Lt. Worf Speaks With Gowron

The music also helped create tension. So well done.

Agreed, but seeing gowron without the "chancellor of the empire" curiass that he wears in later episodes is weird-looking.

Interesting how their relationship ends is DS9

I watched it countless times and keep coming back to it.

indeed i was waiting for a long time to see this clip. every time i watched it on tv they always had reruns.

Its very Shakespearean which the Klingon people fully embodied with their love of fighting and feasting.

QAPLA'!

The strategy Worf once used to save Gowron (pretending to be vulnerable and wait to strike until the enemy ship would lower their shields to board them) was the same strategy Worf used to kill Gowron (pretending to go down and wait to strike when Gowron raised his Bat'leth to attack him)

For the empire!

​@@DarkLordDiablosThat's because Shakespeare is a much better read in original Klingon.

Worf romanticized and treated Honor like a lover and a Warrior of old. Unfortunately he was blind to the politics and corruption to his people in his era followed by and hid behind Klingon traditions. Fortunately Worf was able to put it into that corruption with two stabs to the abdomen later on down the line.

Dax 2.0 agreed with you, Nathaniel.

@@wa.a.s.nfa.2786 It's not surprising that Worf romanticized Klingon warrior culture. Worf was raised by human parents and did not associate with any Klingons until later in life. According to Worf's parents Worf did everything in his power to live as a Klingon, as he believed Klingons to be. This is a major reason why Worf is so serious all the time. He doesn't easily laugh or joke around like other Klingons do. This is why Riker was surprised by the behavior of his Klingon crewmates when served as first officer on a Klingon warship. Riker was shocked that Klingons relax, laugh, make fun of each other since Worf didn't act this way.

@@adamcollazo8228 so very true. We also realize that Worf's composure is due to a trauma that happened in his youth. A tragic accident took place during a soccer game that he was in. He allowed his Klingon aggression and passion get the better of him and it resulted in the death of a teammate. Even though it was ruled as an accident, he realize how easily it is to lose control and those weaker than him could suffer. From that point on he chose to keep himself at a distance while working with humans. The only time he will allow himself to feel his true Klingon Nature's when he did his Holodeck programs calisthenics.

I imagine its because he was a child when he was taken out of klingon society l. He was there long enough to learn its ways but not long enough to see its hypocrisy

Exactly. 😁 There was also a pretty blatant use of a stunt double (for Gowron) during that fight right before they went through the glass. The Klingon Worf was fighting didn't look remotely like Gowron (Robert O'Reilly) for a few seconds.

Gowron: “You will not have this daa............” (Falls over dead) Worf : (ROARS)

@@whoknowswhocares885 👍😁 Exactly. A good way for him to go out. A true Klingon until the end.

@@jacksonheathen2092 even if he became a conniving jealous coward

@@ninsnumber1fan 👍

Partner*

Lol!

That's funny! Not sure I want the wife staring phaser brand beams through me all of the time, though.

If you look at your boss like gowron when asking for a raise, you almost always get it

I looked at my meek 900 sq ft house like that... now it's a multi-million dollar mansion.

Indeed. Despite how cynical the high ranking Klingons were, how they knew the veneer of honour covered something else, at some level they still believe. Gowron's genuine reaction to hearing that not only was treason covered up and an innocent house destroyed for it, but that it was done with the blessing and at the behest of the high council - even the leader of the Empire hadn't realized how deep the rot had set in... and he is powerless to correct it, because all the factors that led to the dishonorable decision remain in place.

@@jarowan The saddest part is that the rot that led to Worf's state here, later forced Worf to kill Gowron.

@@shauntempley9757 Well by the time of the Dominion War had rolled around on DS9, Gowron was pretty much borderline insane considering he felt threatened by a man who had no designs on leading the Empire even if the people had wanted him to do so.

@@DarkLordDiablos Which is what was meant in TNG about the Klingon Empire rotting. Gowron is the expression of that rot. He was put in charge because a Duras led Klingon Empire would have been disastrous in TNG's period never mind in the Dominion War. Because that Empire under their command would have joined it. He only went insane because he saw that the Empire was rotting, and had no clue how to fix it, when it was the same rot that put him in charge in the first place. Only Martok and Worf knew how to, and it is what was shown when Worf and Martok met in that Dominion camp. Gowron never, ever had that kind of fire. He was a politician at best, and an adventurer at most, and unfortunately, an adventurer is not fit to lead a people. Martok was always what the Empire needed. He is the closest to what Kahless represents, as long as he is raised by Klingons. Worf is unfit, because of his time with humans. He would cause as much damage as Duras would have done, and he realises that during DS9.

