New Tires With Wheel Alignment Scam - Avoid Rip Offs
2021 ж. 2 Қаз.
2 641 267 Рет қаралды
Be careful when offered a free alignment check when buying new tires. It's easy to scam you into paying for something that may never be done.
Be careful when offered a free alignment check when buying new tires. It's easy to scam you into paying for something that may never be done.
I'm a ASE Master technician 52 years all phases of repair on any unit but prefer collision work anyway retired now and went through same bull. My back was sore so I went for a oil change soon as they get the car in the service tech shows me a trans dip stick and power steering cap with dirty fluid on them.said I need a trans flush and steering flush.I asked him 3 times sure that's from my car. Yes it is he says. My car is a 2008 hhr. Hhr has no trans dipstick and electric power steering. I said show me where they go so I could see myself.after 10 minutes fumbling around they couldnt.Guess who got a free oil change and filter. Lmao
😆😆😆😆😆
I guess they tried the wrong guy.. I love when people assume you're stupid and know nothing when you're getting a car serviced. I love to play along and see how far they try to get before I reveal my credentials. LOL 😆
😂 that is hilarious, it’s so sad when people don’t know anything about their vehicles.
@@Justforfun-ek7et The sad part is that people will take advantage of other people because most people cannot know everything about their vehicle (or any device, appliance, etc).
👍
As a Technician for 15 years I hate that my industry is pretty well known for being shady. I constantly strive to recommend and perform work that is needed and not recommend anything to any customer that I would not recommend to my own mother. Just to clarify I love my mother
It's hard to be the honest guy
I rely on guys like u and Pete and learn as much as i can on my own…im lucky my mechanic of 32 years has become a family friend over the decades
I agree bro. But that’s why I got into it so I don’t have to trust someone else and I can be honest and actually help people.keep doing good the world needs good people.
Would this be worthy of a lawsuit since you have the proof?
I would simply reclaim my money since they put on the "wrong" tires anyway...
I went to a dealership to get my inspection sticker and the guy said that my headlight was out but they could change it for $30. I was like "funny, it was working this morning. Well, I have a new headlight at home so I'll just take it home, replace the bulb, and bring it right back." I popped the hood and found that the headlight wire had just been removed and tucked up behind my battery.
Lmao
(This has happened since my last comment) I was the new guy at a car dealership. MY first job there was just an oil change on a car with 41k miles on it. This model car was known to have valve cover leaks. So I checked for that, specifically, along with a small list of other known problems, as well as regular safety checks. Brought the paperwork back to the service advisor and the shop manager was there, looked at my paperwork, and flatly said 'It needs valve cover gaskets, they're leaking on this car.' I told him that I knew they were an issue on this car, but they were spotlessly clean. He cussed me and said he would show because I was 'Obviously incompetent'. He looked. He literally said "It does not matter. Write it up as leaking." I refused and was fired on the spot. They wrote it up and gave a report. Little did they know it was a state inspection vehicle. The shop got a $20,000 fine for it. I was caught up in it as I had done the work on it BUT I had taken a pic of my finished inspection report. Odd that the report number that I had did not match the inspection report THEY had. They had re-written the report onto a new service order. Hey! Sometimes you get caught scamming someone that actually writes the rules.....
Oh sweet justice was served! I love this.
I ve witnessed worse scenarios than that.
I have specialized in automotive suspension and alignment for almost 40 years. Here is what actually happened. NOTHING. Look at your total toe measurements on both printouts. They are the same. This is because all the technician did was make the first print with the steering wheel steered slightly left and then straightened the steering wheel and take second print. You were taken advantage of and that’s how it was done.
That's how they got me. I notice no change in alignment. Next time I will stress the fact that it pulls to the left before they do the job.
Thank you 😊
How do you know the steering wheel is straight or off. Maybe the toe is really out on one side. Be careful telling people this stuff. The shop needs to mark up parts to keep the lights on.
@@michaelstrawn3301 because they couldn’t fix that in 4 min
Your right, they didn’t adjust anything just moved the steering wheel and completed the alignment.
Look carefully at the first and second report. They had your steering wheel off center just enough to get the tire to flash red "out of spec" on the machine. When you OK'd the $99 alignment, they just turned the steering wheel a smidge until everything showed green and printed the report. Your left toe and steer ahead also changed by .04 degrees which proves they never put a wrench on the tie rod to adjust your alignment. Total rip off. Make 'em famous. (FYI I'm a former ASE certified automotive technician)
Well done sir.
Ha! You're right. lol. That's awesome. lololol
While growing up, our family was on a trip out west. We stopped for gas and the attendant was looking at the rear of the car. I was sitting in the car, reading a comic when I heard some rattling from the back. I got out and here was the attendant holding an oil pump can, trying to hide it. He put it down and walked over to my father and said it "looks like you have a blown shock. You really need to replace it and should do both." I walked over, picked up the oil can and told my dad the guy had just put it down. My dad looked underneath and told the attendant he was going to call the company (Humble Oil, now Exxon). The attendant screamed get out of here, we piled into the car and left. My dad did call the company later than day, pointing out he owned stock in the company. When we came back though that town a month later on the way home, the station was "closed for repairs". Turned out it was a company location and they were sending in a new manager and looking for all new staff. This was in the late 60's and it taught me to buy at least 1 share in a company that is ripping you off and then call investor relations. You can get results!
One of the biggest mistake high schools made, at least mine, was taking auto shop out of the curriculum. I knew more about cars by the time I was a senior in high school than most people I know today. There are so many scams out there that take advantage of people who have no clue about how their car works. You can ask them what dress their favorite celebrity got married in and they'll know, but you can ask them a basic question about their car and they will stand there with a blank look.
The "total toe" stayed exactly the same at 0.19, before and after. Yes, the right toe went down, but the left went up by the same margin. So to get the "after" to within spec, all that was done was to turn the steering wheel ever so slightly left.
You overlooked a HUGE detail. You might want to pin this comment. :D Look at the total toe before and after. Notice it didn't change? That means that NO ADJUSTMENTS WERE MADE. Let me explain. After watching your whole video and considering the specific details of this case, here's what happened. The tech purposefully set the steering wheel to one side slightly to cause one of (or both if they would have went a little farther) of the toe readings to go red. They made the printout. Once you approved the alignment, they simply centered the steering wheel which centered the toe, which made the toe go green BECAUSE IN THIS CASE, IT DIDN'T NEED AN ALIGNMENT and then called you 4 minutes later and said it was done. They were able to call you 4 minutes later BECUASE NO ADJUSMENTS WERE MADE, they simply centered the wheel and made an "after" printout. Yes, this was an absolute ripoff, fraud, scam in this case. THEY MADE NO ADJUSTMENTS, with a hammer or otherwise. BTW, that is not a thing AT ALL to hit something with a hammer and make something move. I have 25 years auto mechanic experience and have done hundreds of alignments. This is 100% what happened. I'm pretty shocked that they gave you the evidence that proves they made ZERO adjustments. This by all rights should have been a FREE check, since they offer that. In fairness, very very few vehicles on the road would need NO adjustments, that is very rare. In this case, none were needed, and none were done, and you should have been given the free check 100%. Side note, it is 100% possible to move the toe 0.04 degrees. It happens every day. I could easily move something. 0.01 degrees. Also, it is a very legitimate thing to offer an alignment to "protect your new purchase" People are going to be scrutinizing the tires, the mileage they get out of them, the wear, any noise they may make if they wear odd. Doing an alignment will help your cause as a customer if you do have any issues, because you give the tires a best case scenario by doing an alignment, and that now cannot be used by the shop or the manufacturer as an excuse for any issues that arise. Don't fault a shop for wanting to do an alignment when new tires are put on. In this case, sure, fault them, you got ripped off 100%.
He probably just leaned on the car or something else minor but you're right, it didn't need and adjustment. Whether or not he was ripped off depends on the labor rate in his area. I California that's probably fair for setting up the machine. In Oklahoma he'd be screwed out of 50 bucks maybe because I'm thinking the labor rate there is about half what it is in CA just to pick numbers that are close.
