Can we SAVE this BROKEN Lathe? ~ MAJOR Issues found! ~ Will it Ever CUT again?
Today's plan is to dig into my 1959 Cincinnati HydraShift Engine Lathe that I rescued a few years back! This lathe was shoved into the back corner of a closed down machine shop and hasn't operated in DECADES. Most likely because its broken!
NO ONE knew what was wrong with it, NO ONE tried to figure it out, and NO ONE wanted it.... and at first, that included me!
I was told how "hard" these lathes can be to work on and that parts are VERY hard to come by and INCREDIBLY expensive if you CAN find them, so this one was a bit of a gamble!
Today I'll show you where this machine was rescued from, and then we'll dive into it's KNOWN problems and hopefully figure out additional issues along the way!
First up is cleaning the OLD beast, and WHO knows, MAYBE just MAYBE we've found a diamond in the rough here!
Join me, and we'll find out together whether or not I made a good purchase with this Old Engine Lathe! Either way, it should be a good time!
Sit Back, Relax, and let me do ALL the heavy lifting as we attempt to save this old lathe from the crusher!
~
Salvage Workshop Playlists YOU might ENJOY:
Rescuing OLD Iron - The Series - Saving Old Machines from being DESTROYED!
• RESCUING Old IRON - Th...
Saving & Repairing Old Equipment - • Fixing up OLD Heavy Eq...
Gehl 5625sx Skid Steer FULL Playlist: • Rescuing & Repairing m...
"Old Red" - 1956 Caterpillar 955 Tracxcavator - • "Old Red" - 1956 Cater...
Rescuing OLD Iron The Series - • RESCUING Old IRON - Th...
Restoring & SAVING an OLD Workshop - "The Cave" - • RESTORING an OLD Shop ...
~
Products That I Truly BELIEVE in:
BlakLader Workwear - Do you want incredible work pants? Look no Further!
www.blaklader.com/en @BlakladerWorkwear @BlakladerNA
IsoTunes - Industrial-grade hearing protection earplugs and earmuffs with Bluetooth
isotunes.com/ @ISOtunesAudio
Mr Cool - MRCOOL DIY is the only truly do-it-yourself ductless mini-split. Even YOU can install it!
mrcool.com/ @MrcoolComfort
~
0:00 - Introducing the Cincinnati HydraShift 17x54 Engine Lathe Built in 1959
0:35 - FLASHBACK ~ Rescuing the Old Lathe from where it was FORGOTTEN
4:19 - a quick walk around of the Lathe
6:48 - Let's talk about Lathe Chucks
12:06 - Introducing a Couple of the Salvage Brothers!
13:00 - HOW did OIL get into the electrical panel?!?
17:48 - Cleaning a MOUNTAIN of CHIPS from WITHIN the lathe
19:50 - Removing the Top of the HydraShift Lathe
21:33 - Removing the Hydraulic Shifting Head and Shifting Forks
24:27 - Inspecting inside the head of the Lathe
26:25 - Cleaning and Draining the Remainder of the Oil in the Head
31:22 - Adding a drain extension to the bottom of the Lathe Head
34:09 - Filling the Lathe with DIESEL FUEL!?!
36:12 - Reassembling the head of the Lathe
38:04 - FINALLY Starting up the lathe
40:02 - Testing the Lathe Head for gear problems
41:26 - What we Found!
42:38 - Draining the DIESEL from the Lathe & making a MESS!
43:55 - Removing the Electric Motor from the Machine
46:12 - Opening up the Electric Motor
47:22 - Discovering MAJOR issues in the ELECTRIC Motor
48:32 - Cleaning Out the mountain of WHITE powder from INSIDE the motor
51:30 - I found ANOTHER Growth of WHITE POWDER!
57:28 - Removing the OLD Bearings from the Electric Motor
58:15 - "Repairing" the Wires going to the Motor Windings
1:01:22 - Installing NEW Bearings on the Rotor Shaft
1:02:28 - Re Assembling the Electric Motor
1:05:09 - Re Installing the Motor in the Lathe
1:05:50 - I DISCOVERED the REASON the lathe doesn't WORK properly
1:10:11 - Repairing the Gear that Disconnected itself from the intermediate shaft
1:17:55 - Filling the head up with Hydraulic Fluid
1:19:01 DOES the White Powder Electric Motor STILL WORK?
1:21:31 - Showing how the gears are SHIFTED Hydraulically in the Head of the Lathe
1:24:25 - Putting the Cover on & Testing All of the Gears
1:32:18 - Adjusting the Shifter Knob to the Correct Setting
1:35:09 - Another round of Testing the Speeds and Shifting on the Lathe
1:37:42 - Looking at Issues on the Side of the Lathe
1:42:52 - What do we KNOW!?!
1:45:11 - Making a Replacement Gasket for the Lathe Head Top Cover
1:49:40 - Pressure Washing the Lathe Chip Collection Pan
1:50:43 - Another Quick Lathe Test
1:53:31 - FINALLY making a CUT with the Lathe.... I made a TOOL!
1:57:21 - We made a Stepped PUNCH... Thanks for watching!
~
If you have any suggestions, questions, or comments, please leave them below or contact us by email at: salvageworkshop@gmail.com
Thanks for stopping by, I truly appreciate your support!
#machinist #lathe #SalvageWorkshop
I can't beleive that motor was running with all that crap in it! What was even more mind blowing was that all they did was to clean it out, wire wheel the rust off, put some heat shrink on all the wires, and change the bearings. An it still worked when they put it back together!!! I thought that no one would selvage that motor without having to re wire the whole thing. Brilliant!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Nicely done guys 👍👍👍👍👍👍
As long as the crud was non-conductive and non-magnetic, the issue would be heat.
Quality motor. We need to get back to that as a nation.
Whenever I see early to midcentury equipment like this, the first thing I think is "I hope that doesn't end up in a scrap yard." It's so cool to see guys like you restoring this stuff.