@@shauntempley9757 with the exception that under Worf, Klingons would have moved to a slightly more economic than militaristic Empire, I'll grant most of this. Not sure if that would really damage the Klingons, but it sure as hell would have put them on a different course.

They shall sing songs of our GLORIOUS Battles...

kzhead.info/sun/oLyShcpllnSko3k/bejne.html&ab_channel=MortenStrandbo click this link, Robert O'reilly talks about how he came up with the eyes.

Sure, but he had a paranoid streak about him a mile wide. It kept him alive, but it also started his descent down a dark path. Whether it began as soon as his reign started, or before, is uncertain. He did begin writing a very favorable account of his role in the civil war. He allowed his fear of the Dominion to go ahead with the invasion of Cardassia, even though he was being manipulated, himself by Cha'rtok. Martok's exploits seemed to dwarf Gowron's comparatively limited experience, and so Gowron risked total defeat in setting up Martok for potential humiliation and dishonor. What honor he had had no chance against his paranoia.

In my eyes thats Kurn who is also a lot bigger probably stronger and sees Gowron as a weakling

@@Euripides_Panz What you say is true but I have to disagree with the implication that Gowron was somehow dishonored. Gowron's main flaw was hubris. He thought he was more capable than he actually was, more intelligent than he actually was, and this caused him to become arrogant. The corruption in the empire was not his fault and he made efforts to deal with it but he simply wasn't able to handle it. Nevertheless, he never resorted to treachery or dishonorable tactics. He met his end in battle against a worthy adversary and lived his life fighting in the open against internal corruption in the empire and external threats like the Romulans and the Dominion. I'd say Gowron kept his honor even if his performance as Chancellor was mediocre overall.

Idk, first 4 seasons of game of thrones were really up there

Yes amazing line

@@jwilson544 What does that have to do with Star Trek?

@Vladimir Chernikov that there is still great in shows today

@@jwilson544 If you read the books, you'll know they almost copied it verbatim in the show. It must have been the easiest show to write. That's why once they reached beyond the books, the writing fell off a cliff.

And ended with his death at Worfs hands

So good

Yes, the best story arc in STNG. I love well-done political chicanery in sci-fi (which is why I'm currently a fan of The Expanse).

Yeah it sucked though how they did worfs family name gave it back to him then took it back poor Guy

@@melvindevine9048 Yeah, but then he became a member of the house of Martok, which is, of course, a house of great honor :)

Also he was stuck on Qo'noS whilst others like Martok were on the front lines lapping up all the glory of possibly the greatest war the Empire has been involved in. That must be tough on a Klingon. Even knowing Martok would never challenge him and would never support such a challenge.

I think you are giving Gowron too much credit. he was always corrupt. Physically pained mabe but he still refused to correct the corruption to protect his own power. even when Worf offered to give Gowron the followers of Kurn he wanted Federation help. then when it was Picard who needed to borrow a bird of prey Gowron was unavailable and what was he doing at that time rewriting the history books claiming it was his genius that won him the civil war without Federation help

@@DavidKnowles0 that is too generous. he didnt take command to gain glory. he took command to shame Martok and get him killed

That was the thing about trek in the 90s they were the original woke. They knew everything in a character is not good or evil. There is a line by which the best ones walk tightly upon. Modern writers can learn a lot from this!

That's a good point. Gowron's flaws definitely helped make him a better character.

@@Archedgar personally i liked martok alot better

@@ninsnumber1fan Both were good for their own reasons. Both were exceptionally well done.

@@2bescenecom Yup! Some of the characters show a lot of LGBTQ+ traits that are so widely accepted today. DS9 was particularly known for this, between Garak (he was originally meant to be gay), Kira (female role-model), Sisko (black command figure), and - by a country mile - Jadzia Dax (female role model, polyamorous, transgender (trill are kind of like that when joined), interracial marriage (to Worf)...). If you don't force it and find a way to make it work, then it doesn't come off as preachy in the slightest.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely

In the beginning Gowron was a very honest and honourable man, but as Adam pointed out, absolute power corrupts absolutely and by the end he had become borderline insane seeing the likes of Martok as a rival for his job even though Martok wasn't interested in the job. The council's corruption did hit him hard especially when the evidence against Duras was known, though the fact he knew that the council was still loyal to his family, it does make you wonder why he was so surprised. Still great acting from Robert O'Reilly who always put everything he had into the character from his crazy eyes to his way of talking was top notch.

