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Herb Dean’s a legend
For real dude he gets so much shit from the fans but he has been a very solid ref overall and deserves respect.
@@Wumbology378 yeah but thats only because he's in all the high profile fights which made his mistakes more apparent, he's definitely one of the best in the business overall.
Herb is a goated ref
Herb is not goated he's alright but he lets danas cash cows cheat constantly
Goat
It’s impressive that most refs can see so much in such a small amount of time. People like to point to the bad calls but there are many refs doing their best and making good calls
I'm ok with bad calls that er on the side of caution too. As a fan from the "dark ages, human cock fighting" era it's awesome we get top shelf fights televised almost every weekend. I'd hate for a late stoppage or bad doctor's call to send the sport back to the 90's and have mom's pulling their kids out of BJJ schools.
It’s one of the hardest jobs, having to making fight winning/losing decisions in a split second in front of millions watching
@@SuicideVanthat's a really good additional point, being ok with "bad" stoppages that erred on the side of caution. MMA refereeing is unique because they have a completely singular, unique view of the action. It's very common for me to have to rewind 2-3 times just to actually see the KO strike, usually when it's dirty boxing, in the pocket exchanges where the strike is an extremely short and quick one. My point is from the angles Fights are filmed from it is very easy to miss quite a bit of the little things that go on during a fight. Sure, we get the benefit of replay after the fact, but the refs are basically the third dance partner in these bouts.
I think, at least me, judge the refs based on how often they make bad calls. Everyone’s human but if they often make bad calls compared to good ones then I say criticism is deserved
For real. At least they not like Mario yamasahkey or whoever that ref was.
Honestly, that final stop by Herb Dean, where he noticed the arm being broke, just says to me that even if he fades with old age, he should go down as one of the best refs ever. Noticing something that no one else, not even the fighter or the doc noticed, until the replay, just goes to show how good the man was and still can be. Man gets a pass for some bad calls because when he's at his best, the man notices all the little things.
yeah he's freaking amazing!
That arm break happened in the blink of an eye. He saved him from ruining his arm if that fight continued.
Im pretty sure he already has that status, I sure as shit see him that way
@@zac8286I dunno bro I’m reckon you’ll see loads of people arguing w u on that point from what I’ve seen in these comments lol
@@sldarwin5615 These are the same f-ing people who will argue with you for hours that Elon Musk isn't a genius or that Alexander the Great wasn't a great leader both can be fed all the information in the world and would refuse to acknowledge them.
As a teen I remember got knocked out when a guy assaulted me with a complete surprise sucker punch. I thought I just fell and jumped back up straight away, ready to defend myself, no problem. But I had been completely out of it for like 15 seconds. Got knocked around a bit more on the ground and a few friends stepped in to push him away and get me up. To this day I remember it as just a fall and a bounce back. If it was a match, I would've protested against a ref stopping it. Getting knocked out is no joke
ur friends didnt bash his skull in
@@happyblt624 Nah. They pushed him off me and he ran. I guess they would've pursued if I would've been steadier on my feet, I dunno
When you regain consciousness your brain tries to fill in the gap and it'll completely fabricate a story to do so. The brain doesn't like being hard reset at all. It needs an explanation as to how you went from the ground to back a few feet standing. It's wild how much the brain can just make up on its own.
@@noodlesthe1st Yeah, it's a pretty wild machine for a pulsating gray mass 😅
@@noodlesthe1st Plot twist: The assaulter and friends were part of the fabricated story.
The best part about the Sylvia v Mir stoppage was when you can hear Herb saying "oh sh*t." right after the arm break when he rushes in. Classic. God bless all yall!
i love herb . people hate on him too much
Herb is a săvāge
Both guys won that night. Timmy got the "Bad Ass" of the Year award for sure. Dude is Nuts cause he would have known his arm just got snapped and went bonkers it was stopped. And it wasn't a fake bonkers.
In ufc 3 if you snap an arm while herb is the ref you actually hear him shout oh shit. I laughed my ass off
Why do you have the antichrist (Ariel Helwani) as your photo?
