Road Trippin' TBT from Ep. 161 with Robert Horry talking about Tim Duncan vs Hakeem Olajuwon.
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No player is 10 times better than Tim Duncan
@dedricpatton5874 Жыл бұрын
Maybe not 10x better, but significantly better! Olajuwon has 500 more points, 800 more blocks, 1,100 more steals and better FG %!
@hakeemolajuwon4352 Жыл бұрын
The dream played basketball without eating or drinking anything
@chrisjames9227 Жыл бұрын
I watched both played and I also think Hakeem olajuwan was a better player but I don't think it was 10x.. but this is my opinion. Hakeem was horrys mentor so yeah he learned a lot from him. With him playing with Tim ducan he would know what tim ducan was capable of doing and not..
@duypham76 Жыл бұрын
Plus on the jump he said dream was 20x better not 10x he lied in the video to make it not sound as criminal
@erics8018 Жыл бұрын
You can't compare the two. Duncan is the greatest PF ever as far as I'm concerned. Olajuwon is defo in the top 5 Centers ever. Also I agree with Rich about Jason Kidd. Defo one of the greatest PG ever as well. To me Stockton is the greatest PG ever.
@LynxStarAuto Жыл бұрын
If he had said Dream was better than Tim, even if he said Dream was flat out better, nobody would have a problem. He didn't have to say "ten times".
@torpedospurs Жыл бұрын
i think he meant is dream is ten 10 times better to him in term of relationship as a mentor, friend, team mate, teacher. in term as a player, dream is a better player, timmy has a better career. dream foot work, midrange, post move are better than timmy, and his ft shooting is better than timmy . team couldn't hack a dream, but they could hack a timmy.
@antrinh55258 ай бұрын
I think you guys are misinterpreting what he's saying. Robert is admitting he's biased towards dream because Hakeem was a mentor who taught him life lessons. His relationship with tim was strictly basketball.
@DaxSports1 Жыл бұрын
10x better was too much even hyperbolically. Even Michael Jordan was not 10x better than a rotation player in the NBA. However we measure being good, no player was that much better than another.
@danielnc19798 ай бұрын
Despite "Big Shot Rob" is indifferent to San Antonio nowadays, there's no doubt his presence and contributions are so invaluable during his time there. Simply put: Without his G5 2005 Finals heroics, there's a higher chance of no 3rd Title for San Antonio. He and Mario Elie infused toughness and nastiness to the Spurs they acquired from winning consecutive Titles in Houston. And it's a bit disheartening despite his accolades, it seems his input was not well-accepted. He once cited they could have five (5) Titles in a row should the 0.4 shot didn't happen while he quipped the Spurs should have stayed big against the Mavericks like what the Heat did in 2006 Finals. Mike Munroe wrote an article about how Pop and the Spurs parted ways with Horry unpleasantly. IIRC, there was a funeral they attended. Pop and other Spurs reps were there with Horry, who that time (2008) a free agent. Horry said Pop will contact him about a possible contract or job capacity within the organization. Pop didn't called. No team expressed interest that led him to retire after 16 clutch-filled Seasons. "Dream" 10x better than Big Fundamental is an exaggeration. His explanation at least create a disclaimer. Let's face the fact some NBA players didn't like the ho-hum, low key atmosphere of San Antonio. And despite not winning consecutively, the fact they've won on five separate occasions is impressive in itself. And no doubt, Horry and Elie did their great part to make it happen, giving the Spurs confidence their system and culture is viable despite respective chagrins.
@OrionOodama11 ай бұрын
Well said
@porkchopTopHat9 ай бұрын
He said 20x better but it’s not a player 5x better than Timmy
@rodneyhigh28406 ай бұрын
Dream might be better, but not ten times better. Come on now.
@SiriusV21 Жыл бұрын
that's a metaphor, its not literal...it is difficult to understand that?
@leonardoyi3183 Жыл бұрын
@@leonardoyi3183 I think you mean hyperbole. That is not a metaphor.
@SiriusV21 Жыл бұрын
@@SiriusV21 yes, an hyperbole...my bad...but don't take it literally, most people dont understand this type of comments.
@leonardoyi3183 Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I think the 10 times part is what took it over the top. Its like saying Dream was 10 times better than Shaq...don't blame the spurs fans; sometimes the statement is flat out inaccurate.
@dewaynecastan8444 Жыл бұрын
The “ten times” part made it seem like Hakeem was LeBron James and tim Duncan was jakarr sampson
@angelusgnz5784 Жыл бұрын
Thank you Robert for the Bernard King reference. That guy was a beast.
@curtisthomas35988 ай бұрын
TIM DONCAN IS ONE OF THE GREATEST TO EVER PLAY THE GAME !!!!!!!!!!!
@tcameron6029 Жыл бұрын
And then you woke up!
@stevesparks200111 ай бұрын
The greatest
@mariojones79822 ай бұрын
Tom Chambers dunking on Mark Jackson would of been the most disrespectful poster to sign
@rwest3rd803 Жыл бұрын
With all due respect
@yahyaremtulla Жыл бұрын
Scottie pippen on Ewing?
@erics8018 Жыл бұрын
I've noticed a lot of these players really don't understand how good dream was because that American myth machine got them buying their own hype
@IknowMoreThanYou Жыл бұрын
Duncan won 5 championships and Hakeem won 2. While Jordan wasn't playing at that. Stop it. No one is saying he isn't great, but Duncan is just better.
@Daniel_AurA Жыл бұрын
@@Daniel_AurA Dream wins at least 5 if you put him on those same spurs teams. Context matters, quit being lazy.
@ManuelPerez-tp6re Жыл бұрын
@@ManuelPerez-tp6re Exactly. he's an obvious casual with TRASH analysis.
