BIG COMPRESSOR PERFORMANCE BOOST | No tripped breakers!
2017 ж. 8 Жел.
904 687 Рет қаралды
Compressor improvements using typical industrial controls. No manufacturers have invented a better way to control small compressors. It's a pain in the ass waiting to use a tool, only to have the pressure switch shut the compressor off when it finally builds pressure.
My wife overheard the dialogue while I was watching this video and she said, "See, this is why I don't let you drink bourbon and make KZhead videos." LOL!
You should have corrected her and said "vid-jay-ohhs".
Is he an alchoholic? I thought that's just his personality. lol
He might drink, but he is no drunk lmao.
@uncle bob LOL!
I like how this guy works but I'm really here for his verbal Masterpiece of the English language
A furggin wordsmith he is
No angry pixies today. :-(
Is that AmE of BrE
All Save vocabulary is automatically adopted as the official technical lingo of my workshop... you know it makes perfect sense 😆🤣😆
@@PurityVendetta Well it's usually the babbling of an apprentice with a hangover on Monday morning who's been over in the welding shop huffing oxygen, trying to sharpen up. (It works in my experience) 🤪
The hose blowing off, and the compressor running all weekend, while I am on vacation at Dysney land, always haunted me. So I wired a relay, in series to the pressure switch, that turns on the contactor. I power the relay with my ceiling lights, when I come in my shop and turn on the lights, the compressor starts, when I leave my shop, the compressor won't start. Works well. If I don't need the compressor I turn off the pressure switch.
Or you could unplug it
Could wire a separate switch next to the light for the compressor a dedicated breaker or off the ceiling light breaker thst way you don't need to turn off the pressure switch and lights and compressor switches are right next to each other independent
Dont forget to turn ur lights off. Lol
Thermal breaker?
Smart
"I mean a mouth is a mouth at 3am am I right?" Lmfao.. your humor cracks me up.
priceless how he added that and never missed a beat!
@@chadharrison8653 It is, isn't?! He just says all kinds of sh*t... I always get a least a little bit smarter watching one of his videos, or a chuckle. It's one of the two.
I never would've thought to overclock my compressor. Nice work.
Giv'er!
If this takes off, I'm blaming you for the loss of my compressor-mandated smoke breaks.
And if it does take off, they will want to put another guy on the same compressor,, which means more adjustments to increase efficiency and productivity.... It just never ends..
Jayce Brooks O
no name bah! Not a chance. Pneumatic is cheap, powerful, and low maintenance.
@@cougill_trim_and_cabinets you not compared Milwaukee electric tools with air tools then have you.... Pluss a contained unit vs dragging an airline up a ladder...
Michael Fletcher ok, I’ll give you that. They’re great for punch and overhead usage. I just doubt they’ll ever replace pneumatic-at least not anytime soon.
Sweet, gonna have to look into doing this to my old clunker of a compressor.
More to come. I got a better plan now. Just gotta build it.
@@arduinoversusevil2025 Have you built the better design?
@@TriDaddy @Ave come on AVE, we are def waiting here... lol
It's been 3years fellows & ladies. Check the man's u-tube channel and look for the upload you missed. Or "sub' & 'notification bell' Aye? Aye?
@@arduinoversusevil2025😮😮 0:25
AvE, this is one of my favorite vids of yours, and it has me looking at VFDs online, and eyeing my compressor with disdain. I haven't gotten my hands good and dirty for a living for a long, long time, but watching your videos makes me remember just how satisfying it was to have fixed a thing, or solved a problem, or made something better. Thanks very much for doing what you do. Thanks for sharing with us your knowledge and experience. Thanks for reminding me that any time spent in the shop, is not time wasted. Have a laugh, learn some things, fix some stuff.
i actually built this same deal with a fleet farm air compressor . 80 gallon 17 cfm stock with 5hp 240volt 1phase . i swapped in a Hitachi 3hp vfd and 3 1/2 Hp 3phase Baldor motor with F insulation for high temp . it uses a 3 wire pressure switch for feed back . CFM jumped up to around 24cfm at 90psi 88HZ , i dont use a unloader , it set to 10 second accelaration time . with no issues . its set to ramp HZ up as pressure drops with the PID function and pressure switch . min hz is set to 45hz . works Great with my sand blast cabinet . and can sand blast none stop with 90psi for long as u like . its all in a inclosure with fans for coooling as well as a liquided cooled cylinder head i made out of Air conditioning exchanger and a block of 6061 aluminum its been slowly upgraded over the years
This sounds like a great setup you have come up with
If this were me, I'd be putting in a PID instruction and controlling to a tank pressure setpoint. WORD TO THE WISE - if you do that, or anything similar that would result in the possibility of the motor running for long amounts of time at slow speed (below 6 to 10 Hz), you may want to upgrade to a fan-cooled motor (i.e. separate fan that runs all the time) to avoid turning the rotor into liquid copper shmoo (tm). Love this shit, keep it up! This Patreon stuff is addictive thanks to you. It's like main-lining hands-on engineering skillz. PHYCK YA!!!
