ZAPPI EV CHARGER installation UK - It WASN'T easy - find out WHY
A home EV charger installation is a trade-off between where you can park an electric car and where the power supply to the property is located.
In this project, we only had one realistic option and that was the furthest point from the consumer unit. See how we solved the electrical installation challenges.
===== TIME STAMPS ==============
00:00 Zappi EV charger installation
00:40 A difficult electric vehicle charger installation
01:50 Myenergi Zappi 2 charger with PEN fault protection
02:30 Myenergi Harvi wireless current transformer
02:55 Mounting EV charger - special mounting post.
03:40 Choosing a cable route
06:14 Hiding the armoured cable
07:18 Cable route under the floor
08:10 Thinking about network connectivity
09:50 Myenergi Eddi as part of the ecosystem
11:00 Changing the consumer unit
11:40 Harvi current transformer installation.
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#efixx #evcharging
I’ve been recommended these guys’ shorts a lot and they’re wholesome and fun
Cheers - wholesome - nice word 👍
Install loads of EVs and this is a difficult job well done. Brilliantly presented as always guys.
Cheers Mark - We will watch you do the next one😅
@@efixx I usually watch Matthew then step on camera to take the credit 🤣
@Mark Allison 😆😆😆
I would love to say "Brilliant Job Lads" but, you only came along when all the work was completed. Ross has done has done a lovely Job on the install. The client must be well pleased. Thanks for sharing guys.
We like watching a skilled craftsman 😆😆😆
Interesting to find out about the galv trunking outside as we have seen galv trunking rust in less than six months indoors in a stone masons unit. Even have pictures as shocked how bad.
We will hear about it if it becomes a problem! Stay tuned!
What stone was he cutting? Wonder if it was quite a caustic environment, I've seen lime plaster make stuff rust in under a week
@@TheFool2cool Marble which which I thought was a neutraliser? Also I think the Galv rusted in weeks but only in one length / patch which is very odd. With it being up high it would only possibly getting a mist. Just curious to see what happens in this use after the dog possibly adding to the environment ;)
@@efixx Any update?
@@Electronics-Rocks marble is calcium carbonate, which is indeed basic in a wet solution. And in a stonecutter, it’s almost certainly being cut cooled by water… which means you’re basically spraying a basic solution onto the steel. One environment where I suspect a plastic conduit/trunking is waaaaaay better.
Good series, very informative.
Multi skilled job, well done.
Definitely done a grand job of that lads 👌🏼
Very interesting video team, well done.
Thank you for this video.Great workmanship and attention to detail. Well done.
Thanks
What was the Galv trunking fixed to? The decking/patio slabs on the floor. Planning a route through a flower bed, and want to avoid digging it up if possible. Would I be able to run it on short stakes, just off the floor?
Great video thanks! I'm in a new build with 6mm to an external garage. Are you saying this is adequate for a zappi? Thanks.
Good video of a tricky install. Did you need to provide RCD protection for the 6mm T&E - I guess you could keep it more than 50mm from the floor and ceiling but was the metal capping in the wall chase 3mm thick? If you did provide an RCD, did you go for a time delay to give selectivity to the zappi's inbuilt one?
The RCD only protects what is downstream from it, so the integral RCD in the Zappi only protects from electrocution on the output of the Zappi, ie. The cable down to the car. For me personally, I would want to see an extra RCD providing protection for the cable input to the Zappi. So the idea that both may trigger together when a fault occurs at one point and you want one particular RCD to trigger before another is flawed. You want both RCDs to trigger as quickly as possible and within the required time, as they protecting different parts of the circuit.
Fantastic, informative video as always guys, thanks. My EV charger point install is similar, with power supply to front of house, CU at that end of property, 9m of cable run in the house and a further 24m to the garage at the rear of the property. A few questions if I may, Is it worthwhile running 10mm T&E for the internal cable? The internal cable therefore has a separate Cat5e/Cat6 cable, what separation under floor is needed from the 240v? If not using Ultra EV outside does The separate armoured Cat5e need to be clipped separate to the 6mm armoured 240v? Much appreciated.