He became a joke of a character on DS9 unfortunately.

@@LKaramazov *eyes widen*

He was still playing the political game in TNG. He refused to restore Worf's family honor here. And when he became the chancellor, he only restored Worf's family honor after Worf promised the support of the fleets under Kurn plus a petition for help from the Federation.

Its why Gowron was such a good character as he was acted to absolute perfection since everything was done with head and facial movements.

Some believe this is because Klingons are heavily based on the customs of feudal Japan, particularly the samurai.

@@DragonHeir92 Klingons are half Japanese Samurai and half Vikings. The whole Klingon afterlife is based on Viking lore such as Asgard and their love of bladed weapons and the Bat'Leth is like the Samurai and their swords.

Gowron had the power to do what was right here by restoring Worf's family name, he did restore his family name later when it was politically expedient to do so! Later he stripped Kurn of his seat on the council due to Worf opposing the invasion of Cardassia!

It's the power of TNG as well, in the tradition of Trek: excellent writing elevated by great performances.

Well in a sense he did because the heart of a Klingon is one of Honour so to hear that the Council he was part of and become leader of had knowingly condemned a loyal House and forced upto that point its last living descendent to accept discommendation to protect a traitor, hit him like a truck.

I made a similar observation. But yes, even though the Klingons knew that politics sometimes forced compromises their honor may not have reconciled with, they still very much cared about conducting ones self with integrity. When Gowron learned that the Council, who were supposed to be the very best of them, deliberately destroyed a loyal family to protect a traitor it outraged him to his core.

A klingon series would have been awesome, just keep the current crop of star trek producers away from it.

They cannot figure out a way to make it Woke that is why they are not interested, they would prefer that current abortion on CBS they call Star Trek

@@kdrapertrucker God yes not within a light year

Did you ever play the game, Star Trek: Klingon Academy? It had the actor who played General Chang reprise his role. Very epic and wonderful story showing, yet again, what can be done with Klingons. But the heroes of a Klingon show would naturally embody a warrior tradition in its highest sense, the ideal Samurai or warrior from the Vedic texts, and they would be fighting against the power plays and corruption of less than ideal Klingons. It might turn out something like the Godfather... which guarantees it'll be a massive hit. I suspect the studios wouldn't like it either because they are ignorant of the potential or because it doesn't suit their political agenda. I can't see how they'd make a Klingon show about feminism and gay rights. I guess they could try, but no one would watch it lol.

Klingon politics! It would be like the Japanese historical dramas from the Sengoku Jidai!

Going over Star Trek clips over quarantine, huh Tay? I don't blame you. (*Cough* DS9's the best one *cough)

@@ThatOneRandomSteve DS9 was the best, after season 3.

@@ThatOneRandomSteve next gen>ds9>voyager

I HATE what they did to Gowron in DS9.

@@joshuacollins9346 I used to, but then I realized they wrote his character arc in this way to remind us of one of the harsher truths of society- all great leaders change, sometimes for the worst, and who they might've been before can never be allowed to excuse what they become

When he first became Chancellor, actually. Only a few episodes later, by "Unification I", Gowron "rewrote" the "official" version of what happened during the Klingon Civil War, leaving out the fact that the Federation helped him expose the Duras family's collusion with the Romulans. That was the first sign of power corrupting him. Then a few years later, when the Klingons started a war with Cardassia on suspicions that the Dominion had taken it over, Gowron pulled the Empire out of the Khitomer Accords after Worf wouldn't help him. When the Dominion War officially broke out, Gowron did technically restore the Klingon-Federation alliance, but he was very stingy with the amount of ships and personnel he actually allowed to get involved in the war. Worf was finally forced to kill a man he once considered his friend when it became clear that Gowron's methods for fighting the Dominion weren't working.

I feel this was by design in the storytelling. The concept of a good honest man corrupted by power and obligations is a very old story that can be found in any society that has a government. It makes for really compelling characters because it makes the viewer wonder if they too could be corrupted like this one person who used to be honest and noble. This also makes you question the other villains in a show to wonder if they have always been evil and what made them evil. Lastly if an honest man can turn to the dark side, what does this mean for the heroes of a story. Could they turn dark as well? Fun stuff!

