Why Electric Bikes are More Dangerous than Motorcycles
2021 ж. 16 Қаң.
1 991 241 Рет қаралды
More fun, more speed and less effort. E-bikes seem like a no-brainer. But not so fast. These innocent little electric bicycles are a lot closer to motorcycles than pedal bikes when it comes to injury rates.
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Best piece of advice I ever heard - when you're on 2 wheels, assume that everyone else is a moron until they prove otherwise
When you're on 2 wheels, assume that no one can see you
Even better advice: Assume that everyone else is a moron until they prove otherwise period.
@@FernandoHernandez-jw4yy Including we ourselves.
Assume that everyone else on the road is trying to kill you.
as a car driver, everyone on 2 wheels behaves like a moron. motobikes drive way too fast through populated area or on roads towards crossings and loose their mind if someone just turns normaly. bicyclists drive just the way they want, assuming they are some kind of immortal or at least chosen to be martyrs.
Been bicycling 56 yrs, motorcycling 47 yrs. Just act like they are out to kill you. Keeps you safe.
Always! Avoid the cars and you'll be fine!
As a motorcyclist who has (thankfully) never been in a collision, I concur. You need the mentality and perception that EVERY. SINGLE. ONE of those vehicles on the road is out to kill you. People can (and will) do very stupid things. Hope for the best, sure. But plan for the worst! Will keep you alive for sure when commuting.
I always rode with the thoughts that A: I was invisible to cars, and B: they all wanted me to die. I had a number of close calls with cars, but being on my toes doubtless helped me avoid collisions.
This is actually the most precious advice ever.
This is literally how I drive, bike and walk. I ALWAYS drive expecting someone could hit me any moment.
As a cyclist, I've learned to never expect a driver to be paying attention or following rules. The risk is too high and the power is too imbalanced.
Or cyclists either!
@@julianmiles6604 Ever see or hear of a cyclist leaving the scene of a traffic incident ( I mean other than in an ambulance)? The other way round is common. As to fatalities & serious injuries, car or truck drivers rarely if ever are seriously injured in a car/truck & bike crash.
Have you done any training to learn best practice, road positioning, and how the roads work? Because that would keep you safe above all else.
That is how we drive motorcycles too, if we want to survive. See every car as an assassin!
@nobleharbor265 I have. They knocked down a pedestrian and left the scene. The pedestrian was taken to hospital with a broken arm
Aside from regulating the speed of ebikes, a lot of the problems here come from the infrastructure. If e-bikes were limited to reasonable speeds, and riders were provided real bike infrastructure rather than forced to choose between busy footpaths or deadly roads, we could see a vast amount of improvement and allow ebikes to become a valuable transportation option
Cars are the ones that should have their speed limited. But no, they put it on everyone else to take safety measures because car makers and drivers are dangerous and irresponsible. smh
@@peterjv8748 this is the dumbest fucking comment I've seen in a while.
What to you is a reasonable speed? In Canada ebikes are limited to 32km/h, well below our lowest speed limits of 40 in school zones. Meanwhile cars can and DO regularly go well over with no effort at all. Cars if anything should be limited. With all the tech in cars Im surprised theyre not synced with google maps and limited to the speed for the road
@theepimountainbiker6551 I don't know where you live, but here in Calgary the school zone limit is 30km/h.
Everyone should have good infrastructure, because traffic calming techniques are more effective than speed limits. You shouldn't feel the need to go 60km/h in a bike lane, or 60km/h in a car on a city street.
Safest attitude possible: Whatever two-wheeler you're riding, assume everything, including pedestrians, I mean everything on the road or sidewalks is out to get you. Just you. Nobody else.
That's a good one
No kidding , I'm as flashy as possible on my bike and I still almost get run over on a weekly basis.
Words to live by!
Exactly my strat... Which is much needed especially where I live (India)
It really is a bit paranoid. I admit that. But then my primary learning curve was on the streets of Izmir, Turkey. At the time, it was mostly 1st and 2nd generation drivers. I can't count the number of times I was cut off, forced onto a curb and on two occasions, cars pulled right in front of me and stopped, waiting to see if I'd hit them. But the lessons and attitude have served me well over the years. I must be blessed or charmed. I survived.
The thing which makes cycling safer and more attractive is good infrastructure like separated bike lanes etc.
my city is doifn this right now. Streets newr my house are becoming 1 way streets with a devider for a 2 way bike lane. It's probably annoying for drivers but for bikers it's way less deadly
We don't have many bike lanes in my city ugh
But do you want to share those lanes with 50 mph electric bicycles?
@@critterIMHO electric bikes that go over 32 km/h and/or have a motor with greater power than 500w are already considered motorcycles in my country. All this fear-mongering means nothing, fuck off. They're not allowed to ride in the bike lanes
I like the bike lanes idea but it's just wrong that the people driving gas vehicles have to pay for it all. the electric bikes and electric cars get a free ride on the infrastructure paid for through gas taxes which they don't contribute to. Cyclists should have to pay for the bike lanes and leave the gas tax money go towards things that more directly benefit cars.
Good bicycle infrastructure makes the world of difference. Here in the Netherlands cars and bicycles are often completely seperated. In big cities the route you can take with the bicycle is often shorter then by car, which in turn makes people use more bicycles and clearing the roads, so that the people driving dont get stuck in trafic
well put. Sometimes when I google map directions, ebiking or even bicycling takes same amount of time to reach your destination. Then there is traffic, detours, parking that makes driving frustrating. Ebiking is a pleasure in so many ways: gas saving, no traffic, bike paths, and you enjoy the scenery.
hij praat echt niet over EU e-bikes hoor, 30 miles an hour = 45 km/U , dat zijn spedelecs ;-) die zijn in EU regels grotendeels onder regels voor gemotoriseerde voertuigen, zo is nummerplaat, verzekering EN het hebben van een rijbewijs verplicht ;-). Dus exact al waar hij over klaagt, doen we gewoon, wij beschouwen die bij ons wel wettelijk als grotendeels een moto, maar dan tussenfase, mag ook niet op alle fietspaden zomaar, en in Belgie allesins in meeste fietspaden dan ook max 30km/u, als die sneller wilt moet die tussen wagens rijden in principe ;)
But how does that improve the motorvehicle industry and sell more cars if they can just use bikes to get to their destination easily?
Even then on there fast E-bike is still dangerous Even more dangerous because now you fight with slower bicycle
@@bocahdongo7769jack shit. Driving excessively faster than other road others is always more dangerous. Doesn’t matter the vehicle. People need to be able to judge the surrounding traffic and handle the speeds there vehicle is capable of. 20kmph is easily achievable on non e-bike for a commuter. So no big different to an e-bike. And every sportier cyclist can do more then 25.
As someone who loves feeling the speed travelling around the city via pedal bike and e-bike, I've recently realized that I really want to own and drive a motorcycle. It seems so fun. And the reason why it's "dangerous" for both cyclists and motorcyclists to commute are the big metal cages (cars), which are an order of magnitude or two heavier and usually don't provide much engagement with the surroundings.
FYI 55% of motorcycle accidents are single-vehicle accidents meaning technically we are more dangerous than those cagers. But that is empowering because we can make decisions that can lessen the likelihood of a crash. We can be responsible. Know our limits and ride within that ability.
"E-bikes are more dangerous than Motorcycles" Nah, what the hell, no way "My E-bike goes at 60kph" Well that explains it. It's not an electrically assisted bicycle, it's an electric motorcycle
on top of that, if you look at the people in those clips, they're clearly not the brightest people. Like who tf darts in traffic without watching where you're going or cross a street on a RED LIGHT! I've been biking for years and have never done that.
Or he has a commute like mine where there are a few hills in the way. My E-Bike is compliant with EU regulation but I'm still hitting peak speeds 40kph on a lazy day. 60 is a bit more effort but possible. The trick to survival is to do this on the parts of your route where there is no one around and the visibility is good enough to make sure that there also won't be anyone around until you slow down again.