If you use a data cable rated at the same voltage as the power cable they can be run together. - although they can be tricky to find. Cable also needs to be suitable for outdoor use - resistant to UV etc
This goes to highlight the issues so many people will potentially face with doing an EV install. And how do you do that for someone who lives in a block of flats? Or how do you do it for someone who has to park their car on a public street who does not have their own driveway or cannot park close? Its going to be massively disruptive to many people. Its going to be similar to the availability of a reasonable interweb connection as to choosing a property - can I sensibly plug my car in to charge it?
Good points - Solutions are emerging for all these issues - from community EV hubs to electric filling stations - however charging at home will be the cheapest option.
There are lots of issues. The 300Mil that the government recently announced is nothing. It needs billions investing for the infratructure to be ready as more peeople can transition accross to electric - forced possibly by the bans on petrol and diesel cars. This, not helped by the wanting to phase out of gas boilers - more load on to the grid that already struggles in a cold winter. It won't be a massive instant change but over several decades as some properties are demolished and re-built it will. With climate change and warmer summers is there going to be an increased use of air conditioning? Micro solar home generation is OK providing your car is at home to charge it. If its in a factory or office car park, then you are reliant on the grid again to source your power, unless you can afford a suitable energy store aka battery to store it for later use. Teslas powerwall for example is 13.5kwh. Not enough for a full vehcile charge (not everyone will need that). Plus you always loose/waste energy in the storing and transportation process. Not everyone needs to charge it every day. And the battery technologies etc are improving all the time. Governments around the world need to be looking far more at how to deal with the problem as a whole - not just the individual issues. Its going to lead to properties that are just not going to lend themselves to home charging - victorian terraces for example. A bit like the broadband divide. And all of this assumes you can charge your vehicle on your own property. If you can't then you are going to have a limited housing appeal. What if you can't guarantee to park outside your own house to use your own charger? Not to mention electricity theft through unauthorised use of charging points. And also the local low life unplugging your vehicle part charge or wanting to steal your charging cable. EV's will need to have a tax of some sort. At the moment its 5% for energy taken from the grid. Kwh used per km would seem a good starting point. Electricity costs are going to go much higher - its got to come from somewhere to put it in to the grid. At some point we are all going to have to pay for the infrastructure to support this all. I don't see it remaining a cheap way of travel for long as the infrastructure is developed to cope. Don't get me wrong - we are going to have to make the transition - we moved mainstream from horse and cart, to steam, to petrol/diesel and now to electric but its going to be far from an easy process.
I have noticed in liverpool streets with terraced houses they have put charging points on lamp posts , it's a start but a long way from a charger for every car
I feel you pain there. For now, people living in some blocks of flats, (if not the majority of blocks of flats) are screwed up. Some management companies have no knowledge whatsoever about this issue, and the ones trying to help, already want to change an arm and a leg just to try and gather info on how to install EV chargers in a block of flats. I spoke to an electrician another day and he told me that in order to have EV chargers for each flat in a block of flats, the block of flats need to apply for a permission from the grid in order to install new power supply all due to the power demand that it will be needed to charge all the vehicles in a block of flats. Plus some management companies want all flat owners/lease holders to agree in order to go ahead and have EV chargers installed. Now, knowing how it is near to impossible to have all lease holders to agree about something, good luck.
Totally agree. Its going to require a lot more thought. As for charging in liverpool? It'll not just be the wheels that get knicked it'll be the copper from the charging leads as well
How did you fair with the smart hub talking to the zappi with the 30m distance did it work wirelessly through the Harvi?
Well that was a whistle stop tour of the install - I felt fatigued after watching it. 🤪 A couple of questions though. To what did you affix the trunking? The fence wasn't appropriate, so I'm wondering if you still affixed to the fence posts but lower down. To what did you secure the especially made EVC bracket? Mention was made of securing it into the ground (sorry if I've misunderstood that), but from the fleeting glimpses of the pavement, it looked like block paving, so what did you affix to that was relatively immovable?
Thanks John - the trunking is fixed down to the stone flags and the decking. We assume it would be re-routed under if either are changed. The post to fixed to the concrete channel drain which runs parallel to the fence. The fence is not much more sturdy!
Another great clear video! What happened to the CAT 5 cable, was it jointed in the wiska box and then where did it end up getting run to if you used a wireless CT? Keep up the great work
It’s in the Wiska box and can be jointed if needed on a future upgrade.
Great video. I liked the idea of using of using trunking along fence. One could have installed stainless steel trunking!
