Narcissist or Dark Empath?
Learn more about narcissism here: my.medcircle.com/45bvM1T
You may understand the signs of a narcissist, but have you ever heard of a ""dark empath""? Some behaviors look like narcissism, but the two are actually very different. In this video interview, psychologist Dr. Ramani Durvasula walks through the dark empath vs the narcissist: the signs you need to know.
Topics:
00:00 What is a dark empath?
00:35 3 types of empathy
00:56 The dark empath vs the narcissist
01:36 Type 1: Cognitive empathy
03:10 Type 2: Compassionate empathy
04:39 Signs of cognitive empathy (from a dark empath)
07:20 Do dark empaths have a high EQ (emotional intelligence)?
09:00 Dr. Ramani's final advice (more signs)
#psychology #narcissism #mentalhealth #mentalhealthawareness #mentalhealthmatters #darkempath
Get access to exclusive videos & live Q&A workshops with Dr. Ramani HERE: *bit.ly/3Utt5Eu*
Thank you for sharing your experience and time, you have saved my sanity!
So what am I when people come at me with their problems to try to get me to feel sorry for them and I do and then I will tell myself that's not my problem so I don't fall for it. That's not my family
@@Keith-hz9zd Very normal reaction and a very valid question. I'd like to know the answer as well. My guess is if you're not saying things like "shouldn't you be over this by now?" or using their personal grief as a weapon to attack them with at a later date next time you have an argument, then you're not a dark empath or anything like what she's describing. That's just my layperson's view.
@@neelubird Thanks I'm grateful. But sometimes I'll tell them I'm the wrong one to have a pity party with. Lol I'm not your man
Hi @MedCircle can you do Avoidant personality disorders please
As the scapegoat of the family, this explains why my instinct is never let any one know that I am ill, hurting or need help. Because I learned that this information gave my family members a means to further damage me. It is very difficult to trust my perception of who is a trustworthy friend or even medical professional.
I was a scapegoat also. It's a theme , I cannot shake. Over and over again. I put out kindness and somehow end up in an unfair situation
As a scape goat, you were taught to ignore your gut feeling. Unlearn that and learn to trust yourself. If your feelings ever confuse you, focus on facts. Be well.
Additionally, my inability to perceive “who can I trust causes a baffling presentation when I actually do need help. I will present myself as very calm, reasonable and at ease.At the same time claiming to be sick with acute pain, very high blood pressures and other signs of a panic attack. My affect does not match my words. The idea of needing help from a stranger will provoke a panic attack and the helper cannot figure out what is going on, unless the person has helped me before. I think most people can tell that I am very scared, but have no idea why.😘
@@allinaday9882 I have been told that I have an odd affect, also. When I am mentally freaked or sick, I am outwardly calm, my voice is lowered, I am still. I appear very collected and understated. I was not allowed to be sick or upset as a child. It was inconvenient to my mother who was the only one allowed to be sick or upset.
ALWAYS trust YOUR GUTS *FIRST*
"Love is protecting and guarding the vulnerabilities of the person you care about"
And with the twisting and cruel dismissed words of the person or people involved with a agenda to make you look, feel you have no right to protect or have a say in anything that involves someone who is vulnerable,like your children for an example, they cover-up with accusations on you,as they are displaying no accountability or are recognized they and their flying monkeys are laying out the agenda,towards a huge destruction all who are involved especially the vulnerable(children) and you the target
There's a fine line between love and co dependence if you view love that way.
@Jason Grice: Your comment is a kind, caring and wonderful definition of love. I felt both a tear and a smile upon my face. Thank you.🥰
@@allinaday9882 Thanks to Jason for writing one of Dr Ramani”s quotes from the video in his comment.
Reminds me of U2, One, "We're one, but we're not the same. We get to carry each other."
We all learned by age 7 not to tell our mother about any of our problems. We found that she would tell them to other adults and even use those problems as proof that we were bad defective kids.
Us too!
Did she though - or is that merely your perception, now, because you’d prefer to believe that than contemplate another reason for her having spoken openly about issues concerning you, that she was concerned about? “Reframing” or attempting to, “re-express” your own experiences, as something more suitable to their own desire and understanding, is a tactic abusers have used with regular monotany, in my experience. Designed to throw you ‘off balance’ and mitigate their own failings!
I'd never do that to my daughter. I make a conscious effort of who I vent to because I also need help processing/talking through. I usually choose my therapist, not other friends or family members. But my parents still do that to me and it's devastating at times. Which is why I am aware of it all the time
I'm sorry that happened to you. A terrible way to grow up.
@@1ihws And you are projecting and victim blaming. Go back to school plebeian.
“Love is protecting and guarding the vulnerabilities of the person you care about.” Thanks for this!❤️❤️❤️
When does this cross over into codependency?
@@bafflezbiz Uneducated guess: When it starts impacting your (guarder's) wellbeing.
To what degree though? To the degree where you suffer as much as the other person who put themselves in the situations that made them hurt? NO eventually you have to revert to cognitive empathy otherwise your life is over and being led by everyone else's issues all the time! We are all guilty of Al these traits except fo course the extreme versions which are typically very cvisibly lear
@@justinsmudde2554 “put themselves in the situation that made them hurt…” SHEESH! 🙄 that’s a contradiction when we’re talking about growing in a toxic environment
@@bafflezbiz I think it's possible to protect someones vulnerability without codependency. We can always say what worries us about someone's behavior, and be honest, with empathy and care - just don't use things told in confidence against them, or deliberately try to hurt them.
My Aunt was sharing a very traumatic incident that had happened to her in childhood and her husband interrupted and said something to the effect of haven't we discussed this enough, let's move on to something important, like lunch. That happened more than 10 years ago and I am still totally baffled as to how he could be soooo unempathetic
Why do I see that kind of negative behavior in others more often as I get older? It is scary to me some times. Like when the Amazon forest is burning while some people around who call themselves Christian instead of showing compassion to people caught in those forest fires while being preyed upon by crooks later - After hearing about what those people went through while they are reaching out for help instead of coming up with ways to help after learning about the resulting chaos and confusion then they are only dig in their heels more when it comes to racism towards anyone indigenous.
@@francesbernard2445 Narcissism is increasingly prevalent in society. So it's not about you getting older, but about western society getting sicker. You getting older, just happens to be going on at the same time.
@Weaving A Tapestry resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die
Maybe his sympathy well was run dry. I Just imagine the cloying need for empathy draining those who might otherwise give it freely. Us empaths can hold a grudge harder than those from whom we require justice. High horses make for Leary riders and hard falls. Maybe they have good reason to deny the ride!
A trump supporter without a doubt
I think the malignant narcissist is the best at cognitive empathy and they use everything you shared with them to completely destroy you with a sadistic grin on their face.
Been there
Yes, they'll grin and they eyes change color while they tell you something so foul
Yea that happened to me. Turned around and told my friends and parents all my secrets that I opened up about. Even went as far as to exploit me on the web. Started stalking me. These people are the worst humans ever. What's crazy is they have a way of getting people to believe them. But those that are smart can see past it
@@TrainWithStephh My SIL is so evil yet smart enough not to put anything in writing or on the web. If she did I would sue her for defamation of character.
@@zaviahopethomas-woundedsou9848 I didn't know I could do that...definitely looking into that. I have so much evidence on paper on this person
Emotional empathy can be exhausting if someone keep on expecting it from you no matter what. I try not let out all my sadness on someone else, especially if it's someone i care about. and I voluntary choose to be only cognitive involved with someone else, because the first option hurt me too much in the past. Compassion is a gift, but if you don't protect yourself, there isn't going to be much left for you to give
this is exactly how I feel! offering to help and fully allowing yourself to empathise with something very sad and devastating, can be very draining and damaging to a person that isn't doing too well or is tired. you need to protect yourself
Emotional empathy doesn’t mean take on their karma and the weight of their troubles. That’s how you ppl please. You can have all of those things and have boundaries.
@@flubberbubberc.4331 Exactly
Some folks are just emotional vampires, they latch onto your empathy and feeling and suck you dry. I too have learnt to keep an emotional distance from people until I'm sure they are trustworthy and deserve closeness and compassion. So yeas, I go by "cognitive empathy" with the vast majority of people I know these days. For my chosen family on the other hand I would do anything. Oddly enough acquaintances and coworkers still consider me the go to person to get advice on their problems
True.
