Is Gaijin Right about Abrams Hull Armor??
2024 ж. 9 Мам.
223 699 Рет қаралды
With the introduction of the M1A2 SEP V2 and the premium M1A1HC to the game, a lot of people have noticed that the Abrams tanks are not performing so great in the game when compared to the other top tier tanks...
Patreon: / redeffect
Outro: "face away" - svard
Gentlemen! Gentlemen! Order, please! This can all be settled with grace and civility. Bring out the classified documents.
Ah, all old kgb pensioners like putin himself wouldn't even dare to imagine all high levels espionage they did in good old days replaced and rendered obsolete by bunch of nerds with classified documents to win arguments against another nerds.
LMAO, don't dare them, someone might actually do it.
Nice try, FSB
@@genosse_ryoka Fsb are equivalent of FBI but for external job is SVR department
As a reminder: Leaking classified documents is *_T U R B O I L L E G A L_*
Hope y'all are ready for when an Abrams tanker leaks the armor docs to prove Gaijin wrong.
Yes we are
this whole thing is actually an fsb operation to get said tanker to do said thing
a certified warthunder moment lmao
Like dude the abrams true armor is probably light years ahead of what gaijin has
As a 19k watching people bitch about shit the Abrams is is amusing, most of us that know ab this just laugh honestly
Abrams went from 55 tons to 67 tons. The extra weight is the American operators.
Whoa whoa american operators and in field snacks, they need their processed sugar to survive.
@@onri_ They are probably more radioactive than the DU also.
@@onri_ radioactive zogslop
72 tons. Muscle is heavier than fat
Americans having muscle?
As a 19k I really don’t care but the Abrams is definitely not a plastic water bottle
Its Top Tier. Everything is a plastic water bottle. The Japanese and Italians are literally wet paper that can shoot 3 times faster than you.
it's a very heavy metal bottle
I just want a spall liner for the tanks
why do you want a spall liner for it if it just doesn't have one though.@@powerfulbeing4634
How do you know it? Was it ever shot by more or less relevant APFSDS?
The thing about the Abram’s and tankers is that even we don’t really know that much about the armor we just know that what evers in there can definitely stop a tank round
Abrams tankers might not know anything about their tanks. But every person with an opinion on the matter knows ten Abrams tankers who know everything about the Abrams.
not like we have 20 years of first hand accounts in combat with the tank. sure bubba its all just, made up yuri@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755
You "Hope" that it can stop a round or ATGM if it hits from the front. Because if it hopped to hit from any side + back it's gg
if you were in desert storm and were hit by the dollar store T72 APFSDS than yeah. but i would be surprised if it could stop more modern shells as consistently. But then again its not like anyone knows how good the armor is
@@Zilliguythe dollar store apfsds is crazy lmao
the US clearly wont show the specifics of their main battle tank, however simply for game balance purposes its a bit wild that the abrams doesnt get any armor upgrades whatsoever nor does its era get upgraded or really add anything but a bigger silhouette while russian tanks get heavy upgrades all around. Not even considering the other nations that also get substantial armor upgrades. You can see how that seems unfair for US mains.
My favorite is the fact that DU doesn't do according the the Russians or Gaijin. Because the US just uses a more expensive material to get no benefit. Just like they cherry pick anything and everything they want to nerf something with the US star on it into rubbish. Looking at you M18.
Becuz abama was shaking random sessions some time back. Now sides turned
@@WandererJester yeah, US likes expensive toys, like someone didn't know
@@WandererJester I think they choose DU since it have very high density similar to tungsten yet at the lower price than Tungsten used in other MBT
@@Rururudenko DU is preferred to other metals, because of its high density, its pyrophoric nature (DU self-ignites when exposed to temperatures of 600° to 700° and high pressures), and its property of becoming sharper, through adiabatic shearing, as it penetrates armour plating.
Amazing that the Abrams went from 55 tons to 67 tons without adding any armor
McD Upgrade pack.
Issue with adding all these modern tanks is that the armor for the most part is classified. Gaijin in turn has to "estimate" the armor values and in turn either overpowers a tank based on "paper numbers" (Russian tanks in general) or underpowers it (M1).
@@danh1060that’s what they did for the M1A2 and M1A1HC. They just increased armor by %50.
@@danh1060 The paper numbers thing is a really huge issue, you will notice whenever you look up US equipment still in use there is a (Unclassified) tag next to whatever specs are provided. for example a lot of missiles that are used on our modern jets have a flat and somewhat short range number provided like 100Km (Unclassified) with circumstantial evidence showing that it may exceed the provided stats by about 50%. meanwhile Russia will do things like state the maximum possible under perfect conditions and state that as the factory specifications for things. their Khinzal missile for example with a speed of Mach 10 which is only achieved during a portion of its flight before the missile slows down significantly during the last 25% or so of its trip to the target. if it maintained Mach 10 all the way to target patriot missile systems could almost never intercept it successfully. China is even more difficult to pin down and harder to trust because nobody has ever gotten to take a look at the guts of Chinese equipment that wasn't a close Ally to China.
Make sense since the crew weight is around 5 Tons each
0:28 Wow I didn’t think my fellow Japanese players were so sigma at top tier especially when the Type 10 has non-existent armor
adapt and overcome instead of cry and complain. It sucks but we do it
"No armor is best armor!" - motto of every Japanese player
Тhe Type 10 is kinda op with its reload though and relying on armor in this buggy game is a bad idea anyway.
@@quan-uo5ws As long as it stops most autocannon fire, it's good enough. ;)
@@Slavic_Goblin I mean, it doesn't. All autocannon APFSDS can frontally pen Type 10 in game.
Gaijin has introduced many many systems and protections to russian tanks that have been only tested for once or only prototyped. And these vehicles stand normally in the russian tech tree.
Yes, and those are individual vehicles, which i support for other tt's as well. so, if there is avariant of the abrams with du in the hull - add it. but that doesn't mean all other abrams variants have du in the hull.
Still they not necessarily give them declared characteristics.
T-80U with thermal imagery : One prototype built but Gaijin implements it Abrams with 5 confirmed units with DU hull armor : Only 5 Abrams had it sorry we won't correct it
What vehicles would those be? I can only think of the early APS (which were in actual use) they have, with the one off prototypes generally as special event or premium vehicles
@@Svannuta T-80U with thermal one prototype ? may I ask for a source, even though, the thermal upgrade could be easily named T-80UE-1 if that was true, as T-80UE-1 is just T-80U with better FCS and optics
As a former Abrams tanker I've heard anecdotal evidence that the M1A2 Abrams has DU hull armor, reports from deployed tankers who report that hits to the hulls and even the side skirts of A2 and A2 SEP tanks required CBRN/HAZMAT responses and yellow material coming out of armored side skirts when they are hit. All were at least second hand statements however and I don't have a primary source from a tanker who took a hit themselves nor have I seen any instruction to do so in any manuals so take this with a grain of salt.
But do you have access to sekrit dokuments that prove it? You know what to do.
It's classified they are going to just put that info in a manual. Just serving myself if I need to k ow then that information will readily available if they deem individuals don't need to know then it won't be put out where anyone can read it. It will be put out that something is being used or not but if it's a secret that they want to keep close, then only those that need to know will know the specifics of said information. So second and 3rd hand sources ar going to be the best you'll get on such a topic.
