There's No Such Thing As A Covert Narcissist.
2024 ж. 11 Мам.
6 821 Рет қаралды
Dr. Ettensohn illustrates the different possible combinations of overt/covert and vulnerable/grandiose symptomatology, explaining that these presentations typically have an inversely proportional relationship.
References:
Pincus, A.L., & Lukowitsky, M.R. (2010). Pathological narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder. Annual Review of Clinical Psychology, 6, 421-446.
#npd #narcissism #mentalhealth #mentalhealthawareness #psychology #healing #covertnarcissist
I will remove comments that are abusive to any individual (including myself) or population. This includes comments that are abusive toward pwNPD.
Ugh thank you for making this video, I feel this is the thing I have to explain over and over again because of how Narcissism is portrayed in the common culture. "Are you a grandiose or vulnerable narcissist." or "Are you an overt or covert narcissist" Like dude I'm ALL FOUR LOL. If anything I'm "grandiose presenting, most of the time" cause depending on how self esteem regulation is going I can certainly be vulnerable presenting. Also I felt the party analogy LOL
This is one of the best explanations I've heard. Thank you Dr. You should have more subscribers.
Glad it was helpful!
❤ Thank You for Helping people understand the disorder and the disordered to help them understand themselves. 🎉
Thank you for doing the exact same thing. ❤
A wonderful chart to explain this disorder. It also helps to show the variety NPD can manifest.
Thank you for your definition of the inversely proportional relationship between the narcissist's symptoms. Very helpful.
I've come to that realization too that it's a continuum that helps explain degrees and severity of NPD. But you are explaining what drives them. I can see that.
When we think of a typical narcissist, we think of overt grandiosity and covert vulnerability, with borderlines we imagine overt vulnerability and covert grandiosity
I have bpd which presents itself more quietly than it did in my teenage years, especially as I have been trying to work on myself. Even though I have bpd, what you were saying about grandiosity fuelling the covert representations with npd.. does somewhat match how I used to feel when I was younger also eventhough I have bpd.
This is so very helpful! Can’t thank you enough for your content 😊
Interesting. Have you ever made any videos about the differences between male and female narcissists? According to research I've seen recently, 'overt' female narcissists are slightly different from male ones in that they are more likely to report lower levels of self esteem and higher neuroticism, at least comparatively.
Thank you for this I believe my husband to be a narcissist and and when I try to figure out well which one he seems to fit them all very well…please continue to make videos I am also in my first year of psychology your content is so helpful thank you again
This was clear and easy to understand. Thanks for putting this explanation together!
Thank you so much for this ❤❤ I've recently been diagnozed with npd and found myself getting depressed again 😵💫 and this just gave me a more clear view on my self and my behavior.. i can feel empathy and love and do NOT wish to hurt others.. but I also know when something tricks me the "wrong" way I'm and ass.. i deeply aware of my behaviour but my emotions have control over me in some way... oh and I'm also diagnosed with ADHD hyperactive type.. and I'm 38 years so very hard to deal with my "autopilot".. I have not shared this with a lot of people just the closest ones (not my parents though) because of all the stigmas people carry around..
You are very welcome.
Maibrit Nielsen, Every time that I read one of these comments where a, “ narcissist “ says that they got diagnosed but that they have empathy or don’t want to hurt people makes me wonder if they are really Borderline personality disorder mixed with Narcissistic personality disorder. A true NPD does not back down. If they feel that they are right on a subject, they can’t be reasoned with. So for instance, they have an, “ I can do no wrong “ mentality. In my opinion, you can always know that you’re dealing with a narcissist if they take a stance like this and can’t be reasoned with. And keep in mind that what I am expressing here is that they are wrong and that they can’t back down from that. Even if both parties are wrong, they cannot say, oh I see your point on that. They can’t really humble themselves. I am talking about narcissist/psychopaths, to be clear. Even the narcissists who aren’t cruel, they end up being cruel anyways because they cannot empathize with you. It’s disturbing. It’s disturbing when you are in a society that operates with certain societal rules that people choose to follow, in order to get along, and the narcissist/ psychopath operates in a mental dysfunction that makes them not get along in society. So to wrap up what I am trying to say is, I call bull shit every time I read one of these comments: “ I’m an NPD but I don’t want to hurt people; But I care. “ Bull shit! The minute one of you guys are triggered, you absolutely look out for yourself. Also this thing is a choice ( for some narcissists ). I’ve seen my sister absolutely behave around certain people and then not behave around their targets. I’m not saying that they don’t have a disorder, I’m saying that they can control it. So, but it’s on a spectrum. I swear to God your kind has BPD mixed in them. So I think you guys should work on it. That BPD part can be worked on and is worth working on it. Who knows, maybe by sheer luck, that NPD part will fall off probably with a lot of practice with empathy and trying to imagine putting yourself in someone else’s shoes. In my opinion, you guys might not be getting properly diagnosed. These personality disorders can mix and match. For instance, I can pinpoint a little bit of everything inside of myself: Borderline but the quiet kind, narcissism, psychopathy, histrionic, schizoid, avoidant, dependent, and there’s probably even more. I just don’t know about it because it’s hard to study all of them. I have too much empathy. I have both cognitive and feeling empathy. I don’t have that delusion, that they have; that delusion of superiority. And I don’t have sadism. I don’t get off on hurting people. I don’t have to be in control. I can let things drop. Can I be the cruel type of a narcissist? I just don’t have it in me. I can back down. I can humble myself. I am definitely different because I don’t have the sadism, the need to be a bully. So now that I have written all of that, my question is to you, are you in need to control, bully, be right, and not know how to put yourself in somebody else’s shoes so much so that it helps you to back down? If your answer is yes, then yes, you are NPD but if you are claiming that you don’t want to hurt other people because you care, then something else is going on. It could be that you are mixed with BPD. Or it could be that you are lying to yourself somehow. Because they are in a delusion and you could be deluding yourself.
