“You have to look at the problem pragmatically not idealistically”.... I think you hit the nail on the head. VERY well done I really enjoyed this video.
@johnthomas89695 жыл бұрын
Most people don't know what "pragmatically" means.
@nakedfreak15 ай бұрын
This conversation reminds me of contemporary reports I have read about the devastation that could be inflicted by one flock of passenger pigeons back in the 19th century. I remember reading a magazine article from Iowa in which a farmer lost an entire field of grain in three days. No amount of shooting or beating could drive away the birds. They were described as rolling over each other like waves of water. I’m sure African farmers could relate.
@taylorharbin394810 ай бұрын
I grew up around Hunters, I don't give a damn if people hunt as long as they dress, process, and consume the animal themselves. Or if they're literally controlling the population size so it doesn't get out of control. But hunting for the sake of [sport killing] to me is borderline serial killer Behavior.
@theylied17766 жыл бұрын
what if the meat goes to locals though who need it?
@Turk_20236 жыл бұрын
Bill & Bill`s Gentlemans Club Nope, that's just a rationalization. The purpose is to kill for the sake of killing. It's not for survival nor is it to control the population.
@theylied17766 жыл бұрын
Bill & Bill`s Gentlemans Club I'm from the south and they've had to toughen up the laws about disposing of the carcass of an animal because you had so-called Hunters killing Whitetail deer, taking the heads and just dumping the bodies along the side of the highway.
@theylied17766 жыл бұрын
Local African's do not hunt lions or elephants or rhinos for meat. Yet US hunters proclaim them giving the meat as some life saving resource when it's actually not and the locals do not depend on it, they eat perfectly fine.
@paul_tully6 жыл бұрын
It is. Hunting for food is more considerate to the animal rather than buying from a store. But hunting for fun is completely psychopathic.
@IV_976 жыл бұрын
Great show ,I am sure a lot of people don’t realize this is how it works . Thanks Joe
@ez123ification6 жыл бұрын
Awesome podcast. Very informative and actually might have changed my mind on something i felt very strong about for a long ass time...
@Kevin-iq1xc6 жыл бұрын
Yeah, trophy hunting is pretty gross, but it's objectively improved the situation for many animal populations and a lot of people's quality of life.
@bobbygetsbanned6049 Жыл бұрын
It takes a well developed person to keep an open mind on topics that you have strong feelings about. Personally I look at a trophy hunter as a moron. But don’t think pro wrestling should be banned either.
@brettrussell35505 ай бұрын
@@brettrussell3550 It’s pretty natural to be proud of a large or nice animal you’ve killed. But specifically hunting for trophies I will agree I think it’s sort of weird
@DocHudson4205 ай бұрын
@@DocHudson420it’s not weird at all. Hunting for trophies is the most valuable form of conservation. I’ve hunted around the US a little in BC and Argentina. When u go after the trophies it lets the young ones grow up. When u kill the young ones, it wipes out local populations. Just like white tails. Don’t kill all the spike bucks then only does run around and gets over populated.
@lowcountryadventures55494 ай бұрын
I am a S.A. Ranger , what we are talking about with hunting to letting animals survive has two main reasons that helps conserving nature because that is what Rangers do. One is keeping populations on levels so that there is enough food for them to survive (we keep track of the food and water sources) , second is making money which is needed for the economy aswell for the reserves to survive, Hunters are tourists. To give a example , Elephants knock down trees, that is good for some animals that cannot reach trees but its bad for the girafe who needs living trees to eat. So to keep the Girafe alive we need to make sure we do not have to much elephants destroying trees, they willl have to be moved in some cases in other cases they will just get shot. The only things which is not allowed is going in to reserves to illegally kill endangered animals which happens on a daily bases , at that point you will play with your lives as fellow Rangers will confront you and arrest you or worse. But since ivory is worth more then gold per gram, there is a criminal syndicate that is running this business and coruption is wide spread. I have never hunted in my live and have no intrest in it, we live in a time where some animals have been reduced since we have been counting populations from a couple of 100.0000 animals to a couple of hundred in the world. The problem is the growing population and the fact that there is no controll, the rising population needs jobs , food and water , they need rescources. Those resources are slinking and with that instability is arrising , look at South Africa. And then you are surrounced by animals that are worth a lot, so you can imagine that protecting these animals from extinsion will become a war in the future.
@ru8020006 жыл бұрын
Why is that ? everybody is entitled to his opinion but give me your reasoning ? I do not hunt or support hunting, i have taken an oath to protect endangered animals with my life if need be. SO i do not fully understand your comment ?
@ru8020006 жыл бұрын
Most of the money made from these trophy hunters does not go to help the local villages or communities nor does it go to help with conservation. It goes into the pockets of greedy people. The white rhino is now down to 2 and when they die that species will be extinct. So tell me again how trophy hunting helps? I understand that poaching also contributes to animal extinct but still why trophy hunt when it is known that poachers are contributing to the dwindling numbers of particular species. These animals have maintained a balance for all these centuries with the help of mother nature why would they need a human's help now?
@elizabethhuie5633 жыл бұрын
@@elizabethhuie563 They actually do help the population grow and it makes the reservation money to protect the creatures and a incentive to keep them alive and let them breed to increase the population. Also a lot of times they will kill the dangerous ones that can’t breed anymore or are too aggressive which makes their genes better. Finally, hunters can give their meat away to the locals.
@Deerhunter606413 жыл бұрын
You raise good points. However, anyone who gets enjoyment/pleasure from killing animals is a sadistic psychopath, they are no different than the crazy people who set cats and dogs on fire. Trophy hunting is mental illness. They kill off the strong while predators and natural forces kill off the weak. Humans harm things more than they help it.
@acjohn69952 жыл бұрын
@@elizabethhuie563 That is true , but reserves are privately owned pieces of land, companies anywhere on this globe do not share money with civilians over nothing. but it can generate jobs for villagers who would else have nothing. They can become poachers as well. everybody needs live and who doesn't want to be rich, some people will go further then other to reach that even if it means killing animals or people.
@ru8020002 жыл бұрын
There are some places with too many humans, we should let the elephants hunt them.
@conicalreason29816 жыл бұрын
ConicalReason can we start with Chicago, Detroit, new York, San Fransisco an LA?
@yodaddy49446 жыл бұрын
great to see you value the lives of animals over humans. what a great person you are! hypocrite.
@aidanrox1176 жыл бұрын
@Urban Student Prepper what proves that all animals are equal? IQ? Innovation? Civilization?
@gsacelm77535 жыл бұрын
@Urban Student Prepper lol then what scientific proof do you have that all animals are equal? You just strawmanned all my points and used a personal insult.
@gsacelm77535 жыл бұрын
@Urban Student Prepper And other animals eating humans doesn't make them superior
@gsacelm77535 жыл бұрын
Read "Death In The Long Grass" by Peter Hathaway Capstick. It goes in-depth into this very conversation and that book is 45 years old.
@donaldstone540 Жыл бұрын
Thanks Jamie for showing that website I have to make a speech on the matter and this website about the Cecil effect will help graciously because everything I talk about must be backed by a source
@nickmag61424 жыл бұрын
Hunt the poachers 😎
@erikclarkson28116 жыл бұрын
You realize that "poachers" are dirt-poor native Africans who live in straw and mud huts, with dirt floors, no plumbing, electric, who actually have to worry every day they wake up if their children are going to die of hunger, right? To say nothing of being able to save up enough money to have on hand if someone in their family gets sick or injured. It sure is easy to sit on your $1,000 electronic device, with a full belly, in a completely climate controlled 2,000 square foot home, knowing your very need and a majority of your wants are within your grasp at any moment, and criticize a person who likely does not have the means to feed themselves every day.
@seandoherty42366 жыл бұрын
Sean Doherty Yeah the same dumbass poachers that saw off rhinos 🦏 horns and elephant tusks while being tranquilized and left to die. Fuck that. Why don’t you give some poachers your money since you care to respond. There’s no other way earn money but poaching fuck you. Lmao
@erikclarkson28116 жыл бұрын
Erik Clarkson if you where in there position you would do the same shit if you could kill a large game animal to make enough food and money to feed your family for months off of one animal that may have fucked up your crops may have killed your livestock or children disgusting how you sit one your device in a first world country judging people who struggle just to survive who aren’t even killing people
@brendanakers72944 жыл бұрын
@@seandoherty4236 Don't care i'll collect their skulls to preserve Gods Creatures. Call it American Superiority but i just don't care about their Dirt Poor lifestyles they paid the price.
@crispwhitesheets21754 жыл бұрын
Sean Doherty oh, no... my house is over 3000 square feet. And... hunt the poachers... poachers kill rhinos for their horns (among other things). Do some simple research.
@FelixPfaltermann3 жыл бұрын
If you look at the Earth pragmatically, agriculture has caused the humanpopulation to grow explosively. Agriculture has made it possible for man to leave the way of the hunter & gatherer which unfortunately disrupts the natural balance. Don't get me wrong agriculture is great, but for humans only. The paradox is that the more food we create, the more the human population will grow and the more our population keeps growing, the more food we will need (read: the more natural wildlife and Jungle is converted into farmland. Untill our planet is nothing but cities and Farmland. By this time the biodiversity of our planet has been so diminished that nature is forced to push the reset button, or humanity will wipe itself out for having waged war over dwindling resources.
@TrickyD6 жыл бұрын
You’re right in pretty much every aspect .... technically. But you’re looking at humans as some species like it’s extremely close to the most intelligent of apes, etc. We can’t live like barbarians... and human development is almost always a cause some type anti-animal/earth development also.
@user-mq6kd6mf1v4 жыл бұрын
Dereck and Beverly Joubert: When a male lion dies, his companion male (usually two or more males control and defend a pride of females) is left facing threats all alone. Incoming challengers, as in the start of The Last Lions, easily overwhelm the solitary male. So right there, we issue one lion license for hunting and the system suffers a loss of two. When new males take over a pride the first thing they try to do is dominate the female pride (the whole reason for all this) and their entire purpose for that is to mate and spread their genes. Functionally what has to happen to achieve that is to bring the females into estrous, and if they have suckling cubs the males have to kill those first. Old cubs from the dead male don’t make sense genetically either so they kill those. Prides average 8 females. Females average 4 cubs every 2 years. Depending on where we are in that two year cycle of breeding when the one male is hunted, and new males arrive, we could see 24 cubs killed, one older male (with a license attached) and another older male, and usually one female like Ma di Tau who resists and doesn’t make it. Death toll: round it down to 25 lions. Fees to government: for one male.
@Lauren-rq4xt4 жыл бұрын
In short, trophy hunters are scumbags.
@acjohn69952 жыл бұрын
Clearly that's not what the park rangers have observed, they kept the reserves population of lions for 40 years.
