it worse.
@@Greenhawk4One clearly tells you its dangerous the other was going to be a positive. Like, theres a clear difference. I think its stupid too, but we cant act like they're literally the *same*, because theres a difference
@@sporeham1674 there really isn’t.
This was also because they became aware of a poisonous food to an animal. Originally, cookies were going to be their breeding food.
The thing you didn't mention that I think everyone should is the contrast in between the first Caves and Cliffs delay (by Lady Agnes) vs the announcement where they said they're not doing the birch forest. The contrast in the tone of the videos is insane. Maybe it's just Lady Agnes and seeing how sad she was when announcing the delay when we're used to seeing her happy? Regardless, the 1.19 delay announcement video felt very cold.
I mean.. can you blame her? I think people forgot why notch left. The community is so toxic. I can only imagine how Agnes feels.
@@mom2088 notch left because he didn’t want to keep working on minecraft, and he became burnt out from gamedev until recently i don’t think the community had anything to do with it
@@emperortoho the community bullied notch because he removed pay2win servers. this is why he sold the game
No way, ain't no way@@MMMMMMMMARCUSSS
@@MMMMMMMMARCUSSS he left the game for multiple other reasons burnout, losing interest in minecraft, wanting to move on to other projects, wanting to do more experimental games
The way she talked about the Birch Forest cancelation felt as if she was blaming the community for their expectations. Even though they announced it as if it was a feature, it felt as if the rug was getting pulled out beneath your feet while also being told it was your fault being on the carpet after being directed to the carpet. It was a pretty dumb move to announce it the way they did.
I noticed that too! Something about the way she said, "The birch forest art was CONCEPT ART. We didn't SAY it would be added.!" It felt condesending
Gaslight your fanbase it’s fine 😏
typical "I am sorry that you had such expectations of us" bs
@@garlikbred6474Ye thats dumb to make concept art, to HYPE the community, and then to act like it wasnt "supposed" to be added. Tho i think mojang probably learnt from the past, we'll see the updates after 1.21.
No.
This video reminds me of my favorite quote from Customers for Life by Carl Sewell "Under promise, over deliver. Customers expect you to keep your word. Exceed it"
I think that's why the next update (the one with the trial chambers) looks really good. I mean, they added Market Gardening AND wolves variants alongside some other things, but it's really good so far because none of it was promised or expected
I feel like, these past couple years, the updates have had SOOO much influence on the game and the community. It was bound to happen that a Minecraft update would have some controversy.
I feel like the first one that people cared about (1.13) had controversy from the fact that it was extremely laggy for servers and killed the game's performance
@@minebrandon95264I’d say the first one people cared about was 1.9 as it removed egap crafting and completely revamped the combat system, which came with a lot of controversy
@@angelascotney3204 cared about as in the main wave of updates that everyone loved, i.e. 1.13, 1.14, 1.16, and the announcement of 1.17. 1.9 doesn't count as people didn't like it at the time.
@@angelascotney3204 I could think of many more controversial updates, for example Beta 1.8, as the new generation was pretty much a downgrade, and the new hunger bar didn't really get any positive feedback
Tbhhhh I still think 1.16 is Minecraft’s largest update and best update. That’s mojang at its best, pushing themselves for the sake of the community. 4-5 biomes, new structure, many new blocks, armour set, respawn anchors and new mobs. It makes me terrified for future updates like a deep dark biome, or end rework. Because since kingbdogz said the nether update ain’t sustainable. We likely won’t get as much content as we did for the end or sculk updates compared to the nether
We were cursed by this update feels like ngl
The worst thing i hate about this update is all the random caves underground ruining mob farm effiencies. One random cave that has no opening to it with 70 mobs running around
@@SuperLifestream That already happened before, though? Just afk in the sky so they're out of range.
Important detail: Every update before 1.17 OVERDELIVERED features. The fact that so many additions to the game weren't even in the prior Minecraft Live made Mojang seem like they were going above and beyond (which they were). Compare that to taking 3+ years to add not even all of the features advertised and many of the unrelated new features in 1.17-1.20 not being related to the original theme of updating well, the game's caves and cliffs.
That's why we were happy.
and every update after 1.19 has also overdelivered. 1.17-1.19 was the zone where this flipped.
@@waytoobiased yeah but the new updates kinda fit the description "random sh*t update"
@@waytoobiased It hasn't overdelivered anything, only noteworthy features are Armor trims and maybe crafters or wind charges? All the features are worthless, one use items, not significant at all, worthless mobs that do nothing or have one use again... When tf does anyone use a camel? Horses are better and have more depth, why not just let horses carry 2 people? Cherry blossom biomes are bland, add them to the 50 biomes in need of an overhaul or additions Warden was caves and cliffs sloppy seconds, so only thing 1.19 actually added was mangrove swamps, which were meant to update actual swamps but instead, yet another new biome instead of fixing up the 50 we have already 1.21 is shaping up to be another mid af update, mace is worthless in solo play and PVE, and absolutely overpowered in PVP, and the only feature its added is the trial chamber which was fully revealed at Live. Copper bulbs were exciting, but Mojang saw how much people loved them and said "No, we cant have any positive reactions to this!" and immediately soured the update. Following that with not showing anything of value, still just trial chamber slop.
they weren't going above and beyond, they were doing the bare minimum, if even that instead of fixing the game's core issues they continued to (and still do) dangle keys in front of the community instead them underdelivering was pure laziness and greed, that or they're the most incompetent dev team of all time
I feel like we got past the "renewal updates" era when each update was focused on refreshing some important piece of game (oceans, villages, nether, terrain). This era starting with 1.13 basically ended with 1.19 and now Mojang isn't sure what the next updates should be about. In my opinion Mojang should now focus on adding the seemingly forgotten vote losers (that they promised to add one day) and the features they skipped (especially proper archeology). It doesn't need to be anything new to be exciting. The entire community would love to see those features because we always hoped to see them. It's the simplest and the best thing they could do. No hard work thinking of new stuff, no controversy, just implementing what they have already shown us.
cough cough End Update cough cough
So many small updates they can do. A food update, an animal update, a furniture update, a building update, another villager update with more professions maybe.
