Unlocking the True Potential of Webcams
Razer's new Kiyo Pro Ultra officially has the biggest image sensor of any webcam I've ever seen. But does that really make it "DSLR Quality?"
Buy here - www.razer.com/streaming-camer...
180 degree rule - www.filmriot.com/blog/the-180...
Watch my other Webcam reviews: • Webcam Reviews & Compa...
Make your own webcam LUTs: • How to make your webca...
Canon M200 vs Sony A5100 for webcam alternatives • Is this almost-perfect...
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00:00 Coming up in the video...
00:10 I was WRONG!
00:30 Ordered day 1!
00:50 Price & Specs
02:02 Kiyo Pro Ultra vs Elgato Facecam Pro vs Insta360 Link vs Sony A7c
04:35 Focusing Tests
05:28 HDR test - no lights!
06:23 Software issues?
08:18 Webcam sensor issues
09:05 BIG missing features
09:55 A beacon of hope within Razer
10:35 Small missing feature
11:32 Thoughts on Image Quality
11:55 PRACTICAL advantages to shallow depth of field
12:35 Competition & Market Context
13:48 How I will be using this Webcam
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Hi there, product developer here. Thanks for taking the time to not only review the product but buy it with your own hard earned cash to review it early. Hope the PR team can get you another unit for potential dual camera setups. Just some updates/points from your review. 1. Definitely agree regarding the colors, we went very conservative with the color balancing and didn't want to over saturate the image (lesson learnt from the kiyo pro tuning). I will see if the team can make tint available for tuning in Synapse via a future firmware update. 2. Regarding the Synapse control for resolutions - We only list the resolutions that are applicable to MJPEG adjustment - the processing tab is solely designed to adjust the amount of compression that the encoder on the camera does so that if people have machines that face latency issues they can adjust the compression to reduce latency and focus more on performance. NV12 is not listed in Synapse for the processing tab as there is no compression value to adjust. 3. We have another firmware and software update coming out at the end of January that will add presets for zoom values as well as improve performance in Synapse and auto focus in certain lighting tests we found post launch. We will continue to update Synapse and the firmware of the device moving forward based on feedback. 4. Will organize an internal review of your video so all the teams, eletronic engineering/mechanical engineering/firmware/software/image tuning can all take points for future products. 5. Longer term I am working with the team to adjust our camera architechture within Synapse so that users can adjust settings without the preview needing to be enabled. This is a sticking point but requires a lot of work internally - I can't give a date but know its on the roadmap for a future Synapse update. 6. Somewhat related we are working on an update for the original Kiyo Pro that will address some issues with color balancing/default values and will look to release it in Q2 of this year.
This is rad, thank you
Wowzers Batman!!
Why is it that webcams only give you temperature controls?
would love to use this on a Mac
@@seethruhead7119 You can use it on a Mac but to have access to the all the configuration software it needs to be done on Synapse (No MacOS support unfortunately) :(
The webcam industry is starting to heat up. I personally prefer a webcam over the alternatives because of the simplicity and how compact it is.
starting teh heat up? what? its been more or less stagnant since its inception,, we had some stuff from logitech and then Elgato(corsair) joined in but for the most part is pretty meh, have you seen that lastest logitech offering? glorious.....1080p.....and its a brand new webcam as well.
@@Decenium The C920 was like the last webcam that gave decent quality, everything afterwards was kind of the same. Only now the Insta360 link and this Kiyo Pro Ultra seem to show some improvements.
The problem for the webcam industry is up to which price tag people are ready to pay for a “webcam”. It seemed that in the past, most people where happy with a C920 for $50, the air quickly getting thin when approaching $100. Manufacturing costs then have to hover between 15-25 bucks, the rest being for marketing, shipping and supply chain margins. So this 4K cams are risky business, when you invest in R&D to develop a higher end camera with a price point where people are considering switching to another level of camera gear with capture devices/cards altogether.
@Decenium well thing is it's a Webcam. Do you really need more than 1080p? If your livestreaming most likely your not streaming higher than 1080p and if it's for video calling a friend or whatever do you really need 1440p or 4k?
@@Decenium 1080p is not bad. Even cinema cameras are used at 1080p and 2K (depends on the workflow and budget). What matters the most is the sensor wich is pretty bad in webcam industry.
I love the insta360. I use it as my 2nd livestream camera, but mostly for the little box when gaming. I love the gimbal and facial tracking to be able to keep my head in that small box when I start moving around. Love it for that feature alone!!!
So happy to see webcams are finally catching up. Thanks for the info as always EposVox.