@JohnnyKaw11B Жыл бұрын
Take Cecile the lion. He had one partner in his coalition (what the bands of males are called. Can be large groups and the biggest documented have been 6, 7, and one of even 8 I think. The six were famous. They came into an area, killed dozens of other males, killed many many dozens of cubs and ate them. Didnt stop there. They also killed many females. This one group of male lions DECIMATED the lion population of the Sabi Sands and around that area and held it for YEARS. Eventually another group of 5 younger bigger males moved into the area. Two of the six split one of the five off from the rest and killed him. The remaining four brothers figured out what had happened and tracked down the two over a LONG distance, brutally attacked and killed one on the spot and injured and chased the second a long ways. The second found his other brothers and went back to the area to chase off the younger males. The younger ones found the one they chased, tagged him, and two of the four held him as the other two attacked the rest and chased the other males out. They came back and all of them again brutally killed the one that had helped kill their brother and ate him. Fast forward they injured and chased off the remaining older males all of whom died from either the injuries or starvation pretty quickly after. The new males ruled the area for years after and brought about a massive boom in cubs, expansion of territory, and safety for the females and cubs. Basically they fixed what the big group before them broke. The moral of the story, lions themselves will do what we are talking about here, managing the population and dealing with problems ect, but it took way too long and permanently eradicated some very long standing female lines from the area that had been extremely successful for years, but the original males came in, killed thier males, killed the cubs, and then killes too many of the females themselves for the familial pride to continue. We could have stopped that and protected the numbers but weren't allowed to and it will be many many years before the issue is anywhere near being resolved in a good positive way. Also, its all about genes. Tge strongest genes win most of the time. And that's what happened in my story above. Anyways. Long story but yea. They war and kill each other on "mass" levels at times but that coalition of males was just super violent and destructive and should have been removed before they damaged the system so badly that it will take 50 years to recover. And last, if we do it the illogical, "animal rights" leftist way, the people living on the ground and poachers will absolutely eradicate the hunted species in their area. Elephants, rhinos, lions, leopards, ect will be just absolutely destroyed and WILL, not may, absolutely 100% WILL be hunted to extinction in very short time. Probably years, not even decades. So y'all get what you deserve, which is the exact OPPOSITE outcome you claim to want, if we put you plans and desires into action. It's just infuriating to me because I LOVE these animals so much and have so much respect for them and know they are just absolutely beautiful and INCREDIBLY intelligent, aware, with very complex emotional and some times social intelligence like seen with wolves and elephants and orca. I know they are vastly more intelligent than either the VAST majority of people or even scientist give them credit for. I want them to have safe and proper habitat and to live the lives they are supposed to and be happy and free, and the hunting/big game system does BOTH. It serves very clear purposes and achieves them consistently. Take giraffes for instance. People got mad about one being killed on a game Reserve. Just flipped. Come to find out he was an old bull that couldn't mate any longer but was KILLING all the younger males that came into the area and it started to cause a problem. I mean after one old male who cant breed had killed two or three younger males in a pretty short time it was obvious he was a problem. How many babbies had the old bull prevented from being born just cause he was old, very experienced, and brutally violent. So what do you do in that situation? Just let him keep killing all these younger males that it kad taken YEARS AND YEARS for them to get to that point and then gone. He this one old pointless bull that can do nothing for the giraffe population, and is actually doing major harm to it, more important for some reason than the younger males? Id say he is far far less important taking all that into consideration and neede to be killed before doing even more damage. And was. Would these people have just let him keep killing all these younger males? Smh. Last, the younger male lions in my story were known as the majingilane male coalition, and the coalition that caused so much damage and they finally displaced was known as the mopogo male lion coalition.
@bw040690 Жыл бұрын
Joe "Thanos" Rogan!
@JaeLee836 жыл бұрын
HOW TO STOP POACHERS: 1. Make hunting poachers legal. Simple. Let the cannibals hunt poachers.
@plantseedsstaywoke95506 жыл бұрын
Grumpy Man are you slow
@user-mq6kd6mf1v4 жыл бұрын
Grumpy Man, what? When have u been able to gun down poachers
@skylee43804 жыл бұрын
Grumpy Man you made it sound like it’s legal to the common man to just go hunt poachers lol. There’s a specific context behind what you actually mean
@user-mq6kd6mf1v4 жыл бұрын
Grumpy Man once again.. no.. all regulated based off literally anywhere. You make this sound so easy, look up the complexity of poaching laws in different countries (parts of countries) and then see how many of those places you’re allowed to kill poachers besides regulated areas owned by safari adventures, etc. You don’t just get a poachers license you tool.
@user-mq6kd6mf1v4 жыл бұрын
They literally protect against poachers with american mercenaries and former SF guys
@mediaistheenemy4 жыл бұрын
I hear the drums echoing tonight...
@lSn3z6 жыл бұрын
Does anyone know of a website that describes the negative aftermath of the whole Cecil the lion incident involving poachers and killing excess lions
@nickmag61424 жыл бұрын
Michael Savage put that bug in Trump’s ear when he had a sit down with him recently. I’m all for hunting and plan to get more into it myself as my sons get old enough. Not sure how I feel about big game hunting. I want to hear thorough arguments from both sides (about to listen to this video).
@jims5126 жыл бұрын
Deer is big game hunting
@chadconstable797 ай бұрын
It bothers me too your soo right, I’m African and thank you 🙏🏾
@modelaircraft65764 жыл бұрын
This discussion is gospel. Unfortunately most people will not understand this until they’ve spent 2 months in the bush….but they never will. Yes, I am from rural Africa.
@liamcostello47743 ай бұрын
i only think bow hunting is fucking cool.. there is something weird about sitting in a fort with scoped gun waiting for an animal to cross you in the distance. but that bow requires so much skill that it looks like actual work for the prize.
@doodooballs806 жыл бұрын
Shooting people is cool too I guess for some people
@Youtubestolemyname999994 жыл бұрын
There's just way too many examples that a great many hunters (possibly the majority) hunt primarily for the "thrill" of taking a life.
@dogsplayingpoker23955 жыл бұрын
I hunt for many reasons.. I get a thrill out of it and afterwards i get free food. Whats wrong with that?
@joeblow95414 жыл бұрын
Thats because you're a pussy a weak man these men just want to do what God gave them a Hunting Instinct.
@crispwhitesheets21754 жыл бұрын
@@crispwhitesheets2175 He's not a pussy nor a weak man, his a real man with the soul of a thinker and a warrior. You and these man are pussies and weak man, God never gave them a hunting instinct, they have no hunting instinct, they are cowards that would pee in their pants if an animal would run towards them and scream to the hunting guides to save them while crying. Hunters are angsty parasites that would cry out of fear if someone actually slap them. They would immediately run to mommy police and have nightmares from the slap. God gave us empathy and wisdom to protect our animals, God never gave you anything but fear and inferiority complexes.
@teve30412 жыл бұрын
You try and fire a gun/bow at something living that could potentially harm you if you miss, or even if it doesn’t have the ability to hurt you it’s still a thrill & takes our mind and biology back to when we were Hunter gatherers, what do you want people to do? Not have an adrenaline dump? You can’t control something like that especially doing something that your instincts are useful for.
@bruhdon4748 Жыл бұрын
I 100% hunt for the thrill of the hunt primarily, not necessarily the kill itself but the whole process and connection with nature wrapped into one package. I use every animal I kill in some way and meat is a big part of it too but it ain’t my primary motivator
@monkeymode752911 ай бұрын
Ohhhhh Simba, don't kill Simba
@Charmer48566 жыл бұрын
Woo hoo number 2 . I've this show
@szoladarrell6 жыл бұрын
Joe thank you for calling them rich overpaid murderers.........who kill not hunt...hunting is where the hunter picks up a couple of animal rubs or some animal tracks so as a hunter again pursues the path and then starts hunting
@tootattim5 жыл бұрын
How do you think they find the animals
@thegodfather_84554 жыл бұрын
@Kurt E. Clothier yes you cannot i don't think you can hint out of a moving vehicle dumbass also you have to hunt on a hunting preserve you can't just shoot animals anywhere
@thegodfather_84554 жыл бұрын
@Kurt E. Clothier and you would know how did you do a internet search
@thegodfather_84554 жыл бұрын
@Kurt E. Clothier the only idiot here is you have you ever even hunted.......
@thegodfather_84554 жыл бұрын
The conversation about trophy hunting is not this black and white, on either side. As usual, there are other solutions available, not just A causes B -> no trophy hunting equals poaching. When we talk about crops destroyed or lions multiplying, we have to also talk about loss of habitat. We are too many people and putting up palm oil plantations is taking out big portions of natural habitat. Farmers have to find new areas to cultivate. Also when you put a lot of predators and a lot of prey in smaller areas than what they are meant to naturally live in, of course there will be consequences. Trophy hunting as an industry is not corruption free and some local communities do not benefit from it. There are reports from hard hit areas like Tanzania, where decline in elephant population has been vast, all elephant parts have been banned from commercial trade, however trophies fall outside commercial products listings. Also there are many varied measures taken in many local communities to protect their crops from elephants, f.ex. chilli/tobacco based deterrents. So if we want to talk about conservation/trophy hunting/poaching, let's talk about it as a whole, all the problems and solutions included and with neither side narrowing the solutions to fit 1 or 2 options. Africa is not some helpless continent that needs a western saviour. There are great inventions and a great working population there. Maybe we ought to talk about how to properly pay them for their work and support their work and creativity in equal measures to ours.
@wilmsh5 жыл бұрын
I can almost feel the food wasn't raised properly in any where near good conditions.Like you not only can taste it was confined to a small pen.It leaves you feeling nervous and full of anxiety lacking energy.You can see these chickens have been abused prior to slaughtering them.With the apparent bruising and broken limbs prior to water injections.
@scottmaytham3578Ай бұрын
Kardashian’s in Africa, ha I’m dying 😭!!!!
@sampeters31266 жыл бұрын
Because that’s exactly what it is
@Eire4life7 ай бұрын
Most people go on non-hunting luxury safaris which contributes more money and jobs to areas than hunting. Non-hunting safari companies also pay for anti-poaching teams. Non-hunting safari reintroduced rhinos back into parts of Botswana. Hunting on the other hand remove the strongest breeding males which is potentially detrimental to species. This is propaganda
@Lauren-rq4xt4 жыл бұрын
If you knew what you were talking about you would know that hunting reserves specifically select for old or problem animals.
@tommythyroid6248 Жыл бұрын
Its mental to think that we can think this way ( in our logic ) who the fuck do WE think we are....
@williamscanlon2006 жыл бұрын
Why don’t we make it fair and give the trophy hunters a spear against a lion and see how many they kill then
@blessedfromday11703 жыл бұрын
Maybe the lion should’ve evolved the skills and intellect required to wield and shoot a weapon.
@sex.Ай бұрын
Dude payed like 35k to kill cecil the lion and turns out they people he gave the money too didnt even have permits or license to kill it and they lured it illegally. If it hadn't been a famous lion with a tracker they wouldn't have been caught. Im sure the legal hunting isn't stopping poaching to that degree and numbers are little exaggerated. Idt joe would kill something unless he's eating it.
@mcphlyyy19193 жыл бұрын
Tourism generates significantly more revenue than trophy hunting so better to focus on that and get tourism dollars flowing into more rural areas via tourism.
@haydensmomma70736 жыл бұрын
Can you back this up with some stats?
@spidervenom146 жыл бұрын
No
@thegodfather_84554 жыл бұрын
Imagine what would happen if America lost its power grid. 😮
@patw87955 ай бұрын
Most of the animals killed for trophy hunting are large males (in the case of loins especially). When one of these ‘pride’ loin males is killed it has a huge effect on the social structure of the population with the new pride male which comes in killing many of the younger cubs. Yes trophy hunting may help the population growth, but it has to be done right and I don’t think selling the right to kill that animal to a fat rich American is the answer.
@conormaloney95304 жыл бұрын
What is your answer then. It is easy to simply be anti. How would you support conservation in Africa?
@dister724 ай бұрын
Then what is? You got an answer? Everyone complains and acts superior, but no solutions ? The cubs die when the old males are ousted, by natural or human interaction.
@petematts6094 ай бұрын
they give facts on reasons it helps the ppl and animals but ppl don't wanna listen. don't wanna thays fine let's drop your ads and your family over there with no money and no job and see how you feel then.
@brianmiddleton33596 жыл бұрын
I don't see an issue with trophy hunting as long as you're actually using the whole animal and not wasting it.
@scottbivins47586 ай бұрын
Citation on where the money went.
