We Gave the Subaru AWD System Another Try, Then This Happened...
2018 ж. 15 Қаз.
903 516 Рет қаралды
( www.TFLcar.com ) We Gave the Subaru AWD System Another Try, Then This Happened...
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_"We Gave the Subaru AWD System Another Try, Then This Happened..."_ Oh, wow! So, what happened? _"Er, it did what it was supposed to do..."_ Yeah, yeah, and then, *what happened?* _"Nothing else."_ Seriously?
Idiots
Attempt at a Subaru roast fail
That happened because the car was slightly elevated on the driver's side and if the tire is slipping on the other side it has less traction and it will automatically go to the passenger side. Just simple mechanical physics. Not anything special here. Now in quantum physics .......
The Fast Lane Me: don't recommend channel
Thank you for saving me 12 minutes.
As a Subaru lover, I think that these tests are awesome. Testing with default tires is definitely the way to go. I can't wait to see more vehicles abused this way.
I really like how dedicated you guys are on showing the consumer what they are actually buying, love the channel! Cheers!
My subaru was in the shop for oil consumption and so as a loaner they gave me a 2018 forester with eyesight. i went offroading, got stuck in a deep mud hole and was spinning like crazy. i thought i was screwed and stuck and i was deep in the woods. well, threw on xmode, and just floored it, it figured itself out and crawled me out. i was AMAZED how well it worked. all 4 tires were in deep mud. that was with traction control on and xmode. amazing system.
With unsuitable tires as well i assume
Isn't there a class action lawsuit against Subaru right now? 05 to 2017. Engine failure.
@@stevenpena1701 15-17 wrx engine was one that was settled i believe
Andrew deep mud hole ..... ok buddy
a friends 2014 (not 100% sure of exact model year) Forester is on it's 4th engine.
2 buttons means 4 different tests.
And we just saw 3. What about the fourth?
This
A couple thoughts: 1) Here in snow-country, it is common-knowledge to slide the shifter into MANUAL mode to get unstuck. This changes the AWD algorithm and torque-distribution to the wheels. It also keeps the CVT in low ratio where you want it. 2) Do not "floor it" whilst attempting to get unstuck... some would consider this a stupid thing to do. (my engineering training would say that static-friction is ALWAYS higher than dynamic-friction)
Same applies to racing traction, once you go over the static friction into kinetic friction it’s like the tire’s grip goes off a cliff.
😊😊
Excellent video! Finally a good explanation and analysis. I also appreciate that you discussed tire traction. During your last test the traction limit of the rear tire became apparent. With only one tire burdened with the task of propelling the entire car up the ramp, the limit became evident as the rear right tire began to spin. This proves that X-Mode does its job very well and can be the difference between being stuck or getting out. I am quite certain that had you done this test on level ground or not so steep ramp, the one tire would have enough grip to get the car off the ramp. Whats evident in this test is that all season tires can limit the capability of Subaru’s AWD system. If one plans to use the car off road or on slippery surfaces (snow/ice/mud/sand), one should install a more aggressive tire. Thanks for the good work. Next time, try the test with VDC on and X-Mode on.
Great video! I applaud the amount of effort that went into making it not only a very accurate representation of the vehicle's abilities/disabilities but also a watchable, informative and fun video as a whole. The Outback has been my vehicle of choice for many, many years and yet I'm still learning so many amazing bits of info. CHEERS for that, MATE!
The test is fundamentally flawed, and they should know better, as there's a really simple explanation for the results they found: there's no weight over the pavement tire. The degree to which the suspension is compressed is proportional to the vertical load applied to the tire. By placing the rear of the vehicle on an uneven surface, while the front of the vehicle is on an even surface, you are forcing more vertical load to be transferred through the rear left tire and less is transferred through the rear right tire on the pavement. The uneven forces between the left and right rear tires result in the equal and opposite change at the front of the vehicle; you've essentially transferred the majority of the vehicles weight to the *front right* and *rear left* tires, both of which are on rollers. This is why the vehicle appears to so easily 'rock' back and forth along this skewed axis. Another factor here is the sway bars. By raising the other three wheels up onto the roller assemblies, the rear swaybar pulls *upward* on the pavement tire's suspension, preventing it from seeing its real-world load even more. Swaybars limit the left & right wheels ability to act independently, as a function of the ratio of the spring rate of the suspension vs the torsional stiffness of the swaybar. This is also why offroad cars typically do not have swaybars. You can see the tire struggling to even maintain contact with the pavement. If you put the 4th wheel on a *locked* roller, or some other equal-height surface, ensuring proper weight distribution, you would see drastically different results.
Good point but the same thing to a much greater extent happens off-road
While off-roading is full of uneven surfaces and uneven tire loading, its effect on traction is the exact opposite of what's going on here in this test. If you're off-roading and a tire is seeing vertical load, it's because it's on a hard surface and it probably has traction. In this test, the only tires that are seeing vertical load, you've put on rollers.
@@TFLcar Listen to this guy, he knows what's up^^. The simple fact that the pavement tire spun means there's no way to push that car forward with this amount of traction, regardless of the AWD system.
You are correct that the wheel is lighter but is the difference with the missing weight on that tire really going to matter for customers this car is aimed at? Do a customer need more torque transfer than what has already been proven here? One could argue that the goal is to spin the tire to pass. And it is not a sway bar from a sports car and the drop no higher than a low curb.
Very good point. I'm not sure if they're anti Subaru or not but I've never been stuck in any snow with mine. Also I'd like to see this test with a regular Jeep.
If it was on level ground i got a feeling it would of went off the rollers. My guess is the weight of the car was lighten off the tire on the ground because the other tires (3 f them where 2-3 inch higher up. Just a thought
Great job! Really looking forward to seeing the Subaru in deep snow tests!
So far I think you guys do some pretty cool tests, keep it up. I just purchased a 2018 outback limited after missing my 98 outback for the past 12 years. I think for a car-like crossover this this would beat most crossovers in any offroad test. Please keep pushing it to the limit and compare side by side with others. Thanks.
Now this was good! I think you've got the rollers pretty much figured out. I'd love to see you put some trucks on there and compare limited slips vs lockers vs ATRAC etc. I like your reviews by the way, I think you are good on camera and engaging. Keep up the good work.