So many times we hear narcissists have no empathy. This is the first time I’ve heard acknowledgment that some of them are experts at appearing empathetic. They will hook you before you realize how awful they are and they will use it to help destroy you when they discard you.
Sound like my now ex-husband! 🙄
they are pure evil
As the daughter of a seriously BPD mother, i totally get the different kinds of empathy, i think emotional and compassionate empathy can be exhausted at a certain point though. I think intellectual empathy can also be an attempt at setting personal boundaries with people who demand endless emotional empathy without ever really reciprocating. At a certain point it's like i can totally get it, and feel bad, but i can't live on an emotional rollercoaster because other people can't handle their emotions.
That's me as well. I used to be very much an emotional empath, but it becomes soo exhausting when people leach into it. I've learned to detach myself from people's emotions and just acknowledge they feel a certain way in order to protect myself
Sorry you had to go through that. My brother's ex has BPD (which she'll never acknowledge let alone address) and it's been awful. I feel bad for their kids and worry about what long term impact it'll have being raised by her- especially as she'd made every effort to destroy their relationship with mine and my brother's side of the family.
@@meluli1603 were you raised by a BPD mother? Have you experienced what they’ve gone through? BPD is the emotional roller coaster, and a kid is subject to it 24/7. Of course she’s going to be exhausted by it. She’s her mother’s supply, in narcissist terms. Have a little compassion yourself.
@@meluli1603 I’m sorry you went through that. It doesn’t excuse labeling someone else as a non-empath, etc., though. Right Weaponry is trying to protect herself, and it sounds as if you are doing the same.
@@meluli1603 you can still learn to protect yourself from the predatory energies of others, even though you’re an empath. I’m an empath too. I was abused physically and emotionally by my mother, and my father was a narcissist who spent time committed in a psychiatric hospital. I learned how to protect myself, and I bet you can too. I’m a senior citizen too (born in 1958). I wish you well. 🙏
I experienced this. My husband and I had been trying to conceive for over a year. When I finally got pregnant, and subsequently miscarried in the second trimester, a week later he asked why I wasn't over it yet and tried to have me admitted to a psyche ward. I Thank God We're Not Married any more. Malignant narcissists do this "dark empathy" behavior as a major tool in their tool box.
I can relate. Between my ex and his mother they tried to book me in a psych ward after my 3rd traumatic miscarriage. That would have also allowed them to look after our little girl for a month when they never really cared before. It's heartbreaking and sick AF. Now dealing with "Co parenting" but that's a different story. Good you got out 💪
I always wondered if my ex was a malignant narcissist or dark empath... I had an intuitive bond with my ex and I could see exactly how creul his thoughts were to the point of suffocating 💔
@@curiousnita I’d be cautious about thinking you “could see exactly how cruel his thoughts were.” All you will “see” is what *you* are projecting onto others.
@@abd5441 lol Are you Curios Nita's ex?
...in the second trimester.. isn't that like giving birth? sorry you went through that. It can be heartbreaking.
My former boss was a dark empath. She would have people confide in her, express empathy, but the minute we don’t agree with her opinion or thoughts, she would use our issues in a very dark conniving evil way. She was always in everyone’s personal business and often treated the work environment like it’s a friendship circle or sorority. If you don’t pledge your support for her she will come after you. I remember having to remove her and her circle of favorites from my social media because she would search and try to find information on me. I didn’t realize this until watching this video. Very toxic person.
We need more on this topic I need to understand how to identify a boss as a dark empathy vs just being stern
Nailed my experience. Thank you for sharing!
I'm a dark empath. I have high narcissism but I can control it enough to keep myself quiet when I need to...although it does slip out sometimes. Ive been open with my best friend about my condition which allows me to be myself around him. I have low compassion and my emotional empathy is like a switch. Sometimes I can react emotionally, but most of the time I'm pretty dead inside. My cognitive empathy is very high...I can read people easily. It's like a sixth sense. I can easily spot psychos and narcissists. My worst trait is my Machiavellian side. Sometimes I manipulate people. What's scary is I sometimes do it unconsciously...and of course sometimes I do it consciously. I do want to be a good person tho....but I struggle. I have severe anxiety and depression do to my inner conflicts. I'm a much better actor than a psycho, and a much better person than a narcissist, but I'm no empath.
So great you know yourself and can acknowledge your challenges with such candour.
@@FractalCodex7not as great as it sounds
That sounds pretty normal... Except for this attention seeking comment. But you could just be a fan looking for community. But then why think you're so special? Idk anything anymore.
@@johnswag7083 I can't stand being around dark personalities. Like many people, I enjoy being around empaths. I do not wish to be part of a "dark empath" community, or any dark community for that matter. My life's mission is to be the best person I can be. I'm not special, but the reason why I know what I am, is because I've experimented with psychedelics and it allowed me to self-realize. That's all I can really say on the subject. I hope that clears things up a bit.
Holy shit you just described me to a T.. 😬
"We accept empathy lite and we take it as the real thing." Oof! She nailed it, as always!
Always my first red flag! Cold empathy or (cognitive empathy) is a trait shared by the psychopath and the narcissist. They are both grandiose but the psychopath does not need narcissistic supply. The narcissist however is addicted to supply and cannot survive without it. Cognitive empathy is not the sole indication of narcissism. It is a trait shared by schizoid personality disorder as well.
Yes. I agree . When Dr. Ramini called it “ empathy lite” I think what she used is what’s called a metaphor and she pegged it. I just love to read original language when a professional can explain a clinical situation in words that a layperson ( meaning a non-professional ) can envision the clinical assessment . Just excellent , Dr. Ramini .
@@michaeljensen4650 Really? The schizoid personality disorder? How?
Especially - when you have others offering NO empathy. You can feel like, "At least someone understands." But then the relief from being understood is very fleeting and insubstantial - like eating a candy bar instead of a meal.
@@michaeljensen4650 whoa! I learned what I’ve been searching for for years! Thank you! You have helped me connect a dot! Sending you all the best!!! ❤
I feel I was a dark empath...until I realized that after being abandoned by my both parents, no one showed mercy for my life...I experienced no empathy, and I almost died many times...once I got into the deep grief of all the pain I went through during my infancy (grief that has lasted for years) I started feeling compassion for myself and as a consequence for others... it is difficult to function properly when we have been so severely broken by our parents and this culture...the only one who was able to bring me into this process of healing was my child, cuz I just didn't want to hurt her and pass to her all my brokenness...I'm sure I have made a lot of mistakes anyways, but I am really trying and I don't and will never blame her if she is mad at me for any pain I might have caused to her...
Big hug! I was abandoned by both my parents and same story / miracle happened - the only one who was able to bring me into this process of healing was my child
Ty for this, never thought about it in this way but thats how i feel
yeah, that sounds familiar..
I got into counseling when I was thirty due to a lot of bad dysfunction in my family I had my child at 25
Sorry I didn't mean to send that so soon but as I said having my child at 25 I was thirty when I went into counseling and the counselor told me that having my child helped me to heal my inner child because I was so worried that I was going to pass down the dysfunction from what I grew up in to her which I didn't it sounds like you're doing great you know what happened where the mistakes were made with you so you are very aware of what's going on and how you are raising your child so you'll be fine and there is no book for being a perfect parent all we can do is do the best that we can so good luck to you and your little😊
Just because a narcissist can pretend to care doesn’t make them empathic . They are actually covert narcissists playing out a strategy. To me empathy is a shared experience. I was hurt and I recognize that in others and want to help them.
Amen!
I always understood a dark empath to be an empath who has been beaten down by narcissistic abuse, and then eventually turned dark, by displaying narcissistic behaviours.
It did have that effect on me so it’s possible but be very careful there’s blurred lines & could just be a narc period . This vlog is speaking of just being a narc though different issue
Seems like when a truly nice person has been overwhelmed to the picture of a dark turning explosion of holding years of garf inside pressure. A dark empath turns from kindness to revenge. I think it is a pattern used by famous cartoon maker. Over and over and over. We are already programed. Are you a princess or an evil queen?
@@cyndijohnson5473 LMAO you sound like my narc ex. This person is expressing themselves and you hop on their post to belittle them Wow. Golly gee whiz. This vid about people like you !
@@cyndijohnson5473 No, she's saying since she's discovered the term (abd we don't know when that was or how) she always understood... That.