@IknowMoreThanYou Жыл бұрын
@@Daniel_AurA Duncan is very GREAT and one of my favorite players. But he gets overrated a bit because of Pops ability to coach build a team and develop talent. For TD's last 2 titles HE WAS NOT the best player in the league or ON HIS TEAM. He played an ANCHORING defensive role quite well But TP Manu and then later Kawhi drove those latter rings. Hakeem is a cut above. You're a casual in need of a history lesson: SECOND YEAR dream DESTROYED THE PRIME SHOWTIME LAKERS when he HAD a halfway decent supporting cast. If dream had a squad throughout the 80s A LOT OF Y'ALL FAVES WOULD NOT HAVE AS MANY RINGS. It is strange how even modern day players ignore this, forgot, or sweep it under the rug. David Stern's narrative of the 80s worked, it looks like. MICHAEL JORDAN WAS NOT GONE FOR HAKEEMS SECOND RING: HE LOST TO SHAQ AND PENNY. HAKEEM THEN SWEPPPPPPTTTTTTTT the team JORDAN LOST TO. JORDAN is ALSO on record saying the bulls HAD NO ANSWER FOR HAKEEM and that DREAM WAS SIMPLY THE CENTER VERSION OF MICHAEL JORDAN. DREAM WAS THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE JORDAN WAS WORRIED ABOUT. DREAM WITH TIMS SUPPORTING CAST GETS 7 RINGS.
@IknowMoreThanYou Жыл бұрын
@@Daniel_AurA Duncan 5 championships, and his longevity is what makes him ranked so high on most all time list...But to be honest, if you compare regular season numbers at their prime of david robinson and tim duncan, David Robinson numbers are a lot better than Duncan's. Then, you see other players prime, like Shaq, Kobe, Olajuwon, they not only had better numbers than Duncan, they dominated a lot more than Duncan
@leonardoyi3183 Жыл бұрын
They always asking about their top 5 players when honestly their opinion on the top 5 best teammates sounds hella interesting if they’ll be like what Horry had to say bout Dream or what RJ had to say about Kidd
@EnTiempo824 Жыл бұрын
Last I checked they consider Abdul-Jabbar Legend too so what's wrong with Bernard King he was a hugely talented player a bucket waiting to happen so all respect to Bernard King
@theodoremetcalfe1651 Жыл бұрын
The "modern" age of NBA started in the 80s. Bernard King was dominant in the 70s. Kareems was also dominant in the 70s (and 60s), but his success extended into the 80s. He gets looked at in both eras.
@shyguymuzik9095 Жыл бұрын
It's still a ridiculous statement to make. 10 times better? Hell nah. For me Duncan is in much top 10 and Hakeem is at number 12 all time for me. Both phenomenal all time legends but Horry was tripping with that comment, I remember when he said it on the Jump.
@georgeparker8198 Жыл бұрын
Timmy has won more...and I DO think he's Top 10....But Dream is RIGHT there...Dream was a team player but could consistently take his game to the stratosphere to win games....Timmy COULD do that - 2003 vs the Lakers - but didn't do it enough...If you switch them in their Primes, I believe that the Spurs win at LEAST one b2b set with Dream, and he wins at least 5 chips....The Rockets with Duncan still probably win a chip or 2 but Timmy don't win 5.... Dream was the best defender I've ever seen, as he could guard from the post ALL they way out to the 3 pt line, and from 1 through 5....the amount of times I've seen him strip PGs in the open floor is ridiculous. He's the ONLY player to be in the Top 10 in Blocks (1st) AND Steals (10th), PLUS he's the ONLY Center in the top SIXTY in Steals! He's also the only player to average 2blks/2stls in the same season for 5 different seasons...no other player has more than one. You might say that Timmy was a better teammate, but it isn't by much as all of Dream's teammates speak of him glowingly....and, as an athlete, its Dream by a mile.
@twilitezn Жыл бұрын
If you watched them both play then you'd understand that Dream was better. And Tim Duncan is my favorite player
@younglove3362 Жыл бұрын
Why the air quotes before "changed the game"
@jomuski6591 Жыл бұрын
His all time staring 5 is just like mine except I got Scottie pippen as my point forward.
@Phuong_Nguyen_11 ай бұрын
Bird, Russell and JORDAN, MAGIC and Havelcheck. Magic and Jordan in the backcourt. All Celtics front court. Champions at every position. People forget about Havelcheck.
@gregorywilson2124Ай бұрын
Top 10 no particular order Duncan, Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Mr. Russell, Bird/Curry! Dream there hanging out with the Barkley’s, Clyde’s & KD’s of the world on the benchl!!!!! DID SOMEONE SAY BIAS?????????????😂🤣😏😏😏😏💯
@diontethompson8850 Жыл бұрын
Overall if you are one of those people who place Duncan ahead of Olajuwon...it is more than likely because he won more rings. Outside of Assists from Duncan.... There is no Skillset On Offense or Defense that Duncan is better at in comparison to Hakeem. Hakeem was considered one of the more complete players ever and only had the correct personal to win a title maybe 4 yrs out of his whole 18 yr career. Rebounds...Olajuwon Block shots...Olajuwon Steals....Olajuwon Defense in Post...Olajuwon Ocassional perimeter D...Olajuwon Overall Defense... both were Great....But I would pick Hakeem. Hakeem holds the Block Record Hakeem is top 10 ever in Steals Hakeem was great at Post and occasional perimeter Defense Hakeem is considered the Greatest Defender Ever....with Names Like Bill Russell and Dennis Rodman. Freethrows...Olajuwon Midrange shot....Olajuwon Post Moves....Olajuwon Duncan had a bankshot which was really good Olajuwon had the Dream Shake which had about 7 different counter moves Assists....Duncan IQ....Even Duncan never had to go through the type of trials or high and Lows that Hakeem had to endure in his career... Hakeem had one good yr with Ralph Sampson when they made it to the Finals in 86 before Sampson got hurt and other Rockets got kicked out the league. Hakeem had to carry a team to the playoffs from 87 to 91 for about 5 to 6 yrs voided of talent by himself because the Rockets Management and Ownership wasn't committed to winning. Hakeem almost left the Rockets and they wasn't a contender again til 93...Olajuwon still had to win a title without another star in 94...and then got an older Drexler who only had about 2 good yrs left in him. They won in 95....then Olajuwon was hurt right at the beginning of the 96 playoffs and had already been out the last 2 weeks of the regular season. Olajuwon had one more run in 97...(which was the last yr Olajuwon was a good) Barkley joined the Rockets...all much older but formidable and not a deep team but they made it to the Western Conference Finals and lost. I would Like to see how Duncan would have fared in Hakeems shoes...Basically, 1. Duncan enter the league wins the championship in 99. 2. Then Robinson retires 3. San Antonio gets Greg Popovich as a head coach 4. Then San Antonio adds Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Bruce Bowen. Just when all is clicking and Duncan thinks he will win another title because he is building something Special with these players....NOW TAKE AWAY Greg Popovich, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, and Bruce Bowen and tell Duncan to win for the next 5 to 6 yrs by himself and see what happens. This is Olajuwon's career mostly.