@alienindustriallawnscapes8296 жыл бұрын
Early people to the americas mostly hunted to survive, food, clothes, tools, etc.
@Ivan-pl2it4 ай бұрын
I don't like trophy hunting either but it obviously improved the situation in many areas. More money going into the region to pay people to work and raise animals, it was a win for everyone except the outrage mobs online who cry about EVERYTHING.
@bobbygetsbanned6049 Жыл бұрын
Unrelated question: Since it’s known Africa is so huge fitting America, Europe Russia etc inside it, why is it scaled so small on all maps?
@watchnoface87704 ай бұрын
great fucking podcast
@TheMerts146 жыл бұрын
Well, how about just take funding to secure the land?
@CasiodorusRex4 жыл бұрын
Hunting is not needed to control animal populations. Deer were not numerous in the eastern USA before white settlers arrived.
@anttyzale54556 жыл бұрын
So they admit that trophy hunters just want the trophy and dont gaf about conservation bc they cant bring back something
@patrickdolan.4 ай бұрын
I primarily hunt whitetails and I always laugh at those outdoors shows where the "hunter" only shoots 200+" whitetails, but he's "hunting" for 10 minutes on a game farm and only cares about the rack... that to me is pretty pathetic, not to mention unrealistic unless you have money... But the other side of the spectrum are the hunters who shoot everything that walks by... that's not good for the wildlife either, nor is it sustainable for your freezer... There's gotta be a middle ground... when you can shoot a doe and a buck with your license, and then the state gives you a bonus doe tag for $10, and you can get one bonus tag per day, that destroys the deer population. Especially on public land... and then you get people not wanting to hunt because there is nothing to shoot...
@politicaljoe77884 ай бұрын
That's pretty cool that Luke Bryan is talking to Rogan again.
@alxra6 жыл бұрын
Although a fan of Joe, you really can't title and profess this to be the truth about trophy hunting" as it's a biased none evidence view, that does not include the huge corruption issue within hunting - as proven countless times and recently when yet another research collared elephant was shot by a hunter - such circumstances are clear violation of hunting ethics and legal practices and often involves bribed officials and local park staff. You also do not include the vast amounts of evidence and practices of non-hunting areas and game reserves who do not permit hunting, yet still succeed. Your view that hunting MUST stay is void because quite clearly it's working. When there are too many animals such as lions and elephants as you state, then again it's proven that other non-hunting methods work, for example translocation. Far too many holes in your view to go in to in one comment sadly.
@paul_tully6 жыл бұрын
Paul Tully Keep in mind that Rogan is a double face, he is agree with everybody as long as they are sitting next to him in his show. He could very well invite a wild life defenser in his next show, and telling the exact opposite of what he said in his previous show.
@maitederouet30386 жыл бұрын
I would agree with you but before watching this video I thought that this was a black and white issue. (Because indoctrination by left-leaning media, I guess). So this video helped bring me closer to “the truth”
@franfred126 жыл бұрын
Paul Tully Saying the video is not evidenced based is not accurate. If there's corrupt politicians or people in charge in these countries it doesn't matter if hunting is illegal or legal there will be poachers. Do you think if hunting was outlawed it would just stop happening in corrupt countries? I'm sure there are safari parks that are working and there are hunting parks that are working. The point should be if its working why change it. You seem to think because you hate hunting that it should be abolished, sorry but there's hunters out there. I could agree if it was failing and the only option to conserve was non hunting methods but clearly there's more than one way to conserve successfully.
@matts61396 жыл бұрын
@@matts6139 I totally agree with you but, I believe what you are trying to say in your last sentence is, "there's more than one way to dress a cat (feline) in fine, expensive clothing and teach him/her to speak French!"
@k1j2f30 Жыл бұрын
@@k1j2f30 Or a hunter might say there's more than one way to skin a cat.
@matts6139 Жыл бұрын
'pragmatically first, and then idealistically' ? Is this tenable? How about ethically first? hunters somehow figure they're bringing balance to the situation, unaware that balance in nature is inevitable, stay out of it, nature will be fine without you
@wildwildben6 жыл бұрын
If its about "love for the animals" why don't they donate the money without hunting? Right.
@Northern5tar6 жыл бұрын
NorthernStar Because how will they get money comparable to hunting simply out of good will? Who's gonna pay tens of thousands of dollars regularly for essentially nothing but "good karma"? Not to mention that paying some European/American fat cats to do your population control for you is killing two birds with one stone; after all even if they had a different source of money and didn't have organized hunting, they'd still need to control the population anyway. This system right here works, you have firearms both for hunting and protecting the animals from hunters, you get money from someone doing a job for you and you keep the land from becoming an unregulated hellhole.
@kiwi30856 жыл бұрын
The irony of a trophy hunter calling animal rights activists "psychos."
@royhay57414 ай бұрын
The problem is people don't lay down the rationale of hunting this way. Yes Cameron is here saying it but it should be explained on a more public stage. If hunting was explained this way to the general public you would swing more people. But when knee jerk defense and harsh words than the divide begins again.
@dinzonya6 жыл бұрын
"Americans are the only ppl that go hunting on a full stomach..."-Chris Rock
@ohdee9704 ай бұрын
Joe "His fat fucking house" Rogan
@PurposefulPorpoise5 жыл бұрын
I agree 100% But 5:10 they shoot elephant to protect there crop of starving people and let it rot? why dont they eat it if they are starving...Probably a misspoken thing Im sure.
@rabbithomesteading37976 ай бұрын
Keeping up with the Kardashians in Africa haha
@2inchfromtheground5 жыл бұрын
I'm confused. This group who charged several tens of thousands of dollars to hunt exotic game and did so successfully for forty years suddenly goes out of business over a law change that went down in a different continent in less than two years?? Could they not of charged less? Made better incentives to potential customers from other parts of the world or come up with some loophole for these loyal customers?
@NeuroticCorpse6 жыл бұрын
Seems the American market for trophies was too strong, furthermore no amount of price tweaking would have changed the fact that (without doing something really dodgy legally) the main reason Americans went there was outright banned.
@kiwi30856 жыл бұрын
www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-34116488 Summary: trophy hunting helps some areas but not all. Bans are bad, mmmkay
@doeyjiaz47986 жыл бұрын
You cant have 1st world people solving 3rd world problem ...thats savage
@lanceacejo57333 жыл бұрын
I LOVE these animals so much and have so much respect for them and know they are just absolutely beautiful and INCREDIBLY intelligent, aware, with very complex emotional and some times social intelligence like seen with wolves and elephants and orca. I know they are vastly more intelligent than either the VAST majority of people or even scientist give them credit for. I want them to have safe and proper habitat and to live the lives they are supposed to and be happy and free, and the hunting/big game system does BOTH. It serves very clear purposes and achieves them consistently. Take giraffes for instance. People got mad about one being killed on a game Reserve. Just flipped. Come to find out he was an old bull that couldn't mate any longer but was KILLING all the younger males that came into the area and it started to cause a problem. I mean after one old male who cant breed had killed two or three younger males in a pretty short time it was obvious he was a problem. How many babbies had the old bull prevented from being born just cause he was old, very experienced, and brutally violent. So what do you do in that situation? Just let him keep killing all these younger males that it kad taken YEARS AND YEARS for them to get to that point and then gone. He this one old pointless bull that can do nothing for the giraffe population, and is actually doing major harm to it, more important for some reason than the younger males? Id say he is far far less important taking all that into consideration and neede to be killed before doing even more damage. And was. Would these people have just let him keep killing all these younger males? Smh.
@bw040690 Жыл бұрын
Well on another note, if the people there werent exploited for cheap labor from big worldwide multi billion dollar companies then the poachers might not need to poach..
@patrickdolan.4 ай бұрын
I have to agree with Joe and his guest. But it does not explain the trophy ordeal. Everything they said can and does help and can be done without dragging back a trophy to the states. The information they speak of to help the animals numbers healthy is plausible without a trophy. But like they said, people aren't gonna pay lots of money to travel and hunt and not be able to bring home a trophy. And that's because humans have a selfish desire to only think about their own outcome and boasting and bragging rights and not just merely consumption.
@viking_sith_lord6 жыл бұрын
You’re a Viking Sith Lord, it should be obvious to you.
@bruhdon4748 Жыл бұрын
I like the unexplained statement because of hunting being banned that makes poaching possible. I understand it is hard to explain how africa's politics work and the part that we as foreigners should play and that is why sometimes we need to stop playing god when talking about other people. I don't say I know everything but think at this: 1 if the purpose of this hunters is to control the population why this whole range about not having a lion on their wall. And that rage comes from the need of being recognised as the next Rambo in your family. Keep in mind the fact that I consider hunting important but not for the purpose of sport but for saving the environment balance that we destroyed through agriculture and etc. Poaching will remain a problem because the animals hunted by the foreigners will not mean money in their pockets. So they will kill the remaining animals no matter if 400 elephants were legally killed (btw that argument that 'Africa is huge and elephants are everywhere' shows what kind of knowledge we have about the world- half of Africa is desert and like other animals elephants need water and also there are 400k elephants in total in Africa. And if u have a big number of elephants in one place and none in other places why not moving them. There are many organisations that do that but u know 'is better to have 10k from a fat ass American than a happy elephant in nature') 2 if we really want to make Africa a better place and stop saying hypocratic shit all day we have to identify the problem first. People hunt illegally because they need money to eat not to be rich or becoming the next Rambo in their village. People that hunt for sport have no fucking ideea how is like to say to your kids that they will not eat dinner or they can't go to school. In my eyes a man who illegally hunts to provide food for his family and money for education or a better life are more legible than legal rich people that hunt for sport. The solution is to make those poachers to hunt legal and replace the fat ass foreign hunters. This is how u solve a problem u take the lion head off the rich man's wall and u let an African to legally sell it and make money that will help him to destroy the poverty circle. Right now poachers exist and they will continue to illegally hunt because no money from the legally killed animals end up in their pockets. I don't have a problem with this podcast or expressing opinions but stop talking about things u don't understand. Try to be more humble. (sry for my spelling in advance)
@stefanraresmindirigiu17244 жыл бұрын
That's one of the main points. It's not just about the population of a certain species, but the fact that a human being is getting pleasure from killing an animal.
@acjohn69952 жыл бұрын
C v v. I v go by by g v.
@connorlanglais5651 Жыл бұрын
I will say this. Nevertheless all pragmatism (and I know it all, because I am a forester by profession) there still need to be people who are willing to kill animals under certain conditions. Let observe our western condititions for example. I know we need wild game regulation and I know it is a right thing to do. Still, I don't want to kill animals under this conditions. I will kill in survival situation. So, how should I look at hunter? Is he worse than me if he doesn't feel so much for animal as I do? I think not. He has his role in society, he can do it, I can't. End of story. He can be a good person I believe. They are not hidden demons.
@MrGoranPa5 жыл бұрын
I've hunted since I was 12, I've killed and eaten many animals. I cry more now than when I was younger over the taking of life. I also ask for forgiveness, while promising to use everything I possibly can to feed my family. I like many or most hunters take this responsibility very seriously.
@petematts6094 ай бұрын
People who hunt and eat their kills are great. Someone hunting just to bag an elephant and bring their tusks back are just rich douche bags. Joe has said many times that people hunting just for the trophy bragging rights are idiots and hurt the reputation of valid hunters. I love to hunt, and agree with Joe that trophy hunting is stupid. He has a hard time saying that to Cameron Hanes who will never call any kind of hunting bad.