Agreed! No need to manually signal the controller, a PID controller will detect when the demand is high and increase the output. I think this is one of the applications where they do it that way because that's how it has always been done. All it takes is a little disruption and everyone will start making changes. The key (as always) is that it has to be economically justifiable. The brainboxes for this would be dirt cheap, but a proper setup would require a pressure transducer and a variable speed motor drive. I wonder if this is worth patenting? Certainly it is a combination of existing ideas for a specific application.
Lots of drives, even some of the small ones, have control macros built in, so there's really no need for a separate PLC. Most also have analog inputs that can use the signal from a pressure transducer. I've heard him say it many times, " Run what ya brung!"
Not sure if it would even need to be PID. Maybe PI, but there shouldn't be much inertia in the system, to the D term would likely be redundant. Plus, if it only needs to stay within ~5PSI of target pressure, the control algorithm could be much simpler.
page 4-66 in the manual are the PID parameters
Set the minimum PID CV to 50% or something. If it hits high pressure then it shuts off. I don't think you'd want to run the compressor at too slow of a speed anyways.
Man this is genius I would love to have something like this for my smaller compressor! That way when I’m away from the shop tearing down a vehicle to pull an engine, transmission, whatever the case is, I don’t have to wait 30-40-50 seconds for my compressor in-between every other stubborn rusty bolt. I can’t believe no one has figured this out before, but props to you for doing so! Brilliant my friend absolutely brilliant.
This is just great. I need this for our pneumatic heat press. No more waiting for it to get up to pressure and no more stupid pressure drops
The ugga dugga, dugga duggas, tappy tap tap, etc.
Sounds like the start of an album to me: AvE n Dewclaw Rock out!
There's not many words in machinist language but they sure are versatile!
"How much did ya torque it down?" "About three ugga-duggas."
OperatorIHC hahaha. Eric O!
All it needs is a snappy tune.
Yep I'm building one of these now. Thanks for the inspiration
Check out Surplus Center if you need Parts!
AvE we need more of this! I need this set up in my shop. Such a great idea. Seriously, why doesn't anyone do this outside of industry?
Great idea. I’m an a/c and heating contractor and if you have a shop without 3 phase it’s extremely difficult to find an air compressor that with properly run some of the sheet metal tools and the adhesive spray rig for our liners. This would allow for more readily available power to run much more efficient compressors that could do what we usually rely on really big 3 phase compressors to run.
Um...adjust your pressure switch and cut down on the wait time. That's what construction guys do. Framers don't wait. Adjust to 100 cut in and 120 cut out on the wheelbarrow compressors. Also if you overspeed those cheap twin compressor heads they'll bust the rods in no time. Also starting under load with no relief after the cycle will grenade the rods too...
jiminy cricket your absolutely right this seems good for just doing stuff in the shop but you can run 3 nail guns with a $100 pancake (short cord) then add an extra tank you never run out of air or the price of a bigger compressor is less than the drive
ian holland Just a brain fart, from me, that is, but what would happen if you put a small tank with a one way valve on the input, for each nailer. And have them connected in parallel. That way the compressor would only pump air to the tank that needed it. .. Bottom line cost is everything. ..
I work with the gas and diesel powered 100 CFM units... designed to drive 3/4" and 1" impact guns, and other air hungry tools like jack hammers... SO to be able to get the same performance out if a unit but by using a VF drive electric unit... would save the need of screaming over the air compressor all day long. I would use a rotary sliding vane, rotary helical screw, or rotary scroll air compressor. Over a Reciprocating compressors design. This was RPMs would not be a problem (for the most part).
I work with compressors that produce 900cfm, we use plc's and vfd's and 1200amp switchgear. That kind of electronics for a job site compressor is overkill and expensive plus how many people know PLC programming and ladder logic, not many. I did the same thing as Jiminy Cricket on my home shop compressor, I adjusted the pressure switch to come on at 100psi and turn off at 120, much cheaper.
Everthing you said is exactly what I was thinking too. I ran large projects with the Right size compressor. Never had to wait for air. Seems like if you had to give a signal back to the compressor to change into overdrive then you are indeed waiting for pressure . and without a head pressure relief before the next start up will definitely cause damage to the rods and piston..