I stream board games, and as such, I have a LOT of cameras in my setup. I tried a mirrorless camera for the "hero" top-down shot of the table for a little bit, but found a cheap PTZ USB-compatible camera was way better bang-for-buck. And the AVerMedia 513s I'm using for facecams and flavor angles are fantastic for their simplicity, ease of use, and the quality they provide at such a great price. So I'm firmly in the webcam camp and I really appreciate you continuing to cover the advancements in that space
Thanks for such a thorough review... I feel like webcams are all over the place in terms of features and quality these days and it's really hard to make a purchasing decision based on specs alone, this was really helpful.
Happy to see some big advancement in the web cam market lately. It's been kinda stagnant with no big developments. Kinda cool to see.
This is an extremely informative video - which is par for the course for EposVox! Ever since you mentioned that you were going to review this camera I've been excitedly waiting for this video to come out and you delivered some informational gold!
Glad it was helpful!
I've been using the original Kiyo Pro for the past couple of years and aside from the slight fisheye'ing at the widest angle and Synapse, I've been pretty happy with it. I've been looking at the Facecam Pro for the 4K 60FPS.
Thank you. Simply time and again you put forth gobs of effort to give good information to the community. It's appreciated. Thank you
I am genuinely impressed. Webcams have indeed come a long way from the slideshow-like frame rate, "count the pixels" potatocam days of yore. Even in 2022, when supposedly people could have learned how to do video at least a little bit better, I still witnessed all too many online sessions with shitty camera angles, crappy lighting and pixely, washed out images. If only more people outside the streaming community knew or cared about the possibilities... It is not rocket science, really. During the pandemic I have used one of my Sony mirrorless cameras together with an Elgato capture card (and later a Blackmagic Atem) to do all of my meetings, speaking engagements and 1-on-1 sessions and everybody was impressed with the video quality. The setup only takes a little bit of dialing in. You can do so much to improve video beside buying a new camera. Lighting can do wonders, so can sound. Usable and decent sounding condenser mics can be had for as cheap as 50 bucks.
Finally was waiting for your review! Mine comes next week :), excited!
Hope you enjoy it!
Pretty cool! Thank you for this, as always.
As always, fantastic work! Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
Great video! At the end you mention just saving up for a camera which I have been wanting to get the M200 but just don't wanna spend $100 on Elgato Cam Link what are some capture card alternatives I could go with once I get it?
Appreciate these videos @EposVox - are you aware of any reasonable workflow where one can record a webcam via OBS in a format that supports true transparency (alpha)? I have some hosting requirements and while I can place a chromakey compliant image layer behind the hosting segments to pull later via Premiere, that introduces so much more edge noise and other quality degradation that it is off putting. I believe this is an OBS record file format support issue more than a camera issue but if anyone else had thought about it I thought it might be you. Thanks!
Fantastic review, thanks!!!
Gotta say they ALL look good here. Crazy how good the webcams are getting.
crazy how expensive they are getting
I have the previous version of the Razer Kiyo Pro, "only" 1080p, and I am astonished at how sharp the image is. It will immediately betray me if I don't shave every morning! This makes it a nuisance in that regard, ha, ha! But the low light performance is equally amazing. If you can lay your hands on one at a decent price, don't hesitate. 😉👌
🤣 That's why sometimes I love shitty webcams. Not shaving, not moisturizing, not even brushing my long hair, it still look pretty good. I just look like a total hobo with a high quality webcam/camera.
I can't believe there aren't more reviews that I can find on KZhead of the Razer Kiyo Pro Ultra yet. Think this is the 3rd or 4th time watching this one just because this is pretty much the only long form review.
Just bought mine refurbished with warranty for $209 to replace my current Kiyo Pro. So I have a question, I own a Evga Xr1 Pro capture card for my ps4 pro, can I utilize it into my streaming setup either with my standalone streaming rig (12700k/XTXH XFX 6900xt/32gb ddr5) or if I wanted to dual system stream would I be able to use my soon to be put on the market/sold 13500/3060ti/32gb ddr4 System I have on hand?
Thanks for this video! I picked up the previous Kiyo Pro when it dropped to $100, may do the same with this drops in price.
Bought a Nexigo Iris recently and I'm very happy with it. Settings that don't get erased when you restart your computer are priceless and the sensor was the largest one on a webcam at the time.
Iris is pretty great too!
Thanks for the video! I'll probably get it soon myself :)
im really interested in that hdr mode, too bad you didnt stress test/compare low light
really helpful video. im in need of a new camera.