@@painexotic3757 You will be surprised. Motorcyclists does this it lane splitting often and at high speed. We often have to worry for their lives more than the cyclist themselves.
Ikr, there’s a point where a difference in speed becomes a difference in kind
@@painexotic3757 fixie riders
Humans: quick to innovate, slow to learn.
Yeah, that's our reputation in the Galaxy.
The bikes are not the problem it's the people
@@EthanSeville Yep, just like guns.
I think this qoute fits quiet perfectly for this topic: "Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should."
Nice lol.
Long time bicycle commuter, who took a break after knee pain on an e-bike here. It took me one month to realize I'm older now, and the danger of riding in my simi-urban town is too dang high. Got my first motorcycle last week, feeling much more stable, and seen.
This is an excellent video. I'm a cyclist and I see people on ebikes and escooters riding faster and more recklessly than they really ought to be. When you're 100% riding under your own steam you have (IMHO) a far greater feel for the conditions around you and the responsiveness of the bike. The electric varieties have the ability to make you go quicker than you'd be able to yourself (unless you're an elite level cyclist and at that point your bike control would also be elite) and I've seen quite a few close calls. People need to be way more careful on those things.
I agree. If your body is not ready for the speed, because it can't provide the power for it, you shouldn't drive that fast with external help. We don't talk about cars or trains or motorcycles here.
These e bike people need to get motorcycles and stop pretending.
Absolutely the truth. I was in Zion this spring with my family and the ebikes are a damned nuisance. People that barely have the coordination to ride a pedal bike whizzing around at almost 30 mph. They aren't allowed everywhere in the park but the places they were, you had to be on the lookout constantly for them.
“I’ve seen,” “I’ve seen,” I’ve seen,” etc., etc., etc… All comments from “cyclists” who probably never have actually ridden any assisted bicycle. Lots of comments with zero actual experience. Like the comment about “make you go quicker then you’d be able to yourself”. Nonsense! Ever see anyone get on a bike and go down a hill? No motor… 30-40 mph, and your hoping they don’t hit a pothole, or sharp turn. Or, how about creaking up a hill, huffing and puffing (possible heart attack) meanwhile traffic is wizzing by… then the weaving begins due to exhaustion, so they get off and walk!!! Right. So bicycles with or without an assist motor can be dangerous. Seen the same comments about bicycles vrs joggers vrs walking vrs massive stroller traffic jams. Then there are the wheel chairs vers the traffic lights… and don’t let me even get started about those seniors with walkers!!! Wow, tolerance much?
Hopping into the I see wagon. I’ve seen more road cyclists that go much faster than most e-bike riders. It’s not the type of bike, it’s the lack of bike infrastructure that make it dangerous to cyclist - whether they use e-bikes or road bikes, gravel bikes, folding bikes , etc.
I have been road cycling my entire adult life, and I never fully understood how batshit crazy it was until I started riding a motorcycle again. I found myself riding my motorcycle down a canyon rode at 45mph, and I realized that I was traveling at the same speed I do on my road bike. Except I had big disc brakes... and a full face helmet... and an armored jacket, pants, boots, and gloves... and lights and turn signals... and a suspension, and tires that have larger contact patches, which weren't traveling through the gravel on or near the shoulder. Meanwhile, when I'm on my 16 lb carbon road bike, I wear spandex and a styrofoam hat. The motorcycle seemed safe AF.
This is related to why I've been transitioning from skateboarding to getting into dirt biking
I really don't know how to say this properly but I've been gearing up for riding my e-bike since I got it and it's baffling to me that other people aren't. That shit goes fast, act like it
Everything is Relative, right?
Pity you didn't have a spell checker.
like I told to my lycra friends: I ride enduro mountain bike, safer than road cycling.
But my mum wont let me ride a motorcycle
Show her this video and she would...
Then wait to move out lol
@i did a thing my mom won’t either, I managed to convince her to let me get a mini bike and after a year of riding that I convinced her to let me sell it and buy a bigger bike and she agreed but as soon as I gathered enough money she is back at square one saying no
@@cristianciarlo1571 You think so? I think she would rather tell him hes not allowed to ride an ebike anymore instead of allowing him to ride a motorcycle.
You're literally everywhere 😂
One of the biggest differences on a bicycle especially one with disc brakes is how quickly you can come to a dead stop you have to be very conscious about it in my experience
Here in Belgium (and even more so in the Netherlands) it's a very different story. The first major difference is that E-assist on bikes is limited by law to 25 km/h, not 32 like in North America. The second part is infrastructure and mindset. Much more separated bike lanes, and drivers are more used to looking for bikes. In the 5-10.000 km I do every year by bike (non-E but I ride on the faster side) I've only been hit once in the past 5 or so years. We do have 45 km/h E-bikes called speed pedelecs, but those require a drivers license (equivalent to moped, but car is also good) and registration. They are also a bit more regulated when it comes to equipment.
It's remarkably easy to take a regular ebike and modify it into an s-pedelec without anyone noticing. I've been riding mine on bike paths in Canada for a few months and unless I am aggressively speeding, no one can tell the difference (our ebike speed limit is 32km/h too which is quite fast). The ability to hit 50km/h is nice when you want it, but obviously you have to be mindful of the danger
@@KekusMagnus and just like going 80 on your motorcycle in a 50 zone you are annoying nearby traffic partakers
@@harrysarso - Not when there's no traffic on the road. I only go fast when on a dead road and no one's around.
sorry but european laws are not good enough to satisfy the obese americans that want 9.5 litter 20 cilinder engines and 60km per hour turbocharged wheel chairs... look at this guy advicing people to get motorcycles instead!! this sort of stuff makes me glad I was born in europe
The biggest safety feature of my ebike is that I can ride it on bike paths
Yes and no in big or med size city cops will pretty much detain you for riding a Ebike on public paths hell friend got harassed for ridding his electric skateboard on a path
Exactly. Most of my commute is on separated bike paths. Much safer than a bike on the road.
That's what I would want it for, but honestly I would rather have one that can only go like 10mph not 50mph lol Just something to help me get up hills.
Staying away from cars as much as possible is a true bicycle survival skill. Car drivers simply don't see or care for bicyclists.
@@phil4986 Bingo! Circle gets the square!
I've been a cyclist in Seattle since 1999. When I talk about motorcycles, people immediately worry about my safety. Yesterday, I did 30mph downhill on a narrow shoulder in basically my underwear. And y'all think motorcycles are unsafe?
In San Diego, motorists are RUTHLESS and don't give a shit about cyclists. I had an electric scooter that looked like a vespa but only went 30mph that was way more dangerous than my two motorcycles. I had to add a flashing bike light so motorists I've I didn't go that fast (even though I used almost all bike lanes). Be safe out there 🤙
@@zer08927 in the UK the 50cc scooter/moped is often the first step for a teenager (you can ride one at 16, a whole year before you can look at cars or bigger bikes). You need some basic training before you're allowed on the road, but then off you go. I own 3 motorcycles (250, 600 and 1000), and you couldn't pay me to ride a 50cc these days, there's just not enough power to keep up with traffic, and if you can't sit in the middle of your lane and own your space, you're going to get pushed to the curb, forgotten and ignored until someone squashes you. Hell I have people try to bully and tail gate me when I'm in traffic on my 1000cc FFS... Like they could keep anywhere near me on an open road - Did I mention the 1000cc has carbs and does pretty impressive kill switch back fires? Does great for tailgaters if I can get enough roll to get some fuel into the pipes! lol!
@@zer08927 it works the same where I live (EU). You have to go 50/90 km/h otherwise everyone will try to overtake you no matter what. 600ccm bike is safer than 50ccm
@@juststeve5542 Motorcycle safety courses in the US are often taught on 1000cc+ harleys and shit... And I could go get my motorcycle license with no MSF course, pass the test, and go buy a ninja H2 with no restrictions
@@juststeve5542 had a try on a 50cc when I studied in Europe. I swear it's even worse than Honda C50 my grandad had. Screams when trying to carry me up a hill.