@@furious_wrath7079 classified lol. All sorts of things in the US are classified, even false and untrue info.
@@cdgncgn I'll give you a big ole surprise there are certain people that are considered classified in different countries revealing their names can be a big ole jail sentence.
@@JAnx01 Technically, the US Government and Military isn't allowed to lie to a US Citizen. If someone applied for a freedom of information act pull on the armor composition of the M1A2 in reference to Depleated Uranium armor, the Government would have to provide the documents, now its no guarantee how much would be censored out, but it could prove that the abrams does have depleated uranium in the hull.
I'm a M1A2 gunner ATM, there's different tanks with either an M or U suffix for the v3 and the same was true when we had the V2s, as far as I can tell there's no difference between the tanks. Best guess would be whether the turret and the hull were originally mated to each other during initial production of the Abrams
Was going to post the same 8 years as a 19k. Good luck. See you in Fiddler's Green.
T-90M is V3 worst nightmare 😂
@@RMD9455 T-90M lost in Ukraine and they haven't even used the Abrams yet
@@RMD94 No. Just like any other tanks, its biggest nightmare is an artillery barrage. T-90M does NOT go tank hunting. It's a mobile protected direct-fire artillery piece, and is used as such: destruction of enemy fortifications. That's why it's loaded with primarily HE-FRAG ammo. That ammo is the reason for the infamous turret pop. NATO tanks don't carry that kind of ammo, though if they did, they'd pop just the same.
@@wantedpumpkin1446 Yes, in vast majority of cases to artillery barrage. Abrams would be stopped by arty and then penned by drones and killed. No need to send a T-90M against it when a Krasnopol and Kornet-M are plentifully available.
Listen all I’m saying is we were told to quarantine the tank and call hazmat if the following was punctured/cracked/penetrated: the UFP, LFP, Turret cheeks, and #1 skirts. I served on M1A2sep and sepV2. It’s possible that the order was put out for sepv2s and got applied to all tanks in service either out of negligence or secrecy. The weight has been constantly increasing across models. Sepv3 replaced about 8 tons of wiring with 3 tons of fiber optic yet is overall roughly 13 tons heavier than the previous model. Do with that information what you will.
It is absurd to think the US hasn't improved the hull protection of the Abrams since the 70s when it was first produced.....with how much the weight has increased there has to be more armor.
@@legogenius1667 Its frankly just Gaijin trying to pretend they care about realism when the answer is their own skewed sense of balancing the game. The real issue is the lack of spall liners, honestly. im fine with hull weak spots, although the UFP really should be harder to pen.
@@M3RUL3Z Well if so they're doing a terrible job at it. The Abrams has one of the lowest winrates of any of the top tier MBTs.
@@legogenius1667 gaijin has done a terrible job with ground batttles for the better part of a decade now. Its oppressively unfun
@@M3RUL3Z I'll second that. I really wish there was a true competitor game in the same niche as War Thunder which would force Gaijin to be less greedy and incompetent, and offer a less aggressively monetized option.
Whether the M1A2 and the sep versions have depleted uranium or not, it should still have reinforced armor, stated by a document by the secretary of defense. There is no way in hell the M1A2 and the sep versions use a hull directly from the M1 Abrams from 1980
Why not? Doctrine presumes that Abrams will use hull down position and turret was upgraded many times.
@@Pechenegus Yes but all available data + logic shows that you still need to keep hull armor up to date. Modern APFSDS rounds can pass through several meters of dirt with little energy loss. So if you're hull down, a round could be shot low, go through the hill you're hiding behind, and penetrate your hull if it is not sufficiently armored. While the hull does not need to be as armored as the turret, saying its armor doesn't matter at all is crazy talk, and would never be accepted by any engineer or protection analyst, of which the US has many. There is zero chance, and I mean zero, that the SEP V2 still has the same armor package on the hull as the original M1A1 Abrams. Even without DU, it's been improved. New thermals don't weigh 10 tons.
No new tank hulls have been made in the US since the 1970s
@@davidrobertson5700 That's just blatantly untrue. Even the M1A1 was produced in the 80's.
@@NatoStorm not , go check then I shall accept your apology. Thanks
Hope no-one releases any secret documents for the FIFTH time
It’s been more than 5, of I had a nickel for every time a document has been released I would have almost a dollar
@@apersondoingthings5689 It's 14 leaks at the moment.
@@burningphoneixmost of the 'leaks' have just been export restricted documents that were already available online behind a paywall
@@burningphoneix still close enough to a dollar
Not knowing the armor thickness and composition hasnt really been an issue for gaijin as we see on the leopard 2A7V, one of whiches main upgrade compared to the 2A6 and older is an improved frontal hull armor, yet in game the 2A7V still has the same armor there as the 2A6 😂
вы ошибаетесь , у 2а6 броня в корпусе 450 мм у 2а7 650мм . там же видно дополнительные модули брони !
If it is, how come my Svinets doesn't pen it frontally? Not even the driver port is a killshot now as the sights just eats my 3BM60 or it slides into the turret cheeks.
@@pilotman9819 лоб корпуса леопарда 2а7 теперь 650мм а был 450
@@pilotman9819 that’s the add on armor, the hull composite itself should be better than the hull composite found on the 2a6
@@pilotman9819 Gaijin did indeed give it an additional armor wedge in the front, but in reality the whole internal frontal hull composite block should have been upgraded.
Will we get a video about the M2 Bradley vs T90M video?
Does it mean that the M242 is a bad gun? M791 is a bad shell? You can’t take it on board from 20-30 meters with two barrels, after flying over the FPV tank, the repelled anti-tank gun and the tank were stopped only by the reverse gear and a tree? Yes, even a tree had a better chance of stopping a T-90M than a Bushmaster =) Better look at how a 2A4 is stopped from a kilometer away by a 2A42 cannon, that’s where the power is 💪 And most importantly, all the operators were in place and didn’t run anywhere =) But you know What didn’t the Russians see on the battlefield? M1A1, as it were, has already captured 120,000 in 4 months of the offensive of the Russian Federation and repulsed 8,000 in 15 months of the counter-offensive of Ukraine. And the reason? Russia doesn’t know how to fight, we watch the video, and there they kill Russians, they can’t do anything against the West, intelligence is free 24/7, radio intelligence, there are no factories, and they just supply weapons, I can’t understand anything, how the Russians manage to always receive from everyone, never be able to do anything, everything is worse for them, and they come to Berlin, and they seize 120,000 kilometers of Ukraine or 20% of the territory. Can you imagine if you give them brains and good weapons?