People have a hard time realizing someone coming back to consciousness a stoppage really quickly is often a sign of a good stoppage. At that point the ref is not declaring a winner, he's preventing further damage. And the fact that the fighter gets to their feet quickly is a job well done
My only problem with that is how we've seen refs continue fights where one fighter miraculously comes back after taking so much damage but that is understandably rare
@@GEEZYEA777 Happens pretty damn often.
Well said.
@@GEEZYEA777 very true. The last thing I'm saying it's that it's an easy call, because it's not, and some refs make horrible mistakes to both sides, but still, it's good that their main focus is protecting this fighter's lives and careers
@@xCr0nus
The "Problem" of early calls is based in the fact that the ref is the only person in the building with the goal of protecting the fighters, not letting them fight It seems dumb but with early, late and perfect calls looking super similar it's amazing how great the officiating is in the cage
The ref is also the person with the absolute best view of the fight, even the fighters aren't as aware of what's happening as the ref is. But of course a half drunk crowd watching from 30+ feet away always think they are right.
@@PRC533 Or the fully drunk people watching on TV with an even worse view.
@@s4tchm0j0n3s Actually you have a better view on tv than you have live because usually you just end up staring at a screen anyway, just from further away with a screeming crowd around you. The live experience isnt about the view, its about the atmosphere.
Herb is such a cool guy. My friend and I caught him walking to a bar after a fight and he invited us to join him, I'll never forget it! The guy loves what he does and he does it well!
As frustrating as it can be sometimes, I try not to fault a referee for stopping a fight what seems like too early. I tend to be much harder on refs who let things go on for too long.
Yeah I definitely agree. I’d rather a fight get stopped a few seconds short and be bummed, then have a guy get beaten to death because a ref didn’t call it in time
better to stop it early and have people pissed they lost their bets, than have it go on too long and end up with a fighter who is dead or injured to the point of never fighting again
Yeah, I’ve seen dudes go limp in a ground and pound and the ref doesn’t call it for like five or six seconds. It’s like, dude, those few seconds can be the difference between a mild concussion and having to drink your meals through a straw the rest of your life.
I take 300 early stoppage than 1 to late.
Nah
Herb dean is an absolute legend, at 53 years old he’s still the best ref in the game and going for dives to save the fighters from any further damage.
Idk why he’s considered the best, I’ve watched thousands of fights, but I’ve seen him make mistakes. Jason herzog has ever messed up from what I’ve seen
@@phoomphgaming5538 You just have to Google "Jason Herzog bad stoppage" to find it. But I agree, he's way better than Herb.
@@phoomphgaming5538 mate you know the amount of fights they ref? of course at some point you're goinng to cock it up a few times, you cant tell me that you've done something for so long and not made a mistake, we're all human
@@phoomphgaming5538jason herzog is my favorite ref, but he has definitely messed up. i think he let the glover teixiera vs anthony smith fight go on for like 6 minutes longer than it should have
It's funny you say this as if Dean isn't the ref with the reputation for NOT stopping fights before serious injuries happen.
This is really good that you've done this. Crowds need to admit that we don't see what the refs see more often (no, they don't always get it right, but they're still generally in a better position than us). And going back afterwards and admitting when we're wrong is a skill we all need to practice more. And not just in watching fights, but every aspect of life
Who would think there was a reason why it was decided to put a people inside the ring alongside the fighters to make the calls.
@@luis-ie3de I know, right? Crazy!
Jason Herzog is the most underrated ref in the sport bar none. Always thought he was a great ref. He watches the action intently with 100% concentration always. Communication is excellent, and he gives the fighters enough space to move. I was a ref back in the early-mid 2000s where we weren't trained at all. Made a couple of mistakes myself, but I had the benefit of not having TV replays or thousands of fans screaming. It's a damn hard job. It's different now, but back then every single ref was a fighter, including myself. We used to balance safety with spectacle, honestly, with the emphasis on safety of course. I refereed quite a few fights where the guys ended up fighting in the UFC with one of them joining the Hall of Fame. I remember refereeing a show (we used to ref full shows on our own, 10 - 15 fights per show sometimes) where there were I think 10 fights lined up and each one was over within the first minute. Promoter (former UFC fighter who I won't name) was shitting himself because obviously you book the venue for a set time and there were a couple of hundred casual fans there expecting a show. There was a pro-wrestling exhibition at the midway point, and the promoter set up a few impromptu fights that weren't scheduled (used to happen all the time, people volunteering from the crowd) and one of the wrestlers volunteered. When the fight started it was clear he'd never been hit before and was turning his back and running. I had to warn him a couple of times, and ended calling the fight off for evasion after only a couple of minutes. The promoter was not happy at all, and neither were some of the fans, and I remember thinking "Shit this could go badly for me". But I was relieved when the fans on the whole started cheering for a good stoppage and quite a few approached me after the event to say the same. No ref wants fighters getting hurt, and it was an awkward position for me to be in because I knew the show suffered for it, but you can only work with what you have in front of you.
