Is this Allowed? Wiring Electrical Circuits in Flex…
In this video I get out on site with my mate and UK electrician Marcus. We look at different final circuits that have been wired in flexible cable and show you some of the solutions you can carryout. I all so catch up with Ben who is carrying out 2 days work experience during his half term holiday.
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== 🕐 Time Stamps - Cut to the action 🕕 ==
00:00 - Wired in flex
00:35 - Orange flex
01:46 - Not looking good
02:11 - NO CPC
02:48 - Sockets wired in flex
03:29 - Improve the electrical connections
04:10 - No grommets
05:04 - New wiring added
05:54 - Garage wiring
06:05 - Lash up
07:18 - Socket and light
07:51 - The electrician has arrived on site
08:10 - Catch up with Ben Hook
08:35 - College jobs
08:53 - Wood plugs
Videos are training aids for City and Guilds (C and G) and EAL courses Level 1, 2, 3 plus AM2, AM2S and AM2E.
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I love the way Gary always uses every opportunity as a learning experience, Top boke!
Massive thanks for the wonderful comment
I worked in a few Sainsbury’s store upgrades around 2010, all the lighting and power circuits were wired in YY cable. Compared to T+E systems the Zs was always good due to the full size cpc. Just my 2pence worth. Cheers
😂 on a positive note the flex matches the orange tiles 😂
And his jumper
Gary's years of experience as a tutor with young trainees shows through as ever: inspirational and great to see!
Wow what kind words - massive thanks it’s very much appreciated 👍🏻
Getting the nails of the clips to work in mortar - or brick - or anything that tends to explode on you - pin plugs are the answer . Wonderful things that few electrical wholesalers seem to stock . Cheap as chips and do the job perfectly . They’re designed to ! Drill a hole pop one in - and the nail of the clip clip bangs into the plastic of the pin plug really nicely. Reminds me I need to buy some more !
Awesome to see someone getting out working and to have that oppertunity.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
As a retired electrician, I would have got the sack doing this. It's a horror show compared to a high standards electrical contractor. But, if the flex is double insulated as normal cable is and it's rating ok, then I see no harm using flex. We used heavy duty flex on machines, 4 core flex , earth and 3 phase supply.
Flex usually has a 2.5 cpc. Twin only has a 1.5. So long as it had a BS number, it’s fine
Pure envy on that driveway - 3no. grey bins? 3No???
🦾
Assuming all the relevant calcs are taken into account... starting with circuit design etc. as laid out in regs. . Right through to terminations ...OK. then we come down to Cost 😮
The question isn’t if you can use flex or not, it’s when you look at the state of the wiring that’s on show, what the hell is going on with what you can’t see.
Motor homes are often wired in Flex on the 240v side.
exactly as rigid twin and earth can break due to the vibrations
So are caravans….mine is…not had any issue with cable fatigue
And narrow boats too, I believe T+E would fail inspection.
Isn’t this the property that Artisan Electrics were at the other day!
No
Many industrial / plant wiring is done in HOFR flex , its expensive of course , but is a pleasure to work with and terminate ( always ferruled ) , and you really couldn't use solid core on the likes of control panel wiring ( where the panels require occasional opening for maintenance etc).
I have come across older machinery with their control panels wired in solid core wire, and one of the most common problems is that the connections break off right at the terminals. Because the wire is solid and holds it shape, the break is not always obvious. I think that a house wired in flex would be completely acceptable, especially because the CPC would be the same cross section as the current carrying conductors.
@@whizzo94 Agreed!
@@whizzo94 Flex only becomes annoying when you've got a really tight box and need to cram too many wires into an old-fashioned choc block. Stranded wires are always slightly larger in outside diametre than the same CSA solid wire because there's gaps between the circular strands and that can make a difference, forcing you to use one size larger choc blocks that no longer fit into the box. These days with lever Wagos that's no longer an issue though. The other downside is having to spend the time crimping ferrules all over the house.
In boats it is the regulations that circuits are wired in flex, usually Arctic, HO7, or soft heat resisting, the main reason why Twin and Earth is forbidden on boats is engine vibration can fatigue solid copper core cables.
Did I hear “omit the need for an over current protection device if the load is less than the cable rating” when looking at the under cabinet lighting supply? Surely the cable needs to be rated to handle the maximum PFC limited by the circuit protection? I don’t think 0.5mm2 flex will fair very well under fault conditions when protected by a 32A circuit breaker!?
Well done Marcus helping young people get that hands-on experience that you just can not get at college.
He is a top bloke - thanks for the great comment 👍🏻
I guess that I am well out of date, the last regs I looked at was the 12th, but I have an excuse I am retired. I have always thought that flex was not a great idea, always use T&E.
Flex is less likely to snape on terminals than solid core.Stranded used often in the aircon trade all ne it with end conectors.But thats another topic
in the states, "flex" refers to flexible metallic conduit. what you see there is extension cord.
