Captain Picard Meet Commander Sela

I agree that Sela should have been the baddie in nemesis

What a boost for that actor though, to leverage over years, and then get cast as a main villain in a major motion picture.

It's likely the producers not able to get Denise Crosby to reprise Sela in "Nemesis" hence they contacted Tom Hardy instead. I do agree Sela would've made a much better villain than someone who claimed he was Picard's clone...

@@LGranthamsHeir Can't see why she would turn down the role, it's not like her career was really going anywhere and playing a major part in a big-screen movie might have helped to rekindle it. At the very least it would have been a nice payday for her. I doubt she was ever approached.

Denise Crosby was actually interested in returning as Sela in nemesis but was never approached which is too bad since it would have been a better movie

And he was right. She begged him to let her to go. She would have ceased to exist once they finished repairing the timeline anyway. It's always shown to be her own action with the skin of evil that resulted in her death. The real question is what if Denise Crosby hadn't quit the show in the first place? It reminds me a bit of Daniel Jackson's departure and return in SG1. It's funny how fictional reality and actual reality can affect eachother.

Capt. Picard did not doom Tasha to death in either timeline. Any away mission can be dangerous, and as security chief, that was her job to protect the away team and to recover the wounded in the shuttle. As for the War timeline, She pressed Picard to go on enterprise c because she was not supposed to be there. We do not know if her presence extended the battle to the point where it became a Hero's death. But in both cases, she did what she thought was her job.

@@gibblespascack1418 Well we know she didn't die in the battle.

@@every116 Of course, but the Hero's potential death prevented the Klingon war of the current timeline. At the time, everyone on Enterprise C was thought to be dead. It was not until later that the Sela timeline became apparent and it was noted that Romulan's can take prisoners under certain circumstances. Up until that point, Romulans took no prisoners.

Obviously

Well if it makes you feel any better, Sela is one of the main villains in the game Star Trek Online. I actually played the game before I watched this episode and when I saw her I couldn’t believe it. By the way, I think I’m going to play as the Romulan Republic later on.

I played Star trek Online and she knocks that role out of the park. It was a fun story with an interesting conclusion.

Why did Tasha go evil?

I’ve always have been of the opinion that the General never had Tasha killed, it just appeared so. If he loved her so much, he prob could have faked her death and had her taken to an uninhabited planet in Romulan space to live in peace.

this suggests that A she loved her father, perhaps he loved his daughter too B life on Romulus isn,'t that bad for those of a certain station

@@mrbojangles8133 Obviously she got brainwashed by Romulan society and cultural way of life that always saw other alien lifeforms including humans as beneath them (highly xenophobic). There is no way the Romulan who spared Tasha's life saw her as his equal and most likely treated her like a slave being the devious nature they were. So yes her life was hell (most likely physically and sexually abused) and she was going to escape but not leave the one thing she actually loved (her daughter Sela) in the hands of that cruel Romulan (who obviously harden her life cause she looked like her mother and probably had a much more difficult upbringing as she had no mother or any other human around to help her deal with her human emotions but only raised as a Romulan). Romulus is a highly militaristic and totalitarian society. Which means if you are low ranking you are going to be treated like a pawn and yes if you'r station in life is higher up closer to the praetor or the senate you are doing quite well and have a pretty good life. The Romulan society is modeled after the Ancient Romans and we know the elites were highly corrupted and did whatever was in their power to stay in power.

@@jakep1979 many a dictatorship has this principle, if you occupy the upper echelons of society it comes with certain perks making it pleasant,

@@mrbojangles8133 China and Russia comes to mind. Both Putin and Jinping are billionaires and they can get away with dipping into the coffers because they are number 1 and if anybody below them suggests that's what they are doing, they will be excuted.

Tasha yar death actually strengthed the characters of worf and Geordi.

Crosby leaving the show was the best thing that ever happened to Michael Dorn.

They could have moved Worf to CTO without killing off Tasha Yar. She could have just given up the CTO position while remaining Chief of Security. Just my view.