Around the time this video came out I was actually looking for an electric bike cause my commute to work was too much in Arizona heat for a traditional pedal bike. After seeing the price tags (3-6k) and licensing if you wanna go over 35mph, I decided to just buy a motorcycle. I’m now a daily motorcyclist and I love every day
reminded me of southeast asia, where mopeds are cheaper than ebikes or about the same price. it's faster, highway capable (to some extent) and more range than ebikes.
For real!!! I’ve been deciding between electric scooters, e bikes, electric motorcycles etc. All the standup scooters that can keep up with traffic are the same price as a cheap Venom E-Vader, which can keep up with traffic in my area. A $350 upgrade even more so. Of course my area doesn’t have good bicycle infrastructure either
Chinese moped can be bought cheap for under 1k, works great for commuting and 80mpg.
Az bro here too! I actually went for a 2.5k e bike and it's working pretty great so far. Mostly was looking to avoid gas and insurance fees and its pretty much paid half of itself off in what I've saved on that alone. One day when I have more time/money I'll go for a moto.
@@indenturedLemon yes but more dangerous. for this guy on the video to say ebikes are more dangerous than a motorcycle is telling a lie.
Thanks for the video. I'm a bike/ped planner, for a municipality in the US, and I found it very enlightening. The concepts you point out will help me to do my job better as we plan for more ebikes on the road, trails and sidepaths.
with how slow progress looks like do you even get paid, like, at all
With gas at $5.50 in California currently, I looked at bicycling to work. My only problem was that the only 2 roads that go to my work, have a speed limit of 50 mph, those 2 roads do not have bike lanes, and are 2 lane roads, 1 lane in each direction. I could not see myself riding a bicycle on those roads with cars whizzing by at 50+. 3 days ago, I got my M1 permit and am in the process of becoming a motorcycle owner.
Zero makes good EV motorcycles, worth checking out
Always wear your gear and be careful m8, even on an eBike if you eventually get one. If you’re 20mph or over you need a full face helmet and armor!
That's America for you. Only for cars, neglecting everything else. People have told me it's fine, you can still ride your bike 🙄
@@austinhernandez2716 Yeah, I mean you can't really expect the average person to be comfortable with that kind of danger on a daily basis. Regardless what's at fault for said danger. The change has to happen to the infrastructure before any blame can be shifted onto an individual
@Veronika Zaglotovareally haven't needed repairs, local dealership work rates aren't bad and there's good community support around them for bolt ons and upgrades. Bolt on I did was easy enough
I've recently started ebike commuting. Interfacing with car traffic on the street is exhausting, but the separated cycling infrastructure portions are relaxing and great.
same. I hate using the streets. riding to my destination via the riverbeds is so much easier
But thats what makes it more dangerous, because for large stretches the car expects you to be seperated from them, then boom youre on their inside, when motorbikes are on the outside doing their overtake. So now you have to compete with them moving over to avoid an oncoming vehicle squeezing you in, or someone stepping off a path.
@@luckyspock you pay road tax and insurance due to the inherent damage, risk association(thousands of lbs, high speeds, can kill people-pedestrians, bicyclists, other drivers, etc)
@@luckyspock Boy do I have news for you: A road tax is not there to fund roads, it is an income stream for your state's treasury that they can spend on whatever they want.
@@luckyspock Hmm, because the injuries getting hit by a bicycle vs hit by a car are less severe. In addition, your 40-80 pound bike does FAR LESS road damage than the thousands of pounds of car.
Really appreciate the kind of videos you’re doing! Amazing work!
I loved the analysis!! Excellent data there! Thank you for making this video.
“...Several stages of training... often spanning 2 years...” Me who got a license from 2 days of parking lot exercises... 😳
Same
In 1983 I rode a figure 8 without touching my foot down. A 15 question quiz later I had my endorsement.
Same weekend license here
Ah you must live in the us
Taught myself to ride, went to the DMV for license, was told to ride around the block while the instructor filled out my information.😁
I was a commuting cyclist for decades.I got tired of feeling like a target, so I bought a Zero FXS electric supermoto for commuting. Now I can keep up with traffic, and feel much safer. (I was already a motorcyclist, and have a gas bike for longer trips.)
How’s the zero holding up? I’d love to buy one but zero pulled out of Australia for some reason.
@@mj_aussie_coaster_travels8310 I was just going to ask the same thing. lol
I test rode most of the Zeros, a few years back, and the FXS gave me the most smiles. It would be great for a short commute, as it’s so quick and nimble. But for me, for a quick blast, just for pure fun, it’s hard to beat. It would definitely be my number one choice if I were to buy a motorcycle again.
@@markparker5585 Well if Democrats had their way, they would take all the gas vehicles off the road right now and force us into electric or public transportation. The problem with that is my commute is fairly long that zero cycle vehicles probably would be out of juice before I made it home. Cheers
@@mikesimpson6757 what's your commute?
While stationed in Germany in the early 2000s, Mannheim was the best bicycle riding experience I have ever had. They have dedicated bike lanes and conscientious motorists. Don't know what it's like now but back then it was an enjoyable experience...Bamberg on the other hand, you take your life in your own hands!
It's better to now. A lot of work is put into bike infrastructure in germany
Very good video! Thank you for putting this out here 👍
There's a problem with definitions / nuance here, I think. E-bikes, as in, pedal-assist bikes max at 25 or 30kph (which would greatly, safely decongest urban areas) vs what we should call Electric Motorcycles - yours goes as fast as 60kph on flats.
Yes, this guy seems to be riding the speed equivalent of a small moped without gearing up for it. I'd say this is on him and not the e-bike that seems to be going much over the legal limit.
@@Cobalt985 did he say it does 60 on the flats. It’s been quite a while since I’ve been to Vancouver, but I seems to remember there were these things called hills.
@@Cobalt985 yup. The vast majority of ebikes are the ones going 25kph. Dude's trying to make a point about ebikes while using an example that doesn't even make up 10% of ebikes on the streets.
In the UK all ebikes are restricted and you'd struggle to get to to 30 mph on one.
meanwhile in the real world, non powered vehicles do this regularly on hills and bridges. These are the people that stop you from being in traffic 24/7, so you should be nicer to them.
You make very valid points. The other thing I've noticed as someone who has cycled to commute my entire life, is that many people buying e-bikes have actually never really cycled before. As a child, I had my fair share of accidents and falls, and that has taught me a thing or two about what to avoid and what to expect from pedestrians, cars,... and so this acquired knowledge will be used to avoid unnecessary risks. A lot of these beginners on e-bikes have had no experience of misfortunes and are therefore completely oblivious to the risks they're taking. That being said, regarding all cycling (with the purpose of commuting), I think it must be said that most of these problems can be solved or mitigated through better infrastructure AND mandatory education for children on the behavior to adopt when cycling and on the things to which they should pay attention.
Agree. Education is the key to mitigate for a safer ride. However majority of cyclist don't care about the rules of the road. They cut people and cars off, they ride or rather fly on the sidewalks, most of them expect the cars to give them the right of way simply because they are on a bike. I've seen them riding side by side just so they can have a conversation...😄and holding up the traffic. The truth is most cyclist don't take the time to know the rules of the road...it is the same as driving a car. But because it doesn't suit them, they choose to ignore it and as a result the cyclist end up being injured.
Couldn't have been said better. People need to learn the hard way unfortunately. I never think that I have the right away. I always keep the mind set that cars don't see me. And I wait for the nod of validation 😂 Follow those rules and you'll be cherry
@@cosmoray9750 Cyclists are statistically far less likely to cause accidents than cars or motorcyclists tho. For every shit cyclist there are dozens if not hundreds of shit motorists.
Well... in the words of idk who..., "they 'gon learn today.". Most accident's aren't fatal or life changing... they'll be alright. A bruised ego and a broken arm.