@@dwaynestomp5462 you missed a detail. It was supposed to be a free check if it didn't need any adjustments. They faked it being out of spec in order to charge him, and did literally nothing. That is a rip off and honestly, theft
@@horspla2000 No, I think I wrote a wall-o-text talking about that, and why that happens.
I love your analogy. I have specialized in collision and modified suspension alignment for more than forty years. I did reply similar to you but not nearly in as much detail. I learned on a bubble gage in the late 70s as we didn't have computer alignment then. You actually had to understand the angles (caster, camber, toe and steering axis inclination). Now days, many techs only know that green is good and red is bad and many can't understand why it pulls right with positive cross caster when everything is green.
Total toe absolutely correct but what really seals the deal is the before and after steer ahead reading, proves they just moved the steering wheel.
I work at a tire shop and a customer was missing a lug nut. I gave them new for FREE ! Didn’t want anything for just told them they missing one and I replaced it. They were so grateful! So you can get things for free. 😊
lol
You got a kia soul. You got scammed twice.
I'm ASE certified and worked in garages for 15yrs. Every garage I worked for we had to always treat the customers the right way. Had to fix things that scam garages had done. A lot of times never charged customer for it. But I always brought it to their attention before anything was done. I treated my customers the way I would want to be treated. And over a 15yr period I saw and heard way to many horror stories about how customers had been treated at scam shops. Keep educating people. Knowledge is power. God Bless
I work at a shop. We don’t do that. Let it be known, it’s not all shops that do this
Completely Correct I purchased my 4 new tires recently from Costco from the beginning the explained we do not do alignments!! I said ok I’ll take it to my shop new Michelin tires
If a car is in spec, we don't sell an alignment.
I went to Town Fair tire in Seabrook N.H. about the same story. Was shown the alignment was off. Said ok do it. Watched on their security customer cam. men get onto the back of my truck all at same side out near the bumper. 10Min later the drive it out hand me the printout say all set. I looked under the truck nothing had been moved no wrench marks. Went back in told the manager what I found wanted my money back, was told no. Called corporate got my money refunded & They cleaned out the employees. I am a retired mechanic with 43 years under my belt.
Have a low mileage Altima. The dealer was recommending all kinds of servicing. I asked him why they sell vehicles of such poor quality that they need so many repairs.
Actually if you look at your spec on the left wheel what they did was even simpler. While the right toe-in decreased by .04" the left toe-in increased by .04" to .07". They didn't hit just that wheel rim with a hammer, they just nudged the steering to the left.
Good observation!!
I am long since retired from the auto repair business. While I did general repair, I was specifically a front end and alignment specialist. So. the video caught my interest. It often takes more time to drive a vehicle onto the alignment rack, attach the alignment equipment, and check the specifications than it takes to actually make the adjustments in many cases. The "free" alignment check is a marketing tool or strategy to uncover needed additional work. It is not a scam. And it costs the shop time and money. Now, if the work is charged for and not done, that is a scam.
That's exactly what I expect a front end and alignment specialist would say.
Exactly Alan!
My sister had a certified pre-owned Acura MDX which included "free" oil changes for as long as they own the vehicle. They took their car in to get an oil change and when it was done the dealership called them and said "we performed the oil change but your back brakes are basically gone. We highly recommend having them serviced". My sister called me because I know a lot about cars and I told her to tell the dealership thank you but you'll pass. I call the local auto parts store and had them put a set of rear pads on the counter for her to pick up and I would just swap them out which takes minutes. When they went to pick up the car the dealership told them that they would be liable for an accident by releasing a car without operating brakes so they needed to do the work. My sister called me again to tell me this, and I told her to tell them that she'll call the police if they don't give her the keys to her car. So they did, and my sister picked up the set of pads from the auto parts store and stopped by my house for me to put them in. I pulled off a rear tire, and could easily see that the pads were basically like new, and they were being scammed. I took a picture of the existing brake pads next to a brand new pad that we had in the box and you could barely tell the difference. I bothered to drive to the dealership and in the customer waiting area had a loud conversation (with 10 + customers listening in) with the service manager letting him know that customers don't appreciate being scammed like this. They denied the whole thing.
Writing this at 10:55 time stamp. I am a technician at a full service shop. And you are 100% right they didnt adjust anything what they did is just turn the steering wheel a smidge, thats why both toes changed. This really breaks my heart when i hear about shops doing this. Other techs out there reading this, if your boss does stuff like this speak up! And if nothing changes then its time to wheel the toolbox out.. I would have personally turned the wheel a smidge and got it in the green during the alignment check..
I work with this exact alignment system everyday at work. They put the car on the alignment rack and slightly steered the wheel to the left indicated by the steer ahead measurement -0.06, this will cause the toe to increase on the left wheel and decrease on the right. Then once you approved the repair, they steered the wheel back to the center indicated by the steer ahead moving closer to zero just enough to get both toe reading in spec. You can see that the left wheel toe reading decreased and the right increased in the same amount. I work in this field and this is really disappointing to see. Makes us all look like crooks.
There are some great shops and great techs. Always a few rotten apples in any field. We have 2 great alignment shops nearby.
The funny part is that this is exactly what happened, you can clearly read it directly from before and after prints. Yet the author gave us a geometry class to conclude that they hit it with a hammer to align something in gearbox, which has nothing to do with toe. This video is every kind of wrong, both from mechanics' and author's side.
I've done alignments 15 years. I've seen this at Goodyear. The before measurements the steering wheel was turned to the left, then straightened for the current measurements. No alignment was done, the machine was manipulated to make it look like an alignment was done.
I was just going to comment the same thing. The total toe is the same.
The Honda dealership in my area does the same thing. My wife went to do an oil change and came home with a $190 charge. They charge her for rear brake greasing. I replaced the rear brakes myself, and it wasn't even touched at the dealership.
They did one adjustment. They moved the steering wheel slightly. That's it. $99 to bump the steering wheel to slightly straighter ahead.
Exactly, my thought, the total toe is the same! 10:40
While I’m not disagreeing that you got scammed, because I believe you did. Just not the way you think. My first disagreement is with your argument that you can’t adjust 0.04 degrees. I do alignments all the time and I spend the time to always get them within 0.01 degrees on either side, it’s pretty easy to do. Unfortunately I can tell from your before and after sheets that all they did was turned the steering wheel a tiny amount. Your alignment was fine and didn’t need to be adjusted. Don’t go back to those scammers. I think it’s good to be skeptical and ask questions, but there are good shops out there, I firmly believe the one I work at is honest, otherwise I wouldn’t work for them.
I’m in the same boat . I do alignments all the time in just a few minutes. But you were ripped off. They just spun the steering wheel like 1/32 of a turn
I also have disagreement with the 4 mins of work problem. If they already have it on the rack and it is a small adjustment, then 4 mins is realistic too. No mechanic that gets flat rate is going to ever take .1 for an alignment. Just because I can do the job in 4 mins doesn't mean that everybody can. They clearly did just turn the wheel here or push on the tire enough to turn them in, but he isn't getting the clear picture on what an alignment is either. I often make fine tuned adjustments on alignments too. I however aim for a lot closer to perfect as opposed to good enough lol.
Yup. Total toe and steer ahead angle says it all. The only thing they did is turn the steering wheel a little bit. They didn't adjust anything underneath the car.
I would think with larger tires and wheels the more the toe or other aspect of the alignment would be of greater affect on the edges of the tire and ware. Down to the 0.01. I know that some factory alignments for some large truck manufactures are waaaay off. But less than what Pete was talking about and the tires seem to get wore even quicker. But that’s also a different application maybe. With heavier weights per axel.
All small garages are rip off places unless you personally know them .. I always get a second opinion ..
I'm an ASE certified tech,brother all they did was turn the steering wheel to make it look "off",then nudged back to get it back in spec,witnessed many times.