@@Solo-vh9fm not to mention that the enchanting/repairing system is still shit...
if you asked me i think they should just revamp the entire game and go back to its weird and silly fantasy game roots
@@TACTIK00L yeah, for a “Fantasy” game, they sure want to make it more “Realistic”...
I will never forget Mojang for not adding fireflies. Even if they don't want frogs to eat them, just remove that feature but keep the fireflies. Also still waiting on the fletching table, you know that one workstation from 1.14 that I think Mojang forgot about.
There's a lot of things Mojang forgot about... We're still waiting for the Desert, Savanna, and Badlands biome updates.
the fireflies removal is overhated by the community, it's two pixels of ambience, ambience, the very thing players complain about constantly. They probably just thought that the Fireflies would be seen as another glow squid, and decided to not add it
@@hsdiamond2113glow squid is a bad comparison, people didnt like the glow squid due to the controversy around that mob vote, and felt it was really underwhelming compared to the iceologer. If iceologer was replaced with another useless mob I think it wouldve been better recieved
@@Ultra_Ocelot if the iceologer was voted instead people would complain that it's too uncommon, which it is. The mob votes are meant to have very little impact bc you never know when it comes to votes whether it'd be hacked, botted, or maybe your community just doesn't know anything about what's good for the game or smth. It's meant to be a illusion of control.
@@hsdiamond2113 The reason people complain is because their excuses for removing it are extremely stupid. Nobody would complain if they just added them back in as ambient particles.
1.17: Caves & Cliffs pt.1) Delays are understandable. 1.18: Caves & Cliffs pt.2) Why is the Deep Dark delayed? 1.19: Caves & Cliffs pt.3) Half of the update is the Deep Dark. 1.19.1: The Unwanted Update) Mojang, WHAT THE HECK. 1.20: Caves & Cliffs pt.4/Trails and Tales) It's about time they finished it. 1.21: Heights and Hollows (best name I could come up with)) An actually new update.
Its simple the problem that they set a precident for these big overhaul updates (neather/C&C) and then go years without a update of that magnitude make everything that comes after feel small and lazy which tbf it is...
Exactly
Bro revamps world generation then adds a fucking tree
@@anony-moon shows concept art of a new biome proceeds to not add said biome
They were overworked for 1.16 and it was apparently too stressful for them.
@hsdiamond2113 then thats something wrong with the way mojang manages or develops their game. Because this is a muti million dollar studio thats having trouble keeping up with consistent updates to their muti million if not billion dollar game, their community updates more frequently through mods. And yes i get "mods" are different from getting the game actually updated but it seriously cant be so much harder it takes mutiple years to add a update that someone in their basement develop in a few months into the official version of minecraft. Not to mention they charge bedrock for mods as oppose to just officially adding them to the game. Theres 0 excuse for mojang at this point in time
To be honest yeah it was a bit dissapointing due to the update being split in like 3 updates 😭And the fact that mojang made us expect wayyyy too much and had our hopes HIGH😭
Setting expectations then failing to meet those expectations after making a promise to Is their major flaw
@@anony-moon lol yeah they shouldve taken their time and release them ALL in 1 update but seeing how many people cant wait I wouldnt be suprised why they probably rushed it out to calm people down but it only made it worse ☠
Nah it still isn't complete cuz of bundled
they could've easily developed the entire update before the delay, they just chose not to
technically 4, archaeology came 3 updates after 1.17💀
Another thing is that they decided to reveal all of the content for caves and cliffs at once pretty much, when the nether update was announced, they didnt even reveal netherite yet among many other things. If they would have just not announced things like the bundle, archeology, ect... We still could have gotten them at the same pace and we'd all be happy because we didnt even know they were delayed
Oh a byzantine empire, they should have announced tbe update in steps instead of all at once
I feel like the biggest thing holding Mojang back from making good updates is the fact that for some reason, they have to release a new update every year. I don't know if they're doing it to themselves because they think players will get mad without new updates even with snapshots existing, or if Microsoft is forcing it on them because it's good for marketing or something, but the development cycle would be so much better without it. They wouldn't have to crunch in order to make good updates, they could just delay the update as much as they want and work at a fair pace until it's done. Or better yet, just don't have a public release window at all and wait until it's ready to tell us, which is what basically every other game does.
Why does every update new to be big? Just make a new update adding new blocks. A furniture update would be nice (I know they said they wouldn’t do this but it would open so much creativity - as in not having to build everything medieval). An animal or a food update seem to be more popular. Not every update needs a new biome or overhaul a dimension.
dude, do you have any idea how much time is in a YEAR? they should be able to make 5 """major""" updates in that time if not more
@@fortnitesexman I dont think you understand of what overworking is if they do that
@@fortnitesexmanI hope u are baiting
@@Solo-vh9fm Every update doesn't need to be big, but with the size of the updates we've gotten after 1.19 it should not be taking a full YEAR to get this shit out.
Tbh, I don't mind waiting. As a Minecrafter since Infdev, I've grown so used to it, anyway. Overpromising and canceling announced features, tho, is a different story. I hope Mojang has learned their lesson. One thing I'm glad about is that 1.13+ revived ppl's interest in the game incl. modders, and now mods are helping keep the interest alive in spite of the disappointments. I thought 1.20 would be another very unpopular version, but I'm now at 1.20.1 thanks to mods, lol.
Tbh Trial Chambers in 1.20.1 seem like its gonna be a great update with whats been added. Someday I will make a New World and play through all the new content properly. Want to do an all Advancement playthrough now too.
That whole alternate reality thing really tells me how important public relation is for a game developer
cant believe we're still waiting for the bundle, bundles would be so good in survival and steve would be able to flex his strength
It's all thanks to Bedrock
@aftermath20 more specifically pocket edition.