"Those that can't, HR" Never a truer word said.
It is the Human Remains Department after all.
Most useless department in any organization is HR. IT isn't far behind them.
I came up with "Human Refuse".
Some sort of magic going on here. I like it
Im my company HR dep there is a "Mobility Manager" --- WTF is a mobility manager, no-one know what she is doing.
I’m seeing this 2 years later and this is actually a genius idea and it should be capitalized on for mass production
I know I just saw this bubble up and yes he needs to prototype and patent the thing. I will buy one now... unless the cost gets jacked up by the hands of 'big compressor' lol
It's not new tech - this is how inverter refrigeration compressors work. Instead of a dead band start and stop operating system, the motor slows as it approaches max, and speeds up as the pressure drops.
it is, just used for larger compressors because the extra huge cost of the compressor in large applications lets you absorb the added cost of this tech. home depot compressors will NEVER utilize this unless it becomes almost free :D
@@davebennett5069 It is used for domestic air conditioners and refrigerators. Also drill presses, lathes etc, the cost has come way down for VFDs.
Totally useful. This is the kind of A-game project that takes our channel up a notch.
AvE december edition "VFD everything" continues
Piran freebies?
And so it fucking should! If flying mechanical bees use it it can't be T-bag.
Yep, gonna VFD my mum and dog (ain't got no dog)
lol I was just thinking the same thing..... "VFD all the things"
VFD is cutting edge. Its mainstream in commercial air conditioning! Lower power consumption and higher efficiency.
Yes! Vector Drive ALL THE THINGS
That looks like an old motor on that compressor. A variable speed inverter will burn out the bearings eventually.
Uncle bumblefuck taught me that bearings are industrial lego, so burning them out is nbd provided you have a good healing bench.
Why not just adjust the start stop on the old school compressor so that it kicks on at 110 psi instead of 80? You would still acheive a constantly running compressor, and as you said the motor is geared to run under load. If your tool is pulling more cfm than the compressor is putting out, you need a bigger compressor, not just a bigger motor?
I have always adjusted the on/off times on mine that way too
still doesnt solve the low volume of the compressor at ambient pressure at startup. You have a fixed volume per second compressor due to a fixed gear ratio and a fixed RPM motor. You want high compressor volume at low pressure at startup and low volume high pressure at high pressure. The motor runs efficient at one RPM. In order to do that you need to run the compressor at variable RPM with an electric motor. This application calls for a transmission of some kind where if you have a fixed RPM motor start out at high compressor RPM (when at ambient pressure) with high gear ratio and then you gear down as you gain pressure in the tank. The 19th century double pulley variable ratio "variator" was for this type of scenario. Old school is all that you need. Nothing new.
This is great other than you just made a $100 compressor into a $2000 compressor.
Small VFD's are really cheap now, especially if you don't mind off brand (direct from China). The three phase motor *could* be cheap if you source it from salvage. A few minutes of looking and I've found a 2hp single phase 115/230v for $215USD 3hp single phase 208-230v for $380USD 4hp single phase 208-230v for $408USD 5hp 3 phase for $500usd. I'm betting this could be built for less than $600 (not including an existing head, frame, and tank) with some luck.
Can I trust this? Do I need to wear paintball tactical armor around this Frankenstein? Love this Canadian Macgyver mechanic. Peace!
My local farmer has a only a single phase power line. His milk bulk tank cooler costs him a fortune to run. I suggested he goes to three phase motor with a three phase converter and motor speed controller. His electricity bills dropped by 1/3. With some fancy anticipatory stuff he could probably drop that even further.
In my area I can find used washing machines with 2 hp 3phase induction motors for about 60$ cause the confusor stopped working or what have ya. I’d bet the motor in good shape
@@ferndog1461 Well if Chinesium VFD trows a hissyfit and does not stop schooching away there is danger of over pressure and something going to low earth orbit, but put in over pressure valve or two that blow if that happens and you just have huge dust storm where compressor is. Simply put, always have back up everything specially when it comes to built in safety equipment.
Some feedback (and it's not acoustic this time): Some of us have taken the autogas tanks from cars, and used them for our air compressor tanks. We subsequently have a bunch of tanks, and a bunch of drivers with puzzled looks on their faces. It would be nice to have some valves so that one tank can get charged up real quick and we can start work, and the rest get brought online gradually as there is surplus air available. Maybe pulse some solenoids to charge them up progressively without dumping the primary air tank too much. Also, start your compressor in the opposite direction each time. That helps with the not needing an unloader valve. That flywheel pulley fan is fucking cosmetic, ignore it.