I've been trying to look this up for a long time and you worded it perfectly thank you! its like they take on those behaviors that they would never exhibit if it wasn't done to them first. Someone close to me acts like this a lot and its very puzzling because they don't seek attention constantly and go out of their way to put others down, but God forbid she's offended, feels cornered or wrong doings exposed because hell hath no fury than her after that. Yet can connect, understand and think about life as special, sacred and meaningful. Its confusing to say the least...so again thank you for wording that uniquely.
This is 💯 how my narcissist ex sucked me in at the beginning by making me think he was empathetic and respectful when I talked about past hurts. He was not and used the info and my vulnerability to exploit me after. He was totally a camouflaged poisonous snake. It was hard for me to wrap my head around. Tough lesson to learn but now I can see it for what it is, so when I see it in others, I run. Thank you for clarifying this. 🙏😊❤️
Thanks for sharing. Can I ask you how he exploited you? My story is the same….
My boyfriend went through the same thing with an ex girlfriend. Crazy thing is she manipulated and trapped him into having a a baby together. I pray for the strength to have this kind of narcissist in my life as the baby was just born 🙏🏾
@@AlohaAmie Oldest trick in the book. And now we have DNA testing too! Guys, the solution is simple. Dont have unprotected sex. Or just dont have sex! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 you guys are so weak. Yes we ladies have our own bag of dirty tricks, keep it zipped, boys and you will be just fine.
Exactly the ex-husband I was married to. They are a whole demonic spirits with themselves..
@@AlohaAmie something is not good with you. You are dating a man with a new born baby? Very possible his ex girlfriend is not a narcissist, but he is. She is gaslighted and therefore represented to you as the devil one. You are his next supply. A normal and healthy person would not date a man with a newborn as a parent of a newborn wouldn’t. And it shows how you talked about her. Ask for yourself. And run from this three angle.
my sister and my mother is like this. You feel very supported when they are fishing for information from you and then use it against you whenever they need it. My sister, she can't even wait for the conversation to end until she spoke her thoughts and their dark and always insulting. It's in a matter of less than 10 minutes
OMG can 💯 relate to that!
I can relate so much to this!
Some of this is because our patience wears thin after a while. We may start with good intentions but when we perceive someone is wallowing in self pity then we start to become irritated. Of course this is when we are trying to be genuine. If it’s merely an exercise in gaining information or insinuating ourselves then we may actually be able to hide our contempt better since it is serving a purpose.
Thank you for your videos. With an Overt Narcissist first he may make promises to change then when that does not work, aggression, and physical violence. He will try to get you back under his control by any means necessary. You are his property no matter how many times he has cheated and left you. I had to leave the state making it more difficult for him to have access to me. This narc traveled to where I was living 5 states away and tried to drag me back cave man style. I have read that the lesser narcissist has poor cognitive function and low impulse control. Some are even capable of rape when they suffer a narcissistic injury. While I believe all narcissist can lash out violently when enraged and suffering from a narcissistic injury it is even more so with the lesser. My experience with this narcissist was even if we separated and he had moved on with a new supply source he would still come around to make sure I was not seeing anyone. If I happened to start dating he became violent even when he was engaged with someone new. Most narcissist when they are love bombing a new supply source will not want the one they discarded in the picture at least in the beginning of his new relationship. If they are engaged with a new supply source and still Hoovering you for fuel they have a sadistic streak. This narcissist cheated throughout the entire marriage. He engaged in triangulation with his first wife. She was a constant in our marriage until her suicide. The Covert Narcissist may try to come back after they have been involved in a few relationships which did not work out. When they try to come back they are low on supply and suffering from depression because of a loss of narcissistic supply. They love to tell you about the relationships they have been in and now they are smearing the person they left you for. They may tell you the person they have been in a relationship with has been abusing them. The Covert may apologize for all his past transgressions and the way he discarded you. He will have an excuse as to why he was so abusive and cruel at the end. It can play with your mind wondering if he is truly sorry. He can even have tears. You have to remember the tears are for himself. He is down and out with no available supply source. You must remember how he was at the end when he discarded you and the mask came completely off. He will seem desperate to keep you around as the Hoover takes place. And he is desperate for narcissistic supply. This is a midrange narcissist I’m talking about here and although very capable of violence he needs to put on a good show to convince you he really is a good person. This narcissist really does believe he is a good person and needs others to see him as such. If you see through this narcissist and don’t buy his story he may leave you alone. He will slink away like the snake that he is in search of new supply sources. Narcissist don’t like to waste their energy and when he sees you are not buying into it he is forced to search out new supply sources. I say forced because it is life or death to him to keep the false construct in place. In order to keep the false self in place he needs narcissistic supply. He needs the admiration of others or he ceases to exist. When you no longer buy the lie he will move on. Covert Narcissist do not display the open grandiosity of the Overt. While the Overt seems full of confidence the Covert lacks self esteem. The Covert will use a lot of pity plays working on your sympathetic nature. He wants you to feel sorry for him. The Covert is a coward. In any case Overt or Covert they suffer a narcissistic injury when they are rejected by an ex. They think they own you for life. In both cases I left the state when my marriages ended:) Additionally there is no way you can be too sure that your spouse isn’t cheating behind your back. The only way you can be sure if your spouse is cheating on you or not is “TO FIND OUT“. Get to find out about a cheating spouse with evidence to prove it by spying their mobile and thereafter gaining access to all the things they might have been hiding away from you. If you need to find out about a cheating spouse; send a request to: *Metaspyhub@gmail. com* .
Don’t have a person with Dark Empathy be your therapist. My therapist literally said we already talked about that last week even though I still had pain from it. I now realize my issues are a check list to her.
The "dark empath" describes SO many bad therapist stories I've heard! It seems like a cohort of people become therapists for their own voyeuristic interest, not the benefit of the client. I've heard of numerous ones completely invalidating medical conditions or neurodivergencies with "must be trauma. Tell me about the trauma"
Please get a more compassionate therapist
@@lilykinz249 I agree, but my patience & curiosity kicked in. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. SMH.. Yes, after 4 months and watching this video again, I definitely realize she is a Dark empath. Unfortunately, I also realize it’s a trend with therapist.
No offense but Maybe shes trying to get you to forget about it. I bet whatever happened 5 months ago isnt weighing as heavily as it did now.
It happened during that week. I already dealt with the past. My covert narcissist husband is living in my present. I do get now she wanted to divert the conversation related to she could see it was causing more pain and anxiety. Her goal is to teach me to have the ability to be in the present. Basically, not to ruminate; it only causes more anxiety & negative feelings. I am in a DBT group now to regulate feelings. Along with a Meditation group. My therapist TX plan also included mindfulness. That’s the topic for the next DBT group. I am still in the process of attaining a different therapist. My therapist schedule is too full to accommodate my needs. I know it’s unethical for a therapist not to keep a client who’s needs can’t be met by her.
OMG the horrible boss I had that drove me to a mental break down that I was hospitalized for, said to me 6 weeks after my mother died when she found me crying " Aren't you over that yet? It has been weeks!"
Omg, that’s horrible! Did you report that to HR 😢
Oh my! I am so sorry it happened to you! 😢How insensitive!!
@@Huggon419 Yes I did and they did nothing. I reported her several times before this happened! I ended up going on permanent long term disability because of her.
I had a horrible cruel boss too. We are nurses and it was unbelievable! HR did nothing. It took its toll on me to say the least. She hated that I had a great rapport with my patients.
@@teresa4786 Wow, that's a little scary, that a nurse, a boss, would have a problem with your ability to make your patients more at ease and comfortable due to your ability to build a rapport; I have had over 30 surgeries and I always valued the warmth and kindness of my nurses; I had only one occasion with a really grumpy, nasty dispositioned nurse and she made me more miserable and a little nervous! Thank you for being one of the good ones; I hope you have been thanked by your grateful patients many times. I always let my nurses know how much I appreciated their kindness, as it mattered more to me than my Dr's mood of the day since they were there for a short few minutes, making their rounds, but as a patient, we interact with the nurses frequently. Even though my husband was there for most of the time, or our daughter, they both also had to tend to business at their office and couldn't be there 24/7. And they were always appreciative of kind and friendly nurses, who exuded warmth; I always felt that y'all were more on top of things than some of the Drs.! So, I am sorry that you had to deal with a warped personality as your boss; a kind and warm nurse is a treasure in my opinion; thank you for being one of the good ones!