As an ex Subaru owner, I can safely say that few cars are as capable as a Subaru. I owned an Outback and have family that own outbacks and foresters. They are immensely capable. Drove a forester through the thick and icy snow in Switzerland no issues. Drove my outback through sands of the Kalahari and through thick mud and forged rivers in Lesotho no problems. The only issue I had with my Subaru was that I found the ground clearance a little bit low and the heavier fuel consumption but otherwise it was an amazing car. I only have praise for them as they are so reliable and so good off the road. few cars can drive a gravel road at speed better than an Outback. Please correct me as they may have been updated and changed: but the combination of the viscous differential in the centre with a limited slip in the back was a marriage made in heaven that is why they are so good on slippery surfaces. FYI: I now drive a Touareg, A much more luxurious car but have to have diff lockers and low range to be just as capable as the Subaru, but I think it makes up for it as 80% of our driving is on tar and who doesn't want to be pampered by all the VW luxury.
Wrensch I don’t want to be pampered by any vw cars. I’ve had nothing but bad luck with vw. Engine failure and all kinds of electrical issues
1:41 ah beautiful nature... snowy road, snow covered pines, and a deer. A great way to enjoy a capable vehicle.
This actually shows how well xmode really does perform. Even if one wheel did not have enough traction, it demonstrates how it forces the power to the wheel with the most traction. It does exactly what it should do. VDC would have stopped the wheel spin but would have given the impression of not enough power. Just remember that if you stuck, probably best to keep the wheels straight and not work them side to side like in one of your other videos, to let the system figure itself out.
Do this with more awd vehicles would be super helpful when deciding to buy vehicles
Why didn't you try it with both VDC and XMODE on??
Wondering the same thing. Seems like a very thorough test to omit that.
I bet it wouldn't make difference. Symmetrical AWD seems to have some flaws and TFLCar proven one of those. Though Subaru is great car still and performs really well in everyday life situations. Looking forward to get new Forester next year :)
Or maybe they ware wanting to save those for another video or two?
@@27Zangle I think your spot on! It's a beloved car maker in Colorado and has a cult following. Controversy makes money!
I don't see how that would help though...
Thanks for testing this vehicle. I just bought a 2019 Outback for my retirement years and you saved me beating up my car testing it myself. My other Outback I bought new 2005, 5-speed. I saw your Gold Hill test and I think the 2005 is better off-road than the 2019 in that when a front wheel loses traction on a hill like Gold Hill, I can feel the power transferred to the back wheels which are LSD connected through the LSD center differential. And I can play the clutch to get wheels spinning, and I think there are times when much spinning is good. When I get my shoulders fixed I can enjoy driving the 5-speed again. Both 2005 and 2019 beat my first new Subaru, a 1983 GL wagon, but it was a lot of fun in it's time.
Actually the three roller test was very interesting, especially the one with VDC on, X-mode off, because it looked like it was sending just a tiny bit of power to the wheel not on a roller, but somehow could tell that it was going to spin, before it spun a noticeable amount. X-mode has more aggressive brake vectoring control, and also enables Subaru's automated hill descent control.
It would be awesome if you can compare this Subaru to other 4 wheel drive systems over time. Like Quattro, 4-Motion, X-Drive, and 4Matic.
^This.
That would be awesome agreed! My guess, xdrive ends up at the bottom of the list.
Yes, please. The few existing videos that have such tests are mostly sponsored ones, so a fair and consistent comparison would be great.
Really? What makes you think that? Interesting that you should say that because I have first hand experience with X-drive vs. 4motion. We have a VW Tiguan and a BMW. Both are great in the snow however the X-Drive is better IMO. It reacts much quicker. I've seen tests where it also beats 4Matic. I think Quattro is its best competitor.
There’s another European KZhead that has tested Subaru AWD vs. Quattro. Subaru had the slight edge, but because Audi has so many different vehicles with powerful engines, their vehicles are a Force to be reckoned with. Just hard to justify beating on an expensive car offroad. I reallllly reallly want to see how the new top of the line Rav 4 hybrid does this test. 205 hp out of its 2.4 high efficiency engine with an electric motor slapped on it producing 230ish hp and getting 52mpg and looking rugged AF, i want to see if it does well... and if it does... I’m probably going to trade in my Forester XT 😃.
Try the 3 wheel test with a front wheel having traction. Hence where the weight is. You said it yourself, the wheel with traction just didn't have enough traction. The combination of 3 wheels being raised up a few inches on the rollers, the OEM tires, and the wheel left with traction being a rear wheel. I'm not surprised at the outcome.
on an uphill situation, the weight is on the rear tire...
Subarus are engineered with equal weight distribution to the front and rear of the vehicle. At least they used too...
Hey there, crosstrek owner here, it would be good to put the front wheel on the ground as a test and have the two backs and the other front on rollers. This is because the AWD does have a forward bias in power distribution in “normal” mode.
That was the perfect test!!!! I've got a 2017 and it's exactly what I experienced driving across my muddy rutted fields.
