Is Germany’s economic model doomed? | DW Business Beyond
Germany has long been known as Europe’s economic powerhouse. But this year, it’s the world’s worst performing leading economy. Analysts believe that decades of economic success lulled its leaders into a false sense of security. In this episode, we look under the hood of Germany’s economic model and assess whether the country is experiencing a momentary crash or lasting decent.
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#business #germany #industrial
00:00 - 02:18 Introduction
02:19 - 05:15 Germany’s Economic Success Story
05:16 - 07:14 Problem 1: Dwindling Demand
07: 15 - 10:25 Problem: 2: Energy and Industry
10:26 - 11: 42 Problem 3: Consumption
11:43 - 16:05 Problem 4: Investment and Digitalization
16:06 - 18:36 Problem 5: Innovation
18:37 - 21:56 Conclusion
21:57 - 22:23 Credits
Correction: The graphic at 0:38 should say: "-50.6% Foreign direct investment 2021-2022." 2022-2023 is not the correct timeframe.
7:30 Switzerland Domestic consumption in 2021 lay at 62.5 million MWh BASF total energy consumption was 58.8 million MWh in 2021 That is still alot,but all of BASF uses about the same as Switzerland,but they have other factories arround the world.
Lol people buy enough but now a days thanks to leftist saboteurs whenever you buy something there is a huge amount of tax on it 10% euro tax 21 vat special tariffs / environmental taxes etc etc and also on the components. people in Europe can buy 33% less our economies get trashed and Europe levies more and more money to fight wars and stuff we dont even vote for!
@@longtheworld Environmentalist saboteurs will be happy now! but they do not realize that that energy is going to be supplied elsewhere and it is very likely it will be less clean too.
That figure also sounded very high! Nevertheless as you mentioned it`s a huge amount of energy for one large plant@@longtheworld
reupload with fix then, don't keep the video if it has mistakes
Germany’s economy benefited from cheap energy from Russia and vast market in China. Now the energy pipelines have been blown up and the politicians are forcing the companies to decouple. The consequence is not unexpected.
their politicians are detached from this simple reality. unfortunately.
You are correct to a great extent. The consequence are very obvious to most of us outside of Germany
Germany dont need Russia and China, they love dad U.S.A
We all knew , Germany industrial dxe on the day , N$tream was bxmb by the empire..
Yeah, I remember German's leader has been talking about "de-risk" from China all the time, so here you have it, China is also starting to de-risk from west, replacing west made equipment with their home-made, making their own semiconductor chips, etc... I guess Germany can sell your products to US since they told you to stay away from China.
The worst thing is that politicians always want to sugarcoat everything instead of admitting that there are deficits.
The worst thing is politicians report to Washxngton. It is the single highest national security issue , when the country leader need to report to other country.
German here. The main problem in this country is that our country is not allowed to make independent decisions, we are not allowed to engage in free trade, our colonial master (USA) does not let us combine the raw materials of Russia with the know-how of Germany. Another example: The Ukraine War. For the EU, Ukraine is an unacceptable burden and our previous “aid” plus arms deliveries was nothing more than a speculative investment in case Russia loses. Initiated by the USA, we Germans and Europeans had no free choice. Otherwise, Ukraine was mainly a staging ground for pawns (victims) in the geopolitical chess game between the run-down West and the emerging East.
@@ElectronicHouseFlashrussian bot
@@oiv5988 Glowie detected.
@@ElectronicHouseFlash China seems to be your new sugar daddy lol.
I find out truly bizarre that everyone knows getting your gas pipes blown up and losing the cheap Russian gas is responsible for de-industrialization of Germany, but no one is even mentioning it any more. As if it didn't even happen. Truly mind boggling.
plan B, ..... moving forward ✊️ 😑
that cheap gas is paid by European security. Germany would sabotage itself if it keeps buying Russian gas
@@zannierzan9634on the contrary, Russian gas assured European security by bolstering European industry which enabled it to maintain some autonomy from US & Chinese influence. The biggest threat to peace in Europe (and the world) is American imperialism, which is why Europe should try to remain independent from the United States. The only sabotage that has been committed was by the US on Europes energy supply (and therefore its sovereignty)
@FilmingFish Ah yes, economic security above actual territorial security and independence. Talking about priorities. How much influence would China and the US exert on the EU if Paris turned into a big crater from Russian bombs?
@@zannierzan9634 Industry and territory are not mutually exclusive, you need one to maintain the other. I don’t think you read my comment, I mentioned European industry as means of maintaining European sovereignty and independence from the most aggressive country in the world; the United States. The Russians have neither the desire nor the ability to turn Paris into a crater, they can’t even defeat Ukraines army which is much weaker than France’s, and they would have to get through Poland and Germany first (I recommend you look at a map). By contrast if you want to see being bombed into a crater look at the millions of civilians murdered by the US in Iraq/Syria and the tens of thousands they are supporting the murder of in Gaza. The US is the only country today that not only has intent to mass-murder, but has carried it out.
What got Germany to where it is today, is not necessarily what will make it successful in future. The problems with Germany are a huge lag in digitalisation, slow adaptation, poor forecasting, aging population, poor talent attraction and old school management style. The thing is Germany is falling behind in technology, innovation, infrastructure and business model, suffering from mismanagement and yet we (Germans) think thar we are still the best!
how about you guys collaborate with india and follow outsourcing model of Japan. Germany is very much respected in india
Sounds like the USA.
@@Brunel1859 Stay on top? Did you even watch the documentary? Have you paid attention to years of economic data and political policy? I assure you; Germany hasn't been on top for years. Just like in America, BRICS is eating their lunch!
@@Daswars777 USA is global leader is almost all new technologies, Europe is irrelevant there.
You can’t blame Germany tho for approaching digitalisation with caution. As should everybody else. But they don’t have the experiences that we do
i give you a simple example. I recently started with this mid sized company in Germany and it is mind boggling how paper intensive this company is. rooms are still filled with archived documents. almost 70% of my colleagues dont know how to use MS office programs efficiently. they work hard and organized but hopeless how inefficient it is.
世界在快速发展，稍微不努力，骄傲就会被参与者超车，自己怎么被扔到深渊的都不知道。因此很多关节信息和技术需要掌握在自己手里，这一点德国做的非常差，包括欧洲。
I worked for German companies and have not observed this.
This is absolutely not typical for German companies. For the government offices, maybe. But in business I have never experienced something like you mentioned since when I started working in 2001. So I do believe you, but just switch company. Or maybe even just switch the department.