I’m just saying, if you didn’t barrel down a monster of a hill and crashed either into a tree or went flying from hitting a curb then what are you doing in life
I do both and so for my e-bike I wear a speed rated bike helmet that also has flashing red and white lights, my e-bike has tail and brake lights, an impressive headlight, and I added turn signals, mirrors, and a very loud horn. So as a friend said, it’s effectively a small motorcycle which is exactly the minimum I need riding in crazy suburban US.
very good insight, something i've never really thought about before. Granted, this doesn't always have to be the case. With a speed limiter for the motor on the e-bike and proper infrastructure separating cars and bicycles on the road, much of these issues dissipate. Bicycles aren't meant to travel at highway speeds and alongside cars. They're a valid mode of transportation but they can't "compete" if you know what I mean.
I think the most important point was the speed without experience. To get to 30kph with an "acoustic" bike means you'll have spent quite a while on it and will have the control and balance to go with it. Any slug can pick up an unlocked ebike and whizz by at 45kph. That being said, most of the problem faced are social and infrastructure and are equally problematic for pedal bikes and ebikes, but the pedal bike is more forgiving because you'll likely be travelling slower.
Bikes of all kinds are supposed to follow the same road rules as cars, yet most riders don't. That's the problem. You don't even have to know how a stop sign works. Why does flying a drone require a license but not hurling yourself into traffic?
@@smoothbraindetainer I agree with you here. I used to commute on my old, creaky road bike, and aside from crossing red lights and rolling stop signs when there was no one coming, I was always a conservative rider. I'm a conservative driver, and a conservative motorcycle rider, too, and it's served me well. Gotta remember that as a cyclist, YOU are ultimately responsible for your safety, and not the other drivers on the road. Keep alert, keep your distance, and don't assume the other guy is going to do what you expect him to.
Don't your e-bikes have speed limitators at 20kph for pedalling assist by law? Don't you have to get a licence to drive anything that can go faster than that without any effort from you?
@@MarcelaElviraTimis it's usually about double that. And those speed limiters are a joke. Companies write "do not remove this plug or the speed limit function will be disabled" because they know nobody is following that.
@@smoothbraindetainer there are places where you get fined heavily for that and if you don't have a driver's licence the consequences are... bigger
In the Netherlands, with a decent bicycle infrastructure/culture, most of these issues do not apply. Except for elderly who would otherwise not be able to cycle anymore - they've been falling and dying ever since the introduction of electric bikes at alarming rates.
80 people died in 2021 on ebikes in the netherlands lets assume 60 (high) are elderly would not call that alarming since we can't judge how many elderly are in better shape to begin with as a result of staying mobile.
Ebikes have a severe speed limitation in the entire EU
@@biggibbs4678 Yeah still the number of deaths i outlines are true i looked them up.The slight increase is mostly do to way more older people biking longer as a result of ebikes who have een riding yhem for a decade only last 3 or 4 years younger people moved to them in mass. Of the nearly 1M bikes sold last year more than 50% where evbikes.
Speed might apply...
Very true, my retired sister just injured herself dismounting her e-bike. I've been riding motorcycles for almost 50 years, never an injury worse than an exhaust burn.. not saying I'm invincible, but there's something to this story..
Locally (South Orange County, CA) drivers are getting used to the e-bikes more and more but our big problem is unskilled minors on their first serious powered vehicle with out the skills, knowledge, respect or maturity to to keep themselves or other out of danger. I’m in my 40s now but I can only imagine how bad I woulda wanted to get my hands on one of those things when I was that age and practically speaking I can understand the temptation of convenience for parents to give their kids a means of transportation in a very hilly area where pedal bikes are very difficult for people who are not serious bicyclists to ride practically. But on top of that some of the e-bike these kids are getting are really high performance rides even to the point that it’s essentially and electric motocross motorcycles with no pedals at all! Even when it is a peddled e-bike I’m seeing kids able to do power wheelies for 50 yards (sometimes not even wearing a helmet) and it’s pretty much a daily thing! I don’t want to shut them down altogether, but there should be some serious restrictions and enforcement on what they can have and ride without a drivers license… Motorcycles license.
It's because we are just entering the transition period, away from cars to other forms of transportation. Teenagers are teenagers they need to experience risk in order to develop properly and not end up anxiety-ridden like the current generation of coddled kids. But society needs to enable that while minimizing the chance they seriously hurt themselves. So separate cycling infrastructure, low speed limits on neighbourhood streets, requiring cars to be tested for pedestrian & cyclist collision safety, and some extra steps to obtain high speed electric transportation should be on the agenda. But e-bike wheelies shouldn't be a cause for concern.
@@agilemind6241 No not the wheelies in and of themselves. That is kids being kids. I was referring to the wheelies as a sign of how much immediate available power and torque on command some of these bikes have. It's not just power assist to pedaling ibut straight up push button throttle control. A speed limiter can be well and good but it is not the only type of power restriction I would consider. If the top speed has a limiter of 15 or 20 mph ( just for example, I've no idea what actual speed limit should be) but if a kid can accelerate zero to that speed in a second flat (again just for example number) that would also be "motor cycle levels of performance" that I would qualify as needing some kind of operators lísiense but not necessarily an over the age of 16 full blown drivers license either. There might even need to be a few different stages of license but roughly speaking I think any bicycle the has performance levels that surpass what an average non power road bicycle could on level ground should require some level of operators license. The helmet thing is still an issue as well. Before anything else I'd have bicycle required to be immediately impounded if they are caught riding without a helmet and while under age. I would make if a minimal or even no fine, especially for the first offense. I'm sure that for the most part the repercussions having their parents go down to an impound to pick up their bicycle would be plenty of punishment.
I got a friend who does Postmates deliveries on his e-bike every now and then. when he's riding through the city doing his deliveries he's wearing the same helmet that he would wear if he was doing downhill mountain biking. People look at him weird because it looks like he's just on a bike but when he takes off and he's keeping up with traffic if not blowing past them that crazy speeds they get it.
We hear you’re up for an Oscar this year.
If not, you should be!
He should be
@@KLRJUNE did the video not say manufacturers voluntarily withdrew them to *prevent* them from being made illegal. I seem to remember that or am I mistaken?
@@KLRJUNE " In January 1988, sales of new three-wheel all-terrain vehicles (ATVs) were banned in the United States because of the high incidence of injury associated with their use, especially by children" according to Pubmed.org. I had to look it up, I wasn't sure.
@@ronaldm4392 it appears that it was a consent decree...very similar to a ban in its result. And apparently it has lapsed but the manufacturers are still abiding by it. I would say the wording is close enough to correct for a title. www.carscoops.com/2021/01/the-story-of-how-and-why-three-wheel-atvs-were-banned/
More abrasive than an Internet forum slayed me XD
same here LOL
All I can think about is how tame forums are nowadays compared to 2004. Rated PG by comparisson.
I'm an avid pedal cyclist (road bike) and have been riding since I was 6 years old. I'm very good as controlling my bike in all types of situations. In 45 years of cycling I have only had one accident involving a car and two crashes from inattentive cyclists. With e-bikes, those people that ride them typically have not ridden pedal bikes and don't not have the experience of handling a pedal bike, let alone an e-bike that can go 35 mph. I've had several near misses with e-bike riders due to their poor handling skills and speed that is beyond their abilities. Numerous times I have been passed by e-bike riders where they are traveling at over 25 mph on a street with heavy auto traffic. As the number of e-bikes increase you will see a substantial increase in serious injuries and deaths as these cyclists don't have the requisite ability to handle the e-bike.
I used to ride bikes a lot but took a break for a while. I am interested in getting an e bike now. Do you think it would be okay if I just used my e bike on its lowest petal assist setting?
@@TheGreatWasian_ - You'll get a feel for it after a few days. I started slow then got comfortable running at it's full speed at 20mph which feels perfect (not too fast or slow). You can always temper it with the breaks, or lower the max-speed setting, at a moment's notice. They're really quite easy to control.
You are making an assumption.
As one who commuted into the big city (~40 miles daily) on a medium sized mc, it was interesting to hear your list of advantages. It's changed a bit in 40 years!