Just wondering since it’s been a few months, have there been some improvements with Razer Synapse? I’m primarily concerned about settings not properly saving or carrying over to OBS. Thanks!
interesting video, you seem to have alot of different settings including iso and noise reduction and so on in the synapse, that does not show in in synapse on the Kiyo Pro sadly :) ime using the kiyo pro right now and sometimes experience noise and grains in darker arears. wich it seems you have none of , even though you have it alot darker but that might be do to those extra settings that i sadly do not have. i testet today and seems i get even more noise if i turn on HDR in synapse so i turned that off. do you think the kiyo pro ultra is worth the money / upgrade, if i already got the kiyo pro ?
I don’t need it…but I want it. Thanks Addie, bangin video ❤
Would you say it's similar in latency to a DSLR with a capture card, for example, if you wanted to sync an Audio Interface to replace the Webcam audio?
Lets say if i want to use this webcam to show my setup (my pc screen) and equipments..is that possible to focus the pc screen only? So while streaming my viewers can see what i’m doing on my pc screen
Actually just picked up an a5100 for a friend for $200. Pairing it with the 16-50 3.5-5.6 ($59 on mpb) and a cheapy $15 capture card and dummy battery makes for super good value. My usual go to is the sony a5000 with a little software tweak to make them output clean 1080p HDMI and can get the full lens+capture card+dummy battery setup with those in the $250-$300 range. The sony 16mm f2.8 lens are all over eBay for $80-$100, great value too. Don't have to go toooo crazy with money to get a decent mirrorless setup, that's for sure. But dang...this webcam is certainly impressive. "Finally" comes to mind. I hope this helps kickstart a trend of higher quality bigger sensor webcams. Competition in this segment would be welcomed. $300 for a webcam is still a tall order.
Well, as shown most a5100 combos are not that cheap lol
@@EposVox I agree. Most everywhere I look, I see them for $300-$400 or more body only. I happened to be looking on OfferUp and saw one for $250. Offered $200 and he accepted. I get that some people may not want to deal hunt and that's fine....more for us that do hunt I guess lol. But it's worth the effort.
Love to see a comparison video with Logitech 4k brio as the spec seems to be similar,. Maximum resolution and frame rate: 1080p, 60 FPS and 4K, 30 FPS. (USB 3.0 required. 1080p, 30 FPS is max with 2.0 connection.) Detachable USB 3.0 Type-C to Type-A cable included. 85 inches in length. Field of view: adjustable 90 degrees, 78 degrees, 65 degrees. 2 built in microphones.
Have you tried the Obsbot Tiny 2?
One advantage I can see with this webcam, over my Sony RX 100V, is that it won't overheat after 5 minutes in 4K mode. I have to decide if i want to buy a camera with better thermals, or a webcam like this, since I suck at photography anyway! This video is helpful as always. Oh, and if anyone sees my comment, make sure to thumbs up this video at the top area so more of these videos are made. Thank you!
I recently bought a Kiyo X cam because I got a great deal on it, but now I want to add a Pro Ultra. Sheeeshh. Thanks EposVox for all that you do!
I have the original Kiyo Pro and had been waiting to justify a mirrorless for an upgrade but I think I'll get me one of these.
Would you recommend the razer or the avermedia 515
Is vendor specific software necessary or can the settings be adjusted with onboard settings (Win/Mac)?
I always look forward to your webcam reviews. Great, that you got that one so quickly. I was really sceptical of Razer. Don't believe much of their marketing anymore. Its great to know, that they didn't blunder.