Is that Garys Porsche?
100% NOT 🤣🤣
I think it was to bring the uk in line with European regs we let sockets be wired in flex?
This is where it gets tough...having to tear the ass out of wall sockets etc to find these indiscretions. I'm going with readings. If the Z values come up good for both LN and LE, and maybe a quick peek behind the socket ( loosen screws) then done!
That conduit might bow from the uv light after a few years because of the saddle spacing. Hard to tell as the roof might protect it. Only a little observation. Good info as always 👍
Thanks for commenting and watching
Great video, would you kindly tell me the correct name for the plates fitted around the light switches?
I just Googled "light switch surround" and adverts for "finger plates" came up.
Flex is actually better protected than Twin, but it screams bodge job because its more expensive to buy, i would guess what someone had handy....
When seeing what appears to be an undersized cable on a protective device, I'm still surprised to hear electricians refer to whether the cable can be overloaded (so considering overload protection - suggesting that it's ok if it cannot), without also considering short cct and earth fault protection i.e. the three components of overcurrent protection.
BS7671 makes pretty clear where/what is acceptable here. Regards short protection, the fault current at the end of even a bit of 0.75mm² that is a few metres long is still going to be more than high enough to magnetic trip an MCB sized for a normal final circuit...
@@intercity125 are you confusing the amount of current required to operate the protective device, as in shock protection, with the current involved in short cct, that requires the requirements for the true adiabatic equation to be met - I2t
@@johnhoward2104 I was thinking more of ADS clearing times... If you apply the adiabatic equation and check the withstand capability, it's also not a problem... Why not go run those numbers? You'll find that for any conceivable fault current in a residential property it'll meet the withstand requirement.
@@johnhoward2104You can write superscripts here: I²t
@@intercity125 Is it? I thought that was precisely one of the main reasons for the existence of fused plugs in the UK, protecting appliance leads against short circuits. The other one is obviously overload protection for power strips.
Bizarre, While installing a security alarm in a new build property fairly local to me , some 15-20 years ago, I did discover that the ring final circuits were wired in 3 core flex with similar to 3 pin garden extension leads to extend the what I can only summit were fixed cable lengths 🤔🤷🏻♂️, as there were multiple’s of these found under 1st floor floor boards while finding a route for my fused spur for the CPU .
as an industrial fitter I was thought absolutely no to using flex inside walls or conduit because it can overheat, you are allowed to use it as a trailing lead or as a final circuit pinned to a wall and open to the air so it won't overheat, I know domestic regs are different and that's not my area
Why should it overheat if the conductor area is the same as that of an equivalent cable with solid conductors?
@helps9939 honestly I don't know, it's just what I was told by the electrician who trained me, but I have often wondered the exact same thing. Flex can overheat tho, I once got a job at the factory where a flex cable had burned up, it was powering a 30A heating element in a bag sealer, the cable was routed across the room from the wall inside a round plastic 22mm conduit that had been wrapped in foam pipe insulation by a machine operator who kept banging his head. The cable size was well within spec and it had been fine 24/7 for 15 years until it got the insulation, then it failed in less than a week, but pipe insulation is more insulating that walls, I expect there's some math that can work this out but I don't know it
Normally the content on this channel is excellent but I am left feeling confused after watching this video, i.e. Can you wire in flex if it meets the right conductor size i.e. 2.5mm or not? Also what counts as a fixed installation? still learning hence the questions as I watched the video thinking the issue was the state the installation was in not necessarily it being in flex but then the comments below of confused me further. Gary you need to pin the correct answer.
The fixed part of the installation would be the sockets , switches distribution board , fixed appliances ( like a shower ) . The things that stay when you move house . Appliances like kettles toasters have different regulations . I worked on portable buildings last year and they are all wired in flex , including showers in 6mm 3 core flex . You get good R1+R2 readings because the cpc is the same as the line .
There is no reason to use flexible cable, if correctly rated for the load it's exactly the same at the point of carrying current. It's more practical to install, but the reason why solid cable is used it's only a matter of cost. Here in Italy, for example, solid cable is not used, since using flexible cable (either singles if enclosed in conduits, such as inside walls, or multicore if external) is more practical to install.
No decent fully qualified and trained to the standards of the 13th edition would wire any fixed installation in flex. What is the best uk wiring standards coming to. GHU
Clearly being trained to these standards does not guarantee that the person understands basic physics.
Missed opportunity to talk about safety around potential asbestos fuse guards in old fuse boxes.
Dont see the issue with flex. Its normal to wire a flex out the back of a fused spur which uses the same terminals as a socket
I guess the main problem is a lot of diyers and kitchen fitters inability to make it off properly as well as some so called competent electricians
Have to say even as a diyer, that job with the strimmer cable is shocking.
Is it legal, is it possible, to complete enquiries before contract when selling a house with this kind of wiring?