@@HasnaynKamran-hl5vz yeah just roll features out to java but not bedrock/pocket yet imo. no one will be mad except 7 year olds who dont have pcs
@@Will_TDS they already did that with the offhand
@@aftermath20 java and bedrock would be better if they were to get seperate updates and go seperate ways tbh
I think mojang forgot they are a game studio. They can make delays if needed and the community would probably be happier about that then cutting stuff.
Bro we still don’t have all the features from 1.17 😭 But to be fair the extra time really helped Mojang flesh them out to be a much better end result.
that second paragraph is critical. the Warden and archeology would have sucked were they implemented as shown in 2020. The additional cook time saved both.
@@waytoobiasedhow do they save bundles I think they will be added soon
@@waytoobiased Archaeology still sucks lul
@@waytoobiased Archaeology ended up worse than announced tbh, most of the time you just get fucking trash "urrr but single coloured glass pane is story!!!" No it's not, it's stupid as shit and a copout, just add actual cosmetic artifacts instead of constant 'I could make an entire shulker box of these in the time it took to brush this shit' Why not add a bunch of cool artifacts like chalices, chandiliers and shit exclusive to archaeology? Why no colourable pots? Why not archaeology in the soul sand valleys with Nether brick, crimson and warped brick pots + sherds? Mojang hasnt added any new cave biomes or nether biomes since the updates, so basically they wont add to the archaeology ever.
@@willydonka1041 "exclusive to archaeology" what do you think the sniffer is? as for the smithing templates and pottery sherds that one can also get from digging, the trial chambers are already getting new types of each of those
8:50 concept art is not a commitment but an announcement is if the community knows about a concept that now has to be added to the game
1.19: The Wild Update❌ 1.19: The Horror Update✅
Don't worry guys I won't let minecraft die
Same
I am Minecraft die and you can let me guys worry don't tbh
I harf an strock
Shrek
@@anony-moon stroke
Mojang is making huge changes to the code of the game with each update since 1.19, making it easier to add features in the future. I think they are preparing for more big updates like the Nether update. Then they can just focus on making the update and not having to worry about updating ancient code to support their ideas
also makes data pack creators’ jobs easier apparently they’re really excited for 1.20.5, and I’m sure they have good reasons to be that I don’t know about
@@waytoobiased 1.20.4 goes with datapack version 26. 1.20.5 goes with version 41. Need I say more?
@@witherschat true
@@waytoobiased yes, definitely, they allow way more customization. If they keep going in this rate most mods could even be created using a datapack
@@witherschat holy-
1.16: nether update 1.17: caves and cliffs 1 1.18: caves and cliffs 2 1.19: caves and cliffs 3 1.20: caves and cliffs 4
1.21: not caves and cliffs part 5, but its flagship experience does take place underground soooooooo
@@waytoobiased please tell you are joking
@@Tem_1997 the more updates we can jokingly say are part of the cave update, the funnier it is
Honestly the Potato Update was FIRE 🔥🔥🔥
They put so much more effort into an APRIL FOOLS update than they ever do in real updates now
FR
@@BonziBUDDY well it's much easier to add stuff to the game when you don't have to bug test, balance features, make sure it fits into the game well and code for two separate versions both in different programming languages.
@@zacharytaylor9122 "when you don't have to bug test" Thankfully the release versions aren't buggy, oh wait.... "balance features" Thankfully the release versions are balanced, oh wait.... "make sure it fits into the game well " Thankfully all content in Minecraft fits into the game well, oh wait....
@@anonanonymous9670April fools updates also dont go on bedrock which makes them way easier to make.
I wonder if the alternate universe of not revealing the warden and all until they were ready would still spawn the meme of "Mojang employees after adding 1 of the 3 mobs in the mob vote and taking a break for the rest of the year"
I think it still would because the criticism is still completely valid, all three mobs could still coexist but mojang simply decides not to add them despite not needing much changes to fit the game.
@@n9it 100% agreed, just wondering if it would be as huge of a deal, since hating on Mojang seemed to gain a lot of popularity after these delays
That meme was also a catalyst and I wish it never spawned as it normalized attacking the Mojang devs
@@n9itCalling them lazy is *not* valid criticism, and if they never announced the mob votes I bet they will still do this type of “criticism” which isn’t criticism but just complaining…
@@justaguy2183it literally is criticism tho, the devs are astronomically lazy, to the point they can't even push out a single update, they have to split it into 3 entire updates across several years YEARS, i don't think you know just how fucking large a gap of time that is, if they had a team of only like 3 guys then sure, i could maybe look past it, but this is just way too blatant a sign
Remember basalt deltas were added because people were becoming a bit angry about not getting their 4th new biome they mention during Minecraft live or whatever they call it back then.
Bundles still aren't in the game btw, so technically the Caves & Cliffs update as it was introduced still isn't finished.
That would be because they don't know how to make it functional for mobile users
@@iansarmiento23they could simply just not add it on mobile... they already did this for console versions when they couldnt figure out how to make features work
@@iansarmiento23 Just tell mobile users pay for Java edition. What? Bedrock is already full of micro-transactions. This addition would feel right at home!
4years delay is crazy 💀
@@ProtofallJava Edition also requires a pc
The diamond sword frog joke was funny From now on imma kill frogs to spite mojang and create a frog farm that kills frogs Yeeeaa take that mojang, let's see you remove Redstone
Looking at 1.20.5 changes as plugin developer I'm shaking how many things they are doing completely reworking NBT implementing effectively proxy funkcionality into vanilla server jar fast load packets when switching servers being able to implement a custom world compression algorithm in vanilla server And maybe more things that I haven't discovered yet but they are sure cooking something big
Or they plan to entirely dump the game on the community and leave it be in a couple of years?
The only addition I found interesting that wasn't a delayed feature in 1.19 and 1.20 was the Cherry Blossom Biome. It immediately grabbed my attention, and I literally played for a little bit because of it. But that's it, nothing has brought me back since 1.17 and 1.18 really, which them being separate numbers never fully made sense.