I remember there was a German man called Niklas Luhmann who taught the whole world how to organize a bunch of pieces of paper through a method called Zettelkasten. I would think the German people would have been proud of this.
I mean this inability to change with the time comes as a consequence of the fact that German’s aren’t having kids thus you’re going to see more immigrants being used to prop up the labor force and clinging to the “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” philosophy that insures a never ending flood of paperwork at the Burgeramt.
No emphasis on Nordstream pipelines destroyed by German allies
The German economic miracle was based upon a number of drivers, but the biggest by far was the cheapest energy in the world - Russian Gas. Germany was paying US$ 4/BTU for piped gas when Japan was paying US$ 18/BTU for Australian LNG. That’s it. That’s the big secret. Cheap energy. All of the German successes were energy dependent. That gas has gone.
One very critical point that this documentary misses. BASF needs natural gas not just for energy, but also as an ACTUAL CHEMICAL COMPONENT to make all of its products. Going solar/wind does not directly help. BASF needs cheap natural gas, period. BASF has increased its presence in the US, as the shale gas revolution has made the US a massive and cheap supplier, but BASF can only realize this if it is located in the US to have the natural gas piped in.
That is a small part of the problem with Germany's economy. The main problems are obviously that they no longer have access to cheap gas from Russia which affects many parts of Germany's economy (including what you mentioned), but it also includes China and global trade, which is much more significant. China's economy suffered a lot from the zero Covid policy, and it hasn't really recovered, and that has really hurt Germany's exports to China. Now geopolitics and trade has been turned on its head and Germany is just not in a good position to handle how everything has changed, as the video sort of covered.
When one door is closed another opens. More and more countries build infrastructure to ship liquefied gas and infrastructure for that is growing around the world in not so distant future we might have even cheaper gas . Also green energy production is growing with countries like Uruguay producing 100% , Brasil 70% , UK 46% Portugal 1st Q of this year 72% and so on
Natural gas in chemical processes in BASFs case can be largely replaced with hydrogen
You are correct. Germany should follow the model of Japan. As an American, I have been to Germany many times. The Germans are great people. The capitalist growth model which most advanced nations with have to change. The population is getting older. Like Japan, the culture is much more refined than the USA. The Germans will have a "lifeboat" ethics question as to how many non-Germans they should let into their country. The Japanese do not want non-Japanese people to live in their country. This has stagnated their economy but their culture is still very Japanese. They are getting profits from their Honda and Toyota factories built around the world to help support their local economy. The USA is way more multi-ethnic. Same with the UK.
Lots of problems with Fraking for oil and natural gas, plenty of environmental damage for short-term gains as is done in the US
To be honest, Germany's economy was rising with Russian Gas. Its heavy industry is too much expensive now.
If your economy depends on cheap Russian gas you don’t really have a business model
@@appletree6741just like your partner Zelenksy is constantly on the move.
@@appletree6741 its dependent on political influence from across the Atlantic. Germany is not fully independent
Germany don't too much natural resources, it'll always need natural resources from other countries.
@@appletree6741it is clear that you have a dislike for Russia. However, what you said is nothing more than a bright phrase. Either you play an autarky like North Korea, or you maintain multiple connections, division of labor, optimizing your business. In the latter case, you are always dependent. Now you are just as dependent on the USA as you were dependent on Russia, only more expensive. What have you changed to what? you swapped a partner you just traditionally dislike for a partner who can blow up your property. Is this the business plan?
This sounds like 1970s Great Britain. From the workshop of the world to Workshop of the commonwealth, to workshop of Europe, to just its own workshop, and then the Workshop closed.
The UK is in the top 10 for export countries, it is forecast to overtake Germany by 2038, it has made mistakes but not so many and as big as Germany's, it was Germany and France blocking the UK which forced BREXIT and like Russian energy dependency, reliance on exporting to China and not exercising the nuclear power generation model Germany has shoot itself in both feet and arms, it needs to get it's act together, ditch the greens is the first part!?!
I think the main question to ask Germany is whether Germany is a sovereign economy. And unfortunately my answer is NO. Germany does not have sufficient sovereignty to protect its sovereign right to choose the energy sources for its economy. Germany is shamefully silent about who and how destroyed its gas energy system, once the most efficient in Europe. It was a cheap farce when representatives of the German criminal police arrived at the scene of the Nord Stream 2 accident without even diving equipment. I feel very sorry for the Germans, who are a very capable and technically talented nation. I'm truly sorry.
America rules over all its “allies”. No one stands up to the US but China.
Germany was never over dependent on Russian energy. It was enjoying cheap energy from Russia.
blood money
@@ElijahSmith ... the same blood money the West drained out of Africa, Asia, India etc. That was real blood money. Germany had a choice not to purchase back then. The colonised countries had zero choice. Remember that.
That's the definition of over dependent. If something that was there was taken away and caused so many problems, you have a dependency problem.
Like addicts enjoying cheap hard drug like fentanyl? Not a dependency but an enjoyment.
@@ToudaHell Everyone is dependent on some key elements for their economy, but not everyone is as silly as the German government: following well-known US designs to decouple Germany from Russia. The Americans have always said: the goal is keep Germany down and Russia out. Trouble is, Germany is down and Russia does much better being out (I mean out of the small place called the EU, but in into the over 85% of the world)
One last thing: the tax department in Germany is creating such stress that people are closing their companies in Germany and opening in Estonia, UK, and other countries...
Absolutely, its ruthless to small companies so they flee. How they expect innovation if they choke smaller developing companies in favor of massive corporations.
Did people realize this only now!? I have been complaining about this issue for almost 10 years, but I was merely labeled as a liberal (in the classical sense of the political and economical spectrum), meaning that I was putting the welfare of companies beyond that of people. Unfortunately, they are intertwined. But the German culture is not aligned with liberal views.
Tax and regulations is what EU does best
This so so true. Especially in the first year of a startup, you have to turn in the same tax reports as a multinational even if you might have not made a single €. It's ridiculous and they just deserve companies fleeing.
True
being IT engineer Germany always was seen for me as some huge trade-off. Moving there mean for me that I will definitely feel shortages in profit, as I taxes are high and so does rent/housing costs, in addition I will have to fight with complex language and tons of bureaucracy, I will feel lonely even relocating with my wife and kid, but all social circle will be broken. In another hand the only benefit I see it is some sort of grown society with unique traditions.