So you were fairly aware of some of your maladaptations even before you got diagnosed, from how you laid this out. I'm curious about how old you are, if you've been in long term relationships and if you were prone to cheating? Sorry if that's too personal. I like these more validating of people w/ NPD channels, even though I was at the receiving end of what turned pretty toxic after 10 years. There was lying, cheating and gaslighting at the end, and why I got out. Understanding helps me to feel less victimized. That mindset is not healthy for anyone to stay stuck in. Too many channels that do that too.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 Wow that not judgemental at all! I'm 38 now and yes I'm in a relaship that's been going for 17 years and I don't cheat. If my picture in writing does not live up to your expectations - I've got a bad temper only verbal so can go from 1 - 100 in seonds when triggered the wrong way.. I'm not a sadist and just want peace and I'm working with myself on a daily basis. So thanx for thinking I'm just like your cheating X
@@maibritnielsen8315 I'm sorry Malbrit. I know my questions were blunt, but I really didn't assume I knew any of the answers. I actually do know that not all men, not all narcissists cheat. It's just that if you were willing to share, I'm trying to understand those that do, and I'm trying hard to heal from it all. I'm so glad you're in a bonded relationship for 17 years. I hope you going to therapy can strengthen it, though you may be one of the lucky ones where it's sound already. I really try not assume much.
Thanks, Doc. I didn't know this. Your explanation actually clears up a lot of confusion.
Thank you ❤
Wow thank you
I love your work. Thank you for the time you put in creating this content.
I watched this a few times now. Very helpful!
Excellent, thank you❤
Very helpful visual! It's still hard for me to accept that my brother ever feels shame or worthlessness, but it's one step at a time to understanding him that I have to take, for our parents.
Very helpful. Thank you
I fucking love this graph
Thank you for this! I see people misuse these terms all the time.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video!
I wish my adult daughter could treat with you. She is very narcissistic. There's no getting through to her. 😢
This is the first I’ve seen the grid and it makes a lot of sense. Very interesting
🙂
Thank you
That made it even more confusing.
Whatever is the more promising option for any given enemy, of course! ;)
Really smart and thought provoking. Is this evidence based? Is it testable?
Is there a difference between someone who wants to be seen by a certain number of people versus someone who just wants to be understood by one person? Could one be seen as simply needing someone to understand since this is an existential human need that everyone (people with or without NPD) have and pursue? Does one exhibit covert grandiosity while the other is simply showing frustration at not getting what everyone else has/is receiving, and does that differentiate someone with pathological narcissism versus simply just being chronically misunderstood and frustrated at not having an emotional need met?
Are you able to talk about npd childhood?
I’ve been told I have a narcissistic vulnerability with a borderline organization, but not much grandiosity/narcissistic personality traits. Where does this fall in your paradigm?
Could you give your impression on narcissistic people who weren't abused?
Like coddling and overdependence?
@@intodewood0598 Putting a child on a pedestal or coddling etc, is abuse
@@FreeBrunoPowroznik It's over then.
That's a great question cos my oldest son who was treated so well became a narcissist 😢!I just can't fathom why!!It's heart wrenching!!
@@intodewood0598that is abuse too
I thought that the last one - displaying arrogance which hides vulnerability is something that many people do. Hm.
Me 1 minute in 👁️👄👁️
This is interesting, but this is not the common usage of vulnerable or covert narcissism. This a subtype of NPD that was identified in certain schools of psychology long before the internet existed. Imagine one narcissist grows up competing in sports and another grows up obese and bullied. Both are narcissists but their personality develops very different strategies for receiving attention. The covert usually prefers negative attention, in my experience. Hope this helps
Not sure I understand your comment. What I am presenting is consistent with peer-reviewed literature concerning pathological narcissism. I think you are correct that many people don’t use the term ‘covert narcissism’ in the way presented here, which is why I made the video. "...any perpetuation of overt and covert narcissism as distinct types or phenotypes simply adds to the criterion problem plaguing pathological narcissism. Our view is that this distinction is simply about different modes of the expression of narcissistic grandiosity and narcissistic vulnerability..... Our clinical experience with narcissistic patients indicates they virtually always exhibit both covert and overt grandiosity and covert and overt vulnerability. Prior assertions linking vulnerable hypersensitivity with covert narcissism are clinically inaccurate." -Pincus, A.L., & Lukowitsky, M.R. (2010). Pathological narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder. Annual Review of Clinical Psychology, 6, 421-446.
Video flew right over your head
the ones I know, that are trying to work on themselves show both at times. 🤍