3:08 "You even get a customisable anime girl assistant" 💀💀
"let's not add this 2 pixel ambience mob, what could possibly go wrong?" the minecraft community was never the same again
Looking into the future, 1.21 has some amazing content to play with. I think we're finally getting a great update again and I'm really looking forward to finally be able to play it
I've played with the new 1.21 features, the vibe is very similar to 1.20, seemingly really exciting but once you do the things once it kinda gets old
the thing that blows my mind is that modders have added features Mojang left out in a matter of weeks, yet Mojang can't do it themselves because it is "too difficult." I'm sure that it'd be IMPOSSIBLE for the modding community to make a gloomshroom, it's just too much to ask for...
Thing is modding is different than developing. Mojang has to code doubles of every feature added because theirs two editions of the game. They then need to play test the game on all available platforms from pc, switch, ipad, and so on to ensure it’s bug free. An edition to all that before any coding is done they need the idea to be approved by the higher ups otherwise the idea sits in the bin. Modders on the other hand develop for one edition of the game for usually one platform. This results in significantly less coding and play testing. Additionally they don’t need approval from higher ups to start creating a new feature.
Mojang at Minecraft live: This update were working on is going to have updated birch forests and fireflies. Mojang 2 months later: We never promised anything even when we practically did.
"How dare the community expect us to follow through what we show at an announcement?"
they said their working on it? or it was just concept what they going to do in the future
the nether update was the first time I was excited to play Minecraft since the ocean update on ps3
This update is the epitome of being so great, it makes other updates look miniscule in comparison.
"you even get an customizable Anime girl assistant, it just keeps getting better and better" -TheMisterEpic 4/20/24
He blazing something that day.
I really was confused when mojang said fireflies don't come into Minecraft because of the frogs but of course they eat cubes that are made of magma...
Can you feed dogs cookies in minecraft? You can’t. Partially because that’s just how their diet works, but also because chocolate is very lethal to dogs. Can you feed a frog living balls of slime or magma? No, you can’t. (or if you can do the latter, it’ll only be once) But people can have access to fireflies. And if they see frogs in minecraft do it, they might not think twice about feeding their frogs the same. Frogs eating fireflies seems reasonable. Just how many people do you think are aware that chocolate is poisonous to parrots because of minecraft. The number is likely quite sizeable. It’s not unlikely that hundreds of pet frogs would die because of what seems like an innocent feature.
I actually beg that they bring out that birch forest one day bc the concept art looks great and the birch forests are kinda cool but quite lacking at the same time
i feel like this 1.21 is also not going to be reviewed very well by a lot of multiplayer servers that use crystals pvp (just anarchy in general) as totems and emeralds and now near impossible to have a efficent farm due to raids not working anymore with a ominous bottle :(
imho that nerf was a good move on Mojang’s part (*totems of undying* shouldn’t be something you can automatically farm), but yeah, people are gonna be salty about it
You do realise some actual anarchy serves have duplication exploits right?
Raid farms still work. They're jusr a bit more complex and decently slower.
TLDR: FIREFLIES DID IT FOR ME. The fact they refused to add something on such convoluted and misguided grounds was ultimately why I reverted back to playing older, modded versions of the game... Something that has continued to bother me is the lack of useful/consumable drops upon animal/creature death. At its core Minecraft was and still is a survival game. It feels bad when you're surrounded by mobs with convoluted and niche purposes that really dont enhance the player experience in the long run. For example goats - lets be real - horns are nice and all but shouldn't you also get some sort of meat from them??? It also erks me that I would guess this strange ideology that consumable drops are disrespectful, is responsible for the lack of several interesting and long requested mobs (deer, brown bear). If Mojang doesnt like the idea of players building mob-farms for resources then they really need to reassess there entire development ideology. Why should cows drop a consumable food and polar bears not? - polar bears have been hunted for millenia by Inuit peoples here in the real world for both meat and hide. Adding a useful drop to the polar bear would also allow for another unique sourch of leather, which can be hard to farm early game, if you lack wheat or cows. Dispite the fact that it goes counter to their own original vision for the game (IMO) If Mojang really wanted to deinsentivise certain mob farms (polar bear, panda, goat etc.) then they should add detriments to their drop/make them situational. For example: polar bear meat could give high saturation and the cost of making you sick after eating more the one piece at a time (polar bear meat can give you vitamin A poisoning) - thus deinsentivising farming while also respecting the mob in the game with an actual purpose to the player (rather than being a "set-piece"). The could also be much more aggressive and harder to kill, for example. Another hypothetical example would be deer: deer could drop meat, leather and antler, once again being another source of leather early game. To deinsentivise farming (once again, I dont necessarily AGREE with this direction that Mojang is taking mob development regarding this point BUT) deer could be very hard to breed (once aagain mirroring real life) with a diet of specific saplings being required to satiate each deer, in addition to them being very skiddish in general. ONE MORE example - Goats, could drop goat meat and leather but perhaps only be breedable in certain biomes. One LAST thing regarding the above suggestions - all of these leather sources could be diversified so cows give normal leather but polar bears give tough leather, maybe goats and deer give thin leather or leather strips or something of that sort. In summary, I thing the increasing number of pointless, "decrative" mobs has slowly been killing the game. I'm not asking for bats to drop bat-meat and dogs to drop dog-meat etc. (most people actually find a use for dogs in their playthroughs lol) but for crying out loud its a fantasy survival sandbox - just let me get goat meat when Im out exploring a mountain biome so I don't have to run back to my base to get the chicken I crushed to death in my chicken farm. It's the hypocrisy that really erks me here. They don't want to add simple animals that enhance player immersion and directly influence gameplay in favor of niche and unaccessible "wall-dressing" (im sorry snuffer) that ultimately contributes very little to the player experience - all because said animals (deer, moose, bear, lion) could be killed for food etc.. ?? But my entity cramming chicken farm is AOK?? COME ON MOJANG! It all came to a head for me when they refused to add fireflies, something that would greatly enhanve emersion in the overworld - due to the fact that fireflies are consumed by frogs here in the real world... this is a FANTASY SURVIVAL SANDBOX Mojang. THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO'D BE UPSET ABOUT FIREFLIES