Pressure relief valve that essentially bleeds excess pressure into the next tank and so on and so forth. As for those compressors. Don't worry about the heat they don't care. We run ours well over 100 degrees c and they dont care and thats 10 hours a day 8 months a year.
I have the solution to your problem On trucks and buses they have overflow/ charging valves to fill tanks in sequence they are adjustable then you run a check valve back to your first small tank say a 4gallon or 20 litre once the small tank gets to 90 psi it overflows to your huge tank until both are full at 120 psi Draw from your small tank if you want quick air by blocking the flow to you big tank Set you pressure switch on your small tank to cycle between 100 and 120 you’ll never run low on air Use truck alloy air tanks scattered around the walls of your shop with big lines joining them then you have heaps of air for your ugga dugga guns 💪 or spray guns
BADDD IDEEEE !!! Used tanks of ANY type used for compressed air- that are NOT certified and within time deadlines are TICKING TIME BOMBS ! IN most jurisdictions you MUST re-certify any compressed gas receiver regularly, and Car GAS TANKS are ALL made of too thin materials and are NOT round, a design necessary for any hi-pressure!
+Lofts Sympatico Don't worry, friend. I ran some random beads of weld all over it to reinforce it. I am not sure what alloy the tank or the rods were, but the packet said "extra strong", so it will be juuuust fine. Serious: I mean LPG tanks... propane... etc. Not gasoline. They are indeed round and thicker than most air compressor tanks. They have a working pressure of a few hundred PSI. They may not have a TUV number on them, but they are good enough for the women I would like to go out with.
Pressure overflow valves!! Why did I not think of this?!? Perfect solution, no electrics required.
It would work. But you'll find that better quality compressors for contractors just utilize a higher cut in pressure to reduce the issue. Dewalt has a single phase compressor(D55146) that runs 4 Bostich coil roofing nailers very well. It has a max psi cutout at 200 psi and it cut in pressure is around 160 psi. This is opposed to the old style compressors with a max of 125 psi and a cut in at 80 psi(witch is lower than you would regulate such a tool) Each gun makes 5-10 rapid shots then a very slight pause, less than 10 seconds, to set the next shingle. Each nailer keeps this up for roughly 53.5 to 4 minutes then takes a minute to grab the next pack of shingles and the same process is repeated. This nail gun uses 3.9 cfm at 80 psi with a rate of 100 nails per minute. The big factor is regulating the pressure to the gun, set it to the lowest pressure that will fully seat the nail with the gun set to the middle drive depth setting. Rarely do we ever have to wait for air.
This video has changed my life forever.....I need this.....
Im a framer, and you have me sold on tgis . Love it
CFM limit is compressor size by compressor speed. Faster speed equals more compressor wear so your best bet is to go bigger and under drive and use normal max as over drive to reduce wear and increase capacity. My home setup comes on at 140 and off at 175 because it's factory set and I regulate it down to 125 for my use so pressure is always the same.
OMFG a Mouth is a mouth at 3am. Almost pissed myself. XD
Max R What?
Getting offended and getting pissy are different states of condition.
Like "a hole in the wall" after the clubs kick out...
I think your idea is great! This could help a lot of small crews or new companies that have a few dudes share the same compressor. You are also hilarious and fun to watch.
That's pretty much what I had planned to do for my compressor setup. Nice work!
nice work, i use the same concept for hydraulic systems, you take a fixed displacement pump and hook it up with a variable speed control and you have a variable pump..used in a tilt table for concrete wall manufacturing, after the concrete has set the table tilts up and the wall is lifted of the table with overhead crane. used an inclinometer to ramp the flow back as the tilt table rises up, mind you these are telescopic cilinders, so the last rods are small, needs little flow, otherwise it would launch the wall off the table.... anyways nice vids AvE greets from the netherlands.
Ave, don't feel bad...in one of my less bright moments I discovered just how flammable SILICONE lubricant spray is. Did not realize that they were using propane for propellant and, of course, propane is heavier than air. So I lubricated my shredder one day, not realizing that the bucket had accumulated all of that propane for me. Fired it up to spread the lubrication. Poof. Bang. Where are my eyebrows? Arm hair? An instantaneously receding hairline? And by God does burnt hair stink to high heaven! You just can't wash that smell out it seems.
LOL I did the exact same with the exact same results and it blew the front of the shredder basket off. luckily for me I had just emptied the basket or I would still be picking up confetti.
Ethan Poole lol. If I ever have a cruddy shredder I’ll have to try that outside in a safe area but with the switch set to on and plug it in from a while ago.