@@benvolio15 now I know you're talking nonsense, government leaders don't suddenly start becoming foolish and power-hungry when they are elec......i'll shut up now.

I’m not your friend, pal!

@@BPond7 I'm not your pal, friend!

Worf's life in a nutshell; living with decisions he makes that worked out in everyone's favor except his own poor worf

@@hobomike6935 Kern and Alexander might disagree with that statement, his decisions kinda screwed them.

@@logicplague2077 dang cant argue with that i forgot he literally erased his brother's entire life and legacy in ds9. not one of the show's better moments

"It will not be easy for him." "No, it won't" "but at some point, he's going to want to know what it's like to really be a Klingon." "Just as you're learning now."

Worf, son of Mogh, is with honor.

"the council knew??!"

I really wish Gowron had added "yet" when he said "i cannot expose their treachery." just that little change would have added he at least thought to repay worf once he was able to, rather then if he felt like it.

@@hobomike6935 At least the conspiracy had Gowron's attention

His forearms were always too skinny for a klingon, But MAN he made up for it with his insanely deep booming voice. Michael Dorn was the perfect pick for Worf, chief of security

Gowron was selfish and political, but he was never bad. He made *some* good decisions for the empire while he was in control (and not under influence by a changeling) and was MUCH better than the corrupt and treacherous Duras would have been as chancellor. I think he made it to sto'vo'kohr or whatever the Klingon heaven is. He didn't sneak around and stab people in the back, he confronted his enemies openly, including his death.

@@hobomike6935 I said nuts, not evil. At the end he was desperate to redeem not only the empire, but himself, having been fooled by a changeling for who knows how long. He felt the empire had been made the laughing stock of BOTH quadrants. He had to fix that. This also made him paranoid with Martock. He feasts and fights eternally in the halls of Stovokor.

He let his circumstances get to him but he was not evil. Hence a tragic villain.

@@robjackson5245 Fair.

@@tyrongkojy Gowron is like the mayor in "Dark Knight."

He is absolutely fantastic. Gowron is almost the opposite of Warf. Where as Warf is quite calm and restrained and mindful so much of the time, Gowron is fiery with those distinctive eyes of his and he’s passionate in a different sort of way from Warf’s understated passion courage and honour. I guess you can put that down to Robert O’Reilly’s superlative acting and characterisation.

@@U2QuoZepplin O'Reilly's mannerisms and the eye. Dude really sold his character.

You haven't experienced Shakespeare until you've read it in the original Klingon.

Rick Tallman to be honest I’ve barely experienced Shakespeare in the non original human! 🤥🤗😧🙄🥸🥸🥸😆😁😄🤣

Oh come-on haven't ya seen discovery yo..."I like science"...brilliant amazing empowering stuff!......

Trek peaked with Wrath of Khan.

@@alphanerd7221 WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONGGGG!!!!!

That unique look is one of the reasons he got made into a more important character after his first appearance, along with the performance in general.

@@JackgarPrime Exactly. He was a holodeck character in one of Picard's (Dixon Hill) programs in Season 1.

@@jacksonheathen2092 Fun fact: They had him as the main villain of the VCR board game, although technically as a different character named Kavok. Even though he was basically just playing Gowron still. But a different name means you can kill him at the end and not mess any canon up.

@@JackgarPrime I still have that game.

kzhead.info/sun/oLyShcpllnSko3k/bejne.html&ab_channel=MortenStrandbo Robert O'Reilly talks about how he came up with the eyes.

He always was a politician vying to hold onto power, he was worried Martok would pull a Duras and try and take power from him.

He loved the window though. He went through it with ease. He had a smashing time

Until Worf stuck a bat'leth inside his belly, that is....

@@LGranthamsHeir There was some obvious use of a stunt double for Gowron during that fight a few seconds before they went through the glass.

@@JaredlS10 And he did. But Martok didn't die. When the new emperor took over. STO.

Every great leader must step down. Sometimes by force.

True...

Take the throne to act and the throne acts on you. It seems like this moment is the first time he finds out that the High Council is acting dishonorably for political reasons but I doubt it would be the last. Why did he need to get rid of Martok and why was he so desperate to do so that he'd risk losing the war with the Dominion? That never really gets an answer but it isn't too hard to imagine the answer being High Council politics. That is a very high stakes gamble but we only get to see it from the side of the House of Martok. In the end, Gowron lost that bet, but if he had won what was he planning? We'll probably never know.