Reading through the comments I'm amazed to see the amount of anger about the test method. FTL openly said they are just starting to come up with new tests using these rollers and are looking for suggestions. If this test was performed the same way on all cars it would still provide a decent comparison of using full throttle and letting the vehicles systems try to get it up the slope. If that was the test method, it would still be a reasonable test. Personally I'm very impressed TFL went through the effort of purchasing these rollers. I think it is awesome that we'll have a place to go for reviews showing how well traction control systems are able to transfer power to "wheels with grip" on vehicles sold in North America. Here are my suggestions for further improvements to the roller test and things to keep in mind: 1. Try light throttle initially with every possible vehicle configuration (VDC on/off, Xmode on/off, A-trac on/off, trac control on/off, high range, low range, etc. depending on vehicle options) and every cross combination (in this case missing was VDC on & Xmode on). After the light throttle test fails to move the vehicle, immediately transition smoothly and reasonably quickly (to not overheat TC systems) to a full throttle test. Note with this particular vehicle there may be a throttle position in Xmode where the sudden braking of the spinning wheels doesn't break the static traction on the wheel with grip and maybe it would have driven up the ramp? We also don't know if enabling VDC as well might lower the spinning wheel rpm needed to apply the brakes which might stop the wheel with grip from breaking free. For clutch based traction control systems you'll need to keep in mind that they can quickly overheat (for example Honda/Accord's SHAWD uses an easy to overheat clutch at each rear wheel) and they may need to cool down between tests. 2. For safety reasons either drive up the rollers (as opposed to reversing down) or make sure the ramp has enough space behind you to safely stop if a single brake isn't strong enough to stop the vehicle from moving backwards (many vehicles with rear drum brakes don't have enough rear braking capacity to stop the vehicle rolling backwards down a hill using a single rear brake). If you do drive up the rollers, add ramps to the front edge as well as the rear edge to enable driving off forwards. 3. If an axle with a tire with grip slides sideways, your first assumption should be that the traction control system suddenly applied so much power to the wheel with grip that it started spinning. You should experiment with lighter throttle to see if the system can be coaxed to applying power to the wheel with grip more smoothly. 4. If a single tire with grip test or opposite tire with grip test results in that wheel spinning, you could consider driving that wheel onto a pseudo-roller block that is the same height as the rollers. The reason for this is some cars have such stiff suspensions that only an inch or two of droop at one wheel can greatly reduce the weight that wheel is carrying. This can result in the wheel with grip spinning more easily. Having said that, many real world situations where traction is low have uneven ground so the test isn't really invalid the way it is. Making the wheels all level does have the advantage of removing the suspension and chassis stiffness from the traction control system test though. The pseudo-roller block could be made out of wood with some sort of grippy textured surface bonded to it (both sides?) to simulate lots of traction for wheels on them. 5. For the roller test, tires shouldn't matter. Some people commented that the tires weren't good enough but the difference in grip between the rollers and pavement is enormous. The reason the tire spun was primarily because the traction control system suddenly applied a huge amount of torque to that wheel, but also because that tire was an inch or two lower than the rest so it had less weight on it. 6. To reduce the time it takes to perform the test you could have 1 or 2 people quickly moving the ramps around, while the driver efficiently moves through each of the test configurations (VDC off/Xmode off; VDC on/Xmode off; etc.) and then drives off and back on the ramps, etc. 7. If this takes off and you make enough $$ from TFL you could consider (one day) building a permanent ramp system with moveable rollers like the one used here: kzhead.info/sun/ZbOze5GniYJ5las/bejne.html . Having the ability to remotely lock and unlock the various rollers from inside the vehicle would be even better... Good luck and I look forwards to viewing your awesome reviews.
After considering Ben Van Deventer comment about the non-planar surface the tires are on (one wheel is lower) and response, I'll add to #4: 4. Thinking about it a bit more, I would say the test should be performed as is regarding the rollers and wheel droop for all vehicles (including Subarus as you did). For vehicles that are likely to end up with modified suspensions (such as a Jeep), you could consider testing both with identical conditions as done here plus using an even steeper slope with all wheels sitting on a flat plane so for this extra test you are only testing the traction control system without suspension contribution. This allows the buyer (of modifiable vehicles) to get an idea on how much the suspension is helping plus know how well the traction control system can send high levels of torque to a wheel with grip.
It'll be interesting to see other AWD cars on this and see how they work.
They will perform worse. That hill test with one wheel is asking alot.
Sean sorlie not for Jeep Grand Cherokee
Sean sorlie couldn't agree more. That's why I chose a Subaru XV over other AWD cars like Kia Sportage or Hyundai Tucson (these are the ones so far available here in Ireland that won't break my pocket)
@@Freshprincefitness that car is not in the same class...
Nice! But comparing other cars doing the same test (in roughly same freezing conditions) would be crucial for making conclusions
This is a traction problem. The 3 wheels on rollers elevate the whole vehicle, taking weight off of the only tire that is not on a roller. I am going to guess about 2% of the vehicle's weight is on the non-roller tire. Good luck to any vehicle trying to get traction like that. You need weight on the wheels that have traction. Friction is proportional to the normal force. No weight on that wheel means no normal force, no friction. You have 4 wheels all with no friction.
^ This
@@maxchang85 This is Exactly why Subaru could give a RIP about this channel and will not support it with test vehicles.
You have a point provided that you assume every road is perfectly flat, no dips or potholes with optimal traction. The last scenario was a hard test for sure, still, there are vehicles that would pass it. To your point, it does demonstrate how little flex the Subie has until it loses traction.
Agreed. They should put the fourth wheel on a solid platform to match the height of the rollers. Having said that, X-Mode will get you out of 95% of situations with all that power going to that one wheel you'll slide and find grip eventually :)
but it worked fine on flat pavement in the previous video, I'm surprised that small of an incline made such a difference in traction
That was a good roller test. Clear and scientific. Good work. Sadly as you discovered traction isn't just a function of wheel torque its also a matter of grip and with 3 wheels on elevated platforms forcing the 4th to extend less force is imparted to that tire, which with the temps and the tire technology might have just been on the cusp of working. Its a good illustration as to why articulation and suspension travel is still relevant in a highly effective traction control world - the more pressure on the tire x the tires friction coefficient means more wheel torque can be transmitted to the surface. So even if the system can transmit enough wheel torque, if the suspension doesn't allow for the wheel to be pressing into the ground with enough force...its not going to matter much. It would be interesting to see if the rollers were flush if the results would have been the same.
I got myself a used 2018 outback Premium with 65k miles and with all the bells and whistles you can add to the Premium trim, including the amazing complete suite of eyesight features, like blind spot detection, adaptive cruise control, lane departure warning, lane keep assist, rear cross traffic alert, front collision avoidance and some other safety aids, also included was a sunroof and power rear liftgate, factory built in navigation and upgraded LED interior lights and LED mirror puddle lights. All for $20k out the door....so far I've been super happy with it and love all the features that it has and I especially love its offroading capabilities and its 32mpg...
Great tests! Would love to see this on all future awd suv's
As car guys, and especially being from Colorado, you know very well that "All-season" tires do not grip well below 44f or 7c. Colder it gets the worse the traction because the rubber is hard. Obviously it was cold because there were icicles hanging from the car. No vehicle will do well in a traction test with bad traction. Good proof why many places now REQUIRE winter approved tires for winter conditions. Do it again with BFG KO2's or Nokian Hakkapellita's Am I the only one who feels all the TFL Subaru reviews are biased? Every one I've watched they've missed a key test, tested it wrong (purposely or not), or tested it in conditions not meant for the equipped options.
He mentioned tires early in the video..sounds like you didn't pay attention.
K02's are all-season tires. Meaning they are winter rated, but not a dedicated winter tire. A dedicated winter tire will always beat the K02. Studies and data proves it. Yes the K02 may be a great all terrain tire for your suv or truck, but this is a crossover and they don't make one in the size for the factory wheel.
Oh I was, the point is why do a traction test knowing there's going to be a flaw in the test due to the tires, and nothing to do with the car itself. You want to have a proper test, do it in proper conditions. Why not try racing a WRX on an Ice track with OEM tires...... Hence my comment on a biased review. Its like taking a Jeep Wrangler in deep mud with OEM tires, ain't gonna work. So Jeep's fault? Why do the test knowing a failure will happen.