I did that filling a lighter in my armchair many many years ago. Fill ligher, get a bit of over spray, check lighter works.... Boom, lost eyebrows. I have never seen someone move so fast. My buddy was sitting in the chair next to me and was like a freaking rocket out of a missile silo as he thought I'd blown myself up. I was howling with laughter. Nothing else I could do !! But the smell of ammonia from burning hair! Damn!
Discharge temp on an oil lubricated compressor can reach 350°F oilless 450-500° so be wary of hydrolic hose!!
Was waiting for a complete unit. Sweet idea
Being from the American Deep Deep South, it is very different for me to listen to this guy. This isn't to say anything bad but country folks where I'm from just aren't used to Canadians talking. He definitely knows his stuff. Good idea man! God bless you buddy!
HEAT!!! most compressors work with the on off design so they can cheap out on compressor cooling. That "down time" is essential to stop excessive heat soaking of the piston/compressor body. You've got a novel idea, just need a compressor that can take it.
Bob Barker at lease I'm not the only one who think of that. I can't see that little pump lasting long running like that.
It’s cast iron and can take abuse far beyond these modern aluminum or worse plastic crap
You can always fit a little fan to cool the head if temperature becomes an issue.
Thomas The pulley/flywheel is a fan, Ave is just spinning it the wrong way....i think.
Cameron, do you mean that sucking the cooling air is necessarily less effective than blowing it on the pump? L
Greatings from Denmark.. I use Omron MX2 VFD's in my work, and they contain a small PLC that can be programmed to do exactly what you explain I the video.. also they have both digital and alalog inputs. Not the cheapest Drive, but 250$-ish will get you a 2 Kw one phase Drive.
Excellent job. Running it faster at lower loads increases piston speed on the compressor motor exponentially increasing wear on the rings so lower life is probable
This is freaking genius and simple enough that I'm very surprised this isn't a standard practice already.
Maybe the problem is just undersized air storage and undersized compressor. I built an 5 hp air compressor that pumps something like 20 cfm and will fill a 130 gallon tank to 190 psi in a little under 10 minutes. I use it with my sandblaster, which uses a lot of air, and run for about 5 minutes before it kicks on and it will actually catch up to the sandblaster and turn off at 190 psi again. Works just as well with a 3/4 drive impact. Never exceeds the duty cycle of the motor and always has air since the lower kick on is set at 130 psi. I love your thoughts on a self controlling air compressor, but I just think the bigger problem is people buying an undersized compressor to begin with.
Austin Washburn the thing is we generally don't have the jam on a jobsite to be running 5 hp motors..and physical size is something we try to minimize. That's where this could have an application. If you're in a shop with 220 you can avoid ever having limitations due to air volume by spending the grand on a decent compressor and bypass the vfd costs and pain in assness.
I love this idea. I can believe i didn't think of it before. Way more air without tripping the breaker. tapping out morse code to the PLC is a little far out there though. you probably already know, but that hydraulic hose is going to get way too hot. you could also have the PLC run an auto-drain.
YES!!! My plasma cutter never seems to have enough air unless I'm using a huge huge huge compressor or only making teeny tiny cuts!! Your a genius buddy!!
Love the Commentary! Thanks for the info!
Sounds skookum but you know the boys on the roof don't mind the break!
Yes damn good... broke the pressure switch on my 4.5kw kompressor 2weeks ago... that thing is quite a pain in the a$& because of the big 300l tank. It takes a long time to get it down to 7bar (were it will kick in again) but under 8bar the ugga dugga gun has no torque.
The pressure switches they have are really only rated for 3HP, and even then have a significantly reduced duty cycle associated with that. If you want a real setup that uses the pressure switch as signal for contactor which is designed for high switching loads, check this out. I did this for my 5HP compressor and it works great. www.reddit.com/r/Skookum/comments/6t4qi4/project_finished_industrial_air_compressor_for/
It's not like I can't believe you, but a head's up: Have you though about the airline to your Ugge Dugga? The bigger the less restriction. But since you're here you must have already got a decent size. :p
Stummel01 we're on the interwebs, not in church. You can say ass.
Got a 7.5kW motor on the one, and while it is really overkill as it runs around 10 hours a month at best, it works well using old fashioned star delta switching and a great big set of contactors to keep the switch alive. Still, as the switch is 20 years old, time to change it out, which is a pain, as it has copper unloader piping, so I will have to do an adaptor to use the modern push on fittings and tube, though the copper will still be there to keep the tube from melting. Has worn through a few outlet pipes and non return valves, Type 30 Ingersoll Rand compressor tends to give it a lot of air. Tank still passes pressure tests though, got the cert recently, even though it is over 30.
Yes , an Ass is an animal akin to a Donkey - ( so they can't Bleep it ) . LOL !