Me too, and you are 100% correct :) or just pushed the wheels a bit to the left :P
@@axle.australian.patriot yep....
Audi Tech here. I can confirm that many Techs at our dealership are honest people who will only recommend things your vehicle needs which recommended during the MPI (Multi Point Inspection). Whether that be brakes, tires, wipers, bushings or whatever. Now, on the other hand, we also have some very dishonest technicians who only care about making money. Those techs lie their asses off during the MPI. I know of a specific technician who always sells a brake job on almost every vehicle he works on. If you're a tech you know very well just how abnormal that is. I'll say again, to sell a brake job on almost every vehicle you work on is IMPOSSIBLE. One day his gravy train took a nasty turn for the worse. A customer who actually inspects their own vehicle felt something was wrong with the measurements the tech provided on the MPI, so they asked the service advisor to see the brake pads. The service advisor walked the customer into the shop and sure enough, the tech got called out for the liar he is. Sadly, when it was all over you would think the service manager would reprimand the tech for his dishonesty, but that never happened. Why? because he makes the shop too much money scamming customers. Many of us at the shop are not in agreement with this way of conducting business. I personally believe in simply doing what is right. If I happen to upsell a brake job then great, if not oh well. I simply finish that RO and move on to the next. Keeping yourself moving, getting these vehicles in and out is how you make money, not by scamming customers. Some people just don't want to work hard, they would rather go down the shady path of dishonest work for easy money. On behalf of the many honest technicians, I'm so sorry if any of you were ever a victim of a scam like this.
When I was a service manager in a large shop, I would go out and inspect almost every car that went in for work. And if I didn't inspect it I at least road-tested it either before or after the work was done
Yes! The automatic need for an alignment with new tires was tried with me. When I pushed back they backed down. P.S., I’ve gone 48,000 miles with no need for an alignment. Tracks perfectly.
The car tracking perfect doesn’t necessarily mean that your alignment is perfect. Hitting potholes in the road can knock a vehicle out of alignment. And while nowadays many if not most cars do not have adjustable camber or caster. What you do if tires are wearing etc. Is to buy a camber kit or whatever component or kit necessary to get your readings right.
@@johnrussell2918 well, from my driver point of view, it’s good! And yes, I’m cognizant of things that can knock it out of alignment and avoid them. Tires wearing perfectly.
As an alignment tech I can tell you that you can move the number by that much just by putting your hand on the wheel with about 3 lbs of pressure. Note total tow was in spec it's steer ahead that is out of spec, that means that the steering wheel was not centered. He is correct it didn't need an alignment.
Haha that's what I said. They just turned his steering wheel. Pretty good scam.
Right on
Had alignment done. 2 times now. The steering wheel is off. What gives?
@@seanwolford5186 The shop tech was not using easy toe. If the steering wheel is not centered before you start the alignment machine should have you center it before you adjust the toe. If you use the machines functions, it works as long as the machine is in calibration.
@@seanwolford5186 is it just off center or is it actually pulling also?
I noticed that your car was .012" on the right side after the alignment (vs .016"), but was .007" afterwards on the left, when it was .003" before, which seems an awful lot like they literally just turned the steering wheel a hair, or re-zeroed the measuring pads and retook the alignment measures to get the right numbers.
My local BMW dealer during a recall appointment did a “complimentary” evaluation of my car. They sent me a well produced video telling me I needed $4800 of work. This consisted of new wiper blades that I replaced 2 months ago, as well as 2 oil cooler gaskets that were replaced 1 year ago as well as brake pads that do not need replacement yet! A total scam!!!
Pete, Wish I saw this video b4 getting new tires. I was told they had to order the tires. Suppose to have tires installed, they said they were delivered to another location. They gave me a FREE upgrade at no charge. Made an appointment. Waited for my car, then they said I also got a free alignment inspection and my front tires were out of alignment. For $100.00 they could align my front end. I told them no. Making appointment to see a mechanic I trust. Next time I will be better prepared. Thanks
1. I can adjust it .01 at a time. 2. I can do most toe and go alignments in 7 minutes. A toe set is super fast. 3. They did rip you off. Total toe didn't change. They just turned the wheel slightly and took a printout.
100% correct.
This right here. Done 1,000s of alignments in my career. I wouldn't have told him he needed an alignment. That's about the only thing I agree with in this vid, though.
Just read your comment and your right, you can do it quick but 8 mins between calls is a little suspect haha.
Agreed....from pro to pro thanks for your honesty..... its time to put a stop to this nonsense
.006” out of spec doesn’t need adjustment.. Ripped.!
The obvious item to check for a poor wheel alignment would be the old tires! Inner or outer tread wear CAN be a sign on toe in, or out alignment. Fact, if the old tires are wearing evenly across the entire tread width, there is VERY likely no issues with the alignment. Great video.
Exactly!
Did alignments for gm dealer for 25yrs if your lucky at tire shops they will set toe and tracking and center steering wheel usually they do nothing they don't want your tires to last they sell tires if tires wear out quickly they have insurance to cover replacement they win either way
Went to a Quick Oil change and they came out and said my air filter was bad, I told them I replaced it 3 weeks earlier, he was looking for a place to hide..
And that's what you get for going to a quick-lube place. Take it to a dealer.
@@tech653 Dealers are crooks too, took my Acura to the dealer I bought it from and they said I needed new front brakes for $800.00. I only use OEM brake parts and they said they didnt have them in stock. I ordered online, took the wheels off and found I had about 60% left. You cant trust anyone..
@@Rick-tb4so You have just had some really bad luck, I guess. I've been working for dealerships for the past 25+ years, and every service manager I have worked for harps on not selling something the customer doesn't need. That's the reason I've been so successful over the years. Once my customers learn I'm not going to rip them off, they trust me. I have people that drive from more than 150 miles away for me to work on their vehicle. That's the way this business should be. People screaming about one or two bad experiences makes it really hard to attract new customers. Find another dealer. Unfortunately, that may be the only resolution.
Excellent video- thanks so much for the info! As for those "125 Point Inspections" - after one of those I done to me a couple of years ago, they presented me with a 10-page print out of everything which needed to be "fixed" and the total was over $10K! Of course I simply paid for what I actually brought my vehicle there in the first place, and left. But the next day, when I attempted to start my car --- DEAD BATTERY! I called the shop told them to come and tow it back to their place and fix it for me; and they said, NO - we need to charge you X $ for a tow first - and I blew my top. I called AAA and had to wait for them to finally arrive and do the jump start. Figured out why the battery went dead, too -- the "Inspector" from the repair shop had turned ON ALL THE INTERIOR LIGHTS TO CHECK THAT THEY WERE WORKING - THEN LEFT THEM ALL ON. It was the middle of the day and I hadn't noticed that some lights were staying on inside my car after I parked it in the garage. Some of those lights were not of the type designed to turn off automatically, or, the switch was in a position which left them ON and had to be manually turned off. Stupid free inspection. I'll never allow it again.
I am a master certified technician. I have aligned thousands of cars. Your alignment was not adjusted. Not at all. Look at the left side toe before and after. Do you see that the left side is also moved .004 to the right? All the "technician" did was bump the steering to the right. This moved both tires to the right bringing them both into what the machine thinks is aligned. When you see the numbers in green that indicates the steering is within the manufacturers specifications. Red indicates they are outside of those specifications. The alignment technician could have made an adjustment of .004 degrees if he had wanted to, it IS possible. But he didn't he just bumped the tire to the right moving the steering to the right and took a snapshot. Most of the so called alignment technicians have no real idea of what they are doing. They simply turn wrenches until the numbers are green. If you actually gave they a test asking them to describe what, Caster, Camber and Toe are referring to and how they affect tire wear and vehicle steering, they would fail miserably.
Thanks for explanation Tom!!
The guy that made the video has no clue. You sir are exactly correct.