@peterguidry6084 Жыл бұрын
I fuckin love nba behind the scene stories.
@McTrickery Жыл бұрын
One is a PF and the other is a center. Why are we comparing them?
@charlesmarcus7864 Жыл бұрын
10x is so outlandish that Horry's explanation totally makes sense.
@emblem2425 Жыл бұрын
I remember when most players of your caliber, Rob, would stay with the same team their whole career (or damn close to it). We have a hard time realizing that players like you, who played for multiple teams, are not going to give all your loyalty to one team. You are going to have a different perspective. Thanks for explaining it. Still appreciate the years that we had you on the Spurs.
@mediamannaman11 ай бұрын
jordan, hakeem PF, shaq, kobe SF, lebron at PG. unstoppable... with my life on the line.
@francois2893 Жыл бұрын
10x tho?!
@showguy8701 Жыл бұрын
10x better was a stupidly provocative thing to say.
@PygmaApril Жыл бұрын
Bernard King, Andrew Toney and Adrian Dantley are three of the most underrated scorers of all time. Horry has to have something against Shawn Kemp not picking him in his top 5 instead of Shaq for the latter's period of dominance was not quite much longer than Kemp's who denied the Rockets at least 2 and at most 3 titles because they would have gone on to beat the Bulls even with Rodman.
@joespitzer977 Жыл бұрын
Some people will say they needed Thorpe against the Sonics in 1996. They didn't need Thorpe in 1996. They needed health.
@JamesHardenoverKobe13 Жыл бұрын
@@JamesHardenoverKobe13 I agree with you.
@joespitzer977 Жыл бұрын
SECOND YEAR dream DESTROYED THE PRIME SHOWTIME LAKERS when he HAD a halfway decent supporting cast. If dream had a squad throughout the 80s A LOT OF Y'ALL FAVES WOULD NOT HAVE AS MANY RINGS. It is strange how even modern day players ignore this, forgot, or sweep it under the rug. David Stern's narrative of the 80s worked, it looks like. DREAM WITH TIMS SUPPORTING CAST GETS 7 RINGS
@IknowMoreThanYou Жыл бұрын
Crazy to think that HOU could’ve got both MJ & Olajuwon. They would’ve had the NBA in an absolute chokehold lol
@pericopinero1035 Жыл бұрын
And at that time rockets didnt have their starting PG in the playoffs John Lucas 16pts 9ast per game. Just give Olajuwon a complete team and he would've beaten both showtime lakers and bird celtics in his second year!
@10471804 Жыл бұрын
@@10471804 🎯
@IknowMoreThanYou Жыл бұрын
Tim was too nice for hurry. Everyone else he picked were mean guys. Including Hakeem
@rxtsec1 Жыл бұрын
I agree with Horry about Bernard King. For whatever reason, people have forgotten how unstoppable he was before he blew out his knee. Had the Knicks not traded him & paired him with Patrick Ewing after the draft,they likely would've won a championship because Bernard would've been the go to on offense instead Pat. Bernard King was MONEY.
@davidboyd9742 Жыл бұрын
Pat and Bernard never played a game together makes me sad
@ImadogGarcia8 ай бұрын
Is he sure it's not like uh 9x?
@larrycohen5553 Жыл бұрын
Top 5 for me; Magic Johnson,Michael Jordan,Lebron James,Hakeem Olajuwon and Shaq O Neal. My non MVP choice. Isiah Thomas, Grant Hill,Scottie Pippen,Shawn Kemp and Patrick Ewing.
@user-nv8xu7nf3f7 ай бұрын
I AGREE
@mauriceromain7849 Жыл бұрын
Just ignore this guy. He can't get over that his time in the spotlight is done. Popovich kept him a year too long as a favor. I was embarrassed for him when they would put him in the game that last year.
@rodolfodominguez99887 ай бұрын
He said the Dream is better because he taught him the game but he didn’t say because of skills or what ever which I’m not sure if he was eluding to or employing. So to me his explanation doesn’t compare player skills nor of court stuff, like he need to be more specific tbh honest or other people understood it but I didn’t
@clemence8623 Жыл бұрын
He pretty much admitted that he can't answer the question objectively.
@trexxis812 Жыл бұрын
Hakeem is better than Duncan, offensively and defensively
@younglove3362 Жыл бұрын
Ja on Malik
@KEIMOTHERAPY. Жыл бұрын
Dream might've been more skilled but Duncan won more so he's better.
@joshuafult84Ай бұрын
When Houston Played San Antonio in the 90s Duncan was never even a factor!
@stevesparks200111 ай бұрын
Can’t say nothing about the ice man either, that’s fair that you have love for dream Robert, I get it however better basketball player no it’s close but Tim gets the edge 5 rings. As long ass it’s not envy for Tim because he dominated you in the paint and fry his no hall a game ass.
@adamgonzales5649 Жыл бұрын
Benard King was a beast!!!!!!!
@creek3205 Жыл бұрын
A Top5 Starting Five w/o Kobe "NOR" MJ!? #cantrespectthat
@isaiahr3471 Жыл бұрын
gotta agree with horry. duncan was good, but hakeem was on another level.
@sebastiancovac7879 Жыл бұрын
Why was magic winnin as a rookie OBVIOUSLY because of Karim DUH..!! so Karim is the greatest player to ever touch a besketball n greatest Laker ever......
@spiritoflifeinchristminist97647 күн бұрын
Giannis on hardaway
@febrispacarro1927 Жыл бұрын
Dream was not 10x better than timmy though. More like 3x better yes
@10471804 Жыл бұрын
3x better? Get fucking real, if Dream were better (and he wasn’t) it would be marginal at best
@hardwoodthought1213 Жыл бұрын
Duncan was more accomplished, but peak for peak, Dream was better. Not 10x better, but better.
@ManuelPerez-tp6re Жыл бұрын
Hahah dream wasn't having it
@lordbeerus6182 Жыл бұрын
I would of love to dream vs Duncan from a skill standpoint I'll take Hakeem but he's not way better than Duncan
@jimmycharlotin7050 Жыл бұрын
Hakeem at his peak was better than Tim Duncan at his peak imo. But not by much.
@ggtr44 Жыл бұрын
Agreed ! Hakeem’s peak was better but not 10 times better.