I’m an experienced SW engineer too, with multiple talks at prestigious conferences, patents, and a track record of contributions to core open source projects like kernels, compilers, etc. I’ve been in Germany for 6 years now and I’m beginning to regret it. Salaries are depressed overall Germany (that’s one of the tricks Germany export model worked in the past) + taxes are extremely high for salaries in the 90k+ range. Then after the Ukraine war, rent, heating costs, and groceries increased further. Add to that that a lot of Germans are closed minded and there’s racism if you’re not white (like me) where people make you remember constantly it’s not your country - even if you speak good German. Most of my friends who are in the top-talent bracket have left or are already leaving to the US. There’s no hope here for experienced professionals. A lot of immigrants here have similar complaints about the German culture’s non-existent acceptance of anything different. Overall, it’s a losing game.
@@surfing_aroundthis is why i began to hate Germany after hearing all these things via online comments and discussion. I myself experienced their unneeded seriousness and lack of humor or kindness online
u forget that america bombed two nord stream pipelines. that were co-owned by germany and european interests and russia. but they would never mention that.
That statistic about the BASF factory using more power than Switzerland on any given day is incredible.
Its incredible because its also wrong. Switzerland Domestic consumption in 2021 lay at 62.5 million MWh BASF total energy consumption was 58.8 million MWh in 2021 That is still alot,but all of BASF uses about the same as Switzerland, but they have other factories arround the world.
German mantra &famous last words of a dying economy: wir machen das weiter so, weil wir das schon immer so gemacht haben.
Not willing to change. On point.
The missing part that I don't see any movement in is the unbelievable bureaucracy. it was briefly mentioned but the impact is much higher combined with a taxation system that disincentivizes work, innovation, and investments.
I think the problem with the German economy is that they were too successful in the previous "economic order" of the world and as a result, they got too comfortable and complacent. While the world around them was changing, there external orientation was distorted and they are now forced to a shock realization that they have a lot of reactions to make to continue as one of the leading economies in the world. It's still doable if it is strategically and wisely managed. Areas to focus on are 1. Energy 2. Immigration and 3. Digitalization and Innovation.
They are also based on export as their car industry is one of their main export pivots. Now judging by the fact that China's german car brands imports have dropped significantly and that chinese car brands are now attacking the European car market...you can easily draw conclusions.
The sun is setting on the white man.. they better prepare for the loong night ahead while the sun rises in the east!!
I wouldn't digitize everything, technological dictatorship should never come to be, "green pass" anyone?😂
Germany has the Nokia problem , thinking that all is working fine when the world changed already
@@oaanouar very apt analogy!
Spot on. I moved here 5 years ago from a tech heavy city in the US and was baffled at the lack of fiber + cheap reliable connectivity in general in most areas. The underlying infrastructure (among many other things) must change first and foremost. Here in Berlin I have seen progress in key areas identified in this piece but the place is still a long way from becoming a major technology hub. From my time here I do believe in the German peoples' ability to adapt and thrive in spite of hardships - the downturn will last only as long as people allow the systems to remain as they currently are. My 2 cents at least !
our goverment is literally trying to destroy this country since around 20 years now, it's really sad tbh
The Chinese economic model is to steal what technology they can. If they can't steal it they'll import the factories that make it then subsidize its manufacture until they put the original German company out of business. They gutted wide swaths of the American equivalent to the German Rhine-Ruhr valley using this model, don't let them do it to you.
That's Europe as a whole. Spain has the worst fiber and connectivity issues. I went to Mexico and I was surprised they had better fiber and better connectivity than Europe.
EU in general should change their mindset from slow & steady to fast and nimble. otherwise they'll left behind. new era need new mindset.
@@3x157 That's shocking! It's a no brainer that the key to a 21st century economy is digital infrastructure, without it you're stuck in the slow lane. South Korea has 5G everywhere.
DW doesn’t want to say the true reasons: 1. The profit of USSR’s collapse though was mainly harvested by US/UK, still seeped through to European countries. 2. Euro. Germany as one of the biggest member states can control other countries’ monetary policies through ECB. 3. Eastern European labour. Germany was probably the one benefit the most from well trained labour forces from Eastern European countries. 4. Cheap energy. Well, since Germany cannot even call out loudly the names who bombed Nord Stream, we can pretend this has not happened.
Lol. The only ones that profited from Russia's collapse was Putin and the oligarchs.
Germany had already turned off Nordstrom on their own decision. The bombing of an abandoned pipeline hurt no one.
@@speculawyer What he is saying in line 4. "Cheap energy". If you decide not to use it or it got blown up, then the cost for your product increase exponentially.
@@Tabula_Rasa1why don’t you ask why other European countries haven’t been as devastated by lack of cheap Russian gas compared to Germany? Germany got a double whammy because it cut off its nuclear supply too.
@@nicoles9077 German replaced the output of their nuclear reactors within a few weeks by expanding production of renewables and actually saved money in the process by shutting down their reactors early. The operating costs of a existing nuclear reactor is more expensive than the lifetime costs of renewables producing the same amount of electricity. The French are the only European country that produces most of their energy from nuclear power and they are paying more for electricity than Germany is, the EDF lost 18 Billion Euros last year despite being the perfect conditions for nuclear power with a shortage of gas driving up operating costs for conventional power sources. Since the EDF is owned publicly they make up the deficit by giving subsidies to the EDF, so French people are paying less on the electric bill while money is taken out of public spending (funded by their taxes) in order to make up the difference. You should ask yourself why the French are only building 6 new nuclear reactors when they have 56 nuclear reactors that need to be replaced if they're so happy to use nuclear energy. The French need 200 Nuclear Reactors if they want to completely wean themselves off of Fossil Fuels by the way.
Nobody mentioned 30k US army in Germany, who is not a completely independent state, not to mention foreign/energy strategy independence.
Wasn't Germany de-occupied in 1950th ? From what you say it never happened.
It seems you are unfamiliar with basic european diplomacy, the European Union, Nato, and that the topic of this video is not the army, but the economy.
@@koenkeep NATO is not a military block? Are you kidding?
@@rouslankoutchiev6026 you seem to not understand what I wrote.