25 years ago I owned a Mercedes. On that car I had free services up to 100 000km* (*of course without consumables and wearables like oil, brakes and so on). At 50 000km they changed a wheel bearing without notifying me in advance. I asked for the old bearing and they told that had allready gone into the trash, but then they tried to tell me that it was so bad that it would have fallen appart in the next few km and they had to chenge it for safety reasons...yeah...no, not really...I had no problems up to that point with noises or whatsoever with this bearing. So I told them; no contract, no old defective bearing, well, that means no money. I gave them the choice of chenging it back to the old one but they decided just to leave the new one in. At the end they didn't got me, but if they get just every second custommer that is to much.. Then the next free oil change on that car: I off course went to anotheer Mercedes dealer. I left the car and went away. 5 minutes later they called. He told me i needed new brakes all around. Price (25 years ago) over 1400$. I was a bit surprised and asked why exactly they have to be changed, so he explained me that the pads are completely worn down and the rotors are at the manufacturers minimal spec. Hmmm, I was more than surpreised so I asked him to explain me how this can be...because one week before, I changed from summer too winter tires and while doing that I looked at the pads. They where at around 70% in the front, 80% at the back, so how can it be that these are worn down within a week??? He didn't expect that I knew how worn the pads where, but then he started with well the pads are ok, but the rotors are (now) below the minimum...and normaly we need to do both together...and for most customers it doesn't makes sense to have the car in for service and then come back in one or twotausend km to change the brakes...so we normaly do it for the coinvenience of the customer. I then told him to just leave my brakes alone and do the oil change and that's it. But he wasn't finished yet. He then started on the security line...look, if you drive and in two or three weeks you kill a child becaus your brakes are faulty you would regret not to have done the brakes today, wouldn't you...now I was really surprised, or should I say pissed off? After I had swallowed that he wanted to feel me guilty not spending that money, I just told him to put on these wheels and leve my car alone. I'd be there in 5 minutes and pick it up and have somebody else do the work on my car including the oil chenge. He then finally agreed to just do the oil change, I went home and drove this pads and rotors for another 40000km (in the swiss alps, what in combination with an automatic transmision quite hard to brakes is) and changed them then for not even 400$ and the rotors where still a hair over the manufacturers minimum spec. Since then I allways do everything I can myself. There it used to have great mechanics around, unfortunately nowadays the good ones who did a great job for a decent amount of money are probably all getting old and retire...so at least my experiences
Service scams are worse than ever. I recently took a vehicle to the dealer to have them fix three recals. It has around 35K miles. They called me and said it should have a four wheel alignment. I recently rotated the tires so I know there is no abnormal wear and it's not pulling. They also said the manufacturer recommeds coolant service, radiator flush, and fuel intake cleaning. I checked the manufacturer recommendation for coolant and it was 10 years or 100K miles. I asked the service advisor if the intake service was a bottle of something they pour in the tank. He said no and spouted some mumbo jumbo about cleaning the entire intake system to remove carbon and that it would result in better gas mileage. There was nothing in the manufacturer recommended maintenance about this. The total of these three items was well over $500. I passed on all three. I feel sorry for people who don't know much about cars because they should be able to trust that the dealer is only recommending service they actually need.
A relative worked at Firestone as a manager. They always wanted him to do unnecessary work to get more money. Also the mechanics wanted to do unnecessary work to earn more, because mechanics worked on a percentage of revenue. He quit from a lot of places because he is honest. ,
Tell your relative , thank you! I know it's difficult being honest. Character is expensive. I know the relative sleeps at night.
Dealerships, big brand franchises and quick lubes all do it. Best way to get honest quotes and no upsales is finding a reputable independent shop. The last independent shop I worked in was a little more expensive like 10-15% more than the average but they prided themselves on honesty and quality. The last dealership I worked on was all about upsales and quantity. That’s one of the reason I laugh when people brag about their cars being dealer maintained.
This is why I learn to work on my own cars, got tired of arguing with this liars.
I owned an alternator/starter rebuild shop for 15 years and most of my customers were repeats as we gave the parts back to the customers afterwards and did the tests in front of them. If we needed lest parts to repair the unit I would drop the quoted price to reflect it. We also have various levels of the repairs too. I almost always replaced the brushes and bearings as part of the costs. Honesty was a great selling tool. I had customers come from as far as 75-80 miles away because they knew I wouldn’t screw the over.
We had a minor recall on my wife's Minivan, and we took it back to the dealership where we bought it. When we went to pick it up, they said the brake pads were unsafe to drive with less than 10% of the pads left and would need rotors also. It would be a total of $800. I phoned my usual mechanic of twenty years. He checked his records and told me he had done a brake job on my wife's minivan two months prior. I declined their offer, then they said they couldn't legally let the vehicle out of the shop in that unsafe condition or they would be liable. Another call to my lawyer and a few words from him, and I was on my way to my guy's shop. He checked and the pads were almost new. Not only did they lose a customer, but also my company's fleet sales.
I had a friend who went through a similar bs, the VW dealership refused to let him have his car back because his safety check was expired, so he just got in his car & drove off!
It's the same with Pepboys, where i bought my tires. I was charged $80+ for four tire valves. When I got the car back and checked on the new tires, I noticed that the tire valve caps were missing. I then went back and asked for them. It was handed back to me. And as I was putting it on, I noticed that there was paint on the tire valves. Paint because I painted my rims. I went back and asked for a refund. They were offering to replace it with new ones, but $80+ refund is a better deal. And I also dont trust them to touch my car again. I wrote a review of my experience with that store. I can't imagine how much they are making out of people who don't know much about cars or are too trusting.
I have been ripped off by every automobile dealer in my city, and most repair shops as well. The one told me they did an oil change. I pulled the dipstick right there, the oil was dirty, could hardly see the dipstick through it, and informed them, no they hadn't done it. No apology, nuthin, they just took it off my bill and said there we adjusted the bill.
Toe before was .03 and 0.16. Total toe was .19. After toe was .07 and .12 total was still .19. They turned wheel left printed before the turned little to right and printed after.
THIS!!!!!!!!!!
That was done on a Hunter alignment machine, which I'm very familiar with. What I noticed was the "total toe" never changed @ .19. The L side was .07 and the R was .16 originally. The spec was .10 on each side for a total of .20. The only thing that would have happened if they did nothing was maybe have the steering wheel off-center on a straight road. You can clearly seen the steer ahead is off in the before measurement. All the tech did was move the steering wheel slightly to the right and "VOILA"! It's in spec!😆
I totally agree, I have this problem after getting a "wheel alignment". the steering wheel is not straight. so disappointed....
What proves they ripped you off is that the LH side toe out increased the same amount that your RH side toe out came in, basically they bumped the steering wheel to the Left just enough to get both toe outs to turn green.
Before you drop your car off to get tires installed, just look at the wear on your existing tires. If the wear is even all the way across on all 4 tires, you don't need an alignment. Don't let them tell you different. If you tires have worn evenly, you don't need it.
Exactly right ! Indeed even if your tyres are worn, just slightly unevenly, but over a very long time/distance, it might not be worth getting a wheel alignment done. We used to have a great neighbourhood Tyre Centre just down the road. (Recently got demolished and replaced with modern day slum tiny apartments to rent. No parking, no garage etc). The Tyre Centre had been there for decades. One time I took mum's wee hatchback in for new front tyres. I pointed out that as the wear on one of the front tyres was slightly skew-whif, I asked if a wheel alignment was advisable ? He said "No", because it had taken literally tens of thousands of kilometres of wear, to make even that small a difference, it wasn't worth it, and that with a front wheel drive car, running on contoured roads, some tiny measure of uneven wear was to be expected. . Note here we have a mild climate so no such thing as Road Salt or Winter tyres, plus tyre rotation is simply not a commonly done thing here. It's generally recommended that tyres be left in their original location for their lifespan.
@@KiwiCatherineJemmafunny thing about alignments, or like a lot of things in life, they get worse over time, so if your tires that are on your car now are showing signs of abnormal wear, get the alignment done and save yourself some money.