@Videomikeh6 жыл бұрын
The douche bag shoots the elephant and takes home his trophy, but all the meat goes to local villages typically. The targeted elephants are usually being culled as nuisance animals causing crop damage and most likely would be shot by the villagers anyway. Why not let the douche bag pay the $50,000 to shoot that animal? I don't have a problem with this assuming the $50,000 goes for Wildlife conservation and not ending up in the pocket of some corrupt official. What say you?
@scottmontgomery45375 жыл бұрын
I agree that just leaving the body and not finding some way to use it is immoral but to be fair, all of us hunter do enjoy the hunt and most primarily go out there for the thrill of the hunt. Of course we enjoy the meat and/or pelts we get too
@monkeymode752911 ай бұрын
Joe "Shill" Rogan
@spidervenom146 жыл бұрын
There are so many anti hunters on here that don’t have the slightest clue what they’re talking about.
@italian1ist6 жыл бұрын
italian1ist < this guy gets it
@doeyjiaz47986 жыл бұрын
Anti needless killing.
@sh0cktim36 жыл бұрын
sh0cktim3 Anti needless killing? Do you eat meat?? Are you aware how animals are housed and processed for food? You’re exactly what I’m talking about and you just proved you’re ignorant to the subject
@italian1ist6 жыл бұрын
Colloquial Soliloquy the biggest contributors to wildlife conservation are in fact, hunters. It seems ironic that killing can protect more, but the system works similar to the southern US justice system. Taking out one or two can protect hundreds
@doeyjiaz47986 жыл бұрын
Colloquial Soliloquy If you dont want to look at quantifiable facts and statistics, engaging in a rational conversation, thats cool. You can just be a lame, whiney, PETA loser who cries about morality in 3rd world countries. Get your head out of your ass man
@doeyjiaz47986 жыл бұрын
Joe Rogan , please get Christiaan Bakkes on your show , next time he is in the States , he will tell u 100% of what is really happening in hunting trophies in Africa ,,,straight from the horses mouth my friend ,,,please ! ! ! !
@pietskiet87635 жыл бұрын
@JREClips how much money do you make off this youtube channel bruh
@Scanlan56 жыл бұрын
Google is your friend my guy. Learn the earnings for KZhead views, jobs, and estimates for all his other random sponsorships, etc.
@user-mq6kd6mf1v4 жыл бұрын
He makes enough money to help animals without killing them
@Youtubestolemyname999994 жыл бұрын
Saying that farmers would kill an elephant for destroying their crop and just let it rot is totally wrong! They would butcher it up to eat! And the meat could feed a small village! I don't know if this is a law or just a practice, but I seen videos where a hunter has shot an elephant and the local natives will totally butcher up the meat for the area, and use many parts of the elephant, so nothing goes to waste! As it should be! And the hunter gets his pics with the elephant and takes home the tusks! 🤔😁👍
@michaelmorrison48435 ай бұрын
Good points on both sides
@robinsonsuarez63346 жыл бұрын
Your both wrong about trophy hunting. When compared to eco tourism it's conservation value to the animals and monetary value to the local population is insignificant. "According to a report by the World Tourism Organization, wildlife-based eco-tourism generated an estimated $34.2 billion in tourist spending in 2013. In Zimbabwe, tourism provides 6.4 percent of the Gross Domestic Product of the country, dwarfing the meager 0.2 percent that trophy hunters provide." Those numbers are even larger today.
@zaskar704 жыл бұрын
Joe has a severe misunderstanding of how nature works. "The only way to keep the balance of predators, is humans" is a profoundly ignorant & incorrect statement. There are NUMEROUS ways that predator populations are kept balanced in wild ecosystems, such as: 1) Intra-species competition. In other words, wolves kill wolves, lions kill lions, etc. 2) Inter-species competition. Other predators, of different species, kill each other on the landscape. 3) Fecundity differences. Top predators typically have fewer offspring, and reproduce less often than other animals in the ecosystem. 4) Death by prey. Buffalo often kill lions, elk often kill wolves, etc. Hunting large prey is dangerous for the predators. 5+) Disease, Starvation, Infanticide, Injury, etc, etc , etc. This is well documented in the research, and this information has been available for decades. These guys just choose to ignore it, and consider their misguided opinions as "truth."
@GrantJohnsonHD4 жыл бұрын
It’s not to keep balance of predators it’s to keep balance of food 🤦♂️ that’s why you hunt so that the species doesn’t run out of food and kill itself off
@KC.8012 жыл бұрын
@@KC.801 BS
@siphomnisi38422 жыл бұрын
@@KC.801 trophy hunting doesn't provide any economic boost for natives. Also Africa is a very shitty continent when it comes to conservation
@siphomnisi38422 жыл бұрын
@@siphomnisi3842 are you dumb we know that when deer aren’t killed they overpopulate and eat all the food around and then they start dying off of starvation so why not keep that from happening by giving them a quick death before it happens rather than a slow in uncomfortable death after it happens this is why there are only a certain amount of tags they give out because they know how many deer there is and when there is too much they give out that amount of tags other problems with over population is a higher amount of car collisions with deer, zoonotic diseases they also disrupt other animal communities and eat away their habitat 🤷♂️
@KC.8012 жыл бұрын
elephants wreck everything they walk past.......
@CREvothegreater6 жыл бұрын
Is this mastercraft lobbying 🤔
@markwallace12517 ай бұрын
Hunting Elephants is wrong. They are highly intelligent creatures that are endangered. I've been to Africa and seen it myself, they are protected by locals because there are so many poachers.
@matthewwinke60436 жыл бұрын
8:51 learn to code
@Fahad-bd2pl4 жыл бұрын
Squared Circle it is
@Fahad-bd2pl4 жыл бұрын
Cam would kill the very last animal on Earth of an endangered species and then claim that it was ethical because it was a “nuisance” animal for the silliest reason, while mounting the trophy on his wall.
@poisonking2 жыл бұрын
I'm an angler, not a hunter, but I understand what he's saying. Us anglers are very protective of our game and its environment. It might seem counterintuitive to think that someone that hunts an animal also wants to protect them, but it's very much true. As an angler I am involved in conservation efforts because I want the fish that I love to catch to thrive and grow really big. I am very proud of our local lakes and river, I do what I can to keep it clean and beautiful. It makes sense to me that hunters likewise don't want to drive their favorite game to extinction. In a perfect world, Africa's resources are not being exploited and they have the revenue for wildlife conservation at taxpayer expense. Sadly, that's not the case. You can't get rid of hunter-based conservation without anything to takes its place and feel good about yourself.
@adjutant5 жыл бұрын
Yup. Here in Michigan. We had great hunting conservation and good numbers of whitetails. The last 10 years our gov has got greedy with selling tags and crop permits. There gread is going to cost them money in future. The deer hurd sucks in most places.
@dougvuillemot86704 ай бұрын
suddenly Americans care about Africa when it benefits them
@vincmayne6 жыл бұрын
Trophy hunting in Africa is not complicated. The truth is our animals are hunted for conservation as trophies and that money received goes to the communities. If you who are against trophy hunting please please, come and help the communities equal or more than what trophy hunting does for the us. Stop talking about things you don't know, come and see
@anthonygurirab82684 жыл бұрын
I love Joe Rogan but he's absolutely wrong about this one..... He tried to say the animals were going extinct before they made hunting legal lol the truth is the animals were going extinct until they put regulations on hunting the animals were being overhunted before and then they put regulations on hunting that stops them from going extinct acting like hunting and killing these animals is keeping them from going extinct is preposterous
@arxpharms9755 Жыл бұрын
I’m all for hunting for food and keeping populations in check but there are serious problems with the whole system especially with some of the wildlife people hunt for bragging rights it’s sad and fucked up like why
@Negative504 ай бұрын
Most trophy hunter are is sports. Correcting medals and reborn.
@kingjeremysircornwell78475 жыл бұрын
Jeremy Cornwell u mm what?
@sherifor32204 жыл бұрын
Outside of the animals that are high dollar scores for poachers, the land there is good for hunting or raising cattle, not much else. If you raise cattle you don’t want them to compete for resources with the native animals so you kill them off. Literally the only reason most of those animal populations still exists is because people hunt there.
@twva1264 ай бұрын
all these commenters sittin in their comfortable homes in the suburbs in america acting like they have all the solutions for endangered species in africa
@nddavi583 жыл бұрын
You guys are talking a hunting for food, not Trophy Hunting. I have no problem with people who hunt to survive, I get, people in Africa don’t have the option to go to the nearest McDonald and grab a Big Mac. But Trophy hunters DO. There is no need take another living being life for your own enjoyment. Think about it, they pay thousands of dollars to hunt animals. They have money to eat. It’s just murder.
@East92115 жыл бұрын
Hunting is as much a part of human DNA as procreating is. So to call a hunter a psycho pathic serial killer is rather puzzling to me. And further, for those that are saying that they don’t have a problem with somebody hunting if they process the meat and eat it themselves, it’s none of your business either way . If you’re going to enter the conversation, take the one thing you do that you believe is most fundamental to who you are as a human being, and consider the fact that hunters feel the exact same way about hunting as you feel about whatever activity it is that you’re involved in. if you have a proclivity for hunting, then there are a few things that are more fulfilling than harvesting an animal.
@benfranklinox31364 ай бұрын
pay africans the true value of the precious metals, oil and other natural resources you extract from them and they can afford their own wildlife conservation and not have to go looking for american charity
@bassekaman83156 жыл бұрын
Ozzy Bacchus read a book called The Looting Machine. Africa gets RAPED for it's resources.
@alansmith46556 жыл бұрын
Facts
@armandotrujillo88186 жыл бұрын
Have you heard the theory (proven) of supply and demand determining the market prices? Go check the oil prices on google - no one is selling oil below the market price.
@franfred126 жыл бұрын
Africa has been in control of it's own resources for ages and the money and power has been in oligarchs hands.
@MrYouarethecancer6 жыл бұрын
clearly you don't know how capitalism or charity works but I agree they should get more for their precious metals but then you would have to fix the government before that could work.
@julesverne25095 жыл бұрын
damn good point about conservation being financed by trophy hunters.
@twistedtrail84146 жыл бұрын
It is not legal hunting that is harming conservation. It's poaching.
@darrellowings23435 ай бұрын
No. Poaching is poaching. If you’re going on a trophy hunt that you paid legal money for, you will have a license, a guided tour, the meat will be spread amongst other villagers and the tens of thousands of dollars you spent will go directly into conservation.
@danijel20454 ай бұрын
@@danijel2045 Yea I said it's not legal hunting that's harming conservation its poaching.
@darrellowings23434 ай бұрын
@@darrellowings2343 oh I totally misunderstood what you meant. Sorry
@danijel20454 ай бұрын
Can we help people of Africa without killing the animals savagely ?? Let’s just keep all animals population healthy if it’s really required instead of killing them for your sick enjoyment for the so called legal hunting bc you’ve paid $$ to kill. That’s sick, man.
@superfly197515 жыл бұрын
Joe Rogan should talk about how Africa is not drawn to scale on the map! Its actually bigger than it is on the map.
@EliteClinicalResearch6 жыл бұрын
Greenland is double the size of brazil on maps but brazil has 4x the land mass
@lruddy88206 жыл бұрын
It’s crazy how the countries of color are made smaller
@EliteClinicalResearch6 жыл бұрын
It has nothing to do with countries of colour. It is related to the challenge of representing a (three dimensional) globe on a two dimensional map. Get yourself a beach ball, then cut it up and try to make lie flat.
@rothnieoosthuizen37286 жыл бұрын
360.here.com/2015/05/25/problem-projections/
@rothnieoosthuizen37286 жыл бұрын
A Mercator projection (what most people are familiar with) preserves the shape of landmasses, but skews the size of them. Its not some nefarious racist scheme, it is simply due to the fact that for navigation shape is more important than area.