This is an awesome idea, working in the auto industry and always waiting for the compressor to charge was a pain in the nuts.
Fantastic idea. Smaller tank, ability to go into brief turbo mode when someone's really nailing, lower speed/wear/noise most of the time, possibly even set for 15A or 20A depending on circuit you have it plugged into.
For framing we just turn tank pressure to 160psi and regulate the pressure down to 90. Compressor kicks on at 120 but the gun only needs 90. With a 4 gallon tank we can run 2 guns non-stop. Seems to work fine the way it is.
Us small garage shops can easily overload a breaker by running the compressor at the same time as a grinder for example, would be nice to detect line voltage and avoid starting during voltage drop, also a soft start to eliminate the peak is brilliant. If the air bleeds off slowly (like you forgot and left your compressor on) have the controller put it in hibernate mode, just enough air to detect use. If the motor can not catch up (hose broke) put into hibernate mode or shut it down until reset. When running big air loads I run 2 compressors at the same time, it would be cool to have some synchronization between them with this controller. Even if the controller let my baby super quiet compressor cycle (relay) when there are light loads and kick in the second when rapid pressure drop occurs from larger loads.
What a great channel. Combine brains, honesty, inventiveness, efficiency, and humor. Doesn't get much better than that! That is a very cool idea using the variable drive to vary output. I would think one would need to be carefull in that the cooling vanes etc. on the compressor were designed for an RMP. Compressor pumping faster might cause overheating issues? I'm not sure. I'm trying to think of other ways to incorporate this idea.
Good video, you got me thunkin'. I purchased a sand blaster, and and am in the process of putting the compressor together. This concept would be especially useful for something that uses so much air.
Can you shape the waveform coming out of the controller to follow the torque curve required by that compressor pulley per revolution? I bet if you got it just perfect it would run super smooth.
You have got to tear down an old century Repulsion start induction run motor, the quality is amazing.
Yes I hate it when I'm working and run out of air and have to wait it would definitely make my life easier.!!! Thanks and Great video
YES I've been waiting all my life for this to happen. We're having a lot of trouble with cold starts in the winter too, working, framing, busting nuts outside for a day in -15 to -25 centigrades the air choocher always takes out the breaker when starting. Even with an oil pan heater for the oil. This could change that!
Do all Canadians have three hands and a hockey stick?
Bill T Nobody really knows.
no, some of us play lacrosse
Na,some of us prefer beer witch is why our women heads have a flat spot.
not this prairie boy. burnt the hockey stick a long time ago when the earth was still green.
No silly, some of us have more than one hockey stick
0-10v pressure transducer would work awesome. I'm sure the vfd has an analog input.
You know you’re a decent teacher when you can use words like ‘chugga-chugga’ and the ‘brapp-brapp’s and us know exactly what you’re trying to explain
What a great idea we use the same set up on water pumps on big jobs. I'm going to look in to doing this on my compresor
Great idea. Not sure how many of us portable grease monkeys and or nail gunner erectors can properly operate/program plc's. Needs to be plug in, turn on, and go.
'It was enginerded when Christ was a cowboy'
Yes, this is a great idea! Would love to see some links to where you got the vfd/motor/plc.
I spent 8yrs as a pneumatic/compressor repair tech. That's a hell of a good idea. It saves motor wear, capacitor wear as it keeps cfm production up (which is the magic ingredient in air tool use) and has lots of conceivable applications. I want in, help us out with more details and less flight of imagination in your "tootali-tage." :)
What if instead of air signaling, it used rate of change in tank pressure to modulate the motor instead of the usual hysteresis? That way you don't have to worry about accidentally sending it into orbit when you inadvertently send a signal with the wrong tool. Maybe set it up such that it should resist pressure drops faster then so many psi per minute, and when it detects that, it runs constantly to maintain pressure. Hysteresis could still be used for light draw or slow dropping pressure so you don't need to hear it running all the time. For extra credit: Run two asymmetric separate stages off the same belt and valve them so that at lower pressure they run parallel for high volume, but after a certain amperage is reached by the motor, solinoid valves run them in series where the larger acts as a low pressure first stage to the second lower displacement cylinder.
The rate of change in system pressure method of control is already being used by Kaeser. My rotary screw compressor has that as an option in its controller. It doesn't have a variable speed drive (yet) so all it does is regulate turning the motor on and off.
AvE any thoughts on the damage to the motor bearings dod to the high frequency from the VFD? I know you can get newer motors that are rated for VFD use and you can also get grounding brushes that you place on the motor to bleed off any voltage that builds up in the rotor so that you don't get the voltage arching across the bearings,
VFD motors aren't necessarily built to run faster - they just have laminations in the cores to reduce coriolis currents and heat buildup.