This is such a shame; it is for this reason that I rarely ever leave my car anywhere. I wait and watch. I took my daughter and her car to a Jiffy Lube for a state inspection - it was a ‘teaching moment’ where I wanted her to understand the process. A few minutes later, someone comes to us with an air filter in hand. He proceeds to ‘suggest’ that we might want to replace it. I immediately recognized the filter as the one I had replaced 2 days earlier - EXCEPT that it had a sprinkling of what I knew was dirt from the ground (right alongside their building)! I took hold of the filter, examined it, turned it over, tapped it on the ground to remove the loose dirt, all the while telling him that this was not a part of a state inspection and that I had replaced this filter 2 days ago. I then asked if he had removed it properly or if he forced the box open as I walked out to the car and replaced it myself while chiding him for removing it improperly and intentionally throwing dirt on it and trying to sell me something I didn’t need. I didn’t curse or yell (I wanted to), but I did say ‘you should be ashamed of yourself for disparaging your reputation in such a way - just to sell a $20 air filter’! I doubt that your parents brought you up to lie to people - I know mine didn’t - nor did I raise my children that way. And today, of all days, I brought my daughter here to get acquainted with your shop… He sheepishly stood and listened to my rant - then, just as sheepishly, apologized. They finished the inspection - and, no-charged me. It turned into much more of a teaching moment for my daughter than either of us expected.
They didn't use a hammer... they simple nudged the steering wheel a bit. You can see that the 0.04° change that gets it into spec, happened on BOTH sides in the same direction!
One of the problems I think most people have is I’ve never had a shop offer a free alignment check. So when I’ve gotten new tires (about 80,000 miles) I’ve asked for them to do an alignment and paid for it because I don’t know what the alignment looks like to begin with. So once I’ve committed, it may need nothing, but I’m still paying for it to get the before and after results. It may be out it may not be, but I don’t know that until they put it up on the rack and I don’t know of a respectable shop that is going to put your car on the alignment rack, set everything up for “free”.
Of course they could adjust by 0.006”, or any other amount. It’s only a screw thread on a track rod end so stepless adjustment perfectly possible, no big hammer required. Of course they didn’t do this, as someone already mentioned total toe is unchanged so all they did was tweak the steering wheel position, retake the measurement and print out the results, if you don’t take them up on their “offer” simply bin the “after” page. It’s called upselling and is rife, forget about “reputable” here in the UK main dealers are keen on it, typically pick on brakes or other safety critical areas.
Shops that i worked at doing wheel alignments, when its barely requiring adjustment we would just do those minor adjustments for free. Its not that serious. Its better to build relationships with customers to have them for long run than to do quick scams like that.
My cars go multiple hundreds of thousands of miles and I've never needed to get any of them aligned. Except for our old caravan that had the inner tie rods replaced. Tires always wear evenly and last 80-100K. If I don't see strange wear, I'm not getting an alignment. Now I take just the wheels in to the shop. Avoids up selling, waiting around, scams, stripped lugs. It's the way to go.
one pothole can push it one way, the next one can push it the other way
Alignment can be common in sandy or winter environments for this exact reason. Bearings, ball joints, tie rods, bushings ect all get the brunt of salt and corrosive chemicals and will need changed much MUCH sooner than a more mild and cleaner area. For example. When I lived in Texas I had not once ever replaced a ball joint or tie rod end. When I moved to PA, every vehicle I owned whilr there had needed some sort of bushing, leaf hanger, A arm, bearing, ball joint or tie rod. There's a reason vehicles require a yearly inspection there.
Last 80k-100k? I barely get 20k
@@pii-chan8804 might be PA's roads, I know around Philadelphia the roads absolutely suck, it's incredible. My GM cars never needed any kind of suspension work and they lasted 15-20 years in northern Illinois. The caravan though, needed inner tie rods.
@@bikeman123 you may be taking corners too fast on 40K mile tires. On ours I rotate them when they are about 1/2 worn down, the fronts always wear so I shift them to the back. Usually takes 40-50K miles. Then when those wear, it's another 40-50K and time for replacement. These are the wife's and kid's cars. Mine, when I commuted and drove the highway, could get 110K on a set. We drive pretty conservative though.
Do not leave your car at the shop. Whatever they tell you, they need to put it in writing. Anything free, refuse, say no! And don't rebuild, repair any part that is not broken. Also do not do any free inspections. Tell them that your dealer and mechanic does that. Just change the tires, balance and rotate if necessary. That is it. Period!
I used to be a VW/Audi tech and did alignments. I used to hate doing them because it was such a pain to set up the machine. 90% of the time spent was the "checking" and we charged for it whether you needed any adjustments or not. Most dealership techs work on "flat rate", which means they get paid a certain amount of time for a job regardless of how long it takes. In our case, an alignment paid 1.5 hours to check and the adjustments were more time if they were needed. There is no way they could have gotten us to do checks for free. The first time I heard of this checking alignment for free deal at tire shops, I was really surprised and glad I wasn't the tech having to waste my time checking the alignment on a car that I just took 4 evenly worn tires off of. But, these shops probably pay their techs by the hour, so the techs don't care. The shop is gambling that if they spend their tech's time checking the alignment, they will get enough cars that are enough out of alignment that they can charge the 99 bucks and make up for the wasted time. So yeah the tech probably leaned on your tire, got the thing to go green and hit print. Those machines are incredibly accurate and just bumping the car can make them change. Like I said - it's a big pain in the butt and I hated it. Part of the reason I got out of that trade was all this underhanded stuff that goes on and the up-sales and being pushed to sell stuff customer's didn't really need. That tech probably knew that you would have been fine and had no tire wear with that little bit of tow, but he was probably trained to sell that alignment if that machine had any red to make up for the time checking....Wow that was really long winded but this struck a nerve for me as the guy on the other end of it for years.
If you knew how to read alignments, which I don't expect the average car owner to do, you will see that total toe did not change. They just turned the steering wheel to move the tires 0.04 degrees. That is why left toe and steer ahead also changed 0.04 degrees. You were scammed and you have it in writing. I would be back to that shop and get a refund on the whole bill.
If you look closely at the toe before and after you can see that all they did was turn the steering wheel to the right a tad. The original .03 on the left turned to .07 which is .04 degrees to the right. Same with the right side. Started at .16 and ended up at .12 which is .04 degrees. They literally moved the steering wheel right by .04 degrees. The total toe did not change. The total toe would've changed if they had adjusted one side. The chalk probably was there from the factory. Most factories mark certain parts they've tightened so they don't spend time tightening the same thing twice. I have been an alignment tech and I can tell you that I am a perfectionist and it usually took me a good hour to perform a perfect four wheel alignment and I could get each wheel spot on to +-0.1 degrees
Where do i go for a someone to rotate and change a tire i got ripped off at my subaru dealer where i bought a new subaru and at 14,000 miles said i needed new tires and a wheel alinment. Im in a $2,000.00service plan. So had to go along tires looked good to me . And now my new tires are always needing air
Jesse, you nailed it.
Total toe before 0.19°. Total toe after 0.19°. Look at the 0.1° changes in camber and the steer ahead in addition to the .04° toe change on the other side and you realize they just bumped the steering wheel to put it out of spec and back in. 35 year industry veteran, ASE Master certified in Automotive and Medium/Heavy trucks, currently an automotive instructor. Is the shop scamming people, yes. Could this video be half as long, absolutely.
Thank you for posting this, I noticed it too. steer ahead and the degree changes on both sides added up evenly...
MY 2012 FUSION PULL hard to left and right on uneven streets also pulls to right and left for no apparent reason, it has a lot of positive caster ,you sound like an expert with a lot of experience.
@@markthomas9703 if you car “pulls hard” in either direction it’s most likely toe out and doesn’t have enough camber. Additionally the electronic power assisted steering relies on a steering angle sensor that is likely out of calibration or perhaps faulty.
@@TheGT350Garage if it is faulty do you get a check engine code.Thank you very much for your reply and info.