@manjulmishra1045 Жыл бұрын
5 is more than 2
@thecodemongoose Жыл бұрын
@@JamesHardenoverKobe13 I agree with this. I forgot about the 2007 Suns and the suspensions.
@ggtr44 Жыл бұрын
@@JamesHardenoverKobe13 Hakeem was a force of nature. They league took his quadruple double, he went out and got another one shortly after that. He probably could do more on the court than Tim. But, Tim won 5 with the team he had, Hakeem won 2 with the teams he had. The pecking order for sports is not based on personal opinion. It’s based on winning. You can only play the ones they put against you. Also, Any Tim Duncan fans that say his teammates were irrelevant would get laughed at by Tim himself. Teammates matter a great deal in Team sports. Wilt coulda had more rings had he had better team mates. But at the end of the day, he won 2, Bill had 11. Bogus suspension? Yeah, I hated that call too. But refs make mistakes and professional basketball players are supposed to know you’re not supposed to leave the bench. It would make me personally happier if I could say Hakeem was better, but he ain’t. And yes. I’m one of those Ring matter most guys.
@thecodemongoose Жыл бұрын
@@JamesHardenoverKobe13 not after his knees went out. The dude got 3 rings with a bad knee. Admirable
@thecodemongoose Жыл бұрын
Starks never banged it on Jordan. Lies, lies lies, lol
@nfrancis11 Жыл бұрын
He dunked it on both, Jordan and Pippin. Stop it. The evidence is out there
@younglove3362 Жыл бұрын
Of course San Antonio doesn’t allow any smack talking towards the Spurs, it’s the only pro sports team the city has lol
@jcgp8510 ай бұрын
Ok. Was Hakeem 10x times than Duncan, no. Perhaps better maybe .
@frosty23silver87 Жыл бұрын
Tim was to Hakeem, what Kobe was to Jordan
@aw144k9 Жыл бұрын
no way hakeem is over timmy😂
@marksines1246 Жыл бұрын
Dream would eat Duncan for lunch no comparison most skilled center in league history that didn't have the coaching and talent around him like Tim did but he would absolutely destroy Duncan head to head facts MJ feared Hakeem truth
@michaeltorres5331 Жыл бұрын
And then Tim is 40X better than aHorry
@rdub379511 күн бұрын
Then just say I like 10x him better. He’s not 10x better.
@QGuides7 ай бұрын
Hakeem > Tim.... by a tiny margin.
@3411Chad10 ай бұрын
Nobody cares about bus rider Horry 🤣😭😂 Timmy D 1000% better than Horry
@realcoachescorner3503 Жыл бұрын
Hakeem>TD every day
@loganknox7 Жыл бұрын
Lol, if Horry was a bus rider, then he was the rider that got out to fix the flat tires and bail everyone out. And he did it not once or twice, but 7 times.
@kennethko1534 Жыл бұрын
@@kennethko1534 horry averaged 7 points a game on 42% shooting for his career. Stop it.
@Daniel_AurA Жыл бұрын
@@Daniel_AurA he also hit big time clutch shots that helped get those teams a championship , and that’s a fact.
@lyalminchinton8825 Жыл бұрын
Agreed with Robert horry Hakeem is better then tim Duncan but disagree horry about 10 time better
@calioumarx428911 ай бұрын
They all we got sucka! Lol.
@solomonmalone7229 Жыл бұрын
1:35 you can be opinionated. You’re crying because people have their opinion back.
@josephus1983 Жыл бұрын
He actually has a point. Especially San Antonio where it's a one sport town. Places that have only one team to root for are like this. Example Spurs and Jazz
@JamesHardenoverKobe132 ай бұрын
@@JamesHardenoverKobe13your screen name is enough to prove you’re a dumb ass troll. Goodbye.
@josephus19832 ай бұрын
@@josephus1983 Tim fans probably don't even remember Tim choked at the free throw line. Yes. Even Tim was hackable because of this.
@JamesHardenoverKobe132 ай бұрын
❄️ bunny
@lincoln53102 ай бұрын
🐴
@malcomlittle2513 ай бұрын
My personal top 5.. Kobe, The dream, magic, steph, Rodman Realistically who would win the most games- MJ, magic, bird, lebron, Shaq
@keenenbenton9843 Жыл бұрын
I apologize in advance. Warriors fans tend to avoid that Curry use load management all season until playoffs time. Infact even when he had loaded teams during his prime they still need load management. Sure hope he can build up enough energy for the post season. Plus Curry never seen a full season in his entire career.
@JamesHardenoverKobe13 Жыл бұрын
Dream is much better than Tim Duncan. I say that and he has never taught me anything about basketball.
@dagrinch8921 Жыл бұрын
And Dream was not better than Tim. Lol.
@solomonmalone7229 Жыл бұрын
Horry talks a lot for someone who claim to fame is riding the coattails for EVERY ring he has
@zavthe1371 Жыл бұрын
It's called being a role player and a team player. It's important to win titles. Grow up
@MilkCrateRims Жыл бұрын
@@MilkCrateRims a role player should stay in a role players place
@zavthe1371 Жыл бұрын
@@zavthe1371 which is what exactly?
@MilkCrateRims Жыл бұрын
He contributed to each of those teams. He has every right to. You sound like a casual.
@younglove3362 Жыл бұрын
@@younglove3362 indeed
@MilkCrateRims Жыл бұрын
Worst prodigy ever never made the All Star
@scubasteve31498 ай бұрын
How does teaching the NBA Business make a player 10x better than another player? He lost all credibility.
@chengxiong6131 Жыл бұрын
That’s not what he said at all…………….. he just said he was biased because Hakeem was a mentor
@ManuelPerez-tp6re Жыл бұрын
@@ManuelPerez-tp6re that is what he said. Personal feelings don’t factor in to how valuable or talented a player is on the court. I’m a Chicago guy that watched the championship Bulls play in real time and I’m sure I have a bias towards Jordan… there’s no way I’d say he’s 5x, or even twice as good as LeBron though.
@NewClassicCarReviews Жыл бұрын
@@NewClassicCarReviews yeah I get that, but he was just going off a cuff. This dude is not an analyst, he’s an ex player that was shooting the shit with some buddies. He was just talking like an uncle at the BBQ would lol it was obviously not supposed to taken as gospel. He was just trying emphasizing that Hakeem was better and did what most people do when talking sports
@ManuelPerez-tp6re Жыл бұрын
no KD. WOOOOOOOOW Lebron KD Kawhi Duncan Allen\Manu. That's my team.