Dude.... I stopped the video at 1 hour and 30 minutes (where you have the drawing) to say this: I've been watching you for YEARS and that catch you made with the key/pin issue just gained you the ENTIRE CAPACITY of that machine; and 1,000 cool-points!!! You are one of the most mechanically inclined people I've ever met/watched. I admire when you admit you have no f'n idea how to do something, but you ALWAYS figure it out. It's a true testament of "never give up", which you've mentioned before in a few videos. A lot of people would never have seen that missing pin, or wondered why the shaft was moving. That's the best "catch" I've seen you make, in ALL of your videos so far!! I'm very impressed! Btw, perhaps buy a small laser to help point-out things that are out of reach. It might help. Now, back to the video. 💪💪
Thank you my friend! I truly appreciate the compliment! I do want to say that my abilities are learned, and i truly believe that just about anyone, IF they believe they can and are willing to TRY, even with the possibility of failing, can learn to do anything they put their mind to... I have NO education in doing pretty much EVERYTHING you see me do on my channel, i didnt grow up on a farm or have a family member teach me any of this, i have always known i COULD do whatever i put my mind to, and THAT determination is what you are actually seeing.... that and years of trial and error where ive learned a bit more with each project... as well as a lot of research/ finding the right people to ask the right questions to! I do thank you for the compliments, but even you can do ANYTHING if your truly willing to give it a real TRY!
@@SalvageWorkshop It's really fun to watch you fixing this beauty (and also your other content!) ... and in a way it is also relaxing!:) While I subscribe to the points you made about learning, there are also important things to consider. Great respect for self-taught people. So let us self-teach some peculiarities of this field ( I am not talking about you, but in general ... and KZhead/social media). There are often dozens of ways to solve a problem. And sometimes only one or two of them are “the right one”. What are the chances that you, as an inexperienced person (which you inevitably are when you learn something new or teach yourself something), will find and use one of the "bad" approaches? So one that usually only reveals its pitfalls over time, or even poses a real risk to the occupational safety of you and others? This problem can be easily eliminated if you learn from a professional in this field, for example during training. This can teach lessons, correct moves and methods, but can also check the status of the training at the same time. On the other hand, you naturally learn from your mistakes and can consult specialist literature. Of course, neither of these guarantees success in the same way that learning from experts in a specialized company does. The big “danger” here is that you will pass on (some of) your wrong or flawed methods to thousands or millions of viewers. And yes, this can of course have a bad outcome due to the multiplication, which has definitely already happened (hence some warnings in the trailers of certain videos, which make a lot of sense). Let's be honest: self-taught people are often portrayed as heroes, but the dark side is not mentioned. But it is precisely the interested viewer who should have the competence to critically question everything they have seen. On the other hand, this way of learning (yes, of course, sometimes there are no alternatives) is very complicated, tedious and error-prone. You should always keep that in mind. You should always keep that as last resort and default to "asking an expert" (And if that will be via a book or even KZhead ... because there are actual experts, sharing their knowledge, giving safety advice and debunking such debatable methods that arise through self-taught-madness (botches! hehehe). Thanks for sharing your work, your ideas and expertise! Oh and also for the entertaining videos, hehehe:)
Yo repare la misma máquina con el problema del pasador salido le instale un perno roscado (saque el árbol) Lo hice hace 20 años y la maquina se utilizó hasta el 2022 que fue vendida por cierto el aceite Shell clavus 68 . Muy buen trabajo mis respetos por alguien que trabaja muy duro para que sus máquinas estén en condiciones. Te saludo afectuosamente Carlos desde Buenos Aires Argentina
If that shop was anything like our ancient shop rain would leak through the roof and cover many of the machines. All the exposed areas got cleaned, dried and re-oiled but hidden from sight spots like the motor, junction boxes and electrical panel never got touched leading to rust, peeling paint and similar white deposits.
Very inspiring, I have a 20 year old Jet lathe that I'm very fond of, I don't have the money for a new one. After watching one of your videos, I started the repair on my machine. Lucky for me the lathe is made by Jet, I was able to order all the repair parts I needed. It's finished now, and I feel the satisfaction you get when this piece of equipment is working like new. The repair parts around $400, a new lathe was around $3,400. Thanks for your videos, it's the kick in the butt needed to get started.🤓
You absolutely are not afraid to try and fix anything. Your diagnostic and repairing skills are at a very high level.
When that old Cincinnati was new there were probably a bunch of people standing around to watch it operate like a new CNC machine today, the most modern technology 😊
Now it's old and I STILL have a bunch of people "tuning in" to check out that same technology! Pretty cool!
Two (of many) rules for working with a lathe: - never work with gloves; - never approach rotating parts with a long red beard! And you will live happily ever after and will continue to delight us with your new releases for a long time...
would a long yellow beard be appropriate
I too was cringing when he got close to that spinning gear. It sure would make you’re eyes water getting caught up.
Or ties, I watch the guy , that had a tie on and he was using lathe demonstrating , If the tie would’ve got caught, that would’ve popped his head off
I remember Daryll Holland in one of his teaching video's ''People in the pony crowd tuck it away or you have a ''haircut'' in a hurry'' .
@@bishopkinlyside8477omg I zip tied an pulley rope to the front of an 4 cilinder Briggs and Stratton without thinking obviously 😂😂😂😂 didn't end well yesterday.
I'm a retired (42 years) R&D prototype machinist that used to have the Leblond version of that very lathe. Careful taking the shift mechanism apart! Lots of small parts that can be lost or reassembled incorrectly. I really enjoyed watching this video since I've been out of the game for nearly 3 years now. Have fun with that beautiful old lathe!❤
That lathe also resembles a COLCHESTER lathe I worked on many years ago, the twin gear selection levers were the same. I retired at 55 some 20 years ago, so the time I spent on small lathes was many years before that. I did use one for race engine lightning parts years later though. A very handy little lathe indeed. I ended up on VTLs for years then went on to 5 AXIS fully CNC machining centres for a few years. I ended up working far too hard so I retired - lol
I was saying NO leave that alone! When he pulled the shift head off. Just getting the linkage and shift dogs in the correct place is challenge enough, much less if they dropped out any detents or springs. Not a job for someone who seems to have a few hammers and pry bars and an adjustable wrench.