@@SuperTpyc I just want to see the funni man:(
So I remember asking an instructor what the differences were between the first sep and the sep v3 and v3 and honestly he was pretty unsure himself but when you actually look at the tanks side by side which we had at basic as training tanks since different army units had different variants, and the size difference is insane, the v3 is huge in weight and thickness the v2 is a lot thicker than the normal sep as well, plus m829A4 is a thing id love to eventually as well.
people complaining about armour thicknesses and other boring stuff when real ones know what really matters is that sep v2's tile armour makes it by far the drippiest abrams to date
Abrizzler
The thing people seem to not understand is not every abrams has du armor and the ones with it are the exact same vehicle. It has no new name. Russia on the other hand literally has a nomenclature for every upgrade V (Explosive) K (commander) D (DROZD, Diesel) B (modified) U (heavily modified) (improved) M (modernized/Export) S (Export) For russia, there is no "one of them had it so all of them should" if a t-72 is different from the base model in any way. Its getting a different letter or an obr. By its name to we know what happened to it Example T-80B T-80BV T-80BVM T-80BVM Obr. 2016 T-80BVM Obr. 2023 T-72A T-72AV T-72S (M1) T-72B T-72B Obr. 1989g T-72B2 Rogakta T-72B3 T-72B3M obr. 2023
Exactly, it's especially true when every day Abram's are going through upgrades to better versions of hard/ soft ware or getting different packages installed
While you are correct about most of those letters, there's some confusion here as A, B and U are not related to 'modification' but rather which factory model it is, so if you look at the T-80 as an example, the base model is the T-80, however it was later upgraded with the B model, then later with the A model then lastly the U model, each one from a different factory, while the T-72 was first upgraded with the A, then later the B, but was never designed in the factory designated U. Also M means modernized in most times, but it can also mean export if it's an older vehicle such as the T-72M
@@vonvonvonvonvonvonvonvonvo7009 U means improvement. And it was only used only for the T-80 line. It's still technically a modification or an improvement because of the turret being completely redesigned and B is usually used to indicate a modification upon a the tank. The T-80B and T-72B both are up gunned and up armored versions of there base counterpart and A is typically used to designate the first change or an alternation between models (however whatever the fuck the ussr did in the 1970s with the T-80 made it confusing considering it goes T-80, T-80B, T-80A T-80AV (BV) and then U, where the fuck did U come from?? Like i understand The A was essentially the U but why?). Still don't know what E means though Essentially A,B,U are improvements upon early models to then be used as the basis for later modifications A usually is the earliest version, B is usually the next modification and U is innate to the T-80 for some reason
@@leschroder7773 there's also a T-72BU program, but later series production model renamed it to T-90
T-72S and T-72M1 are different; T-72S uses the same armor as the T-72B and the T-72M1 as the T-72A
I was a tank operator in the 90s with the M1A1s. The Army used to tell us that the depleted uranium armor hauls were not sold to foreign countries. Basically, the American M1A1 heavy common is only made for the U.S.A. and Canada. Foreign countries who buy the tank get a cast iron hull. The depleted uranium hull could take any MBT round to the front and survive (at least in the 90s). I've seen T72 rounds stick to front hull like ladder steps. Of course you can still shoot the exhaust vents in the rear with a 50 cal or better and disable the tank. BTW. For you infantry men out there, you cannot kill the crew by shooting into NBC port on the side with your pistol. I've herd that so many times.
Canada doesn't use the M1 Abrams. It is equiped with Leopard 2A6M and Leopard 2A4 of various configurations.
IDK. In the 90s they talked about selling the Abrams to Canada. @@philipped.r.6385
"cast iron hull" Lmao, yeah right.
bro, cast iron armour is not a thing.
Were those t72s soviet frontline variants?
Can’t wait to see you cover that T-90M getting shwacked by two Chadleys
LOL
while i love shitting on russia, they did disable the optics and the crew rammed a tree and bailed. so..yes...it was out of combat, but it didn't get penetrated or destroyed
indeed but how did the turret spin out of control?@@thecursed01
Feels the same when i play war thunder and they bully mbts hahahaha
@@thecursed01 Where I come from that is called a mission kill. Tank was also later destroyed. So that means that Chadleys destroyed a T-90M. I never said that they penetrated them, and I think a lot of the comments similar to mine are saying the same thing… but salty Russians are just assuming that means they Bradley’s penetrated the tank. Trying to make a formula for “Bradley’s did this, crew did this, tank did this and drone destroyed tank” is just a long winded way of saying “Chadley’s schwacked a T-90M”
I was told by a friend that according to weight statistics alone that the armor is reflective of a difference in armor composition, especially seeing the spike in mass that youd attribute to heavier armor materials like DU. I had another unofficial claim years ago from an ex-abrams tanker who stated that they were instructed to bail from their tanks and destroy the Abrams if it was compromised due to the armor being DU, rather than recover it. They stated that DU acts similarly to composites and shatters, and that they were told by instructors that radiation was a concern if the hull was breached. Now from my knowledge DU isn't radioactive enough to cause long term harm unless it's embedded inside you, but again I cannot verify any if these claims regardless and there could be many other reasons, if true, to resort to destroying the tank rather than recover it because of the risk of the DU contamination.
Radiation might be a valid concern on armor breach because fine uranium dust from fragmented and powdered armor plates will fill the interior of the vehicle and the crew if alive will breathe it in, if the crew have gas masks with particle filters they might be okay, but if not that's guaranteed lung cancer.
@@resonance314 "your lung cancer was determined to be non service related"
@@resonance314 that is a good point, I assumed that there's a risk of DU shrapnel, but DU dust would be far more concerning since shrap can be surgically removed. Something else I was told is that apparently Gaijin had somewhat poor justification by stating that the Abrams chassis could not mount DU due to it's weight, but to be frank that hadn't stopped any tanks in WW2 and there's still the fact that the weight is what it is. I still think it's bizzare that all this controversy is over a game that very loosely simulates realism.
Uranium dust is a serious heavy metal poisoning and incendiary hazard, in addition to the (somewhat limited) radiation hazard. If it's compromised internally, bailing is a good idea in general. Saying "Radiation!" just gets the troops to move fast and not ask questions.
@@resonance314DU (as in, DU thats been shot at) is toxic only if you ingest it,its not radioactive,its similar to lead,it wont kill you just because you touched it, but if you dare eat acidic food on lead plates you're gonna suffer.
Hey Red, could you also consider a video about the Leopard 2A7Vs armor? There is a huge controversy about that as well. We (the community) believe the internal composite armor of the hull was upgraded and that the addon armor should be stronger. Currently Gaijin decided to not only keep the old hull armor (2A5, 2A6) but also make the front hull addon armor WEAKER than the Swedish one. Their thesis is based on the Swedish trials, which claim that the Swedish solution had better protection. Problem is that these trials are over 25 years old and the Swedish armor was also developed together with IBD Deisenroth. It just makes no sense to us that Germany would adopt a weaker additional armor package on the brand new 2A7V than what Sweden has been using for decades and what is essentially also a German development.
Also add that the 2a5 and a6 don’t have hull spall liners while the 122s do
The 2A7V is currently the strongest tank in the game. Isn't that enough? Do German mains need an additional crutch again? 🤣
Look at the TT win rates for Germany compared to America most american a2 sepv2 players have 20-30% win rates whilst 2a7 players have 50-70% win rates (it also doesnt help gaijin keeps throwing premium abrams like the kvt or click bait into top tier america) the 2a7 already has the best armor in the game and has the controversial spall liner that stops most spall. I dont think the 2a7 needs the armor upgrade that the swedish got
oh boy how much of a crutch do you german mains need? Lepoard 2a7 is already the best tank in the game armor wise stops just about everything from the front
I'm inclined to think that there is some difference in protection between the the various Abrams hulls IRL, though I'm not sure it's DU. This is not based on any hard facts, but the M1, IPM1, and M1A1 all had the same hull data plates (every one I saw read "XM1"; the turret data plate on the A1 read "M1A1"), but the M1A1HA hull data plates read "M1A1". This implies some change to the hull itself for the HA models, even if that change is not DU. Regardless, if Gaijin can't find an excuse to adjust armor on the M1 series, they should adjust the BRs down. As stated in the video, the SEPv2 is a much older tank than other top tiers. Maybe it shouldn't be sitting at top tier. Another thing Gaijin might consider is giving US tanks their DUKEs. The US put CREW systems on everything that rolled to counter remote-detonated IEDs, but they also jam out drones that fly within their radius. It's part of the TUSK package, so any in-game tanks with it should have a denial radius for drones.