@febrispacarro1927 Жыл бұрын
Hakeem, KAJ, Shaq, Wilt, AD and Giannis were/are all clearly better players than Tim. His peak wasn't that good, he was more DRob level.
@benjaminan1183 Жыл бұрын
Won a title in 03 by averaging 10 more PPG than his next best scorer. Led SA in every major statistic, was the best defender in basketball, and didn’t even have an All-Star teammate whilst having the highest VORP and Win Shares for any title run ever, but he was clearly worse than the names listed Sure thing
@hardwoodthought1213 Жыл бұрын
@@hardwoodthought1213 Yep, regular season matters too and Wallace was better defensively in every way.
@benjaminan1183 Жыл бұрын
@@benjaminan1183 Yep, regular season matters, But the playoffs matter far more. Wallace barely beat out Duncan in most statistics, had Tim been allowed to average 9 PPG Duncan smokes Wallace defensively Let me know when KAJ, AD (LMFAO), Giannis or Shaq won a title without an All-Star teammate like Duncan did in 03, when any of them won a title with their second option scoring 14 PPG like Duncan or when they won a title leading their team in every statistical category like Duncan I’ll wait, Anthony Davis 😂
@hardwoodthought1213 Жыл бұрын
@@hardwoodthought1213 The RS and PS are equally important, 1 can't exist w/o the other, and stats only show half the story. As for the "had Tim been allowed to average 9 PPG Duncan smokes Wallace defensively," had my bike had an extra wheel, it would've been a tricycle. How much do you care about that hypothetical? How about this one: "Had Dirk stayed healthy, Duncan's greatest individual run goes up in smoke in the conference finals."
@benjaminan1183 Жыл бұрын
@@benjaminan1183 No question, they both matter, in the regular season at worst Duncan was the 2nd best defensive paint prescience behind Wallace, but when factoring in both RS and PS Duncan lies ahead And it does really matter. I respect guys like Bowen, Allen and Wallace, but it matters that they were defensive specialists. If you truly believe guys like GP and Duncan wouldn’t smoke them defensively had they been allowed to be 5th options offensively rather than the offensive leaders, you’re tripping. Here’s another point of reference, by the time Dirk checked out of game 3 with an injury SA were ahead 80-66 on their way to a 2-1 lead, I love when people act like Dallas were up 2-0 and winning the game when Dirk went down 3rd greatest individual playoff run ever after 91 MJ and 13 Bron, man beat 7 All-NBA players with his best teammate finishing behind Allan Houston in All-NBA voting, but now AD was the better player 😂
@hardwoodthought1213 Жыл бұрын
Lame excuse
@chongkie27 Жыл бұрын
Duncan is good but he's SOFT AF compared to Dream
@tjswan99357 ай бұрын
how tf he soft af with the resume he has and played against the toughest conference of all time 😂 quite the opposite of soft
No player is 10 times better than Tim Duncan
Maybe not 10x better, but significantly better! Olajuwon has 500 more points, 800 more blocks, 1,100 more steals and better FG %!
The dream played basketball without eating or drinking anything
I watched both played and I also think Hakeem olajuwan was a better player but I don't think it was 10x.. but this is my opinion. Hakeem was horrys mentor so yeah he learned a lot from him. With him playing with Tim ducan he would know what tim ducan was capable of doing and not..
Plus on the jump he said dream was 20x better not 10x he lied in the video to make it not sound as criminal
You can't compare the two. Duncan is the greatest PF ever as far as I'm concerned. Olajuwon is defo in the top 5 Centers ever. Also I agree with Rich about Jason Kidd. Defo one of the greatest PG ever as well. To me Stockton is the greatest PG ever.
If he had said Dream was better than Tim, even if he said Dream was flat out better, nobody would have a problem. He didn't have to say "ten times".
i think he meant is dream is ten 10 times better to him in term of relationship as a mentor, friend, team mate, teacher. in term as a player, dream is a better player, timmy has a better career. dream foot work, midrange, post move are better than timmy, and his ft shooting is better than timmy . team couldn't hack a dream, but they could hack a timmy.
I think you guys are misinterpreting what he's saying. Robert is admitting he's biased towards dream because Hakeem was a mentor who taught him life lessons. His relationship with tim was strictly basketball.
10x better was too much even hyperbolically. Even Michael Jordan was not 10x better than a rotation player in the NBA. However we measure being good, no player was that much better than another.
Despite "Big Shot Rob" is indifferent to San Antonio nowadays, there's no doubt his presence and contributions are so invaluable during his time there. Simply put: Without his G5 2005 Finals heroics, there's a higher chance of no 3rd Title for San Antonio. He and Mario Elie infused toughness and nastiness to the Spurs they acquired from winning consecutive Titles in Houston. And it's a bit disheartening despite his accolades, it seems his input was not well-accepted. He once cited they could have five (5) Titles in a row should the 0.4 shot didn't happen while he quipped the Spurs should have stayed big against the Mavericks like what the Heat did in 2006 Finals. Mike Munroe wrote an article about how Pop and the Spurs parted ways with Horry unpleasantly. IIRC, there was a funeral they attended. Pop and other Spurs reps were there with Horry, who that time (2008) a free agent. Horry said Pop will contact him about a possible contract or job capacity within the organization. Pop didn't called. No team expressed interest that led him to retire after 16 clutch-filled Seasons. "Dream" 10x better than Big Fundamental is an exaggeration. His explanation at least create a disclaimer. Let's face the fact some NBA players didn't like the ho-hum, low key atmosphere of San Antonio. And despite not winning consecutively, the fact they've won on five separate occasions is impressive in itself. And no doubt, Horry and Elie did their great part to make it happen, giving the Spurs confidence their system and culture is viable despite respective chagrins.
Well said
He said 20x better but it’s not a player 5x better than Timmy
Dream might be better, but not ten times better. Come on now.
that's a metaphor, its not literal...it is difficult to understand that?
@@leonardoyi3183 I think you mean hyperbole. That is not a metaphor.
@@SiriusV21 yes, an hyperbole...my bad...but don't take it literally, most people dont understand this type of comments.