I say this with love because I genuinely appreciate this channel and the discussions. I think its a bit reductive to say that if someone isn't willing to fully engage emotionally with another person, or that they don't offer to help,, that they're a 'dark empath' or a narcissist. I have always felt very overwhelmed by my empathy, and occasionally still do. I had to learn to be a bit more protective of myself and only engage mentally in some situations. it is very overwhelming being neurodivergent and stressed, to also take on the weight of someone else' pain. I love them and I will fully be there for them, but I am primarily responsible for myself and I have to protect myself and sometimes disengage emotionally. I disagree that we have to give ourselves fully to those we care about, or that we always have to be emotionally available. but maybe I'm not fully understanding what Dr Ramani is saying.
i understand what you're saying but i don't think that's what she's saying. if you've dated enough narcissists, 'dark empaths' the distinction is very very clear.
Hmm thanks for commenting this, watching this I was wondering if I’ve just trained myself to be a dark empath in adulthood. What you’re saying here makes perfect sense & I complete relate. All the times I should’ve said “I’m sorry that happened to you, but ok I’m busy bye” are countless. I had always put others first and it’s so few the people who responded to my offer for help with “oh no, you’re busy now, go take care of that thing and we’ll chat more about it afterward”. I’ve learned to disengage & I’m literally finally succeeding and growing in life.
That's because personality psychology is extremely fraught with statistical issues...in essence... these constructs do not capture 100% of people's personality 100% of the time... there are too many exceptions... I kind of wish they put this caveat here, because personality isn't a static variable, it can change over time.
Amen! We are all just human beings. As human beings, we love to label and categorise others to make us feel like “good people” when in reality, we are all both light and dark.
It’s important to keep these specific relationships in mind, like if it’s a common occurrence between your partner, children, or parents, to treat them as emotional punching bags. You’re not a narcissist for disengaging or holding an emotional barrier, but if this disengagement means the people you love’s problems are dumb and they’re being stupid, over emotional, and a constant annoyance, then you’re the problem
Which explains why my mother's love felt crazymaking. I could hear she could identify my emotion but could never figure out what was missing. It was FEELING!!!!
I'm a therapist and have strong cognitive empathy but not so much emotional empathy. I don't think all people with only cognitive empathy belong in the dark category though. I'm sure many, like me, use it for the good of others
Agreeing to Source-Somatics. Due to strong emotional empathy I possessed in the past, I came to a point of being a sponge absorbing every stories of people who would confide to me due to putting myself in their shoes and contemplating ways on how to easen their pain. Until a wise person advised me I am not always the answer to everyone's problem. Don't always put the burden on my shoulders. With regard to dark empath, I highly agree with Dr. Ramani after my betrayal experience with a narcissistic friend. They're good at projecting an empathic self just to spy on you and eventually target you after putting your guard down by divulging your vulnerabilities to them.
It’s your job but at the end of the day you have to protect yourself and not get too invested so that you can continue helping them. I see nothing wrong with that at all.
Being a therapist you are acting on your cognitive empathy 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
I am everything Dr Ramani said.
Probably because it's your job. I'm sure if you were using Cognitive empathy against people, you wouldn't be a very successful therapist.
The danger of categorising others so confidently, and with more and more detail, is that you lose sight of your own flaws. And the inherent mystery of life. None of us is perfect. We all have blind spots, projections, unconscious motivations. We probably all have shades or shards of narcissism. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and I feel that all of this extraordinary effort to categorise and catalogue the failings and damaged personalities of others has unintended, unacknowledged side effects for our own lives. It can also be an outgrowth of the kind of intellectual precociousness someone had to develop as a child, in order to survive an abusive, loveless home (ie I'll be my own parent, and I'll think incessantly about everyone around me, to comfort and protect the damaged, vulnerable part of me). Even if all these endless, endlessly complicated insights about others are true, or more or less true, we still need to wonder, from time to time, why am I doing this? What would happen if I dropped all this effort at pinning others down and rigidly defining them? Who would I be, and what new things might I let in, if I dared to believe I actually didn't have all the answers, and didn't fully understand other people (or myself)?
Really good point. People are too complex to totally pin down completely. There’s another side to categorization and labeling and it can be negative for the labeled and the ‘labeler.’ To sum up what you’re saying is also question or challenge yourself and beliefs. Never stop questioning the external and internal. Always think about why?. For others and yourself. This is an understated comment 💯
Peace ✌🏼
Best damn comment so far.
What type of empathy is knowing when someone is lying, or picking up vibes that alerts you to danger. I’m that tuned into my empathy, whereas I used to attract narcissists grew up around them. Now I repel them as I think they sense I see them. It used to be a curse I thought I was crazy but now it’s gift ❤
Conscious alertness (self defense levels which can apply to emotional defense too I think): -white (not paying attention at all, perps target as easy victims) -yellow (alert in public settings, watching, scanning) -orange (something is off, intuition bad vibe or physical disturbance, seek exit tragedy asap or prepare if you need to take defensive position) -red (immediate danger to your body or life, act now) Intuition is when you have a VIBE. It’s unconscious. You feel off about someone. Something feels false. Or something comes to you like: “they just lied to me” without overthinking it. You know it’s true - and usually people second guess themselves here, but when we get better at honing intuition and also listening to it, we are better off.
That's your intuition, that is 🥳🙏
So glad you said this, it is false empathy. They never take responsibility for their behaviour & always play victim. Dark empath is an oxymoron, they use emotional insight to exploit - this is narcissism, a way to manipulate with lack of compassion. My mother was an accomplished narcissist & all three of my significant partners targeted & intrigued me, using the classic techniques I wasn't aware of. I was used to trying to excuse toxic behaviour, so it took a long time for me to establish firm boundaries or just say enough. From my mother's manipulations to my much older brother's sexual abuse through my infancy, distorted love was a normality, I stupidly turned away the few genuinely kind invested nurturing people I met & feel guilty for hurting them by returning to being a loveless convenience.
@paulstuardhuú a loveless convenience it would be poetic and beautiful if it didn't stand for something so hideous and ugly but I do like your choice of worrying it's very unique and I appreciate it because I understand what that entails.
Same 😮💨❤️🩹
I meant wording not worrying. Good grief LOL
This is why narcs can score high on empathy when taking a personality and strength tests. They understand it and have empathy for their own circumstances, but it doesn’t mean they have empathy towards other people and it definitely doesn’t mean they have empathy towards people they don’t like or feel threatened by.
I had a close friend who gave great cognitive empathy on a somewhat regular basis until I had an unplanned pregnancy. Any time I began to open up about my situation she would wave her hand and laugh it off or tell me I was being overdramatic- "It's not that big a deal. You'll be fine!" The message was very clear; the more real my need for empathy was, the less she was willing to listen or be there for me. Based on our history, I knew she was capable of at least recognizing my emotions, so coming to the understanding that she was choosing not to and was in fact refusing to acknowledge that I had any reason to feel worried about a serious life change was a slap in the face.
Did you end that friendship? I have a similar friend and I have had to relegate her to an associate because it drains your self esteem. To have someone call you and talk at you about their own (self-inflicted) problems for 10 minutes but try to interrupt you when you talk for 30 seconds... No, thanks.
@@laestrella9727 if you're not able to extremely limit your expectations when in conversation with this person, it is best to just stop dealing with her ánd to take time for yourself to grieve the friendship.
@@ANGUS2nd Yeah.. easier said than done though.. breaks up a friendship group too.. I just limit contact with her now and avoid being alone with her.
@@laestrella9727 B*itches be tripping; Good to limit contact.
@@laestrella9727 I did end the friendship, but only after naively trying to bring back some part of what we'd had in what I now know was the lovebombing phase. I lived with her at the time, so it was very difficult being brushed off on a daily basis while struggling with major questions in my life. It was really ugly, especially since I didn't understand at the time that she showed heavy narcissistic tendencies and I was still trying to appeal to her almost nonexistent empathy. I couldn't believe she was that cold even when I was experiencing her dismissal first hand. She ran a smear campaign on me and I was not prepared for the effects of that. It is so hard figuring out what to do when you have mutual friends. I was lucky there was one mutual friend who she'd had an ugly friend breakup with just 7 months before I left her life (wish I'd understood that as a red flag rather than as "normal" interpersonal differences, I definitely became an occasional flying monkey there) and I was able to relate so much with the other discarded friend who was gracious and understanding about it all and who's been a lovely presence in my child's life.
My ex was apparently very empathic and I opened to him Then I discovered that he was mean and manipulative : he was a narcisist You said everything so well Thank you always
As a child I recall watching HG Wells' "The Time Machine" and there was a scene (in the future) where a person was drowning in a river and every witness stood by and watched instead of helping. Their lack of action to save the drowning person was shocking to me in the 1980's, but in 2022 I see society has devolved into what the film was depicting. I see too many people willing to turn away from other people when they need a helping hand. The situation is sad, what happened to us?