KO2 was an example. Use a Nokian, or any other winter rated tire.
I don't see your point. The car did fine in the real world snow test on stock tires I thought. He mentioned explicitly that having snow tires it'd perform better. The roller test it also did great because it SPUN the one tire. If a car can spin the tire on a test like that it means the awd system is working perfectly. It's obvious if the tire spins, you need better grip and it has nothing to do w/the car. The fact it was able to spin that 1 tire on the roller test meant it did a great job. Anyone with a remote understanding of cars can defer on their own the outcomes of these tests and what they mean.
Three tires are lifted several inches off ground so you effectvely lifted whole vehicle. The wheel with traction was raised slightly with car and this caused it to lose traction and spin moving car sideways.
If the car was level X-Mode with VDC off would have got the car out with one wheel.
All it takes is a couple of bricks under that drive wheel to somewhat even it out.
I was thinking a fourth raised block with locked rollers, or just a solid platform. It’s unfair to unload the sole drive wheel and claim it didn’t function as desired.
Yep. These guys had no problems whatsoever: kzhead.info/sun/hpWdaduFg6Fjh58/bejne.html kzhead.info/sun/aspqhd5wiqOkrYE/bejne.html TFL always manges to make the Subaru underperform- either through ignorance of the vehicle's function and controls, or most readily by refusing to put on proper tires. (You know, because people can't change their tires. What comes with the car is what they're stuck with forever and ever, so there's absolutely no point whatsoever in EVER EVER EVER testing the car on tires that they themselves say 'would make all the difference.')
Fool
Thank you for doing this test. This is exactly the type of real-world test of an Outback I've been looking for.
Actually quite interesting. Makes me wonder how other vehicles in a similar situation would fair, for example a typical 4wd truck?
Worse without lockers
Nice Video! I would like to see several other vehicles in this category doing the same test.
Here you can see it with a VW Tiguan as well. You can also see that, when done properly, the Subaru has absolutely no problem getting traction with one tire: kzhead.info/sun/hpWdaduFg6Fjh58/bejne.html kzhead.info/sun/aspqhd5wiqOkrYE/bejne.html TFL always manges to make the Subaru underperform.
thank you for doing such a good job testing the Subaru AWS. very informative!
This is the best and most real life winter test that I have seen with an Outback. Thank you very very much. Please do this uphill roller test with other AWDs too.
did i missed it?...i cant see in the test that they switched VDC ON and Xmode ON
Test 3 is a toughie for any vehicle without lockers, but I think most of us would like to see a modern AWD system get up this one since we've seen modern AWD cars get up tests very similar to this in the past including other Subaru vehicles. It's nice to see X-Mode doing its job - it's purely intended for off-road use. What REALLY should be done here is a comparison to the previous model Subaru, whether that's Outback or Forester, with the standard transmission. This really should rule out if the issue lies with the CVT model when it comes to lack of torque being sent to the wheels when on difficult obstacles as we've seen demonstrated in the past. We are assuming that the CVT is being protected by the ECU in those cases, but I'd really like to see a comparison in these same tests to the older gen with the standard tranny OR if that's not an option a new model Subaru manual if offered in that model (Crosstrek)?
I love the cvt. In my impreza, just don't beat on it, and they last people wanna pretend to be race car drivers and floor it all the time and wonder why things break.
@@somerando5814 This is exactly why I went with an older forester XT with the 4EAT transmission. I can still beat on it when I want to. Most of the time, newer tech isn't "better", its cheaper for the manufacturer.
I bought a 2016 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5L, I got it with those Bridgestone Dueler H/P's on it (West Coast Summer Tires) I had problems driving in 2 inches of snow slipping and sliding with No Traction .... took off those tires and mounted Continental True Contact Touring tires with the DSW capabilities. D=Drive, S=Snow, W=Wet meaning how the tire is indicated....250% better driving & road handling abilities, goes thru snow like butter, no sliding at all! Traction Control at it's finest with these tires! Buy a set and you will have no complaints.
This February I experienced similar conditions with my new Subaru Outback, but I had to drive my car in reverse up a steep driveway with only the right rear factory tire touching pavement while all other tires were on ice. I was able to get up the hill with slight momentum. I believe traction control was off and x-mode was on.
Again, The last scenario proved that the Subaru system is great but the friction at one wheel was just inadequate to pull the vehicle up hill. Possibly with a more grip tire it would make it. But some have a valid point - the lack of traction was also caused by the uneven loading distribution between the wheels as caused by the test set up. Resolution: place a block under the last wheel for uniform weight distribution. In reality, say icy conditions, with three wheels spinning and last one with grip it would just work. But you can imagine other reality , where three wheels are on ice and the last one is barely touching the ground...then nothing would work but it is applicable for any car.
Old vs. New? Let's see the same test with an older AWD Outback.
2manyhobbies if you watch their older videos, Subaru now refuse to loan them cars so this probs won’t happen lol
@@slightlokii3191 I'm sure they can pick up an older outback for dirt cheap just for testing
Agreed, a manual gear box Outback would be cool as well.
Depends on the year and transmission. All older outbacks had a mechanical limited slip rear diff and center was also a limited but it was fluid driven. Needless to say, they wouldn't even move on flat terrain, let alone a ramp if you put rollers on two front wheels or two rear wheels. Center diff is essentially open, unless you redline it. It will climb if you put rollers under one front and one rear. I know first hand as thats how I used to rotate my tires on the Legacy GT wagon. 1998 Legacy wouldn't even do that! Again it depends on the year and transmission. They had a low range till 2009 on manuals.
YES10 Manuals had a locked 50/50 center. Auto's had a locked 50/50 in 1/2/3. D would shift torque for better mpg.
It says in the owners manual in sketchy conditions turn TC off and x-mode on for maximum effort more or less from the AWD system. Had my '18 Outback in similar conditions to what you experienced in the video and the car performed the same here in the Appalachians. Admirably IMO, especially considering it costs less than 30K and will hang with most decent 4X4 systems that are usually found in cars that cost a lot more than this. Glad to see video proof of it working though, the tests were worth the watch.
This is amazing. Thanks a lot!