@@kimisu9870 I think he used to be more underrated than he is now because for a long time he wasn't reffing ufc fights so a lot of fans didn't even know about him
Ref dealing with baroni’s punches like a dad dealing with his 7 year old sons hissy fit! 😂
Why would a ref put it on the fighter to call the fight over instead of just calling the fight over? Why ask one fighter a question and disadvantage him?
@masonmayer7984 it's a verbal submission in this case, which is 100% valid. The man ate a barrage of punches, it wasn't going to get any better, so he checked for verbal sub first to give a fighter a chance to continue, then the ref would interviene himself. I guess, not an expert
@@masonmayer7984There's no really good way to submit when you're getting ground pounded so the ref asking them verbally is valid.
@@masonmayer7984 Do you want the fighters to fill out a written form while they're being choked out?
Love this video! Being a ref is one of those jobs where if you do your job perfectly you get no credit, but the slightest mistake or missed call and they’re crucified and called out for it for the rest of their careers (sometimes deservingly so given the nature of the business). But it’s still nice to see them get the flowers they deserve every once and a while!
Reminds me of being a mom, oddly enough. Huh.
Referees get their credit for doing their job well constantly, on air, from the commentators. The community pays attention to all the referees and their actions, being a constant talking point in video essays and comment sections. Top comment on this video is crediting Herb Dean as a legend with balanced comments talking about him allowing cheating in high profile fights.
That's because people bet large sums of money on these fights
@@marcosromero3738 Incorrect. You must not have watched many UFC or Boxing fights,
@@williamcorbett9067 why waste my money on such things when i can watch them for free on the internet? And i've seen more fights than you ass-ume
That front kick to the ribs is another example of how deadly that kick can be to the body, or face. I'm surprised more people don't use it. The only fighter I can think of that used it a lot in his prime was Mcgregor. Vitor Belfort, Randy Couture, and more recently Tony Ferguson will tell you just how effective it was...to their faces.
Lyoto Machida
@@Nerd_of_Anarchyi was just about to say that
Steven Seagal taught Anderson Silva that kick, 100% true, Steven said so himself
Anderson Silva or Steven Thompson?
Max Holloway is another leg murderer
Herb Dean and Big John are two legends in MMA. The best refs that have been in MMA their understanding of the fight game and ability to make split second decisions that protect fighters health but also allow a fight to continue when necessary is such an under appreciated skill. Those two have a complete mastery of that ability.
i genuinely don't understand how anyone could've thought the henderson vs. fedor stoppage was early. emelianenko was *clearly* out cold for at least 3 seconds
Definitely the end of an era seeing him going on a 3 fight-losing streak. I think that was an understandably tough thing for a lot of people to accept. But yeah, I agree with you, doesn't mean the ref needed to give him a needless amount of chances to survive.
@@MMAOnPoint appreciate the reply! been watching for a few years now he went out like a warrior at least
Imagine if the replays were available in MARIO YAMASAKI'S days as a Ref.... He would wake up and choose VIOLENCE 😂😂
Mario would've probably became a better ref then again he did admit he watches compilation of himself that he made of himself which is kinda strange .
Why? I still remember yamasaki to be an god awful referee, his decisions as a ref were questionable because he didn't stop fights not because he stepped in too early or am I mixing up shit now?
@@MartialGlobe You missed the JOKE 😂😂. You made it even FUNNIER!