@@koenkeep You seem to not understand my sarcasm ))
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Well the internet is growing and globalization is evolving as well. People today have greater and greater chances to buy things from other countries. So as a consequence they buy LESS from Germany. The quality of other countries products has grown and is still growing. Germany is no longer the only player "in town"
German's need to put something into their minds that is german economy was power house due to its strong export to other countries.. back in the days most of the German exports were considered the best in quality and innovation in auto, hardware, mechanical goods etc in developing world. Now things have changed. Present the same goods are meeting some heavy competition from japan,china,India and south Korean companies. Resulting in reduced appetite for German counterparts as they were always higher in pricing compared to others. Now with external factors such as oil prices, inflation, competition,instability and low demands are worsening the german economy. This will continue in coming days if the german and eu doesn't change their strategy and policies.
No, I will let tell what is happening the Europeans industrialized to fast. So the birth rate crashed the Germans ran out of babies by the early 2000, now their running out middle aged adults. Now this has happened before in 1840's many young Germans migrated to America because America still has a major "consumer market". In the 1840's America beer companies started popping up, so Anheuser-Busch (they make Budweiser beer), Pabst Blue Ribbon, Coors, and Schlitz Malt Liquor. Where all founded by German immigrants in America from the immigration of 1840's.
@@Madame702 Interesting.
Especially when German companies outsourced their production to China.. they lost even more reputation
Don't forget trump's and bidens protectionist measures discouraging German products. Tax tax and tax for German made goods and subsidies to American.
@@Etendard1708Exactly. The whole point of german products was the higher quality which people wanted but by outsourcing to China which is cheap quality destroyed their reputation
German had budget surplus for years through its export oriented growth model. The surplus could of been used to build, update and connect more with infrastructure and IT. The removal of nuclear energy as controversial as it is , was replaced by more expensive coal and natural gas resulting in higher energy prices and Co2 emissions.
What % of the atmosphere is co2?
@@roddeazevedo They don't because Germany now has no nuclear, and their gas prices are much higher than they projected when they decided to prematurely shut down nuclear power plants. Since they have neither, they are forced to rely heavily upon brown coal
@@roddeazevedo They still do. But if you don't have domestic production to cover your needs, you are at the mercy of the international market, and its prices and availability
That is misleading. Nuclear energy, gas and coal are all very expensive sources of energy compared to renewables. Please look it up. Gas power plants are well suited for on-demand production of energy. They complement the renewables very well that can be unreliable. The contrary is true for nucelar power plants. Turning them on or off takes years. Germany imports energy from other countries at times but also exports it. For example to france, because their nuclear power plants are in such a bad shape. Having a european power market is a good solution for an efficient european power production. Autarcy is expensive and would be a failure of economic policy. Luckily european politicians are too smart to fall for that.
@@roddeazevedo I am not confused. This is about costs. Nuclear poweras as baseload is more expensive than renewables. Insulting me doesn't make your argument valid.
120 days to start a company? 40 days to start a company?🤯🤯🤯 You can incorporate a business in Canada in a few minutes online!
woke country
Should never have given up nuclear power. Common theme around the world. Designing, operating and maintaining nuclear power plants give a country so much technical expertise it’s hard to describe. Nuclear is the only viable power source of you can think a few hundred years out. Don’t let 1950s generation plants cloud your idea of nuclear power.
When it comes to IT, Germany's biggest mistake was to simply rely way too much on software from the US. Instead of betting on open-source and local software, billions and billions are sent to the US (especially to Microsoft). And the funny thing is, we still get to hear Microsoft Germany's CEO saying how the German government is too frugal. However, money sent to Microsoft is just a short-term investment - it makes even more dependent and doesn't do anything to local expertise.
Europe should have grown its on IT giants like US and China did
The per user cost of Windows + Office is minor compared to the overall infrastructure, ERP (like SAP, PeopleSoft, ServiceNow, etc), cloud and custom applications. Over 90% of web servers and cloud infrastructure run on Linux. The single biggest IT personal productivity increase in the past 15 years has been Google's search engine, which may soon be replaced by generative AI. Having worked in IT for multiple Fortune 100 firms, I conclude effective use of IT is far more important than owning IT.
China's Huawei has developed its own IOT operating system Harmony. China also has it's own PC architecture, the Loongson with own chips, and operating system. Unlike Germany China has learn the risks of depending on the USofA.
SUSE is a Linux from Germany.@@hammerfist8763
@@joem0088well, they do because they are forced to. I wouldn't call them very forward-looking in this regard..
I was told by multiple Germans that Germany is sort of "startup feindlich", maybe due to the papers, complicated procedures and long duration of getting official things done, mentioned in this video, hope that will get improved in the near future.
I don't know why you would ever start a company in Germany when there's a hundred other countries that are better for business.
No mention of turning off nuclear power plants… huge part of German problem is self inflicted
Greenpeace is strong wherever but in the US. If shutting down nuclear plants had been dictated by the greens in Europe which are not active at all in the US, than we can go further and state that the Germany's situation is US-inflicted.
@@Intourist.Who listen to greenpeace hahhahaha 😂
Germany should invest more and more on its own IT. All German companies, almost all, have been moving their IT infrastructure to American providers like Amazon, AWS namely, because its more economic, in short term I believe. But being too much dependent on them is a high risk for the future. Remember the chipset senario? This one is 100 times more risky. This is only one area of IT. There are many more to invest, improve, and implement. A revolution is required on that market.
Why would it be too high risk for Germany? We are your allies, not your enemy
@@weird-guy German engineering is good at integration, meshing supplier components into a cohesive whole. Look at a BMW or Mercedes, it's a host of supplier components, like ZF transmission, engine parts, accessories, etc. And the Germans are good at refining things to make them a little bit better over time. The problem is that the Chinese are by far the best in the world at refining things to rapidly make them a LOT better! Plus the Chinese are nearly as good at integration. And the Chinese are excellent at software, which is a direct consequence of their high ability at refining. Germany will still be a major automaker, but they won't be anywhere near the global presence they are today. The German automobile sector will contract to be more like 50 years ago: ruinously expensive, but very well made.
@@DaddyFatSzack there is no permanent friends or enemies in geopolitics, only mutual benefits
@DaddyFatSzack with the chaos that politicians have been making since 2019, I could never ever trust them anymore, and I expect anything from them. Moreover, it is not always about conflict. It is about progression and having in-house tech. Germany makes the best cars, but do other countries stop making their own cars? Same for technology, agriculture, and any kind of production.
@DaddyFatSzack USA is not allied with any nation. They only find benefits. There is no alliance. There is only common interest. The USA is not a safe economic partner, nor is Russia nor China. Any nation must stand for his own, if not attacked by the Usa, in the first place.