The challenger 2 TES had that as well
@williewilson2250 Yeah but they screwed up the ERA/NERA blocks on it (Proctected against 30mm apds vs 30mm kinetic protection)
I’d just take the reload buff. We all know Gaijin hates the Abrams, it’s very obvious BUT the snail has been making up “sekrit documents” for years.
They're the greatest example of *the boy who cried wolf* whenever they reverse obviously acoustic nerfs people have complained about for years 😂 Hence why people are complaining and how they have the momentum to shoot down dev claims *(excuses)* for shit like clay pigeons ❤
also dont forget how they nerfed the xm-1 unhistorically based on a document distorted by an angry russian main
Yall keep yapping my leclerc got no armor and decent reload i dont even vompqain about it i manage to kill 3 to 5 enemy regularly
@@arilavanderboom4990 oof
@@arilavanderboom4990 This is true, us French mains have penetration, reload, speed, acceleration, turret traverse, armor, and stabilizers nerfed
Even if they didn’t place DU in the hull, they still most likely have increased the armor with regular armor packages, since the M1 already had plenty room within the armor section of the hull to increase the armor, it wont be noticeable difference outside. Otherwise the weight difference doesn’t make any sense at all. I don’t believe that 10 Tonns of mass came only from DU on the turret and new gun
There were way more changes than that, the SEP V2s weight is calculated with the TUSK addon package
@@domaxltv and it is still not enough
105 to 120 is a HUGE change. And DU is super heavy. 10 tons from them is very realistic.
@@olisk-jy9rzThe era is 1814kg alone, Plus there like protection, Better systems, Era plating and in SEPV1 mine upgrades etc, it only increased 7 tons from the original, 2 of which is from era, Plus APS, Plus crows, Plus IED systems, PLUS digital map interfaces, PLUS a better engine which is heavier, FLIR, tank-infantry phone, FBCB2 and blue force tracking, crew compartment cooling and more, You say DU ARMOUR DU ARMOUR, U have to be a moron to believe they would put DU armour in a tank so when u get hit u breathe in all those radiation particles and get lung cancer.
And also forgot to add the rheinmetal gun is way heavier by some tons
Something that has been largely missed in all this is that the BRL-2 armor co-developed by US/UK was implemented on M1A2, which SHOULD give up to 550mm protection in the LFP.
according to....?
@@jameshodgson3656 According to deity in my dream
Bs lmao
According to his anus
600mm according to the D.O.D@@jameshodgson3656
There is considerably more nuance to this discussion than this video brings out. I will not claim to have the answer to the armor changes in the Abrams hull if there are any for Sep V2 but there are more sources which could indicate there is than you brought out in this video. While I haven's seen anything definitive Gaijin simply dismissing hull armor changes does seem a bit silly especially when they admit that the Abrams is underperforming compared to other vehicles at its tier. Why not simply add the DU hull armor from one of the 5 examples we know for certain existed? Sure it may not represent the ones being fielded but that same argument can be made for the slew of prototype vehicles we see in-game. I don't see this drama as being caused by the Abrams itself but rather it is players who are sick and tired of seeing the devs seemingly bend the rules and accept questionable sources for some vehicles but for others they need a notarized letter from the factory that made them or else it isn't good enough. Transparency is good on their part but a consistent enforcement of their rules for source material would be much better in my opinion.
damn! wasnt expecting ConeOfArc himself when i hit the "newest comments" button. xD
Woooo, go ConeOfArc lmfao
Still somehow the weight of the Abram tank still increase but no armor its crazy that gaijin think that Abram is a paper weight.
@@billlhooo6485 this is the main reason I don't like gaijins response. The tank has gained weight between the variants so clearly something is causing that increase. Some of it can be explained by add-ons externally and upgrade packages but several tons is not an insignificant amount of weight.
The NRC document is also an incomplete souce, as it was amended a few months later to change the 5 hulls to as needed.
We (as gamers) should really get its turret ring spot REDUCED (which WAS artificially made bigger as a reaction to the Abrams being extremely strong vs the T-64Bs, and Leopard 2Ks which were the only other top tier tanks in game when it was first introduced). *IRL there is no neck extending the turret up, it’s time to fix that (it’s way beyond time LMFAO). I care about that more than the LFP armor (aside from the fact it has a bug that causes the Composite inside the LFP to disappear when hit at an extreme angle and kill the driver).*
dont care
Cope, what the hell are you even complaining about, now RedEffect is right about people doing what they do.. and complain lmao
According to all of the images of the Abrams on Wikipedia - it does have an extended turret neck ring.
You don't seem to be aware you don't need an exposed turret ring to have it damaged. Try playing german panzers, they all have nonexistent turret ring neck and even an additional deflector around the turrett, yet any round that pens in that zone will insta lock the turret turning the turret ring black. Classic example of low skilled or clueless players complaining about things they don't even understand.
Googled M1A2 SEP and the ring is indeed exposed just as is in the game. Same tiny area too but doesn't really matter when your Dart slides right up to it.
If that article was from 2007 and they were starting to add DU then, than in 16--17 years they will have most definitely been added this is a joke.
I don’t even play US, but in the 2nd document, even though it said only 5 hills with DU inserts exist, wouldn’t it be fine to still give them it? I mean, a bunch of trees have vehicles that aren’t production models, either only have 1 prototype, or just plans. (2S38 for example). I’m a Japan main, but I’ll also still use their vehicles as an example. F-16AJ, R2Y2 series, and the Ho-Ri series. They just straight up do not exist irl, and yet they’re still ingame. I really don’t see why this is a big deal
if so they might add the Abrams with the DU on the LFP as a expeirement vehicle not the standard to all Abrams.
The larger issue here is that Gaijin will take some BS source, give it two seconds and make a change immediately to a Russian vehicle. Meanwhile, NATO vehicles are required to provide a resource just short of classified documents, but not classified and even then, those sources are stated as unreliable.
You don’t know that tho, that’s just reddit cope, if gaijin war Russian propaganda why does Russia have the 3rd worst win rate
@@byzantinehoney3384 For ages Russian MBTs straight up did not model spall. It was an on or off value that Gaijin literally had turned off for Russian tanks. This isn't reddit cope, these are verifiable facts.
@@byzantinehoney3384 Russia has, historical, a higher WR than any other nation. Period. Its only recently that Russia's WR has not been #1.
@@byzantinehoney3384 After the new patch, before russia 11.7 was topnotch with 73% winrate. Even youtubers admitted it.
lol, it’s hilarious someone is trying to dispute the OBVIOUS Russian bias in this game and the OBVIOUS cutting the nato (US in particular) short. It’s legit not even possible to debate this, it’s a fact that everyone with a brain knows.
Gaijin when you provide available sources : This is not primary source, please provide something better Gaijin when you provide classified sources : It is classified, we cannot implement it Either way, they have a narrative for this game and will stick to it despite everything provided.