❤😂@@takedeadaim8671
Love LaBlond's.
I lost two fingers, well they did so them back on and they work but I can't play guitar anymore I can't feel them anymore. There are very important rules for a reason and you are right I was almost having a heart attack when he had his head by that moving gear it's insanely stupid and this guy is not a stupid person it took me almost losing two fingers terminally to fully respect these machines it was the most painful thing that I ever witnessed and I don't want to do it again heaven your fingers yanked off is horrifyingly painful I am so lucky they were able to fix them
Add a valve to the oil drain pipe you installed under the headstock, then attach a flexible hose pipe to the valve, this will make it easier to service the next time you want to drain the oil from the headstock into a bucket etc. Also add strong magnets to the lower part of the headstock they will capture any errant ferrous material that is resident inside the headstock, check the magnets whenever you change the oil, this can save a lot of expensive repairs.
Good advice, I reckon. Also, I would *not* tee the lower drain to join with the higher outlet to the filter. I consider the lower drain is what should be used to a) empty the sump periodically of any accumulated heavier-than-oil content, such as metallic wear debris and condensed atmospheric water vapour b) empty the entire headstock when an oil change eventually falls due
Wonder what the oil change interval would be for this. Or even if there is one.@@Gottenhimfella
@@lukula2934 Unless the headstock runs hot, like over about 60C (generally due to excessive preload on the axial bearings of the main spindle) there will generally be very little oxidation of premium oil; I think it's largely a function of wear detritus, and water condensation. The latter might only be a detrimental factor in an industrial lathe located in the vicinity of acid or other corrosive fumes, which could have been dissolved in atmospheric water vapour and build up in the oil over the years. This would be signalled by high levels of surface corrosion on unprotected cast iron or steel surfaces outside the headstock. If it's just pure water vapour condensing in the headstock, it will accumulate at the bottom of the sump and can just be drained off at regular intervals. If the lathe is on a ship, it would be more problematic as the motion of the ship could keep re-emulsifying it. Wear detritus can be monitored over time by comparing the colour of a sample drawn from the headstock with a small glass bottle saved from the same filling source and kept away from light. If the oil remains clear, does not become tacky or develop a different odour, and there is no detectable colour change, my untutored feeling is that there should be no need to change it regardless of age. It's a very different use case from (say) an IC engine.
I will watch every episode that you put out . Fixing machine tools or wheeled equipment is no matter to me. The longer the better.
I am a retired tool and die maker. There is a couple other reasons why there could be oil in the box. It could have got there by someone putting their oil can on top of the lathe, and oil could have got spilt, and simply just drained into the electrical box. Now I know what you're saying before I go forward.but The oil is kept in the pan yes it is but it is a different type of oil then what you normally would use if you are threading a piece of metal. Oil in the pan is soluble oil, oil that would have been kept on top of the ladies would be called cutting oil. Or tap magic there's a few different types of Orioles that used on a machine. The second way how the oil could have been in the electrical box even a soluble oil when the machine is running the head is spinning and it could easily have been a mist of oil being put in the air may be bouncing off the wall and over years and years dripping down into the electrical box. It very well could be there is no leak in the electrical box you just need to make sure them to scenarios don't happen, now as far as their jaws go. Measured the hardened jaws that you have. make three blocks that are the same size mill the slots on the backside of them the exact same depth with and length, drill the two holes onto the top with a Bridgeport for you can put your bolts in. Put them on the laid bring all jaws together drill a good size center whole through the jaws. Simply put a tool bit in the late or a boring bar to make it ID turning tool to make it OD port what they call a spider in the middle of all three jaws, easy way to make a spider is that you take a big not drill and tap a quarter inch 20 whole three of them for they go into the center of the jaws when you close them, that is how you turn the ODs to whatever size your part is, now 40 ID put a chain around her jaws make sure it's a good strong chain you put it together without bolt and a nut now you are ready to bore out to jaws for an ID hold. Usually you will have many different steps on the jaws for ID or oldie so you can use them jaws for many different jobs these are called blank jaws if you buy them, if you have a Bridgeport or a milling machine, you can do all this work right in-house. :-) At least that is what we use to do in the machine shop trade. The owner would just bite blank jaws and we would make them the correct size for the job we was working on but if you don't want to buy blank jaws you can machine them yourself. Now thinking about it for a 3/8 16 whole into your spider you don't want something very small where you can bend it easily by closing the jaws, but also remember do not go crazy on over tightening the chuck key, nice and snug that's all you need. I'll send you the bill in the mail of the knowledge I just sent to you :-) I hope you understood what I was trying to tell you, Sina a couple of the words that was not properly spelt. But I'm sure you can figure it out if you know anything of machining
Yes, I worked in a large tool grinding facility for 20 years. We used oil based coolant, sprayed from a nozzle at the point where the grinding wheel contacted the work piece. We had hundreds of machines running nearly nonstop. There was oil dripping from everything in the building, and almost no matter how well sealed a compartment, when you opened it…OIL!!!
Another reason oil or coolant can get into the electrical panel is a defective door gasket. When in operation cutting metal coolant spray can migrate into any opening.
Great contribution mate, your experience has to value for this young bloke
I like your theory. But I don't understand why he thinks oil in the electrical box would cause corrosion? I mean there's oil all over this thing and that the only spot it caused damage? I'm thinking water leaked on the box from the shop roof and collected in the box
The fact that water got in the motor makes me believe even more that water got in the electrical box not oil
Maybe the lower drain plug is not connected to the recirculating pump to allow a small amount of water and sludge to settle out of the recirculating oil. This will insure that the transmission is only operating only on oil. Automotive transmissions collect sludge in the bottom of the pan because the pickup of slightly above the bottom of the pan. I would not change the drain plug to a tee.
I think you are right and possibly a good idea to add a tap on this outlet so you can drain off a controlled amount
I agree with bitpit, I wouldn't have a clue tbh, but that was the first thing I thought of.