@@markthomas9703 EPAS codes are C codes for “Chassis” and require a fairly competent “higher end” scan tool that can read manufacturer data and manufacturer specific codes.
It's actually probably worse than expected... the total Toe in was .19* before AND after which means they just turned the steering wheel slightly to balance the measurements right to left and they likely did ZERO actual adjustments to the car's alignment! 🤣
Worked at Tire America for 3 years in management. This is super common. All that is done is a slight turn of the steering wheel. If you notice on the after spec, the toe changed on the left wheel by the exact amount that the right was repaired. The wheel was simply moved back. This was a big problem at our shop. I tried to get several people fired for pulling this stunt. Finally got one guy fired and immediately another store hired him. Can't win. Also, to screw with camber or caster all you have to do is loosen the alignment head from the rim enough to get what you need. Save that as the before. Put it back, bam alignment is done. I have not had a vehicle aligned on any car I have owned in 25 years because I know I am most likely going to get ripped off.
As a mechanic who does alignments, I call potholes "job security" lol joking, but at the shop were I work we are as honest as we can possibly be. If we are in the wrong for something, we admit to it and learn what we did wrong and how we can prevent that from happening again. Also, when we do a job that wasn't done right we happily refund the money and learn from out mistakes
Great video. To avoid this, and having them over tighten my lugnuts with no torque wrench/stick, I just bring the wheels and new tires and not the car.
Glad you checked. They were probably close to being snapped off. It really bites you when you have to change a tire on the side of the road and all you have is that little factory lug wrench which is only10-12" long at best.
Biggest scam was expanding 2 minutes worth of info into 20+ minute video for extra KZhead ad money. 😉
I'm glad for my dad's wisdom. He always told me unless you saw unusual wear on the tires, don't buy into an alignment. He had a work vehicle that needed an an alignment one time, so he showed me what to look for. Valuable lesson...
Exactly. Unless they can show you unusual or excessive wear before removing the tires, you’re better off not getting one. I was actually given a “free” alignment once from a shop I thought I could trust. The steering wheel was crooked when I drove away. It took the tech 2 tries to get it back to where it was when I brought it in. Needless to say, I didn’t pay for the alignment nor ever return.
I went in for tires on an old farm truck that was going the crusher 2 days later ( tire were for another truck) but this truck wasn’t on the road being used at the time and had matching wheels size. So i drove in this total “pos” for tires and they offered a “free safety check”. They came out 2 hrs later with 4 tires and a laundry list of repairs needed, or they weren’t going to let me drive it home! I read through their laundry list of shocks ball joints tie-rod ends, steering box adjustment, lights, brakes, and on and on! But never did they mention the cracked frame at the steering box, rotted out floors broken frame mounts or the crack that was present between the cab and bed of the truck! Their bill was $8500.00 for all needed repairs! I said no thanks, pointed to my roll back outside, and told them that they had missed major safety issues and if they proceeded to keep my truck they were in for more trouble then they were expecting! Needless to say the shop called the police to report me for driving an unsafe vehicle, wanted me to pay for the tires, which I did, but still insisted that all other repairs had to be done by their shop before it could be released! Police came shop manager stated I was threatening him and the shop, and he had it on video! So I looked at the officer, and asked to see the video ( that didn’t exist) with a big smile on my face. I told the police officer what was going on, the plans for the tires, and the fact that my roll back was parked outside and this truck wasn’t going on the road ever! The police officer informed the manager the truck needed to be released. Five months later shop is under investigation for misrepresenting repairs, submissions of double billing and money laundering! Can you say karma is a b!
I doubt they said you couldn't drive you car home. That's illegal. Stop making up stories.
@@Normal1855 not illegal to not allow an unsafe vehicle on the road, illegal to not release it after the bill has been paid for the actual service rendered, 4 tires mounted and balanced! This vehicle was towed in, and parked down the lot, and was being towed out as well.
@@Normal1855 They probably did, I've worked at dealerships, independent ships where they tried this. They lost everytime....
I do my own oil changes and years ago I needed an A/C belt. I brought my car in after I recently changed the oil and had a different shop replace the transmission fluid. I got a call later asking if I wanted an oil change and transmission service because the fluids looked dark to them. I declined and never went back
Another thought. My wifes car went through tires to 2/32 in less than 27k miles. The tire manufacturer would not offer any remedy without "proof of regular rotations" and alignments." They are all evil beings.
These kinds of scams are seen in all sorts of things, not just vehicle maintenance and repair. How many times have you made an appointment for one of those $79 A/C or furnace inspections or tuneups? And how many times did they try to sell you a new furnace or A/C after telling you the current ones are near their end of life and you don't want them to fail at a bad time. I've had one tell me I had a refrigerant leak. I asked him to show me where it was, and he said I can't show it to you but the refrigerant is low and the leak could be anywhere in the system. I had him "top off" the refrigerant and told him if it was low again next year I'd have it repaired/replaced. That was six years ago, and I've never had anyone tell me the refrigerant was low during those six years, and the unit is working fine. So the best advice for consumers is to always be cynical, and to get a second opinion before agreeing to additional work. The Latin saying “caveat emptor” means "let the buyer beware", and it has been around for a long, long time for a very good reason.
I've worked on and off for dealerships my whole adult life. The scams from the salesman, the sales managers, to the service manager, to the service writers. The S-+t I used to see, and hear, would make peoples jaws drop. I've even listened to sales guys laughing about how hard they screwed a customer. I've seen service writers fired for literally doing their job. Fired only because they weren't pushing and scamming people into buying things they didn't need. Most dealerships, tire shops, etc have massive overhead, most employees don't make much money. The managers, and GMs are the only ones that make REAL money, and do the least amount of work. Their job is to push everyone else around to make THEM money.
Well said and spot on.
@@cardo1111 The worst one was a Dodge dealership I worked at. The best one was a Honda dealership. They all do it though. It got really bad during the pandemic.
I have a 2020 civic sport touring…. I had hit a curb going 45mph when I lost consciousness due to an infection in my neck by my carotid artery…. of course I went to go get my alignment checked and I got my suspension checked and all that to make sure everything was okay….. there’s bound to be something off when that happens…. I went to my dealership… I was told by the advisor that they weren’t able to get it in alignment due to rocker panel damage and was told to take it to their collision center to have it looked at… which doesn’t make any sense… my rocker panel has nothing to do with my alignment…. Which is exactly what I was told because they were HONEST…. I took it to my old mechanic who does frame and axle and suspension repair that’s his forte…. He did my alignment with no issues ….. no rocker panel damage and AGAIN he said it would have nothing to do with your alignment…. he told me to call them and tell them they didn’t do anything and I want my money back because at that point I took off 2 days of work and I paid for 2 alignments in a 4 day period of time smmfh…so I called the service manager (he hates me 😂) and told him just that… he says “let me go audit the machine and I’ll call you back….” I’m like great they aren’t going to do shit…. Well to my complete surprise he called back and said AND I QUOTE! This is a honda dealership….”you’re right…. We didn’t do anything I’ll refund it back to your card…..” I about peed my pants I was so surprised 😂I wish I would have effin recorded that conversation! and I told my mom ya know I wonder how many times a day they “dont do anything…” and get peoples hard earned money for doing nothing…. If it wouldn’t have been for me being worried and panicked and looking into it they would have gotten away with that shi…. Took them two visits to install a new taillight…..😂 I WILL QUESTION EVERYTHING they do….. they’ve messed up too many simple tasks that a 5yr old could handle for me not to question them…… they’re absolutely full of it
I personally know a mechanic that works at a local auto repair shop in Orange County, California. When I asked him if it would be a good idea for me to take my cars there for service, based on our friendship, he said "if you and I want to remain friends, absolutely do not take your car(s) to where I work. It's a total ripoff joint but they pay well and I can't find another job at the moment." SMH
I was working in a dealership on the lube rack when the boss told me to do their standard 60,000 mile check. I fond nothing needing any immediate attention. I found some VERY slight seepage on the rear differential. That was it. I noted the slight seepage and said "Does not need immediate attention" giving the owner the option if they wanted to keep it immaculately clean. The boss read my report and came storming out before I got it off the rack. Of COURSE there was something wrong, there ALWAYS is" he was saying. "These engines are noted for intake manifold gaskets leaking so it needs an intake manifold gasket!". "No. to is not leaking at this time". He sneered and looked so he could prove me wrong. He could not find a leak. "Then it needs an accessory belt tensioner". He checked that, it was fine. "OK, then, we have to get him to go for the seal on the rear pinion". My report said it was not necessary AT THIS TIME which means it might change in the future. Boss grabs my written report and tells me he will 'fix' my report..... and turns around to find the customer has walked up behind him. Well, that did not end up well and I was looking for a job the next day........... I considered it worth it.