In Finland, where I live, e-bike electric assist is limited to 25 kph (15.5 mph). Traffic design is also less car-centric and bicycle infrastructure.. exists. It's not great everywhere, but it's a thing. So this is one way to go. They are not motorcycle equivalents, they're what it says on the tin, electric-assisted bicycles, which go at bicycle speeds on bike paths and lanes. If you wanna go faster, electrically or otherwise, it's gonna be a motorcycle with all the associated licensing and standards.
It's technically the same case in the UK, it's illegal to use an E-bike which goes over 15.5mph under its own power without a motorcycle license. However, the problems with that are that if you make one which goes faster, you have to register it as a motorcycle and get a numberplate etc etc, which is easier said than done. As it is, my E-bike does about 22mph and I have a license, but I'm not going through the hassle of registering it given how low the speed is
This, when he said he went at 60 in his bike I was shocked, no ebike here can reach those speeds, that's an electric motorcycle masquareding as an ebike.
@@henriquerauen yea In the USA the legal speed for a ebike is 28 mph if it’s a class 3 750 watt anything higher then that is not considered a E-bike and needs to get registered as a moped
@@henriquerauen but since the USA is so car dependent verses Europe people can get away with more powerful E bikes than 750 Watts so here’s the ultimatum E bikes in the United States can go faster compared to Europe. However, the USA has shit bike infrastructure, which makes it a lot more dangerous compared to Europe, where the bike infrastructure is amazing.
@@coreykirby1632 that's insane, waaay too fast to be safe in a bike. In those circumstances I'd agree that a motorcycle would be safer. Ebikes that can go this fast are basically motorcycles with shitty brakes, worst grip, shitty speed control (accelerator) etc. It's a shitty motorcycle disguised as a bike.
In the Netherlands your ebike is allowed to go 25kmph otherwise you have to get a special moped license plate
They understand cycling.
Jep! Here in Germany too. 60 mph on a cycle with no gear at all? Damn! And you guys are complaining about no speed limits on the Autobahn? I mean i know whats more dangerous! :D Greetings to the Dutch and to everybody who reads this!
Same here in Switzerland... Look at bikes in general. Most of them don't have safety equipment (light, reflectors, mirrors).
The UK is much the same, except higher power bikes aren't really recognised by law at all, and would technically just be classed as motorbikes. I'm a cyclist and a motorcyclist and I'm not convinced this 'X is more dangerous than Y' type coverage is particularly helpful. So what? The fact is we should push for better infrastructure for all, and it benefits all of us if people with short commutes are incentivised to ride bicycles and ebikes. Likewise, a motorcycle is better for longer distances, but still takes up a lot less space than a car.
Idiotic European regulations.
Been riding motorcycles on the street for 15 years now. Was only ever hit by a car on a bicycle which was just last year (hopefully that doesn't change). Wasn't bad, but he accelerated into me head on. I was able to get my hips over the hood of the car when getting struck sideways, so I slid up the hood and avoided serious injury, and the heavy DH mountain bike took all the force. I think his plate cut my ankle a bit. I was on my way to go rock climbing and did it just fine afterwards too. My mileage ratio on bicycles vs motorcycles isn't even close either. I've logged tens of thousands on motorcycles. It seems to be when people are pulling out to turn vs riding parallel to drivers on a bicycle, where they just don't pay attention well enough.
I ride an e-bike and love it, but I'm glad for this video. Going too damn fast without motorcycle protections can easily be a fatal error. So, primarily try to avoid making a habit out of going too fast down hills, (despite the temptation), without such protections. My favorite rides are quiet country roads with very light traffic. Many of these roads have no shoulder area for added protection, and have nothing but uneven grassy terrain existing beyond the asphalt. When two cars begin to converge in a direction that might place them alongside me, I will just stop, and walk the bike a couple of feet off the road. Of course, many people will slow down to avoid this, but many others are guaranteed to be in a hurry, so just for good measure I take this evasive action. I'm not in the slightest hurry, so to me it's no inconvenience.
In the EU, e-bikes are limited to 25 km/h for this reason.
Regulation is not a solution for imbecility, ebike riders should be careful, not limited
They are not in the United States?! 25 kph and dedicated bicycle infrastructure is what makes bicycles safer than scooters here in the Netherlands. (I ride both). Also, bicycle helmets are fairly flimsy (although will help), but still do not make cycling on 80 kph roads safe.
@@sybrandwoudstra9236 Bicycle helmets are very important to use, especially if ur riding fast. But I've been to the Netherlands as a cyclist, and everyone watched us like aliens, just because we rode with helmets on :D
@@princeg973 If there are no bicycle lanes, you should (not need to by law) put on a helmet, although I doubt it will save you from a car which is traveling at 80 kph (50 mph).
@@sybrandwoudstra9236 I don't know why a car should hit me at 80 kmph, but I agree there woudn't be a big advantage using a helmet. But riding hills and mountains, I can easily hit 65+kmph on my road bike, and if I get a puncture or anything similar, I'd prefer that my helmet would get rasped away by the tarmac rather than my skull. And I have already been in situations, where a helmet made a diffrence. I grew up using a helmet, and I don't see a reason why not to use one. It isn't unconvenient for me. But in the Netherlands the bike lanes are great and most people ride with the so called Holland-bikes. So people don't exceed speeds over 25 kmh. Nevertheless I still would be using a helmet.
In Germany, E-Bikes are limited to support you up to 25kph/15,5mph, beyond that it's muscle power if you want to go faster. That really helps in keeping the accident numbers down. There are practically no high speed accidents, just typical "normal low speed" bike accidents. [Edit: Speed]
Yeah but this makes e-bikes useful only in mountains or for people with under average fitness level
@@damiannn23 I dont see the problem tbh. For normal people there's a normal bike that is so much more affordable. And moving a bike by your own builds your muscles and is healthy.
@@damiannn23 that's the point of e bikes. If you want a motorised vehicle, ride an e motorbike
@@damiannn23 Or, you know, experienced cyclists who'll be 60 next birthday and could use a hand over those hills. We exist too.
On a hilly terrain it makes the difference between arriving to work sweaty or not.
I like your presentation style. I have an e-bike, but it's looks like a small scooter. (Niu UQi+ Sport) To get better at riding regularly at 30kph (a speed I can't reach on my human-powered bike), and considering the accelerative power and shape of it, I look for motorcycle tips and tricks videos like this one. I was amazed at first that things like counter-steering or making tight U-turns apply to my situation. I overheard a cyclist pointing out my scooter-like e-bike and complaining that she now has to look behind her before over taking someone, for fear of a speedy e-bike coming from behind in the bike lane. I told her that bike, e-bike, pedestrian, motorcycle, or car, you ALWAYS have to look behind you before overtaking anything or anyone. I've been cut off waiting at a red light by a speedy cyclist burning that red light! E-bikers aren't the problem... dumb commuters are. 😜 Safety first! She grumbled and cycled away, still hating e-bikers... EDIT: Just realizing now that this video is over 2 years old. I just subscribed, so my feed is filling it with your older stuff... lol.
This is actually such an important message to get out there. There are so many things that individuals and city planners etc could be doing to help.
Funny thing is, in germany the faster ebikes actually require you to have a license by law. If the pedal assist allows you to reach speeds of over 25 kilometers per hour you need atleast a 50 CC License to ride them and they need to have a scooter licenseplate and insurance. If the eBike is faster then 45 Kilometers per hour its classified as a motorcycle and requires you to have a motorcycle license.
Quite thankful for that actually, enough dangerous incompetents around already on 25kmh limited ones.
This is the same/similar to the UK and I think it's fair enough.
@@Exgrmbl 25kph or 50kph.. speed, incompetence and stupidity. The human condition excels in two of them.. and it ain't speed. 😅
yeah but ebikes over 25 seem inpractical. drivers see you as a bycicle and expect you to get off the street and on the bikelane. i personally prefer my limited bike for fun and commuting :)
@@Exgrmbl exactly what I thought of as really dangourous, too. Just got rammed by one and quite many close hits of those as I stopped my old school bike (without electricity) at a stop sign. At a stop sign. When traffic was coming. ...