"Why should you change a winning team" He's completely right. This arrogance cost us years and still does.
Nope not necessarily. From 10 things you try out, one works, 9 only cost money. So you can compare it with crossing a mine field. Yes the one who leads might will cross it frist. But in 9 of 10 cases he will never make it to the other side finally. So to watch the developments and not instantly jump to every trend can be beneficial, if the company or country is able to master a new development quickly once it is clear what trend sticks.
@@nils9853 That's exactly our problem: We think mistakes are like mines, we have to avoid them at all costs. But eventually we die in the minefield anyway since we don't go any step further
The ELEPHANT in the room that DW rarely mentions is the decision to shut down all of Germany's NUCLEAR plants. They said that Germany NEEDS low energy prices to export, but they can't put 2 and 2 together: Germany needs nuclear, and should stop burning coal to make electricity.
Living in Germany, my paper consumption has increased million times as i receive dumb postmails from everyone. Even to pay TV and radio bills! Why can't Germany link EmailIDs to postal address and send Emails to everyone, this will end dependency on paper suppliers and to cut trees!
When I was in Alemania (Germány) I was baffling knowing the Internet in costa rica was way better than there... Thats crazy....
For a German, responding to an email is a desecration! If they want me to respond, let them send me a proper letter in the post box! :D
Wealth inequality (not income inequality) and stagnant wages are a huge problem for an economy that relies on exporting capital and consumer goods.
Income will never be equal lets face it. The problem with EU is that asia(korea,japan,china) and USA can produce things that are better and cheaper than that of europe. I cant remember the last time a big company emerge from europe. The big brands of europe are LVMH,diageo,BP,Total,Shell,pernod,mercedes,BMW. The few big companies i mentioned are lifestyles and its not a need but a want. Even the oil companies are small compared to chevron and exxon. In asia TSMC leads in chip manufacturing, toyota honda mitsubishi can produce cheaper cars than european cars. Our daily life electronics are IOS, microsoft and google. Phones its just apple , huawei and samsung. Theres a need for innovation in europe or its gonna lack behind so bad. Plus the welfare system and influx of asylum seeekers will affect EU economy.
@@Lucas-wn5wmWhile you cannot name big European manufacturers, that just means you have your blinders on. Largest, non-state owned shipping company? Fincantieri. Largest maritime logistics companies? MSC, Maersk and CMA CGM. Third largest construction machinery producer? Sandvik. Largest pharmaceuticals exporters? It's the big three in the EU and it's not even close. Largest contracts biologics manufacturer? Lonza. The EU makes lots and lots of stuff. It makes buttloads of stuff. It's not sexy, but it is essential. The issue is the Maastricht Treaty and Bundesbank make it so European countries basically have to compete with one arm tied behind their back due to sovereign debt restrictions. Germany has the surplus and credit worthiness that they could go out tomorrow and borrow $600 billion to finance economic regrowth. However, the debt break and Maastrict Treaty restrict them from being able to do that.
@@ryankwan1934 but im also curious about the innovation in the tech space. Right now problem with first world producers is rising of labour cost.
German work culture is pretty closed and you are expected to communicate in German, regardless of the position. Startups aside.
How did they forget to mention closing down all their nuclear power plants?
Because it is irrelevant. The European grid is interconnected and synchronised. And importing nuclear power from France is actually cheaper than our own nuclear power has been. So turning of our nuclear reactors literally did not change anything. The french ones are just putting out some extra power for the time being, till we are 100% green energy.
Dependence on Russia to make products and dependent on China to sell them. Now what could go wrong?
the only thing worse is dependence on the US for defense, now what could go wrong there?
The deteriorating economic relations with both Russia and China are not because of either country, but US lust for hegemony forcing German US puppet politicians to sacrifice German citizens living standards for US benefit. Problem is vassalage to the US.
Who was promoting globalization in the first place ?
@@gumby2241 Z-bot explain to me how depending on US is worse than depending on ruzzia?
But that was better than now relying on them..
I've read some of the comments below, the proposed solutions from those interviewed in the video (more German State or German Federal money, mostly); but, as a long-time resident of France (30 years but born in NYC and raised in Philly) I have to say the problem is much deeper than "money" or a new govm't "program". Germany, like France, is risk-averse; and Silicon Valley teaches that if you have not tried and failed, you have learned nothing. Failure in business, in France and in Germany is dishonorable. In Palo Alto it is a badge of courage, perseverance, and even if the idea is not commercially successful the first time, maybe the second or the the third time... The Germans know this, but they cannot act on it, nor can the French, and it is the reason that ALL or almost ALL good ideas that advance the material benefit of society come from the U.S. of A.
This is not the reason. Germany is being destroyed intentionally. If the EU hadn't supported the foolish Ukraine war and allowed the US to blow up Nordstream, German industry would continue to lead the world in engineering. This is politics not a lack of innovation.
This is correct. And so companies in Europe are discouraged from failing in many ways, for example, a CEO cannot acquire another business loan for a few years after they have gone under with a previous company.
Perseverance
I'm quite surprised that you don't mention the very bad influence of your country, the USA! Would Germany be in this position if your country did not provoke Russia to invade Ukraine so you could force on your 4x more expensive LNG on Germany and Europe?
@@vsr3777 Thank you for the perspective.
I think you're really forgot the problem with appartments for employees. Some companies expect from IT specialiasts to accept 65k€ average (before taxes) in areas where apartment costs making at least 1.5k€ of salary after taxes. There ist a huge speculative component on rental market making heavier for business to find good qualified employees for good price. If you look at salaries and living expensicies in China - you will think twice.
Many here in Germany no longer give money or labor into this system. There are now groups here in the country that have set up regional supplies. We are growing potatoes again like we did 50 years ago, with old machines from the 60s. We keep chickens, geese, sheep, goats, bees, grow fruit and vegetables and trade. This trend continues. More and more people are taking this route.
Ageing population No enough skilled people. No Energy. Its difficult to stand alone and take decisions in Europe. America is controlling. No skills in IT and Digitalisation. Stereotype thinking. Superiority attitude with to others .No harmony in society.
that reminds me Putin sending 1940 year of production tanks to Ukraine...