@StaleDonutPictures6 жыл бұрын
If you choose to be a hunter, you deserve to know what it’s like to be hunted.
@bend59634 жыл бұрын
Are you against hunting?
@zacharymcnew9608 Жыл бұрын
@@zacharymcnew9608 for sport, yes. For survival, no.
@bend5963 Жыл бұрын
@@bend5963 is both an option?
@zacharymcnew9608 Жыл бұрын
If you choose to eat from a farm, you deserve to know what it’s like to be farmed
@monkeymode752911 ай бұрын
"There must be a better way!" Sure there is, you give all the money to a conservation effort, then feed yourself to the lion.
@rahn456 жыл бұрын
Feed the captured poachers to the lions then lost it on Twitter 😅. The lion get free calories and the potential poachers get message sent to them
@angrypredator27042 жыл бұрын
Lol people cry over 400 elephants but couldn't care less about a million Rwandans.
@nakedfreak15 ай бұрын
In Africa there where as many as 3-5 million elephants in the early parts of the 20th century. Since then that number has dropped to 415,000. Just because you say Africa is a big continent doesn't mean that A) there are lots of elephants to fill it, in fact about half of Africa has elephant ranges in it (the lower part), and they are VERY small pockets. And B) 5,000 may not seem like a lot but in comparison to the amount in each family pocket. Plus the environmental impacts they have, not to mention the intellect of these animals. It's not right to even think about killing that amount and say its a necessary evil that Americans come in and give money to kill X amount to save them, that's just a bullshit excuse. To also say that "Yes elephants are going extinct in some places"...WHAT?...WHAT?...No Joe, Elephants, the species, NOT A pocket of them, the species is going extinct. You can't say "birds are going extinct", because that takes into consideration the entire species, but when you say the 'Kakapo' is going extinct you are specifying a species of bird. What I am trying to say is that elephants as a species are going extinct, there may be different elephants, but they are all going extinct. I don't mind if you are hunting to control a population (like rabbits). Or to hunt for food if you are going to kill to eat the whole animal. But to kill for just the thrill and a trophy, it's barbaric
@surgicalglitch32656 жыл бұрын
You sound very passionate about the topic but you've clearly misunderstood the topic. I'd recommend you watch the 2017 documentary "Trophy". It's a very insightful look at what trophy hunting is really all about
@therambler37136 жыл бұрын
He talks about how 30,000 elephants are poached every year and about 400 elephants are hunted. Those 400 are creating funding to to help protect other elephants, if it wasn't for hunting, it would be more than 30,000 elephants poached every year
@michaelfurgiuele40316 жыл бұрын
I'm puzzled why all you anti Joe Rogan people post here. You're not funny, and on top of that, Joe doesn't read any of these responses. Go troll somewhere else, or better, yet, get a life. You trolls are sad.
@bigfatno6 жыл бұрын
Damn amarican farmers only cotta deal with raccoons foxes and shit abd over in "Africa there like damn it Martha the elements are in the corn field again"
@yashmandla1234 Жыл бұрын
It blows my mind that anyone would want to kill an animal for fun. What is the feeling? It must be sone kind of sick need to kill a living creature. I nean, there is very little skill involved. Those animals have zero défense. And then they want to bring home the skins to show off to their sick buddies. " oh man, you are so cool. You killed a lion. I want to do it too. It's my dream. I always wanted to kill a beatiful animal minding its own business trying to survive and find food to feed its cubs." I am so against that. It's just wrong, unless you need the neat to. Survive. The bull about eating the meat only counts for animals that are in abundance and will be killed anyway. But the thing that bugs me is the fact that people enjoy killing animals. How can it ge enjoyable? I once killed a squirrel,with a pellet gun when I was a kid. I never forgot how bad I felt. I saw a squirrel last week that stopped very close to me and stared. Of course he wanted food, but I immediately thought about that squirrel I killed. Animals are wonderful. Would a fun hunter kill a dog? I guess they will say no because they love dogs. Why love only dogs? Because they help you hunt? Watch the lion whisperer KZhead channel and tell me you want To kill lions or hyenas or leopards or any animal. Search for messi the puma and talk about hunting puma after that. People have deep,relationships with big cats and elephants etc. How can anyone kill them?
“You have to look at the problem pragmatically not idealistically”.... I think you hit the nail on the head. VERY well done I really enjoyed this video.
Most people don't know what "pragmatically" means.
This conversation reminds me of contemporary reports I have read about the devastation that could be inflicted by one flock of passenger pigeons back in the 19th century. I remember reading a magazine article from Iowa in which a farmer lost an entire field of grain in three days. No amount of shooting or beating could drive away the birds. They were described as rolling over each other like waves of water. I’m sure African farmers could relate.
I grew up around Hunters, I don't give a damn if people hunt as long as they dress, process, and consume the animal themselves. Or if they're literally controlling the population size so it doesn't get out of control. But hunting for the sake of [sport killing] to me is borderline serial killer Behavior.
what if the meat goes to locals though who need it?
Bill & Bill`s Gentlemans Club Nope, that's just a rationalization. The purpose is to kill for the sake of killing. It's not for survival nor is it to control the population.
Bill & Bill`s Gentlemans Club I'm from the south and they've had to toughen up the laws about disposing of the carcass of an animal because you had so-called Hunters killing Whitetail deer, taking the heads and just dumping the bodies along the side of the highway.
Local African's do not hunt lions or elephants or rhinos for meat. Yet US hunters proclaim them giving the meat as some life saving resource when it's actually not and the locals do not depend on it, they eat perfectly fine.
It is. Hunting for food is more considerate to the animal rather than buying from a store. But hunting for fun is completely psychopathic.
Great show ,I am sure a lot of people don’t realize this is how it works . Thanks Joe
Awesome podcast. Very informative and actually might have changed my mind on something i felt very strong about for a long ass time...
Yeah, trophy hunting is pretty gross, but it's objectively improved the situation for many animal populations and a lot of people's quality of life.
It takes a well developed person to keep an open mind on topics that you have strong feelings about. Personally I look at a trophy hunter as a moron. But don’t think pro wrestling should be banned either.
@@brettrussell3550 It’s pretty natural to be proud of a large or nice animal you’ve killed. But specifically hunting for trophies I will agree I think it’s sort of weird
@@DocHudson420it’s not weird at all. Hunting for trophies is the most valuable form of conservation. I’ve hunted around the US a little in BC and Argentina. When u go after the trophies it lets the young ones grow up. When u kill the young ones, it wipes out local populations. Just like white tails. Don’t kill all the spike bucks then only does run around and gets over populated.
I am a S.A. Ranger , what we are talking about with hunting to letting animals survive has two main reasons that helps conserving nature because that is what Rangers do. One is keeping populations on levels so that there is enough food for them to survive (we keep track of the food and water sources) , second is making money which is needed for the economy aswell for the reserves to survive, Hunters are tourists. To give a example , Elephants knock down trees, that is good for some animals that cannot reach trees but its bad for the girafe who needs living trees to eat. So to keep the Girafe alive we need to make sure we do not have to much elephants destroying trees, they willl have to be moved in some cases in other cases they will just get shot. The only things which is not allowed is going in to reserves to illegally kill endangered animals which happens on a daily bases , at that point you will play with your lives as fellow Rangers will confront you and arrest you or worse. But since ivory is worth more then gold per gram, there is a criminal syndicate that is running this business and coruption is wide spread. I have never hunted in my live and have no intrest in it, we live in a time where some animals have been reduced since we have been counting populations from a couple of 100.0000 animals to a couple of hundred in the world. The problem is the growing population and the fact that there is no controll, the rising population needs jobs , food and water , they need rescources. Those resources are slinking and with that instability is arrising , look at South Africa. And then you are surrounced by animals that are worth a lot, so you can imagine that protecting these animals from extinsion will become a war in the future.
Why is that ? everybody is entitled to his opinion but give me your reasoning ? I do not hunt or support hunting, i have taken an oath to protect endangered animals with my life if need be. SO i do not fully understand your comment ?
Most of the money made from these trophy hunters does not go to help the local villages or communities nor does it go to help with conservation. It goes into the pockets of greedy people. The white rhino is now down to 2 and when they die that species will be extinct. So tell me again how trophy hunting helps? I understand that poaching also contributes to animal extinct but still why trophy hunt when it is known that poachers are contributing to the dwindling numbers of particular species. These animals have maintained a balance for all these centuries with the help of mother nature why would they need a human's help now?
@@elizabethhuie563 They actually do help the population grow and it makes the reservation money to protect the creatures and a incentive to keep them alive and let them breed to increase the population. Also a lot of times they will kill the dangerous ones that can’t breed anymore or are too aggressive which makes their genes better. Finally, hunters can give their meat away to the locals.
You raise good points. However, anyone who gets enjoyment/pleasure from killing animals is a sadistic psychopath, they are no different than the crazy people who set cats and dogs on fire. Trophy hunting is mental illness. They kill off the strong while predators and natural forces kill off the weak. Humans harm things more than they help it.
@@elizabethhuie563 That is true , but reserves are privately owned pieces of land, companies anywhere on this globe do not share money with civilians over nothing. but it can generate jobs for villagers who would else have nothing. They can become poachers as well. everybody needs live and who doesn't want to be rich, some people will go further then other to reach that even if it means killing animals or people.
There are some places with too many humans, we should let the elephants hunt them.
ConicalReason can we start with Chicago, Detroit, new York, San Fransisco an LA?
great to see you value the lives of animals over humans. what a great person you are! hypocrite.
@Urban Student Prepper what proves that all animals are equal? IQ? Innovation? Civilization?
@Urban Student Prepper lol then what scientific proof do you have that all animals are equal? You just strawmanned all my points and used a personal insult.
@Urban Student Prepper And other animals eating humans doesn't make them superior
Read "Death In The Long Grass" by Peter Hathaway Capstick. It goes in-depth into this very conversation and that book is 45 years old.
Thanks Jamie for showing that website I have to make a speech on the matter and this website about the Cecil effect will help graciously because everything I talk about must be backed by a source
Hunt the poachers 😎
You realize that "poachers" are dirt-poor native Africans who live in straw and mud huts, with dirt floors, no plumbing, electric, who actually have to worry every day they wake up if their children are going to die of hunger, right? To say nothing of being able to save up enough money to have on hand if someone in their family gets sick or injured. It sure is easy to sit on your $1,000 electronic device, with a full belly, in a completely climate controlled 2,000 square foot home, knowing your very need and a majority of your wants are within your grasp at any moment, and criticize a person who likely does not have the means to feed themselves every day.
Sean Doherty Yeah the same dumbass poachers that saw off rhinos 🦏 horns and elephant tusks while being tranquilized and left to die. Fuck that. Why don’t you give some poachers your money since you care to respond. There’s no other way earn money but poaching fuck you. Lmao
Erik Clarkson if you where in there position you would do the same shit if you could kill a large game animal to make enough food and money to feed your family for months off of one animal that may have fucked up your crops may have killed your livestock or children disgusting how you sit one your device in a first world country judging people who struggle just to survive who aren’t even killing people
@@seandoherty4236 Don't care i'll collect their skulls to preserve Gods Creatures. Call it American Superiority but i just don't care about their Dirt Poor lifestyles they paid the price.
Sean Doherty oh, no... my house is over 3000 square feet. And... hunt the poachers... poachers kill rhinos for their horns (among other things). Do some simple research.