Got a few comments here (and questions). First I'd like to mention, that some of the "full cameras" also have their issues. I got the Sony ZV1, which I bought for like 600€ which got a whole bunch of issues: 4k is cropped in, Field of view is bad, Blacks/Grain are terrible and that is with a very low F (I got several lights set up, If I used monitor lights only I would need to use an ISO of like 1000-2000), if you set F higher it becomes even worse. In addition if you use 4k on hdmi you get: Huge picture delay (delay in OBS for sound is therefore mandatory), also hdmi 4k is 24p only (30p only works without hdmi), facetracking not available (only on 1080p). Furthermore the camera doesnt save the manually set focus upon switching it off and on, meaning either you have to set it EVERY TIME, or you just set it to autofocus and accept the pulsing. So it sounds to me that the Kiyo Pro Ultra pretty much has none of these issues, am I correct? Well, maybe besides of the Focus length, which I think hasn't been mentioned in this video. I'd actually like to have my background visible (which is about 70cm behind me), though it doesnt need to be 100% sharp. So while others rave about a bokeh, I actually dislike having that. I got a huge game collection in the background and I dont want to just blur it into a total mess. ^^ I am only familiar with the logitech software, which is horrible and forgets everything upon PC restart. I guess the Razer software is at least better than that? I know that synapse has its issue though. I worked in tech support and troubleshooting usually included uninstalling synapse. In the video you also showed the noise reduction active, which seems to be a cool feature, but comparisons would be nice. Also this is something which might not come across very well on youtube unless you zoom in a lot, as youtube itself "smoothes" out some grain as a compression side effect. I was already looking into buying a new camera which doesnt have the flaws I mentioned (it just needs to record 4k 30fps (hdmi!) in decent lighting, decent fov, and be able to have a static focus on PC/Cam restart), and I was already looking at cameras beyond the 1500€ price point. Sounds like this webcam might be the more sane choice (also I wouldnt feel half as bad sending it back to amazon if it sucked)
Have you had any experience with the zf1f? I picked up the zv1 because I was mostly interested in making vlogs, shorts, and diy build videos ATM. Did you run into the same issues with power while streaming with it? It's also pretty awkward to turn it on into streaming mode but I've contacted Sony CS in order to get it added to the firmware, but probably needs a few more people asking. I've heard the zv1f is better suited to streaming with it's wider FOV, and if it fixes the power issues it'd be pretty boss. I was pretty happy with the zv1 fov as a camera, but it's zoom leaves a little to be desired, but maybe that's cause I haven't played with the 4k capability just yet. But it does crop in a little just on video mode, but not sure it's necessary to be in video mode for HDMI capture. If you're still interested in using the zv1, there's an aftermarket wider angle lens.
@@HonestAuntyElle I have not been using USB Streaming as the quality is much worse. But generally, yes, power consumption is high and afaik if you stream via USB it uses more power than it gets via USB. Power consumption is generally bad. If whole USB is used for power only and use hdmi it works. Or you need to use a dummy battery. Which the ZV1 has no room for (you need to buy a cage), afaik the ZV1 new version ZV1F changed to a different location. The HDMI actually forces you into several settings. It doesnt really leave you the options of going different modes or even different framerates. Also several other settings are basically disabled once you go hdmi.
@@Kordanor thanks for the reply. Theres so much I need to learn about.
Hey brother, I record using OBS on a rig with an i7-7700K and an Nvidia RTX 3080. I record high resolution long-format gaming videos, and I am just wondering if there is anything I could do to save myself from uploading such huge files. Currently I record in MP4 with the NVENCH H.264 using CQP 17 using the Quality preset. I have attempted rendering my videos in DaVinci Resolve and converting to h.265 on rendering, but I am never satisfied with tone mapping/reduction in video quality post-rendering.
1:55 actually they fixed the autofocus on the Kiyo Pro with a firmware update. If you get one with any firmware 1.03 or newer, it has two autofocus modes. One that's pretty relaxed and then the old super aggressive focus it shipped with. One catch... Early units have locked firmware and can't be flashed, later batches are fine, but it's a bit luck of the draw whether the firmware update will stick or not.
Yeah that’s the problem, the firmware update was bricking then originally
Interesting. I like my Mokose 12MP and Q2n4k's for extra cameras, cheap and they work fine for not a lot of money... I use 4 cameras into an RGBLink mixer. There seems to be a ton of HDMI out industrial cameras available these days at lower cost.
I have a Mokose UC70 as my primary Web cam. The firmware has some warts but, once you've fiddled with it for a bit, it delivers rather nice imagery.
Interesting stuff. I bought the regular Kyio Pro middle of last year and it, unfortunately, didn't work out of the box. It had issues being detected by OBS on my Macbook Pro and when I tried to use it on my windows machine it ended up bricking.
Yikes
Even though it needed more sharpness, my favorite samples were from the Sony A7c. They felt more natural.
Hey @epos thank you for this review! I’m returning and getting a refund on my opal since they won’t work on a windows version anytime soon or even at all. What would you recommend for pc and Mac?
Ask in his Discord.