Mechanical engineer here, stamp official and all that goobalydoop, I could def uses this in exactly they manner you specified. I've worked on utilizing plc and ladder logic to control motor function and there are def game changing possibilities there. Wish I could come work with you for a month. We could create some incredible non-industry standard breakthrough using simple things like autonomous microcontrollers to send packets in order to greatly increase the durability and functionality of classic design.
I got me one of those fancy compressors which tickle your ear hole vs. shouting in it. But I am picking up what you're saying. It's brilliant!
Adding a 4-20ma pressure transducer sourced from the 24v on the VFD, you could essentially maintain a new psi set point just using the features on the drive. Add some torque boost in the program and your in like sin. Skip the PLC and use the VFD inputs on TB1. Your vids are awesome after verk w a beer.
Sounds like a good space saver. instead of the 80 gallon tank to get your air tool capacity you can get the same performance in a smaller package... sometimes all you got is a smaller package... not me, but other guys.
The reason for big tank if to reduce number of cycles. So you sacrifice longevity for space.
my guess is that for home gamers the number of cycles isn't going to be a big deal. even at a couple of hours a night every night of the week, your probably not getting close to the useful life of most compressors, right? unless it's one of those oil-less toys... looks like the one AVE uses has been around for a while and has had several lives already :)
Dude you're a trip. You f****** crack me up every time I watch you. You make learning fun. Thanks
Complicated things break down exactly proportional to how complicated they are. Maximum rpm for Compressors are not safely exceeded. So there's that, my 2cents. I've rebuilt all three of my compressors, all bought used. I googled make and model for the rpm and found all three at one time in their previous lives had their shives on motors changed so the compressor was running slower. I changed all that and have excellent performance. Other than that would be a great idea. Thanks for the videos. I see you were in my old stomping ground, Similkameen valley. 👍
I have a feeling every motor is going to be 3 phase soon at the AvE compound. I give it a week, 2 max!
poot111111 gotta love the sorcery of Mr Tesla
Honestly I think you idea for setting it into an "overdrive" mode is the long way around and not particularly intuitive. Since you are already going to be using a pressure transducer and a PLC to control it, the better way would be to tie the VFD speed reference to a PID loop. That way as the pressure decreases the PLC would increase motor speed to keep your pressure up. You could also set it up so it wouldn't need to use the jog function to get the compressor moving. It would just ramp the speed to get it moving. This would work as a soft start to keep the breaker form tripping. It's the in-rush current of the motor that trips breakers, not the fact that the compressor piston is at top/bottom dead center. Ramping the speed on start will take care of that in-rush.
Technically, overdrive means the driven member (compressor) is rotating faster than the driver, this could only be achieved by changing the gear ratio -- i..e.. gearbox or hydraulic or vario belt drive.
Gman76 I said overdrive because I thought that's what he said in the video. He actually said over-torque. Either way the idea is the same. He was talking about some sort of sequence to speed up the motor. PID loop would work better.
I love this! I set up 2 compressors in order to spray cabinets. I had them ran together and adjusted cut in and cut out pressures on both where my slower quieter one was primary, but when I needed more air the other one would kick on and help it out.
It worked fine but fucking ridiculous compared to this
I am a home garage hack and I DYI everything possible from a air nailer & impact wrenches to a plasma cutter for welding and having a setup like you are describing would be a GD God Send! You could set the gezzless thing at whatever operating pressure and for geeet aaabout it! love the concept and it would make my compressor last 10 times longer
Be honest,you're going to fit one of these on everything now.
I tried to increase my compressor, fire department thinks I Fucked up.
Ok AVE. I am not a college boy but have been in the field for 20 years. HVAC factory service tech. I try to approach issues logically and work smarter. With the prevalence of energy regs and everybody trying to save the planet and what not. The occurrence of vsd s has really come on in the last 10 years. The issues I have seen have been bearing failures on 3 phase motors when retrofitted with vsd. What we (my factory R&D) have figured out is bearings failing due to build up of voltage on the armature and bleeding current through the bearings causing pitting on the races. This happens when running VSD on a non VSD rated motor. Easily overcome by retrofitting a grounding ring on motor that has brushes to allow current to travel to ground with out traveling through bearings. Just my 2 cents. Keep up the good work. Really enjoy your videos. More field trips!!
Great fargin idea man! Although you left out the "technology" of helic compressors but fugging great job. This is definitely the best compressor idea I have seen.
Ave, I think the compressor is running the wrong way around. This way the cooling fan is sucking and not blowing on the cylinder. And as much as I know, the lubrication mechanism inside is also designed to be running in a specific way. Not hating at all, just saying!