In a situation like that there’s a different phenomenon at play, everyone is waiting for someone else to act. It’s not necessarily because of a lack of empathe.
Also mental illness definitely existed back then as well, just not understood as well, so society hasn’t developed into anything, we’re just becoming more aware and educated
Is that the film with 'books books yes we have booooooks' 😂
But yes I agree 👍
I feel you. Me? I've gotten described as being an empathic person. But in my journey in life that dark empathy side of me has come out. Am I malignant dark empath- no. But I've used my skills to my advantage not just for myself but for others who couldn't/ wouldn't stand up for themselves. In the end, when I've had to deal with treachery, betrayal, malignant behavior, liars, thieves, people who act stupid and scam artists does that dark empathy come out in me? Oh yeah. Because you either become the fly and I'm the spider, you're a mouse caught in my cat claws, I will come in silence like an anaconda who will suffocate you or the venomous snake finding the best spot to bite. In the end, I'm a genuinely nice person, I like people watching, I love animals and I value kindness, decency, honesty and being real. But get on my bad side, I take pleasure if I get information on you that will make you squirm. In the end, there's a native American legend about that there's two dogs within peoples souls. A black one and a white one. I just feed either one as needed for whatever situation I get put in.
I think this can be a slippery slope. I feel this is valid in a sense but not the full picture. Those with cognitive empathy but not a fully developed emotional empathy arent automatically poisonous snakes, they just process things intellectually.. and those with a developed emotional empathy aren't necessarily "safe" people and can be the most poisonous snakes in my opinion. Regardless of which "side" you belong to I think the most important thing is having a spiritually and morally considerate basis in which to work from and judge each situation as a unique experience and bring the two sides together with true understanding and compassion.
Yes! My feelings exactly!
@@sashawalker4492 yesss! 💯
@@sashawalker4492 Very well-expressed.
I agree, I find it very hard to emotionally empathize with anyone, so I have to work it out logically. The term “dark empath” seems like a smear against those that don’t naturally exhibit emotional empathy. I recognize this traits in myself and I choose to be single so I don’t hurt anyone.
I'm sorry but you're way off. My narcissist girlfriend (now ex) with whom I was together for two years, had a zero empathy reaction to a situation where a friend of another of my ex popped up and disclosed that the child her friend (my ex) birthed was actually mine. I was emotionally devastated as originally I thought that the old ex just wanted a sugar daddy. And you know what my girlfriend at the time did? She made it all about herself, a terrible fight broke out because of this when all I needed was a bit of compassion as I struggled before during all the 9 months of pregnancy thinking it was my son when it was all a lie. She just went on and on how this will be terrible for her, how I will be away on weekends to see my child with another woman, etc. Later on she realized cognitively that this was wrong on so many levels but I never felt that she truly "got it" because there was no emotional reaction to this. Her therapist probably explained to her that it's wrong, so she cognitively understood and kind of tried to reconcile but it didn't work as she would still be ignorant and cold on a million other things where an emotionally normal human being would react with compassion and kindness. So rationalize all you want but these people are cold and calculating and everything revolves around them, it's disgusting.
6 minutes in and I’ve learnt two new important things! That complete empathy is cognitive, emotional and involves action And love is protecting and guarding the vulnerabilities of the person you care about 6:10 Both very mind blowing to me, I never really learnt
That last statement blew me away!
❤
i have to say i am really enjoying your videos. As a healthcare provider myself who has moved from 2 decades of critical care to the mental side of healthcare I am seeing there is a lot more to learn. Thank You and keep them coming. Using your information on my own life and relationships both professional and personal.
Her description of the dark empath is chillingly resonant. I never had the words for it til now. Thank you!
When my ex decided he was an empath and his sister was a "dark empath", I had no idea what narcissism was. Now I understand that he was projecting his narcissism onto his sister, and it's all sorts of messed up.
Agree-I think the deflection and projection are where the crazymaking happens
- Very insightful!
My friend Aaron's wife accused him of being a narcissist. She even gave him information to prove he was this way. When he read it, it actually opened his eyes, because she fit almost all of the traits of a narcissist to a T.
I’d say the bulk of the accusers who claim victimization….are the perpetrators. A pox on stupid internet narcissism videos. Dr. Ramani has done far more harm than good, scaring weak minds, stoking paranoia and doing nothing to help anyone move on. Just fixating and fixating on perceived mistreatment. If anything she engenders a paranoid narcissistic fear in her “followers.” Does this stuff make anyone feel or live better?
I experienced this with a therapist and a physician's assistant who was my general health care provider. If a health care provider does this to you, RUN!
All of this. I wish I would have known the difference between cognitive empathy and true emotional empathy. My heart is broken for myself all over again. Thank you for this very life changing information.
Dr. Ramani has such a light. Her energy is just astounding… I clicked on this video just knowing she was being featured ❤
In my experience as counselor, empathy (both affective and cognitive) is really helpful. I notice when clients disclose, it starts affective. I can really feel the pain, then the cognitive element of empathy allows me to be objective as well and to give perspective helpful to the client. But Dr Ramani makes sense here. Dark empaths may be more dominantly cognitive and use that to manipulate and gaslight.
I've heard counselors talking about being present to themselves which perhaps counterintuitively allows one to attune on an emotional level all the while being comfortable with the detachment that cognitive empathy requires when working out a healing strategy.
What if you are a cognitive empathy but don`t manipulate and this is just the way you connect with the another persons reality? I think if I would actually feel everything other people tell me, I would have unalived myself years ago. Instead I just worry a lot and fell a slight tugging under my breastbone. Does that still count as a dark empath?
I'm not sure if I'm really a dark empath but I can say that over the years I've developed the ability to be more practical and rational rather than emotional. I have not been emphasised with myself so many times that I find it hard to emphasise with others for a long period of time. I feel like they have had enough time to cry and be sad and now should get over it, just like the way I had to do when no one was emphasising with me. I do know though that this is not coming from a place of apathy but from a place of anger and hurt.
That's not at all an unusual reaction to emotional trauma. Some people get volatile/aggressive, some withdraw and shut down emotionally. I lost both my parents as a teen - my father after long, severe illness and I had a similar reaction to having had to go through this on my own, pretty much. It's hard for me to be empathetic towards others, especially, if it's a prolonged situation. I'm good with giving practical help or in an emergency. And I genuinely like helping others. But afterwards, I just tend to go back to normal and kinda expect others, to do the same. I just don't know, how to deal with their pain and sadness. I can feel it, in a way...but it doesn't transfer to me. There's an invisible wall in the middle.
Honestly, generalized resentments are pretty deep and bitter wounds to heal. I felt a similar way (for most of my childhood), but for me it was more about vulnerability. It was being vulnerable or weak around people that I feared...and so I hated everyone in the world for THEIR vulnerabilities. _I hated in others that which I could not change within myself._ I hated and feared my own vulnerabilities because of the ways people treated me (or didn't) in the past. I still have some trust issues when it comes to allowing people to see me NEED anything or anyone. I was mostly scared of being hurt in the areas were my armour is weakest. _So I turned my hurt into anger...because feeling angry at the world felt better than feeling hurt and alone._ Eventually, my emotional empathy crystalized like a shield of intellectual apathy. I'm not even sure if ANY of this applies to you or your personal situation -- 😅 on account of me being a random stranger an' all lol
A dark empath is essentially a type of psychopath that's called a psychological sadist. They get a perverted thrill from using their natural profiling abilities to manipulate other people. I think what you are experiencing is called emotional burnout. All that anger and hurt is blocking your ability to form emotional connections. You are afraid that adding any more of those connections will just bring more pain along with them, so you stopped letting yourself connect as an automatic defense mechanism.
Maybe you're experiencing compassion fatigue?
Just want to add here that anyone who questions themselves or worries if they're being a narcissist or a dark empath, chances are you are not one at all. A real one wouldn't ever care to question that or even think something is wrong with them for being that. Sure some empaths may have some narcissistic traits developed due to past trauma and social defense methods, but there's a big difference between having traits and having a full blown disorder.