If you look at the Earth pragmatically, agriculture has caused the humanpopulation to grow explosively. Agriculture has made it possible for man to leave the way of the hunter & gatherer which unfortunately disrupts the natural balance. Don't get me wrong agriculture is great, but for humans only. The paradox is that the more food we create, the more the human population will grow and the more our population keeps growing, the more food we will need (read: the more natural wildlife and Jungle is converted into farmland. Untill our planet is nothing but cities and Farmland. By this time the biodiversity of our planet has been so diminished that nature is forced to push the reset button, or humanity will wipe itself out for having waged war over dwindling resources.
You’re right in pretty much every aspect .... technically. But you’re looking at humans as some species like it’s extremely close to the most intelligent of apes, etc. We can’t live like barbarians... and human development is almost always a cause some type anti-animal/earth development also.
Dereck and Beverly Joubert: When a male lion dies, his companion male (usually two or more males control and defend a pride of females) is left facing threats all alone. Incoming challengers, as in the start of The Last Lions, easily overwhelm the solitary male. So right there, we issue one lion license for hunting and the system suffers a loss of two. When new males take over a pride the first thing they try to do is dominate the female pride (the whole reason for all this) and their entire purpose for that is to mate and spread their genes. Functionally what has to happen to achieve that is to bring the females into estrous, and if they have suckling cubs the males have to kill those first. Old cubs from the dead male don’t make sense genetically either so they kill those. Prides average 8 females. Females average 4 cubs every 2 years. Depending on where we are in that two year cycle of breeding when the one male is hunted, and new males arrive, we could see 24 cubs killed, one older male (with a license attached) and another older male, and usually one female like Ma di Tau who resists and doesn’t make it. Death toll: round it down to 25 lions. Fees to government: for one male.
In short, trophy hunters are scumbags.
Clearly that's not what the park rangers have observed, they kept the reserves population of lions for 40 years.
Take Cecile the lion. He had one partner in his coalition (what the bands of males are called. Can be large groups and the biggest documented have been 6, 7, and one of even 8 I think. The six were famous. They came into an area, killed dozens of other males, killed many many dozens of cubs and ate them. Didnt stop there. They also killed many females. This one group of male lions DECIMATED the lion population of the Sabi Sands and around that area and held it for YEARS. Eventually another group of 5 younger bigger males moved into the area. Two of the six split one of the five off from the rest and killed him. The remaining four brothers figured out what had happened and tracked down the two over a LONG distance, brutally attacked and killed one on the spot and injured and chased the second a long ways. The second found his other brothers and went back to the area to chase off the younger males. The younger ones found the one they chased, tagged him, and two of the four held him as the other two attacked the rest and chased the other males out. They came back and all of them again brutally killed the one that had helped kill their brother and ate him. Fast forward they injured and chased off the remaining older males all of whom died from either the injuries or starvation pretty quickly after. The new males ruled the area for years after and brought about a massive boom in cubs, expansion of territory, and safety for the females and cubs. Basically they fixed what the big group before them broke. The moral of the story, lions themselves will do what we are talking about here, managing the population and dealing with problems ect, but it took way too long and permanently eradicated some very long standing female lines from the area that had been extremely successful for years, but the original males came in, killed thier males, killed the cubs, and then killes too many of the females themselves for the familial pride to continue. We could have stopped that and protected the numbers but weren't allowed to and it will be many many years before the issue is anywhere near being resolved in a good positive way. Also, its all about genes. Tge strongest genes win most of the time. And that's what happened in my story above. Anyways. Long story but yea. They war and kill each other on "mass" levels at times but that coalition of males was just super violent and destructive and should have been removed before they damaged the system so badly that it will take 50 years to recover. And last, if we do it the illogical, "animal rights" leftist way, the people living on the ground and poachers will absolutely eradicate the hunted species in their area. Elephants, rhinos, lions, leopards, ect will be just absolutely destroyed and WILL, not may, absolutely 100% WILL be hunted to extinction in very short time. Probably years, not even decades. So y'all get what you deserve, which is the exact OPPOSITE outcome you claim to want, if we put you plans and desires into action. It's just infuriating to me because I LOVE these animals so much and have so much respect for them and know they are just absolutely beautiful and INCREDIBLY intelligent, aware, with very complex emotional and some times social intelligence like seen with wolves and elephants and orca. I know they are vastly more intelligent than either the VAST majority of people or even scientist give them credit for. I want them to have safe and proper habitat and to live the lives they are supposed to and be happy and free, and the hunting/big game system does BOTH. It serves very clear purposes and achieves them consistently. Take giraffes for instance. People got mad about one being killed on a game Reserve. Just flipped. Come to find out he was an old bull that couldn't mate any longer but was KILLING all the younger males that came into the area and it started to cause a problem. I mean after one old male who cant breed had killed two or three younger males in a pretty short time it was obvious he was a problem. How many babbies had the old bull prevented from being born just cause he was old, very experienced, and brutally violent. So what do you do in that situation? Just let him keep killing all these younger males that it kad taken YEARS AND YEARS for them to get to that point and then gone. He this one old pointless bull that can do nothing for the giraffe population, and is actually doing major harm to it, more important for some reason than the younger males? Id say he is far far less important taking all that into consideration and neede to be killed before doing even more damage. And was. Would these people have just let him keep killing all these younger males? Smh. Last, the younger male lions in my story were known as the majingilane male coalition, and the coalition that caused so much damage and they finally displaced was known as the mopogo male lion coalition.
Joe "Thanos" Rogan!
HOW TO STOP POACHERS: 1. Make hunting poachers legal. Simple. Let the cannibals hunt poachers.
Grumpy Man are you slow
Grumpy Man, what? When have u been able to gun down poachers
Grumpy Man you made it sound like it’s legal to the common man to just go hunt poachers lol. There’s a specific context behind what you actually mean
Grumpy Man once again.. no.. all regulated based off literally anywhere. You make this sound so easy, look up the complexity of poaching laws in different countries (parts of countries) and then see how many of those places you’re allowed to kill poachers besides regulated areas owned by safari adventures, etc. You don’t just get a poachers license you tool.
They literally protect against poachers with american mercenaries and former SF guys
I hear the drums echoing tonight...
Does anyone know of a website that describes the negative aftermath of the whole Cecil the lion incident involving poachers and killing excess lions
Michael Savage put that bug in Trump’s ear when he had a sit down with him recently. I’m all for hunting and plan to get more into it myself as my sons get old enough. Not sure how I feel about big game hunting. I want to hear thorough arguments from both sides (about to listen to this video).
Deer is big game hunting
It bothers me too your soo right, I’m African and thank you 🙏🏾
This discussion is gospel. Unfortunately most people will not understand this until they’ve spent 2 months in the bush….but they never will. Yes, I am from rural Africa.
i only think bow hunting is fucking cool.. there is something weird about sitting in a fort with scoped gun waiting for an animal to cross you in the distance. but that bow requires so much skill that it looks like actual work for the prize.
Shooting people is cool too I guess for some people
There's just way too many examples that a great many hunters (possibly the majority) hunt primarily for the "thrill" of taking a life.
I hunt for many reasons.. I get a thrill out of it and afterwards i get free food. Whats wrong with that?
Thats because you're a pussy a weak man these men just want to do what God gave them a Hunting Instinct.
@@crispwhitesheets2175 He's not a pussy nor a weak man, his a real man with the soul of a thinker and a warrior. You and these man are pussies and weak man, God never gave them a hunting instinct, they have no hunting instinct, they are cowards that would pee in their pants if an animal would run towards them and scream to the hunting guides to save them while crying. Hunters are angsty parasites that would cry out of fear if someone actually slap them. They would immediately run to mommy police and have nightmares from the slap. God gave us empathy and wisdom to protect our animals, God never gave you anything but fear and inferiority complexes.
You try and fire a gun/bow at something living that could potentially harm you if you miss, or even if it doesn’t have the ability to hurt you it’s still a thrill & takes our mind and biology back to when we were Hunter gatherers, what do you want people to do? Not have an adrenaline dump? You can’t control something like that especially doing something that your instincts are useful for.
I 100% hunt for the thrill of the hunt primarily, not necessarily the kill itself but the whole process and connection with nature wrapped into one package. I use every animal I kill in some way and meat is a big part of it too but it ain’t my primary motivator
Ohhhhh Simba, don't kill Simba
Woo hoo number 2 . I've this show
Joe thank you for calling them rich overpaid murderers.........who kill not hunt...hunting is where the hunter picks up a couple of animal rubs or some animal tracks so as a hunter again pursues the path and then starts hunting
How do you think they find the animals
@Kurt E. Clothier yes you cannot i don't think you can hint out of a moving vehicle dumbass also you have to hunt on a hunting preserve you can't just shoot animals anywhere
@Kurt E. Clothier and you would know how did you do a internet search
@Kurt E. Clothier the only idiot here is you have you ever even hunted.......
The conversation about trophy hunting is not this black and white, on either side. As usual, there are other solutions available, not just A causes B -> no trophy hunting equals poaching. When we talk about crops destroyed or lions multiplying, we have to also talk about loss of habitat. We are too many people and putting up palm oil plantations is taking out big portions of natural habitat. Farmers have to find new areas to cultivate. Also when you put a lot of predators and a lot of prey in smaller areas than what they are meant to naturally live in, of course there will be consequences. Trophy hunting as an industry is not corruption free and some local communities do not benefit from it. There are reports from hard hit areas like Tanzania, where decline in elephant population has been vast, all elephant parts have been banned from commercial trade, however trophies fall outside commercial products listings. Also there are many varied measures taken in many local communities to protect their crops from elephants, f.ex. chilli/tobacco based deterrents. So if we want to talk about conservation/trophy hunting/poaching, let's talk about it as a whole, all the problems and solutions included and with neither side narrowing the solutions to fit 1 or 2 options. Africa is not some helpless continent that needs a western saviour. There are great inventions and a great working population there. Maybe we ought to talk about how to properly pay them for their work and support their work and creativity in equal measures to ours.
I can almost feel the food wasn't raised properly in any where near good conditions.Like you not only can taste it was confined to a small pen.It leaves you feeling nervous and full of anxiety lacking energy.You can see these chickens have been abused prior to slaughtering them.With the apparent bruising and broken limbs prior to water injections.
Kardashian’s in Africa, ha I’m dying 😭!!!!
Because that’s exactly what it is
Most people go on non-hunting luxury safaris which contributes more money and jobs to areas than hunting. Non-hunting safari companies also pay for anti-poaching teams. Non-hunting safari reintroduced rhinos back into parts of Botswana. Hunting on the other hand remove the strongest breeding males which is potentially detrimental to species. This is propaganda
If you knew what you were talking about you would know that hunting reserves specifically select for old or problem animals.
Its mental to think that we can think this way ( in our logic ) who the fuck do WE think we are....
Why don’t we make it fair and give the trophy hunters a spear against a lion and see how many they kill then
Maybe the lion should’ve evolved the skills and intellect required to wield and shoot a weapon.
Dude payed like 35k to kill cecil the lion and turns out they people he gave the money too didnt even have permits or license to kill it and they lured it illegally. If it hadn't been a famous lion with a tracker they wouldn't have been caught. Im sure the legal hunting isn't stopping poaching to that degree and numbers are little exaggerated. Idt joe would kill something unless he's eating it.
Tourism generates significantly more revenue than trophy hunting so better to focus on that and get tourism dollars flowing into more rural areas via tourism.
Can you back this up with some stats?
No
Imagine what would happen if America lost its power grid. 😮
Most of the animals killed for trophy hunting are large males (in the case of loins especially). When one of these ‘pride’ loin males is killed it has a huge effect on the social structure of the population with the new pride male which comes in killing many of the younger cubs. Yes trophy hunting may help the population growth, but it has to be done right and I don’t think selling the right to kill that animal to a fat rich American is the answer.