Thanks - Stainless would probably cost more than the charger 😂
Good vid how much did it cost all in
Quality job guys. Did you earth the capping lid? It wasn’t mentioned in the video and as the Zappi has a built in A type RCD the supply circuit wouldn’t be RCD protected 🤔
chances if damage are low with swa so in my book the lid won't need any further earthing as if supply is tncs you could make earthing the lid worse.
if you refer out to a video, kindly place a link in the description. Thanks
Great video boys, Did the new ev circuit go on its own rcbo or mcb in the board? What size and type?
Yes 32A type A RCBo
Excellent video, good option to hardwire the CT’s clamps. I believe the Harvi is restricted to 65amp at the moment.
Great video. Again showing why businesses who expect guys to bang in 2 a day for the price of the OZEV grant is a fools errand. Well done. I like the black galv trunking through the garden.
Thanks - It was an epic install!
This kind of video is why I subscribe. Top drawer action.
Cheers Brian
Where can I buy that cable? What's the name .thank you. Great vedio
The Harvi can be mounted on the side of the house where the Zappi is and extend the Harvi CT wiring with CAT 5/6.
This would require the harvi being placed in an IP rated box as the harvi itself is not IP rated and is for indoor installation only.
Fantastic job, just wondering how much an installation like this costs. I will have to have something similar done in the near future although not quite as drastic and would like an idea to see if I need to take out a second mortgage.
This install would have been around £2 - £2.5k
Hey guys great video. This is a very similar install to how my house would be. My question is my garage is at the bottom of my garden with a consumer unit installed already. If I were to upgrade this to meet current regs could I supply an ev charge point from it? Thanks
Yes but it all depends upon the existing cable size. The Zappi can be configured with additional CTs to load share / shed with the other equipment in the garage - so eg it would reduce the charging current if a tumble dryer was in use.
@@efixx thanks for the reply. The supply cable to the garage is 10mm armoured so should be fine
Jeezus! If my property was configured like that I would have the unit, even if it was capable of being isolated, inside my property - on the gravel section, for instance - to avoid vandalism etc, and loop the cable over/through the fence when charging the EV. Use a doored cage, or similar, to protect it from the dog!
Its a private road
@@efixx ❓Unless ‘gated’, private roads, can regrettably, be easily frequented by anybody. They are merely roads which have not been adopted by the local council, thus their upkeep is the ‘private’ responsibility of the property owners on that ‘road’.
Great Video Guys!
Thanks Jordan
I love watching your videos. Im in the US. An Electrician of over 30 years. My company does mainly commercial and industrial work. So the cable you're using to feed this car charger is a common cable used for any application, or only this charger??
Thanks for watching in the US and commenting about the cables system 👍🏻
The cable was developed for the EV charger market -but is suitable for other applications - garden office being one of them.
Is there an issue with selectivity if the 6mm twin and earth needs 30mA RCD protection at the consumer unit? Is there another 30mA RCD downstream at the Zappi charger?
A few folks have asked this - we will produce a dedicated video exploring the issue - thanks 🙏
It might be worth mentioned that the Harvi cannot be used for wireless load management. All load management systems must be hardwired the harvi can only be used for solar purposes.
Absolutely correct. I was thinking the same thing. It wasn’t made clear. It’s currently not compliant with G100 to use wireless ct for load management. Solar only.
I did find the video interesting as I mostly deal with industrial now a days.
Is there a risk with that consumer unit of something knocking it off the wall (thinking furniture being carried upstairs or even someone falling down)?
It’s got robust fixings - but not the best place to locate a consumer unit.
Ok good vid If I ran the cable on a similar installation and purchased the charging unit could I just get a spark to connect the ends would this still reach regs
Most electricians aren’t keen on signing off another persons work. Best to talk with an electrician first and agree a plan. To get the OZEV grant you need to use a OZEV registered installer.
I wonder why didn’t you install on a ev post the ev charger? Instead of installing on fence post? What if the fence needed to be replaced or repaired in the event of storm destroying the fence post and the fence?
I find it interesting to see the ev cable with the integrated network cable. How does this work with the separation you are supposed to have between power and data?
It’s a screened Cat5e cable and it’s just used in the Zappi for the current signal flowing in to the property. If it was required for internet connectivity the data rate required is low so speed loss due to any interference wouldn’t be a big issue.
@@efixx thanks for the explanation. Makes a lot of sense now
At a constant, fixed distance from balanced line and neutral conductors there should be negligible induced currents. And protected by the SWA not much will come in from the outside either.