*What happened to her?*

@@SinewRending uh, you find out Sela created the Iconian War by yeeting one of their elders (can't remember the name) as for old Tasha, you rescue her from a tear in space, some hidden asteroid prison owned by the Tholians, after that I don't remember.

This storyline is one of the most perfect examples of the butterfly effect I can think of. A throwaway comment by Guinan - telling Tasha her prime-timeline death was meaningless - leads to Tasha going back in time, Sela's birth, the destruction of Romulus, the Kelvin-timeline destruction of Vulcan, the Iconian war, the Vaadwaur rampaging across the Delta Quadrant, the destruction of the Utopia Planitia yards in ST:Picard, the Sphere Builders' 500-year temporal cold war against the Federation.... one innocent conversation destabilized the entire galaxy for centuries and hundreds of billions of people died.

@@Sirithil And then we find Tasha's grave on Pictae II, the site of an abandoned Romulan penal colony where the last survivors of the Enterprise-C died, and finally get some closure.

@@JasenJohn She injured L'Miren.

Correct. The Yar that died on Vagra II is not Sela’s mother.

@@tjames9698 It depends how you look at it. Yesterday's Enterprise wasn't set in an alternate universe per se, it was the prime timeline, but altered. When the Enterprise C went back the timeline was reset back to 'normal' and the Enterprise D crew had no memory of the events (because those events now never happened), but I think they were still meant to be the same characters, not alternate universe versions of those characters. On the other hand, if it was the 'same' Yar, that would mean she died twice, which obviously wouldn't make any sense. Resetting the timeline by sending her back should have created a paradox (if resetting the timeline meant that the events of Yesterday's Enterprise never happened, how could she have gone back?) but it apparently didn't. Maybe in the process of altering the timeline, Yar was somehow duplicated, resulting in two Yars that each had an equally valid claim to being the 'real' Yar, a bit like how Riker got duplicated in a transporter accident. These two Yars would both have been originally the same person (the one who was a child in 2044). I don't think the writers really gave a coherent explanation for how it worked.

@@paulwhite6745nah, thinking too deep into it. Alternate timeline, two distinct characters. A Star Trek staple.

Even more impressive when you take into consideration the fact that she probably did it and just about 5 years. Assuming Romulans joined the military at or around age 18 of course.

Extremely, even for someone as fanatically loyal as Sela.

Or had at least been the villain in the final film.

Sela would've been a good fit for nemesis

@@chrispeplinski7306 Instead of Shinzon ? Maybe so. 🖖

@@jacksonheathen2092 nothing against Tom hardy but Shinzon felt like a khan clone. Seeing Sela again would have been great

@@chrispeplinski7306 Yep. I can agree with that. 🖖😁

Problem is that it's still a time travel paradox or a time line problem. A new timeline was created as a result of Enterprise C entering the future and than another timeline was created when Enterprise C returned back to the past. So not everything went back to normal since a dead woman was resurrected therefore creating a new time line which is slightly different than the original time line. Luckily Sela presence in the new timeline did not change any events in a major way just made things a bit more difficult to get there. It's a shame that Sela was not an insturemantal figure in the Dominion war or even appear in Star Trek Nemesis instead or with Shinzon.

@@jakep1979 That's true. I have always subscribed to the belief that there is only one timeline at a time though, and that changing the past does change the future. Most likely the Romulans didn't do anything important during the past 24 years, and that is why we didn't see radical changes with this result. I am surprised that Tasha Yar didn't try to escape sooner, or raise he daughter with more human qualities however.

@@campbelldowler1396 She couldn't escape that's why she didn't at first. Also we have no idea how much of environment, propoganda, and Romulan genes played in Tasha Yar daughter upbringing. If we take Spock as a model for instance although he at first he resented his human side because of his difficult upbringing being different on Volcan, he learned to embrace his unique human side in his own way and he also loved his human mother. With Tasha when she died, everything human died within Sela (as she was still too young to understand things) and instead of love to the human race because of her mother she developed hatered which made her more determined to not only destroy humanity within her but to destroy humanity for good.