Yeah, I think the 10 times part is what took it over the top. Its like saying Dream was 10 times better than Shaq...don't blame the spurs fans; sometimes the statement is flat out inaccurate.
The “ten times” part made it seem like Hakeem was LeBron James and tim Duncan was jakarr sampson
Thank you Robert for the Bernard King reference. That guy was a beast.
TIM DONCAN IS ONE OF THE GREATEST TO EVER PLAY THE GAME !!!!!!!!!!!
And then you woke up!
The greatest
Tom Chambers dunking on Mark Jackson would of been the most disrespectful poster to sign
With all due respect
Scottie pippen on Ewing?
I've noticed a lot of these players really don't understand how good dream was because that American myth machine got them buying their own hype
Duncan won 5 championships and Hakeem won 2. While Jordan wasn't playing at that. Stop it. No one is saying he isn't great, but Duncan is just better.
@@Daniel_AurA Dream wins at least 5 if you put him on those same spurs teams. Context matters, quit being lazy.
@@ManuelPerez-tp6re Exactly. he's an obvious casual with TRASH analysis.
@@Daniel_AurA Duncan is very GREAT and one of my favorite players. But he gets overrated a bit because of Pops ability to coach build a team and develop talent. For TD's last 2 titles HE WAS NOT the best player in the league or ON HIS TEAM. He played an ANCHORING defensive role quite well But TP Manu and then later Kawhi drove those latter rings. Hakeem is a cut above. You're a casual in need of a history lesson: SECOND YEAR dream DESTROYED THE PRIME SHOWTIME LAKERS when he HAD a halfway decent supporting cast. If dream had a squad throughout the 80s A LOT OF Y'ALL FAVES WOULD NOT HAVE AS MANY RINGS. It is strange how even modern day players ignore this, forgot, or sweep it under the rug. David Stern's narrative of the 80s worked, it looks like. MICHAEL JORDAN WAS NOT GONE FOR HAKEEMS SECOND RING: HE LOST TO SHAQ AND PENNY. HAKEEM THEN SWEPPPPPPTTTTTTTT the team JORDAN LOST TO. JORDAN is ALSO on record saying the bulls HAD NO ANSWER FOR HAKEEM and that DREAM WAS SIMPLY THE CENTER VERSION OF MICHAEL JORDAN. DREAM WAS THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE JORDAN WAS WORRIED ABOUT. DREAM WITH TIMS SUPPORTING CAST GETS 7 RINGS.
@@Daniel_AurA Duncan 5 championships, and his longevity is what makes him ranked so high on most all time list...But to be honest, if you compare regular season numbers at their prime of david robinson and tim duncan, David Robinson numbers are a lot better than Duncan's. Then, you see other players prime, like Shaq, Kobe, Olajuwon, they not only had better numbers than Duncan, they dominated a lot more than Duncan
They always asking about their top 5 players when honestly their opinion on the top 5 best teammates sounds hella interesting if they’ll be like what Horry had to say bout Dream or what RJ had to say about Kidd
Last I checked they consider Abdul-Jabbar Legend too so what's wrong with Bernard King he was a hugely talented player a bucket waiting to happen so all respect to Bernard King
The "modern" age of NBA started in the 80s. Bernard King was dominant in the 70s. Kareems was also dominant in the 70s (and 60s), but his success extended into the 80s. He gets looked at in both eras.
It's still a ridiculous statement to make. 10 times better? Hell nah. For me Duncan is in much top 10 and Hakeem is at number 12 all time for me. Both phenomenal all time legends but Horry was tripping with that comment, I remember when he said it on the Jump.
Timmy has won more...and I DO think he's Top 10....But Dream is RIGHT there...Dream was a team player but could consistently take his game to the stratosphere to win games....Timmy COULD do that - 2003 vs the Lakers - but didn't do it enough...If you switch them in their Primes, I believe that the Spurs win at LEAST one b2b set with Dream, and he wins at least 5 chips....The Rockets with Duncan still probably win a chip or 2 but Timmy don't win 5.... Dream was the best defender I've ever seen, as he could guard from the post ALL they way out to the 3 pt line, and from 1 through 5....the amount of times I've seen him strip PGs in the open floor is ridiculous. He's the ONLY player to be in the Top 10 in Blocks (1st) AND Steals (10th), PLUS he's the ONLY Center in the top SIXTY in Steals! He's also the only player to average 2blks/2stls in the same season for 5 different seasons...no other player has more than one. You might say that Timmy was a better teammate, but it isn't by much as all of Dream's teammates speak of him glowingly....and, as an athlete, its Dream by a mile.
If you watched them both play then you'd understand that Dream was better. And Tim Duncan is my favorite player
Why the air quotes before "changed the game"
His all time staring 5 is just like mine except I got Scottie pippen as my point forward.
Bird, Russell and JORDAN, MAGIC and Havelcheck. Magic and Jordan in the backcourt. All Celtics front court. Champions at every position. People forget about Havelcheck.
Top 10 no particular order Duncan, Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Mr. Russell, Bird/Curry! Dream there hanging out with the Barkley’s, Clyde’s & KD’s of the world on the benchl!!!!! DID SOMEONE SAY BIAS?????????????😂🤣😏😏😏😏💯
Overall if you are one of those people who place Duncan ahead of Olajuwon...it is more than likely because he won more rings. Outside of Assists from Duncan.... There is no Skillset On Offense or Defense that Duncan is better at in comparison to Hakeem. Hakeem was considered one of the more complete players ever and only had the correct personal to win a title maybe 4 yrs out of his whole 18 yr career. Rebounds...Olajuwon Block shots...Olajuwon Steals....Olajuwon Defense in Post...Olajuwon Ocassional perimeter D...Olajuwon Overall Defense... both were Great....But I would pick Hakeem. Hakeem holds the Block Record Hakeem is top 10 ever in Steals Hakeem was great at Post and occasional perimeter Defense Hakeem is considered the Greatest Defender Ever....with Names Like Bill Russell and Dennis Rodman. Freethrows...Olajuwon Midrange shot....Olajuwon Post Moves....Olajuwon Duncan had a bankshot which was really good Olajuwon had the Dream Shake which had about 7 different counter moves Assists....Duncan IQ....Even Duncan never had to go through the type of trials or high and Lows that Hakeem had to endure in his career... Hakeem had one good yr with Ralph Sampson when they made it to the Finals in 86 before Sampson got hurt and other Rockets got kicked out the league. Hakeem had to carry a team to the playoffs from 87 to 91 for about 5 to 6 yrs voided of talent by himself because the Rockets Management and Ownership wasn't committed to winning. Hakeem almost left the Rockets and they wasn't a contender again til 93...Olajuwon still had to win a title without another star in 94...and then got an older Drexler who only had about 2 good yrs left in him. They won in 95....then Olajuwon was hurt right at the beginning of the 96 playoffs and had already been out the last 2 weeks of the regular season. Olajuwon had one more run in 97...(which was the last yr Olajuwon was a good) Barkley joined the Rockets...all much older but formidable and not a deep team but they made it to the Western Conference Finals and lost. I would Like to see how Duncan would have fared in Hakeems shoes...Basically, 1. Duncan enter the league wins the championship in 99. 2. Then Robinson retires 3. San Antonio gets Greg Popovich as a head coach 4. Then San Antonio adds Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Bruce Bowen. Just when all is clicking and Duncan thinks he will win another title because he is building something Special with these players....NOW TAKE AWAY Greg Popovich, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, and Bruce Bowen and tell Duncan to win for the next 5 to 6 yrs by himself and see what happens. This is Olajuwon's career mostly.