I also wouldn't stress too much about changing that oil too too often, that machine was made to run with a very specific oil and to run for a very specific amount of hours. If he goes and changes it every 2 hour it runs, he will end up ruining that gearbox.
I was thinking the same because it has a separate tray it comes out of, you can see the tray or box from underneath it where he connected the 1/2 pipe to drain it. should be a valve their instead of a plug.
Hi there Salvage Workshop, i just wanted to tell you how impressed i was with your workmanship and problem solving skills. you really need to know, common sense isn't that common at all but you have that skill in leaps and bounds. great episode today buddy really great work. im looking forward to the next journey. you take care brother and thankyou for sharing this lathe work it was fantastic.
Thank you Ben! I appreciate it! I think we need to start teaching a bit more common sense, and a lot less usless facts in schools these days, but who am I to say such a thing! I do believe that anyone can learn to do what i do if they're willing to TRY and they really WANT to do it! I didnt always know how to do petty much ANYTHING you see me do on the channel, but i wasnt afraid to fail, which leads to the confidence to DO ANYTHING! That applies to doing anything in life! Thanks for watching, i truly appreciate the support! Lot's more to come!
On the gear noise issue when you loosened the bolt it stopped making the rubbing noise so there could be a tight spot in the rotating assembly that it clamps. perhaps the washer is distorted. Also remember you are spinning straight cut gears pretty fast on a pulley with long spokes so there may well be a harmonic involved. you might try bluing up the rotating assembly and seeing if there is a tight spot that shows up just spinning by hand. Double thumbs up for bringing a great lathe back to life.
Not sure if you noticed, but there was a paper type gasket on the motor wire connection box when you opened it. Probably should make yourself a replacement gasket for that, eh?
That lathe will probably outlive more modern lathes. Enjoyed the process and the video. Thanks for sharing. Michael (from Scotland)
I love your channel and enjoy your work! I appreciate all you do to rescue the equipment! My first paying job at $1.10 an hour was in a machine shop with a family friend! I contacted Jim (called him Unkle) a lifetime machinist and there was nothing he couldn't do! I gave him the info of your machine. He has been retired for years and in his 90s now, but still sharp as ever! He said he had one just like it. He stated it has always been his favorite! He doesn't have any machine equipment anymore, but he said he keep all the equipment manuals and manufacturers rebuild manuals. He always did all his own repairs. He said if your interested and he can find all the books and manuals for it he would be honored to give them to you if your interested. Just let me know ( I've told him you would be honored to have the P/W and books and give them life again) hope you don't mind, because it made his day and got really excited about it! So, you'll be make an old machinist very happy. Talking to him sounded like he was giddy about it!😂 I'll keep you informed on his progress. He did mention something about s/n, but he couldn't remember its importance. Keep up the great work and thank you!
I truly appreciate the compliment Mike! It means a lot! You can tell Unkle Jim that I WOULD be honored to have any literature, manuals, sales brochures, or whatever else he has! Ill happily show the manuals in the next video on the lathe, im sure other people would like to see them! I really like having ACTUAL manuals for all my old machines, but i don't always get them! If you could send me an email at salvageworkshop@gmail.com when he finds them, that would be awesome! Thanks again, i really appreciate it!
Sir. you are a master at your trade. You have proven that when there is a will there is a way.Thank you from GERRY G. from canada
I bet that machine was in a flood and someone drained the main gearbox after but didn’t go much further. Make sure you service the feed gearbox.
That motor was more of an Archaeological dig than a restoration , nice job you have brought a large chunk of metal back to a very pre stable and usable machine 👍
*OMG... I have waited a long time to see one of the many machines, that you got all those years ago, up and working again. 🙂Thank you for doing this video, it has been so worth this long wait.... I looking forward to seeing you working on another of these old machines... to get them all going again and having a full working tool shop... 🙂nz.*
New life in an old machine... so good !!
I had a Cincinnati lathe just like that one in my shop. It is a solid machine. That old iron is not duplicated anymore. Even if you have to put some money in the lathe it will be worth it. Now as a hobby I pick up old tool room machines and refurbish them just for fun. Once you get everything running smoothly and get it trued-up, I would put a DRO on it and that lathe would be worth 15k easy.
I don’t think you want that really fine powdery metal to go through the filter. It’s better to let it settle in the lower sump and clean it out occasionally.
That's what I was thinking.
I love watching you repair old equipment. Wish I could do that now but I’m just too old and crippled to do such a thing. But I will keep watching you make old things new again and I will be happy watching your pleasure in restoring old things that someone thought was useless. Keep up the passion as I will also.
Me too!@@mikemarriam
Throw a magnet in the sump also.
Sumps in lathes are for catching heavy particles ,there should be a magnet in there two .If you are going to use the lathe 12 hours a day ,you need to service it regular there will be a scheduled somewhere ,internet or annual somewhere ,if occasional use only change ,filter clean once every few year.
I really enjoy these long format videos on repairing old iron!!!! Also would love to see a few rescue missions again!!! Nothing beats getting a timeless machine running again in the woods or a dusty barn. Keep them coming and I’ll keep watching
Great, but why the same shielded bearings and not Rubber sealed bearings and no sealant at electrical outer box where there was a gasket originally, and by the way that corrosion would most likely be the coolants fault.
Master of unobtanium gaskets... now making unobtanium parts. Not quite the same, but I bought a 3d printer that I have already made several unobtanium parts with. Designing the parts in CAD, spitting them out and having them fit properly is pretty rewarding.
Seams like if it was oil in the electrical cabinet you wouldn’t have all the rust.
Unless the oil removed the paint, then drained out years before..
I love all sorts A to Z. Shop,motoring,normal hand work. Like to see it all . Thanks 👍🏻👌🏻❤🙏🏻
As a Metalwork/ Woodwork teacher for 20 yesrs here in Australia I instilled in students SAFETY. Can you please review all the comments written here and take advice from people in industry or education. The breaches of safety have been mentioned and can you present your content with safety in mind. You are completely at ease with spinning pulleys and gears but the likelihood of an accident is clearly evident. Safety is paramount to getting the job done. In all my career the worst I've endured is a small cut to my hand otherwise I have no injuries. Please show safe methods of work by example.