IN THE GAME ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME. (investors.. shareholders...) BECAUSE EVERYONE WHO ACTUALLY PLAYS THE GAME KNOWS YOU HAVE TO KILL STUFF IN THE GAME TO PROGRESS, to survive even (which Mojang seems to have forgotten is still a CORE aspect of their game lol). Lastly, lastly - the whole thing just reaks of a corperate, eurocentric understanding of nature and the environment. Growing up around American Indians where I live, the LAST THING THEY WOULD DO is kill and animal and not use some part of it for something. I even knew one guy who'd pick up big game roadkill even if it'd gone bad, just for the hide. Within the game world of Minecraft, the ability of the player to interact meaningfully with the world around them helps to facilite a similar relationship, give and take, at least it should/can in my opinion haha. IE - You kill a goat you get some meat, leather, maybe a horn - but other times the goat knocks you off a cliff and spmething else eats you. Give and take, not look in fear and awe... it lacks connectivity and understanding and if I know my native friends at all they would call it disrespectful, the fact that polar bears/goats etc. have no drops.. Anyhow this comment is to long and I gotta get to work. Thanks for reading my crazy rant
eligabean: (makes every block consumable)
I would actually take this a step further. A decent number of the blocks added to the game recently also serve no purpose other than building. Why add copper with only a few niche uses. Diorite and granite just clog up your inventory. I do not build particularly, a cobblestone or wooden cube is more than enough for me to live in, while 90% of blocks being added simply look pretty or have one use. I'm not saying every block added should be something like the crafter, but the bloat in the game is incredible. So many animals and blocks which aren't worth going out of your way to collect simply baffles me.
I love how Mojang's solution to the community backslash wasn't "let's organize ourselves better so that we can deliver what we promised", it was just not announcing anything lmfao
"Not anoouncing anything" is called managing peoples expectations and not generating too much hype.
@@albal156 I mean, yeah that's the point? They could just, idk, do their jobs and deliver the handful of features that they promised (which they have at least a year to develop) but instead they choose to not promise anything so we can't complain when they internally delay or cancel something. I completely get C&C's delay as it happened during covid but 1.19 genuinely felt like completely mismanagement from the studio and everything after that failed to generate any sort of hype and soon the game will start to fall back to the same hole it was before 1.16 if it isn't already
Ngl, they really went back on track from 1.20 and I really appreciate that.
Finally a video sponsor! Congratulations!
3 minutes ago is crazy... anyway caves and cliffs should be finished by now, BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO WORK OUT THE BUNDLE
Lmao I forgot bundles still aren't technically in the game yet
@@TheMisterEpic you can bundle me bae
@@anony-moon 🤨🤨🤨🤨
@@anony-moon 🤨🤨🤨
"3 minutes ago is crazy" 🤡🤡
Man if I change the version to 1.18 nobody will notice Iam playing 1.18 .
This. It's already been 2 updates since and Minecraft barely changed
Only thing I remember about caves and cliffs is that it's the "way too much copper" update. Or the "you want iron? Forget about mining" update.
Didn't villager and pillager make the iron golem farm the meta for getting iron? But it does seem like C&C really put the nail in the coffin for mining iron
@@CantoniaCustoms Yeah iirc iron farms became really good after 1.14. While Iron Golems could spawn around populated areas of villagers in older versions it was extremely rare, 1.14 pretty much made it a rule that any village has one and that they could be spawned if not.
People aren't mining for iron, how do we fix it? OOH HOW ABOUT WE NERF IRON ORE
How can 5 people make overhauls But a massive corporation can’t make one firefly
It’s hilarious that they said the wardens just “getting too complicated” literally the most barebones boss ever, with almost instakill range attacks.
it has only two attacks, but its behavior is quite unique compared to most mobs
In my opinion, the caves and cliff update was amazing. It really added a lot to the game. In my opinion, it was not the update, it was the vibe. I feel like Mojang started to neglect the community
The vibe
I just found it a bit annoying that the only new ore they had added is basically useless unless you are a builder.
Fun fact, after losing two of their community managers (I'm not clear on the reason why) Mojang has not hired replacements
Minecraft's ore progression is already kinda trash, there's no need for more tools armor and stuff since within 10 minutes you could be already full iron, but i agree, copper should have had more uses. @@Greenhawk4
We just neglected the human race.... cmon samuel your skin desires to store stuff....
I just cant belive that every little update takes six months to a year.
As a game developer, overpromising and underdelivering is the fastest way to get fired. You'd think the developers of the world's biggest game would have learned that by now.
I also think it was a problem that every feature in 1.20 was exclusively decorational and not functional
Calibrated sculk sensors aren't but they're confusing and 95% of players will never use them
@@brevortofficial You right, i forgot about sculk sensors
@@SkrubsTheNeko Your point still stands, adding a feature so complicated that the vast majority of players will never use it is barely better than adding nothing at all
@@brevortofficial And what's sad is that the CSS is one of the only useful things added
its funny bc i remember watching the minecraft live event for caves and cliffs and thinking “wow thats cool that this is all the content we will be getting over the next few years” before even getting the announcement that it was going to be delayed, and i was so right. honestly, i really enjoyed every update so far, and although 1.19 was underwhelming and added chat reporting, 1.20 and upcoming 1.21 more than made up for it. unpopular opinion, but i kinda like the new format of release. it gives me something to look forward to every wednesday, seeing if a new thing is coming out. yeah snapshots have always been on wednesdays, but they just added the content that we already knew was coming.
agreed I’m in a Discord server with a bunch of Minecraft game design nerds, and when Ominous Trials were announced, you should’ve seen how the sparks absolutely FLEW for hours and hours after
It will all be worth it once a billion die and bundles come out... the sickness consumes
*casually forgot chat reporting* (yes im aware of the fact that was 1.19 but its still worth mentioning i feel
I love where he said it’s minecrafting time and Minecrafted everywhere
That's all true. What really annoys me is that they don't make really needed updates like performance and storage because they cannot sell them. But at this point these problems are so apparent that they have to do something about it. Meanwhile they are solving problems nobody ever had (like villager trading) and introduce new problems (like villager transport) with it. It's the lack of direction people are pissed about. Before 1.17 it was "we're improving this and this and this in this update" and now it is more or less "we do random stuff nobody cares about". Also the mod community improved so much that people feel every Create adds more stuff to the game than every major Minecraft release.