I have yet to see an AWD system, with open differentials that only relies on braking the spinning wheels to transfer torque, that works when 3 tires are spinning. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but you need at least one limited slip differential to mechanically force the torque transfer without relying on computer programming and braking. It's also much quicker transfering torque. I would like to see one of these tests (doesn't matter what AWD CUV) where the rear diff is swapped for a Torsen LSD on Gold Mine Hill stage 3. Preferably one that has failed stage 3 before, so we can see a before and after comparison.
i think today's consumer looks at awd differently. it was once for off-roading, but not anymore. today i think it is used more for safety and part-time traction in inclement weather. sure, it's nice to have in bad weather but get over your suv being an off-roader. it ain't. and your paint is too complex to have to replace if you do scratch it!! however, for stability in today's electronic world, and good awd can make a difference. having your wheels pick up, slow down or transfer power as needed for security while cornering or regular driving is really the important reason behind a decent awd system. this is why i have been a fan of the earlier SHAWD.
I think Range Rover relies on braking and has no Locking diffs
exactly. on heavy cars you need at least the central locking. mitsubishi pajero here in europe is like that and works OK, but when you really start playing the breaks get hot and the masc matc system swithces off. also looks like the system in the subaru isn't really off.
It's not AWD but all McLaren sports super and ultimate series cars have open diffs with computer controled brakes acting as the rear differental. They send 600-900hp through the two rear wheels and an open diff. Yet they have amazing traction for such light rwd cars with insane power. The new range Rover velar might also use brake torque vectoring
1:50 thank god a you braked! A deer was getting ready to cross the road and you didn’t even see it!
Would've been funny if we heard a thud from the deer head butting the passenger door. Unharmed of coarse.
I live in Colorado Springs and own a 2015 Forester XT equipped with X-Mode. If you've ever been to Colorado Springs, you k ow there are a ton of rather steep roads. I found a quiet road one night after a good warm day in Feb, which melted the snow and caused the entire road to ice at night. I know this because of the reflection of the street lights off the road and temperature. I stopped on the hill and left the Forester in its standard drive settings. I floored it and got minor tire spin and went right on up the hill. This may be a good test for you to record this winter. I think the Outback was not able to pull itself off the rollers because of the slight gap in the rollers. Just a thought.
1:51 lmaooo that deer tho
Air down to 10 psi. All four wheels on rollers. Put cement powder in the engine. Floor it.
What? Cement Powder? I don't understand. Please elaborate.
The ultimate strength test. It’s ability to send it with cement powder in the injectors.
@@Thecain69 To send it? Huh?
Ok Tommy, it's 2019 now, how about a challenge between brands, Honda, Subaru, Nissan, Ford, Chevy ..... AWD&4WD
And mazda
Love this test. Keep it up!
Continuing sideways slide might work to get the car moving on actual ice since Tommy probably stopped when he did to avoid damaging the rollers.
You almost had a deer encounter at 1:51
Dinner!
Good eye! I totally missed that!
Good Observation.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed that
I was convinced it was fake until I slowed bit down, definitely moving.
Would love to see that Titan Pro 4x on those rollers.
We LOVE our 19 Outback and our 19 Forester Touring. They go Everywhere we want to go, except for very serious off roading. We live in a very mountainous area of north central WA state, 5 miles from town and get 4-6 feet of snow every winter. For serious off roading we take our 4X4 pickup.
Love these videos Tommy is doing. Please get more AWD systems on these tests.
Thumbs down because you didn't try VDC and xmode both on, and because the additional height of the rollers reduces the maximum friction between the wheel with traction and the pavement. That's an unlikely scenario in real driving.
Don't worry in few weeks they will test the Subaru again because they made a mistake like millionth time
That's why Subaru won't lend them test vehicles.
An inch or two out of flatness isn't unreasonable for driving in/out of a campsite or even up a slippery driveway. Or potentially you're driveway has an inch or two of packed snow/ice with ice on top (as ours often does) but in one area your prior shovelling attempt cleared that spot down to pavement. Then you end up dropping a tire into the hole with traction and your only hope of getting out is the combination of the traction control system and suspension flexing enough to keep weight on the tire in the hole. Having the tire with the best grip be the lower tire is the worst case of a fairly realistic situation that is likely to happen every now and then so doesn't that make it a practical test scenario? The other thing good about testing this way for regular cars and light duty SUVs is it is measuring the combined performance of the traction control system and how flexible the suspension is while simulating a realistic condition that is identical each time you perform the test. If you make sure all of the wheels are sitting on the same flat plane it only tests the traction control system on its own. If a vehicle has very non-compliant suspension it may perform much worse traction wise compared to a vehicle with a super flexible suspension and this test (as is) will show that. For a real off-roader where you plan to install an ultra flexible suspension I agree it would be nice to do the test with all wheels on a flat plane because you probably don't care how much the stock suspension flexes. At the same time for a flat surface test I'd like to see the incline angle increased to the maximum limit of traction to get a better idea of the maximum torque the system can transfer to the wheel with grip. Some will argue that you would install lockers along with that aftermarket suspension, but these days, with traction control systems getting better and better, some vehicles don't need aftermarket lockers for all but the most extreme off-roading.