I'm glad somebody gave voice to this, I keep seeing red beard hairs in the gears.
Fantastic job you did restoring that broken lathe. It must have a lot of hard work and sweat, not to mention that it was a dirty job. It looks much better and it works like a charm too. You and your partner helped to save it from the scrap yard. Excellent work.
You have an excellent lathe on your hands. You did an excellent job of diagnosing the issues the machine had, that electric motor looks as if it set with water in it for a period of time, another possibility is that it set in a very humid area and condensation from temp changes over the years built up the corrosion, nice job of salvaging the motor. Thanks for tag along video sir, really enjoyed watching the lathe salvage.
I Agree! All that white crap looks like Aluminum corrosion - and Oil does NOT make aluminum corrode - WATER DOES. If the lathe had been stored anywhere humid - water could have built up in that sealed motor and done all that damage.
@@normmcrae1140 My thought is that it was dried coolant. Coolant seeping in through the jacket of the power wires and being evaporated away by the motor's heat.
@@robertbackhaus8911 Definitely a good possibility! He DID say that the coolant was water-based.
You should never touch a moving gear or chuck! You might need those fingers at a later day. Love the video! 😊
Glad to hear that motor running so smoothly!
I was watching as you shifted through the gears with the top cover off. the oil goes down the gap between the electric box and the case and i'm guessing then through the mounting holes over the years. Its now the end of the vid. What a beautiful old lathe. Cinncinatti is a good known brand too. Its good to see it working. One of my friends bought himself a "Denbigh" Colum drill press. Its an antique. Its all flat belt drive and fantastic castings, a thing of beauty. It even came with a box of No 3 Morse taper drill bits up to 2 inch and a regular 5/8 drill chuck. It hasnt even got a drill hole in the table. It was built in the days when you didn't have safety regulations regarding exposed belts and the operator was expected to know not to get himself in-between a belt and pulley. Ill see if i can find you a photo.
P.S. If you have the room to clear the cross slide I would put a valve on your drain with a hose barb. A section of hose can then be used to control the flow wherever you want it for a neat drain process.
Im not really into spanners, engines and metalwork but your videos are fascinating, well done for the excellent content.
The second sump may be a spot for heavies to settle. I'd leave it as you have it. Great job Matt.
Matt, all that tooling especially that collet Chuck system, even the 4 jaw scroll Chuck are so useful and valuable, great to see you getting to the machine tools. Cincinnati is sensational.
He really didn't understand the collet chuck. They don't squeeze "lightly" they squeeze evenly and concentrically. Perfect for chucking round stock. I think he will find that it's perfect for small repetitive jobs and will become one of his favorite chucks.
And that set is expensive!I´ve tried to find one for my lathe,but it´s far out of mu budget.@@davevillaire2990
My hobby is restoring old antique and vintage machine tools. I suggest you separate the 4 jaw self-centering chuck from its back plate and sell them separately. My Clausing 5913 has a L-00 spindle, and I would love to find a L-00 back plate so I could mount a 4-jaw adjustable chuck. thanks for making this video. Very interesting subject material to me.
Have the motor rebuilt for safety reason's. You have a great machine. I used to work for Cincinnati, the mod 17 is a very good unit
reasons, not “reason’s”.
What a Great Job of finding what was wrong with it and fixing it!!!
That is a very interesting lathe! Also props to the people that designed and built that motor! I own a 1944 14" L&S model A, this lathe looks ultra high tech in comparison... funnily enough it was incorrectly listed as a Cincinnati lathe... love it to bits.
That filter housing is also used on oil furnaces. They use a bit different element, but the same housing. BTW, that motor is what’s called a TEFC. AKA, Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled. Fairly common for industrial applications.
The project that I'm working on (restoration of a former-NATO satellite ground station for science use), the gearboxes (4 gearboxes, each weighing in at about 1500lbs!!) originally used Telus T27 hydraulic oil. That oil isn't made anymore, and the closest substitute is ISO-46W. We picked up a couple of 5gal buckets of it from the local hardware emporium, and just used the "house brand". Hopefully, it won't cause problems. One of the gearboxes is leaking a little bit--not much we can do about that at the moment.
A couple of observations if you don’t mind: firstly, that 4 jaw self centering Chuck is probably your best Chuck. It can hold round or square stock equally as efficiently and, if I’m correct, has a centering adjustment feature that allows precise adjustment. Secondly, as you mentioned a rusty deposit in the electrical panel, I would suspect that coolant has been making its way past the door seal and , over the years has evaporated. The types of oil used in lathes isn’t likely to cause rusting, whereas coolant is usually mixed with water which, if left in a closed space, will cause severe rusting.
ARE YOU JOKING? The three jaw chuck is clearly better. I bet you use the metric system. 🙄
@@GardenGuy1943 Faceplate or bust, you 3-jaw using commie. 😠
@@GardenGuy1943 if you think stating that someone uses metric is a bad think, it’s just dumb metric is better by far and I grew up learning imperial
@@aslofiasitcanget2945 I had a stroke reading your comment.
@@GardenGuy1943 it’s not hard to read, maybe it’s time for the nursing home🤷♂️
For future reference, a tool that works great for rust removal on the stator and armature is a "pummie" a small stick of pumice.
I wonder if the white gunk is asbestos? I’d be SUPER careful with that stuff. She’ll be a real sweetheart when you get her running. Super premium machine!
When he said it was an aluminum box, I thought of electrolysis due to dissimilar metals, possibly copper and aluminum.
Love your tenacity Matt, always willing to find out what the issue is and to put it right.👍 The work that you've done on it, it's going to last another 50 years. If you want any help with lathes, make contact with Curtis from CCE over in Australia, he's a bit of a lathe expert. Couldn't believe the state of that motor, the last time I found something like that it was under a washing machine, that one though had to go to the great motor graveyard. 😂
WOW, a great video with a ton of educational content. You never cease to amaze me with your approach and diagnosis skills. Thanks for posting and take care!