Yeah they did over promised, but overall it's still fine. Also is this your first time having a sponsorship?
When I first heard about Caves and Cliffs, I thought it was the greatest update the game has ever seen. Even after the split, I still believed that the update was the most innovative and groundbreaking update to the game. But the split was truly what marred the potential success that Cave and Cliffs had. Not only did it delay certain features, it also wouldn't add everything that was delayed into 1.18, making the split not feel like it was worth it. It also didn't help that the bar of updates was increasing due to the excellent updates that preceded Caves and Cliffs. The Aquatic Update, Village and Pillage, and the Nether Update were all updates that defined Minecraft's peak to the point where I would consider 2018-2021 the Renaissance Era of Minecraft. Caves and Cliffs is what I would also consider a "renaissance-tier" update but that update was unfortunately what would end Minecraft's Renaissance Era.
One thing I realized over time (especially with the mob votes) is that Mojang should never listen to players and just keep doing what they're doing lol
14:19 Cherry groves are my favorite addition to Minecraft and I will not tolerate slander and claims of being "not that interesting"
Well it was not that interesting.
they are not that interesting
I was interested in them for a month and now it is just boring, thats kinda how all of 1.20 was
Looking at your pfp I undertake why it's your favorite.
The cherry tree and wood and everything related to it is beautiful but the biome is extremely bland and uninteresting, I would've preferred cherry saplings to be obtained from wandering traders only.
You missed a major part of what catalysed the backlash. The handling, and rollout, of "chat reporting". The policy for it being supremely vague, the poor implementation that could be immediately exploited to forge the context around a message to turn "yes" to "do you want cake?" to "yes" to something... bannable... The expediated timeframe (two weeks from snapshot to release was the original goal), the buttheadedness in the face of community outcry, the leaks of NDA talks that revealed this had been in the works for almost a YEAR, and this was the poor results of it? Put that, right after community sentiment and goodwill has been tanked by the Wild Update... This freaked the community out. It was no longer a "Maybe they're struggling from biting off too much and we'll see some reflection on it" to "Oh god, they've gone from the chill indie vibes to full EA/Blizzard corporate mode."
And nothing even happened. MC community: (6 month old baby crying)
This all started because they hyped the community and then disappointed every expectation. Edit: besides that, they only update really specific parts of the game, as if theyre afraid of actually doing something decent.
I thought they said that Caves & Cliffs was split because of covid.
it was
Hmmm this seems to have been missed from the video.
It was. But that was not the only reason. It was a massive update, and I could see it getting split even without covid. Covid just made the issue worse.
I am not disappointed at all. I bought the game once 10 years ago and still receive free Updates.
I just hope that these smaller updates are being done so they can spend more time and be more prepared doing a bigger update like an end update
have you seen how much they’re iterating the trial chambers? it’s impressive tbh
1.20.5 as some deep code revamp, and the 1.20 and 1.21 updates seem to be adding a lot of stuff that would fit neatly into future updates (trima, archeology and vaults, for a start).
Bro that phone sponsor, get that bag 💪🏼
TheMisterMoneyMaker $$$
1.18 is probably the single best update in my personal opinion for how it overhauls the terrain. It's a shame that the delays caused so much drama.
Good to see you back for another video. Keep up the great work. This is a awesome video. Have a great awesome day
New theory: Mojang's reason for not adding fireflies is NOT because it's poisonous to frogs, it's just an excuse. Like, remember when Nintendo said they didn't add Waluigi to Mario Kart 7 because he was "too creepy"
8:36 you know what else is poisonous? Cookies 🍪 to parrots 🦜! And Mojang used that mechanic to educate players, perhaps a little too harshly, about that fact to prevent it from happening in real life!
Maybe they used that as an excuse because they wanted to add the ultimate parrot killing weapon.
Another unpopular opinion I heard was about the April Fools updates, asking how the hell do they had the time to do such things but couldn't deliver on Caves and Cliffs
meanwhile me waiting on any update or news on the combat experimental changes that jeb was working on. Bundles are getting forgotten by mojang as well And then they changed the copper bulb, something that was widely praised by the redstone community, to match the even tick delays of the other blocks. and then theres just missed opportunity of the copper golem being added to tie into the trial chambers.
Mobs that dont pass the mob vote are forever put in an "DON'T ADD EVEN IF THE GOVENMENT DEMANDS IT" List, so there was never a chance he'd appear in the trials.
Apparently the reason the copper bulb was changed is due to some guy suggesting the change to mojang
@@TheEmeraldClan yeah apparently it was a “bug”
@@TheEmeraldClan Not even that. It's that Bedrock runs on 10TPS, not 20 💀
The tick delay on the copper bulb was not a big deal in the slightest, it was a fun bonus feature sure but every redstoner cared more about the fact that it is a single block t-flip flop and it still does that. Stop making a mountain out of a molehill jesus christ.
I never understood the logic behind ignoring what the majority of your own playerbase wants.