Awesome video guys 😎
Cheers Richard
The custom Steel pole surely provides a handy Earth ? Should one feel the need.
I was always told never run dater cables along side mains cable as the mains can Couse interference problems that's why TV areal cable a telephone lines are kept separated .
It’s shielded and twisted pair - plus it’s comma to an EV charger not a NASA base so no real issue.
Hi guy's do you have a video on the same concept for Installation only with the solar panels going to pylontech batteries? Or is it almost identical to this video,am I looking at bigger challenges because of the batteries etc? Anyone know let me know, thank you
We’ve got lots of solar content coming soon
Nice job! How much would all this cost? 💷
Video coming soon - but in short a lot more than the £300 you see advertised
And how much time did your spend doing it? Also what brand of consumer unit did you fit, looks rather smart!
Top job lads, but how much did this cost the customer.....One kidney or two? Also, how much is the swa with added data per m...What a great idea.
This was a chunky install due to changing the consumer unit etc so two kidneys and a few pints of blood- The EV ultra cable is around £5 a meter (copper price dependant) - available via Yesss , Replenishh or TLC
So what happens if my neighbour in property no.2 (@4:00), gets a charger installed? will my incomer get overloaded, and I'll get power dips? So I have to call an electrician or the DNO, and there is actually nothing wrong with my installation at all. DNOs should be required to go round unlooping supplies and upgrading to 100A before everyone starts buying e-vehicles....
The installer at property no.2, won't have known they were on the end of the loop
Great vid chaps
Out of curiosity, why didn’t you change the consumer unit yourselves ?
Timescale on this project and we are starting to feature more contractors on the channel to help them grow their businesses.
@@efixx ah fair enough, thanks for the reply 😊
I do not understand why a fence is not considered permanent? You fixed the lights to it so why not the EV cable. World has gone mad. A flat roof might only have a warranty for 20 years. Much like a fence post. 🤦♂️
If the fence post was properly constructed and didn’t wobble then it may have been okay - but it wasn’t.
Looks like a nightmare when something goes wrong in that house..........as well as bloody expensive. The consumer unit in the hall looks like a suitcase stuck on the wall, you'd think house designers could easily hide this away elsewhere at the design stage
We take a 4” slice & replace with a floorboard with cross-sections under for support. I should really make a vid of it 😂
What did he plaster this with? Screed???
At least he didn't use his hands.
@@efixx this had me howling
Really good vid
Thanks Richard
The title is misleading as it makes it sound like the Zappi made the installation hard and not, as it turned out, the location the client had chosen for it to be installed.
See the first video in the series - kzhead.info/sun/qtKmh5qPcJxuY4E/bejne.html
@@efixx that explains the location but still not Zappi specific issues.
It’s a difficult installation regardless of the charger type.
Costs please ??? Looks very very expensive to me .
The outside meter cabinet is for Distribution network operators and meter operator only. It’s not for fitting customers monitoring equipment. You shouldn’t be fitting anything inside there.
Not necessarily true. Northern Powergrid site explicitly says customer equipment can be fitted in the meter cab.
You could put the cable around and plug it in and then you could plug it into your car
I think people try to over complicate things, it's just another circuit, it's no different from a shower circuit or any other circuit, companies jump on the band wagon and because that's all they fit they declare themselves experts. Personally I would not have run the swa with data, I would have probably opted for a wireless access point either in that bedroom or outside, that would have given better WiFi upstairs and outside, then would have looked at utilising the airing cupboard, and possibly have run the swa through the loft as well, depending if the customer was ok with it. That trunking will be full of all sorts in a few months. Another thing I would have done, was use white plaster, blends in better, it looked like he had notched the bottom of the joist, with that type, you are not meant to cut into the flange, I didn't notice any plate over it as it wasn't 50mm from the bottom.
The data is this case is for the CT (if we use it) - Zappi uses it’s own wireless protocol. The property doesn’t have a front to back loft due to one of the floors being in the roof. The joists above the consumer unit are traditional timber. Great observations thanks 🙏
Interesting thoughts. Silly not to include a data cable in that install while running it in. You would only regret it later if needed.