x mode is designed to work with vdc off because what xmode does is allow more wheelspin and more revsbefore using brakes to move power around, so if you have vdc on the traction control would be constantly cutting power making the job of the xmode useless, not that xmode uses the brakes much more agressively, so if it did that with low rpm the engine would just stall
bigpigslapper Oink, as a tire droops into a "hole" the weight on the tire reduces. Think about how a spring works. The force increases the more you compress it. The more you let the spring "droop", the less force the spring generates. I'm sure there is still plenty of force or weight on the tire that's on the ground and traction to move the car up the slope if the torque wasn't suddenly applied. As far as Subarus being junk, I've got to say my personal experience is 100% in agreement with you (but I still wouldn't say they are all junk). I wonder how similar your experience is to mine? My current daily driver is a 2005 Subaru Legacy. It was given to me in 2010 looking absolutely mint (not a scratch anywhere, zero rust, spotless interior, rarely winter driven, rarely driven on gravel, etc.) with under 40,000 km (25,000 miles) on it with two blown head gaskets, a destroyed catalytic converter (apparently they & O2 sensors don't like antifreeze...), two failed O2 sensors, a blown center differential and an automatic transmission that slips, clunks, lurches and never knows what gear it should be in. On top of that the fuel economy is terrible (often getting around 10 mpg on the highway; city is even worse). I expect the terrible fuel economy is at least partially due to the O2 sensors, but with the previous owner going through 3 of them (2 while under warranty), I decided it wasn't worth changing them again. After 8 years I've managed to coax almost 60,000 km (40,000 miles) out of it by pouring in a liter of coolant every 500 miles, a liter of oil every 800 miles, changing two blown (expensive) CV joints, 2 batteries, multiple sets of rotors, brake pads, brake calipers and numerous A/C repairs (A/C still hardly works). I had considered fixing the head gaskets but the way these engines are layed out it is a huge job compared to a normal 4 cylinder car. Now just turning over 100,000 km (60,000 miles) the power steering and alternator no longer work for the first ~10 miles each time I drive it (likely something has seized because burning belt smoke pours out of the hood while coolant steam pours out the exhaust...), the engine knocks (sounds like a bearing has failed) and the head gaskets still leak coolant everywhere. The reason it was given to me in 2010 is because Subaru wanted something like $8000 to repair the 5 year old car (head gaskets, catalytic converter(s), O2 sensors, brake work, plus other maintenance). The owner decided it wasn't worth it so after me helping to do a job for him, he offered to give me the car. Traction wise my Subaru will get stuck with any single wheel on ice even though it has "symmetrical all wheel drive". Since I've owned it, it has always been that way. Put one of TFLs ramps under any single tire and my Subaru is going nowhere. Another huge problem with the car is in slippery conditions it dangerously oversteers any time you let go of the throttle. I've been "told" this isn't normal and is due to the non-functional central differential coupler causing the rear tires to lock up every time the throttle is released when on slippery surfaces. The ridiculous transmission also creates lots of deceleration whenever the throttle is released and this I'm sure is part of the problem. Whatever is causing it, it is very dangerous to drive that thing in snowy/slippery conditions. I've owned many cars over the past 40 years and I've never driven anything that is so incredibly unstable. Let go of the throttle and it just wants to spin. As long as you keep the throttle down it is stable enough, but don't suddenly let go on icy or slushy curves without slamming on the brakes (braking causes the ABS to kick in and keeps it stable). I find the safest way to drive it is to use two feet and always keep some throttle applied, until braking fairly hard while on slippery surfaces. My wife and daughters won't drive it when it snows due to this. Instead, when it snows they always take their front wheel drive cars with basic, but functional, stability control systems that make them very stable. The original owner lost control of the car several times (first time the car was only 3 months old) and had it spin out on the highway due to the issue too. Even with new, high quality snow tires it is just as unstable (possibly worse). Although my Subaru has not been a good experience, I do believe most Subarus are decent cars (though I doubt I'll ever own another one). 2005 2.5's apparently were known to have head gasket failures. The previous own brought it to the dealer several times while it was under warranty, complaining he smelt coolant, noticed coolant dripping on the ground and the coolant level going down. Subaru always came back with "they can't duplicate the problem nor find any coolant leaks anywhere" so it never got fixed. Part of the reason it had so few miles on it was the strong coolant smell made his wife feel nauseous so they rarely drove it. The dealer also "couldn't find any problem with the AWD system" when the original owner brought the car in after spinning it out and discovering how unstable it was. All the dealer did was sell them expensive snow tires which didn't help so they pretty much never drove it in the snow after that. Pretty sad the way the dealer behaved. I even tried to fight with the dealer and Subaru to get them to do the right thing and fix the head gaskets, but they "claimed" they couldn't find any prior record of the problem being reported and at over 5 years old it was out of warranty.
"Hey Tommy - You make me hot!" -- Outback CVT
Lol u thought it was just me heheh
despite all the negative comments, this is one of the best examples of subarus awd systems working together better than most other companies. The fact that it had enough control to spin the only tire that still had traction is far more than any other awd system that doesn't have a real locking diff mechanism. Even with VDC on it was almost able to overcome the rollers.
Great vid thank you! Keep them coming!
Great Video!! I want to see this same test with a Jeep Grand Cherokee with Quadra-Drive II
The FX4 Expy that failed to climb gold mine hill needs to go through this test as well. And Ford needs to have an engineer present to observe the trucks failure.
Shoot, even just do all of the Grand Cherokee levels. I'd love to see how a QuadraTrac 1 Laredo compares in the real world with mild off-road conditions like dirt, snow, maybe even Gold Mine Hill
Cole Hintermeister yea I wanna see lerado E 4x4
a Jeep Grand Cherokee with Quadra-Drive II would get out of that situation no problem making the test rather boring ) Quadra-Drive II is an awesome system, this test wouldn't even pose a challenge. Only the 2WD Jeeps would not make it out and some models having non locking or limited slip rear ends would have trouble.
Optimus Prime Quadra drive 1 wouldn’t make it?
Subaru sets new sales records every year. Lots of them on the roads of Central PA.
Great but what has this to do with how its AWD system works?
When you cater to the middle class, and make cheap products, people will buy them regardless of the drivetrain.
Nissan also sets sales records every year but I wouldn’t necessarily toot that horn for quality. And full disclosure I own one.
Sergeant Speed This video doesn’t make the assumption that this is a cheap product. It just tests the limitations of the AWD system. Other vehicles will have limitations as well.
@@vedder10 I'm referring to the person saying that Subaru sets personal sale records. I thought i made that very clear. I'm simply stating it's because Subarus are significantly cheaper than many new cars.
After driving Mazda Miatas for the last 22 years, I've finally had enough of the winters here in the high elevation part of Pennsylvania. All the traction test videos have sold me on Subaru. I just bought a 2013 Legacy (out of Colorado, no less, because vehicles get so little rust) and waiting on its delivery. It'll be getting a fresh set of Bridgestone Blizzak snow tires, and look forward to seeing how well it treats me.
I eliminated many problems when I switched to all terrain Toyo Open County A/T 3 tires 255/60R18 104T XL on my 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R. Please, ditch those factory tires right away and switch to either a designated winter tires (for snow season) or all terrain tires for all season driving.
I was hoping the Subi would roll back into the loading dock, and he'd have to tell his dad he smashed another car. LOL
Now do the same test with the new Mercedes-AMG E63 wagon. Please.
I hope they do the same test with the new BMW M5 as well.
What state is that?
Come on Tommy, there’s only two switches and four configurations, no reason not to test them all. I don’t know that traction control would have helped, but it seems that when you disengaged it more power was sent to the wheels as shown by your snowy drift launch. With traction control and Xmode on and three rollers either the traction control would have smoothed out power delivery to the tire that spun, or it would have cut power all together like we saw on Gold mine hill. At any rate, I think we are all happy that you guys at TFLC found a way to test Subaru again and maybe help them produce an even better product. I just bought my first Outback and so far the car is great. Keep up the good work!
I definitely like the use of the rollers to test traction control and AWD/4WD systems I think you probably want to find a safer incline ramp or at least a longer one, looks like if you slide back to far you might hit the loading dock.