I have the kiyo pro I love everything about it but I hate that I can't control the settings in razors program while in obs or another program if they can fix this it would be a excellent camera.
ey man, love your videos, they are so helpful, this comment is kind of off topic but I'm have a problem with my mic, its a behringer c-1, for the longest time it was fine, but for a couple of weeks now it has been buzzing(guessing its a grounding issue) when I touch the mic the buzzing gets like 10x louder. I did some research and I never found anything about it and I'm wondering if you know anything that could help me? mic: Behringer c-1 XLR amp: M-Audio Audio track solo edit: I can screw the mic in differently and the buzzing gets more quiet but it doesn't eliminate it completly
Have you tried swapping XLR cables? Sounds like either a short in the xlr cable or in the interface/mic (probably mic due to mobility and age) Cable is easy cheap swap, replacing the xlr port on the mic is a little more involved
@@EposVox Thank you so much, might swap the mic for a dynamic one(XM8500) since I still live with my parents and I want to get rid of background noise, you think that's a good option? edit: I doubt its the audio interface since its only a couple months, but the mic and cable I bought used from a musician, it was in perfect condition but still might be one of those. And the buzzing also goes away when I touch the metal casing on the XLR cable so its probably that.
Great vid, very helpful! I hope RAZER listens to your gripes...I get it, we software guys can only do so much in a given time. LOTS of updates to the firmware will generate huge confidence! Hear me RAZER? Be well!
In the old days, the maximum for webcams was 640×480 with around 25 FPS and the amount of image compression was different between cameras. Wow, things are changing radically over time...
Oh to add I've seen at least one review featuring the 4k24 NV12 mode but it's also possible to do 1080p60 NV12 which would be better
When CD movies first came out (yes, I'm that old) I told the Mom & Pop video rental store clerk, who must have been around 16, that, pointing at the "Be Kind, Rewind, Or we'll charge you $2" sign, that I couldn't figure out how to rewind the CD. She looked at the sign, looked at me, and said, "I still have to charge you $2."
Have they fixed the problem with the software not changing between OBS and synapse?
how can you get 4, 4k cameras running at the same time in the same machine? I barely can make 5 run with a special PCIE card with USB 2.0 independent channels. Is there a card that can handle 4 usb 3 cameras?
The Razer Kiyo Pro Ultra and the Elgato Facecam Pro are the two cameras I keep wanting even as a Vtuber. Resolution and framerate are both key to getting good face tracking on PC and these both look amazing for that. Though no option for 4k 60 on the Kiyo makes me sad.
The 1080p60 mode (since it’s scaled down from 4K) should be more than good enough for face tracking given the clarity and background separation IMO I need to find the right software to set up and effectively do a vtubing benchmark of sorts lol
What made you choose the A7C over the ZV-E10 or even the ZV-E1? (pretty sure they were both out when this video was made) ... also i'm sure you're aware the A7C2 & A7CR now exist, will you be upgrading?
I had the A7 C long before the others existed lol
hey dude i have been watching ur videos on webcam. i was about to get the insta360 link but i am planning on not getting it because i heard people saying it freezes a lot. Thats a big no no is this true ? does insta360 overheat or freeze a lot ? i have a pretty good computer.
It freezes if you don’t have enough usb bandwidth or a loose cable. Pretty normal
The HDR mode is super cool!
Hey! Maybe you will see this and maybe you won’t. Could you perhaps do a generational QSV comparison? I’m running an 8th Gen i7 and curious about the quality when streaming via QSV compared to 13th Gen.
Epsvox can u do a review of mwin flagship capture 90 dollars and has hdr 10 4k 60 pass through but has all the bells and whistles
I haven't really kept up since I bought my Elgato Facecam, which ones has an uncompressed signal to the PC?
actual dark performance is a nice change for Webcams. now i hope to see competition on that :)
I'm still happy with elgato cause of the software saving alone. I can just boot up, open obs, stream, or go to online classes without adjusting each time. I had logitech webcams for a long time.
I'm so on the fence, if I should buy this camera (350€) or a Sony ZV1F (450€). Until now, I used my phone for overhead Lego streams and I would like to upgrade. The camera quality looks really nice, but I'm afraid of the software. So, what would anyone here say, is it better to invest 100€ more and get an vlogger camera or get the Kiyo Pro Ultra?
have anybody ever tested those best webcams with latenvyMon? what drivers latency impact that makes to system overall?
The Insta360 Link is better quality in my opinion when comparing image quality head-to-head. But to each their own!
The kiyo pro ultra has a bigger sensor, when you tune in manual settings, it's objectively better than any other webcam that exists right now.
@@bonanzabrandon6877 Personal preference. I've seen many different comparisons and on my own image quality tests, the Insta360 link beats it. No hard feelings.
Pretty impressive Webcam, i still think that SONY and now Panasonic (with the new focus system) could release a APS-C/m43 webcam only oriented body (no stills and waterproof body), specially panasonic since there are some really nice lens out there, that will also help sell m43 lens that have taken some hits with Full frame becoming the real end game, I bet sony/panasonic could sell this body around $500.