The year they first came out I bought a new 4 cylinder Honda Civic. Drove it a while, brought it back for the 2000 mile check. They had given me a list of all that entailed, and I had purchased a marking pen and marked every bolt/nut that they would have to touch. Left the car with them, and when I came back to pick it up they proudly told me all of the work they had done. I opened the hood and started checking my marks, and most of the markings were broken, but not all. So I asked the Service Manager "How did they adjust the valves without removing the valve cover?" and showed him the valve cover bolts. He apologized, took the car back in the service bay, there was some yelling, and a while later my car came back out. He apologized again, changed my bill to zero dollars, and all was good. As long as he worked there I got first class service from then on.
As an alignment tech myself, I can say that it takes longer to get the vehicle set up than it does to make that adjustment. Once it's up on the lift then that particular adjustment is very quick and easy. With that said, they should have had it much closer to center considering that was the only adjustment to make. It was barely off in the first place... My guess is that he just pushed on the wheel enough to change the reading and hit "Print" 🤦♂️
Changing tires does NOT change your wheel alignment, if your wheel are aligned before the new tires, they are still aligned.
I got this alignment report while sitting at the desk completing paperwork for oil change. Fortunately, I didn’t have the hour and a half to “fix” the .20 frontal toe issue. While sitting in the waiting room, I watched this video and got 100% smarter. Thank you. While I’m here, I think I’ll ask to see my shiny new air filter before driving off the lot, too. Maybe even ask for the old one as a souvenir. 😬
If your old tires are worn evenly, then your alignment is good.
As a mechanic for years, I know how they do such tiny adjustments… but rotating the LASER that set on the RIM, once it hit the correct reading , print that report out
I been a mechanic for 20 years and honesty is been my number 1 goal I get so many people that they been taken advantage off and it piss me off how mechanics can just rip off people like that
Another common alignment scam is to charge for 4 wheel adjustment when the rear suspension has zero adjustment capabilities e.g. twist beam or trailing arm rear suspension. Caught my local place out when they tried this and asked them to show me how they adjusted rear camber and toe when I knew there was no adjustment.
My father caught the local Dealer on work not performed. He put a dab of model car paint on the bolts that had to be removed or adjusted. He checked the car and remarked to the service manager "you guys are good - you even aligned the cracks in the paint at each nut/bolt. He called the state in on that repair and the dealership was shut down for a month.
You need to complain to Corporate headquarters! They will revoke his dealership license and shut him down permanently. Big corporations don't like their good names smurred by unethical individuals. 🙏
Well ... At least they were NICE enough to say "We recommend alignment". Some aggressively shady places might throwing some sort of BS like "We cannot release your vehicle due to the safety concerns".
When they give you a printout of what your cars alignment looks like before they do any work. Look at. Camber Caster Total toe. Rear camber Rear total toe. The alignment of your car is based off the thrust angle . Yes that's the rear of the car So. Your thrust angle should be as close to zero as possible. The thrust angle is based off of individual toe of the rear wheels. When correctly aligned. The car will track perfectly straight. Front wheel drive cars need a 4 wheel alignment because those rear wheels are doing nothing but holding the rear of the car up.. But it is critical those rear wheels are tracking correctly. In rain or snow tires adhesion is only possible if the wheels are running parallel to each other. So zero or as close to zero as possible for thrust angle. Camber should be very close to zero also. Now. On performance cars you will have some negative camber. This is for handling purposes. But with negative camber you are now riding on the inside edges of the tire. Full contact with the road is compromised for the purpose of going around corners . Everyday cars is your camber should be close to zero. Side to side should be equal to. If you got -.25 degrees of camber on the left the right should be the same. . And most cars today are totally adjustable. They got eccentric cams or they use shims. A good alignment can be had if the shop gives a shit on how things are done. And a good alignment guy is very hard to find. So you need to know what those numbers mean on the printout. Moving to the front of the vehicle. Camber/ caster differences side to side will cause the car to pull or drift left or right. Excessive camber either positive or negative will cause tire wear . Neg camber will wear the insides of the tire. Pos camber will wear the out side of the tire. Caster is put into an alignment to give a car directional stability. When you go around a corner and you let go of the steering wheel and id brings the car back to a straight line in your lane. That's the caster . The higher the caster the more stability you have. Sports cars solid axle 4x4s. Have high caster. 5-8 degrees is normal. Side to side the caster should be the same. 4 degrees on the left should be matched with 4 degrees on the right. An off set of caster will cause the car to drift or even pull. A vehicle will pull to the lower caster 4.00 left And 4.50. Right. The vehicle will pull left. ( on a flat road). General rule of thumb. What ever you have on the left side should be matched on the right. This printout shown in this video is a normal printout. BUT. The only thing that important with toe. Is total toe. iE with the toe being equal left and right. That number which is in red is unimportant. The last procedure of the alignment is setting the toe. Tech gets in the car. Starts the engine. Steers back and forth a little. Then centers the steering wheel. Puts his steering wheel holder in place. Now he can adjust left and right toe separately. When he's done the steering will be straight. And his toe will be the same on the left as it is on the right. Now. .04 in toe inches is I pinch over a 1/32 of an inch. So if the left is .04 and the right is .06 This no big deal. Your talking about a difference of a .1/16 of an inch total Look at totally toe. It should be a little toed in. Like .06-.08. that is a total of a 1/16 to an .1/8 of an inch total toe. If your alignment printout is in degrees for toe reading .06 in inch in degrees it will be .03. Very close to zero. So don t let them sell you on the idea that your toe is way out because it's at .06 negative. In degrees. That is .1/32 of an inch total toe. That does not make tire wear. . When you get your car back. Your steering wheel should be straight. Your car should go right down the road straight. On a level concrete road you should be able to let your hands off the wheel and it should go perfectly straight down your lane. If it doesn't t take it back. Have the tech drive your car and verify it has a pull. Then tell them to fix it. Could be a bad tire Could be bad parts on the car they didn t catch in the inspection. AND ... It could be their alignment equipment. Dirty turnplates Out of calibration due to mistreatment or malfunction of the aligner. Or a lousy tech or inexperienced tech. An alignment is probably the most easily done procedure on your auto that is simple to do. And easily diagnosed for problems. And most people don t really know what they are saying to you. It's a quick sell. . I hope this helps someone out there sorry for the long winded explanation. I spent 11 years installing training repairing Hunter equipment. I trained a lot of techs. Most of them were good guy who knew what they were doing. But there were a fair amount of techs that didn care and took no pride in what they did. .and the service writers that you will be talking to very often did not know undercar stuff. They would just parrot and interpret what the tech said about your car. That's what happened in this video. The desk person did not know how to read the printout.
Bravo. Good post.
Your knowledge is unbeatable. Can you recommend a good place in Los Angeles?