Please consider adding a valve before the added drain plug as you can then crack the valve slightly to check for sludge and water
I always enjoy your videos. The projects you tackle are amazing. I was never any good at mechanic work. Keep them coming.
You sure that lathe wasn't in a flood sometime in its life? That sure looks like the remains of flood water in that motor. That would make sense of the damage in the bottom of the electrical enclosure, too. And also the water down in the base of the lathe, too. I don't believe your lathe was ever setup for coolant. It just has the factory provision for adding it as an option, which back then that was an option. I did not see any bracket hanging off the carriage for a coolant line either. My dad used to make repairs on these old lathes back in time, call them "tray top" lathes. Sadly Dad is no longer with us. BTW- If you don't have a steady rest for this lathe, I have one here I believe will fit yours. It is off of this brand of lathe. If interested let me know. All that hydraulic shifting mechanism is a nightmare to deal with I recall dad talking about it. There's metering devices and such that are probably clogged up that are probably preventing it to shift into some of the speeds. That will be a nice sweet lathe when you get done there. Thanks for sharing Ken.
I honestly don't know about it being in a flood... with as long as the shop I got it from was in business, it's VERY possible... Now, there wasn't hardly a SPEC of rust on the machine outside the corrosion in the motor... Who knows! I do agree it never had coolant from the factory... there would have been a button on the front panel that is not there on my lathe. Now it COULD have had an after market unit, but I don't see any evidence of that... I may add a simple coolant pump / setup since this machine has a perfect chip pan that drains into a oil tank on the bottom of the lathe. I have heard them called tray tops, and your dad is correct, pretty much everyone that I've spoken to about working on these lathes has said they CAN be a nightmare to get the hydraulics to work properly, so I think I lucked out on that one! If you're serious about the steady rest, I am interested! Can you send me some into and maybe a couple pics to salvageworkshop@gmail.com ? As always, thanks for watching, I truly appreciate the support! Lots more to come!
That was my guess too. Oil floating on the water would explain how oil got into the lower half of the electrical box - and why the motor looks like it had been dunked in water.
As others have already mentioned here, there are at least two different kinds of lubricant used on lathes, milling machine's, facers, and line boring machines - if you dont count the different varieties of greases for screw drive threads of course, there is Lubricant oil which is like the oil used in the differential of your car and is water insoluble, and there is Cutting oil which IS water soluble and is used to keep the cutting edges cooled to both prevent friction hardening of the work peice and the cutting tool from chattering or blunting as a consequence, all of which being highly undesirable in a finely tolerenced work piece, by the looks of the insides of your electrical panel it was soluble oil that was penetrating the box as seen in the way it flecked the enamel paint off the inside of the box....the water element in the cutting lubricant doing that obviously... I would also speculate some balloon forgot to turn the coolant tube off at sometime in the distant past and allowed it to pour all over the cabinet and run down onto the motor directly below it was what caused all that aluminium corrosion to build up and the bearings to rust, gear oil being incapable of doing anything like it, what ever you DONT mix or confuse the two types, as here or there is likely to be big consequences. If I were you I would trace through and draw a schematic diagram, of where BOTH types of lubricants should live within the machine and where they are channelled, filtered,stored etc. lube oil obviously needing to be stored in a none accidently accessable area, whereas water diluted cutting oil which also carries away swarfe should be in an open system. and sumped at the base of the machine. well done on the overhaul by the way, a job very competantly done.
*"there is Lubricant oil which is like the oil used in the differential of your car and IS NOT water insoluble,"*
@@marcosmota1094 Was that meant to be a correction of something I said or a reinforcement of same ?? you appear to use quotation marks indicating it was a direct quote, which it obviously wasnt, as I am perfectly aware of the different hygroscopic properties of, and the uses for, water miscible and non miscible lubricants .I have yet to hear of one single example of an extreme pressure oil that is miscible to water being used as a pure lubricant or for that matter its point, perhaps I'm wrong. if so please enlighten this poor engineer of nearly fifty years of experience. the only products I can think of that DO encapsulate water are engine oils which deliberately use polymer modifiers to turn any water in them into the white scummy residue you find inside a rocker cover, but that is deliberate encapsulation for the purposes of removing the water from the lubricant.
I think that you left out a word in the first part of your sentence...soluble v. *not* soluble lubricants. Other readers might be equally confused (despite your upvotes)@@usernamesreprise4068
Thanks for taking us on this journey!
Hi, always look forward to watching your longer mechanical and engineering videos. Keep up the good work.
Great lathe in superb shape, and awesome fix 👍. Congrats on both of those machines.
The motor is a three phase squirrel cage motor (so called because of the construction of the conductors in the rotor). The order of connection of the three phase wires does matter. If you swap any two of the wires the motor will turn in the opposite direction.
Also: The configuration of the three (or multiple of three) separate motor (stator) windings matters even more: The Star or Triangle configuration variate the effective resistance, power consumption, the string voltage across the motor winding and other parameters. If wrong, you operate the motor out of spec, which in the worst case will destroy it. See Wikipedia for a deeper discussion on the topic and for hints where to find further specialist literature. The explanation behind the direction change of the rotating magnetic field is the following: Due to the time offset of the three alternating currents, three-phase alternating current offers the possibility of generating a rotating field through the circular arrangement of coils. In the simplest case, six coils are arranged in a circle and the opposing coils are connected together to form a pair of poles, which forms the two poles of an electromagnet. Swapping any two external conductors of the three-phase alternating current causes the direction of rotation to be reversed. The phases are each shifted by 120°. This follows by the vector-math behind the rotating field, the physical and electromagnetic reality and if you think about it even logically.
Hell of a long video, but I can't say enough about your talent, persistence, video editing, quality of the video, I just can't say enough ! I'm jealous !!! Simply wonderful !
Hay mate great lathe . I used to work with a lathe if you needed to use a different hold on the face of the lathe you needed to screw out the jaws of the chuck and turn them around and rethread them back in the opposite direction giving you a different face on your Lathe . Hope this helped.