I fuckin love nba behind the scene stories.
One is a PF and the other is a center. Why are we comparing them?
10x is so outlandish that Horry's explanation totally makes sense.
I remember when most players of your caliber, Rob, would stay with the same team their whole career (or damn close to it). We have a hard time realizing that players like you, who played for multiple teams, are not going to give all your loyalty to one team. You are going to have a different perspective. Thanks for explaining it. Still appreciate the years that we had you on the Spurs.
jordan, hakeem PF, shaq, kobe SF, lebron at PG. unstoppable... with my life on the line.
10x tho?!
10x better was a stupidly provocative thing to say.
Bernard King, Andrew Toney and Adrian Dantley are three of the most underrated scorers of all time. Horry has to have something against Shawn Kemp not picking him in his top 5 instead of Shaq for the latter's period of dominance was not quite much longer than Kemp's who denied the Rockets at least 2 and at most 3 titles because they would have gone on to beat the Bulls even with Rodman.
Some people will say they needed Thorpe against the Sonics in 1996. They didn't need Thorpe in 1996. They needed health.
@@JamesHardenoverKobe13 I agree with you.
SECOND YEAR dream DESTROYED THE PRIME SHOWTIME LAKERS when he HAD a halfway decent supporting cast. If dream had a squad throughout the 80s A LOT OF Y'ALL FAVES WOULD NOT HAVE AS MANY RINGS. It is strange how even modern day players ignore this, forgot, or sweep it under the rug. David Stern's narrative of the 80s worked, it looks like. DREAM WITH TIMS SUPPORTING CAST GETS 7 RINGS
Crazy to think that HOU could’ve got both MJ & Olajuwon. They would’ve had the NBA in an absolute chokehold lol
And at that time rockets didnt have their starting PG in the playoffs John Lucas 16pts 9ast per game. Just give Olajuwon a complete team and he would've beaten both showtime lakers and bird celtics in his second year!
@@10471804 🎯
Tim was too nice for hurry. Everyone else he picked were mean guys. Including Hakeem
I agree with Horry about Bernard King. For whatever reason, people have forgotten how unstoppable he was before he blew out his knee. Had the Knicks not traded him & paired him with Patrick Ewing after the draft,they likely would've won a championship because Bernard would've been the go to on offense instead Pat. Bernard King was MONEY.
Pat and Bernard never played a game together makes me sad
Is he sure it's not like uh 9x?
Top 5 for me; Magic Johnson,Michael Jordan,Lebron James,Hakeem Olajuwon and Shaq O Neal. My non MVP choice. Isiah Thomas, Grant Hill,Scottie Pippen,Shawn Kemp and Patrick Ewing.
I AGREE
Just ignore this guy. He can't get over that his time in the spotlight is done. Popovich kept him a year too long as a favor. I was embarrassed for him when they would put him in the game that last year.
He said the Dream is better because he taught him the game but he didn’t say because of skills or what ever which I’m not sure if he was eluding to or employing. So to me his explanation doesn’t compare player skills nor of court stuff, like he need to be more specific tbh honest or other people understood it but I didn’t
He pretty much admitted that he can't answer the question objectively.
Hakeem is better than Duncan, offensively and defensively
Ja on Malik
Dream might've been more skilled but Duncan won more so he's better.
When Houston Played San Antonio in the 90s Duncan was never even a factor!
Can’t say nothing about the ice man either, that’s fair that you have love for dream Robert, I get it however better basketball player no it’s close but Tim gets the edge 5 rings. As long ass it’s not envy for Tim because he dominated you in the paint and fry his no hall a game ass.
Benard King was a beast!!!!!!!
A Top5 Starting Five w/o Kobe "NOR" MJ!? #cantrespectthat
gotta agree with horry. duncan was good, but hakeem was on another level.
Why was magic winnin as a rookie OBVIOUSLY because of Karim DUH..!! so Karim is the greatest player to ever touch a besketball n greatest Laker ever......
Giannis on hardaway
Dream was not 10x better than timmy though. More like 3x better yes
3x better? Get fucking real, if Dream were better (and he wasn’t) it would be marginal at best
Duncan was more accomplished, but peak for peak, Dream was better. Not 10x better, but better.
Hahah dream wasn't having it
I would of love to dream vs Duncan from a skill standpoint I'll take Hakeem but he's not way better than Duncan
Hakeem at his peak was better than Tim Duncan at his peak imo. But not by much.
Agreed ! Hakeem’s peak was better but not 10 times better.
5 is more than 2
@@JamesHardenoverKobe13 I agree with this. I forgot about the 2007 Suns and the suspensions.
@@JamesHardenoverKobe13 Hakeem was a force of nature. They league took his quadruple double, he went out and got another one shortly after that. He probably could do more on the court than Tim. But, Tim won 5 with the team he had, Hakeem won 2 with the teams he had. The pecking order for sports is not based on personal opinion. It’s based on winning. You can only play the ones they put against you. Also, Any Tim Duncan fans that say his teammates were irrelevant would get laughed at by Tim himself. Teammates matter a great deal in Team sports. Wilt coulda had more rings had he had better team mates. But at the end of the day, he won 2, Bill had 11. Bogus suspension? Yeah, I hated that call too. But refs make mistakes and professional basketball players are supposed to know you’re not supposed to leave the bench. It would make me personally happier if I could say Hakeem was better, but he ain’t. And yes. I’m one of those Ring matter most guys.