He'd of been let go way way before he was. A poor ref got people hurt for real Wen no need
What do you mean? Replays have been a thing for my entire life. (im older than the entire sport of MMA)
I distinctly remember seeing Tim's arm snap just before herb stopped it and was shocked by seemingly no one else catching real time. I was shocked everyone was so upset when it was very clear to me. Thankfully the replay cleared it up
The most shocking thing to me is that his arm broke and and HE challenged the stoppage. I know adrenaline can numb pain, but there's no way he didn't feel that lol.
@@yewtewbstew547I guess he didn't. I see absolutely no reason why someone would try to continue fighting with a broken arm; you clearly can't win anyway, why risk getting even more injured?
In defense of the fighters protesting; when you're tired and get rocked but recover quickly, it just feels like a microsecond. These judges are the reason people have better outcomes statistically after fights. Great video.
Oh for sure, can't blame the fighters one bit! After a flash KO you can wake up so damn confused.
This is what gets me about the hate the refs get. Look at how many tough calls Herb Dean got right. Plus the calls that were just normally correct. Yet I still see people call him "the worst ref" because he made some wrong calls or just calls people didn't agree with. It's a thankless job and I'm glad you are trying to balance things out a bit.
Most of the reason fans call him the worst ref now is that the other refs that used to be even worse have retired/been fired.
I mean, both things can be true. Herb WAS a great ref- one of the best in the sport- and I think anybody who’s been watching long enough would acknowledge that. But at the same time, we can acknowledge that in recent years his performance has been starting to slip and errors have been becoming more frequent
Herb was overall a great ref. Hut I think most of the hate comes from conir vs khabib fight. Herb did awful there
@@alugificatoryeah but if all the bad refs got fired and he’s still here and had some insane calls just find it odd that it doesn’t show people how talented he really is everyone makes mistake but to say he isn’t great would be insane
Herb Dean reportedly makes half a million a year, so thankless is a biiiiit of an exaggeration.
I've always heard fighters say that Herb Dean is the best in the business I'm glad he's getting some recognition here, MMA officiating can be a thank-less job
Herb was the goat, but he’s fallen off recently.
As someone else already said: herb dean’s the only ref to have a prime
A good ref is worth their weight in gold. It always amazed me - the footwork they use to stay out of the way of the fighters and not get cornered or blocked intovthe ropes/cage. I love, with all of the attitudes, Fedor and Hendo smiling and shaking hands with no animosity, both cool, respectful guys. 😎
Dude, this was a legitimately awesome vid! It was really great research and highlighting the good calls from refs… some I definitely hadn’t seen. Thank you for clearing some of these up and giving one back to the refs!
Askren V Lawler was a good stoppage. Dean got shit for it but it took everyone multiple replays to figure out what was going on. He considered injury to the spine as well as consciousness. The choke wasn't getting any looser and not being able to defend yourself is a valid reason to stop.
Good stop even Lawler took it in stride was just a bit irritated(understandable ) but patted Dean on the back .
I think most people just thought the whole situation was weird.. Which it was. If you don't stop the fight seeing an arm go limp you're not only a bad ref, but a dangerous one too
It was a fantastic stoppage. Before a fight you're told if you're in a chokehold, if you're still conscious make sure it's known to the referee. Lawlers arm went limp in an extremely dangerous choke, I believe that Lawler was out, and regained consciousness immediately, just like in No.10 on the list.
@@jordanclerkin1998100% agree. You had to stop it.
@@TheSquad4life At the time, I just thought it was Lawler being a good sport even when he clearly disagreed with the stoppage. And then the replay showed Herb checked his arm and it was limp. A good call when a lot of us were starting to lose faith in Herb's calls.
You know RDA is a beast because he knocked out a notoriously hard to knock out dude in Ben Henderson. I remember watching that live and being so surprised. Then he went on to wipe the floor with Pettis after his Wheaties promotion. Even when RDA lost his title to Alvarez, he still managed to stay on his feet despite taking heavy shots. Respect to RDA. A real BMF.
You just had to bring up the Wheaties 🤣
MacGuyver has never been in a UFC fight. Not once. Not ever. Just stop it.