As a motorcycle instructor finally i can show this video to people when they ask me what is more safe
3:02 A car then a pedal cycle then a motorcycle. Car 57x safer than a motorcycle. Pedal cycle 4 x safer than a motorcycle. I'm not sure they were the stats you were after?
@@martinlong8739 Motorcycle have bright lights, turn signals and CAN RIDE ON THE ROAD. a bicycle is doomed to get smashed because you cannot ride in the middle of the street and "take your place". you are BY LAW required to be on the side of the road. no more than a dog.
As long as ur in the US because none of this is relevant to Uk electric bikes which are limited to 15.5mph top speed. The top speed this guy achieved on an electric bike is 40mph. I ride motorbikes as well, 25yrs now with full licence, and on our uk roads, riding a motorbike nowadays is far more dangerous.
@@Francois_Dupont Hello Francois, I agree with all you have put except the stats provided at 3:02 show you are 4 x more likely to be killed on a motorcycle than a pedal cycle. And 57 x more likely to die on a motorcycle than in a car. I own a motorcycle, car and an ebike but those stats are quite sobering.
A gigantic chunk of motorcycle injury and death stats is just the rider. Drunk, stoned, incompetent, racing, sqidding, street fighting, stunting, children on liter bikes, pillions when the rider himself is barely competent or sober, .... That may or may not be a majority, but it is a pretty solid slice of the gravel eating pie.
I've been commuting on an ebike for a few weeks now, and I couldn't agree more. It's convinced me I'd love switching to a motorcycle as soon as I can afford it. At this point my bike is basically a 50cc scooter anyway. I added mirrors, turn signals, and even switched to a full face helmet after learning the hard way that rain hurts at 30mph
You're not supposed to ride an ebike in rain anyway
Nice F800GS. I toured all around croatia a couple of summers ago on my F800ST. Had a blast.
When people in cars see a bicycle approaching, they're not expecting it to be going 30 mph.
people with expensive road bikes can usually get up to 25-30mph speeds without electric assistance
@@jakermeister269 And super cars can easily do 200mph, that doesn't mean people expect to encounter them on a downtown commute. Moron.
@@sdghtjsdcgs you're comparing 25-30mph to 200mph in a city commute. ok makes sense
No need to get aggressive - you're both correct. The problem is that an e-bike that can pull 50kph or more is not an e-bike, it's an electric motorcycle, and should be treated as such.
I think they should be at 30 km/h not 30 mph lol, ppl don't know how to bike
The video title should be, "Why Stupid People are More Dangerous than Others."
Stupid cyclists of course
🤣🤣
@@NomadFM And stupid BMW cars drivers of course
Yes but we are all stupid sometimes, often without even knowing it. To err is to human. Your attitude reeks of a superiority complex.
@@zUJ7EjVDa stupid cyclist makes an excuse about infants.
Most of the clips showing e-bike accidents showed someone doing something really stupid, e.g. turning left in front of an oncoming car. That doesn’t show that e-bikes are inherently more dangerous, only that some e-bike riders seem to think they are invincible.
Awesome video. Right on the money. Thank you!
60.5 kph seems really fast for an ebike. In California, Class 3 ebikes are required to cut off assist at 28mph (~45 kph). Above that you enter the category of 'motor driven cycle' that requires a Class M2 license and is forbidden on bicycle paths. EDIT it looks like the bike in your video is a Norco Scene VLT which tops out at 25kph- have you done something naughty to your controller? ;)
Of course they take fast ebike, and they say its sooo dangerous, image if i said going 200kph on motorcycle is dangerous, of course it is. I mean not a lot of people drive 65kph on ebike, mine goes max at 45
Add in some downhill and I can see it happening on a vanilla e-bike. I usually hit ~41kph going downhill on a peddle bike/my e-bike without assist.
In Japan it’s like 24 kph. It’s way too slow. Also you could hit 60 kph on a long straight downhill with tailwind pretty easily
@@hamsterdam7589 It's not too slow. It's a bike. you want to travel faster, get equipment like a motorcyclist insurance and such
In the UK and Europe, the maximum is 25 km/h. At that speed, I don't think an ebike would be more dangerous than a motorcycle
I commuted on a MC for several - years. The answer is dedicated bike lanes that do not mix with traffic at all.
You mean parking place for Ford Transits and Porsche Taycans? We already have that where I live
@@luchadorito Then prepare yourself with some windshield stickers and stick them when you get them on your bike lane. Maybe they will learn something from your message, or maybe not, but at least you did tried to change that.
"Dedicated bike lanes" is a misnomer. Those are the most basic, unprotected form of bike lanes. What you're probably thinking of is called a cycletrack. Check out NACTO! nacto.org/publication/urban-bikeway-design-guide/
Yes another waste of taxpayers money for an entitled minority
@@motoclonkdribblehead5423 Why do you hate keeping people safe, healthy, and alive? That ought to be what taxes are for! Want to talk about entitlement? Like when unhealthy, angry people exert the smallest force in their calf muscle to rocket 7000lbs of metal toward human beings, all while killing the planet? You mean that sort of entitlement? get outta here
I commute by motorcyle and ride my bike to run some errands or for exercise. My trainning and experience does help, but I´ve also come to understand that the lack of motor to get out of danger and the power of the brakes are completly different from one another and requires attention.
The majority of your safety concerns with ebikes are related to the abohorrent cycle infrastructure where you are filming and not with the bikes themselves.
True, but not all cities are like Amsterdam.
@@X_mano True, but it's not the e-bike that is dangerous in those cases, it is the car-centric road design that is dangerous.
The ending speech is so adequate.
Except one thing... filtering. Here in North America we are forced to act like cars. I feel plain stupid sitting there waiting to be crushed in a concertina accident when I moto to work. A bicycle can just wiz past on the bike lane.
@@JasonWD As long as it's done responsibly I agree about that
ride as if everyone on the road is trying to kill you. Edit: wow didn't expect this to blow up. I guess you all can relate XD
They are!
That a bit frightening to me. My father tough me to think for the others. And it helped me foresaw some potential accident (with calm and good reflexe)
That's what my Dad always said haha
Everyone is already trying to kill me.
@@Visiorary They're not. Don't be silly.
I agree completely agree with your assessment. As someone who is presently using an e-bike to replace a car what I can attest to is that the extended range that an electric bike allows is great, but when you are out on the road, all the dangers that existed before on a non e-bike still remain. Some entail cars passing you, and the limitation of speed. In riding it, I had the same opinion, my e-bike needs more equipment, like standard rear view mirros. I also realized, unlike a standard bicycle, there's a heightened level of skill that e-bicycle riders need to have to avoid traffic citations, obstructing right of way of other vehicles, and dealing with the added weight and speed of the bike itself. I drew the same concusion, when you weigh all the pros and cons, more often than not, a motorcycle may actually be safer than e-bikes. The case for stepping up to a motorcycle also becomes more evident the further you may have to ride on metropolitan area roads when riding distances exceed 20 miles.
As a teenager who never got his drivers license yet, the way I always traveled to places for around 4 years now, was via e bikes. Since I’m in a very very countryside area getting hit by cars is very low compared to a more urban area, but I do agree how it is more dangerous. With lower personal safety and drivers not looking out for bikers, I do agree that E bikes are way more dangerous. This is a great video !
2:00 e-woah
In many countries, e-bikes are only allowed to assist you up to ~22 km/h. After that, it's on you to go faster. This is no doubt effective, but probably sucks for those who can safely go faster (people in rural areas etc)
In the Netherlands they can go up to 25 and up to 45 with a license plate and helmet.
idk if people in rural areas can "safely" go faster so much as they are taking on more risk due to poorer infrastructure, but there's so little traffic so the danger doesnt feel real until a car flies out of a blind crest and turns you into pudding. then your leftovers are removed and it feels safe to the next cyclist.
@@yanDeriction I'm talking about sidewalks though, not roads. Where I live, sidewalks are for bikes and people - and they're usually very empty. So I don't care about going at 22km/h when i have a big stretch of empty in front of me.