Heyho! I think you mentioned you are not that much into reviewing webcams. But I wanted to check if you got any videos on the horizon or you can tell about any upcoming releases - or you think the "Kiyo Pro Ultra" is possibly as good as it gets for the next months.
Nothing new has come out to compete with the Ultra. I definitely didn't say that first thing, though... I've been reviewing webcams on this channel for 10 years lol
@@EposVox Oh, alright, sorry, remembered it incorrectly then. Thank you!
hey epos gotta ask do all mirrorless cameras need a dummy battery for streaming and recording stuff? also probably gonna choose the insta360 out of these cameras 👍
Some newer ones like the Sony ZV-1, 1F and E10 can take USB power. Some of the bigger new ones can take USB-PD power
Glad I didn't hop on the Facecam Pro train, but despite the large sensor the Link is still so good despite being "inferior" hardware. I can only imagine what they might be able to do once they also upgrade their hardware to compete with all the new products. Also being a tech person, a gamer person, etc who has worked with, reviewed, and used Razer products for a long time. It's good to see that this is fairly priced, as usually there is "Razer" tax on most of their products.
I was wondering about the limitation of 4K raw mode to 24 fps. The IMX585 sensor will actually do 60 fps at 12-bit colour depth or 90 fps at 10-bit colour depth. Assuming 3 colour channels of 8.41 MP, this works out to 18.2 and 22.7 Gb/s (bits), respectively. The internal bus is MIPI D-PHY with up to eight lanes. MIPI is a secretive business alliance, but they recently bragged that version 3.0 doubles bandwidth to 9 Gb/s - too recently to have been used in this design, so the implication is 4.5 Gb/s times 8 lanes = 36 Gb/s D-PHY peak. That seems to allow enough headroom for the sensor to do something other than being read out at 100% duty cycle. Probably not the problem. At 36 Gb/s, the full sensor read time (12 bit depth) is about 8.5 ms. Around 7.0 ms for 10 bit depth. Then I realized that the constraint could be the USB 3.0 link. With command overhead, the theoretical data rate is around 96% of the link rate. USB 3 is horrible for nomenclature. After the release of USB 3.1, the modes were renamed. * The old (compatible) USB 3.0 mode became known as USB 3.1 Gen 1 with a 5 Gb/s link rate. * The new USB 3.1 mode became known as USB 3.1 Gen 2, doubling the link rate to 10 Gb/s. * USB 3.2 defines a new mode, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2, which doubles this again to 20 Gb/s, by using two lanes running at 10 Gb/s, using both sides of the reversible connector. * 30 fps at 12 bits requires 9.1 Gb/s. This is possible (barely) with USB 3.1 Gen 2. But the Kiyo manual clearly states USB 3.0. * 24 fps at 12 bits requires 7.2 Gb/s. This achieves headroom on a 10 Gb/s channel, if you are having technical problems hitting peak utilization. * 24 fps at 10 bits requires 6.1 Gb/s. You wouldn't do this for reasons of channel limits. * 24 fps at 8 bits requires 4.844 Gb/s. Would that fit in a 5 Gb/s channel with a 4.8 Gb/s peak data rate? Rather uncomfortably, like after turkey dinner. Maybe if you truncate the blue channel to 7 bits at the edge of the frame. So we have two possible stories. First candidate: * the manual lies, and this is really USB 3.1 with 10 Gb/s link rate * they had technical problems running the channel to peak rate * they decided to limit the frame rate to 24 fps rather than reduce the colour depth to 10 bit (which might compromise HDR) Second candidate: * the manual tells the truth, this really is USB 3.0 with a 5 Gb/s link rate * even if they achieve nearly 100% utilization of this link, they can only average a bit over 23 bits per pixel * you can cheat on the blue channel in the margins, and hardly anyone would notice * or you can cheat on the frame rate and only deliver 23.7 fps * but you're only really getting 24-bit colour, and is that really HDR? * you're so close to the limits here, I doubt you could route the USB link through a great hub, since there's USB control overhead for every extra link element 23.7 fps needs 4.78 Gb/s bandwidth, "comfortably" clearing your 4.8 Gb/s effective channel limit. My guess is that with this much design risk in the sensor, they chose conservative USB client silicon limited to 5 Gb/s, and they're doing some kind of two-step to _almost_ cam through 24 fps raw at 4K, when the USB link is working perfectly. Of course, there are tricks to implement an "almost" lossless compression mode, where only the most extreme images wouldn't be exact. This is the kind of thing that makes open source difficult: secret, undocumented _a la carte_ compression modes.