What is your answer then. It is easy to simply be anti. How would you support conservation in Africa?
Then what is? You got an answer? Everyone complains and acts superior, but no solutions ? The cubs die when the old males are ousted, by natural or human interaction.
they give facts on reasons it helps the ppl and animals but ppl don't wanna listen. don't wanna thays fine let's drop your ads and your family over there with no money and no job and see how you feel then.
I don't see an issue with trophy hunting as long as you're actually using the whole animal and not wasting it.
Citation on where the money went.
Early people to the americas mostly hunted to survive, food, clothes, tools, etc.
I don't like trophy hunting either but it obviously improved the situation in many areas. More money going into the region to pay people to work and raise animals, it was a win for everyone except the outrage mobs online who cry about EVERYTHING.
Unrelated question: Since it’s known Africa is so huge fitting America, Europe Russia etc inside it, why is it scaled so small on all maps?
great fucking podcast
Well, how about just take funding to secure the land?
Hunting is not needed to control animal populations. Deer were not numerous in the eastern USA before white settlers arrived.
So they admit that trophy hunters just want the trophy and dont gaf about conservation bc they cant bring back something
I primarily hunt whitetails and I always laugh at those outdoors shows where the "hunter" only shoots 200+" whitetails, but he's "hunting" for 10 minutes on a game farm and only cares about the rack... that to me is pretty pathetic, not to mention unrealistic unless you have money... But the other side of the spectrum are the hunters who shoot everything that walks by... that's not good for the wildlife either, nor is it sustainable for your freezer... There's gotta be a middle ground... when you can shoot a doe and a buck with your license, and then the state gives you a bonus doe tag for $10, and you can get one bonus tag per day, that destroys the deer population. Especially on public land... and then you get people not wanting to hunt because there is nothing to shoot...
That's pretty cool that Luke Bryan is talking to Rogan again.
Although a fan of Joe, you really can't title and profess this to be the truth about trophy hunting" as it's a biased none evidence view, that does not include the huge corruption issue within hunting - as proven countless times and recently when yet another research collared elephant was shot by a hunter - such circumstances are clear violation of hunting ethics and legal practices and often involves bribed officials and local park staff. You also do not include the vast amounts of evidence and practices of non-hunting areas and game reserves who do not permit hunting, yet still succeed. Your view that hunting MUST stay is void because quite clearly it's working. When there are too many animals such as lions and elephants as you state, then again it's proven that other non-hunting methods work, for example translocation. Far too many holes in your view to go in to in one comment sadly.
Paul Tully Keep in mind that Rogan is a double face, he is agree with everybody as long as they are sitting next to him in his show. He could very well invite a wild life defenser in his next show, and telling the exact opposite of what he said in his previous show.
I would agree with you but before watching this video I thought that this was a black and white issue. (Because indoctrination by left-leaning media, I guess). So this video helped bring me closer to “the truth”
Paul Tully Saying the video is not evidenced based is not accurate. If there's corrupt politicians or people in charge in these countries it doesn't matter if hunting is illegal or legal there will be poachers. Do you think if hunting was outlawed it would just stop happening in corrupt countries? I'm sure there are safari parks that are working and there are hunting parks that are working. The point should be if its working why change it. You seem to think because you hate hunting that it should be abolished, sorry but there's hunters out there. I could agree if it was failing and the only option to conserve was non hunting methods but clearly there's more than one way to conserve successfully.
@@matts6139 I totally agree with you but, I believe what you are trying to say in your last sentence is, "there's more than one way to dress a cat (feline) in fine, expensive clothing and teach him/her to speak French!"
@@k1j2f30 Or a hunter might say there's more than one way to skin a cat.
'pragmatically first, and then idealistically' ? Is this tenable? How about ethically first? hunters somehow figure they're bringing balance to the situation, unaware that balance in nature is inevitable, stay out of it, nature will be fine without you
If its about "love for the animals" why don't they donate the money without hunting? Right.
NorthernStar Because how will they get money comparable to hunting simply out of good will? Who's gonna pay tens of thousands of dollars regularly for essentially nothing but "good karma"? Not to mention that paying some European/American fat cats to do your population control for you is killing two birds with one stone; after all even if they had a different source of money and didn't have organized hunting, they'd still need to control the population anyway. This system right here works, you have firearms both for hunting and protecting the animals from hunters, you get money from someone doing a job for you and you keep the land from becoming an unregulated hellhole.
The irony of a trophy hunter calling animal rights activists "psychos."
The problem is people don't lay down the rationale of hunting this way. Yes Cameron is here saying it but it should be explained on a more public stage. If hunting was explained this way to the general public you would swing more people. But when knee jerk defense and harsh words than the divide begins again.
"Americans are the only ppl that go hunting on a full stomach..."-Chris Rock
Joe "His fat fucking house" Rogan
I agree 100% But 5:10 they shoot elephant to protect there crop of starving people and let it rot? why dont they eat it if they are starving...Probably a misspoken thing Im sure.
Keeping up with the Kardashians in Africa haha
I'm confused. This group who charged several tens of thousands of dollars to hunt exotic game and did so successfully for forty years suddenly goes out of business over a law change that went down in a different continent in less than two years?? Could they not of charged less? Made better incentives to potential customers from other parts of the world or come up with some loophole for these loyal customers?
Seems the American market for trophies was too strong, furthermore no amount of price tweaking would have changed the fact that (without doing something really dodgy legally) the main reason Americans went there was outright banned.
www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-34116488 Summary: trophy hunting helps some areas but not all. Bans are bad, mmmkay
You cant have 1st world people solving 3rd world problem ...thats savage
I LOVE these animals so much and have so much respect for them and know they are just absolutely beautiful and INCREDIBLY intelligent, aware, with very complex emotional and some times social intelligence like seen with wolves and elephants and orca. I know they are vastly more intelligent than either the VAST majority of people or even scientist give them credit for. I want them to have safe and proper habitat and to live the lives they are supposed to and be happy and free, and the hunting/big game system does BOTH. It serves very clear purposes and achieves them consistently. Take giraffes for instance. People got mad about one being killed on a game Reserve. Just flipped. Come to find out he was an old bull that couldn't mate any longer but was KILLING all the younger males that came into the area and it started to cause a problem. I mean after one old male who cant breed had killed two or three younger males in a pretty short time it was obvious he was a problem. How many babbies had the old bull prevented from being born just cause he was old, very experienced, and brutally violent. So what do you do in that situation? Just let him keep killing all these younger males that it kad taken YEARS AND YEARS for them to get to that point and then gone. He this one old pointless bull that can do nothing for the giraffe population, and is actually doing major harm to it, more important for some reason than the younger males? Id say he is far far less important taking all that into consideration and neede to be killed before doing even more damage. And was. Would these people have just let him keep killing all these younger males? Smh.
Well on another note, if the people there werent exploited for cheap labor from big worldwide multi billion dollar companies then the poachers might not need to poach..
I have to agree with Joe and his guest. But it does not explain the trophy ordeal. Everything they said can and does help and can be done without dragging back a trophy to the states. The information they speak of to help the animals numbers healthy is plausible without a trophy. But like they said, people aren't gonna pay lots of money to travel and hunt and not be able to bring home a trophy. And that's because humans have a selfish desire to only think about their own outcome and boasting and bragging rights and not just merely consumption.
You’re a Viking Sith Lord, it should be obvious to you.
I like the unexplained statement because of hunting being banned that makes poaching possible. I understand it is hard to explain how africa's politics work and the part that we as foreigners should play and that is why sometimes we need to stop playing god when talking about other people. I don't say I know everything but think at this: 1 if the purpose of this hunters is to control the population why this whole range about not having a lion on their wall. And that rage comes from the need of being recognised as the next Rambo in your family. Keep in mind the fact that I consider hunting important but not for the purpose of sport but for saving the environment balance that we destroyed through agriculture and etc. Poaching will remain a problem because the animals hunted by the foreigners will not mean money in their pockets. So they will kill the remaining animals no matter if 400 elephants were legally killed (btw that argument that 'Africa is huge and elephants are everywhere' shows what kind of knowledge we have about the world- half of Africa is desert and like other animals elephants need water and also there are 400k elephants in total in Africa. And if u have a big number of elephants in one place and none in other places why not moving them. There are many organisations that do that but u know 'is better to have 10k from a fat ass American than a happy elephant in nature') 2 if we really want to make Africa a better place and stop saying hypocratic shit all day we have to identify the problem first. People hunt illegally because they need money to eat not to be rich or becoming the next Rambo in their village. People that hunt for sport have no fucking ideea how is like to say to your kids that they will not eat dinner or they can't go to school. In my eyes a man who illegally hunts to provide food for his family and money for education or a better life are more legible than legal rich people that hunt for sport. The solution is to make those poachers to hunt legal and replace the fat ass foreign hunters. This is how u solve a problem u take the lion head off the rich man's wall and u let an African to legally sell it and make money that will help him to destroy the poverty circle. Right now poachers exist and they will continue to illegally hunt because no money from the legally killed animals end up in their pockets. I don't have a problem with this podcast or expressing opinions but stop talking about things u don't understand. Try to be more humble. (sry for my spelling in advance)
That's one of the main points. It's not just about the population of a certain species, but the fact that a human being is getting pleasure from killing an animal.
C v v. I v go by by g v.
I will say this. Nevertheless all pragmatism (and I know it all, because I am a forester by profession) there still need to be people who are willing to kill animals under certain conditions. Let observe our western condititions for example. I know we need wild game regulation and I know it is a right thing to do. Still, I don't want to kill animals under this conditions. I will kill in survival situation. So, how should I look at hunter? Is he worse than me if he doesn't feel so much for animal as I do? I think not. He has his role in society, he can do it, I can't. End of story. He can be a good person I believe. They are not hidden demons.
I've hunted since I was 12, I've killed and eaten many animals. I cry more now than when I was younger over the taking of life. I also ask for forgiveness, while promising to use everything I possibly can to feed my family. I like many or most hunters take this responsibility very seriously.
People who hunt and eat their kills are great. Someone hunting just to bag an elephant and bring their tusks back are just rich douche bags. Joe has said many times that people hunting just for the trophy bragging rights are idiots and hurt the reputation of valid hunters. I love to hunt, and agree with Joe that trophy hunting is stupid. He has a hard time saying that to Cameron Hanes who will never call any kind of hunting bad.
The douche bag shoots the elephant and takes home his trophy, but all the meat goes to local villages typically. The targeted elephants are usually being culled as nuisance animals causing crop damage and most likely would be shot by the villagers anyway. Why not let the douche bag pay the $50,000 to shoot that animal? I don't have a problem with this assuming the $50,000 goes for Wildlife conservation and not ending up in the pocket of some corrupt official. What say you?
I agree that just leaving the body and not finding some way to use it is immoral but to be fair, all of us hunter do enjoy the hunt and most primarily go out there for the thrill of the hunt. Of course we enjoy the meat and/or pelts we get too
Joe "Shill" Rogan
There are so many anti hunters on here that don’t have the slightest clue what they’re talking about.
italian1ist < this guy gets it
Anti needless killing.
sh0cktim3 Anti needless killing? Do you eat meat?? Are you aware how animals are housed and processed for food? You’re exactly what I’m talking about and you just proved you’re ignorant to the subject
Colloquial Soliloquy the biggest contributors to wildlife conservation are in fact, hunters. It seems ironic that killing can protect more, but the system works similar to the southern US justice system. Taking out one or two can protect hundreds
Colloquial Soliloquy If you dont want to look at quantifiable facts and statistics, engaging in a rational conversation, thats cool. You can just be a lame, whiney, PETA loser who cries about morality in 3rd world countries. Get your head out of your ass man
Joe Rogan , please get Christiaan Bakkes on your show , next time he is in the States , he will tell u 100% of what is really happening in hunting trophies in Africa ,,,straight from the horses mouth my friend ,,,please ! ! ! !