@@cowublYeah ofcourse we have stereotype thinking, thats normal and saves lives
The root cause is energy. Energy is very very very expensive. 🙏🙏
Solution? Green algae biofuel. ExxonMobil USA to partner with BASF Germany in opening up green algae biofuel production facilities along the sea coastal areas of Germany. ExxonMobil USA will gladly help because there are huge profits to be made in green algae biofuel. 🙏🙏
Good job Einstein! Great discovery…
Do you know that renewable electricity cannot be used alone. There must be at least 40% traditional generated power in the grid before renewables can be admitted.
lol @@ianrichards909
Businesses dependent on cheap natural gas will move.
Not at all!
Without affordable nuclear power, Germany's industrial prospects are grim. However, society must confront the inevitability of nuclear energy as a crucial driver for a productive economy. Another factor is the cost of housing. People are increasingly choosing to save rather than spend, believing that to afford property in the future, they must cut back on other expenses. And there is many many more.
They destroyed themselves
I think Germany needs flexibility. The method that worked 10/20 years ago will not work today or tomorrow. People have to adapt to changes flexibilly and less brochracy.
Not going to happen. Germans are very adverse towards change.
Needs freedom
Germany is ruled by old people who are internet illiterates. They do not want to change. Also everything is delayed by Germany's insane bureaucracy, i.e. it takes up to 10 years to get all the necessary paperwork and permits to build a wind farm. 10 years wait time when there is an energy crisis! It is insane!
what Germany need is democracy and dad u.s
Germany will soon be poor.. haha. Going woke and now you're poor
Germany fundamental problem is they get too complacent whenever they're successful. Germany will stall until they hit crisis mode.
It shut down it's nuclear power stations. It has 61,000 MW of wind generation which is useless.
"Never change a running system" definitely is loved here. Even if that system runs on paper and fax machines.
@@Timo-qb1gfThis is super common. Not just a problem in Germany or Japan. It makes sense when you think about it. These systems cannot go offline for even 1 hour to make an unneeded change. While I was in the US air force all computer systems responsible for keeping radar live were still on windows xp and have not been turned off since the 90s. So America has this to the same extent really.
Good example of the car industry. Completely ignored the rise of EVs for too long.
If there is no satisfactory wages for workers they will buy less. If so internal economy will shrink considerably. It can't be not good for industry growth.
The end of cheap energy combined with their green policies really killed their competitiveness
In other words over-reliance on American interests has killed the German economy.
Germans are stuck in 90' and are too proud to get back to today
💯
Well presented. I agree with most of the pointed facts and would also add aspects like: aging society (less and less youngs), not enough education/training of youngs (lack of skilled workforce), artificially pumped job positions (outcome of bureaucracy and lack of digitalization), FEAR of digitalization (just ask how many people are afraid of things like online banking here). Also many of skilled people are escaping germany, for example because of high taxes that they have to pay to pay off all of the social benefits for the others. The problem is really multi layered
I am also surprised that the reported admitted that one of the economic problems is that the society is... roughly said, greedy. If the German economy is based on production of goods, you have to buy them in order to work.
The Youngs are important
Isn’t that the goal? Otherwise, why do we have low wages and high housing costs all over the world ?
I work for a German Air conditioning manufacturer, watching this video… it all makes sense
The problem of Germany is it's negotiations with russia on a cheap gas for decades. Also in Germany IT sphere is not in priority, companies and government are not moving in to digitalisation. As for Auto producers, they still feel burden on number of factories producing internal combustion engines.
As long as it does not resort to its old "extra-economic" ways of spending its legendary efficiency.
This is a great report ! Well done Maria and team. When Germany sneezes, Europe catches a cold. Here in Czech Republic, the Czech Korunna has been remarkably strong against the Euro. But for how long ... German orders are down, and Czech Republic depends heavily on them. The fact that Europe has no global tech champions won't change any time soon. Perhaps it's the low tax on the uber wealthy in the USA that allows that untaxed wealth to flow into innovation investment in greater sums than is available in Europe
Inflation the hidden tax. What you are saying isn't correct. Tax on companies is different and what makes people like elon musk come here???? You tax people more and they will leave or not come, like California or New York.
Nordstream pipelines
I believe or foresee that India, Russia, China and their allies will rule the world in a decade. Curious to determine how the harmony between these big players can co-exist. If this fails, and end up in an unrest situation.
USA, it will be still strong (but it can blown up the current money system, Bretton woods. Will rule the shatters of western EU), Britain (will rule the shatters of eastern EU, after blowing up system), China, Russia, maybe India.
I don’t think so. China is shrinking at a rapid rate and is dealing with a major housing crisis. I could see India continuing to expand its interests, but it’s most talented workers leave. Russia is dead in the water, old population and a lack of finding capital to do much growth
@@gomerpyle7721I think China still has fire in them. India is emerging market. Russia is in decline since fall of Soviet. EU need to come back
We all say that we need to reduce bureaucracy and move to digitization and the IT sphere. But this is difficult to achieve for political reasons, because the state and local government bureaucracy provides jobs - of course, often not very efficient, but civil servants will still receive their salary 100% from the state budget, because the money is brought by companies that pay taxes. Practically, it turns out that the government of the state and local governments needs to switch to digitalization - reduce staff positions and increase the salary of those who are the best in their field at the expense of the dismissed employees, as a result of which work efficiency would increase.
Regarding bureaucracy it should be explored more in depth why it takes so long and not giving rich people or companies to rule the society only for their own interests. There is a huge problem both in USA and China with pollution, and especially in USA with homelessness, not very far from their shining accomplishment. So they probably didn’t take enough time to consider externalities.
> The United States is the land of the free. Free drug use, single motherhood, crime, guns ----all kinds of social deviancy. The catch is that you will also bear the negative effects of foolish decisions. So the homeless serve the useful social purpose of illustrating foolish behavior you should NOT do.
At least Germany's papa USA is happy with them
7:30 Switzerland Domestic consumption in 2021 lay at 62.5 million MWh BASF total energy consumption was 58.8 million MWh in 2021 That is still alot,but all of BASF uses about the same as Switzerland,but they have other factories arround the world.
What Germans are definitely good at is documentaries. Clear, concise and interesting. Been watching from Czechia and have learned a lot, thanks for the good work! The documentary on the origins of trousers (yes, trousers 🙂 ) was the best one I´ve ever seen.
It's interesting to be so advanced, yet apparently so fragile. However, on the one hand, where the majority of Germany's wealth comes from selling their high-tech to other nations, you only need to monitor the general status of those nations to gauge your production. The issue comes from when those nations don't have control or understanding of their own economies. Either way, all people and nations should have almost total self reliance and only use trade as a means for a greater quality of life.