During my late teens I got knocked out so hard during a match that I can't remember anything between standing in front of my opponent and getting walked out of the hall by one of my partners. The first thing I do remember is walking towards the exit with my buddy holding me at the wrist and at the neck and I was like, "Wait a second. Why the hell are we leaving, I have a match to fight!" and he was like, "Dude, I've told you three times already and I'm telling you another time: You were lights out dead on the mat." Fifteen years later my buddies still joke about that incident sometimes when an evening is about to end. ;D But yeah, I can definately understand someone who's out and starts to protest as soon as his brain's back online again. :D
Thanks for taking the time to put this together man, really gives a fresh perspective & insight as to both how challenging it can be to ref, and how Perspective can change everything. Awesome to see some of these fights again with this breadown, almost nostalgic, time is just hauling-ass right now. Great time to be an MMA fan, LoL. Thanks again for posting, great vid!
Refereeing is definitely one of those thankless jobs that deserve a lot more respect. Mainly because we only really hear about it when something goes wrong or they fuck up. When they're doing their job well, they disappear into the background more or less and let the fight take center stage. I think the mma community (and sports in general) would do well to recognize how important and skilled refs are. Imagine how much worse injuries and stuff would be without a third man in the cage.
It bothers me so much the standard they're held to and the shit they get, like try run your sport without refs and realize how much they do for your org. Especially in sport fighting like MMA where fighters can "accidentally" throw an illegal technique and a refs has made some unforgivable error in not giving a competitor enough warnings on thier own mistakes.
@@conor9966 There's also the problem of some athletes just genuinely not understanding the rules of their own sport. I've heard plenty of refs complain about that. A lot of these athletes are gifted physically, but not so much intellectually lol.
I’ve literally never understood the controversy around Hendo v Fedor. Like, Fedor LITERALLY FACEPLANTED AND HAD SHOTS RAINING DOWN ON HIM. If anything I think it’s a bit of a late stoppage
Tanner Boser using the fence with his fist and the commentary going off on the ref until the replay shows he never grabs the fence at all might be one of my favorite ones!
Mad respect for still finding interesting top 10 lists every now and then. You've been at it long enough that a lot of times I wonder if it's even possible to make a top 10 list that isnt just the same events from other lists you already made.
Imagine how great this video would be if the UFC let you use replays, imagine how many more fans they would gain from allowing free promotion of the sport.
Not to say it's not great now, excellent editing, script, and speaker. But it would better with that footage. Props to the creators.
UFC management isn't smart enough to come to that conclusion.
These channels don't draw in fans to mma , the ufc gets fans then the fans find these channels during lunchbreak . Your suggestion would definitely make it better for current fans though
@@christophergallagher3845 i disagree mma on point did a lot to bring in new fans and extreme casuals into the sport and become more invested, it sure did for me
@@christophergallagher3845I can say for a fact this channel gas grown me into a much bigger fan than I could have been before. And people interested in the sport in any way benefit greatly from high quality content like this, legitimizes the whole thing.
Benson was just trying to find his toothpick 😂
He left it up his boyfriends anus. I met Benson when I was with Anthony Pettis and it was like 2 months after the showtime kick. I told Benson he was part of my favorite sequence in MMA. He said, "That's awesome, what happened?" I said, 'When Anthony kicked you off the cage.' Anthony Pettis was dying laughing and Benson was a great guy and said, "Ya that was a pretty cool kick, huh?!" Lol
McCarthy and Dean are 2 of the best refs I've ever seen, super quick and on the ball and have likely saved lives by making good calls.
Great video man. Its important to shine light on the good work these refs do.
Herzog was probably influenced by the guy reaching for his side on the front kick reaction. If it was a cup shot, then the guy would have immediately collapsed to his knees, not reach for his side and lower himself down.
Videos like this are important. Yes, referees mess up, but they’re also amazing. A lot of the time, they get it right and that deserves praise.
Two of these fights I still have on DVD: Arlofski’s win and Frank Mir’s breakage. I remember how fast those wins came, especially. Arlofski’s. 6 seconds into the match, and a KO that was so fast, you could only catch it in slow motion. And Mir breaking Silva’s arm? Damn, the instant replay made me wince. Good call on both of those matches.