@@JamesHardenoverKobe13 not after his knees went out. The dude got 3 rings with a bad knee. Admirable
Starks never banged it on Jordan. Lies, lies lies, lol
He dunked it on both, Jordan and Pippin. Stop it. The evidence is out there
Of course San Antonio doesn’t allow any smack talking towards the Spurs, it’s the only pro sports team the city has lol
Ok. Was Hakeem 10x times than Duncan, no. Perhaps better maybe .
Tim was to Hakeem, what Kobe was to Jordan
no way hakeem is over timmy😂
Dream would eat Duncan for lunch no comparison most skilled center in league history that didn't have the coaching and talent around him like Tim did but he would absolutely destroy Duncan head to head facts MJ feared Hakeem truth
And then Tim is 40X better than aHorry
Then just say I like 10x him better. He’s not 10x better.
Hakeem > Tim.... by a tiny margin.
Nobody cares about bus rider Horry 🤣😭😂 Timmy D 1000% better than Horry
Hakeem>TD every day
Lol, if Horry was a bus rider, then he was the rider that got out to fix the flat tires and bail everyone out. And he did it not once or twice, but 7 times.
@@kennethko1534 horry averaged 7 points a game on 42% shooting for his career. Stop it.
@@Daniel_AurA he also hit big time clutch shots that helped get those teams a championship , and that’s a fact.
Agreed with Robert horry Hakeem is better then tim Duncan but disagree horry about 10 time better
They all we got sucka! Lol.
1:35 you can be opinionated. You’re crying because people have their opinion back.
He actually has a point. Especially San Antonio where it's a one sport town. Places that have only one team to root for are like this. Example Spurs and Jazz
@@JamesHardenoverKobe13your screen name is enough to prove you’re a dumb ass troll. Goodbye.
@@josephus1983 Tim fans probably don't even remember Tim choked at the free throw line. Yes. Even Tim was hackable because of this.
❄️ bunny
🐴
My personal top 5.. Kobe, The dream, magic, steph, Rodman Realistically who would win the most games- MJ, magic, bird, lebron, Shaq
I apologize in advance. Warriors fans tend to avoid that Curry use load management all season until playoffs time. Infact even when he had loaded teams during his prime they still need load management. Sure hope he can build up enough energy for the post season. Plus Curry never seen a full season in his entire career.
Dream is much better than Tim Duncan. I say that and he has never taught me anything about basketball.
And Dream was not better than Tim. Lol.
Horry talks a lot for someone who claim to fame is riding the coattails for EVERY ring he has
It's called being a role player and a team player. It's important to win titles. Grow up
@@MilkCrateRims a role player should stay in a role players place
@@zavthe1371 which is what exactly?
He contributed to each of those teams. He has every right to. You sound like a casual.
@@younglove3362 indeed
Worst prodigy ever never made the All Star
How does teaching the NBA Business make a player 10x better than another player? He lost all credibility.
That’s not what he said at all…………….. he just said he was biased because Hakeem was a mentor
@@ManuelPerez-tp6re that is what he said. Personal feelings don’t factor in to how valuable or talented a player is on the court. I’m a Chicago guy that watched the championship Bulls play in real time and I’m sure I have a bias towards Jordan… there’s no way I’d say he’s 5x, or even twice as good as LeBron though.
@@NewClassicCarReviews yeah I get that, but he was just going off a cuff. This dude is not an analyst, he’s an ex player that was shooting the shit with some buddies. He was just talking like an uncle at the BBQ would lol it was obviously not supposed to taken as gospel. He was just trying emphasizing that Hakeem was better and did what most people do when talking sports
no KD. WOOOOOOOOW Lebron KD Kawhi Duncan Allen\Manu. That's my team.
Hakeem, KAJ, Shaq, Wilt, AD and Giannis were/are all clearly better players than Tim. His peak wasn't that good, he was more DRob level.
Won a title in 03 by averaging 10 more PPG than his next best scorer. Led SA in every major statistic, was the best defender in basketball, and didn’t even have an All-Star teammate whilst having the highest VORP and Win Shares for any title run ever, but he was clearly worse than the names listed Sure thing
@@hardwoodthought1213 Yep, regular season matters too and Wallace was better defensively in every way.
@@benjaminan1183 Yep, regular season matters, But the playoffs matter far more. Wallace barely beat out Duncan in most statistics, had Tim been allowed to average 9 PPG Duncan smokes Wallace defensively Let me know when KAJ, AD (LMFAO), Giannis or Shaq won a title without an All-Star teammate like Duncan did in 03, when any of them won a title with their second option scoring 14 PPG like Duncan or when they won a title leading their team in every statistical category like Duncan I’ll wait, Anthony Davis 😂
@@hardwoodthought1213 The RS and PS are equally important, 1 can't exist w/o the other, and stats only show half the story. As for the "had Tim been allowed to average 9 PPG Duncan smokes Wallace defensively," had my bike had an extra wheel, it would've been a tricycle. How much do you care about that hypothetical? How about this one: "Had Dirk stayed healthy, Duncan's greatest individual run goes up in smoke in the conference finals."
@@benjaminan1183 No question, they both matter, in the regular season at worst Duncan was the 2nd best defensive paint prescience behind Wallace, but when factoring in both RS and PS Duncan lies ahead And it does really matter. I respect guys like Bowen, Allen and Wallace, but it matters that they were defensive specialists. If you truly believe guys like GP and Duncan wouldn’t smoke them defensively had they been allowed to be 5th options offensively rather than the offensive leaders, you’re tripping. Here’s another point of reference, by the time Dirk checked out of game 3 with an injury SA were ahead 80-66 on their way to a 2-1 lead, I love when people act like Dallas were up 2-0 and winning the game when Dirk went down 3rd greatest individual playoff run ever after 91 MJ and 13 Bron, man beat 7 All-NBA players with his best teammate finishing behind Allan Houston in All-NBA voting, but now AD was the better player 😂
Lame excuse
Duncan is good but he's SOFT AF compared to Dream
how tf he soft af with the resume he has and played against the toughest conference of all time 😂 quite the opposite of soft