Because it's clueless. Case in point: TheMisterEpic
Because the fan base doesn’t know what it wants. I’ve seen tons of people say Minecraft is ruined for them, saying that they missed the simplicity of the game. At the same time I’ve seen tons of people say Mojang hasn’t added enough and updates should completely change the game meta every time. I personally believe update aquatic is one of the best updates ever meanwhile, I saw a post on Reddit the other day with tons of likes calling it mid and “not very good”. This community can not and will not ever be pleased
Thank you for the videos, pal! You're doing great. Keep up the good work!
They were so overworked during the nether update that they decided never to work again after that
After the Nether Update they did the biggest update that has ever happened. And the changes made in this snapshot cycle spans over 100 pages.
you forgot to mention account migration, chat reporting and new kids-friendly server rules. these are important.
Important to... what?
what's wrong with chat reporting?
The chat reporting was given its own videos. Look up "Minecraft Java's Dark Future" and "Minecraft Chat Reporting - 1 Year later".
@@toara , these things affected players' perception on the next moves of mojang
@@HasnaynKamran-hl5vz , the way mojang initially handled, it was awful. game-wide moderation and exploits during the development are the main issues with these
Imagine if Mojang never even announced all that caves and cliffs content in the first place?
nothing would really change it would still be 3 really lackluster updates 1 after another
@@fortnitesexman yea but the reason people were mad is because of the massive hype around the caves and cliffs update. The amount of stuff they mentioned only arrived a couple years later. Majority people expected they would be able to make even banger updates than 1.16 but because of those promises only coming years later and splitting it for 3 parts, pretty much killed all the hype and started hate on mojang
The fireflies thing is so weird, just make it so frogs don't eat them... It's like instead of making it so parrots can't eat cocoa beans because they're poisonous they just removed cocoa from the game
Fireflies weren't added for reasons other then the frog thing. What we saw at live was their literal first iteration. They were a feature that didn't work out, but was shown to us at live because they thought it would.
That Redmagic phone looks frickin awesome
11:24 kinda wild to see someone praise 1.19 as even with all the content that it added, it still showed us that Microsoft was 100% willing to take away a game that we paid for. Sad to see that the community has already forgotten about that
I'm looking at the raw content added, most of the chat reporting features and whatnot were likely decisions from higher up executives, not the devs
@@TheMisterEpicyeah but even if in this hypothetical timeline mojang never promised anything during the cave update, everyone would be perfectly within their right to complain about this! Iirc they also added chat reporting around the same time, which people also are perfectly within their right to be upset over! One of the things i disliked about 1.19 was it being branded as the “wild update” when the only thing close were the mangrove features. A biome overhaul update wouldve been so cool and i wouldve loved it! Sadly, that didnt happen, and i expect it wont for a long time now unfortunately. Then there was the promise of fireflies and the birch forest, which sure, we can make the point that “they never promised anything” but can you blame the community for expecting it? As far as i remember prior to this, they would never show “concept art” like this and not end up adding it. Add all of this ontop of their excuse of not adding fireflies due to being poisonus to frogs, I think it kinda makes sense why people started to be more critical of mojang after 1.19! TLDR; even if mojang never overpromised anything related to the cave update, they still wouldve upset alot of people with 1.19 anyways!
@@TheMisterEpic Mojang employees were adamant that they CHOSE to add it themselves, havent got a source but they did confirm it wasnt microsoft pushing for it Unless they somehow legally lied about that publically? idk.
Tbh, I just go into Minecraft greatful they even update the game still, since 2009. Any update will do for me because one day Minecraft won't be updated, so I'll cherish all of it.
….I like your attitude. Very rare for me to see people still be grateful about minecraft even updating no matter how good or bad said update is
Sponsorship from Redmagic is Crazy!
this video made me want to go back in time and tell Mojang about this
"A headphone jack, Thats rare"😂
Wild that this doesn't even mention the chat reporting "feature" that was added in that time frame.
All I remember is when the caves and cliffs update launched without any caves or cliffs
16:15 actually it's 4 years cuz the archeology update and the bundle😮
Their ambitions are far greater than what they can chew. It doesn't help that even now Mojang shoot down most anticipated features out of the blue (copper bulb, mace, etc) which further degrades their reputation today
The Mace was far from ruined and the Copper Bulb was made less interesting but far from useless.
@@witherschat Not useless, but why tf does mojang see positive response and go "Nah, community isn't negative enough as is! lets nuke this from orbit so they get mad again" It was such a fucking pointless change, in the name of 'consistency' (Because mojang is so fucking good at that, glares at bedrock parity and Bud powering) and KingBdogz even said it was fucking INTENDED before they nerfed it. Mojang is just a bunch of apes in charge of the best game on the planet, clearly them having a ballpit and whatever tf benefits they have isn't comfortable enough! I'd like to see them work a day in customer service, cause their jobs are so fucking comfy and they have the nerve to say 'awww we were overworked when adding way less than every other game ever, while still somehow underdelivering despite showing nothing every update' Re-logic does updates way better, when they DO drop an update, it has fucking IMPACT. Even if it takes 4 years to make, everything they tease is like 'hoooly shit that's cool' AND they actually add stuff the community wants and clearly say why they cant, when they cant or dont want to. All of this without shit ass mobvotes every year
@@witherschat while i didn't state that it's ruined (i horribly phrased it), it is true. But the fact that even one of the dev showcased what could've been with wind burst, isn't a good look for them. Same with the (almost) revolution in redstone with 1t delay bulb
@@aleph_zero1 Wind Burst is still just as good if you can start a chain using either a wind charge or 2 dirt blocks. And for the copper bulb, most people stopped caring by now. And since they made it have NO delay instead of 2gt, it’s not as bad as it sounds.