@@logitech4873 I wish it were legal for me to bike on the sidewalk
BECOME UNGOVERNABLE RIDE BIKES FAST
I've been hitting 60 mph on skiis since I was 10, weaving through trees on a mountain bike for years, and ice climbing over hundred foot drops in the mountains.... But my parents think a motorcycle is too dangerous......
It is, you were weaving through trees on a controlled enviroment, you safety relied mostly on yourself and your skills. When using a motorcyle in public roads your safety depends not only on you, but also on the thousands other road users, and some of them are just complete idiots.
@@denismiranda1372 most are complete idiots ;)
@Circadian Circus That’s great to hear! Good that both sports are borrowing features and designs from each other. In the end everyone wins because we get more freedom to do whatever it is that we want to do on the mountain 😃
@@denismiranda1372 That's why you need to get a motorcycle license and proper gear. People act like most people just hop on a motorcycle with no gear and crank it to 200 mph the second they get their hands on one. That image is incredibly far from the truth. Millions in Europe commute on motorcycles just fine.
Michael Schumacher
The whole video was summed up in the last 5 seconds. Love it
I dang knew it! I saw earlier a video of some actually using these, and how fast they take off I can't believe! at least with bikes you start going slow and steady and most likely travel at a safe speed. I can see how it would be easy to crash on this.
I rode an ebike to work a few months. It was so much more scary than a motorcycle. I had so many close calls almost every day but I'd arrive at work happy.
Ah, that's probably a side effect of all that adrenaline of nearly dying countless times in your commute.
@@GashimahironChl 😂😂 might be.
Yeah me too, I then bought a motor bike, but thought I might return to the ebike for a bit in the summer months. Defo felt scared on the roads on an ebike. Just use it for recreational trips now.
@@juzzlookin lol the plus is I can where I want basically
@@GashimahironChl That "get to live for another day"-feel really gets you through the work week
As a RTW motorcycle rider and a professional Down Hill mountain biker I love Ebikes for what they can offer us competent riders BUT..... I have also working in a Ebike shop for the past 2 months in New Zealand (where there's no speed limits for Ebikes and you can use throttles) and 80% of the clients are over 65 years old. The crashes our customers have are very common and usually very bad. Yet when I say I ride motorcycles they also say that I should stop as they are dangerous. So this video sums up my life atm, well done shain FortNine
This is so true, in the downtown route I have run I've seen many scooters e-bikes has just get porked bad because they're not visible
I commute on an E mountain bike ,which is pedal assist only. With this arrangement you have total control of the bike, if you don't pedal you get no assistance. I believe it's the safest kind of E bike, because when you stop pedalling the motor stops.
I wonder if Ryan analytics told him that 50% of his audience are E-Bike Riders.....Hence the video. hahaha
I thought about building one, but my state (NSW Australia) has it regulated to all buggery. 200W or 250W the last time I checked, and a third of a horse is just not worth it.
@@carneeki Thats most places actually. Here is the US many states are limited to 500W and a few have 250W restrictions, only one state is very good at enforcing it and thats New York. I live in the most forgiving state, MN. Minnesota allows for 1000w bikes. And if you go beyond that, you are not illegal nor legal, ride at your own risk and stay off trails, as trails generally will not allow e-bikes. outfit your bike with lights and mirrors for safety and to avoid troubles with police
@@carneeki gov, killing Innovation one thousand regulations at a time. The worse part is they often kill so many unexplored opportunities as they have so little knowledge of any field they just go with "sounds good" regulations. Then usually find out the treatment is far worse than the symptom. In this case, speed of electric bicycles are the same as mopeds (but you can pedal them?)
@@RonaldBrowen3 That just sounds like an electric motorcycle with more steps...
50%... For real??
"The UK has a culture of commuting on two wheels" really, that's not my experience, you should look to the continent for bicycle culture
Especially dutch, Denmark second Belgium third..
Compare to the US, it is.
@@armchairwarrior963 yep. Same with Canada. Come springtime and you'd think no-one had ever seen a 2-wheeler (just like the first snowfall of winter you'd think it had never snowed up here before).
That’s a lie u get arrested for using an electric scooter
Motorbikes are quite common here though
I'd totally agree with your conclusion if the media didn't paint ebikes with the same brush as motorcycles, some old man with 6 DUIs on an ebike gets smoked because he doesn't follow rules and the media starts ringing the "motorcyclist dead, raise the insurance rates" bell.
In the Netherlands ebikes are split into 2 categories, those limited to only boost you up to 25kph, and those that go above that. The former are treated like regular bicycles, the latter more like mopeds.
I ride with the thought that they don't see me and ride with that in mind.
yep, act as if its a zombie apocalypse and they are all trying to smash open your brain for a tasty treat and you stand more chance of surviving to ride another day
Instructions unclear: the cop said I'm gonna be charged with indecent exposure.
I ride with the thought that car drivers are assholes until proven otherwise
exactly! I am invisible. nobody knows I am there, it is up to me and me alone, IF I'M IN AN ACCIDENT IT IS MY OWN FAULT, I failed to foresee a dangerous situation and avoid it. Having that philosophy will serve you much better than blaming cars and their drivers. Doesn't really matter who's fault it was if you're splattered on the road.
I drive with the assumption that all riders are suicidal as this seems to be the manner in which they ride, and the burden is on me not to facilitate their intentions lest I'm the one who gets charged for it...
"I'm not going to tell you to be safe, just leave us alone" Is not what I was expecting.
but is a great conclusion
@@Trioptio If you leave us alone first.......
It is interesting that every time you tell somebody that you ride a motorcycle, they have some horrifying story of somebody who got killed or maimed on motorcycle. You will never hear such story about the bicycle or minivan. It is almost like defense mechanism. I can't do that, it is too dangerous. Kind of like vaccine. I want vaccine, why don't you. Kind of reverse but, same fear mechanism.
It was a topic I never thought about. Very informative. Not something I would be offended by. I bet you never thought about it......
Once again, FortNine nails it!
Don't have a bike yet but it's nice to see anything here on the subject that is thought out thoroughly and calmly.
“Half a helmet and happy thoughts”. I only ever needed a ‘Black t-shirt and my personality’ for my commute.
I typically like to cover my 'personality' with at least a pair of pants, but you do you :P
I live in AZ where they tried to mandate bicycle helmets a while back - but motorcycles? Helmet is not necessary--- crazy
@@pewpewdragon4483 killer haha
I do... NOT tryna lose teeth over fun
@@BradTech. how does a bicycle helmet save your teeth?
The one exception I would take to this assessment - and it is a very context dependent one at that - is that some cities have good bicycle infrastructure separated from cars. Mixed use trails through parks or on former rail corridors. If you're able to do a significant portion of your commute on that kind of route, the e-bike becomes the much safer option. With the very important caveat that you keep your speed to the reasonable level of a normal bike, and just enjoy the benefit of assistance for getting started and going up hills. Whether we're taking about e-bikes or e-scooters or more novel mobility solutions like the One Wheel, there's no question that we're in an awkward transition phase and unfortunately it's going to take a lot more people getting hurt and killed before we sort out how best these vehicles can share the road with cars.
Yes if the infrastructure is good ebikes are better but still have a large amount of inherent danger
To Adam Lytle : That is very well said. Thank you.
Redditor bullshit
I would like to argue that the biggest problem with e bikes is lack of accountability on accidents. Many countries make it mandatory for drivers and motorcyclist to be have at least 3rd party insurance for damages they cause with their vehicles when they get into an accident. Now we are talking about electric bicycles that can easily end a child's life. Why is there no mandatory insurance implemented?
Very reasonable and objective statements, well said
Here's why I want an E-bike. • I want access to bicycle infrastructure, the further I can be from cars, the better • I don't think I have the means to store a motorcycle. • Insurance is expensive! Ideally I'd like to rid myself of car ownership & vehicle insurance as a whole. • I haven't investigated how practical a motorcycle could be for shopping. (I want an Electric Bakfiets specifically) We definitely need to do something with respect to the accountability and training of high-speed cyclists.