Offtopic: I just need that off my chest. I usually never comment on videos on youtube yet I‘m watching you guys constantly for the last 3 or 4 years. I just wanna thank you from the bottom of my heart for your online presence, quality content, availability, way of treating your fans, possibilities and opportunities to get to know you guys and so much more. I watched your stuff every day and night, and always before going to sleep. You guys are built into my daily routine and I genuinely wouldn‘t know what to do if you stopped. You accompanied me for so many things, like the ending of my 6y relationship, the horrible time after and even until now. You guys most certainly don‘t know how much of a positive influence you have on so many lifes in so many beautiful ways. THANK YOU GUYS.
@@raptorjesus4142 He was tying to get Likes from being the 'Nice Fan' 😂😂.
Big Herb Dean is the man. Always ride by his calls, especially after the robbie lawler situation, and robbie backed him up. Hell of a ref.
Absolutely love this topic, it's really humbling to see how professional these refs are to protect the fighters first and foremost
Great video and a great concept. Ref calls in many sports have been getting worse. Many VERY questionable calls with no repercussions. Having said that it's nice to see controversial calls being vindicated in replays.
Some refs in sports are just terrible, but they maintain their position because they have a union **coughangelhernandezcough**. Which is what they're supposed to do, but looks bad because they have to protect someone who is really just bad at their job.
I cant remember what mma promotion it was but it was a obscure one. The crowd boo the ref and then the replay shown the lowblow and the crowd stop booing. The the ref did the DX suck it at the crowd .
Yeah, id do something like that too. "Oh? Now you're not booing? Suck it!"
there are kids in the crowd. telling them to suck it is gross and weird.
I watched Aljo vs Yan 1 live and remember very clearly Mark telling Yan that Aljo is down so no knees. Honestly I could tell watching that Yan was getting ready to throw that knee as soon as he started pushing down on Aljos head.
Yeah, he yells DOWNED.
Do you think Yan could undrstand it good?
Yea you don’t get any better than Herb Dean, really great vid
Yeah, I remember thinking real time "don't do it, don't do it, awww shit he did it!"
its probably because yan is natively russian and they speak a different language then english compared to the us offiicials. so when he went to say it and warn yan couldnt understand what was being said.
Big John is one of the best. No one should ever question any of his calls.
I met Paul Buentello shortly after at a Rage in the cage event in Phoenix. He was so humble about that moment and was so enthusiastic when talking to me and my friend. He was so happy to sign a bunch of stuff for us and we talked for about 15 mins. he was a total class act!
In the Sylvia vs Mir fight you can actually hear Herb say “oh shit!” and the injury still causes Sylvia serious trouble to this day
The arm bar when the forearm snaps makes me cringe every time
All of them do 😅 and dosent seem to get better with age the leg snapping of kicks is horrible but my worst is knee bars and heel hucks ive torn all muscles in my knee and that pain is like being winded but you can't get your breath back because its like your body cant quite take in the pain haha fun times eg
Sport at the highest level is so fast it's easy to miss these. Great video.
Im still confused at what sylvia thought he was gonna do with a broken arm, i heard him say it still bothers him to this day, so imagine how messed up it would be if herb didnt catch it lol
I'm just appalled that the doctor thought he was okay to keep going. How can you be a ringside doctor and not be able to spot a broken arm?
@@TommyNir if the arm isn't bend at all and the fighter isn't complaining how should the doctor know its broken? its not like they have x-ray vision. unless you saw like herb that the arm got snapped it just looks like he was in an armbar andthe ref stopped the fight befpre any tapping
Crazy how recent the Chairez vs lacerda fight was and how adamant the commentators were that it was a bad call when watching it live. I originally thought that arm going limp and the ref checking to see if he was out lead to an appropriate stoppage but the commentators actually convinced me otherwise until i saw different angles and replays.
After watching that last fight, Dominic Cruz has quickly become my least favorite commenter. Even watching live you could see why the ref called the fight with repeatedly checking the arm and it going limp. Cruz jumped all over that guy. Saying the refs need to take classes and get in subs and see how they feel. Get out of here Dom. Ever since Cejudo beat the snot out of him, he's become a intolerable know it all. Whenever he is on the commentary team I know I'm about to hear him try and prove how smart he is for the next 3 hours. He can't lose with grace and he sure can't commentate because he just dominates the discussion the entire time.