If the source is classified, it would be illegal for them to possess the information. If they actually accept and use such data, then governments will go after them. You really don't want to make the US government your enemy, these aren't good understanding people who will calmly explain to you why you shouldn't use and republish their classified data in a video game. I don't get this criticism.
@@tiikerihaiit's showing that no matter how credible a source is, they won't take it
@@tiikerihai they quite literally ask for classified sources and get mad when people send them
@@tiikerihai That's because their goal isn't to collect classified materials to implement in game. They're collecting it and forwarding it to the Kremlin and then deleting it off their local servers when done. Gaijin is and has always been a Russian company through and through with Russian executives. They only moved their offices to Hungary to get around Western sanctions and licensing restrictions. This whole Abrams debacle screams classified documents fishing on the highest order.
prove me wrong but i remember they add classified APDSFS shell for some chineese top tier tank after leak with photo and documents but actually it's very risky for them
The funny thing about WT players is they cry about the tank "not being on spec" when they never play the tank in its intended doctrine. Like, the DU in hull is not present in most if not all Abrams, since it never was meant to fight with the hull exposed.
While yes i do agree with you on that part the Abram in game "can't" play hull down as the turret ring is a huge weakspot along with the gun manlet
honestly I think a better addition would have been the M1A1 thumper testbed/prototype armed with the XM291 cannon, afterall the 140mm cannons were intended for use and had the cold war gone on its very likely they would have start being filtered down sooner or later, hell france if i recall correctly is still kinda batting around the idea of arming their Leclerc tanks with one even today and it wouldnt be over powered since the turret of the Thumper was onpar with the M1A1/2 (not sure which) while offering much better effect on target and while im not sure we can assume getting declassified info on the 140mm performance or doing FOI requests on it would be easier to get ones hands on then getting the M1A2 sepV3 armor layout from reliable and useable sources
Isn't the FOI only available after 50 or 60 years? Thought it wasn't tested until like the late 80s/early 90s
@@williewilson2250 honestly I have no idea if I recall correctly you can place the request no matter how old something is, I think that the 50/60 year thing is when the files become declassified on their own but I could 100% be wrong even then I think you'd have a better chance getting the US army to declassify info related to the thumper project then the current M1 models
they are looking at 130 mm now that things are getting hotter
You all have it completely wrong, the M1A2 SEP V2 has ENRICHED uranium hull and turret inserts. The radiaton deflects APFSDS rounds, similar to ERA. Trust me, it came to me in a dream.
The crew: 💀
More reliable source than anything Gaijin and their biased developers use.
nah you're thinking about the wrong thing ,think about the guys repairing it and having no shielding against the radiation @@Fred_the_1996
And the loader is a superhero capable of loading the cannon in 0.5 seconds. Using a third hand, of course
My cat also told me this it must be true
The thing is I still highly doubt whether DM 23 is going to go through the lower front plate like it does in game from a kilometer and a half. I also did find a source for the abrams having a spall liner but it never said anything for the U.S. abrams but for the M1A2S and M1A2T. I am really sick of gajin adding really modern tanks, like the sepv2 or really any abrams, these tanks are heavily classified and we as people who aren’t in the military don’t know what the armor of the abrams is and or where it is. Even the only abrams on public display at the museum I volunteer at isn’t even a truly accurate to what kind of believe is the M1A1HA configuration as all the DU and classified armor was removed and instead the prototype turret for the M1A1 was placed on top. The things are heavily classified
rpg29 can pierce the turret cheeks. seen it in iraq
@@mach533xwhat variant of an Abrams, was it a regular M1A1 because if so than yeah, if it was a M1A2 or a HA than probably not, I also think that the account hit the side or rear
@@mach533x their are only 2 reported incidents of that getting used to successfully damage an Abrams and the only one that hit the turret hit the side of the turret and not the cheeks. the other shot hit the lower rear hull of a different tank.
I tried to visit there earlier this year but ran out of time. Just to see the M1-A1 on display. Its very close to the one I served on in 1991. And yes still VERY classified, the armor alone is a nightmare if lost or cracked open. The closest clue i can share with you about Du and its usages, is the high rate of cancers in Abrams crewmen.
@@mach533x You are probably referring to an abrams that got immobilized by an SPG-9 recoilless rifle, and incapacitated by firing M830A1s on the side of the turret, and a hellfire on its turret cheeks during Thunder Run circa 2003.
The NRC document was amended in August 06 in order to remove the language about 5 hulls and changed everything to as needed.
Exactly. RedEffect is ultimately a Vatnik and has always had a huge raging hardon for Soviet/Russian equipment. The original NRC document was edited for publishing and only allowed to admit the known trainer models that were already commonly known to be out in the wild. At 2006, all of the tanks in production would already have been in active service and were standard, modern equipment at the time so the world of the day becomes disinformation. Meanwhile, when someone writes something in Russian on a napkin, Gaijin puts it in game and RedEffect is simping and championing it.
@@Talishar the truth. I'm unsubbing and getting this guy's shit post out of my feed
@@Talishar"vatnik" The guy literally live in a NATO country...
@@TalisharRacist much?
@@karakarakiri9568 And? There are a ton of Russian lovers in the US. Where you live means nothing. The guy's video history overwhelmingly fluffs Russian hardware to a disgusting degree.
The fact that 5 tanks have had du hull armor implemented, should still mean, that it gets added to the abrams in game, seeing as gaijin has prototype tanks in the soviet tech tree, with 1 or 2 models actually being produced and never being fielded in the military.
Yeah Russians making Russian weapons appear superior is nothing new lol.
As per Gaijin not adding M829A3 because they believe it won’t make a difference in top-tier, I believe they were meaning against Relikt ERA from the Rank 8 T-90M and T-80BVM. Those are true top-tier presently. T-72B3M, T-80U, T-80UK, T-90A, T-90S etc., with Kontakt-5, are technically no longer top-tier because they are Rank 7 and not Rank 8. This means their statement holds true, as Relikt performs 50% better than Kontakt-5.
Relikt was also a response to the darts made to defeat K5
They mean, that skill of US team is so low, that nothing will help them, abrams is beautiful in WT
Even if it made no difference, it should be added.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755I agree. It should be added for the SEP V2 at the least. It’ll make it easier to kill the Kontakt-5 Tanks.
@@good_praxice1588I totally agree. They play as though they’re Rank 4 Germany, believe they’re invulnerable with tiny weak spots. The Abrams was designed to be used in hull down positions because the hull armor being its weakness. Hence, due to the weight budget/restrictions, DU was applied only to the cheeks.
"People do what they do, and complain" I love you Red 😂
There is a video of a bradley winning a duel with T90M at close range, hope you will make a video.
Chadley*
1 damaged T90 and you blow your load. You recovered from Bradley square this quickly?
@@pacus123 disabled T-90*, damaged can mean anything like some scratches on the paint
@@pacus123 russia lost over 450 vechiles since the start of Avdiivka offensive, lost it's landing ship, first nation to lose awacs a50 plane. But Ziger copes about 9 damaged bradleys which were recovered for the repairs later. It really sounds you have none good news, do you?)
@@tetispinkman9135russia fights a modern army at least not goat breeders with ak47s
T-80U for example gets thermal ingame while in reality it never had thermals only on a prototype. God forbid gaijub gives a western tank the same treatment.