Hi Dr. Ramani! I just wanted to drop a note to say thank you for shedding light on the harm done growing up in families with these kind of interactions that don't get necessarily recognized. But we categorize other states, e.g. a close friend is bipolar totally brilliant and incredibly loving and high functioning, admittedly meds. And also that yes, one can definitely survive these experiences. My best friend became a psychiatrist because his brother is a sociopath and he couldn't understand someone whom he was meant to feel close to who had no empathy. And it's much more prevalent than people think. Definitely affected my life. Your work is greatly appreciated and I especially loved the segment you did on introverts!!! That was lovely.
This is why I'm so afraid of the world and grown more reclusive over the past few years. There's deception EVERYWHERE. Nothing and nobody is a fully safe space; not even therapist (who are trained/certified to help guide healthy processing and legally obligated to uphold confidentiality). The only way to have peace of mind is to disengaged from everything and have the least amount of personal interactions as possible. Even the people I trust cannot be trusted because I don't trust the people they know. I hate it here. So much. And heavily, but equally, fight and resent fighting daily to even be bothered with trying to make the best of whatever this bs is.
God, I can empathizes (no pun intended here!) with this so much! You know how I solve that little conundrum? I get to know new people, who don`t know anyone I know and I refuse to get involved with their friends unless I feel it is save to do so. It`s not perfect but I think it`s a fair compromise.
yes ,you need Jesus! 5 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world-the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life-is not from the Father but from the world.…1 John 2-15
I can relate! I've spent a lot of my life like that. Not a bad thing. I need to get back to that.
Let me tell you, you don't want to be an ordinary empath in the world that we live in. I was an ordinary empath and after watching Shera Seven videos I realised that you can be whoever you want to be. You don't have to Feel Sorry for Every person that goes through stuff because within a few days you end up going through difficult times as well and usually those people don't show up for you than they would show up for the narcissist. People take advantage of good people. Hence the saying that good people eat last. I watched Dr Ramani a lot when I was in the dark about narcissism and was the Family Scapegoat. I watched other channels also and I agree with those who don't encourage being too feely with everybody because that's not good for you as someone who tries to heal from narcissistic attacks. Remember if you grew up feeling scapegoated your problem in that household was that you sense and feel too much so you can see through these stuff. So you want to reach a level whereby you can still see through these things and reduce the feelings part because that's what makes Narcissists Target You because they know that you will be willing to take their kids to school when they don't want to and end up being entangled back in their games so No.
Dang- spot on.. It's the exact scenario w/ Christmas/birthdays/special events... The narc msg is always: You Need To Do MORE!!!!
For someone like me who has become more emotionally aware after a childhood of abandonment and neglect, it’s huge for me to recognize that other people are going through something and so yes I am cognitively empathic, and as I continue to grow and become more in touch with my feelings I hope to be able to be able to go to the next step that you describe as a true empathic Situation. I would just like to say for others like myself are just starting to feel their emotions and are able to at least be cognitively empathic High five 👋🏻 you’re doing great and don’t let this video shame you into thinking you’re doing something wrong.
Thank you
For real. Im responsible for managing my own emotions. Not anyone else's.
That's actually awesome I just wish I could hear that straight from my own husband I really really love him and I kno his had 2 go thru souch crap it's definitely not fair for anyone to deal with half he did. If only I could do something to help anything I'm so broken and scared rn
@@elizabethbusby131 my covert lied about most h Everything he told me. It too me being present and not taking his word on anything
Like my Dad I've always been emotionally present, which included in his macho guy energy crying because he loved the musical score in a film vrs my mum, a holocaust survivor who never cried and relied on humour. I have both those acquired traits and love that they're gender reversed. Sometimes when someone is breaking down and sobbing and i don't know what to do (this is not a daily occurrence) I feel very cold. And I do feel safe living in my head so what you wrote makes a lot of sense, but it doesn't mean I don't care. When my dog 18 yrs died and my husband a week later the perfect storm I felt nothing. Except kicked in the gut, frozen and .... dead. And the same reaction when my friend forever lost her husband and ,,,, I'm not sure but with me that need for temporary numbness competence and distance was in some measure the sound of my own steps in flight ... and I did return both times. Don't know if this makes sense but your comment definitely resonated with me. Many best wishes!
Gave me chills how accurate she is
Thank you both for having this conversation, Dr. Ramani’s examples had me squirming just like the host…😢 it explains so much. ❤️🩹 blessings to everyone
What a talent our truly empathetic doctor has. You can feel her authenticity and clearly good intent in her delivery of her subject. Dark empathetic are everywhere, think of your typical Gossip they have that dark ability to smile and react accordingly to get their daily feed from you. Ironically they are the weakest of people.
This is why I struggle to heal from my spouses affair, that happened years ago. There wasn’t ever any emotional empathy. He understood that it could hurt me, but never truly cared that it did.
It was his goal to hurt you. Never look back. God bless you!
When a man cant show love, he doesnt love himself and he is incapable of giving it, therefore he cheats and lies. That is a blessing in disguise for you. Dont go back to someone god saved you from or move on to another just like him. Give a loving man a chance someone open and u can have deep talks with not a person that neglects you and your love.
Wow! So powerful. Thank you. That couldn't have been explained any better.
„Cognitive empathy“ was a great learning for me. It explains why I felt so understood first - he could describe everything on point - but always ended up hurt and confused. No compassion, no action.
Holy heck. This is my ex narc to a T. Not only did they use my "secrets & vulnerabilities" that I shared early on against me, but constantly threw in my face that their "emotional IQ" was higher than mine. They were also a very successful business person which is something that you touched on. A lot of the "intel" that was used against me was not just used to argue, but to gaslight me. I watch a LOT of MedCircle & Dr. R's videos, especially on narcissism & gaslighting. Before that experience I had no idea. Now learning about it, my experience was textbook. It's unfortunate that we don't learn about what we didn't know until it's too late.
What an eye opener! Especially when you talked about someone not being over their grief. Just expected to snap out of it and move on. Many people like this in religious settings. Huge light bulb moment! Thank you!❤️
This video scared me into thinking so many people in my family have this trait. My mother passed away in 2020, I helped my dad take care of her for 5 years. My sisters would never help and when she passed I was hysterical but I had to plan her entire funeral because nobody would help. Of course my dad was writing the checks but that’s a bout all the help I got. Everyone was sad naturally but I was beyond. Throughout the last two years I’ve wanted to talk about her but with almost everyone I get shut down and nobody wants to talk about it. Only my dad did for awhile until about a year + he started dating again. At first I was upset but he’s 76 and should be happy with his remaining years. Still, sometimes I’d like to talk about my mom on a deeper level than,”yeah I understand why you’re still sad, but I have to go.” 🤷🏻♀️
@@tinaberggren1934 So sorry they're not grieving with you. Maybe if she still has friends around, they would be more receptive. I know I'm not grieving properly. I've had to shut the grief down to survive. But it's there. I hope you find something or someone to help you grieve properly.
@@tinaberggren1934 You definitely need to talk about your mom. And should be encouraged to even if that means until your last breath. I live in Michigan. Perhaps, you do too. If you needed an ear. Oh! I forgot about facebook messenger. Well, God be with you. I pray He will bring you comfort in unexpected ways. Also, it may help you to share with your dad how cutting you off, so to speak, when you want to talk about your mom, hurts your heart even more. Love is about work and sacrifice. Dads are to love their children and revere their mother. It takes work to listen for understanding. Maybe you two could go to counseling together. It is sacrificial to give up ones time and to open your heart to memories for your childs sake. Reverence for the woman who put her literal life on the line, each time she bears a child, does not end because of divorce or death. At least, that seems to me to be what God expects. Look up delivery mortality rates chart for around the world. The United States has no excuses. You will see how "literally," meant literally and you could prove it. Yes, he may deserve happiness now but not while overlooking yours. Love and hugs and prayer.💙
@@tinaberggren1934 I am so very sorry for your ongoing grief and sorrow; I know our grief doesn't just stop after we have buried our loved ones; I lost my husband of almost 44 years, after being his 24/7 caretaker at home for the year he was sick. I lost my mother two years later, but was unable to be with her because of covid. It has all created a bundle of trauma that is still heavy on my heart, and it will be 5 years since I lost my husband, in a few months...it never goes away or far from my mind, every day. And I don't mean in an unhealthy, out of control, crippling way, but the grief and the trauma are still healing, and to some extent, probably always will be. I'm not a young person, and I don't know if that has anything to do with how we grieve; I have been told that how long we grieve is how deeply we love, but I don't know about that; we all grieve in our own way, and it isn't always apparent how deeply sad we are. I certainly keep much to myself, mainly because I am far more in control of my feelings than I was in the first two years, when I was consumed by grief; it is not what controls my day to day anymore. But I would never, ever critique someone else's grief. I would always offer a hug, and an ear to listen if they want to go talk, because I think talking is very helpful, or Journaling, if everyone has disappeared or they don't want to hear about someone's grief anymore. I would never judge anyone for how they grieve, and I wish that people who do, would try to have a little more empathy, and also, it's a really good chance to practice the Golden Rule, as we never know when we might be the one needing some compassion. Be kind. It's not hard.