Expedition video uploaded an hour ago. Subaru video uploaded about 40 minutes ago. That's a lot of snow in twenty minutes. 🙃🙃🙃
They probably record a bunch of stuff in a months to be able to upload many videos a week.
@@FDNY101202 I know just joking around.😊
Ive driven my Forrester uphill in about 18” of fresh snow at 6 am before the snowplows got out to clear it. The snow was billowing over the hood and windshield. It was quite spectacular! I had to get 1st tracks at Kirkwood!! On another occasion I tried to drive on solid ice and that didnt work out too good! I had to put on the chains! One and only time this car has had the chains on!
I loved my Ru in the snow. It was fantastic. I pulled many a truck out of the ditch with it. As for no snow tires. Most people just use all seasons which makes it a more real test.
all season tires? come on! everyone knows the right tires are critical. I bought a 1999 outback and took it up to snowbird, in salt lake UT. It blew my mind how poorly it worked, I was all over the place. checked the tires? all season. made it down (barely) and got good tires. next trip I passed several people who spun out on the road. car handled exceptionally well. back in the day we would put proper studded tires on in winter and it was like being glued to the road, snow ice and everything. other tests have confirmed subaru's supremacy in AWD. great cars, i suspect you have an axe to grind with them...
Been a Subaru's owner for years it is a little bit anoying to see this videos. First thing, guys come on activate vdc and x-mode on together. Two, every time I am with 3 tires of the floor I move all my passengeres over the 4th tire places to have 'some' traction, it's common sens; even more, one time I had to load my car with some rocks and logs to have decent traction ;). Finnaly, if you are going rough conditions, get some heavy tires, standar tires **are not** going to work in this conditions. To me it seems you are pretty much obsessed, let it go and pick up another car dudes, lol.
They're making up for the 5 years Subaru refused to give them a car to review
They explained in the video that they tested the car as sold, which is how most consumers would experience the car. That's the most appropriate standard for testing. Otherwise, what they test is their own ability to solve problems.
Except you dont understand that TFL does bias testing. You can see they dont even activate x-mode which is what helps the subie get that traction.
Mauricio Moreno I can't read your mexinglese
@@mi16t can you understand another language? Or you *only* have enough neurons for Americanenglish?
I wonder if the rear differential is an open one on this model. My 2001 has a limited slip rear.
I really enjoy your videos. It actually helped influence my purchase of a 2016 Subaru forester!
1:52 Hi Bambi
Great eyes
Tommy, you are doing a fantastic job. Tell your dad to give you a raise! Tell him I said so.
Something to keep in mind... When doing the test make sure the Subaru is rear or front wheel bias. The outback has an awd system that is front wheel bias if I'm not mistaken
Thank you for this video. I would like to have seen another test like the last one shown, but with both VDC and X-Mode "On." I.e., would pulling out all the stops have made the difference?
Btw try wrangler on same test in same spot and conditions it will be interesting..
I think with 3 lockers the result is obvious
@@sergeymatpoc :) yea but it will be funny to watch
@@kirilnikolov2448 agree )
Take something that isn't a rubicon and it will struggle.
Depending on where you put the rollers two is enough to get a wrangler without locking front and rear axle stuck.
How is the tyre choice a debate here? We've been over this...stop this madness.... you guys know better, this is stupid!!!! //Guy from Scandinavia.
This is a test of the car's AWD system and not tires. Yes, snow tires would be better but than we're testing the tires and not the car. We test the car with the manufacturer supplied tires. What you are suggesting would be like adding a turbocharger to the car and calling it a Subaru engine power test. Now that would be "madness"
No where does the manufacturer EVER suggest you use their supplied tires in the winter in areas that get snow. These tests tell you what sort of performance a Subaru will give an irresponsible person who overinflates their summer tires and tries to run them all winter long. That's a fair test, because there's lots of those people, but it's not a fair representation of what the car is like in real world environment under properly maintained conditions.
@Sean These are All Season tires not Summer tires. I'd have to believe every Subaru model other than the wrx and brz come standard with all seasons.
This is why we get so much "real tv" series from NA on subjects like tow/ice road trucking, because legislation allows you to fool around with tyres which suck at summer and suck badly at winter? FFS 😅
@Johnathan Yinger if you lived somewhere that had winter, you'd know that all-season is marketing wank speak for summer tires. :)
Only got stuck once in my outback. Pulled up to a redlight at the top of a hill. 15” of snow and falken all seasons. Didn’t use x mode, just backed up and gave it some momentum. Handled everything else just fine, even went off road during a snow storm with a jeep.
in reference to your incline test at the loading dock, your experiencing the rollback in your "baseline test" because hill hold is not activated. Use the features the vehicle provides to assist in this specific test. On the 3 wheel slip test, my feed back is give the car more then a few seconds to move and transfer the power needed. Its Awesome to see it was able to move the power to the 4th wheel with traction. I think most people that are going to have their Subarus's in the equivalent weather conditions that a hill test with 3 wheels losing traction would most likely have snow tires on. I do appreciate very much all the specific test you are doing with your Subaru...great effort. please use all features provided
1:51 deer
Kinda a useless test using All season tires, it would perform completely different with suitable tires.
its still a piece of shit
Most people who drive AWD run -all- no season tires because they spent all of their money on AWD so they can go anywhere at any time. I’ve passed many of them in the ditch in an old RWD car with studded winters after they broke all four loose trying to pass me because I was going too slow. Overconfidence in Motion.
Any other vehicle they review, they would not change the tires, because that's how the manufacturer gave them the vehicle. They're not going to change the tires on the Subaru, even though it's their vehicle, because that's how they got it delivered from the dealer/manufacturer.
Absolutely...it's a terrible all season tire
Where i live you are REQUIRED to have Winter tires at the end of October or your 100% at fault in a accident and not covered for a good reason all season's are not a snow / ice tire
My 2016 CVT Crosstrek will climb ramps at opposing corners, with the tires at the other corners teetering in the air because of attached anti-sway bars, and possibly the FIS. It doesn't have any X-Mode. Just gradually apply throttle and hold. Let the TCS figure things out. I'm putting a rear Torq Locker in soon. A front Cusco LSD is a bit too expensive for me to bother with though. It IS an option for people that want to brutally offroad a modern Subaru that is still streetable. I'm trying to figure out how to fabricate some anti-sway bar disconnects too.
I’ve tried Bridgestone tires on about 5 vehicles including a 4WD SUV and vowed I’d never run them again. One year I was advised at inspection time my Michelin tires were all but worn out and I had zero problems in the snow that winter. Only Michelin’s for me from now on.