Never agreed with something more. It’s like DC trying to wrestle everyone now, but less fun and acceptable because DC is likeable and we all know he isn’t trying to ‘prove’ how good he is. Dom is a narcissist which is boring and predictable when they’re stuck on the sidelines in their head thinking they can still do it.
Dom lost with grace when Cody put on a masterclass and took his belt, didn't he? I like Dom's technical analysis of fights. DC is annoying af, a blowhard, asterisk "champ champ".
Silva did an interview shortly after saying while he thought he was fine during the fight he found out it was broken when he got to the hospital and Dean absolutely did the right thing
It was very refreshing hearing the positive for a change thank you
I was telling my friend while watching the first fight that when that arm went limp, even if he didn’t tap or wasn’t completely choked out yet, he stopped intelligently defending which is grounds for the ref to stop the fight for the fighter’s safety
It's good to see vids like this showing the positive things that happen in the sport.
Excellent video brother, well edited, good commentary
in defense of the rib break: that last angle shown is key: his hand went right for his ribs showing something was wrong. then there’s the fact that the kick did not actually hit his groin- it hit the top of his thigh and slid down. the referee saw his reaction, the glance off of the groin wasn’t what he was reacting to as he was hurt bad and wasn’t moving right.
*then there’s the fact that the kick did not actually hit his groin- it hit the top of his thigh and slid down.* It looks like it went into the ribs, moved down, then the dude extended his leg into the guys groin which then caused it to slide down the thigh. Should have been a no contest at least.
I felt bad for Chris Tognoni. I thought he was out to watching it live.
He was out. His whole body quit responding, and it took him like 2 seconds to start moving normally again when he tried to stand up.
@@Highsen Dude is completely lost when the arm is coming out of his neck, he look at both sides to understand where he is.
@@auadGood recovery from him but yeah, I thought for sure he was out when it was happening, looked tight
The dude was for sure out, even when “relaxing” your arm doesn’t go completely limp like that, especially when the ref is repeatedly grabbing at it to make sure you’re still awake
I was thinking he wasn’t just because the arm that was in the guillotine was not being pulled up toward the ear or into the carotid very much, so I figured he had space and couldn’t be choked out from there. I guess we’ll never know but I’m still not certain whether he was out or not because his whole body doesn’t visibly go limp, just the arm. Regardless that’s on the fighter not the ref, Tognoni checked repeatedly and if you aren’t out and let your arm drop like that…you’re an idiot 😂
Another good one at least from my perspective was Bobby Green vs Krause. Bobby kicked Krause low earlier in the fight, but the finishing kick was to the body. I recall Krause trying to play it as a low blow while ppl online were roasting Green, but Big John didnt hesitate to call it, and when the replay goes u see why.
A bunch of craziness in here that i really wanted to talk about but sam rockwell as zaphod was priceless!!🤗🤗😁😁 It made me laugh and realize, none of this matters!! Thank you guys!!😁😁👍👍
This is such a good channel, been watching their videos since they first started a few years ago, and it’s great that they’re still making super interesting videos and doing well today
Thank you for this one. If only every sport would make a list like this. Another reason why I love this channel.
Love MMA On Point taking on topics that attack or support every possible role, showing the wide range of possible viewpoints and perceptions
I really wanna see them do a crossover with napoleon blownapart another mma guy on KZhead but more documentary style focus
I laughed at 14:49 when you said that, "Tim Sylvia found himself DEEP into an armbar attempt," because technically, his arm broke where it did because it wasn't deep enough 🤣 I enjoy all your videos, man, keep up the good work!
Imagine how much damage Sylvia would have done to himself if he threw another hard right with his forearm broken. That may have ended his career at 28 years old.
"I clearly felt the tap" Could easily have been on this list. UFC 203: Stipe Miocic vs. Alistair Overeem
Holy crap I had no idea about that different angle from the first clip. Totally changed my opinion on it as well.
Herb Dean is a legend for saving Tim Silvia's arm from possible permanent damage. He stopped the fight, telling Silvia his arm is broken. Silvia proceeded to insist his arm is fine. Subsequent x-rays revealed multiple fractures that required several surgeries. With that armbar Frank Mir earned his BJJ blackbelt.