Plus it gives us hang on When did this happen Tasha die in Season 1 Yesterday Enterprise was the reason it made us understand it

You know she's a villain when as a small child Sela reported her own mother to their Romulan captors, resulted in Tasha's execution. Sela's statement that "any humanity I had died that day" only reinforced this.

@@LGranthamsHeir Yep. She wasn't a good girl. 🖖

Well… there is a world where maybe she didn’t get executed… I mean, Sela was 4 years old being told her mom was executed, which she obviously would believe. Wouldn’t it be an interested turn of events to find out that maybe Tasha WASN’T actually killed, but secretly imprisoned?

The laws of physics run on 2D in Star Trek 😂.

Do you know how much gas it would take to go around the tachyon grid? At these prices?!

I argee. The could have simply navigated around it (unless it completely surrounded the entire Klingon empire in some enormous sphere).

Data keeps sending her messages over subspace comms - 'haha I shagged your mother!' :D

the duras sisters and their allies needed those supplies and weapons ASAP as they were in the middle of a conflict. Going above , around, or below it would no doubt take a long time because of physics. Any significant delay in the delivery of those things would functionally result in the same thing: catastrophic defeat at the hands of Gowron and his imperial military.

However, at the time of Wolf 359, the ships they mustered were just those that they managed to have in the vicinity. Not representative of the fleet strength at all. The problem was timing. Very little timing to get more ships to the battlefield. Therefore this blockade situation and the ship numbers is less relevant.

Good point.

No. The alternate timeline was one of the best TNG episodes.

Don’t worry it will make sense when you watch Yesterday Enterprise I know it help me

Uh huh

Yep. I loved startrek. But the story writing was always the weakest link (which should always be the priority in sci-fi).

I miss the days of well written shows in general.

@@jholeify yeah Star Trek died for me in 2009 when that hack JJ got his hands on the franchise.

@@callumbush1ONE HUNDRED PERCENT.

"We are out on a trip for some space milk, and decided to stop off a Kronos for a leg of Targ for dinner."

But it never really did (& that was 30 years ago). She gets a few movie parts here & there. But still...

@@jacksonheathen2092 I was being sarcastic 😄

@@wesmantooth5908 I get it now. 😁🖖

She must have the same agent as Whhhhiiiiilllllll Whheeeeton :D

@@willc1294 And that guy who left CSI.

Good point. But the Romulans likely killed the rest of them.

It's known that Romulans keep war prisoners as slaves/captives to work. Klingons, Remans.. Maybe they did the same with Starfleet.

Prison Work Camp most likely...know one would know as in the original history the whole crew died. No one would come looking for them.

The other prisoners lives were originally spared on the condition that Tasha agreed to be the 'consort' of the Romulan officer. When Tasha tried to escape and was executed that could have been used as an excuse to kill the remaining prisoners.

Essentially the same thing. A lieutenant doesn't get to approve their own request.

@@jacksonheathen2092 He didn't initially want to approve of the Transfer, it took Guinan and Tasha talking to him to convince him, if I remember right.

Sela was only four when Tasha was executed. She would have been too young to understand.

She didn't though. She was a small child that was being taken away from her home and cried out. She didn't want her mother to die.

@@IIBloodXLustII I wonder if she later convinced herself that her mother deserved to die.

Star Trek seems to think humanity only represents the good things.

@@LordTalax That's the entire point of _Star Trek_ .

Some of the things she says sound like Sela heard them time and time again from the mouth of her Romulan father. How her mother was ungrateful, how he gave her everything, and how she tried to run away from him. I can imagine little Sela sitting at her father's feet, listening to him curse her mother.