It's a perspective problem driven by ego. Most people see e-bikes, Spyders, and Rykers as "safer" alternatives to motorcycles. Due to that mindset, the result is often a voluntary failure to recognize the inherent dangers, as well as a failure to build an understanding for anything beyond, as you stated, 'happy thoughts'.
His filming style and production value are second to none.
It's hard to remember this is essentially marketing for fortnine.ca probably because quality videos and quality recommendations come first and there are barely even any advertisement for the site and frankly it probably worked on me because whenever I get a bike im probably going to order gear off of fortnine.ca
Its a whole ass team
correct, if there weren't none he would be second to third, fourth, etc,
I don’t know who None is but his videos must be amazing
What do you mean his filming style ia second to none?
Can we just appreciate how consistently good these videos are?
We all do it, for a long time now
yes sirrrr
And yes!
75% of the comment are gushing over how they deserve an Academy Award. It's boring now.
Well I mean he does no?
Imparfe he says?LOL! As always, love how your entertaining videos. You ought to be an actor.
I've had a motorcycle license for 20 years. I don't currently own a motorcycle, but I do own an e-bike I use around town. I set it to class 3 once (28mph) and immediately put it back to class 2 (20mph). Bought aftermarket mirrors. Thankfully my ebike came stock with headlight and rear light/brake light or I'd have added those too.
Introducing the e-bike's annoying kid brother: the kickboard e-scooter, laying in the middle of an urban sidewalk near you.
They shouldn't be allowed on the road.
and the baby brother the "hoover" board
I ride an e-scooter. It has blinkers, it has an after-market mirror, 2 1000lumen lights and reflectors all over. I wear a full face helmet and I ride in the bycycle lane when available. The vehicle isn't the problem. It's riders and the culture behind it is.
Henning, you are a good operator- thanks for rolling the way you do. 👍🏼
@@RickyJr46 Thanks Ricardo. I try to set a good example since e-scooters already have a bad rep.
To answer a common question: yes, the e-bike in this video pedal assists up to 32km/h. It's possible to do that speed, even uphill, with minimal effort. Hitting 60.5km/h was not the result of illegal modifications or Herculean leg strength. Just downhill. ~RF9
In Ryan's defense not all e-bikes are limited t 32km/hr. My MTB is but my wife's commuter is not. She boasts of hitting 45km/hr and sometimes nearly 50km/hr ON THE FLAT.
@Strawberry Kiys 60km/h in bicycle more dangerous simply on stoping capabilities. put wider tyre and hydrolic brakes on
@Strawberry Kiys did you not see the video? Motorcyclists have full gear such as armour jacket, gloves, kevlar/leather pants, boots, helmet and airbag vest. cyclists dont have that luxury and are more in danger if hit by a car.
If you were going downhill when hitting the 60, that completely negates the electric part, I can do 60kph on an unpowered bike as well going down hill. This video makes no sense, as we're now comparing motorcylces to ordinary bikes.
@@den-iq1cv eh, 95kmh was max speed I ever had on a bicycle and I had to pedal to archive that on a fire road down. Hydraulic brakes are common on e bike's here. Some are still no disc brake but hydraulic. 40 kph with my MTB on asphalt, I can stop in 5meters. Tires are 29x2.6" upfront and 29x2.45" on the back. Tires are expensive in the MTB realm, 60€ each. Brakes are as usually hydraulic, 203mm rotors front and back. Sinter metal pads. Brakes are the most expensive ones 450€ each. Would be possible even with the cheaper 75€ brake's.
San Diego, Calif... Legislation in progress: " Helmet, Lights, Gear, and possibly mandatory lic... Really, too many accidents. Great Clip!
As an avid cyclists who often rides their bike 15 miles each way to work, I whole heatedly believe throttled e-bikes that don't require pedaling should be treated like motorcycles or at the bare minimum mopeds. If it's pedal assist it's more akin to an actual bicycle and people cannot fly 60mph through 3 lane traffic on it. Additionally, reputable brands such as Giant, Trek, and Specialized are building their pedal assist e-bikes to a significantly higher standard. I work in a bike shop and see the scariest shit when people bring in their throttled e-bikes capable of 40-60mph that are just so poorly assembled they're basically a road hazard.
If it can go higher than 28mpg (or 20mph in many places) then it already is regulated as something higher than a bicycle, typically as a moped. You can't ride those beasts on bike paths or pedestrian paths, by law. If someone chooses to break the law, then the only thing we can do is increase enforcement. But remember, just because it has a throttle, doesn't mean it's dangerous. My e-bike has a throttle and it maxes out at 20mph, and also has peddle assist if I want to use it. Don't hamper me just because some people drive illegal vehicles dangerously.
Honestly that sounds cool as long as it is well designed.
Been riding bikes and ebikes for years. I avoid high traffic areas and hardly ever travel on the side of a busy road. I cut through industrial areas, neighborhoods, parking lots, trails.
Same here. I just bought a ebike in August (300 miles so far ) and I usually only ride on the busy streets if they have a dedicate bike lane or a really wide 2 lane road. Besides that its more fun exploring side streets you usually avoid when driving.
Truly important to stay AWAY from danger. Specially until we see changes in our roadways and rules.
This video is so disingenuous. Obviously don't ride it recklessly and don't go too fast. If you use it as a pedal assist when you want to have some cargo, or just want to cruise up a hill instead of sweating your ass off they are great and not any more dangerous than a regular bike. A lack of bike and pedestrian infrastructure is the real problem.
@@rlanesports QA
@@populal what's up
As an ebike commuter, I’ve taken a lot of advice from this channel and treat my bike more like a motorcycle than a regular bicycle. Especially given that since it’s a RadRunner Plus with a controller upgrade and planned 1000w motor swap in the near future, at this point it basically is an electric motorcycle with a lower top speed.
Do you have turn indicators, brake light, and headlight?
@@leandrog2785 I’ve got all of those except the turn indicators, and I plan on ordering those soon.
Problem with juicing them to be secret motorbikes is you're in big trouble if you crash while driving what is actually an uninsured motorbike.
Where I live that would legally be a moped, the cutoff for an E-bike is 250w
@@littleripper312 One really important difference between an e-bike and a motercycle is weight. You're a lot more likely to kill a pedestrian on a 500 pound motorcycle than a 50 pound ebike.
Thanks, I probably needed to hear this since I bike all the time and just bought my first e bike. I think I will stick to sidewalks until I see someone walking then just hop off my bike if the path is too small.
Great video ❤
as an e-cyclist myself, I sincerely apologize for my non red-light-abiding peers 😅
when i jump a red its because i know the timing, i never cause other users issues. they are just pissed i can move quickly and cant imagine how i do what i do. its a shame. especially given european cities without road signs or mandatory rules do just fine provided the speed stays under 20mph.
No red lights is one of the few power-ups of the eBike.... zzzzoooommmm!!!!
@@RussellDeacon Pretty sure every european city requires licensing for drivers and there are rules of the road. If there weren't, I doubt you'd think the chaos would be "just fine" Also 20 mph is slow, I don't know of many traffic situations where cars never exceed 20 mph for an entire trip.
keep that momentum
@@hamzterix it takes less energy to keep an object in motion then to get it in motion
This deserves a mandatory national broadcast.
lol...I agree
That's a brilliant idea
yeah man!
International please. I want people in austria to see this too.
In every country
This is yet another great example of giving cyclists more roads undisturbed by motorists. Since North America for that matter is extremely car dependent, it's basically a death sentence for inexperienced cyclists merging with high speed traffic. This of course applies to basically all places that are car dependent. Definitely a great idea on paper, but without way more city planning to keep not only cyclists, but general motor traffic as safe as possible, this will sadly end in fatalities. Great video! I never actually knew how well bike gear protects us. It's crazy to see what the can take! Stay safe out there, pal!
This reminds me of the 1970's when mopeds were all the rage. I used one to commute to University. Increased traffic plus ever more regulation killed the product here in Toronto.