Great job so far ,but your extension pipe for the drain needs to be braced ,as you have seen already it will turn when you remove the drain plug it will also turn from vibration , also the electrical box on the motor needs a gasket it had one originally use thin cork also use something on the screws to keep them from corroding ( happens when dissimilar metal come in contact )
I really like what you do, I also like the fact that you are teaching your brothers and us about these machines
Was working with a hydraulic tech with a lot of experience. He placed a small powerful magnet near the sump intake that grabs particles from going through the system. I guess you would have to periodically pull the magnet out and clean off the particles. He ordered the magi nets from Grainger, but you could find them many places…
Before I even start watching, Hope you are not going to take a hammer to this machine again.
Be sure to make a new gasket for the electric motor's wiring junction box to keep liquids out.
Good job thanks for sharing your tenacity and thoroughness.
An enjoyable video. I like the way you think through the problems and tackle everything yourself with minimal help.
I think you also solved how oil was getting into the back panel. Is it possible that the lack of a gasket allowed oil to seep between the gearbox and the back panel and then seep in via the bolt holes?
Exactly what I was thinking!
Matt, that Cocaine powder is most likely from electrolysis. It is form of corrosion that takes place with the presence of dissimilar metals like copper and aluminum. The insulation breaks in the copper caused this type of corrosion with the aluminum cover and other aluminum components. It is close to what happens in your car battery. Without ripping the entire box apart clean the wires best you can, maybe using alcohol. After letting the wires dry properly, 3M makes a liquid insulation fluid (brush in can) you can apply the liquid to all the wires and they will be adequately insulated. We had an old stand mixer from the 40's and it had cloth wires, this liquid did the trick. You have to make sure you clean all the white corrosion off everything first though. It will also help to use a penetrox compound around the aluminum, it will prevent that corrosion from taking place again.
Any chance of there being Abestos there as well?
maybe in certain cases, but not in this case, it is corrosion from dissimilar metal existing in the same enclosure. Mixing aluminum and copper without using an inhibitor solution on the aluminum could have prevented that. It also has to do with the age of the machine and what condition the machine shop was in when Matt came for the machine. This is clearly a corrosion issue though. 34 Years as an Electrician I saw plenty of motor heads like that on old machines. Not really as bad as what Matt had to deal with though. Also you would pray for Matt in that case that it was not asbestos due to it is the most dangerous when it is dry and airborne. The stuff he was cleaning was bad but not to the point as being as deadly as asbestos. It is basically the sort of corrosion you see under the hood of your typical car around your battery terminals. The best way to clean it off and neutralize that is some baking soda.
@@45Galoot That wasn't corrosion. The aluminium is eaten away when there is that much.. and it was smooth and undamaged. What that grey stuff is is vermiculite.. Nasty asbestos relative added to anything electrical and industrial in the 80's because of fire insurance etc.. It's a really big hazard when dry.. luckily it was rather damp.
another very good film. I admire the way that you deal with each challenge as it appears. You make everything look so easy. Very well done. I like your films, they are ispirational.
Love it. Thankful to see it refurbished and running.
Huge props to you and your brothers for getting that thing running again. Such an impressive bit of engineering in that gearbox. Be careful with the gear meshing on the backgears; sounds like you are trying to mesh them tight but there usually needs to be a calculated amount of backlash or you are going to have a lot of premature gear wear. Have to admit there was a lot of puckering going on every time you stuck your ear to those backgears and watched your lovely beard get ever closer to those belts...
Hahahahaha you read my mind mate, i was cringing too, also when he was machining that tool and was getting closer to check the finish and his beard was really close to the chuck. That's the type of mistake you will only ever make once! :) Got to admit though, when your in the heat of a project, its so easy to forget things like that. Id say 90% of my mishaps have been when ive been in the zone and not paying as much attention to my surroundings as i should have been. But yeah i would defo either tie that beard up, or use some sort of cover on it, can you imagine the damage if it was to get caught up! wow! :(
Good thing that aluminum oxide doesn't conduct electricity!
I could show you a photo of my thumb after it went through the gears on an old 12" craftsman lathe. I was trying to wipe off excess lube and using a folded up paper towel. Gears grabbed it and sucked it into the gears an before i could let go my thumb went through. Bad deal, should have known better. - Did not stop to consider that my thumb could be drawn in before i could let go. My thumb is fine now but it took a long time to heal and the end looked like ground up hamburger. Doctor said oh don't worry lol, that will heal up just fine... and it did. - Was so torn up he could not even stitch it. After I seen it I really thought the last 1/2" of my thumb was going to have to be removed. it was opened the same way the end of a grape would be of you sat the grape on a cutting board and whacked it hard, the end will shred and pop open with pieces hanging every which way. thumbnail torn off and blood spurting. - Yes I am being kinda graphic to drive home to everyone who reads this... don't get close to running lathe gears. They munch human flesh like a meat grinder munches meat and puts out hamburger. because I was smart, happened to me.
@@robert5 I'm in a CNC Operator certificate program right now... they push the safety thing all the time... they need to have a class of graphic pictures and stories, case studies if you will, on injuries and fatalities in the shops... I'm a 55 year old helicopter instructor/maintenance test pilot, back in school, and think back to driver's ed when I was in high school. They showed the graphic stuff to scare us straight. These machines don't care one bit what gets in their way; they'll just munch it up. Glad you recovered from that...
@@robert5 Absolutely correct - human flesh and bone is no match for steel. Or most metals for that matter! While I have all my digits, I used to work for an engineering firm where one of the guys which operated the sheet lasers had some mangled fingers with one half of one missing. He foolishly had stuck his hand into a small punch press of some kind in an attempt to pull out some pieces of metal and down it went, mangling his fingers. He could still use that hand but his thumb and two fingers were permanently disfigured aside from the one that was half missing. The doctors had to amputate the missing half. The others didn't have to be cut off but the joints were crushed thus the disfigurement. He had partial use which was good but it did hinder him to a certain degree. He was a living, breathing example of why you never put any body parts into a machine like he did... and is why they teach you to power off plus engage in the lock out/tag out process. The irony was that he had the ability to grab onto and use some super long needle-nose pliers in an attempt to fish out the metal but for some reason he didn't use them. He was in agreement that it could have been worse but he had nobody to blame but himself. The moral of the story is to keep your wits about you... make sure you know what you're doing and follow the path of true safety when working on any machinery. Best wishes! - Max Giganteum
Great save on the motor and gear train! Looking forward to you making parts!