I meant to type "cram" not "cam". My fingers shaved a bit off the blue channel.
Maybe all that math is hot air, because I didn't take into account the lower level of actual photosites (sensels). But I'm not into this field enough to know if the sensor element does any of the averaging locally before readout. In any case, it's a starting point for more detailed thinking later on, if I discover anything more in the meanwhile about how this kind of system works under the hood. To read raw sensels (4 with a Bayer filter) instead of pixels (3 colour channels) you'd have to increase readout bandwidth by a factor of 4/3.
Yeah you probably were looking at 4:4:4 data, too, which the webcam is never transferring. 4K30 in NV12 (4:2:0) absolutely fits in 5gbps USB 3, and as stated a multitude of capture cards have no issue delivering this.
Well, u mistaking: HDR here is not for "HDR image quality", but for the even lighting effect.
Im looking forward for insta360 link with APS-C sensor.
That would be nuts
What's that PC test bench behind you?
I don't need this but I want it. Hoping to pick one up later in the year
It took a few years but praises to Razer
estaría gracioso que analizará la cámara web de steren de 2k
I might get this one.
Now do a 1080p webcam showdown for this year
KZheadrs and streamers have these companies stepping their game up.
Super keen to see how the DJI Osmo Pocket 3 stacks up.
This meme is so tired
@@EposVox how so? You’d mentioned comparing against mirrorless cameras (which is what brought me to your content), and I’d heard a lot of hype of the Oslo, so was keen to hear your thoughts.
What if there is just a Full sensor to usb converter and let our PC do the processing via the software. that would be a cheaper way :D
Just for the fun of it, and to put thing into perspective, i did the math. This webcam vs APS-c vs Full frame: sensor size: 1/1,2" vs APS-C vs FF Aperture: f1/1.7 vs f1/3.7 vs f1/5.5 Focal Length: 8.5mm vs 18.4mm vs27.6mm Resolution: 8.3mp vs 38.8mp vs 87.4mp resolution derived in terms of equivalent pixel density. So, translated into plain English, an equivalent Full Frame setup, would let in 10 times the light, and provide 10 times the resolution, however, forgetting for the moment, that Starvis 2 is not a thing on any FF camera I know of, it would most certainly be more than 10 times the price, probably more like a factor of hundred, or more, but when it comes to APS-C, I do not believe that what would be equivalent to a factor 25 improvement, in comparison, would cost anywhere near $7,500, even if that Starvis sensor is amazing, which I really have no way of know, without proper testing. In short, this webcam may be amazing, from a certain perspective, but it is by no means a good deal.
That is the most bizarre way to go about deciding if it’s worth buying for you, but sure. You do you.
Not at all bizare, but of course done for fun, so does it really matter? In any case, as objective conclusions go, I think I did pretty well, now that I think about it, though of course not perfect, since some relevant data is missing. Personally, I don't need convincing, as I have already decided on an zv e10 some t8me ago, and I really don't care what others decide for themselves. 1X is lower than 2x, and while 2x might give 4x value, if you don't need it, 1x is still half of 2x, I get that, but fir some, it nay well be relevant. That is all.
why cant i find the facecam pro anywhere?
They sell it on their website. First Google result lol www.elgato.com/us/en/p/facecam-pro
@@EposVox mobile wouldn’t add it to the cart just tried from my computer n it works thanks!
Heck yeah. Their site was down for a couple days, been quirky since. Glad you got it!
It definitely is brighter at night. I couldn't get rid of the halos though from street lamps, cars, etc. Even with brightness all the way down. I can see stars, which made me laugh.
5:24 I don't think you got this right. The Sony STARVIS team is proud of doing HDR with a single frame, because this reduces blur. What they are doing is reading the sensor twice on a single frame, but with two different gain settings. If you use consecutive frames, even taken close together, you end up combining two images that aren't entirely the same, which can lead to motion blur.
Well the explanation of every prior camera with that feature was it halved the framerate because it was using both frames. Huh.
@@EposVox I would hazard to guess that even if we have same frame capture, that there might still be losses in frame rate due to processing. The time it takes to merge the dual exposure frame needs to be recouped if it can handle it in real time. Take a (dual) frame, process the frame (while skipping the next), display the frame. Etc. But yes, trying to merge HDR with two different frames would be a disaster in terms of quality unless you were running some seriously fast shutter speed and sensor read speeds.