We get it. Subaru won't lend you cars so you're butthurt about it. How many videos do you need to make on the same topic?
They made this video because a lot of people commented on their previous video that they should do this test. Last one was on a flat surface and it performed well in all tests. I actually think this test is more unbiased than others since they own the car and don't care about what somebody might not like about their review of the car. Another thing is that they do want Subaru to be in touch with them, they would not make manufacturer look bad on purpose.
@Andrey Starovoytov well then they should have given that right rear tire some traction and not had it basically hanging in the air. They skewed the test results to the negative by doing it this way, maybe unintentionally, but still.
The drop in height compared to other wheels are not unreasonable high. A curb to your house may be higher.
Zoltan Farkas I was just thinking the same thing. They can claim they want to work with Subaru all they want, but they have never tried so hard to test any other vehicle make and model. They just keep on going on and on and on about Subaru. This isnt a comparison...just an attempt to bash on Subaru.
Until they get it right. Or learn how to operate a vehicle
Hey dude, to be fair for All the tests you guy have done to Subaru., You guy need to do the Same to CR-V , RAV-4, cx5 and for Edge model and Nissan Rowe also....
Try the 3 wheel roller test with traction on the front in a similar incline, maybe see how reverse performs these tests. My mom bought a 2017 outback last year and we love watching these. Thanks for the vids - keep em comin
Just going to put this here. Although I'm sure your aware the vdc or traction control button doesn't disengage the brake torque distribution system. That's why you see the spinning wheels brake on the roller before the car moves. As for xmode it raises the brake limits for the torque distribution allowing a greater torque split and thus improving the ability to drive off. All this can be seen with a vdc module via the obd2 port.
Very good test! It will be nice to see the same test but with a more season appropriate tires. For instance, slow tires. I am in the market for an outback and would appreciate a test with snow tires to see how well they perform.... keep Up The Good Work!
Mathieu Morin thank you Mathieu!
Honestly, if you can wait another couple months, Subaru is going bring a new outback to market, it's will be worth it
Dylan Piekarski thank you for that heads-up. I know they recently came out with a new Forrester. Definitely want the newer version of the car... Thanks again!
Mathieu Morin tirerack rates the Blizzaks very well. I personally have xIce Xi2 on my sienna and matrix. I like the tire depth on the blizzaks. Will have to research the Nokians on TireRack... Thanks again!
I have a 2016 Outback 3.6R - I can confirm the stock Duelers are total garbage, after a little wear they don't even perform well in the rain. I have never had them in the snow. When I got the car I also picked up a set of 17" OEM wheels off the 2.5L Outback along with a second set of TPMS sensors and took them to Costco to have Blizzak DM-V2's mounted. I swap them on every December and off in March / April - got a simple little device that plugs into the OBD-II port to reprogram the TPMS, quick and easy. With snow tires the Outback is amazing. You have to be careful not to get overconfident, but I have still made it up hills other cars and SUVs were stuck on with ease, took a corner no problem that sent the Mercedes SUV behind me into the curb and have never had any issues in even the sloppiest, iciest and unplowed ski area parking lot. The ultimate test came last December - I was coming down off Jay Peak in northern Vermont around 8PM, it was pitch black, about -10F and it had been snowing all day. All of a sudden we hit a snow squall - couldn't see more than a few feet and heavy snow quickly began accumulating on an already poorly plowed road. I put on X-Mode - I cannot tell you how great the system worked at keeping the speed down (I didn't have to touch the break once despite coming down a mountain) and I had zero traction problems. Really took a lot of stress out of the white knuckle driving. Long story short - if you want a car for harsh winters, I cannot think of a better one than an Outback with snow tires (also, replace the horrible OEM battery).
I can tell you this - I have a 2015 outback that came with those Bridgestone Duelers. When those tires get worn down about half way the performance goes way way down in the snow. My wife and I had to drive home about 200 miles through ice and snow and I thought I was going to die. The tread packs with snow and turns into slicks. You would drive down the highway and the rear tires would slide out sideways without warning every 5 to 10 minutes. I could not believe this out of an all wheel drive car. I seriously had more faith in some of my rear wheel drive mustang 5.0s I have owned in the past. At least those cars had good feedback and you knew when it was going to happen. I lost my faith in Subaru AWD that day. Check out tire rack reviews on that Bridgestone tire. I am not the only person saying that about those tires. They are terrible.
You lost faith in Subaru AWD that because your tires sucked?
Honestly I have never felt a car worse in the snow then that day. It was all the surprise rear end letting loose so quickly and when not even accelerating. I said the tires were about half worn down. There was plenty of tread left. The tires just suck unless brand new. I’ve never been one of these whimps that have to change tires in the winter because every single car I have owned have never scared me like this one.
pezzonovante888 Yep, this was my first and last Subaru. I’ve never white knuckled it so bad in any of the cars I’ve owned. And pretty much none of those other cars were AWD.
@@93SA10 You must not drive in Snow often then. Or live anywhere with a significant amount of snow. Snow tires help with stopping not only going. Probably thought AWD i can go 75mph on ice.
StrangaPsychoPachic I’ve been driving 30 years through Chicago winters. I’ve seen my share of bad snow.
I ran Bridgestones on my Trailblazer. They were the ONLY tires I ever put on it because they were AWESOME! Sadly, some smuck put Yokahama all season tires on the outback we just bought. I have no idea how they will do this Winter. Our Forester came with Snows but we replaced them with all season. To be honest, Snow tires on an outback are good, but NOT necessary at all. The vehicle was designed to handle winter driving.
We love our 2014 Outback it does really well in all seasons.
Tokyo drift
Colorado Drift
@ 11:00 Is it normal for the driveshaft to be dancing around like that ?
That's not the driveshaft, that's the exhaust. And yeah, that is pretty normal, unless you like your exhaust randomly falling off.
mhm ... so would installing a clamp or two be doing the car good or cause something to go wrong ? ... Or do they design them with that in mind so it has some give to it ?
Car chassis flex, engine's mounted on rubber mounts. Causes a lot of movement it needs to be isolated from. Also expansion and contraction from large temperature changes. It would eventually rip itself apart.
I've got a 2017 Jeep Cherokee THawk, and I would love to see what it would do on this kind of test w/out the rear locker engaged.
I’ve put my Forester in Xmode 2, (which disables the VDC) and gotten my Subie sideways on a very snowy large empty parking lot. It was a kick in the pants. I had so much fun.