Now that is some skilled forklift work
Nice machine! Don't forget to grease that large gear - they don't like to run dry, even with the correct meshing. Ideally you'd have zero clearance between the gears but in order to ensure there is no radial preload, it's normal to have a small clearance. It'll sound a lot smoother and last longer.
Thank you for treating this beautiful beast with the respect it deserves. Such a beautiful mechanical marvel.
LOVE watching you save these old incredible machines your knowledge always amaze.. Thanks for the great vidio.
I've seen electrical box's like that before. It is condensate from being warm from the machine on one side and cooler on the other. We would install a trap as a filter in the bottom of the cabinet to relieve the seal around the door to stop this.
By the way, atf is is probably a better fluid for lathe head flushing, it seems like the better choice and I've seen many others use it, but not sure how much difference there would be between it and diesel. But for this lathe the oil viscosity is important to the functioning of the lathe because the viscosity is related to the system pressure parameters. But I would definitely change that oil filter head out to a modern spin on filter type, cause finding the filter element for the existing one will probably be impossible. PS do not put a paper filter in the existing element housing, you will probably regret that. Change the filter head to a modern spin on hydraulic filter, should not be to much hassle or money.
That filter housing looked to be a standard oil heater filter housing. I have one on my heating system, but I am not sure of the filter type as I let my furnace guy change the filter.
I have the same lathe. Different size, but you actually showed me how I’ve been changing the speeds incorrectly. I stop, then roll through the gears. I’m subscribing, great content! Ping us when you add you add the DRO!
Incredible work and a great project 👏 more like it please 🙏
Awesome vid. Please share more of these. Good work. I love troubleshooting especially when you find the issues. Thanks
I'm certainly impressed, this machine had it's share of issues, I'm sure you've heard of watch Wes work, if you have trouble dialing it in you might consider contacting Wes if he doesn't know the answer he'll know where to find it, nice job and a great save
Fantastic job! I thought for sure that motor was done for! 😁👍 I love to see old tools and machinery get out of retirement and back to work! Just because something (or someone) is old does it mean it's useless and not worth the time and effort any more! I often say that if a tool was good enough for my grandpa to use, it's good enough for me! 😛 Keep up the fantastic work, can't wait to see what you got for us in the future! 🙂
My guess is when this lathe was left abandoned in the derelict workshop it was under a leaking roof ! Hence water in the motor & the electrical panel 👍
That lathe was happy to continue working instead of becoming scrap. Salvage of machinery can be a noble art. Owen Wagner
That white powder is OIL that got aged and dried. And the material is non conductive. That is why the motor ran but poorly. The oil seemed to have gotten through your cable sheathing from where it was connected into the control box. As the oil dries, it becomes hydroscopic and sucks in humidity. Some more years of stting would have damaged the motor casing and the winding cores. It looks like the oil leak in , might have happened as you mentioned because of a missing head gasket. Nobody had mechanical sympathy for that old machine for some time! I would recommend you to change the sheathing on the motor cable when you can afford it, given it may have the dried oil powder still in it and the insulation may be crumbling. Love from India!
The windings are enameled wire coated in epoxy, they'd be fine. And I highly doubt the oil made it through the sheathing all that way. It just wouldn't work that way. I'd bet if he cut that cable anywhere between the box and the motor, the wires would be perfectly fine. The only way they wouldn't is if they got cooked, which would have been a greater danger for damage to the motor anyways.
Unless you're talking about *CONDUIT* which is a different story than sheathing.
Awesome that you found the roll pin and key problem by poking around and feeling. Nice gasket. Thumbs up on the electric motor. How about very carefully brushing on a bit of grey paint?
I think I will never own or work on a machine like that, but it's great watching you doing it! 👍👍👍
Always good to see an old lathe get some love.
I wonder if it would be worth dipping the motor windings in epoxy resin to ensure it stays together enough to keep from shorting out something. I'm guessing the white junk might've been a combination of whatever resin it was originally coated in and the wire sheathing.
That powder in the motor was evidence of water in motor leading to corrosion of the aluminium. I'm astonished that the motor hadn't shorted out.
Wouldn't it also be useful to put a valve at the drain (and plug for backup) so you can close it if needed. Also I assume electric box is water damage, water leaked down the conduit to the motor.
I have a Cincinnati 13” hydra-shift lathe. Got an awesome deal on it. Needs some minor attention. It was nice to see your video on the problems you worked through and to see inside the beast. I use to run a 17” Cincinnati years ago. I really liked running it. Nice machine.
This was one of the better videos I have seen on youtube. It was very interesting and gratifying to see a bulletproof vintage machine brought back to life and saved from a smelter in china.
Remove the rotor and place a drop light side the stator. Cover it with a tarp and leave it on all night. It will dry the windings.
My thoughts about your oil problem is that some gomer spilt oil over the unit. I saw that happen at my dads company when I was a kid. The maintenance worker spilt the oil and didn’t tell anybody. The power box was very close to the wall and the oil sat and soaked it’s way into the box.
Just goes to a show you what some time, a lot of patience, ingenuity and know-how can accomplish anything! Great work! Great video, thanks.
Excellent video. Happy to see your family involved.
Great work, I would hate that grinding noise at high speed on the back. I would take a better look at that. But it's a great machine! Love your videos and explaining ❤
I was thinking that noise might be less when he engages the feed box, but getting two different gears to mesh perfectly with what I think is called a bull gear is probably pretty hard. Probably the reason for the bushing instead of an axial roller bearing is because there is multiple gears running on that bull gear and eliminating backlash in that gear set would be real hard, especially with the loads the gearbox can generate under a heavy cut on hard material. Those kind of loads on that type of gear set would probably end an axial bearings life pretty quickly
Agreed. Bull gears like back gears are LOUD. i think its fine!