Honestly, the entitlement in this community makes me angry. Remember when games were developed, shipped and then considered done? Mojang just said "nope", and kept developing. We're talking about a video game that has been out for a decade, and it's been receiving free updates since. The amount of care and content Mojang has given us is more than anyone of us should ever expect. Many of us bought the game, when it was far more primitive than it is today. We've gotten so much stuff for free over the years. And yet, people are so ungrateful. Mojang owes us nothing. Even a tiny update should be celebrated, yet people angrily label them as "mid" and call Mojang lazy. - Generally, the gaming community really takes deadlines for granted, and gets enraged when they don't get met. But guess what. Software development is hard. It's filled with hard decisions, unforeseen problems, and a lot of mental work. Doing that right takes its time. Valuable time that is needed to do stuff correctly. Deadlines are one of the biggest reasons for bad product quality in this industry. I appreciate it when a company says "it's done when it's done", because that shows they care about the product. - Game designing is also a creative process. Throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. Lots of iterations, lots of re-thinking. Something doesn't work? Scrap that, let's look for something better. The current plans are not inspiring enough? Keep looking for something more inspiring. These things can happen at any step, be it early ideas or even fully developed features that turn out to be underwhelming. - People take way too much as a promise. The studios revealing that they plan X? Boom, that gets taken as a promise. And if it doesn't work out, people are mad. Even concept art gets interpreted as a promise. If you wouldn't take it as a promise, you would be less disappointed when the feature gets changed. That's all on you. - Because of the way a lot this community acts, it's better for developers to keep their mouths shut and don't say anything about what they're doing. Otherwise disappointment about scrapped features will follow. I, however, can only appreciate transparency from developers. Showing what they tried and decided it doesn't work isn't a sign of failure to me. It's a sign that they played around with the idea and ultimately decided it doesn't work out. It's a sign of effort. A general tip for anyone: Keep your expectations at a sensible level, and don't overhype something. We never know what kind of problems developers run into. We are not entitled to updates, every update is a gift from them to us. A lot of people in this community look like the spoiled kid who starts screaming because the gift they received did not end up exactly what they wanted. That being said, the mob votes are questionable, though. They went through the effort of designing different mobs, but went for a "winner takes all" approach. Giving the community multiple options with only one becoming a reality is a bit of a recipe for polarization. Both because different people want different things (with the vote of others erasing one's chance to see their thing in the game), but also because just a concept does not say enough about how well it will fair in the game. Phantoms sounded really cool in theory, but ended up being really annoying, even after they got implemented pretty much exactly how they were promised. By leaving the choice to the community, they can basically say "it was your choice" and call it a day. Anyway, rant over.
This is exactly how I feel. These people don’t realize how ridiculously entitled they sound. I’ve already seen several people say 1.21 is boring and hasn’t added enough. Do these people really except a massive meta changing update every single time? Updating the game to a massive degree every singe update kills the soul of the game. It’s insane that they act like this
@@Bnz640Reason they act like that is because before the Nether update Mojang would over promise and under deliver in every update they made. Ironically things took a turn during the Aquatic update when they almost done what they promised but forgot to add water logging for all non solid blocks along with lava logging. Regardless they did enough to satisfy the community and eventually built up enough active members until the nether update was announced. This is where things get important. Mojang promised an update that’d completely overhaul the nether bringing significantly more life to it. They planed two new biomes, a few structures and a pigman rework. During the announcement they hinted at adding way more which resulted in community resentment until Mojang gave in. They added a few additional biomes, two new blocks and an extra mob. I will note that the extra mob was not a requested mob but was a work around for the demand of obsidian boats which would be easier to program. Point is the pushback got the community what they wanted when compared to when they didn’t really pushback. If you took any psychology class you know this results in the community becoming more well spoken and more likely to push for content.
@@Bnz640Looking at the Cave update things get drastically worse. Mojang at the time was known for biome votes which is a mini update done in addition to the main update. During one of the MClive or whatever they call it now they offered a vote between three biomes two of them were the swamp and mountain biomes. You see Mojang planed on swamp winning and Jeb even started programming features for a swamp biome mini addition to the update. Mountains won and totally fucked Mojang as they had no plans on how to actually handle the terrain side of it. They delayed it from the update which it was supposed to be released with which disappointed the community but in return Mojang promised to make it a big update. That’s why they tried to do so much in Caves and Cliffs as it originally was meant to be a minor side to a big update which in Mojangs eyes wouldn’t happen until seven or so years three down the line. They literally took a bunch of random cave themed ideas from their ideas bin and implemented them to make the update as exciting as possible. Mojang had to split the update up because of the terrain overhaul was applied to all biomes instead of just the mountains and because they tried making the Warden AI the most advanced in the game. Additionally some features they didn’t test for cross compatibility which forced some features to be delayed indefinitely. Simply put the community isn’t totally at fault it’s mostly the devs making stupid decisions.
They could've still released all of the caves and cliffs content in one update and just delayed it until it was ready
When I heard that they split the update I just thought it would have been better to keep it whole but delayed the update longer
I hate how nowadays you can smell corporatism from the words mojang speaks out to us.
No
Honestly, the cave and cliffs updates were still the best in the game, all the content is ingame and its all high quality. We can move past it now
Well, bundles have yet to be added in an official sense because of Mojang's insistence on keeping a mobile port alive.
@@LloydTheZephyrian Good, java players already have the option to use them if they want… But the game should not implement them until they find a solution
I feel like the trial chambers were a somewhat planned or idea for 1.21 but didn't happen. Kind of like basalt deltas (I think) in 1.16 and job blocks in 1.14. To me 1.21 feels like a Caves and Cliffs part 5 but with some extra fluff thrown in there.
1.21 doesnt include any 1.17 delayed content that im aware of. Why call it caves and cliffs part 5?
You "feel" like? I think your "feelings" (lets be real they are thoughts) sound more like delusions. Trial Chambers are a whole new concept as there hasn't been a large dungeon like that in the Overworld on land where you can go and kill loads of mobs and thats also multiplayer friendly too. You also get top tier loot and a chance to get the new weapon which is very cool.
But Think about the billions of pet frogs that would have had to get their stomachs pumped because some kid went out in the middle of the night, caught some, then fed them to their pet frogs because of something they saw in Minecraft. Oh the humanity😭😭😭😐