They are not so advanced. Watch the video again. They are lacking in talent, infrastructure and digitalization. They are less digitally adept than their European counterparts. Their economy has been good up until recently because of cheap energy from Russia and large market for its goods in China and importing cheap goods/supplies from China. But since cheap energy pipelines have been blown up and Europe’s decoupling from China, that has doomed the German economy.
U$A also an autocratic country. U$A is not a democracy it's a corporate autocracy ruled by the big corporates. Global interests are not about good will between people rather about where profits are to be made.
I’m American and I agree but I recommend trying not to pick a fight with US government + corporations + THE AMERICAN PEOPLE especially. You will lose. The anti American hate is rather dull coming from people who are typing in English and practically worship American Consumer products whilst being reliant on the American world order. People need to be self aware.
Times of America and economies are done. Dragon(China) has awakened and has deep friendship with Snake(Russia). Tiger(India) is not far behind. While Eagle(USA, Germany) has soared high for long. It will need to come down to prey. The new stage is set. Let the Games begin.
@@ancient_living China's population is sinking fast and it has no option but for wages to rise over time and so China will become too expensive to make cheap goods which means China needs to make higher value goods but if that fails then it has to pivot to consumer economy but the problem with that is Chinese don't buy enough goods to sustain such an economy. Germany is pretty similar it is in the stage of being a high value economy but will need to switch to a consumer economy yet Germany has also aging population and ever rising costs and yet its population do not buy enough goods to sustain the system. You also praise Russia which is in all level a failed nation, it has no real economy other than military which is of very poor quality. And India is not on China's side and never will be, India is not on the west's side either India always goes it alone so don't count on them being on China's side because they are not. Eventually China will kick India out of BRICS becasue they will prevent any actions taken.
While US government internal squabbling can be dysfunctional and foreign policies overbearing, excessive and deserving of criticisms, equating those to an autocracy is a bit of a stretch, frankly reeked of reflexive anti-Americanism and intellectual laziness. It's to hard to come up with something more substantive so just throw out one of those provocative ethnic hate mongers. In both Germany and America, the people WILLINGLY throw away their electoral powers as a result of corporate influences, thinking small and throwing invectives without thinking critically, deeply, like your statement.
@@Wilhelmofdeseret Eng·lish /ˈiNG(ɡ)liSH/ adjective relating to England or its people or language. noun 1.the language of England, widely used in many varieties throughout the world. 2.the people of England
Here's a scary thought: open up to the UK again. Maybe it was more necessary to actually negotiate and not just be petulant towards them leaving.
Another aspect that was overlooked was the introduction of the Euro. The old D Mark was very strong because of the German abhorrence of debt. A strong currency is an enemy of exports because it makes your goods more expensive vs other countries. When Germany adopted the Euro and joined weak currencies like Italy and Greece , German exports became more competitive .
There is something wrong with the EU. Bureaucrats in Europe are looking for a collective solution to everything, but not the economy and technology. In fact, no one thinks of the European economy as a whole. Europeans still think through the lens of economic nationalism. Politically they are united against fine challenges, but not economically. Namely, this was the idea of a United Europe. Germany will never solve its problems if it thinks in isolation from the rest of Europe. This applies to everyone in Europe.
I strongly agree, I think it’s quite evident that European nations are far too small to be able to address their economic concerns on the world stage all by themselves. We need a solution that is Union wide.
Germany’s bureaucracy is suffocating innovation, and like the rest of Europe it didn’t grow any IT giants (SAP is big but doesn’t compare to google, alibaba, samsung, sony …) so it’s operating on legacy technology
@Brunel1859 You're actually proving the OP's point. Germany is strong in status quo or legacy technology such as BMW and Mercedes gasoline engine vehicles but not so much in cutting edge tech like Tesla electric vehicles. There simply is no German version of Apple, Google, Amazon or Microsoft.
@Brunel1859 BMW and Mercedes make very small numbers of electric vehicles but the Chinese make several million EVs each year. Autos and industrial machines are necessary for modern life, but that doesn't necessarily mean Germany will always be a leading producer. BMW/Mercedes selling EVs for over $100K makes Germany just a small niche producer of overpriced EVs. You do realize that you are messaging on a Google owned site? Life, especially for young people, is increasingly digital. Britain used to be the workshop of the world, leading the Industrial Revolution. But it stuck too long to old industries like shipbuilding and textiles in the 20th century where it had prior success. Every country has to innovate to thrive.
@@Brunel1859 I have yet to meet someone who believes that the future of EV is in Germany rather than US/China or elsewhere in Asia. I don’t see German car brands winning EV though I’ll be happily surprised of they do … i expect a slow decline of German car manufacturing over the next 10-20 years with increasing market shares of Asian brands
@@Brunel1859 cope
War in Ukraine has nothing with this imminent collapse, because Russia was still supplying gas according to contracts. German Economy was blown up along with North Stream pipelines.
12:20 never heard someone use the term app that way. Is he calling "service" an "app"?
In economic there are two certain important points usually forgotten. First, there is not empty places, it means that exists always someone prepared to take your place. Second, there is always a price to pay for taking advantages from someone. Today Germany is not in the first place production advanced technology in several areas than before, and the price they had to pay to get low cost labor manufacturing in China almost we can define as modern slavery but consent by the Chinese government, was to give the technology transference that the Chinese wanted to develop their own products made in China. So the German model of develop economy is over and there is no turning back, is the end of an era. We can say that the German horse is not the bet winner anymore.
Decline by design
so good that you make this point 16:55
Is there the DW Spotify podcast of business beyond ?
Actually BASF is the customer of our company. Why BASF invests China? The reason is obviously. 1.China is BASF's largest overseas market and also the market with the greatest potential for global chemical growth. 2.BASF's new chemical base in China can ensure stable energy supply while reducing costs. 3.The market is always cruel, and the best choice for BASF to survive and live better is to embrace China. Without cheap Russian gas supply, German companies can no longer lose sight of the Chinese market.
Germany missed IT era
Remember when Germany said sanctions where good and wouldn't effect then 😅
Depends 2 much on single box, odd... their economy experts not doing measure.. But think what happen...odd..