You know when you unlock thermal in T-80U it becomes T-80UM. Just like T-64B when you unlock ERA it becomes T-64BV or BMP-1 become BMP-1P
The thermals on T-80U were implemente in limited numbers, and as far as I know, its literally directly swappable between the nonthermal and thermals night vision sights
The T-80U when you get the thermals in-game becomes the T-80UM. Not only one T-80UM was made, as it was a mid-90s upgrade. Stop spouting nonsense.
The T80s that have thermals are the T80UM, T80UK and T80BVM All of these are actually modern versions so they do get the thermals. Also, the T80U becomes a t80UM when you get thermals. And the thermals on the t80uk are only first gen so who cares...
@@domaxltv Then gaijin said that only 5 abrams with the DU armor exists so they cannot give it ingame. Double fing standards.
Somewhere, somehow, someone is cracking their knuckles right now waiting to leak their classified documents to prove you wrong 😅
I wish you could cover the situation regarding the Leclerc's armor in the game. It's so weak in it's current implementation that 105mm M735 can penetrate it's UPF. The fact that Gaijin is using a swedish test document showing trails against Leclerc batch 1 (which has worse armor than batch 2 and S1) is very frustrating for us France players. It would be like Gaijin telling us the M1A2's armor is shit based off of a document showing armor tests against XM-1 prototype.
are there french document available on it? and do you happen to have a friend that knows both french and russian? force them to translate it.
Well, the UFP is not really protected by much composites, according to the armour viewer, so it kinda makes sense that just about anything penetrates it, just like the Abrams front plate... I mean, if you have reliable documents about the protection then you can send it to Gaijin, most of them should have around the same protection because, well, they weigh around the same
as a fellow french main we get screwed so hard, where are our LTs with stabs!!!
Don't gaijin hate france
It's even worse. France (just like the US with the Abrams) kept their armor classified for the swedish trial. So, the swedish use the Leopard 2 armor scheme to extrapolate both US and french armor. Which of course was wrong, because both US and France used more modern and compact armor scheme.
91 tons? What? This not only creeps at Maus weight, does this thing come with portable bridge in tow as it will easily break 95% of not rail bridges virtually everywhere...
The only way to find out is to go against a latest and greatest Abrams tank. Nobody outside of a very, very small circle of Top Secret Need to Know group will ever know.
Gaijin seems to have no trouble assuming other top tier tanks have upgraded their armor over the years.
Have you seen the recent video where a Bradley destroys a t90m at close range with the 25mm?
Two Bradleys and two attack drones. The tank remained intact and the crew was alive
Gaijin purposefully under-powers NATO tanks so that frustrated nerds will leak classified documents to Russia to petition buffs for their favorite combat vehicles.
What’s the real issue is, the LFP hull armor when angled its NERA elements disappear or something. Because if it’s at minimum (LFP) 390mm LOS, when angled vs the 3bm60 in game at 60 degs impact angle, it still goes through and shrapnel flies off 60 degrees into the driver’s face… Idec if we get DU inserts because head on that would only protect you at very long range, or against early APFSDS’ that you don’t face in the end game scheme of things. But I’d at least like to be able to angle, peak a corner, have them bounce off like they used to do when the hull at or wasn’t bugged, and come around and blast them in the face. Not have my entire driver get spiked by a shot that magics its way through 390mm - 420mm at 60 degs.
The NERA and composite values are the overall thickness of the materials combined. Really, only the RHA and like 50% of the NERA is useful as kinetic protection (300mm flat, 400mm at 45°) Material matters more than thickness, which is why the ceramics are better at chemical protection and only decent with kinetic rounds
Have fun swallowing sabot through the angled side
was not expecting a red effect video, but lets go
Hi, could you maybe do a Vid like that for the problems with the PUMA?
New video of bradley disabling a t90m !
new video of lancet destroying leopards
@@J2L12L not much of a feat tbh
Meanwhile, the T-90M, devoid of normal armor, and its speed in the game is 60 kilometers, when in reality on the ground it travels 80 kilometers. When the same Abrams can't travel more than 50 kilometers on the ground, and because of the weight and Gushents, we have a reload time of 7.1 seconds when you have 5.0 seconds.
devoid of normal armor? What do you expect, the Russian doctrine is to R&D world leading ERA applique to the tank, and gaijin chose to ignore the M829A3, made to defeat modern russian ERA. Also for speed, really? Gaijin doesn't model road surfaces properly. Neither the M1 or T90 are pushing past 50km/h offroad. Secondly, any tank's top speed on road is achieved slow enough to the point that most warthunder maps have 1/2 roads that would accomodate those top speeds. Lastly, any tank with a spall liner> any tank without in WT, despite the abrams possessing Spall liners in the armor plate IRL.
@@M3RUL3Z M829A3 was made to defeat kontakt-5 ERA not modern Relikt
But blows up the same as red effect shows us 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@haythemsandel8303 "and any future ERA". While you could still assume through classified info that Relikt can defeat A3, it'd be even harder to justify if defeating M829A4. Im fine with keeping Russian protection levels for balance sake. But with how unbalanced top tier is, Gaijin's game is currently both unrealistic and unbalanced. There's a reason it's considered a worthless cesspool filled only by morons and meta slaves.
can you make a video about that T-90 vs Bradley video. A lot to unpack, and it seems like the damage was done by more than just the 25mm on the Bradley. Possibly an FPV drone as well or an ATGM? Either way, it's one of the most drawn out armored vehicle/tank combat videos I've seen come out of Ukraine. As generally first shot wins and that's that, but it looks like either incompetence or damage to the optics lead to the T-90 being unable to take out the Bradley, and without infantry to support it. Also there seemed to be a lot of other combat going on in the video, from what looks like a rocket artillery barrage in the top right corner at one point near the tree line. as well as some mortars or artillery shells dropping in the middle right part of the observed area (possibly called in by the Ukrainians to attempt to hit the tank?), and also what looks like some small arms fire on the left side of the shot as well. Either way, your thoughts would be appreciated and it seems like a video that's right up your alley.
War thunder moment. I once used AA SPG autocannon to attack tank weak points in the War Thunder mobile. In real life autocannon is lethal against tank side armor
Ah yes typical warthunder players, their debates are so complicated that they even use classified documents
So on resume only the soviet can have some stupid amounts of armour that don't even existed our work in real life
Can YOU MAKE Explanation About Latest Bradley Destroying T90M,,
Two Bradleys and two attack drones. The tank remained intact and the crew was alive. Why do you believe a piece of video so easily? You are slaves of propaganda
destruction? as they would say in Germany, in response to the destruction of several tanks (I have about 20 videos) Leopard 2 “the tank is subject to restoration and therefore not destroyed.” and I think the FPV drone that arrived earlier played a bigger role than Bradley (who are burning in packs in Ukraine)
I agree with the concept of adding tanks and aircraft that we don't have accurate sources for and just trying to estimate the armor and performance and best as possible. We've reached a point in war thunder where there's few vehicles left to implement where we know everything about, add them with estimated values then just adjust those values as they become available. No one wants to wait 20 years for the m1a2sepv3 armor package to become publicly available. The main purpose of war thunder is enjoyment, realism should only be considered when it adds to that or at least doesn't reduce it.
There are still a lot of vehicles from early cold war and WW2 that still haven't found their way into the game yet they could add but Gaijin want's to add flashy things that make click bait titles and headlines. Pretty sure the F-16 was added so quickly to the game because its all over the news due to a certain conflict in eastern Europe at the moment.