Agreed, I saw that too. On my compressor I bought a thermostatically controlled box fan, cut the thermostat out of the fan and installed it on the tube between the low and high pressure cylinders. As soon as the compressor runs for a bit, that tube gets hot, the fan kicks on.
It doesn't matter which way a cooling fan is running as long as it's pushing OR drawing fresh air over the component to be cooled. That said, I have no idea if it was actually running backwards or not.
Roofers approve this concept !! Build it and we will come
Mine looks like a Frankenstein. Removed the air filter and added a large oil filter. 2x125psi mini shutoff switches(2 for redundancy) after removing the blockly original one that stuck in the on position. The motor is now controlled with a relay that also provides power to the NO air solenoid. And the air solenoid closes after 6 seconds via the SS timer. The top of the oil breather/fill port has been cut and piped to the outside, for in-shed oilfree air quality. Looks like now I need a VFD. ;0) always love your videos.
I love this project!
This is relevant to my interests.
gotta break those rusty nuts
When christ was a cowboy lmfao love his vids
Yes, yes, YES! All of this sounds fantastic -- I bet you could even scale it down to the little bench compressors air brush artists use to give them better control/uniformity.
This is why I use a helical screw compressor. I do love using the Vector Drive. The helical screw comp has one anyway, but damned clever to throw a VFD MC on a vane or piston comp. All you are doing is lying to the motor, and it still has no clue whether it is seeing 60Hz or 6500 Hz. I "LOVE IT!!! I also run a dual compressor for painting or finishing guitars. They run alternately into the same reservoir tank to avoid oil blow by, and moisture in the air. Every time it needs air the colder compressor that has had more off time kicks on, so A-B-A-B-A-B ad infinum. This would be fuckin great for monitoring my air needs for the pain booth. Some finishes take a lot of air, as pigment sizes & viscosity ALL change with color, and other properties of the "industrial coating" I are applying. We also run vacuum clamps, and vacuum forming boxes in ovens, for forming usually PVC plastic. Sometimes ABS. It's all cosmetical crap plastic.
My experience with air compressors are volume volume volume. You’re on to something with your idea, but I think heat is going to come into effect strongly.
Dew claw needs his own sign off... Keep your zap in the wrap?
Keep your pix in the mix.
Keep your testicle out of the receptacle.
"And remember, they should at least find you handy."
This would be wicked for anybody spraying. Keeping a more constant pressure with a smaller tank is a holy grail for those of us who run either standard guns or HVLP setups off a compressor. Normally this all equalizes out by using a tank that's half the size of your spray booth, but the ability to match compressor speed to demand would give the option of using a smaller tank, and possibly making it moveable for the guys who don't have a dedicated booth, or to use some serious overkill to paint a fence.
Work in commercial truck shop and this would be great for heavy usage tools(tire guns/multiple tool) and especially for airing tires up when pressure drop isn't low enough to trigger compressor
I just adjusted my pressure switch to turn back on after about a 10-20 psi drop rather than all the way down at 80, turns on more often but keeps the pressure up better, 'specially with my old facked-off beat up ragamatag unit I fixed up from a side of the road find... :)
Couldn't you watch for the rate of change in pressure in order to kick on overdrive...sure the math is a bit more; but I'd be surprised if the PLC couldn't handle it...you could always trade processing time for memory with a wee bit of the calc-ule-lumus. This would help you maintain a more constant pressure that dynamically tried to keep up with demand.
I have a Dual motor ( 2 Pistons ) 240 volt Compressor from Canadian tire the I want to run off my 24 Volt Solar System. Do you think changing the motor to a 3 phase would be better for it. Or adding a Soft Start to the Compressor ike some do on Air Conditioners. great Video by the way!
I love this idea. But I have a question. Does that compressor have splash lubrication? With the direction it’s rotating effect the oil dipper? Only reason I am asking, it looks like it is running backwards with the direction of the van on the compressor. I know it’s easy to reverse 3 phase to correct the issue in my head.
"In hammer we trust" I think you have your next shirt idea right there AvE
I wanna get a window sticker that says that put it on the back window of my truck haha along with the bumper sticker that says " dont laph , your daughter could be in this truck"
Rob R and the sub title: The Ultimate Adjuster!
with a roll of duck/duct tape
Custom hammers with the motto!
Awsom concept , that has allways been on my mind ,you undrstand me thanks
I do a bit of air etching on glass and this idea would do me wonders! Having to sit and wait for that damn tank to spool up really is a time killer and slows production. Great idea.
This is an awesome idea. And a quiet compressor at that