Nothing in law that says wiring has to be to X standard before buying. Think about it. If I buy a derelict property, the chances are very high that the wiring will not meet modern standards at all, let alone 16th Edition or any edition before. It was the same when I bought the place I live in now. The previous owner had knocked down walls etc, left cables dangling. The bank had repossessed it. I just paid the money and bought it, knowing that the electrics would need sorting out. Buyer beware. Most mortgage companies would require a survey before handing the cash over. One reason the other buyer in the bidding had to pull out. I was paying cash, they needed a mortgage. And they got turned down.
@@bertiesworld So you can buy something that you couldn't rent? Seems mad to have such different standards? I take your point about a derelict house but no one is proposing to live in a derelict house whereas a house buyer is, presumably, going to live in it or let it to someone else who will?
@@BrianSmith-ow9gyLandlords have liability towards others, in providing rentals. Thats why theres a higher standard imposed.
Why would the seller be the one to 'complete enquiries'? Unless the buyer has specifically requested further details, following on from a survey.
@@Benzknees Because that's the law in England and Wales.
Might sound stupid but only experience can get you to clip in hard mortar or brick using the hammer correctly. Something you just can't teach.
I confused coz a lot of conductor. Here 3C only. Line 1 line 2 with ground.
If it’s wired in flex you can bet the whole circuit isn’t so what you put down on the cert ? 2.5/1.5 t&e or 2.5/2.5 flex. I’d be ripping the bodge out.
If you see flex behind a socket .Straight away you know the rest of the house is going to have major issues. Often flex is unbranded , so not to standard . I In my opinion it’s not acceptable.
Of course it is!
If I rewired my house I’d do it in MICC ❤
👍🏻
ALL Tesco's buildings wired in flex - it was the norm. aprox 15 years ago, every single Tesco building - hundreds of them were wired in flex at Britspace modular buildings and passed every test with no issues, it was in the spec.
I worked in a new Tesco build. All fixed Wiring was in galv conduit. Sockets, lights the lot back to the distribution boxes.
Nothing wrong with flex - just the way it was done would make me question the installation
The only colour of any cable on the outside of a building should be Black. Any other colour will be suscepitble to UV degradation, and therefore NOT good.
As a competent kitchen fitter i cannot see any problems, its cheaper to buy hedgecutters and cut the flex off than buy the correct cable..a few choc blocks if the cable is not long enough , job done..
The future's bright, the future's orange.
Of course you can wire in flex, nothing mind bending about it 😂
Sorry flex being used for fixed wiring is not for me, plus the cost of it an expensive way to do it.
My sockets are wired in bell wire
🤦🏻♂️
Looks like the kind of job an electrician would do at home 😂
Great point 🤣🤣
I spoked to the IEE many years ago.and they said clearly that flexible cord must not be used for fixed wiring.
2.5 mil on a radial circuit for sockets ???????
2 bootlace ferrules in one socket terminal is not an acceptable connection. I would say the ‘competent person scheme’ needs support from a ‘competent scheme support scheme’! 🙄
Pretty much all shocking, in more ways than one.
Not mentioned (I think) but surely the biggest problem is the power coming from outside on the orange cable and into a plug???? Take the plug out and you've got live pins.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wiring in flex.
Except not the most cost effective
You’re right. Actually, mobile homes like caravans etc. Regs say it should be wired in flex!
@@mathewashley3954that’s due to stranded having better grip on the terminal when under constant vibration like driving
@@Resetlifeshorts you are correct.
2.5mm flex is rated at 25 amps.@@altvamp
Know it not as flex isn’t rated for permanent mains connection. But I could be totally bloody wrong Wow the IET says it’s acceptable to wire final circuits in flex , just proves what a bunch of pilchards they are . Any decent spark that does is a pilchard. It’s cheap and it is lazy. Just my opinion sorry.
Not at all. If rated to the circuit, and ferrelled, don't see what the issue is..
We routinely do commercial work which is entirely done in flex. 2.5mm 5core for lights 4mm 3core radial for spurs/sockets All fully specified by consultant, with the caveats being it MUST be bootlace ferruled at ALL terminations (including wagos which is a pain since its not needed)
Explain what's wrong with it.
I work in a factory. We use SY flex cable nigh on all the time.
It certainly isn't cheap...
You can't wire circuits in flex because you are only allowed to connect to various sources over a maximum distance
So what do you make of the likes of 521.9 and 721.521.2, for example?
What do you mean?
The "maximum" cable length is determined by its load current and the 4% maximum voltage drop from the supply consumer unit. I ripped out all the T+E in my workshop and replaced with 3 or 4 core flex because 1) the "Earth" conductor was undersized and thus easily damaged and 2) the constant vibration caused conductor cable failure
As a Canadian, this is incredibly confusing and sketchy. Competent personski? Polish electrician?? Wiring an oven by an ungrounded nonmetallic extension cord on a brick wall should land the contractor in jail.
Your colours are wrong active is ment to be red not brown natural ment to be black not blue