Commander Donatra

Commander Donatra🖖🏼

In STO she commands a scimitar ship and has been modified with borg technology

I’m sure they’ll probably bring Sela back in Picard

What’s the more information

But is it canon, or just fan-fiction like the EU is from Star Wars? Hate it when fans of a series create games, comics, novels of a franchise and toss in their own unapproved concepts that people take as gospel.

@@jeffburnham6611 okay I thought it was already approved as canon.

We certainly do

@@jeffburnham6611 I would genuinely take the stories in Star Trek online as canon over the god awful dystopian edge lord fest that is Kurtzman Trek.

I'll give you that. 🖖😁 At least poor Odo didn't have any hair to lose when he was stalked by her.

@@jacksonheathen2092I must have missed that part, cant imagine her haven the hots for a shapeshifter liquid dude

@@random4969 Absolutely. Odo was stalked by Lwaxana Troi on several DS9 episodes.

@@jacksonheathen2092 kzhead.info/sun/eJ19ppqdqYimfn0/bejne.html

So that's why Captain Picard is a complete cantaloupe by the end of the series! He did have some hair at the beginning. 😁😆

"Other nonsense"?

@@snapdraygon The online game is a big sales pitch for Discovery and the Picard series. It's like two different games, with two different sets of rules at once. It's a bit of a joke.

What? This Seela plotline turns Tasha's honorable death in battle into Tasha being held captive and used. This is just as much as bad as anything in ST: Discovery. You just like this because its the Star Trek we're supposed to like. Actually this plot development was awful.

STO sucks

@@35mm21I’d argue the Star Trek were “supposed” to like is std, lower decks, Picard etc lol… unless you mean from a core fan base perspective lol

By sleeping with her ship's Commander then killing him while he's sleeping? Seems like a typical promotion move for Romulans (and for Terran Empire officers in the Mirror-verse).

Nepotism. Her father was a Romulan general.

Good point. In fact she was only 22 years old at most (since Yar went back in time 23 years earlier). But Denise Crosby was almost 34 when this episode appeared.

@@LGranthamsHeir same way Kirk became a captain after not getting into the academy

@@LGranthamsHeir The killing part sounds way more Klingon than Romulan.

It's not canon, but Sela features prominently in Star Trek Online.

@@ehstronghold kzhead.info/sun/m7qLdM1uo6KBfKs/bejne.html - Star Trek Online -- Empress Sela cutscenes

No, but there's a novel (Vulcan's Heart) that tells how Tasha got captured.

If you've seen the new trailer that's just been released, there could be hope yet!

Perhaps so. But there's really no difference. She requested a transfer.

Of course, but 4 year old Sela likely wouldn't have gotten all the details of that right,or maybe her father twisted the story to make her more bitter against humans.

​​@@patrickschulz2193Right, I think the Romulan officer knew that if he told the story correctly it would show Tasha in particular and humans in general in a positive light - going back in time to help out in a courageous battle that would be hopeless and almost assuredly result in everyone's deaths. So instead he spins it as she went back because she was ordered to and essentially sent to her death by an uncaring captain.

Yes it was. The voice is the same so it was Sela.

actors age is moot, character is 23. thats like saying "we are to believe Elrond is like a couple hundred years here??? Honestly??" because the actor is like 50+ years old. and yes that is an apt metaphor since Vulcans/Romulans are essentially space elves.

Brent Spiner must have had a contract rider that said that he was the only person who could play multiple characters that would interact with eachother!! Hence, Tasha had to be killed trying to escape! 🤣🤣🤣

Yea this isn't really much better than being killed by an ink blob. It seemed like they were trying to be a little too edgy here. Honestly, they might have just well gone the clone route like they did in Nemesis; same overall effect.

I am close enough to an exact copy of my grandmother that her brother thought a childhood photo of her was me. There are likely millions of examples of child parent doppelgängers, so that s literally the most accurate part of this arc.

That's Denise Crosby. She played Tasha Yar in the first season and in the episode "Yesterday's Enterprise." Sela is supposed to be Lt. Yar's look-alike half-Romulan daughter.