@@brookescott9598 Thank you, you’re very kind. I haven’t asked anyone to go to counseling probably because I’m the only one who would go. In fact, my family thinks I’m the “crazy one” because I have sought out therapy for many things in my life. I went to nursing school and took many psychology classes, so for me therapy is a “normal” thing to do. Unfortunately my family thinks it is sign of weakness and you should “suck things up” “don’t sweat the small stuff” “life happens” “everyone dies” “as soon as you’re born you start dying” So alright, all of that seems sensible but it doesn’t make me miss my mom any less, it doesn’t make watching her take her last breath any easier for me! I just don’t think they care as much as I do. That sounds mean, idk 🤷🏻♀️
omgosh! i told my narcissist that "wow you question almost like its surgical" and dr. ramani just said it!!! wow!!!
The way Dr. Ramani explaining resonates so deeply I am actually smoothing as you stated. Great questions being asked. I have so much gratitude. Thank you.
I experienced a relationship just like it. Troughout the relationship I hoped it would change and hoped for 7 (seven) years. I finally accepted the behaviour as being an act of being compassionate but actually not being interested at all. Very sad.
Someone in my life is exactly this way. When i was young and unmarried i chose to place my baby up for adoption and it was very hard emotionally. I tried talking to the baby's dad about how hard it was after the first time we talked and he's like "can you just get over this already?" And "quit blaming me". It really rings true that he knows how i felt but really just didn't care. 😥
Ok, He don't care. Kick him to the curb for good! This ain't somebody you want to share a lifelong commitment with. But one day you will find your child or they will find you. I'm sure of it.
Of course one can't get over it. I am so sorry! :(
@@aanderson6412 it is an open adoption. I get updates and contact with my baby
@@kathrynm2587 See? Let the child grow. They'll come find you. Good to know the adoptive parents aren't selfish about it. Lucky child. In this world, can any child have too much genuine love?
He doesnt kniw how u felt. And never will know. It wasnt the one carrying the baby and its comments dont shiw it ever tried to
I haven't even started this video, was just scrolling through the comments on this topic and realized right away this is something I need to hear!🌱
I REALLY APPRECIATE THE EXPLANATION. THANK YOU.
Wow! My 100% experience in my last „situationship“ with a divorced german protestant pastor. After we met on a Dating Platform and ca. 300 Mails over two month we came together for five days (my holidays in his town; over 250 km away). I experienced in this time only his cold intellectual diagnosis of my emotions/ feelings but a total lack of (feeling) showing compassion as I opened myself (with my wounds from a past relationship). I was shocked about his cold and distanced behaviour. I felt like an object for him but not like a beloved subject! I never assumed before that a pastor is so reduced as a private person/ man/ boyfriend. No deeper emotional connection/ relationship possible! I had to end the „ice - situationship“! In this case: Better to be Single (by Heart)!
A huge thanks to Dr. Ramani and the show. I've been a viewer since the beginning, and I am still taken aback by Dr. Ramani's ability to articulate new information in such an eye-opening manner, despite the topic being discussed in finite detail for umpteen years (and I have a BA in Psych). She never fails to add to the conversation.
Thank you so much for making this video, and Dr. Ramani you have saved my life again
This is the missing piece of information that finally makes the whole framework make sense. Thank you 🙏🏻
Amazing. Thank you for the distinction between this ‘fake’ empathy and real empathy. I had a boss like that and couldn’t figure out what was off, but I knew something was. I was so confused. This nails it! Thank you so much!
This is Excellent, it makes it Crystal Clear because it is confusing when they seem to have the empathy, but then use it against you. We perceive them as loving and capable of loving and then get the rug pulled out. Thank You So Much this Completely answers the back & forth questioning of ourselves.
So good to hear this! It helps to understand a lot of behaviour, and the reason why people often cause so much aniety anxiety
This is so good. Thank you, Dr. Ramani!
for those of us realizing this has been us at some point. been both compassionate and dark. know we can still do better 💫
there is always an opportunity to do better
This gave me clarity and closure that I didn't know I needed today. Thank you!
Me to my daughter and a friend of mine I knew something was off couldn't put finger on it started testing them both
Wow thankyou. This hits the nail on the head about what I went through as the scapegoat so well.
Dr. Ramani helped me escape a narcissistic triangle. Both parents and then unfortunately myself. I learned to make the most with what I can ❤
I was seriously thinking about how these are related a few days ago. I’m so glad you made this video ❤️ lol I’m not alone in noticing these parallels. You’re so spot on with everything and Thankyou for teaching me the term cognitive empathy. I always felt that difference but didn’t have a name for it.
This explains a lot to me too. I know a person who reads people. She is a powerful manipulator. If a person shifts their thinking, she can tell. In mid sentence she can turn on a dime to change what she was saying to keep gaslighting them. Or even to gaslight the whole room. She is interpersonally toxic... I would even say dangerous in that she sows chaos for people she doesn't like. She actually uses cognitive empathy with people she wants to use. It is to destroy the reputations of others. I knew the mechanics of it, but didn't know it had a name. What a revelation.
I’m no no v no @@velvetbeesmmm
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I think it’s important to point out that being cognitive empath is relevant sometimes too. Sometimes you can’t do anything for this person and you need to let them know you understand but not carry that pain or sadness to the point that it effects you. Surely no one goes out into the world to be a narcissist or a dark empath though? Aren’t their experiences the ‘nurturing’ that created them this way? Aren’t we all effected. From this I can see ppl labeling their partners are narcissists and dark empaths as a way of controlling them or as a way of breaking up with them. Where is the help for narcissists and dark empaths? The cure is loneliness and isolation?
I'm happy to see a positive comment on this. If we are to be truly loving people, we need to care what happens to everybody. Too many here use these articles as ammunition in their own private war on their spouses/exes/whoever. I am truly disappointed in Dr Ramani for telling people to stay away from "dark empaths"! These people need help as well. I got into psychology because I care about healing those with mental health issues, not to label and ostracize.
Yeah, I am mistrustful about all of the reply's on narcissism videos, because apparently everyone's damned ex is a narcissist. I have had ex's that were seriously disturbed and undoubtedly had personalty disorders of some type, but I don't spend all of my waking hours condemning them. I chose to date them, I have my own problems that they had to put up with, and they didn't choose their issues anymore than I chose my issues. If I say "my ex was a narc!", how do I know that I wasn't the narc? I have evil within me as surely as anyone else does, so I'm a bit uncomfortable with just assuming that "the other person" is the problem.
@@leoargyropoulos6551 exactly and also labelling someone a narcissistic is done professionally not by a randomer who went through a difficult relationship or was bullied as a child. I definitely don’t want to see anyone suffer but shouldn’t we be addressing the fact that YOU yourself might be the dark empath or narcissist. 🤷♂️ We are all human beings a human doing.
@@williamkoscielniak7871 yeah it’s like narcissist is the new buzz word that you ex is because they didn’t fulfil what you wanted.
Dr Ramani, If only more people would understand the way you do. The number of times "friends," who I finally shared with, have said "It couldn't have been that bad." to me just boggles my mind. And even worse is that I left the worst things out. 😢 It's a good thing I like my own company & can keep busy without being bored. ☮️💞🙏🏼
I love how she breaks things down. Because I share the same mindset. Great video
Wow thanks for this vid. Some people in my family are a lot like what you're describing here. Two people in particular tend to weaponise our vulnerabilities whenever there's an argument. I've only recently started understanding what's going on. My sister saw through them many years ago.
Thank you so much 💓 This is the way a toxic personality shows off . Saying something you like to hear and open your heart towards him or her Then acting something like takes an advantage just for him or her own.
Wow That is Deep! Thank you so much🙏🏽 Much Love to you💫
I see your knowledge in all the many different types of empathy has increased.
Matthew 24:12 - “And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.”