Webcams are getting to the cost point where compact vlogging cameras are looking more cost effective, if only they didn't have power issues. The Sony ZV1 has (admittedly 720p) USB streaming with a little delay, but due to the sensor is amazingly good as a webcam. But has serious usability issues, as it goes flat slowly while streaming over USB, as it's not USBC with power delivery negotiation, and whilst I haven't hit it, some complaints about overheating. But many have bypassed this issue with dummy batteries and using very cheap HDMI capture, which gives better resolution. But at the end of the day, I can rip it out of my PC set it up on a tripod, shoot some KZhead, take it for stills in the park. And have a semi permanent setup without having to unmount my phone. Other big issue is that you can't start it up in webcam mode by default. But I've asked Sony support to add that to the firmware
In short, if the Sony ZV1f has solved this, cheaper, and has a wider FOV, I'd declare the Sony ZV1f as the best webcam.
Ah yes, if you’re spending $300 might as well spend… $800. No
@@EposVox was more meaning to get more utility out of it. Good cameras are falling in price, the only thing really in the way is useability issues was my point. If cost was everything, people would just use the smart phones they already have.
@@EposVox the zv1f is $500 USD at the moment.
A couple of days ago Razer tried to semi-auto install their mouse software for controlling movement and RGB lights, just only 500MB and permanently running service :D This camera costs 300 bucks, I assume it's better to find decent smartphone 150-250 dollars that can record in 4K
Smartphone has smaller sensor, will only send very compressed video to PC with fairly high latency, and isn’t designed to run for long hours streaming video. So no, for most use cases it definitely wouldn’t be “better” heh
@@EposVox First I'm not sure, we're using phones attached to rc models or motorcycles that stream and record very well for our purposes. otoh, we have the choice to use very good and cheap real photocamera to stream, like all budget Canon EOS models last 5-6 years
Where is 180 selection (to invert for turning upside down)?
In OBS, right click, transform, rotate 180 degrees
Thanks. That's what I ended up having to do.
Does the webcam already not exist anymore? Because the link to their website gives a 404.
Fixed. www.razer.com/streaming-cameras/razer-kiyo-pro-ultra
I thought he was Linus then the video played 😂 I was like wait a minute
I thought the HDR quality was very compelling
1 problem .... it is made by Razer and i don't have good experiences with Razer products. I have 4 broken mice from them and all of those mice lasted for about 1 - 2 years. And for that price, will add 100$ and buy mirrorless cam because its more versatile. Even if on this camera is saying that has "4k", the quality is in the range of smartphones aka not good. And for mirrorless cam you don't need additional software since you can do it directly on camera. For me it is very important to use as least software for streaming as possible. Currently i am using only OBS and a browser, that is it.
$100 more for camera, few hundred for a good lens that’s comparable, $20 for dummy battery, $5-15 for hdmi cable, $75-100 for worthwhile capture card Congrats that’s more than double the price
So, configuring this webcam on a non-Windows machine? Maybe a blip at the beginning if it's not possible to save us the time?
if using on a Ubuntu system to control and retain desired settings. At command prompt type= sudo apt install webcamoid.
Wonder if it's worth it to buy a webcam when I can use my old Samsung phone for a webcam
People always underestimate how much sensor size can effect image quality. Especially in sub optimal lighting conditions. Obviously good software and image processing can help a lot, but most webcams don't really have that which is why i usually recommend people to use their phone as a webcam if they have a spare one, since they typically have good software to make up for the lack in sensor size. With a webcam like this i will probably start recommending webcams some more. Though that being said , 300$ is big pill to swallow for someone who just wants to improve their image quality a little. I hope this will become the new standard for webcams in the future, even for more affordable models!
The real workhorse in this camera is the new starvis sensor. I can't wait for this to end up in dash cams
I think there is one they already use them in car reverse monitors.
Can we get better dashcams now already?
I find it very weird how Elgato is the only one that sells this camera. You can't buy it anywhere else. There are also dozens of "refurbished" ones being sold on ebay & some other refurbish sellers.
Razer also only sells theirs on their own website
I still dont get why the sensor is STILL so small, the Lumia 1020 FROM 2013 has a 1/1.5″ inch sensor
Phones are completely different tech with different development pipelines, but also that is a fair bit smaller than this lol If you’re interested in some of the differences of phone cams vs webcams, I talk about it here Why webcams SUCK kzhead.info/sun/kq-foNSfo56vqGg/bejne.html
@@EposVox thanks for the explanation
Elgato Facecam Pro uses a 1.8 by 1 inch sensor.