I appreciate how inclusive your content is for all investors. No matter the age. the financial situation, or the financial knowledge. everyone can find a piece of information that will help them or provide food for thought. Good job
I see alot of great company leaders, intelligent people in this documentary which really reflect and are really motivated making Germany way more powerfull and innovative than it is, its really nice to hear people like them giving their opinions, it just gives hope for a better way of doing ! Sadly all what you hear at the moment is about emigration policies and each political party saying they are better than the other ones, searching for mistakes that other party has done. That makes the nation blind of what is actually happening and putting towards them a thick fog! A pity, that politics kills so many leading, innovative and ingenious companies in Germany. Great documentary!
I remember in the 80’s concerns about having Russian fuel dependency. I think that was as plans were being proposed. If I remember correctly. They rode the wave quite a while. I was stationed there as a Soldier. I thought Germany was as perfect as a nation can be! I was there twice 86-88 and 2010-2013. I was highly impressed with Germany. I so surprised they are having difficulty. Ihope they catch back up!
I heard 1994-2004 was a a golden time to live in Germany.
Well, what do the US have, what´Germany does not have ? Pensions based on capital investment, which can also flow investments in new companies.
Usa is under chinese loans
UK attack on NordStream2 😮 poor germany 😢
It is mainly due to Germany s subservient policies due to American pressures. For example gas supply shut down by Russia has crippled Europe in general and Germany in particular. high energy cost has increased production costs. China is taking full advantage of this vacuum . Germany had no political effects of ukarian issue but taking sides with America has resulted in energy bans by Russia.
Why are the Europeans sawing off the branch they’re sitting on?
It was always odd, why Germany would rely heavily on China for both end sales and also manufacturing, as China was the fastest growing German's competitor in almost every industry Germany excelled in such as auto, chemical, pharmaceutical, precision manufacturing and soon courier service. I think in almost every industry sector, Chinese learnt all that it could learn from the Germans who went to China to build factories and taught Chinese the industry know-hows.
Spot on
Germany already dominates international courier services.
The irony here is that Germany more or less did exactly the same thing to the UK when it first industrialised in the 19th century Germany learned everything it could from the foremost industrial power at the time (the UK) and once it had learned everything it supplanted them so by the turn of the 20th century German industry had left British industry in the gutter History repeats itself
Germany economy will get smaller, their is a population collapse. When that happened last time was in 1840's. America saw a massive wave of German immigration. Many of the Germans of that day created the companies like "Anheuser-Busch, Coors, Schlitz Malt Liquor, and Pabst Blue Ribbon".
you'd better ask yourself, why german not fully trust US any more after Ukraine war? as long nordstream broken, US still hold the german neck from another side.
Germany couldn't resist the temptation of sticking it to Russia for 1945. Same old bloodthirsty instincts and same old bad judgement.
The 3 years Ausbildung is just a waste of time. Things you can learn in literally 6 months in most fields, take 3 years. That’s a disaster.
The positive thing is that, unlike France, Italy and Spain, Germany has shown an ability to carry out necessary and wise reforms. They can do that again.
When companies predominantly engage in overseas production for the sake of cost efficiency while government simultaneously pause the utilization of the most economical electricity source, namely nuclear power, in the name of climate sustainability. And on the top of everything they inadvertently hinder their ability to access competitively priced Russian natural gas. Such decisions can only lead to economic hardships for local businesses and middle class.
Economic BS: " “What is remarkable about these trends, is that the costs of renewables continue to fall due to incremental manufacturing and installation improvements while nuclear, despite over half a century of industrial experience, continues to see costs rising,” stated the report, citing a recent study from financial advisory and asset management firm Lazard. “Nuclear power is now the most expensive form of generation, except for gas peaking plants,” added the study, which did not provide an LCOE for gas peaker generation."
nuclear power is a scam.
@@peterstockhaus2709 many of the cost is in building the nuclear power plants. These plants were already built.
if they are not moving the production to china, their price will be high, china will produce cheap alternative at low cost and low quality in the beginning, but after many iteration the quality will be on par with german products. so, either way, they'll declined.
That's probably why having sovereignty is so useful... you know, so you can do stuff that benefits your citizens, not someone that has been occupying you since 1945...yeah, the ones fighting for freedom and democracy...
Topic being discussed at 17:00 about starting a company. A fun fact, starting a company in Estonia takes you about max 10 minutes.
13:30 is such an insightful way of thinking of public debt and investment
Two factors: Germany lost its access to cheap energy; German lost tech edge in Chinese market. That’s it.
Well... Its a question about energy costs... If Germany would build thorium reactors Then the production will go up on max again.... The recipe is cheap stabil flow of energy.... Thats it... Best regards a Dane...
No one has a commercial Thorium reactor design.
At least some countries are actively investing and researching it. Meanwhile, Germany is shutting down reactors and burning coal, how "futuristic" it is ...
@@speculawyer lol... You are behind are that argument 😂 Then next gen is going to be built on thorium... You just use a molten salt reactor... China , french , denmark , south korea are at stage 3 in testing...
@@deaffeb on that point its very sad... Germany used to be Best in Tech👍
this is just plain wrong, reasonable energy prices are certainly a prerequisite, but oil and gas are feedstocks into the german chemical industry so without those relatively cheap feedstocks coming from russia, germany is no longer competitive in the petro chemical industries. And don't kid yourselves about competing in software and IT, it's not going to happen.
There are many reasons causing the decline. One of the key reasons for the decline that was not mentioned in this video is "disinformation". When the continent is relentlessly fed by misinformation it is impossible for it to act appropriately. For example, the video claimed that higher energy price was caused by reliance on Russian gas. In reality it was caused by lack of Russian gas. It was caused by the Ukraine war and destruction of the Nords Stream 2. If we carefully study the financial reports of the power companies in Europe we would notice that they were making huge profits in the last couple of years. Most of these companies are controlled by funds from United States. They are not reported in this video. Given this situation how could Europe possibly improves its economy?
Lol… Who would have thought if you put sanctions on your energy supplier and pursued more expensive energy sources to offset the change, the economy would be affected??! Wild..
The guy who blew up nord stream pipeline helped German economy to reach this state...green politics is extremely expensive...
Cheap oil and gas from Russian was the main reason for Germany’s success.
if oil and gas is all it takes, then why are russia so poor?
@@thegreatdane3627 Is Russia poor?
@@superdingo9741 yes
@@thegreatdane3627 In which way? Can I check that?
@@superdingo9741 you could start by looking at russia's gdp per capita, compared to western countries?