Cognitive empathy is what I call “the trap”. My stepmother is very good at it. She gets very friendly, asks a lot of questions or confesses something to me to get intel that she can use later against me. “We were talking (while she was confessing something and I agreed) and you said _____insert explosive comment taken completely out of context”. She loves to create family drama. I learned to never nod or agree. I would instead say “how awful it must be for you to feel that way” or some other innocuous statement, not agreeing, just acknowledging barely.I f I agreed that someone was awful TO her, then she would run tell the person that I said they were awful. I have not spoken to her in 25 years because she twists a knife very well.
Every person studying psychology should watch this. I happened on this by accident and I am amazed. Thank you.
I hadn't come across the term 'dark empath' before. Thank you for the eye-opener!
Thank you doctor. Your discussions are incredibly insightful to me as well as my journey with my diagnosis of bipolar. Listening to your conversations throughout the years has humbly put me in a place where I could embrace my diagnosis as a gift rather than a curse at this point of my life at 40 years of age. I can't thank you Enough! 🙏🏾
This was so helpful to distinguish different types of empathy. I have had many years dealing with people who do not show any true loving empathy for my chronic illnesses and lack of help in my life. I now have a way to think about the responses and actions or lack of actions of people around me. It is painful to hear flat statements or phony displays in words and brief facial expressions without any offer to reach out or express true care and concern.
Be very careful. Their idea of what true care and concern looks like may be different from your idea of what that looks like. And this is why videos like these can be troubling sometimes. If you read the comments, you have people who simply see something that looks like what they're seeing or hearing from someone (for example, a person saying, "You're not over that yet?" doesn't automatically make them a dark empath), but they lack the knowledge of Dr. Ramani to make a true and clear assessment. So, they'll "misdiagnose", for lack of a better word. In your case, what you see as a phony display might be a real display that you're not receiving for some reason. I go through that all the time. My depression (and I don't know if you have depression, so please don't feel like I'm saying that you have depression) won't allow me to receive a genuine display of affection or even a genuine complement. Actually, I think it's my low self-esteem, but that normally sticks in my mind while I'm going through a wave of depression. In short, I'm just saying that when you're judging the people around you, be very careful. I mean, maybe they are making an offer to reach out, but it's not the exact offer you want, so you don't give it any attention and continue to think that no one is trying to help you (I'm not saying anything is your fault, just to be very careful when you make an assessment and include yourself in that assessment of a situation). This is what I go through. People around me show genuine caring toward me (and different people have different ways of showing that they care), but it mostly doesn't hit with me, unless there's a big, strong hug that comes with their display, and I have to stay aware and conscious of that, so I don't think bad of them and get mad at them or don't start feeling sorry for myself and throw a pity party for one. My goal is to be a good manager of myself, and in order to do that, I have to be able to give other people the benefit of the doubt. If they're being phony, well, as long as they're not physically hurting me or trying to manipulate me into gaining something that only benefits them, then it's whatever. They can be phony, if that's what they want to do. I'm not going to let it bother me, and I'm not going to let myself think bad of people who are genuine but I'm only assuming are phony.
@@G360LIVE I needed to hear this! Thank you!
There is a fine line between being an emotional empath and unintentionally enabling a debilitating emotional state that someone you care about is going through (which is how people wind up identifying as their emotional state as a permanent attribute of their character, which is unhealthy and severely limits growth of that individual). When discussing emotions of others you really should address the full complexity of the subject especially when discussing the involvement of others around emotions. Life requires balance for healthy personal growth above all.
Yep
It’s people like you and me who don’t fall for these bandwagons that the emotional distraught do. It’s like their own little teenage click. That’s their so called safe spot because they all can tell their stories with each other because they know the other people who are in or were in, abusive relationships. Words so matter and people toss words around. It’s like candy to them. They want to hold on real right to throw trauma(s) by retelling the stories over and over and over again. To me, I see the proof in the thousand ‘likes’. Me and you we just get a few likes. Not that I care. I’m just noticing the difference, the pattern on people.
@calendarphotoscamera1 Canuck I agree. I’ve seen this myself too.
@@spiritual2020 Yes...exactly. Thank You for speaking to this. This is why I prefer a hermit's life pursuing my interests & creating art. Time is Art. Too much time spent in the affairs of others, while not tending to their own unresolved issues. I cut off a friendship because being in her field drained me of energy & debillitated me for days afterwards. I found myself making excuses not to visit her. She came over twice in 5 years. Says a lot.
@@alyjiyu I understand completely. I've had to do that with some family members. Same ole stories over and over and over again does in fact get draining. And that right there does nothing constructive. I've been there done that myself and I noticed it when I was doing and worked my damndest to STOP reacting/behaving in that way. For some (I suspect most) it takes decades for them to come to the realization of that truth. Facing ourselves in what WE DID that contributed to it requires courage.
Eye opening, Thanks Dr. Ramani & Kyle.
I appreciate knowing this info! I see unempathetic persons in receptionist positions, in medical positions. To the point, I went to a dental practice recently for treatment. The first appointment went ok. I then was scheduled for the hygienist and she was cold and robot-like. I endured two hours of cleaning and injections. I was ok with the treatment but was not ok with the way she treated me. I left the office with a twisted mouth as the injections affected my face. I asked her for a mask because my mouth was open! I then go to the receptionist and she says, "You owe 900 dollars!" I'm like, insult on injury! Hey, who put this doofus receptionist at the front desk?? I lodged a complaint online and she responded she would smile more next time, duh, NO apology for how she said what she said. I'm not going back there!
I had a friend that would talk about how sad other people had it, or how bad SHE had it........ but if I ever said anything about something that was going on with me, she either cut me off, or told me it was my fault.... Yeah, she was a horrid narcissist with a resentment cancer that will kill her someday.... UGH.... I keep her away from me.
I still don’t get how people can be like this. As long as I can remember I always had to babysit my grown ass mom who is a narcissist and even befriended people who were like her bc I didn’t know better and I was always the group therapist or they trash can they could dump all their problems in, not once has anyone of them asked me how I felt or what I went through. I know that when you are in relationship you shouldn’t expect anything in return but I still wondered if expecteding a little attention and love was to much to give just a hug and a few words of encouragement would have been enough honestly..
Wow, what a great warning! Glad I found this vid! Never been aware of this type of empath but something is telling me that I have met one long time ago. I just couldn't remember the person & what he said.
Love this channel! Thank you. I have grown so much ❤
I think i’m all over the place with this, when someone comes into the room i feel their frustration or happiness or anger with out even hearing them say anything. It makes me overwhelmed, I can’t attend funerals, even if i didn’t know the person well I break inside like they were my best friend. It’s me absorbing the energy:feelings of others around. NOW with that said after all these years in some cases im able to change my train of thought and have literally no emotion over somthing, in one ear and out the other. I’ll even start to do the exact things they’ve done to me (for example a malignant narcissists way of being) just so they know how it feels to be treated this way. I can be the nicest most helpful, empathetic person you’ve ever met but if you break the trust im done and my mind can’t go back to the way it was again. Something clicks and you lost me for good. Even if i seem the same, there’s the little part in the back of my head that doesn’t care anymore. So im a little complicated lol Huge empath some might say a heyoka empath but then mimic narcissistic trades to other narcissists that they’ve done to me but I guess mimic is heyoka traits. thoughts?
My ex was a dark empath….or what I believe he was a covert narcissist. He didn’t seek attention openly but acted in such a destructive way where he would sabotage everything and everyone in his life and I never understood why until I listened to the good DR and how much a narcissist hates themselves and feel they are not worthy.
Same with my ex.
This is so eye opening. Now that I see this, all the things she said were so telling. Unreal.
I don't like how she is describing acknowledgement of a person's feelings as a bad thing. It isn't always a bad thing, it is quite necessary, because you cannot walk around life feeling every single person's emotions at all times. Lacking empathy is also listed as a dark trait... this can lead people to question their own sanity and think they are bad for not feeling othe emotions of every single person that wants them too. while she may not be trying to say that, it is being expressed and can be understood that way.
Your explanations are always clear and to the point making it very easy to understand. The idea of a "dark empath" is new to me but now I remember many people who fit that description perfectly. Is it possible to be a dark cognitive only empath for some and an emotional and compassionate one for others? I have worked for many deceptive dark empaths who later showed their true colors and failed to honor their promised commitments.
this is so well-explained. thank you
Veeery informative, thank you for this video
This is really interesting. I usually have mostly cognitive empathy but that is mostly because I’ve been through an abusive childhood so I think it’s a way to protect myself