Only time it really gets annoying is when armchair tankers online start arguing that x tank is actually better than y tank because these War Thunder stats say so
They could easily add tanks like the XM800, XM723, tow/dragon variants of m113, stryker tow variants, m249 vigilante (might have this wrong), the Knight Systems armored gun vehicles, the CATTB, thumper, Sheridan up armored version used in desert storm... and probably a few I am forgetting. Just for the US alone. There's a ton for Britain and France. A few more for Russia. US and Russia both had crewless turret prototypes that were cool. Tons of stuff left to do.
Problem is though, no matter how they implement these vehicles, the community will inevitably be outraged.
@@dominuslogik484 they have to add top tier stuff, lots of the original players (me included) have already researched pretty much everything in game, they could add 50 ww2 vehicles and I'd have the researched in a month.
Can you do a video on the t-90m knocked out by a Bradley. Looks like the vehicle was a Mobility kill. Though the gunner may have been hit when it was hosed down by the 25mm
T90 turret started spinning lmao, that old Bradley design is not outdated yet
Based on the Bradley Act, it is not destroyed individually, but in packs of 5-10 vehicles at once, then we can conclude that it is outdated 🤣 .
I'd like to see a RedEffect video on the recent incident where two Bradleys knocked out a Russian T-90 tank.
Can you please address the bug since the new update where the bushmasters and nato auro cannons like ouma and bradley fire rates are now much slower th6before? Bradley shpuld be 200 and its 150 kr 160
Also another point, if they can add T90M and base it off of previous tank in its line. Why cant they do that for Sep V3. Like that's actually cancer. Abrams turret protection is already pretty good, Gaijn can take their idea of what the Sep V3s armor in the hull would be and upgrade it as they do for Russian MBTs. Its such a clear "I hand hold USSR" Kinda deal its not even funny.
you clearly didnt watch the video
agreed Gaijin is a russian company so there for: russia BEZT in DA WOrLd Armor iz made out of Stalins Mustache Putins Soul and the Sweat of Socialist hard Working comrades.
@@gavinj243 you would be the dense genius to tell me I didn't do something when I did. My point is still valid genius. How about you read what I said again and come at it with a better perspective.
Nobody takes you seriously because you are a tech tree nationalist
They hand hold USSR so much the Leopard 2A7V and STRV 122B+ PLSS dominates Top Tier with ease. Meanwhile France Top Tier has better W/D than US Top Tier.
the win rate has to do with people buying top tier mbt with no experience
thanks gaijin for adding another premium abrams...
then why does no other nation have such bad wr despite also having top tier premiums, sometimes multiple
@@meezo9980 well, the abrams premium is new, so people flocked to it, when the premium leo or t72 were added things were similar in germany and russia to what usa is seeing now
@meezo9980 Also, the US is the most famous of them all
Exactly this. So many people in AIMs and Clickbaits that leave after 1 death. Meanwhile when I explode in my T-90M or Leopard after 2 mins, I switch to another tank and go on my merry way.
@RedEffect, please continue with the tank arena series!!!! T-90M, T-90A, Abrams, T-80BVM, Leopard 2A7, Challenger 2...
The extra added weight argument are the American soldiers themselves.
Nice video, one question, the soldiers that is in the profile picture is related to the metro series?
I like RedEffect's to the point and head-on approach.
So they were wrong about Gaijin only adding spall liners to the T-90M, they were wrong about the Abrams having spall liners, and then they were wrong about DU armour just being commonly accepted knowledge as if the sky were blue. What will they complain about next?
Fetal alchohol syndrome is very common for you people 😂
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755some things with ATGM or missile and probably F-15 missile
@@larryfoulke1596 Germans got spall liners. Undeniable proof of Russian bias. I wish I was joking.
@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 why would people be wrong for pointing out the t90m shouldn't be the only tank to get spall liners? Its a terrible balance decision
The 5 tanks at the school are only there for long term health studies. All M1A2 production tanks have the full DU armor and all M1A1 tanks have been upgraded to the same DU armor package.
Source?
@@IzakSemrdoiiSource: I made it the fuck up
List your source instead of making up shit
@@IzakSemrdoii If you dig far enough through government budget reports you can find that they have been consistently ordering DU for both the turret and hull. Also new thermals are not 10 tons.
@@NatoStorm source?
I’m bout to end my whole army career
First I've heard of Depleted Uranium armor on an Abrams. I was only aware of Chobham composite armor, with Explosive Reactive Armor add on packages such as the TUSK package.
Make a video about the t90m vs the bradley this is the first time theres no russian artillery and such and guess who came out on top 💯
Ah so 15 tons just came out of nowhere.... right
wE CaNt kNOw FoR suRe
Hey red, do you think yugoslavia would make a nice addition to war thunder, while on the topic?
I find it amusing that in the clip you use to show the Abrams doesn't have spall liners, you show the crewman wearing an anti-spall vest which would indicate higher crew survivability as other countries do not use those vests.
The issue isn't If production Abrams tanks had DU or not. Its that gaijin keeps adding versions of tanks that were only ever obscure tests and ads them in as The production vehicles. The T-80U, for exsmple, never had 3rd gen thermals but in game it does because only 1 was tested with it.
I feel "5 tanks with hull armor at training schools" = The us will be using hull armor DU in future produced hulls/units off the line.
www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1619/ML16190A098.pdf They amended the form and did not list a LIMITED amount of hulls or turrets
most likely future models will have them, but as states in the video even the sepv2 dont have du hull yet
@@altacc0604 No, what the video said is we don't have a specific source indicating that sepv2 definitely had DU hulls. So the author of the video doesn't believe any exist. His arguments against the first source is decent. The other source indicated there were 5 tanks that had it, at a training ground (read: testing facility for implementation). His retort was that he didn't believe it was wide spread because unnamed sources who have been in the tanks didn't believe it to be true. Anyone in a tank isn't going to know the exact composition of materials that make up composite armor. Just because a tank commander says it does or doesn't have it means not a whole lot. Composite armor is still very much a classified thing. We do know, per the video, that there definitely was five tanks at one point in time that had DU hulls. The tank crews would be told that they have a composite armor with steel, ceramic and a sandwich of materials that make up the armor. Because it's one thing to give a tanker a chunk of money to get info from them. It's another thing entirely to give an engineer enough money to get info from them. Not that it doesn't happen. But there's a lot more tankers floating around than there are engineers who work on the armor comp.
@@SlavicCelery you does make sense. tank armour is generally heavily classified so its hard to get decent information on them. the crew could very well be told there is no du but they actually couldn't know if that is true. So rn the general public no one knows if the mass deployed abrams have du or not
@@altacc0604 Pretty much. The real beef with WT is the fact there was 5 tanks (per a source) listed with DU hulls. But that's not enough for them. They will do many other prototypes of other tanks. What's stopping them from introducing the DU hulled "prototype"? All that said, going back to the prior point of Tankers not knowing the hull composition - consider a grunt knowing about explosives in depth. It's not in the job description. Knowing that something is RDX or Composition 4 is one thing. It's a whole other ball of wax knowing how to make the stuff. Most explosives aren't even classified. Just because you're blowing up stuff doesn't mean you know exactly the chemical compounds are in use. You should know the general blast effects, but effects are not the building blocks of the creation of the material. Similarly, knowing you got some bomb ass composite armor and knowing what's in it, are very different.