@JREClips how much money do you make off this youtube channel bruh
Google is your friend my guy. Learn the earnings for KZhead views, jobs, and estimates for all his other random sponsorships, etc.
He makes enough money to help animals without killing them
Saying that farmers would kill an elephant for destroying their crop and just let it rot is totally wrong! They would butcher it up to eat! And the meat could feed a small village! I don't know if this is a law or just a practice, but I seen videos where a hunter has shot an elephant and the local natives will totally butcher up the meat for the area, and use many parts of the elephant, so nothing goes to waste! As it should be! And the hunter gets his pics with the elephant and takes home the tusks! 🤔😁👍
Good points on both sides
Your both wrong about trophy hunting. When compared to eco tourism it's conservation value to the animals and monetary value to the local population is insignificant. "According to a report by the World Tourism Organization, wildlife-based eco-tourism generated an estimated $34.2 billion in tourist spending in 2013. In Zimbabwe, tourism provides 6.4 percent of the Gross Domestic Product of the country, dwarfing the meager 0.2 percent that trophy hunters provide." Those numbers are even larger today.
Joe has a severe misunderstanding of how nature works. "The only way to keep the balance of predators, is humans" is a profoundly ignorant & incorrect statement. There are NUMEROUS ways that predator populations are kept balanced in wild ecosystems, such as: 1) Intra-species competition. In other words, wolves kill wolves, lions kill lions, etc. 2) Inter-species competition. Other predators, of different species, kill each other on the landscape. 3) Fecundity differences. Top predators typically have fewer offspring, and reproduce less often than other animals in the ecosystem. 4) Death by prey. Buffalo often kill lions, elk often kill wolves, etc. Hunting large prey is dangerous for the predators. 5+) Disease, Starvation, Infanticide, Injury, etc, etc , etc. This is well documented in the research, and this information has been available for decades. These guys just choose to ignore it, and consider their misguided opinions as "truth."
It’s not to keep balance of predators it’s to keep balance of food 🤦♂️ that’s why you hunt so that the species doesn’t run out of food and kill itself off
@@KC.801 BS
@@KC.801 trophy hunting doesn't provide any economic boost for natives. Also Africa is a very shitty continent when it comes to conservation
@@siphomnisi3842 are you dumb we know that when deer aren’t killed they overpopulate and eat all the food around and then they start dying off of starvation so why not keep that from happening by giving them a quick death before it happens rather than a slow in uncomfortable death after it happens this is why there are only a certain amount of tags they give out because they know how many deer there is and when there is too much they give out that amount of tags other problems with over population is a higher amount of car collisions with deer, zoonotic diseases they also disrupt other animal communities and eat away their habitat 🤷♂️
elephants wreck everything they walk past.......
Is this mastercraft lobbying 🤔
Hunting Elephants is wrong. They are highly intelligent creatures that are endangered. I've been to Africa and seen it myself, they are protected by locals because there are so many poachers.
8:51 learn to code
Squared Circle it is
Cam would kill the very last animal on Earth of an endangered species and then claim that it was ethical because it was a “nuisance” animal for the silliest reason, while mounting the trophy on his wall.
I'm an angler, not a hunter, but I understand what he's saying. Us anglers are very protective of our game and its environment. It might seem counterintuitive to think that someone that hunts an animal also wants to protect them, but it's very much true. As an angler I am involved in conservation efforts because I want the fish that I love to catch to thrive and grow really big. I am very proud of our local lakes and river, I do what I can to keep it clean and beautiful. It makes sense to me that hunters likewise don't want to drive their favorite game to extinction. In a perfect world, Africa's resources are not being exploited and they have the revenue for wildlife conservation at taxpayer expense. Sadly, that's not the case. You can't get rid of hunter-based conservation without anything to takes its place and feel good about yourself.
Yup. Here in Michigan. We had great hunting conservation and good numbers of whitetails. The last 10 years our gov has got greedy with selling tags and crop permits. There gread is going to cost them money in future. The deer hurd sucks in most places.
suddenly Americans care about Africa when it benefits them
Trophy hunting in Africa is not complicated. The truth is our animals are hunted for conservation as trophies and that money received goes to the communities. If you who are against trophy hunting please please, come and help the communities equal or more than what trophy hunting does for the us. Stop talking about things you don't know, come and see
I love Joe Rogan but he's absolutely wrong about this one..... He tried to say the animals were going extinct before they made hunting legal lol the truth is the animals were going extinct until they put regulations on hunting the animals were being overhunted before and then they put regulations on hunting that stops them from going extinct acting like hunting and killing these animals is keeping them from going extinct is preposterous
I’m all for hunting for food and keeping populations in check but there are serious problems with the whole system especially with some of the wildlife people hunt for bragging rights it’s sad and fucked up like why
Most trophy hunter are is sports. Correcting medals and reborn.
Jeremy Cornwell u mm what?
Outside of the animals that are high dollar scores for poachers, the land there is good for hunting or raising cattle, not much else. If you raise cattle you don’t want them to compete for resources with the native animals so you kill them off. Literally the only reason most of those animal populations still exists is because people hunt there.
all these commenters sittin in their comfortable homes in the suburbs in america acting like they have all the solutions for endangered species in africa
You guys are talking a hunting for food, not Trophy Hunting. I have no problem with people who hunt to survive, I get, people in Africa don’t have the option to go to the nearest McDonald and grab a Big Mac. But Trophy hunters DO. There is no need take another living being life for your own enjoyment. Think about it, they pay thousands of dollars to hunt animals. They have money to eat. It’s just murder.
Hunting is as much a part of human DNA as procreating is. So to call a hunter a psycho pathic serial killer is rather puzzling to me. And further, for those that are saying that they don’t have a problem with somebody hunting if they process the meat and eat it themselves, it’s none of your business either way . If you’re going to enter the conversation, take the one thing you do that you believe is most fundamental to who you are as a human being, and consider the fact that hunters feel the exact same way about hunting as you feel about whatever activity it is that you’re involved in. if you have a proclivity for hunting, then there are a few things that are more fulfilling than harvesting an animal.
pay africans the true value of the precious metals, oil and other natural resources you extract from them and they can afford their own wildlife conservation and not have to go looking for american charity
Ozzy Bacchus read a book called The Looting Machine. Africa gets RAPED for it's resources.
Facts
Have you heard the theory (proven) of supply and demand determining the market prices? Go check the oil prices on google - no one is selling oil below the market price.
Africa has been in control of it's own resources for ages and the money and power has been in oligarchs hands.
clearly you don't know how capitalism or charity works but I agree they should get more for their precious metals but then you would have to fix the government before that could work.
damn good point about conservation being financed by trophy hunters.
It is not legal hunting that is harming conservation. It's poaching.
No. Poaching is poaching. If you’re going on a trophy hunt that you paid legal money for, you will have a license, a guided tour, the meat will be spread amongst other villagers and the tens of thousands of dollars you spent will go directly into conservation.
@@danijel2045 Yea I said it's not legal hunting that's harming conservation its poaching.
@@darrellowings2343 oh I totally misunderstood what you meant. Sorry
Can we help people of Africa without killing the animals savagely ?? Let’s just keep all animals population healthy if it’s really required instead of killing them for your sick enjoyment for the so called legal hunting bc you’ve paid $$ to kill. That’s sick, man.
Joe Rogan should talk about how Africa is not drawn to scale on the map! Its actually bigger than it is on the map.
Greenland is double the size of brazil on maps but brazil has 4x the land mass
It’s crazy how the countries of color are made smaller
It has nothing to do with countries of colour. It is related to the challenge of representing a (three dimensional) globe on a two dimensional map. Get yourself a beach ball, then cut it up and try to make lie flat.
360.here.com/2015/05/25/problem-projections/
A Mercator projection (what most people are familiar with) preserves the shape of landmasses, but skews the size of them. Its not some nefarious racist scheme, it is simply due to the fact that for navigation shape is more important than area.
If you choose to be a hunter, you deserve to know what it’s like to be hunted.
Are you against hunting?
@@zacharymcnew9608 for sport, yes. For survival, no.
@@bend5963 is both an option?
If you choose to eat from a farm, you deserve to know what it’s like to be farmed
"There must be a better way!" Sure there is, you give all the money to a conservation effort, then feed yourself to the lion.
Feed the captured poachers to the lions then lost it on Twitter 😅. The lion get free calories and the potential poachers get message sent to them
Lol people cry over 400 elephants but couldn't care less about a million Rwandans.
In Africa there where as many as 3-5 million elephants in the early parts of the 20th century. Since then that number has dropped to 415,000. Just because you say Africa is a big continent doesn't mean that A) there are lots of elephants to fill it, in fact about half of Africa has elephant ranges in it (the lower part), and they are VERY small pockets. And B) 5,000 may not seem like a lot but in comparison to the amount in each family pocket. Plus the environmental impacts they have, not to mention the intellect of these animals. It's not right to even think about killing that amount and say its a necessary evil that Americans come in and give money to kill X amount to save them, that's just a bullshit excuse. To also say that "Yes elephants are going extinct in some places"...WHAT?...WHAT?...No Joe, Elephants, the species, NOT A pocket of them, the species is going extinct. You can't say "birds are going extinct", because that takes into consideration the entire species, but when you say the 'Kakapo' is going extinct you are specifying a species of bird. What I am trying to say is that elephants as a species are going extinct, there may be different elephants, but they are all going extinct. I don't mind if you are hunting to control a population (like rabbits). Or to hunt for food if you are going to kill to eat the whole animal. But to kill for just the thrill and a trophy, it's barbaric
You sound very passionate about the topic but you've clearly misunderstood the topic. I'd recommend you watch the 2017 documentary "Trophy". It's a very insightful look at what trophy hunting is really all about
He talks about how 30,000 elephants are poached every year and about 400 elephants are hunted. Those 400 are creating funding to to help protect other elephants, if it wasn't for hunting, it would be more than 30,000 elephants poached every year
I'm puzzled why all you anti Joe Rogan people post here. You're not funny, and on top of that, Joe doesn't read any of these responses. Go troll somewhere else, or better, yet, get a life. You trolls are sad.
Damn amarican farmers only cotta deal with raccoons foxes and shit abd over in "Africa there like damn it Martha the elements are in the corn field again"
It blows my mind that anyone would want to kill an animal for fun. What is the feeling? It must be sone kind of sick need to kill a living creature. I nean, there is very little skill involved. Those animals have zero défense. And then they want to bring home the skins to show off to their sick buddies. " oh man, you are so cool. You killed a lion. I want to do it too. It's my dream. I always wanted to kill a beatiful animal minding its own business trying to survive and find food to feed its cubs." I am so against that. It's just wrong, unless you need the neat to. Survive. The bull about eating the meat only counts for animals that are in abundance and will be killed anyway. But the thing that bugs me is the fact that people enjoy killing animals. How can it ge enjoyable? I once killed a squirrel,with a pellet gun when I was a kid. I never forgot how bad I felt. I saw a squirrel last week that stopped very close to me and stared. Of course he wanted food, but I immediately thought about that squirrel I killed. Animals are wonderful. Would a fun hunter kill a dog? I guess they will say no because they love dogs. Why love only dogs? Because they help you hunt? Watch the lion whisperer KZhead channel and tell me you want To kill lions or hyenas or leopards or any animal. Search for messi the puma and talk about hunting puma after that. People have deep,relationships with big cats and elephants etc. How can anyone kill them?