Hm, what nobody here seems to have a problem with is that they mounted other tires than he ordered, without asking him first. I would have said, take 'em off again, I do want the ones I told you, and if you can't get them, I'll go somewhere else. Doesn't matter if they gave him a little more expensive ones for the original quoted price. Before I buy tires, I do research on tire test results, and make my decision of which brand I buy based on that. A tire that costs only a little more might have worse performance results...
and woh setiting price the the tire shop, the manufactures RRP price ? any one inflate the price of something they are selling, in fact it the cornerstone business by one price sell same price+(you costs), what ever that is
I think what's happening is they did so much nefarious stuff people can't keep up with it all as they get focused on one aspect.
I'm with you. Don't do what I didn't ask for or you're working for free.
Very true great point! I think we'd all be better off with a little searching and comparing.
Agreed. I'd be pissed. I would have demanded they put my old tires back on and got the hell out of there.
If my tires are wearing out even and the vehicle is tracking straight, no alignment!
I glad I bought and buy my tires from a shop who just sells wheels and tires. I’ve taken my vehicle to my own mechanic and ask to have my alignment checked. I’ve had them tell me, We checked it and your alignment is good. No charge. It’s nice to have honest mechanics when they do get a bad reputation across the board due to the ripoff guys.
Hi Pete, I started watching your video instead of working on my wife's car, yeah, go figure. But I wanted to tell you an outrageous story. I'm talking to my sister in Florida and she tells me moms Chrysler Town and Country Van needed the headlight fixed and they were going to charge her $2100 for the work. They told her that the problem was the solenoid for the high intensity bulb and that the whole front end needed to be dismantled to get to it. Well I was going down for a visit in a week, so I went online and bought the part for under $40. I brought with me a 1/4 in socket set and some hand tools and watched a couple of youtube videos. Mom lives in a Condo and your not supposed to work on your car in the open air garage under her unit, so when I got there I waited till midnight and went to work. By one O-clock I was done. And as for the last guys comments, I don't care how much your overhead is, stuff like this is nothing less than trying to mug a little old lady.
I take it you have never done an alignment before. An average car .04* tie rod adjustment is 100% possible, .01* is also 100% possible, .04* slop in the steering is also possible. the average outer tie rod is close to the bead of a stock sized wheel, the average car has a tie rod with a 16TPI adjustment thread so one rotation of the inner tie rod would get you .0625" of travel so about 30* on the inner tie rod would get you your .006" of travel. The best way to tell is just look at the tie rod jam just and see if there is evidence a wrench has touched it. it only takes a few seconds to adjust a single tie rod, you pay $99 for the value of having your alignment fixed not some guy working on your car for an hour. Pro tip, next time you take a car there, don't answer the phone when they call, if the alignment is slightly off like it was in the case and the car is on the rack and you don't answer they will just fix it because spending 30 seconds adjusting a tie rod is better than the car tying up the rack waiting for you to call back, or taking the car off the rack and then having you call back and say you want the alignment performed then they have to put it back on. This way they will either say the alignment was good when you call in or say they need to adjust some things, in that case just decline the service and you will get a free alignment with your free alignment check, If you accept they will just sit on your ticket for a few hours and call you back and add $99 to your bill.
This man is 100% correct.
I had a dealership attempt to sell me a new transfer case for $4000, for a nasty vibration. The service manager almost got me. I drove away to a independent repair shop; repaired for $60! A U joint needed replaced. $60 included a u joint and labor. I tore one hell of a strip of that service manager. I also ended all future work and future car purchases at that dealer forever.
Good for you! I agree. The only thing else to do is tell everybody about their practices.
Having 8yrs of experience and ASE certified tech. I can easily see all they did was move the steering wheel to the right a little and BAM there ya go. You can see that with the measurements. See how all of them changed the same. Left and right toe and steer ahead. If they would have done it correctly the camber would have or should have also been adjusted. Also if the alignment was actually done correctly the steer ahead and toe should be set at perfect specs.
Another reason why customers aren't allowed in the shop for "insurance purposes ". Yep, insurance that you can't catch them cheating!
Due to OSHA regulations, as well as insurance and liabilities, customers are not allowed into the back room or shop of any kind unless guided specifically by the technician with proper ppe and approval from the manager. However, you are always welcome to watch from outside the bay doors, unless the unfortunate case that the shop is a closed shop which normally still has a big view window to see what's going on with your vehicle.
NO HAMMER NEEDED. SIMPLY THEY NEVER ADJUSTED ANYTHING. THE TOTAL TOE STAYED AT .19 DEGREES SO THEY JUST TURNED THE STEERING WHEEL TO THE RIGHT A TAD. LEFT SIDE TIRE MOVED .04 AND RIGHT SIDE -.04.
I said the exact same thing, but used like 10 times more words than you. lol. No need to yell though. 😛
Sorry. Lol. Didn't mean to yell. There was over 1k comments and wanted it to be seen. I've been a mechanic and have done over 25k alignments in my career so I know all the alignment angles and terminology.
One of the best known auto dealership chains in Massachusetts tried to scam me. I'm retired and drive roughly 5,500 miles yearly. Three years ago I took my truck to the dealer for an oil change. They said I needed to replace the cabin filter and engine air filter. I said next time I'm in. I had 15,000 miles on the vehicle. The dealer wanted $252.00 to change both filters. I bought each filter myself at the parts store for $19.00 on sale each. watched youtube videos on how to change the filters. Each filter took approximately 5 minutes to change. I took both used filters to the parts store for inspection. The man behind the counter said the filters were in "new" condition and there was no need to change them at all. Just like I thought.
Before you replace your tires, look at each tire for tread wear and that will tell you if you have an issue, It should wear evenly across the tire in general.
My dad always told me to get the old part back from them as some sort of proof they actually put new part in
Thank you for sharing this. Very shady and disappointing to know corrupt places like this are taking advantage over non-car people.
The gentleman of this video is doing the same thing by taking advantage of non car people. From the perspective of someone that doesn't understand how alignment machine work, can me jarring. But this video is very misleading
Opinions vary
My father and I got an entire crew at Scammerstone, mean firestone fired. I have a degree in automotive repair and at that time ASE certifications, my father is certified in helicopter and airplane repair, a locomotive diesel mechanic, and also had years of experience in automotive repairs. Between him and I at the time we had 70 years experience. We went in for a tire warranty, they said it would be a while, we waited. I watched them pull the truck in, never raised it on a lift, just put a jack under it and took the one wheel off for the warranty. Mind you we were there waiting for an hour, the truck was in the bay for less than 5 minutes. The week prior I did a complete suspension replacement, along with brakes and wheel bearings, struts, ball joints, control arms. Plus oil change, tune up, air and fuel filters, serpentine belt... I did the works on it. Manager comes walking in with a list of what all it needed, exactly everything I did was on this list, over $5000 qoute! He stands there reading this list off... I stop him half way in, I asked my dad if my automotive degree was worthless, plus my 30 years experience, the I was like dang, my dad's helicopter, airplane, diesel locomotive certifications are all worthless too. "I watched you pull the truck in, never put it on a lift, and you magically pulled this list out of your ass, if the truck was actually lifted in the air, you'd have seen all the new parts on the truck. Give me your name employee number and I want corporates number. FIX THE F*ING WARRANTY TIRE NOW! I will also be reporting you for elderly abuse as it is against the law here in this state to take advantage of someone his age." Every single customer waiting there demanded their keys, my dad got an apology, plus they paid off his credit card with them, and sent free oil change coupons for 2 years. He cut his card up and burnt the coupons, he never will deal with them again.
Sorry to say there are thousands of shops and you can't keep the bags tech out of the industry. But I work for Dunn tire and if you think the alignment wasn't done then call corporate and they can pull video for your alignment and check to see if it was done. Every bay has a camera. I've seen techs fired for not doing a service that they said they did. Dunn Tire doesn't stand for it.
I have a dedicated alignment shop I trust and that’s where I go when I need an alignment. I will pay a nominal fee for an inspection that will be deducted if I need it to be adjusted and they do it. I have had them tell me that I don’t need an alignment in the past. Also had them fix the alignment after I had been scammed by a local tire shop and agreed to an alignment by the tire shop only to notice unusual tire wear after a month or two.