There have been multiple export variants of the m1 abrams and i can only find sources that state that the du turret armor has been removed and replaced with a conventional armor package. It wouldnt make any sense for the US to take the time to remove only the du in the turret when exporting if there was still du in the hull.
Tell me if I'm wrong, I ask around and the best answer i got was. Real spall liners have to be at least 2 cm from the armor, so they are mostly done around Ammo but the liners in the tanks are mostly there for spall mitigation, so the don't prevent Spall they only stop it from bouncing around in the tank.
Giajin spies looking for technical data to provide to Putin and company. The Armor has been present prior Desert Storm and tanks that took damage were covered up so no one could see the layers if they were exposed. Since it took hits from T-72 and survived this proves the Armor was superior. The hulls was never part of a DU armor upgrate, this is why the exterior armor was added along the hull.
bruh getting hit from a iraqi t72 isnt surprising or crazy. if the abrams were t72bs it would have been the same result. the iraqi t72s couldnt even pen their own downgraded export armour array.
Buddy 🤦♂️ even in the Iraqi’s case, they didn’t have the rounds to back up the tanks. They only had 3BM3 and 3BM4 APFSDS rounds, which were outdated for the time. Russia doesn’t export their top end APFSDS rounds
@@thisismyshitpostingaccount5991 How the fuck did they stick 115mm apfsds into 125mm guns? they had 3BM9, 3BM15, and 3BM17 in their stockpiles (all of which were training rounds in the USSR)
@@magnum6763 My bad, I meant 3VBM3 and 3VBM4, which are the penetrators. They're used in the 3BM9/10 and 3BM11 projectiles, respectively. But you're right, they did have up to 3BM17 books.google.ca/books?id=yFu1CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=soviet+apfsds+ammunition+iraq&source=bl&ots=TX8jYUmdDc&sig=lNPsVKmFOIf0H2kYW8bc4-2PbFA&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=soviet%20apfsds%20ammunition%20iraq&f=false
Short answer, no. Long answer, Gaijin has multiple public sources (some of which they specifically mentioned) that confirm the hull armor of Abrams has been improved. Even some Russian sources they used confirm that. Gaijin doesn’t want to add it however and instead say the several tons of increased weight is due to wiring, which isn’t possible. They specifically cherry picked lines from their sources to better fit their agenda. They also said they can’t add it even if they confirmed it has it, unless they have specific armor protection values. Really trying to bait leaked documents.
Iirc there was an upgrade that streamlined wiring not too long ago saving tons of weight so gaijin is wrong.
The additional weight is due to the widespread access to McDonalds for the tankers
Did you see the video at all? He showed how that claim comes from a public source where there is no mention of improved hull armore.
@@sauce1542 yes, a single source in which they cherry picked sentences out of. That’s ONE source from 2006 when the subject wasn’t yet declassified. What about all the other sources he didn’t cover that prove there is in fact increased hull armor in the SEP and SEPv2 that people have brought up?
@@bobh9492thats because they pulled out ALL the wiring and updated it. If you add literal tons of wires to an already existing vehicle without changing it, yeah that doesn't seem right
I'm not watching you regularly, but man, this vid was really well prepared, good one.
This is the first time I've thought they were actually fishing for a leak.
Abrams doesn’t have a discrete spall liner. The spall liner is usually a layer of Kevlar applied to the inside face of the armor plate before it is sealed.
I love how you are making a video on this topic. I would love to see a video about the new MANPAD devblog or the Leopard 2a7v armor.
I agree with him, but I'm surprised the video doesn't have more dislikes.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755maybe beacuse dislikes are hidden and there is no sense in disliking
@@InsertSomenickorsomethingOK No, I can see the dislikes. Because I can see the dislikes, I know for a fact that controversial and emotionally invested topics such as these are typically more proportionally disliked than this, even in the deepest most obscure echo chambers. Thus, I am surprised there are not more dislikes.
Hi, did you will create a discord for your community ?
*sigh *Pulls out classified documents
I'm just ready for them to add omt variants, cattbs, tabs, t14s, all that crazy fun stuff
They will definitely assume a lot in them. Mb only in Armata they will have something realistic bc they can talk to UralVagonZavod
Cant make a vid about the Bradley's smoking your beloved T-90s?
Crew survived, tank can probably be taken back to the rear and repaired once the town is captured
@@speen9430😂😂😂😂 cope more
@@jaxonl7810kzhead.info/sun/dq-vndSbg5SQeXk/bejne.htmlsi=OiB8FGlPVPIJwCmT
@@rogeriofukuma4077indeed that is a taken out t 90 Thanks for proving my point
can you make video about t-90 and t-80 why they tankink in game kinetick ammo
M3 bradleys also have spall liners so they should implement them too
they did, just incorrectly
US DOD about to get another leak in the ship 😂😂
Waiter ! Waiter ! More classified document, please !
I wouldnt think too deeply into it, the added weight for the SEP3 is a difference in crew members
Hey red Could you do a video on the differences of the T-72B and T-90M armor and explain why the t-90m is not basically the t-72b (i'm asking this because people keep on saying the t-90M is a bad tank even though in every FPV video they aim for the places with no RELIKT or the head of the tank not only tanks but every armor vehicle for BOTH sides of the war and i need counter claims lol idk where to find good sources too.)
7:20 you are completely wrong about spall liners on the Abrams
source?
Give soruces or stfu
@@jonyvoleMoscow, is that you? 🤓
@@mamarussellthepie3995 no? Im just asking what sources he has, cos like, saying someone ks wrong and then not telling them why is... yea
@@jonyvole As far as I can tell, There is few types in spall liner world and one of them is integrated hard type spall liners.
So really what players should advocating for is either the addition of M1A2 School Model fitted with DU or a name change from M1A2 SEP V2 to M1A2 School Model (or something similar).
what red affect didnt mention is the license that mentioned only 5 abrams we DU hulls was amended a few years before SEP v2 entered service to remove any limit on the number of hulls
@@anotheralpharius2056Except that either of the amendments brought up don't actually say anything about removing the limit of 5 hulls nor do they mention any SEP V2s getting them. The SEP V2 just never had a DU hull.
@@AceTheMM what do you mean they dont say anything about removing the limit of the 5 hulls, what part of "amended in its entirety to read" do you not understand, being the following page does not include a limit of 5 hulls the limit was removed
So, given the fact that there has been instances where the us army have had to blow up their own tank and they tried firing all the different types of at rounds and the rounds didn't go through the armour at all. This is on the M1 variant and on the M1A1 variant too. And both if not all the tanks have had reports of radioactive readings. So yes, the armour is composed of DU the problem is that very few people know of how much and in what kind of sandwich it's in the combination of. And given gaijin is a Russian company they would love to know that. But the fact is that currently as things stand there is no tank fired tank round in the world that can pen the Abrams tanks. All the current rounds in use all over the world has been tested on the armour. All short of the experimental round's and top secret round's of course. And yes, this is all readily available info. So gaijins problem is mainly the fact that if they are going to implement the right armour rating only atgms can take out the Abrams tanks and that's from top attack mode. Anything frontal direct on the armour is stopped. There was some rumours of the German leopard having a round that allegedly could pen the armour but that's never been publicly confirmed and the rumours are just rumours.
did u watch video?
Can you please do a video talking about Leopard 2A7V in War Thunder, regarding acceleration and protection? 😢