Tell that Klingon to be cool! Tell that f@#king Klingon to chill! Promise him it'll all be right! Promise him! Hey, point that disruptor at me!

Yeah! His question of "There is proof of this?" was merely making sure.

I think he’s “practical”. The four categories you listed is what made stories TOO simple. Good characters always change and waver, their growth and needs in different stages bring them to life. Characters were put into four categories AFTER interactions and circumstances, not before.

The actors were not over scripted and they were allowed to riff by the directors. Now the stakes are too high too much money is on the line, and everything is absolutely premeditated. Ex) Gowron and his eyes kzhead.info/sun/oLyShcpllnSko3k/bejne.html

I completely agree. TNG, DS9, and VOY were the best. Although I still love TOS (and Enterprise was alright). I've only been able to stomach a few episodes of Discovery, and haven't watched any of the Picard series yet (I can't endure another disappointment). But those JJ Abrams movies were absolutely horrible. They changed Startrek from great SciFi into some ridiculous superhero action movies.

@@Mandolatron The Eye of Sauron? More like the Eyes of Gowron.

@@jacksonheathen2092 Don't watch Picard. It sucks. Picard dies and then resurrects as either a clone or an android, I can't tell which one. Regardless, one does not simply turn Picard into a clone or an android.

@@inertiaforce7846 Thank you for the warning. I always suspected it sucked. If they really wanted to change Star Trek that much, then should have just came up with an entirely new series. In fact I think Gene Roddenberry actually said once that there were infinite possible storylines for the galaxy. Unfortunately they just want to keep selling us the same thing over & over again.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think Ezri Dax opinion of the Klingon Empire was correct

it vas inwented by a leetle old lady in Leningrad.

Chough chough Romulan Star Empire cough. :D

@@ajdown .....and they called her Catherine the Great.

@@yama123numbercauseytdemand4 Yep. Cardassians and ferengi too.

Glad to hear it!

Worf, son of Mogh, is with honor.

Hail Martok! Leader of Destiny!

Worf lived by the word of Kahless, who was more of a Monk warrior/poet and understood that there's more to being a Klingon than glory. He held himself to an extremely high standard of honor and selflessness. His people in contrasted strayed away from this and became slovenly and brutish. However, He really struggled in other aspects of Klingon culture, Like drinking, brawling, and enjoying life, which Kah'less would have wanted klingons to do (within reason.) His mates, Keh'lar and Jadzia, usually helped him with this shortcoming, and to a lesser extent counselor troi, but they all either died, had a falling-out with him, or both.

Martok, Kurn, Azetbur, Kang, Kolos and Gorkon.

I think Worf believed he was serving the empire. But as Dax pointed out he was willing to tolerate and accept deception and corruption from Klingon Leadership. He also knowingly participated in a lie to protect and cover up the wrongs of the Empire. Gowron was right to refuse helping Worf. Worf made the decision and should have to live with the consequences of that decision.

"I am not a traitor."

* Looks at Michael Moore & Kanye West *

@Hannibal Barca Why who has he betrayed? Those who believed he'd jail Hillary and keep out of Syria?

Someone must have activated the Omega 13 device and went back to 2016! 🍊

Very welcome. This was a good way to end this season.

You shouldn't be, that was a death befitting a klingon! He started to get weak and warf saved him

@@jamesmeppler6375 pull those buggy eyes open and roar in to the air!

At least he made it almost to the end of DS9. There were only a few more episodes left at that point.

The House of Duras is without honor.

Yes they did, High Chancellor K'mpec himself knew

Just before he was poisoned...the episode with them turning their backs on warf was a great scene

It definitely made my top 5 when I voted in the Viewer's Choice Marathon they did at the end of Season Seven.

His jealousy over Martok could have enabled the Dominion to conquer the Alpha Quadrant.

Seems a ship's captain has extreme levels of diplomatic authority. If you go back to Archer's days, the origination of this came into play where it was mentioned it was not feasible to consult with an actual ambassador in imperative situations, so the ship's captain had to act in this capacity. This likely carries over into codified form for a Starfleet captain.

It wasn't dismissive. The minute Worf said the Council was in on his forced discommendation, shifted everything. To expose Duras would have been to expose the Council, and that would have been a death sentence for him. Especially after K'mpek had been assassinated by agents unknown. We still to this day don't know who poisoned him, just that it was likely an agent for Duras. Perhaps those on the Council. If Duras' loyalists could kill one Chancellor, they could certainly kill another.