@@AndyK.1 maybe your right, but that cable is silly prices, like everything they fetch out, because it will save someone time they think, I know let's clack them, if I was running a data cable I would run some external data cable and leave it in the shed, then they could use a powered hub for more data points if needed
@@acelectricalsecurity some nice trench grade cat6e would do nicely sir!
Good
Thanks
Great video. You's are like the Ant and Dec of the sparky world. I'm an electrician, get me out of heeeerree! 😀
You should see the conduit bush tucker challenge 😂
tried contacting you a few times through your website and email with no luck. I have a (what I think) would make a great video regarding a home ev charger installation, NOTE no driveway or dedicated parking space. I have permissions granted, but would love to speak to you guys . I'm pretty local to you guys (Bradford, Great Horton) please please make contact. Thanks ... Chris H
At first it looks like watching a news headline😂
I’ve heard of a wonky fence. 😂
Whamacky is a variant of the term 😆😆😆
Good god, how much did this cost? Never recoup the cost, for a normal person.
I use to build these XD use to get incredibly stoned before going to work on the pick and place. Take a look at the soldering on the older models (probly the newer ones too) it’s some seriously shitty work. The guys they hire have no experience lol
But thats outside their boundry surely planning permission required
Wow what a PITA! I'll stick with my ICE cars :)
What ever did happen to the electric charger on tomorrow's world that was a waterproof disk that was contactless
I think that I would have offered the customer galv pipe/conduit rather than box trunking.
We don’t think that would have been as neat going across the decking etc
Can't pull SWA round a 90 degree bend in conduit
@@starbarrothschild788 depends on the bend radius, but it doesn't need to be SWA if it's in conduit anyway.
Cant be professionals notched a I beam you havent worked on I beams before you are not allowed to touch the top and bottom part of the joist only drilling through the centre
The beams above the consumer unit are traditional timber. We’ve done quite a bit of content on the issues with I-joists - kzhead.info/sun/lsNufdWggX6teaM/bejne.html
@@efixx I've been doing this for 30 years have worked with traditional wood joist and I beam I have never seen a solid joist above a Consumer unit with I beans have only been used only on load bearing areas like stairs
You can clearly see that is the bottom of A I beam Traditional wood joists do not get used when I beans are being used they use laminated beams I will show the video and photos to an NHBC inspector and see what he says about it
The cost of this install 💵💵💵💵💵💵💵
Exactly - a surprise when you see £300 advertised!
That Tesla is worth £150K, so it’s all relative…
@@mostlymessingabout The problem for the installer is often not the end client but getting the extra costs past the firm who contracted the job. This does illustrate that often the "standard installation package" is just a starting point as it usually just includes the charger, an RCBO and up to 10m of twin and earth cable surface clipped. I've installed loads an I've only ever had about 5 jobs which actually fitted that criteria.
Giv me 150K I will giv you 2 brand new Tesla Like This and 2 EV Charging point including installation with eefix Gary
@@Blackf1ngers back to 3 pin plug it is then 😅. I’m just going to run an IP65 twin socket outside. To be fair, going from 3kW to 7kW doesn’t sound like it warrant all these expense if you’re going to drive a £7K Nissan Leaf… For Tesla owners, even a proper charger is still painfully slow at 15 hours, so they might as well go for Supercharging anyway. Many people exclusively Supercharge.
Why does it cost a minimum of £400 for fitting? And why is the power outlet £600? Yes I understand safety and a circuit but it is still a lot of money for what it is. 😡🤠
Is £400 for a days work and all of the parts - 6mm sq cable, small consumer unit etc unreasonable?
@@efixx thanks for the reply but I am not taking about a all day job but the minimum that the job requires. Small consumer unit about £40, 6 meters of cable £30 if it was a full day that would be about £37 per hour.😳🤠
Gordon reminds me of a short haired clean shaven Roger Waters.
🤣 Jeez - im sure that will sick with the team - Thanks *Gordon
Temporary structure.
The metal post is a permanent structure
Cable route looks a complete bodge
What would you gave done?
And then it could be 515 months and then mine adapter is 2120 20,20 and happy new year in 20 20,24 and 2024. Happy you are a Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga Greek Greek you are Greek Greek Greek Greek you are pizza pizza money you suck, you get stuck in the drain in your bathroom drain like my brother
EV is a waste of time. It’ll be gone in 10y and all that money wasted on expensive installs for early adopters. Electric cars, using stored electrical Energy, aren’t the future.
What’s the alternative you are proposing?