Great video, thank you.
Thank you for clearing Chris T's name on that first one. I ALWAYS thought it was QUITE clear from the moment it happened. (I was watching like, "WHAT'S the confusion here??") Arm CLEARLY went limp after at LEAST TWO checks - and now we see it was even more. 👍👍 Vindicated.
This is a great video. We hear all the time about referee's mistakes, but it's easy to forget that those mistakes are small islands in a sea of consummate professionalism. It's like what they say about drummers, that you remember when they f*ck up, but you don't notice the majority of the time when they get it right.
People can say what they want about Sterling, but the man needed surgery because of that knee. He did not milk it in the slightest.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I wanted to say that it's a really original premise! Can't wait!
The only really bad stoppages are the ones that are too late. The referee is there to prevent serious injury or death and I'd rather see a rematch than a funeral.
The man the myth, the legend Herb Dean 😂
Top quality research dude. All killer, no filler.
Great video! Some of the best refs ever being vindicated - brilliant topic!
No matter what I'll always look to forgive an early stoppage, with an early stoppage you know for sure that reff actually cares about the fighters but with a late stop i question if that person should even be in the ring
Wow I'm thankful for than fan vid of the first one for Chris
Amazing vid. Thank you for taking the time
Randomly recommended vid. Liked for showing good calls when it looked bad. A good ref is the best friend of every fighter.
i dont even know why people were mad over the first entry he should never have let his arm drop like that
I watched that live and thought it was a good stoppage.
The Tenacious D clip is a massive W
This mainly showed me how risky this sport is. Everyone gets the risk, but it’s hard to forget how easy and quick it is to injure yourself in ways the injured person can’t even notice
Here after jiri v pereira was rightfully stopped
I still can't decide if Tim Sylvia was so juiced on roid rage he didn't notice his arm broke, or so juiced on roid rage he just didn't care, and wanted to fight anyway.
adrenaline will do that to u. no steroids needed. he definitely felt that as soon as he was done fighting or the next morning
He knew his arm is broken but he pretended nothing happened in order to not lose the title
Shout-out to Big John and Herb 🤘. Right or wrong they always have their hearts in the right place
Yeah, that's the refrain of every mass murderer in history
This was a great list! Great job y’all
That Johnny Bedford fight, he was very, very clearly having a fencing response. Like, it could be used on the Wiki page as the picture for it lol
Honestly, Herb used to be the best ref in the game. Even better than Big John. He's fallen far from grace. I feel like Reffing is an insanely difficult job and maybe some time away would help. You might have to install trucker-like rules for them.
not here to say you’re wrong but i’m genuinely curious and would like to know how he’s fallen off? so i can understand why people have been saying this about herb dean. i tune in to 9/10 ufc events and 7/10 one championship events so i see him in the cage quiet a bit and he always seems to make pretty good calls with an occasionally questionable stoppage but those still seem few and far between 🤷♂️
Nah herb is solid. He is good.
I am curious as well. In what was has Herb Dean "fallen far from grace"? To be very clear; this is a sincere question.
This topic is so niche but very fascinating. It really makes you appreciate how alert a referee has to be to call these fights. Money, status, pride, humiliation, and redemption on the line and one bad call sours the whole experience.
Great video topic.
Good analysis. Well done!
Feeling like Pereira vs Jiri will get on this list
Ill do you one better and idgaf how unpopular this is, im right. Lawler vs askren was a good stoppage. The arm going limp is always a justified stoppage and the thumbs up is easy to miss in the heat of the moment. Idc if robbie was trying to fake him out, if he was that was a negative iq move. (Just for posterity sake, robbie is in my top 3 favorites)
I love the Askren Lawler fight! And it was a correct stoppage.
Very interesting cheers On Point !
This was really well done!!!
By the way…..DAMN good list and research. After being a fan of 20 years, I’ll admit I’ve booed stoppages before then watched replays and realize, dang that was a potentially life saving stoppage or a career saving one at least. Dom Cruz still argues to this day, but dude was OUT. Peterson saved Cruz from permanent CTE
Anytime I hear Cruz talking about it I get so annoyed. He’s still so salty about getting his brain saved.